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Democrats face party rift as Clinton's hopes fade

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Published Date: 02 June 2008
DEMOCRATIC Party chairman Howard Dean has appealed for unity after a decision this weekend on the disputed states of Florida and Michigan that all but ends Hillary Clinton's election hopes.
Mrs Clinton had hoped that the two states, which she won, would be reinstated to the primary process after being banned for changing their election dates without permission.

The party's rules and byways committee acceded to her request, but gave e
ach of the state delegates only half a vote, ensuring that she was unable to make up ground on front-runner Barack Obama.

Mr Obama has a 174-delegate lead and needs 68 delegates to win the nomination, a figure he is likely to achieve in the next few days as the final primary votes are held.

But the bigger problem for the party top brass is to bring the two sides together in what was a bitter nomination battle.

"We have got to come together and unite our party," said Mr Dean. "Every one of us has the responsibility to help ensure that our party is united."

The issue was contentious from the start. The rules committee suspended both states last year after they changed their primary dates without permission. Florida and Michigan held their elections anyway, delivering hefty majorities for Mrs Clinton. By last weekend her delegate deficit to Mr Obama was such that only with Florida and Michigan in the mix could she hope to stay in the race.

The decision to give only half votes has stalled her attempt, and there is now no possibility of her catching Mr Obama's delegate count.

Her final, slender, hope is that she can convince almost all the estimated 228 party-appointed superdelegates to choose her.

But Mrs Clinton's representatives on Saturday's committee indicated she may appeal against the Florida and Michigan deci- sion. In a statement, Harold Ickes and Tina Flourney said: "We strongly object to the committee's decision to undercut its own rules."

An appeal would be heard by the party's credentials committee, which is due to meet in July. Mrs Clinton could also try to take the issue to the August convention in Denver.

Mr Obama's strategy is to win the election under the present rules this week, making it politically awkward for the result to be reversed.

But while Mr Obama's nomination seems assured, his problem of reconciling the two halves of a badly shaken party is just beginning.

Exit polls from recent primary contests show almost one third of Clinton supporters declaring they will not vote for Obama if he becomes the candidate. This despite the fact that the two candidates have near-identical policies on issues ranging from healthcare to Iraq.

The longer the primary contest dragged on, the more it became an issue of personalities, with the supporters of both candidates increasingly estranged.





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  • Last Updated: 01 June 2008 9:58 PM
  • Source: The Scotsman
  • Location: Edinburgh
 
1

celtic4,

USA 02/06/2008 01:10:58
Hillary won Puerto Rico. I will not vote for Obama because his so called ideas are vague, and he doesn't and will not explain them,plus he waited WAY too long to seperate from his church under the circumstances. No, he isn't a viable prospect for me. And it has nothing to do with his color. I would feel the same about any candidate that held his record.
2

,

02/06/2008 01:23:42
Comment Removed By Administrator
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3

Scullion,

Canada 02/06/2008 01:47:04
In a nation that touts the merits of democracy, America has one of the most tortuous systems of invoking it in the world.
While this race is not without interest, such a lengthy procedure almost guarantees that the media will jump all over any innocent gaffe or aside made by anyone who can be connected to any of the principals no matter how tenuous the connection may be.
4

,

02/06/2008 02:39:59
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5

Carolyn 1,

02/06/2008 02:47:55
Once you understand these numbers, you will understand why the American electorate is so pissed off.

To win the general election, of the 538 electoral college, 270 is needed to win.
-Clinton has won 20 states. They = 308 electoral votes.
She would have won the general election.

Obama's 29 states = 224 electoral votes.
He'd lose the general election by 46.

1. Obama has a lead earned of 138 pledged delegates from the 12 caucus states. These states have an ELECTORAL COLLEGE of 69 in the general election; it was based on 944,000 votes but gave him a whopping 138.

2. Based on 18.4 million votes Clinton has only 158 pledged earned delegates from her wins in the big battleground states- these states in the general election have an Electoral college of 220.


3. In Nebraska, 13,700 voted, (That's thousand not million) Obama earned 8 pledged delegates. Its a red state that will never vote Democrat.

4. In Ohio, a state that whoever wins, wins the presidency, Clinton won that state with a 204,000 vote victory but netted her only 9 pledged delegates.

Yea, the media, the democrats, and Mr. Dean have GIVEN the election to McCain.


