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Curran defends public sector pay curbs

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Published Date: 17 July 2008
THE Labour candidate in the Glasgow East by-election last night came under pressure over her defence of the UK government's call for below-inflation pay rises despite soaring food and fuel bills.
Margaret Curran also crossed swords with SNP rival John Mason when he questioned her claim that she had lived in the East End "all my life", despite living in Glasgow's more affluent southside for about 20 years.

But Ms Curran, in a defiant perfor
mance at the first hustings of the campaign, faced down her critics in the audience and said that unlike Mr Mason she would not "pass the buck" but had the "courage to take the rap".

Ms Curran was isolated in backing the argument of Gordon Brown, the Prime Minister, and Alistair Darling, the Chancellor, that public sector pay rises were a contributory factor in inflation. Her comments came as about half a million teachers, council workers and other local authority employees began a 48-hour strike in England, Wales and Northern Ireland over a 2.45 per cent offer, at a time inflation reached an 11-year high of 3.8 per cent.

Ms Curran said: "I know it's hard for people. I would want to be able to say to people, we can raise rates of pay for people who are pressurised. I just don't think it's as straightforward as that."

After being greeted with several jeers, Ms Curran added: "If the buck stops with me, I will take the rap."

Responding to a question about capping public sector rises around 2 per cent, she said: "I think you negotiate between government and trade unions. You have to make sure you don't lead to spiralling inflation."

Earlier, in her opening remarks, Ms Curran said she always tried to be honest with people, only for Mr Mason to interject: "Except (about] where you live."

She quickly fired back: "That is not fair. Behave yourself, John."

Last week Ms Curran said: "I have lived in the East End all my life." However it later emerged that, although she was born and brought up in the area and had worked there, she had lived in Newlands, Shawlands and Pollokshields – all in south Glasgow – for about the last 20 years.

Yesterday's campaigning also saw Alex Salmond, the First Minister, tell The Scotsman that the SNP was "neck and neck" with Labour and ready to defy predictions with a shock victory next week.

He said the tide was turning against Labour, despite a weekend ICM opinion poll in the constituency putting the SNP on 33 per cent to Labour's 47 per cent, and the decision of bookmakers last night to retain Ms Curran as the favourite. Ladbrokes has her as odds-on favourite at 4/9, with Mr Mason at 13/8.

Mr Salmond said: "Right now it's neck and neck. I think we are closing and we are going to be ahead on polling day."

First Minister 'avoiding embarrassing questions over travel'

ALEX Salmond has been accused of refusing to answer potentially embarrassing parliamentary questions to avoid damaging his party's chances in Glasgow East.

The claim, by the Labour MSP Lord George Foulkes, comes after the Scottish Government appeared to ignore five questions on how Mr Salmond conducts his business.

The questions centred on how many times Mr Salmond travelled by air and what his departure and destination points were.

Lord Foulkes also asked about who he took with him and how much the air travel cost.

He also wanted to know how many trips between Holyrood and Bute House, the First Minister's official residence, Mr Salmond made by car, as well as use of the car for official business in London.

Lord Foulkes claimed he was trying to get enough information together to calculate the First Minister's carbon footprint.

One of the questions was due for an answer on 26 June, the other three should have been answered on 17 June. Ministers have 20 working days to provide an answer to a question or provide a holding answer, but Lord Foulkes did not even receive a holding answer.

He said: "This strikes me as a cynical ploy to avoid a bad-news day before the by-election."

However, a spokesman for Mr Salmond said the issue was the latest example of "a long line of vexatious and irrelevant questions" from Lord Foulkes.

He added that the cost of ministerial air travel dropped in 2007-8 by £6,313.73, compared to the figures published for 2006-7 under the previous Labour/Liberal Democrat Scottish Executive.

Top Tory reveals party 'realistic' about result

A SHADOW cabinet member yesterday announced in the Commons that the Conservative Party does not expect to win the Glasgow East by-election.

Philip Hammond, the party's Treasury spokesman, told MPs the Tories were "realistic".

During a debate on fuel duty, Mr Hammond said the government had only scrapped a planned 2p rise because of next week's by-election.

Stephen Ladyman, a former Labour minister, intervened to ask: "Can you honestly tell the House that you didn't think of the by-election when you put down the resolution?"

Mr Hammond replied: "I'm sorry to have to disappoint you, but Glasgow East is not actually top of the Conservative Party's hit-list."







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1

AM2,

Scotland,UK 16/07/2008 23:19:43
J’accuse, Mr Salmond! Of bluster, empty bravado and windbaggery.

These two statements are incompatible:

• “We are two-thirds of the way up that mountain.”
• “Right now it’s neck and neck.”

The “two-thirds” claim was based on the ICM poll, which put Labour on 47% and the SNP on 33%. That would be a 15% swing since the 2005 election.

The SNP then issued a press release misleadingly claiming that the 15% swing (being two-thirds of the 22% required to win the seat) had all occurred “in the first week of the by-election campaign”. Absolute nonsense.

In regurgitating the “two-thirds” spin, Salmond is tacitly accepting the poll’s findings. But despite his agreement that Labour is 14% ahead, he couldn’t resist exaggerating that they are “neck and neck”. A logical contradiction!

You’re slipping, Alex. Overdue a long holiday? Would four years be enough?!
2

AM2,

Scotland,UK 16/07/2008 23:47:15
Here’s one for the anoraks. That’s the second time this month that a senior SNP politician has made a blatantly false statement involving the number “two-thirds”.

Speaking of the recent YouGov/Telegraph poll, Nicola Sturgeon claimed that: “The poll shows that two-thirds of Scots want Scotland to become an independent member of the European Union”.

That was completely and very obviously untrue. Here are the actual results.
http://yougov.com/uk/archives/pdf/tables%202008%2007%2010%20scotfull.pdf
3

Am Balach,

Isle of Skye 17/07/2008 00:06:02
AM2

I'm trying to imagine something worse than accidentally getting involved in a conversation with you in a pub.
4

Coileach an taobh Tuath,

17/07/2008 00:06:26

AM2

It's really hurting you isn't it AM2
5

,

17/07/2008 00:07:21
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Am Balach,

Isle of Skye 17/07/2008 00:09:25
AM2 and Calum Gilhooly are probably best pals.
7

Conan the Librarian™,

17/07/2008 00:12:14
"I know it's hard for people. I would want to be able to say to people, we can raise rates of pay for people who are pressurised. I just don't think it's as straightforward as that."

Unless you are an elected representative of the people that is.
Then you get the rise.



2
"That is not fair. Behave yourself, John."

In what way is that not fair?
8

ThomasP,

17/07/2008 00:13:16
The Labour Party must be desperate.

Lord Foulkes attempting to be told information to help them work out how much carbon emissions Salmond creates through travelling...

Is this the best Labour can come up with?

Despite being in power for 11 years they have nothing to reflect on and this is the best they can do...

9

Nevsky,

Moscow 17/07/2008 00:13:30
6...
very funny and sadly accurate...

am2...i think Alex Salmond has more of an idea what is happening in Glasgow than you don't you thunk?
10

,

17/07/2008 00:27:14
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11

,

17/07/2008 00:29:25
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12

Nevsky,

Moscow 17/07/2008 00:32:50
Yes not one mention from AM2 of record growth in umemployment down south, cynical ploy to capitalise on the Catholic vote, Mags little half-truths, £14 wasted by the government, £3 million government web sites, Labour Party in Scotland without a leader and more unpopular than anytime in history, U-turn on fuel tax, massive public sector strikes!

He really needs a reality check and not an ICM weekend poll to base all his faith in!
13

Nevsky,

Moscow 17/07/2008 00:33:29
£14 billion
14

,

17/07/2008 00:35:22
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,

17/07/2008 00:38:50
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,

17/07/2008 01:00:14
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17

Senga Jean,

17/07/2008 01:13:11
AM2 I always thought that 66% was near enough two thirds but then I am just a thick Jock unlike you.
18

Press Complaints Commissioner,

17/07/2008 01:21:54
12 and 13

Blogger Off....You unlicensed Pirate Bloggers!
19

,

17/07/2008 01:23:55
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20

Press Complaints Commissioner,

17/07/2008 01:24:31
er...11 and 12

I don't get it right all of the time you know.
21

KampungHighlander,

Jakarta 17/07/2008 01:37:30
It is good to see Margaret Curran is concerned about not needlessly spending public money.

Lets hope that she does a better Job than David Marshal who formerly held the seat.

His spending in 2006/2007 was:

Additional Costs Allowance £21,330

Incidental Expenses Provision £17,013

Staffing Allowance £75,245

Members' Travel £10,806

Members' Staff Travel £2,520

Centrally Purchased Stationery £529

Stationery: Associated Postage Costs £1,445

Centrally Provided Computer Equipment £765

Total £129,653

For this we got:

Someone who spoke in debates 13 times

Served on 1 committee

And only turned up to vote 55% of the time.

Check it out on www.theyworkforyou.com
22

Matt there,

somewhere 17/07/2008 02:06:07
"I know it's hard for people..."
No, you, don't, Margaret.

You are a wealthy Champagne Socialist. And far removed from the reality of "the people".

Don't patronise us.
23

Iainbroch,

Moray 17/07/2008 02:37:05
I feel your pain! I can empathise with you! Aye Liebaaah at its finest!

I wonder can you sack a Liebaah MP for being fat in reality and metaphorically?

Oh sorry stupid me! its no fat its all the money pouches stuffed full!
24

Murray in Canada,

Salt Spring Island 17/07/2008 03:27:00
As for Faux Foulkes' questions, what's stopping Mr Salmond answering them?
I agree FF is being silly here, but even a silly question may [may] have a serious reason behind it. Even so, I really wish the SNP didn't leave themselves open to such criticism, however stupidly caused.
25

LEAL,

17/07/2008 06:01:00
At least Lord Foulkes career will come to an end at the next election.
26

bully wee alba,

Edinburgh 17/07/2008 07:07:49
#1

Only 37 minutes of a start last night?

Slipping up old boy, do try harder!

You don’t want to lose any credibility, do you?

Har de har de har.
27

The Tin Man,

17/07/2008 07:09:59
i thought that the scot exec had offered public-sector workers exactly rg same below-inflation pay rise as per the rest of the UK? So no arguments on that front.

Anyway.... let the smiting continue!
28

,

17/07/2008 07:15:23
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29

MoClana,

17/07/2008 07:42:19
How the hell did an article titled ' Curran defends public sector pay cuts' end up 15% about Currans continued confusion and 85% rubbishing the SNP???

The Scotsmans articles are so partisan and misleading that it almosst renders itself defunct of journalism or real reporting.

Oh well its seems to help the indepedence cause, maybe some of the muppet editors might start treating its readers with some respect and actually write a balanced article.
30

Citylocal Fife,

Fife News : 17/07/2008 07:50:22
"After being greeted with several jeers, Ms Curran added: *If* the buck stops with me, I will take the rap."

I note the use of the word *If* by Ms Curran. How convenient....

*If* things go well then she will take the credit. *If* they don't then it is not her fault, nor is it New Labours'. So which party is responsible for the 'Curran't' mess in Glasgow east, which all of a sudden has appeared on Ms Currans' radar. Why has it suddenly just been noticed. I just hope that the electorate come to their senses by ejecting New Labour.

Hopefully this will be the final nail in the coffin of Gordon Brown, giving Scotland and the rest of the UK a fighting chance.
31

bully wee alba,

Edinburgh 17/07/2008 07:51:11
The Labour candidate is very prescient in her comment:-
After being greeted with several jeers, Ms Curran added: "If the buck stops with me, I will take the rap."

She got it in one!

The buck stops with the Labour Party, and in one week today, they will take the rap!

Goodbye!
32

bully wee alba,

Edinburgh 17/07/2008 07:52:00
#35

Snap!

33

,

17/07/2008 08:03:06
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,

17/07/2008 08:14:20
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35

Logician,

17/07/2008 08:15:01
Oh dear, AM 2 has lost his cool.

It is possible to be "two thirds of the way up the mountain" and be "neck and neck" with ones opponent. Yes, it is.

It is not possible to live in Glasgow East all your life and live in Newlands for twenty years.

No, it ain't.
36

LEAL,

17/07/2008 08:20:18
AM2 and his fellow Londonists are a bit eccentric.They still believe Scotland should be governed from London,England.
37

Jimmy the Pie,

17/07/2008 08:22:28
I think Lard Foolkes has a cheek trying to work out anyone's carbon footprint.

His carbon footprint must be horrific if you consider the amount of methane released when his vast piles of dung break down.

Sad corrupt man, that no one takes seriously.

38

,

17/07/2008 08:22:33
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39

tog,

Edinburgh 17/07/2008 08:34:42
Obviously a win for John Mason would damage Brown and be of great benefit to the SNP but what benefit would it bring to the people of Glasgow East? Must admit I would certainly vote for Curran who whatever faults she has seem like someone who get things done.
40

Rev. S. Campbell,

Bath 17/07/2008 08:44:19
#23 Don't forget his actual salary on top of that. Mr Marshall cost us near enough £200,000 last year for his minimal contribution.
41

Rev. S. Campbell,

Bath 17/07/2008 08:46:12
#46 Mrs Curran will get nothing done in Westminster, because she'll be subject to the Labour whip and will have to do what she's told just like all the others.
42

Rev. S. Campbell,

Bath 17/07/2008 08:51:24
#1 "These two statements are incompatible:

• “We are two-thirds of the way up that mountain.”
• “Right now it’s neck and neck.”"

Aw, bless your simple little mind. Let me explain it for you in short words you might understand. Two people (Mr Mason and Ms Curran) are racing to the top of a mountain. At the summit is a prize, the seat of Glasgow East. Neither has yet reached that summit. So it's perfectly possible for them to be neck and neck two-thirds of the way up.
43

gus1940,

Edinburgh 17/07/2008 08:52:52
Does The Editor of the political tract masquerading as a newspaper called The Scotsman actually believe that the deranged verbal diaorrhea uttered by Foulkes is treated with anything other than contempt by anybody with an IQ greater than 50?

Since his arrival at Holyrood he has become one of the SNP's greatest assets - long may he continue to vomit his ridiculous musings over the perverted and corrupt Scottish Media.

44

Stepford Nat,

A used car lot, Baillieston 17/07/2008 08:58:58
Anyone want to buy a second hand car? It's a handy way of funding the by election

www.snp.org.uk - we're honest, of course we are, no really, we are..
45

Number 6,

Germany 17/07/2008 09:00:07
Why is this dreadful woman still in the race ?. The lies told in her election propaganda about the 93 year old war hero who turns out to be a Labour Lackey who was FOUR when the war ended, show that Lieabour will say or do anything to get in power.

The lack of coverage in the Scottish media of this, is shameful, especially as it is all over the net, pictures included.
46

Teamdroid,

17/07/2008 09:00:14
Ross Lydall's by-election diary from yesterday included a revealing quote. When donning a hard hat for a photo-op, Curran said "see what I do for the Labour party". Not, "see what I do for the people of Glasgow East", not even "see what I do for votes", but "see what I do for the Labour party". Particularly revealing for being essentially an off-the-record remark. It shows clearly where the typical Labour candidates priorities lie: party first, voters (at best) second.

It's the same mindset which had our first First Minister, "Saint" Donald Dewar, in taking his oath of office, swear loyalty first to Queen, then to Labour, then to Scotland. And it's precisely the mindset which needs to be knocked out of Labour.
47

La5t_minit,

17/07/2008 09:05:34
So can someone explain why the government can tell the working people of the country they cant have a pay rise but they vote for their own and always get it?.

48

Mr. Lachie Todd,

Edinburgh 17/07/2008 09:10:24
After being decimated in 1997, the Tories have had no other option but to be pragmatic about their electioneering prospects in Scotland?

The indigenous Tories still only have one Westminster
MP and if it were not for the P.R. voting system at the Scottish Parliament, which that political party implacably opposed, it would have almost NO representation North of the Border!

The indigenous Tory Party has had 10 years in which to turn around its fortunes but in election after election the mass of the Scots Electorate still treat it like a political pariah.

What is the point of a Scots Tory Party in the 21st Century.

49

La5t_minit,

17/07/2008 09:13:06
#9

"i think Alex Salmond has more of an idea what is happening in Glasgow than you don't you thunk?"

He's a politician..... and like all politicians their left hands dont know their right is fiddling the books to make them as much as possible for doing as little as possible.

So how can any of them know whats going on anywhere apart from in their own little worlds?.

50

observer9,

17/07/2008 09:17:29
Pay curbs eh! READ THIS

If Ms Curran is returned, she will earn the amounts detailed below. Please note these figures do not include travel allowances or overnight expenses allowances. MP's salary: £61,820 MSPs salary: £18,030 (entitled to one third of an MSPs salary as a dual member) Maximum claimable MPs expenses: £160,000 MSPs member support allowance: £60,700 Edinburgh Support Allowance: £11,400 This will leave her with a total unchecked income of £311,950 Average income in the east end is £15,700.

As I am not Raj Persaud these figures and my thanks for them go to Oskar Matzerath.
51

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17/07/2008 09:19:43
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17/07/2008 09:22:29
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17/07/2008 09:23:30
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54

Miss H,

17/07/2008 09:24:17
The correct opening line to this article should have read THE Labour candidate in the Glasgow East by-election last night walked out of the PCS hustings after half an hour of coming under pressure over her defence of the UK government's call for below-inflation pay rises despite soaring food and fuel bills.

That is what happened. She left the hustings early. John Mason stayed till the end.

Why does the Scotsman not report that?

Silly question.

58 If she is elected (which she won't be) her personal income should be about £80,000. The allowances are not paid to members individually. Unless she employed her family and used her house as an office of course ......

55

Miss H,

17/07/2008 09:25:31
59 I actually think that was a genuine mistake, they just used the wrong picture. it's a very accident prone campaign!
56

Alan B,

17/07/2008 09:29:22
AM2 you say you are not politically aligned. But an article comes out that could draw negative critisms of labours candidate and you immediately ignore the topic and post anti snp stuff to distract from the topic of the article.

Your post talks about honesty, but labour seem to be the most dishonest of all the parties by a country mile. Curren decided to lie about where she even lived. Arrogance and stupidity showing as if noone would have found out.

All the parties always put their own spin on poll results. So what is your point. The unionist parties always say their is no support for independence yet chicken out holding a referendum as they fear the result will not go their way. Are they lying when they say scotland does not support independence when we really do not know as we have not had a referendum or just spining based on some polls. Remember John Curtis the (unionist supporting i believe) electrol expert say that polls on independence vs the union have been broadly split over the last decade.
57

John south of Soutra,

17/07/2008 09:36:29
A non-political observation, AM2 staes in his 2nd post here's one for all the anoraks, yet he was the only person to make any posts between 11pm and midnight - who is the anorak
58

Pink Sombrero,

17/07/2008 09:40:30
1. AM2

the usual knee jerk, predictable nonsense which shows a complete lack of understanding.

Salmond said the SNP were two thirds of the way to winning last week. He said yesterday it was neck and neck.... i.e the SNP are progressing as the by-election campaign continues. Or is it your understanding AM2 that peoples' choices are locked and suddenly on polling day a massive conversion of opinion will occur, as that is what your silly post suggests.

As Alan B notes, you ignore the point of the article, as usual, to spam us with automatic, anti-SNP bile.

He d
59

AM2,

Scotland,UK 17/07/2008 09:43:52
Three quick points of information. Busy today.

#19 Senga Jean

It wasn't 66%. Nicola Sturgeon cited the proportion only of SNP voters but represented that figure as the total proportion. If you check the poll again you'll see that it was actually only 40%.

#41 Logician
#50 Rev. S. Campbell

Your contortions in order to defend the SNP are risible. The "two-thirds" claim hinged upon Labour being 14% ahead. They can't be simultaneously 14% apart and "neck and neck".