6

Stuart 2,

Pennsylvania 02/06/2008 03:26:01
Carolyn 1. Good comment but in a primary the electorial votes do not count. Think you are assuming that she would win the general election by the same numbers.

As for giving away the election think about it. Florida and Michigan party leaders defied the rules so they can have an early vote. Personally I think we should have one day for the primary but won't go into that. Hillary would have benefitted if the rules committee would have let her have her way.

Quite frankly I believe it was her idea for those states to hold an early primary and the state honchoos went along with it. She knew that Obama and the others wouldn't go after those votes and nobody wants anyone to have their ballots not counted. It is exactly the dirty politics that Bill and Hillary are very capable of doing and it is their method of operation.
7

margaret52,

nyc,ny 02/06/2008 03:55:14
Hillary can't win and her supporters can't handle it. Hillary now only wants chaos and division in the party.She doesn't want her party to win if she isn't controlling it.
8

Sally Rhodes,

02/06/2008 03:57:16
#2 WalIy,By The Rivers Of Babylon

I knew about Edwards but does Ron Paul really play for the other team?
9

Carolyn 1,

02/06/2008 04:03:08
#6 Stuart
I realize the electoral doesn't count in primary. I was making a comparison to the high 'value' of caucus states delegates in comparison to low 'value' of battleground states. Obama won by winning the caucus states, but did not win the popular vote.

For example. N. Carolina, which has a high black population and a state Obama won big, was given extra delegates for changing it's primary dates. Think about that too long and you find yourself asking why, what other new rules were put in place for this primary?
10

57Nomad,

california 02/06/2008 04:48:24
If Hillary stays in it to the convention then my money is on Herself. I would take that as a sign that the Clintons have a trick or two still up their sleeves. These people will stop at nothing and if there are any skeletons in Obama's closet the whole world will know about it.
11

Silence of the Yams,

02/06/2008 08:04:03
#10. Fox News have the Michelle tape and from what I hear it's alot more than just "damn whitey". Obama isn't equipped to be president so I hope it destroys him.
12

Number 6,

Germany 02/06/2008 08:46:57
#7 Spot on Margaret. Clinton will know she has no chance, she will have been already informed by the party that the Super-delegates are overwhelmingly for Obamah.Her campaign can try what ever they like now , but just like "Old Man McCain", she will find that her scare-mongering will only appeal to the ignorant and the racist. When will her supporters accept she is nothing but a pathalogical liar, how many timesw must it be exposed.

What is remarkable is how the media are not highlighting the real smoking guns against her, leaving it for the unlikely event she wins the nomination. They have seen that all the attacks on
Obamah are having little effect because, as I say, they only resonate with the ignorant and the racist
element. The average American voter is sick of this , small town level of political dirty tricks that Clinton so excells in.
13

Scott Hansen,

Berkeley, California 02/06/2008 10:00:06
I am amazed that someone from Germany would be so knowledgable about Hillary Clinton's character, what motivates her, and how she operates politically. I find it even more incredible, #12, that you would be privy to what the Democratic Party insiders are factoring into their decision on the matter of which candidate would make the best president and, as well, stand the best chance of actually winning the election that counts (in November).
All of this impressive insight from the other side of the Atlantic ocean, and from someone who, in all probability, supported Gerhard Schroeder's election to Chancellor! (prior to Chancellor Merkel succeeding him). What a great success that tenure was! We should all be aeusserst beeindruckt! Thanks for chiming in.
14

Number 6,

Germany 02/06/2008 10:09:34
No problem Scott. It seems you know nothing about Clinton, so maybe you need us Europeans to keep you in touch. Certainly seems that way on here, what with people claiming Obama has no experience, Clinton is the only one capable of beating the republicans, etc etc etc. Is that what you think ?. As for voting for Schroeder, be serious. That would be nearly as stupid as voting for George of Crawford, TWICE.
15

Scott Hansen,

Berkeley, California 02/06/2008 10:31:01
Gee, that was a clever comeback.
16

Number 6,

Germany 02/06/2008 10:45:41
NO, it just seems clever to someone like you.
17

,

02/06/2008 11:22:25
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18

Number 6,

Germany 02/06/2008 12:07:09
That's right guys, deny and denounce. Even as it is patently obvious that Clinton is defeated, you are unable to accept it, still wittering on about her still having a chance etc etc. Obama , the man with no experience, the racist, the terror appeasor. And I have no clue ?. Hysterical how you have continually dismissed him as a no hoper while he moves further and further ahead of Clinton, even as her advisors and Supers leave her in droves, she is apparently still the one. A remarkable level of denial here, but hey so what, it's not as if you are going to have any effect,.