#64 Alan B

You're more than capable of criticising Labour without my help. My comments are intended to even the score. They followed on from the paragraphs 11-13 of the article. I note, however, that since I wrote post #1 the Scotsman has reshaped the article and has removed Salmond’s “two-thirds” quote. So, before I get accused of fabricating it, here’s an alternative from the press release: “After one week of the campaign the SNP is two thirds of the way to a sensational by-election win.”

Have a pleasant day.
60

AM2,

Scotland,UK 17/07/2008 09:45:08
#66 Pink Sombrero

Sorry, no. He said both the quotes in #1 yesterday. Return to base!
61

Pink Sombrero,

17/07/2008 09:46:31
67. The two thirds related to last week. Neck and neck relates to yesterday....i.e movement to the SNP over time as the campaign progresses. Why you try to spin otherwise and distort in your obviously desperate panic at SNP progress in the by-election is rather sad.
62

Miss H,

17/07/2008 09:46:54
46 says 'Must admit I would certainly vote for Curran who whatever faults she has seem like someone who get things done'

Such as? She has been MSP for Baillieston which accounts for about two thirds of the Glasgow East seat since 1999. What has she got done?

Don't answer 'regeneration, Commonwealth Games' because that has been driven by Glasgow City Council with the support of the Scottish Government. (Ifyou had said Steven Purcell is the kind of person who gets things done I would agree though I wouldn't vote for him).

To be fair she tried to get things done in government just not effectively. As minister for communities she was responsible for bringing in asbos - which most agree has proved ineffective in reducing antisocial behaviour on our streets.

She did not vote for the SNP budget which delivered increased funding for frontline policing and which is helping Strathclyde Police put an additional 750 police officers on the beat. Yet she spent a day campaigning in Glasgow East with an actor from Taggart on a themse of making our streets safer. You couldn't make it up could you?

She was also one of the geniuses who delivered the GHA.

Would you still vote for her?
63

Pink Sombrero,

17/07/2008 09:47:50
68. There is no "two thirds" quote in the article. Return to Unionist panic stations and start more desperate (and rather pathetic, irrelevant) spinning.
64

Miss H,

17/07/2008 09:52:19
AM2 Alex Salmond is seeing the canvass figures.

We knew when we were going to win in Govan no matter what the polls said. It's the same here. I dare say you won't accept that but I smell a Govan.

If we are not neck and neck as Alex says that will become apparent on Thursday night/Friday morning and you will be entitled to crow.

But if it turns out we are right and you were wrong I hope you will have the grace to admit it.
65

Banana Heid,

Ayrshire 17/07/2008 10:03:48
Ho Labour! Yer teas oot!
66

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17/07/2008 10:04:33
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,

17/07/2008 10:10:30
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68

G,

dundy 17/07/2008 10:20:15
It is easy to attack the record of the government but if I was a SNPite I might worry about their record in government in Scotland....broken promises and a "do as little as possible so we don't mess up" mentality don't add up to defensible position....
Mason might say that the buck would stop with him BUT as he'll never be in a position of responsibility* so this "promise" is meaningless
* because he is hopeless and any govt that appointed him would prove their uselessness....
69

bluehead,

edinburgh 17/07/2008 10:25:25
there are enough labour puppets in scotland as it is
curran would be dancing on a string, like the rest of the labour mob.
70

Alan B,

17/07/2008 10:28:04
#46 "Obviously a win for John Mason would damage Brown and be of great benefit to the SNP but what benefit would it bring to the people of Glasgow East?"

Do not think any mp will actually have much direct effect on the east of glasgow. It is more which government can make job of running scotland and glasgow.

In this respect i would say labour have been shown to be incompetent. As the economy is the big issue for me, i would say the snp are the placed to do the best for scotland as they are the only one that understands that scottish parliament needs certain powers to make a difference.

(A candidate may have more pull for direct projects if he is an mp for the government in power. In that respect the snp candidate is probably best places as the issues that matter to glasgow directly by be managed by the scottish parliament).
71

Teamdroid,

17/07/2008 10:33:02
#46: actually, Margaret Curran has had a very real effect on many voters in Glasgow East - she helped create the Glasgow Housing Association, along with Wendy Alexander.

Whether you view that as a good or bad thing is of course, up to you, but Ms Curran hasn't exactly been crowing about her involvement on the hustings.
72

Alan B,

17/07/2008 10:33:37
#G

Do not understand your comment.
"do as little as possible so we don't mess up" mentality don't add up to defensible position...."

Surely that was Jack McConnell position when running the scottish government.

The labour governments we have seen both in westminster and holyrood must have been some of the most incompetent.

Labour in power in scottish parliament could not mark the exam papers and made a mess of the education reforms with higher still. Had westminster slagging their health policies. And then had lib dems admit that the hosipital closure policies that they had argeed to as part of their coalition had been wrong. could not even run toll bridges properly as they forgot to sign the necessary papers.

Putting ideology aside we would be a whole lot better from the management of government if people voted anything but labour.
73

gus1940,

Edinburgh 17/07/2008 10:38:02
Q - What is the difference between a Hardline Nationalist and a Hardline Unionist?

A - Our wonderful impartial scottish media seem to apply the adjective only to Nationalists.
74

The Tin Man,

17/07/2008 10:53:26
Will a 3% LIT rate result in cutbacks in public spending in eastern Glasgow?
75

subrosa,

17/07/2008 11:07:38
# 46 ' tog, Edinburgh 17/07/2008 08:34:42
Obviously a win for John Mason would damage Brown and be of great benefit to the SNP but what benefit would it bring to the people of Glasgow East? Must admit I would certainly vote for Curran who whatever faults she has seem like someone who get things done.'

Sadly she's all mouth and nail varnish tog. Great blether right enough but says nothing of substance. It's all 'ifs' or 'I'll give serious consideration...' Really not nearly good enough from someone who wishes to be an MP. The more I see of the woman the more I think she doesn't really want to be elected MP as she's far more comfortable in the Scottish parliament as one of the heid bummers in the labour party there.
76

inkster,

17/07/2008 11:12:55
I saw on TV last night a programme about the British Raj in India.

Just twelve years before independence George V resited (resat?) the already impressive capital from Calcutta to Delhi and built many further impressive colossal colonial buildings to bolster up the dying Raj. Just like Hoxa and Ceausescu and many other empire builders before them. They then stud the circus with pomp and prejudice.

Will the British never learn?

Glasgow East is going to be a landmark victory for Scotland and the SNP.

The people of Glasgow East are loyal and Labour is depending on that alone. But they , like the Indians, and many others before them have had enough of lies and platitudes from the ruling classes.

Helicopters to the ready!
77

westview,

Smelling freedom on the East wind. 17/07/2008 11:13:32
To quote Charles Stross--"As long as you expect someone or some-thing else to take responsibility for you, you're a child.-- What would you call a parent who never let their children grow up?". Scotland, at last ,is growing up, and does not need the umbilical cord to the greedy British Empire any more.
78

subrosa,

17/07/2008 11:14:55
#77
'Mason might say that the buck would stop with him BUT as he'll never be in a position of responsibility* so this "promise" is meaningless
* because he is hopeless and any govt that appointed him would prove their uselessness....'

Oh dearie me. John Mason is the most popular councillor in Glasgow council. Fact. He gets things done. That's why he had the most votes at the last election.

Come on, you can do better than that. Give us a valid reason and stop the rubbish.
79

,

17/07/2008 11:15:13
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80

Suomi,

Salo,Finland 17/07/2008 11:15:40
The posting from 377 does seem to be motivated by partizan party politics.In rsponse I would point out that John Masom(highly respected by his constituents) already has a position of responsibility as leader of the opposition SNP group in Glasgow council.If elected as an MP,he will be able to influence an SNP government,and who knows what the position will be in the future.I guess that many did not see an SNP government coming in 2006.The attacks on Johm Mason on these sites suggest that the SNP are doing rather well in Glasgow East.Rhetoric and innuendo are poor weapons against skilled political opponents who are delivering many of the things that voters want.Smart opponents need to learn to listen actively to their voters and to avoid personal abuse.

I do agree with #82 about the use of the term hardline nationalist.What does it actually mean? Does it refer to someone who believes that independance is normal? My Finnish wife believes that is the case,but would be very surprised to be called hardline,because like most people,she takes independance for granted,and is part of a very international family.Between us we have:

a) 3 daughters who live in 3 different countries (Holland,Scotland and Finland)
b) A Scottish couson who lives in Paris with his French wife
c) A scottish couson who lives in Australia with his English wife
d) An English half brother who lives in London
e) A Finnish neice who lives in London with her English husband
f) A finnish sister-in-law,who lives in Norway with her Norwegian partner etc etc.I could go on and on.All of us consider independence to be normal and natural.Is that hardline? In that case,I think that the SNP have chosen a very good candidate in Glasgow East,since John Mason learned to value independence from his experiences abroad.
81

Nevsky,

Moscow 17/07/2008 11:19:56
77:

"do as little as possible so we don't mess up"

Don't think this a very accurate summation of the SNPs 1st year in power.

Perhaps you prefer the Labour way, make a mess of everything and cost the country billions, unemployment, increasing poverty among the already poor, house reposessions, pensions raided, countries gold sold off, u-turns, lies..you prefer this way of government no doubt?

You have an interesting understanding of politics.
82

,

17/07/2008 11:22:51
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83

Nevsky,

Moscow 17/07/2008 11:24:17
Can any of the Unionists tell me the addresses of any Scottish Embassies operating abroad? Embasses that are focused on promoting Scottish business and toursism and education?

Scotland is the least represented country internatonally that i can think of in Europe.
84

Jimmy the Pie,

17/07/2008 11:24:19
There seems to be an inordinate number of posts deleted today???

None of the posts were offensive or libellous.

The Unionists seem to be in a bit a panic.

Looked like a Orange nutter last night ruined all the threads - HA HA.

Suppose that sums up the Unionists.
If it is critical - delete it.

All very sad.
85

Pink Sombrero,

17/07/2008 11:32:49
George Foulkes trying to calculate Salmond's carbon footprint through official travel....

Meanwhile Gordon Brown hires a private plane, costing £500,000, which had to fly empty from Texas to pick him up in London, to take him to the G8.....

George Foulkes is not a low-grade, pathetic, sniping, hypocritical buffoon at all...
86

The Tin Man,

17/07/2008 11:33:30
#93 Nevski

Can you name me anyone that went on holiday in Spain because there is a Spanish consulate in Edinburgh? Or ditto for the Belgian consulate in Penicuik, of all places.
87

,

17/07/2008 11:33:37
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88

Jimmy the Pie,

17/07/2008 11:35:45
97 HEN BROON,

Where do you fancy a pint then???
89

,

17/07/2008 11:38:26
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90

Pink Sombrero,

17/07/2008 11:45:36
96. Makes you wonder why the previous executive under Labour wanted dedicated Scootish representation un the USA and Brussels, if such missions do not do any good for promoting business and tourism.
91

Nevsky,

Moscow 17/07/2008 11:46:21
96:

Go tell that to the Irish Embassy here and the businesses that are making a big mark in Russia and see if they agree with your pathetic analogy.
92

,

17/07/2008 11:57:07
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93

Boggle fey the Bog,

17/07/2008 12:04:19
67 AM2,Scotland,UK 17/07/2008 09:43:52

Are you talking about the same , now discredited ICM poll that couldn't even get it's tabulation correct, the one with a sample size of 516, using telephonic measures to gather the data, the one which inexplicably weights in favour of the LibDems, the one who's rationale is totally suspect, the one that was carried out for The Daily Telegraph and the Mirror?

If it is, I suggest that you actually read their raw data, as the same poll shows less than 1.5 percentage points between Nu Labour/Owld Torie and Scotland's Party.
It also, cites two different numbers on people who confirmed that they are going to vote, one over 300 the other substantially less, in the mid 200's.

A poll with this amount of respondents would only have a confidence level of about 90% or even less, and the margin of error could be as much as 7.5%, so hardly a 'poll' to be reckoned with.

However anecdotal evidence on the doorstep, would suggest that the Nu Labour/Owld Tories vote is disintegrating at an alarming rate, and Glasgow's Eastenders are mighty displeased with Magda being foisted on them!

You, however in your blind and somewhat irrational allegiance, to anything Unionist and anti Scottish self determination, and in your rush to rubbish Scotland's Party, as usual did not do your homework!

96 The Tin Man,17/07/2008 11:33:30

Aye ME!!!, but not Spain, never quite forgave them for the Civil War and their NAsty background, but certainly Belguim, Ostend, Antwerp ( a very 'brown' place, etc.) ;-)

94

Boggle fey the Bog,

17/07/2008 12:07:48
89 HEN BROON 13,17/07/2008 11:15:13

You're a toasted fruitcake!!
95

Pink Sombrero,

17/07/2008 12:08:37
104/105. Good posts Jackie
96

,

17/07/2008 12:16:41
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97

MtnKat,

17/07/2008 12:16:55
deja vu

AM2 14 months ago. Same posts. Different election. Same result?
98

Boggle fey the Bog,

17/07/2008 12:19:18
Jackie 104/105

Excellent contribution, at one one time I used to travel extensively in Europe, and was always greeted with the 'Ah!! English when they heard me speak, of course my reply was 'no Schottisch, Scozzese, Escocês,Écossais etc;.

You are quite correct, the vast majority of Europeans do think Scotland is a region in England as do quite a large number of U.S. citizens.

It really is time that this perception was altered and the truth told ;-)


99

Talorthane,

17/07/2008 12:47:35
62 Miss H

"The correct opening line to this article should have read THE Labour candidate in the Glasgow East by-election last night walked out of the PCS hustings after half an hour of coming under pressure over her defence of the UK government's call for below-inflation pay rises despite soaring food and fuel bills.

That is what happened. She left the hustings early. John Mason stayed till the end.

Why does the Scotsman not report that?"


The Herald has also given no mention of Curran leaving early, or indeed or having any difficulties with the audience or her opponents.

It is sadly unsurprising, though.

But, do you know if any more of these hustings debates are planned? I wouldn't mind attending, if only to see if Curran turns up.
100

Andrah,

Embrugh 17/07/2008 12:57:42
#110 Reminds me of a business visit to Munich when I was working out of London some years ago. "You are aus Schottland?" I was asked by my local host, and answered "Ja". "I can tell", he went on, "you speak English with a German accent!!"
101

Brian Hill,

17/07/2008 13:04:22
vis-a-vis Mr foulke's question re the number of times Salmond travels between Holyrood and Bute House. Would he have Scotland's Prime Minister get the bus or perhaps follow his own example of curbing his carbon footprint by sitting on his fat ar*se most of the day and not moving?

Is Labour ever going to come up with any serious points in this campaign or indeed at any time? Trouble is when your sychophnatic friends in the press are willing to publish every belch you make with all the gravitas of a Churchillian speech it would tend to obviate the need to engage brain before opening mouth.


102

The Tin Man,

17/07/2008 13:14:12
#101 Nevski

I was refering to tourism, which tends to be promoted by tourist boards, rather than embassies, which tend to promote cocktail parties, but hey-ho.
103

Nevsky,

Moscow 17/07/2008 13:14:27
Another embarassement for Labour. It seems the actor 'Michie' was on the political programme 'this week' last year and made a short piece on how great Scotland could be if independent.

Also stated yesterday that the Union was redundant..Labours reply was that unlike the SNP they are not a single issue party...ooops!
104

Number 6,

17/07/2008 13:15:00
#63 Miss H. I can only assume you have not seen the picture in Question. It shows Curran sitting with a Labour Party activist, someone who not only sponsered her nomination , but has already received a Gong from Westminster. He is "proudly pictured showing her his medals, this 93 year old hero is infact 67 and WELL known to MZZZZZZZZZZ Curran.

There is no way it's a "Mistake", the next time you hear a Labour lackey say it , simply call them a liar,
because they are. Just like her assertion to have always lived in the Eastend. LIAR LIAR LIAR.

I understand she was only the 5th choice but really
is this the best quality alternative labour could find?

Nothing but a compulsive liar.
105

Nevsky,

Moscow 17/07/2008 13:16:11
114:

Absolute nonesene, you have no idea what you are talking about.
106

,

17/07/2008 13:18:38
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107

Number 6,

Germany 17/07/2008 13:25:12
118 Lawd Foulkes, THAT is one of the great mysteries of our time, bizarrely, many of them plan to do so again, no matter how badly they are treated by the sitting Labour liar.
108

Jay Kay,

17/07/2008 13:41:11
I hear Chalmers and Oxford English are to re-define the word Politician.

Politician:- Cheat, Liar, theif, greedy fat, self centred pig like creatures, someone who will promise you the world and provide nothing in return, often to be found in hiding behind large walls of stately halls of residence with armed security and vast sums of personal wealth stashed under every mattress. Personal traits include stealing pension funds, introducing new unworkable laws whereby the only real deal means additional taxation for the poor. Will sell of all the countries assets, gold for mear paper euros, and who will laugh mercilessly at the most unfortunate people in society, often to be found with a very sick sense of humour, will postulate about how much food we all waste then tuck into a 9 course meal at a waste of time sumit, all in the name of being more green.

109

jacquesmac,

17/07/2008 13:42:32
#120

Sorry she was 9th!

There was the red ballon on the stick and me, but I put down the phone on Gordon too
110

Shredder,

17/07/2008 13:45:36
#120 solis: but Labour now have the quality candidate, a big hitter who contrasts somewhat with the fringe fundamentalist nationalist put up by the SNP. About says it all really, doesn’t it, solis!

If you Nats can't win when Labour's on the ropes, when can you? We'll see, all you Nats out there!
111

Number 6,

Germany 17/07/2008 13:51:06
123# Do you accept Curran has lied to the people of Glasgow east about:
a. Where she lives.
b. Meeting War Heros who are nothing of the sort ?.

And she's not even in power yet !
112

Linda,

Edinburgh 17/07/2008 14:01:36
Notice every false accusation by George Foulkes is reported by Scotsman / Evening News but all references to Lord Foulkes 3 jobs and expenses where he claimed £45,000 living allowance from taxpayer on property he owned and is the registered office for his political lobbying business is censored.
113

Shredder,

17/07/2008 14:03:22
#124 Number 6: in their zeal, the Nats seem all to anxious to seize on every remark Margaret makes in the hope they can make something of it. Who hasn’t made vague statements about themselves in everyday off the cuff speech which aren’t strictly true when subjected to rigorous analysis?

Margaret was born and brought up in the East End and worked there: that gives her strong local connections, but she loosely said that she had “lived there all her life”. So what! Big deal, unless you’re a fanatical Nat! Same goes for the war heroes: get a life and get real, all you Nats out there!
114

Hen Broons wee Ma.,

17/07/2008 14:21:47
The big mans away for the weekend so I thought I would just post a wee note on his behalf.

He's a good big loon and he looks after Pa and me. I don't understand why they keep deleting him of here as he does no worse than some of the other posters. Some of them are just vile. I suppose it is the times we live in, censorship by the state is very dangerous Pa said.

When you see this kind of thing: (89HEN BROON 13,17/07/2008 11:15:13#74: you're toast, fruitcake! ) it just shows us how steeped this paper is in the unionist establishment, and how they condone this censorship. Very sad for a once great Scottish newspaper.

Jimmy The Pie, Hen says he will meet you for a pint and will log on when he gets back, he will send you a disposable, what ever that is.

Looking forward to the by election in Glasgow, it is exciting. What a shame about yon Curran one telling lies and all that shouting, you would think Labour could have done better. Must go now Pa and me are of to Florida.



ALBA GU BRATH.
115

Hen Broons wee Ma.,

17/07/2008 14:23:56
PS. I forgot to post this, it was in Hens notepad:




CURRANS LIES TO DATE.

1) She lied on camera, (STV.) that she has lived in the East End all her life.
2) She lied to the parents of the toddler shot by an airgun that she supports them, when in fact her stated position in The Scottish Parliament is that she is against an air gun ban, she supports the London line. As the matter is reserved.
3) On her blog she posed with what she described as a 93 year old world war veteran, who was plainly not 93 and was not the person in question.
4) She then lied again when she said that the picture was transposed. Examination has proved that it was not.