Obama has the nomination tied up, and you should all be thankful.Finally, can anyone tell me why Rush limbaugh is now calling for people to vote for Hilary?

That's how terrified the republicans are of facing Obama with only "Mr Chips" , assuming he can last the distance, as a weapon.
19

Carolyn 1,

02/06/2008 13:09:24
It ain't over until the fat lady sings, and trust me on this one, women aren't singing.

Women are a wee bit too pissed off to sing with the choir right now.
20

Carolyn 1,

02/06/2008 13:12:35
@18
Who's Mr. Chips??

FWIW, there's a few countries, lets name Holland for one, who are Not anti-American, but ARE getting tired of, yup, you guessed it, the Germans throwing their weight around. Some things never change. German bullying- who'd have thunk it??

German media hearts Obama. Right there, that should be a siren.
21

,

02/06/2008 14:15:24
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22

Ron the Dem,

Scotland 02/06/2008 14:19:55
Has anyone pointed out the obvious to the Democrats in USA.
You are on the point of gaining the Presidency for 2 generations, but only if you get your acts together.
If Hillary becomes President for 2 terms and works closely with Barack for those 8 years he would be a shoe in for a further 8 years.
However, if as I believe USA Politics are personal and NOT party, then neither will give a damm about the other nor will they care about their Party or indeed their Country.

This is the great injustice of the system that was written into the constitution because it only allows those with wealth and power to be elected to anything above small town councillor and the mass of the people are habitually denied chosing the skilled and inovative candidates because to run the race you have to have the GNP of a small country.
The fore-fathers who wrote the constitution, 2 at least were Scots, were trying to ensure no hereditary right would be allowed to rule their Country again. In the main they were British gentlemen who were against Hanoverian dictate and were brave enough to leave Britian and set up a New World Country as perfect as they could in those times.

However if they were setting up that country now I believe there would be changes to some of the rules, especially about serving in a political sphere and how elections are run.But we have to deal with the present and with the rules in place.

Back to now, and as personal ambitions are thwarting party and country the democrats may just find out in the General Election that an old warrior that has served long and well will come from behind and deny the Democrats that victory.

Our National Bard Robert Burns said " the best laid plans o mice and men gang aft agley".
And planning a dynasty can indeed go astray, but It might just work as The Bush Dynasty was ony stopped by Bill Clinton from having 16 to 12 years.
Any bets on Jeb Bush running in 4 years time.

If Barack and Hillary do not wake up soon they co
23

Lynne,

Palm Beach Gardens 02/06/2008 16:00:22
Hillary can SUE the Democratic Committe for TAKING AWAY votes that she ACTUALLY WON and giving them to Obama, as part of the compromise. She can tie this up until the convention. I would not put it passed her to do this. This is why I became an Independent.
24

Sandi,

San Diego 02/06/2008 17:41:14
And if Obama actually becomes the nominee, then I'll be changing to independent myself.

What happened at the Rules and Bylaws Committee meeting on Saturday was a joke, but not at all funny. The committee broke several Party rules in their tweaking of the Michigan vote to give Obama delegates he did not earn, and even worse to take 4 delegates away from Hillary Clinton. It was clear from the beginning that the fix was in, it didn't matter how much logic, common sense and compliance with the rules the Clinton camp showed, the goal was to make Obama the nominee. Harold Ickes was fantastic!

I hope Hillary takes this to the Convention. She has more popular votes and is perfectly entitled to have her name put in nomination. Don't forget that the superdelegates can change their minds about who to support right up to the minute they cast their vote at the Convention. The "magic number" is for pledged delegates, the kind won in primaries or caucuses. Neither candidate will have enough of them to claim victory. Obama can declare himself the Sun King if he wants, but it means nothing.

On to Denver.
25

57Nomad,

california 02/06/2008 19:52:50
#18 #6

#6 said:

"That's how terrified the republicans are of facing Obama with only "Mr Chips" , assuming he can last the distance, as a weapon."

You make interesting comments. But they are interesting because they illustrate the vast chasm between what Euro's like yourself think Americans think and what they really think.