The problem seems to be as it is with all compulsive liars that they just would not recognise the truth but feel the need to speak on every subject.


You cannot shut me up AM2.

116

Talorthane,

17/07/2008 14:26:21
#126 Shredder

"she loosely said that she had “lived there all her life”


Margaret Curran was launching her campaign at the time when she made the announcement:

"I've worked in the east end all my life, and lived in the east end all my life."

These are definitive statements.

At the time that she made the statement, she lived in the Southside, where she had done for the previous 19 years.

You do no accidentally forget where you have lived for the last 2 decades unless there are other problems.

But Margaret "doesn't-look-a-day-over-70" Curran is making a habit of having to say that she didn't mean things that she said. How on earth can voters have any faith that she can represenet them in Westminster if she has such a tendancies to not say what she means and not mean what she says.

Or would this be her excuse for voting against the interests of those voters in the east end.

She did not mean to vote against returning Attendance Allowance to pay for Free Personal Care and that she did not mean to say she and Labour fully accepted Lord Sutherland's Report, on which this claim was based.

She did not mean to vote against scrapping the Council Tax.

She did not mean to vote to hamper councils building new council houses by not restricting right to buy legislation.

She did not mean to vote against scrapping the graduate endowment tuition fee for students.

She mean to support a freeze on the Council Tax, but didn't do so.

She meant to support record spending for local authorities, but didn't do so.

She meant to support reducing prescription charges - a tax on the ill, but didn't do so.

She meant to support 1000 extra police officers on Scotland's streets (750 extra in Strathclyde) but didn't do so.

She didn't mean to vote against new patient rights.

She meant to support billions being wasted on weapons of mass destruction, but didn't do so.

She didn't mean to spend half a billion pounds on a tram line in Edinburgh - mon
117

Talorthane,

17/07/2008 14:27:25
Yeah, if she claims that she really does stand up for the peaple of Glasgow East, she really needs to sort out this tendency of constantly failing to vote in accordance with their needs.
118

,

17/07/2008 14:47:34
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119

Alan B,

17/07/2008 14:47:50
#Shredder

"but Labour now have the quality candidate"

You have got to be joking. Of all the candidates from the big 4 parties she is by far the worst. The tory woman actually has come across the best from the individual interviews i have seen on newsnight, followed by the snp guy.

I also do not know how you can be so dismissive of the lies she has told regarding where she lives. No matter what party we would support we all should round and hound out of political life the dishonest politicians rather than making excuses for them. It does the labour party no favours having so many corrupt politicians both morally and financially as we have seen from wendy to michael martin etc to all the dodgy donations.

120

,

17/07/2008 14:52:52
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121

Alan B,

17/07/2008 14:56:00
#a proud doonhamer

I was surprise the taggart actor was with Curran after seeing him slag of the union and supporting independence on Andrew Neils political show around the time of the election last year.

I also found it bizzarre the scotman never mentioned his support for the snp last year (Neil being their ex editor and all that). I pointed that out in a post at the time of the scotsman article.

He seems abit all over the place and a weird chose for curran to associate with given his outspoken comments. Makes you wonder if his acting role dried up after coming out supporting the snp.
122

Traquir , Alba,

17/07/2008 14:58:25
A few posters yesterday mentioned they suspected
that Labour's latest publicity stunt of using
Taggart actor John Michie was
somewhat suspect. Well yet again nationalists are spot on.

From the BBC -

" Labour actor backed independence"

"he said the union was "the last vestige of an empire on which the sun has well and truly set".

"Mr Michie said an independent Scotland would never have participated in the war in Iraq and described independence as a "constructive process" which would also benefit England.

"An independent Scotland would find a new confidence,"

"It would slow down the brain-drain that causes this country to lose so many of its most brightest and most skilled."

"he felt the UK was emotionally and politically redundant."

see tinyurl.com/67pbgh

Perhaps these were all slips of the tongue. Somebody
should ask Ms Curran her opinion on each of these
comments from her latest best friend.

Perhaps Ms Curran will next go walk about
with Sean Connery
and send another personal letter trying to convince
John Mason to vote Labour. Labour are just a a total
farce akin to a barrel of Red rosette monkeys. Their
cunning plans are so incompetent they are now
making Wendy truly look like she does have
a brain the size of planet in comparison - perhaps
a yet another cunning ploy to prepare for a Wendy
comeback.

Saor Alba
123

Miss H,

17/07/2008 14:59:32
126 Look we all saw it. She said I have worked in the east end all my life. I have lived in the east end all my life. It was quite intentional.

I agree the war hero pic was a genuine mistake along with writing begging letters to the SNP candidate.

But she did intentionally tell a porky pie saying that she had lived in the east end all her life. Possibly it just slipped out under pressure but that’s the kind of thing you want to watch out for in a politician. Lying under pressure – not a good sign.
124

The Tin Man,

17/07/2008 15:01:59
#117 Nevski

Please expand on your comment, and enlighten me.
125

,

17/07/2008 15:02:35
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126

Shredder,

17/07/2008 15:03:17
#131 Talorthane: at least Margaret doesn’t support poll tax 2, which can only hit hard working families on two modest wages who currently pay minimal band A council tax on their local authority properties.

I can just hear you muttering under your breath “Erm right, Shredder!” Is Shredder right or is Shredder right!
127

Alastair the First,

17/07/2008 15:05:32
Shredder: cliche alert!! Poll tax 2 I think not. The poll tax wasn't related to ability to pay. Nor for that matter is the current council tax.
128

Jock MacTamson 2,

Highlands 17/07/2008 15:07:20
#138 Miss H

You are clearly taking the world "ALL" out of context and not understanding the real meaning of the statement. "ALL" is a confusing word for a lobour official. It is often misused when they are talking about helping "ALL" of society, when they really mean "PART" of society. Namely themselves and their friends and families.

It was not an intentional lie. You can trust the labour party to tell the truth. Look at their record.

Trust Labour, look at the great job they have done in Glasgows East End.
129

Miss H,

17/07/2008 15:08:26
116 I do think it was a mistake - she did meet the war veteran in question, they just used the wrong picture which has now been changed on her blog.

Their whole campaign has been accident prone from this, to bringing in an actor who supports independence, to sending letters to the SNP candidate, to phoning SNP members asking them to vote SNP - and then phoning them back again the next day to ask the same question!

It is all indicative of a campaign which is a bit of a shambles.

130

Union is Best,

17/07/2008 15:08:37
141. Shredder - great post, and you are spot on.

Margaret supports:

- abolishing the 10p tax band, increasing the tax burden on the low paid

- the council tax which has risen 60% in 8 years

- massive fuel duty which accounts for 70% of the sky high price of petrol

- huge retrospective increases in vehicle duty

- below inflation pay rises for public sector workers

All measures I am sure you agree will lighten the load on the least well off. Every little helps after all!
131

Union is Best,

17/07/2008 15:09:42
141. Master, why do you keep using these monikers? You run the risk of not being paid per post properly.
132

Talorthane,

17/07/2008 15:16:04
#141 Shredder

Could you explain, in the context of the Glasgow East by-election, what is meant by the phrase "hard working families"?
133

Jimmy the Pie,

17/07/2008 15:16:12
Curran defends public sector pay curbs.

Of course she would. The New Labour Sleaze and Corruption Party need all the money they can get, to keep their ample troughs filled to overflowing, so they can continue to gorge themselves and keep themselves in the style that their constituents can only dream about!

How much did David Marshall salt away????
134

Talorthane,

17/07/2008 15:17:55
#141 Shredder

At what point in history did Labour abandon the principle of "ability to pay" when advocating for the people they claim to represent?
135

Jimmy the Pie,

17/07/2008 15:21:17
Are the Polis making any headway in their enquiries regarding the frauds perpetrated by Glasgow Council and the expenses embezzlement by David Marshall, former MP for Glasgow East??????
136

Jimmy the Pie,

17/07/2008 15:24:44
And of course there is the fraud investigation into Falkirk District Council's land sale at well below market value to a company of Dutch property developers. I wonder how that investigation is going.

For those of you who don't know, Falkirk District Council are run by New Labour Sleaze and Corruption.

Surprised????
137

Number 6,

17/07/2008 15:29:10
126 Shredder thank you for being here. Talk about a total abscence of reality.

This was a planned, indeed photographed attempt to CON the people of Glasgow East. She has not even got her feet under the table yet but we are to accept her lies, and when exposed, we are to accept they were Off the Cuff, Vauge, Slip of the tounge simple mistakes ?

Gasp. At least , we hear she was boo-ed and heckled last night and taken to task over her lies. I think it is disgusting that no attempt at damage limitation has been carried out, no fake apology , nothing.

Such is their contempt for the voters in this seat, that they don't feel they need to explain themselves.
Everyone should just shut up and vote Labour. Eh ?.
138

European Scot,

17/07/2008 15:31:40
104/5 Jackie Priest

I heartily agree with your excellent post.
Sometimes viewing things from a wider perspective, does give a much clearer overall picture.
To the many Unionists on here who consider themselves so much closer to the action, woods and trees come to mind.
In some cases, thick as.
Nice post Jackie.

90 Good post as well Suomi.
139

The Master,

17/07/2008 15:34:07
#142 Miss H: the Taggart actor may support independence, but he’s not so vehement a Nat that he refuses to endorse Labour (Robbie Coltrane is another example of this).

I’m sure that Labour are quite happy for their supporters to lean towards separation if they can nonetheless count on their votes. What’s this all about? It just escapes me, but there again I’m not exactly a Nat!
140

A Better Way,

Republic of Scotland 17/07/2008 15:35:53
Kenfitlike,

Aye and follow the link to hear the passion he puts into his Independance belief.http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/7511649.stm

As we Scottish Patriots have always claimed, the real figures of who supports an Independant Scotland are yet to show themselves in 2010, when the people of our country fully realise that the Westmonster System of left wing and rightwing politics do not stand up to the Scottish Nations peoples commitment to their own kind.