I have no idea where you got the idea that Republicans are 'terrified' of running against Obama. Obama has zero chance of winning the general election, zero. Republicans never dreamed such a catastrophe would befall the Dems and certainly never dreamed that the Dems would do it to themselves.

FYI #6, Obama will carry ten states if he's lucky. If he is unlucky, and you can bet he's going to start getting unlucky the instant he beats Herself for the nomination, he will lose every state.






26

Carolyn 1,

02/06/2008 20:00:50
What did I miss in comment # 21??


27

mike - across the pond,

scullion.... 02/06/2008 21:14:50
you slept thru your government class didnt you....

wakey wakey scullion I know you are on the internet now but get your hands off snakey!!!! and PAY ATTENTION FOR A MINUTE, WILL YA??

Democracy is a "big umbrella" form of government
the US is a REPUBLIC... which is a FORM of democracy
just like your canadian government...
and the UK
and OZ
and Japan
and Germany
and France...

none are quite the same....

none are strictly democracies....

you see the problem is a true democracy breaks down when the population goes over a few thousand....

ok you can go back to surfing those "other" sites now...

AND AT LEAST GO WASH YOUR HANDS!!!!!
28

mike - across the pond,

Sandi.... 02/06/2008 21:26:24
before I start... I'm not a BO supporter... just a fascinateed watcher of the DNC blowing itself up...

you remember Rodney King?

you remember OJ?

you remember Chicago in '68?

there will be a LARGE problem if the DNC decides to go with Hillary over BO...

there WILL be riots in August in Denver if BO gets "robbed"...

the funny thing is... in 2000 the DNC went on and on and on about how AlBore got the most votes... (even though THAT is not how the game is won)... now Hillary has the most votes (I think SHE has a bigger margin than alBore had on about 25% of the total votes in the 2000 election)
29

Number 6,

Germany 03/06/2008 07:35:22
#57Nomad. Do you not think that McCain's relationship, and support for Bush's war, will not cost him the election. I assume you are aware that McCain would not allow the media into his latest fund-raiser because Bush was speaking on his behalf. Is this war not overwhelmingly unpopular in the states, especially
the cost. Finally , I think the humiliation of watching Middle east sheiks, coming to the rescue of New Orleans, while refusing to channel aid through the whitehouse, because as he said "I know how corruption works", will also have a huge effect on the outcome .

I can't imagine for a moment, that the majority of Americans would want to vote for Bush 2.
30

Number 6,

Germany 03/06/2008 09:13:11
Carolyn 1, I was not aware the Dutch were complaining about the Germans. Somehow, the Germans have managed to keep this Dutch uprising out of the European Press.

Would you mind telling me your source , so I can have
them arrested and shot. As for Obama's popularity , yes
he is very popular in Germany, unlike Clinton. As for Mr Chips, MOST europeans find it astonishing he is even running, considering his association with Bush.
31

Carolyn 1,

03/06/2008 13:01:26
@30 Number 6
Would you mind telling me your source , so I can have
them arrested and shot" ..

(Ouch. No wonder the Dutch are chafing under the bridle.)
Arresting and shooting that many people would involve mass murder. I wasn't aware that the EU allowed weapons such as that. Are you Swiss?


Anti-Americanism has waned. For the most part it's an exclusively urban and elite phenomenon.

Everyday Europeans away from the cities are more concerned about Arab immigrants and German bullying in the EU.
Perhaps they realize they have less privacy than Americans- cameras on the highways for example is a EU Big Brotherism, not American.

Holland is tired of the Germans trying to shove the Lisbon Treaty down their throats.

That's just a couple examples. Want more?
32

Carolyn 1,

03/06/2008 13:03:14
written by an American journalist
"At Bastogne today, I heard a fiery pro-American rant from a Dutchman, contrasting not just the WWII treatment of his country by the United States versus that from Germany, but the present-day treatment as well from haughty powerful EU members like Germany"

33

Carolyn 1,

03/06/2008 13:13:37
@30 the Mass-murderer #6

Another disagreement that is newsworthy is the
Anti-trust investigations into German electricity...
The UK, Sweden and Holland want to 'unbundle' the electric and gas. Germany and France don't want to comply.
The good news is that since the Eu doesn't believe in the death penalty and capital punishment your sentence conviction for murdering all those people will be long but not deadly.

34

thatscottìshwoman,

20/12/2008 01:11:25
Right on

 

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