Just imagine living in an Independant Scotland where the Government is merely a servant of the People of this Great Land of ours. Imagine having a Scottish Constitution reintroduced that nominates the Scottish People as the Sovereign Power in our land, there to be served by a government who cannot sign away our rights without fearing the wrath of the People. The Westminster System does not have any form of safeguards for the People, when a meglomaniac like Brown gets into office and denies the People its right to decide any Constitutional Matters.

Saor Alba
141

Shredder,

17/07/2008 15:39:57
#145 Talorthane: I’m not what anyone who would describe as “hard working” myself (witness the amount of time I spend on here), so am not sure how to respond to your post.

To turn the question around, what do you understand by the phrase? As far as I’m concerned, it’s people who are a lot poorer (or “less fortunate”) than I.
142

brownlie,

17/07/2008 15:47:11
Any poster claiming labour tells lies is telling lies and the more telling the lie the better we like it. We can identify lies and identify with lies.

Any poster who accuses us of telling lies is a tell-tale tit.
143

A Better Way,

Republic of Scotland 17/07/2008 15:48:35
Isnt it grand seeing our Prime Minister Alex Salmond out there campaigning with the hundreds of Volunteer Independance Supporters who are travelling from every corner of our great nation, to Glasgow East.

Unlike Brown,our Prime Minister Alex doesnt have to hide from the People for fear of being abused. He is having a grand time out there spreading the news of The Second Scottish Enlightenment, where we can beat our chests and stand proud of being who we are.

We are the Nation of Scotland, a proud race who made its mark on the world, and whos people have been amongst the most influential guides to so many Democratic Nations. The American Nation used our Declaration of Arbroath as a guide to their Constitution. Every Australian Prime Minister is held in state at the St Andrews Church in Melbourne.
144

Talorthane,

17/07/2008 15:48:54
#155 Shredder

If you do not know who or what "hard working families" are, why did you say:

"at least Margaret doesn’t support poll tax 2, which can only hit hard working families on two modest wages who currently pay minimal band A council tax on their local authority properties"

How do you know that these people will be affected detrimentally if you don't know who they are.

From my own understanding it is only those who have two or more earners in the one household, and living in a certain level of banding who would lose out.

But if local taxation is changed to reflect income (and ability to pay) it is those who can afford it who would pay more, and those who are less able to pay who would pay less.

This seems like a principle that the original Labour party would have embraced and supported at any cost as a part of the process of enabling the less well off.

The fact that the current New Labour party oppose this approach is an indication of how much this party has changed and abondoned its founding principles and the people it still claims to represent.
145

Shredder,

17/07/2008 15:50:35
#148 Talorthane: excuse me, but if you are a solicitor living in a large mansion house with grounds in somewhere like, oh let me think, how about rural Perthshire – that’s a good example), you will pay a lot less in CT than a public sector worker (earning slightly above the minimum wage) who lives in a housing association property in Easterhouse.

Now try telling me again that CT’s not linked to ability to pay (or do the Nats perhaps have some special reason for seeking to cosy up to Perthshire man rather than Easterhouse man?)
146

Talorthane,

17/07/2008 15:56:55
#159 Shredder

In the example you gave, the solicitor would pay more, not because of his income, but because he has a bigger house.

They would both have to pay their calculated amounts regardless of their ability to pay.

In the same example, the solicitor would still pay more in local income tax than the public sector worker (assuming her earned more), but they would both pay only a fixed proportion of their incomes. So they would pay according to their ability.

This should be a familiar concept to anyone who claims to represent the working class.
147

Talorthane,

17/07/2008 16:01:20
#159 Shredder

Since you are now defending the Council Tax, as opposed to the Local Income Tax, let me put forward another example.

Your solicitor moves to Glasgow; next door to your public sector worker.

The solicitor earns $60,000 per year, and the public sector worker earns $20,000.

You are arguing that it is fair that they both pay the same amount of Council Tax.

Under the Local Income Tax, as devised, the solicitor would pay around £2,000 per year, while the public secotr worker would pay around £667.

(I know these figures aren't entirely accurate, but I can't be bothered working out personal allowances.)
148

Talorthane,

17/07/2008 16:02:33
161 continued

And which of these proposals should a Labour party be advocating?
149

Shredder,

17/07/2008 16:05:27
#151 Number 6: I commend you on your righteous indignation, but I think we both know that the war hero incident is more likely to have been "one of those things" than a cynical con trick. Is anyone, setting aside the mock indignation of many Nats on here, really all that shocked anyway?
150

Shredder,

17/07/2008 16:18:20
#161 Talorthane: but CT is a system that has proved workable, unlike its predecessor poll tax 1 (yes, I stand by my assertion that any local tax which is not property based has much in common with the community charge). CT has none of the many administrative pitfalls that have been identified by the CBI and others (try googling the Scotsman’s excellent article “CBI SAVAGES PLAN FOR LOCAL INCOME TAX”).

In practice, the solicitor is not going to live in Easterhouse in order to save money on his CT bill, so what’s your problem old son?
151

Miss H,

17/07/2008 16:22:15
139 Wee hint - when you start a sentence with at least so-and-so doesn't you are tacitly admitting that there is something wrong with them. Yes she's a liar but at least she doesn't eat babies kind of thing.

Less than a quarter of houses in Glasgow pay band A council tax.

Band A council tax in Glasgow is currently £1,061.69

A couple both earning the median wage would pay less in taxation than they do now.

They would pay £843.42 jointly under the SNP’s proposals compared to the £1,061.69 they pay now.

Or maybe you are thinking of people living in a band A house in Newlands? tee hee.
152

Jimmy the Pie,

17/07/2008 16:27:34
Any word yet on New Labour Sleaze and Corruption's Lard Foolkes 'investigation' into our Prime Minister Alex Salmond's carbon footprint????

Perhaps His Lardship could also give us his thoughts on David Marshall's carbon footprint.

Or does he use the internet to move his money away from prying eyes???

Do tell us Your Lardship
153

Shredder,

17/07/2008 16:27:52
#164 solis: I was in two minds about the Gulf War (and do not wish to go off at a tangent on this subject), but let’s just say that it’s not all as cut and dried as you seem to have convinced yourself. It’s doubtful if the war was indeed “illegal” and Saddam was guilty of genocide against his own people.

Try telling the Marsh Arabs that the invasion wasn’t justified and try to convince anyone who cares about human suffering that the Allied Forces should have withdrawn straight away after the invasion and “left them to it”)! As for Afghanistan, Allied Forces are currently engaged in reconstruction of the country following a defensive attack by the US.
154

Miss H,

17/07/2008 16:28:35
165 Shredder you have not been to the east end for a while have you? There is a lot of new private housing going up around Easterhouse.

Indeed given the amount of new housing that is going up in Glasgow (and other places) if council tax is kept there will have to be a revaluation.

Now if you have a 3 bedroomed house in Easterhouse how are you going to justify valuing it a lower rate than a 3 bedroomed house in Swinton? It's going to be very difficult without officially categorising areas as u or non-u which goes completely against the theory of regeneration based on mixed tenure.

All a bit off track but something that just occurred to me.
155

Tarchin,

Lothian 17/07/2008 16:31:20
The "Holy Willies" are out in force again I see. A few days ago Bishop Joe Devine said that Labour had lost much of moral high ground by backing the Human Embryology and Reproduction bill in Westminster. When questioned about this John Mason said that he did not support research on babies: neither does anyone else. I think that accountant John Mason should learn something about the purposes of this embryological research before making ill advised statements, I would not accuse him of lying just of commenting on questions he does not understand.
156

Mr. Henry Brown Esquire.,

INVERCOCKALEEKIE 17/07/2008 16:33:20
#167 "Perhaps His Lardship could also give us his thoughts on David Marshall's carbon footprint. "


"Lardship," fecking cracker :o)

LOL!!!
157

Shredder,

17/07/2008 16:40:39
#166 Miss H: unlike you Nats, the rest of us don’t indulge in the “cult of the personality” when it comes to political leaders. It’s only you Nats who expect too much from your politicians (perhaps because you are so dazzled by the supposed “brave new world” which you have convinced yourselves separation will bring).

I admit that Glasgow has an extremely low CT base, but am still far from convinced that you Nats are on to a vote winner: how about the unemployed man in his early 20s who currently lives with his parents in Easterhouse and contributes nothing in CT? He’s going to suffer under LIT and he’s the type of voter you need to attract if you’re to broaden your appeal.

#172: I have some sympathy with your stance, but am not convinced that the war is illegal - the lawyers are divided.
158

Shredder,

17/07/2008 16:41:28
#173: point taken.
159

Penicuik Laddie,

17/07/2008 16:53:39
"The union between Scotland and England is the last vestige of an empire on which the sun has well and truly set. This union has become a barrier for Scotland participating in a younger union - the European Union. An independent Scotland would find a new confidence, it would slow down the brain-drain that causes this country to lose so many of its most brightest and most skilled. And Edinburgh, that great European capital that has already witnessed one Enlightenment, could once again be the cradle for new insights in modernity and progress." - John Michie, actor and star of Taggart, 26th April 2007, BBC This Week programme.
Labour's next "high profile supporter" is rumoured to be Bobo the Clown !
160

Shredder,

17/07/2008 17:11:36
#169 Miss H: I know I’m showing my ignorance as usual, but what is “u and non u”? Btw, I do have a second home in the Merchant City and see the new housing you refer to when I travel through.
161

Miss H,

17/07/2008 17:16:14
174 If he is unemployed he does not pay council tax and will not pay LIT. But if he gets a job that is where things change.

Because one of the reasons Glasgow has such a high rate of people on out-of-work benefits is because council tax and rents are relatively high and therefore are a disincentive to work. CT is a regressive tax - it penalises those on a low income the most because it takes up a bigger proportion of their earnings. With a LIT based on ability to pay that disincentive is reduced because it is a progressive tax.

Maybe changing to LIT would even allow this chap to get a flat of his own.
162

Miss H,

17/07/2008 17:18:30
170 fair comment - that is an example of a politician opening his mouth before putting his brain in gear. As opposed to someone telling a deliberate lie about where they live.
163

brownlie,

17/07/2008 17:25:16
174 Shredder

"It's only you Nats who expect too much from your politicians" - what a significant and disgraceful admission in a democracy!
164

Shredder,

17/07/2008 17:30:03
#182 brownlie: but other countries laugh off what passes for "sleaze" in this country: yours is a very British attitude! The antics of many other European politicians make Trumpgate (and yes, Wendy's antics) seem as nothing!
165

Jimmy the Pie,

17/07/2008 17:36:28
#183 Shredder,
Trumpgate was nothing despite that idiot Nicall's best efforts to find anything.

While we're on the subject of truth, did Maggie Curran ever stand on the picket lines at the peace camp at Faslane, protesting against Trident?????
166

brownlie,

17/07/2008 17:41:13
183 Shredder

Are you seriously suggesting that our taxes being deliberately misused to make millionaires out of self-serving nonentities is a "laughing matter" and should be in any way condoned?
167

westview,

Spot on. 17/07/2008 17:47:26
Just checked the index on a "teach yourself "language course. It was a European language and the course is edited by a well known company. Presumably they use the same book in reverse to teach Europeans. There is a place in the index for British , English man , English woman, but no entry for Scots ,Irish or Welsh. No wonder they call us "English". Our existence has been edited out by english publishers. Time to be seen and to connect with the rest of the world by voting for independence.
168

The Master,

17/07/2008 17:58:55
#186 westview: sorry to disappoint you, but there was an Irishman on here a few weeks ago who said that many abroad are convinced that Ireland is part of “England” when he goes abroad and that many years of separation having made a whit of difference. Perhaps this is because Ireland isn’t exactly a major world player and so its independence hasn’t exactly registered on the world radar. On this basis, I just can’t understand how you Nats always trumpet that separation would mean that Scotland would be distinguishable from England as far as the world is concerned.
169

kimba,

17/07/2008 18:07:46
Margaret’s able to hold her own,and that’s what you Nat’s don’t like,you’re running scared,aren’t you,when you should be wanting her to win,as she’d have stood up to salmond and got the better of him if she’d taken over from wendy,didn’t he say he was frightened of her winning before wendy took over. What class,telling Mason to behave himself lol
170

The Master,

17/07/2008 18:09:41
#188 Richard: either that, or too clever by half! Enough of your logic chopping already!
171

Union is Best,

17/07/2008 18:11:31
189. Kimba. Well said. The Master frequently holds his own too.
172

Union is Best,

17/07/2008 18:12:11
190. Master/ Shredder/ Kimba - nice moniker changes, almost seemless!
173

Shredder,

17/07/2008 18:25:59
#192: I can assure you of my complete independence from the thoroughly unpleasant characters you mention. Who are you when you're not UIB? Pink Sombrero?
174

ochone,

Sauchie, Clack's 17/07/2008 18:28:28
Now that she has had to comment on that from the governments point of view, could some one please ask her what her opinion is about soldiers that the same government sent to Iraq, to a war which many still think illegal and against which many thousands took to the streets to protest, being found guilty of torture and murder against Iraq's, or in other words war crimes.

Who does she hold responsible?

Should any members of the (Labour)British government be put in front of a war crimes tribunal?

If so who?

If not, why not?

Why does she want to be a member of a government with innocent blood on it's hands?
175

Publius,

London 17/07/2008 18:36:26
#187 The Master

About a couple of years ago (2006 I think) I met a French lectrice in London. [Lectrice equals French University student studying English and doing one year in schools in London befor finishing her degree course in Paris.] I said she should visit Edinburgh. She said she would like to, but couldn't because they spoke Gaelic in Scotland and she didn't understand Gaelic.
Absolutely true.
176

The Master,

17/07/2008 18:37:29
#194 ochone: "wars which MANY still think illegal". If it's not cut and dried, why are you making sweeping allegations?
177

Publius,

London 17/07/2008 18:40:48
170 Tarchin

Control over these matters - abortion, fertilisation, medical research, laws about euthanasia - should be devolved to Holyrood. It is anomalous that Holyrood should control education, health and law but not be able to legislate on these matters. The Catholic/Presbyterian/atheist quarrel about medicine, ethics and education is a Scottish thing and we should sort out ourselves, not leave it to Westminster.
178

Publius,

London 17/07/2008 18:44:44
#180 Miss H

There is a flaw in your logic. People with low incomes are eligible for reliefs on rent and council tax.

There are lots of reasons why so many people in Glasgow East are not in paid employment, but council tax is probably the least important.
179

Publius,

London 17/07/2008 18:50:05
177 Penicuik Laddie

You obviously don't like John Michie but your party - the SNP - hired John Michie first! If he left Labour and went back to the SNP would you welcome him?

By the way, where does Michie live? Last I hear he had left Edinburgh and was living in England somewhere.
180

The Master,

17/07/2008 18:57:25
#200: that's funny! I seem to recall that Alex said that he feared Curran would take control at the time of McConnell's resignation. I know he was right not to fear Wendy, but why are you Nats all of a sudden trying to make light of Margaret? You're on quicksand here, if you've really underestimated her that much, methinks!
181

Union is Best,

17/07/2008 18:58:34
200. Rubbish.

Given that Margaret Curran's briefings against Wendy Alexander (she was quoted as calling Wendy "shockingly and appallingly bad" at FMQs) contributed to Wendy's downfall, clearly Margaret is a much sharper operator.
182

Union is Best,

17/07/2008 18:59:16
201. Indeed, Wendy underestimated Margaret, and look what happened to Wendy.....
183

Jock Tamson,

Scotland, Caledonia, Alba 17/07/2008 19:02:03
What I cannot understand from the article is how Ross Lydall can equate the bold statement that Ms Curran was defiant and faced down her critics with a quote of "That's not fair. Behave yourself, John."

Hoo, hoo, John, you cheeky wee thing. (defiant and well articulated, honest response in a face down manner - not faced down her critics manner.
184

The Master,

17/07/2008 19:05:45
#204: but Labour inadvertently stumbled across the best candidate for Glasgow East: look at how the bookies have slashed the odds since Margaret became the candidate! Last night William Hill had Labour as 8/13 odds on favourite and the Nats at 6/5.
185

Jock Tamson,

Scotland, Caledonia, Alba 17/07/2008 19:05:59
201, The Master, (when do you eventually grow up to be a Mister?), if Curran was such anoutstanding candidate for leader of the SLabs - and everyone else was in such awe of her - why do you think Broon has ordered her to stand as an MP?
186

Jock Tamson,

Scotland, Caledonia, Alba 17/07/2008 19:13:43
208, Spook, I believe there is a Privet Hedge Fund.
187

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17/07/2008 19:14:50
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Jock Tamson,

Scotland, Caledonia, Alba 17/07/2008 19:21:46
212, Spook, indeed it has. Ask Gordon why.

The Privet Hedge Fund was a taxation policy to fund public sector pensions from the income of the private sector.
189

Jock Tamson,

Scotland, Caledonia, Alba 17/07/2008 19:34:03
216, Spook, I am glad you mind the Privet Hedge Fund because you and I just made it up.
190

bully wee alba,

Edinburgh 17/07/2008 19:34:24
#201writes:-

“that's funny! I seem to recall that Alex said that he feared Curran would take control at the time of McConnell's resignation.”

And your source for this alleged comment is?

Balloon
191

Conan the Librarian™,

17/07/2008 19:35:08
208

HOI! LIBRARIANS!
192

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17/07/2008 19:36:13
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Conan the Librarian™,

17/07/2008 19:36:19
217
Shear lunacy;-)
194

Pink Sombrero,

17/07/2008 19:36:53
219. Hoi! Saggitarians!
195

,

17/07/2008 19:38:08
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Conan the Librarian™,

17/07/2008 19:38:54
222
Me also:-)
197

Jock Tamson,

Scotland, Caledonia, Alba 17/07/2008 19:40:51
re 217, Spook, given the obscurity of the Scotsman crossword compilers these days, perhaps the Privet Hedge Fund could be an apt way of describing a stealth tax or any undeclared Labour income (income by any means)?

As a crossword addict, I did note a difference in the language between AMtwa on posts 1 & 2 and the later ones. Wonder who was filling in for him (them)?
198

Conan the Librarian™,

17/07/2008 19:42:35
225
Apology accepted Spook.

Emu's getting a bit uppity though.
199

Publius,

London 17/07/2008 19:43:52
#208 The Spook

I stand by my 195. Every word is true.

I still hope that Anne-Marie visited Scotland.... but, if she did, I hope she din't meet any miserable s.ds like you.
200

Conan the Librarian™,

17/07/2008 19:45:09
226
Perhaps its before and after medication/vodka Jock.

Or a successfull sale perhaps?
201

Jock Tamson,

The Astral plane 17/07/2008 19:47:15
Any room for a bull with saggitarius rising and a libra horizon?
202

Jock Tamson,

Scotland, Caledonia, Alba 17/07/2008 19:51:05
230, Spook, I have a hard space in my name as I got moderated before. Took out the hard space one as a safeguard against cloning.

231, Conan, I still thing AMtwa is a journalistic plant.
203

Jock Tamson,

Scotland, Caledonia, Alba 17/07/2008 19:51:59
I even still think that AMtwa is a journalistic plant.
204

Conan the Librarian™,

17/07/2008 19:59:04
236
A Hootsman vegetable?
205

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17/07/2008 19:59:59
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Jock Tamson,

Scotland, Caledonia, Alba 17/07/2008 20:00:03
The hard space is achieved by holding down the Alt key and pressing 160. Then you can post garbage like this in a straight line. It is, of course, rather tedious.
207

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17/07/2008 20:02:00
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17/07/2008 20:02:51
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Publius,

London 17/07/2008 20:03:08
#234 The Spook

Why does my location move between Girvan and London. No secret. I work in London, but try to get to Girvan most weekends and stay with my mother. I spend my holidays there too. My ex and children live in Ayrshire. This way I get to see the kids.

210

Pink Sombrero,

17/07/2008 20:04:41
244. I have seen him in Jesters wearing a Union Jack waistcoat.
211

Jock Tamson,

Scotland, Caledonia, Alba 17/07/2008 20:05:51
240, Bird of Prey, can you remember how well you did on the pub quiz? That would have been about Corpach?

Alcheimers, you know.
212

,

17/07/2008 20:06:30
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,

17/07/2008 20:07:29
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Jock Tamson,

Scotland, Caledonia, Alba 17/07/2008 20:08:26
well then, Bird of Prey @ 243, why do you have so many spaces in your name, doh? Have you that many log in IDs?
215

Pink Sombrero,

17/07/2008 20:08:50
246. Are you an alchemist then
216

Pink Sombrero,

17/07/2008 20:09:58
249. WHy do you have a hard space in your moniker? And what is your record for number of consecutive questions asked?
217

Jock Tamson,

Scotland, Caledonia, Alba 17/07/2008 20:12:35
Well, Bird of Prey 9with all those spaces just waiting to be filled), I remember it too. The pulp mill closed. It was on the Mallaig side. That's all you had to say.

So just keep popping away at me if you wish.
218

Pink Sombrero,

17/07/2008 20:13:30
252. Agreed, I prefer Ardrossan
219

Jock Tamson,

Scotland, Caledonia, Alba 17/07/2008 20:15:39
250, Pink Sombrero, Alcheimist please. It's an age thing - I refuse to drink anything until it has matured.
220

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17/07/2008 20:16:11
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221

Pink Sombrero,

17/07/2008 20:16:53
256. ooo err, anything?
222

Pink Sombrero,

17/07/2008 20:18:19
257. Haw Bird, found this pic of you....

http://dinosaurtheory.com/humming%20bird.jpg

you look like a tiny wee highly coloured thing to me
223

Jock Tamson,

Scotland, Caledonia, Alba 17/07/2008 20:18:50
255, Spook, you have missed the point. I was trying to warn him that cloners would have a field day logging in with the multi-option variations on the hard spaces available on his moniker.
224

Pink Sombrero,

17/07/2008 20:19:20
262. Good thing you didn't post how do that then, eh?
225

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17/07/2008 20:20:57
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226

Pink Sombrero,

17/07/2008 20:23:47
264. Man, you are a camp wee scavenger:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MT0hFXblpaM&feature=related
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Jock Tamson,

Scotland, Caledonia, Alba 17/07/2008 20:24:34
257, Bird, you are such a master of wit and repartee.

I thought you were suggesting I only had space between my ears. Now it's wax. Sure there is a light in there somewhere.
228

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17/07/2008 20:26:39
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229

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17/07/2008 20:28:31
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230

Pink Sombrero,

17/07/2008 20:29:06
269. Man he is butch compared to your tiny wee pastel coloured fluttering form...
231

,

17/07/2008 20:34:51
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232

Jock?Tam?&%$£%^son,

Scotland, Caledonia, Alba 17/07/2008 20:37:55
Dont think this will work
233

Jock?Tam?&%$£%^son,

17/07/2008 20:38:25
Dash, i will give it another try
234

,

17/07/2008 20:49:51
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235

Jock Tamson,

Scotland, Caledonia, Alba 17/07/2008 20:57:32
Well, there you go. See what you were saying in 265, Spook? You can always tell.

236

,

17/07/2008 20:58:58
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17/07/2008 21:00:03
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Jock Tamson,

Scotland, Caledonia, Alba 17/07/2008 21:04:32
278, Bird of Prey. One reorganises ones computer when one has a lost connection when one is being cloned in a certain fashion.

Now whatever happened to the clone posting with the extra space?
239

,

17/07/2008 21:09:32
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240

Jock Tamson,

Scotland, Caledonia, Alba 17/07/2008 21:10:01
ColB, 282, never trust a man who cannot name a pub.
241

Jock Tamson,

Scotland, Caledonia, Alba 17/07/2008 21:12:30
283, Bird of Prey. You do not make me feel naked or vulnerable. We all are anyway. Only a fool would think different.
242

Jock Tamson,

Scotland, Caledonia, Alba 17/07/2008 21:16:25
Tell you what, Bird of Prey, clone me again.
243

Eve,

Scotland 17/07/2008 21:16:43
What about min wage!!!

No one or few people seem to care that min wage doesnae go up as often as the price of living and goes up a lot less.

God sometime I think it's typical thoes who get payed more complain more when it comes to wages going up. I'm no saying they shouldn't get the pay raise to go with inflation I'm just saying they should be thankful there no on min wage.

And that min wage should go up with the price of living too. In fact it should be put up more because it's pay is relly a bit behind whats liveable on. I don't make much more than min wage and my wage isn't going up at all with the price of living. It's aoying because I want to get a flat of my own BUT cant afford it.
244

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17/07/2008 21:19:13
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245

Jock Tamson,

Scotland, Caledonia, Alba 17/07/2008 21:21:40
289, Meths. That'll be down to a weirdo posting.
246

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17/07/2008 21:22:47
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247

Eve,

Scotland 17/07/2008 21:24:31
#290 Dane Bramage SNP Insider: Don't read may post. Do you?
248

Jock Tamson,

Scotland, Caledonia, Alba 17/07/2008 21:26:18
290, Dame Branage, how you would be able to recognise a narcissisist?

Anyway, I would suggest to you that the Scotsman has reduced these forums to such trivia by way of it's dumbed down reporting.
249

Jock Tamson,

Scotland, Caledonia, Alba 17/07/2008 21:28:07
292, Bird of Prey.

Are you resorting to moral low ground already?
250

Eve,

Scotland 17/07/2008 21:31:28
#300 Methalions: Well done you made it in the end!
251

Jock Tamson,

Scotland, Caledonia, Alba 17/07/2008 21:32:50
ColB, 293, no thank you - I'll be asleep by 12 o'clock.

Sorry, thought that was a request.
252

Eve,

Scotland 17/07/2008 21:33:14
Oh well I'm bored with this am a wa to watch the telly!


Night all, Sweet dreams of Scottish Independence I wish you all!
253

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17/07/2008 21:34:46
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254

Jock Tamson,

Scotland, Caledonia, Alba 17/07/2008 21:35:59
301, Meths, the last time I heard inane ramblings was Mags Curran on Sunday.
255

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17/07/2008 21:38:55
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Jock Tamson,

Scotland, Caledonia, Alba 17/07/2008 21:39:54
306, Dame Branage. Maybe one is - hhfh.

No reflection on you, of course.
257

Jock Tamson,

Scotland, Caledonia, Alba 17/07/2008 21:41:24
309, Bird of Prey. You are still too immature to pan anyone.
258

Dane Bramage SNP Insider,

,Scotland, Caledonia, Alba 17/07/2008 21:43:21
Bird of prey this is how you fake
259

Dane Bramage SNP Insider­,

17/07/2008 21:46:12
When I am bored, and feeling edgey coz my methadone script is wearing off, I just come on here and post nonsense to see if I can get a response.
260

Jock Tamson,

Scotland, Caledonia, Alba 17/07/2008 21:47:10
313, ColB, he's just a Lance-Corpuscle
261

Dane Bramage SNP Insider,

,Scotland, Caledonia, Alba 17/07/2008 21:50:44
I am round round round neopolitan

back back back neopolitan

262

Dane Bramage SNP Insider­,

17/07/2008 21:51:27
317. You are doing a MacKaskill you fake
263

Dane Bramage SNP Insider­,

17/07/2008 21:52:08
I saw someone walking today. As I saw Winnie Ewing walking once, I thought to myself, aha, they are doing a Winnie.
264

Dane Bramage SNP Insider,

Scotland, Caledonia, Alba 17/07/2008 21:52:18
When im board i like to clone others and get them to name pubs that i made up
265

Dane Bramage SNP Insider­,

17/07/2008 21:53:18
320. They just make me worse,


I'm a million different monikers from one day to the next,

I can change, I can change
266

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17/07/2008 21:53:26
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267

Dane Bramage SNP Insider­,

17/07/2008 21:54:18
I sometimes fanatasise about being suckled by Jackie Baillie
268

Dane Bramage SNP Insider,

Scotland, Caledonia, Alba 17/07/2008 21:54:39
318 Me

back back back

tack tack tack

mack mack mack im a neapolitan
269

Jock Tamson,

Scotland, Caledonia, Alba 17/07/2008 21:55:35
321, Dame Branage, which boreding school were you sent to as a child?
270

Dane Bramage SNP Insider­,

17/07/2008 21:55:45
Sometimes I wonder if I could trick Alex Salmond into suckling at Jackie Baillie, and have at him while he was distracted?
271

Dane Bramage SNP Insider,

Scotland, Caledonia, Alba 17/07/2008 21:55:54
324

just call me jock
272

,

17/07/2008 21:57:36
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273

Dane Bramage SNP Insider,

Scotland, Caledonia, Alba 17/07/2008 21:57:45
327

Dyke-bar in Barrhead
274

Tarchin,

Lothian 17/07/2008 21:58:03
#197 Publius
I am not at all sure that an Independent Scotland would or could easily fund the present level of research in hospitals and universities/colleges.
My concern is the level of ignorance shown by politicians and clergy over many scientific matters. The science lobby is partly responsible in not explaining it aims more simply.
275

Dane Bramage SNP Insider­,

17/07/2008 21:58:27
I sometimes dream that I am suckling on George Foulkes. It is one of my favourite dreams. I do like a good suckle.
276

Dane Bramage SNP Insider­,

17/07/2008 22:00:07
330. I resemble that remark. You miss that as well as posting snide comments, tehy may also be on MSN having a good giggle at one's expense
277

Dane Bramage SNP Insider­,

17/07/2008 22:00:38
334. A nice long suckle on George Foulkes teats would sooth your sore head. It does mine
278

Dane Bramage SNP Insider,

17/07/2008 22:01:11
I am experiencing discomfort from hemroids and have no medication in the house what could you suggest?
279

Dane Bramage SNP Insider,

Scotland, Caledonia, Alba 17/07/2008 22:01:49
#338 Take a warm soaking bath. Dry thoroughly. Make a generous sized pad of cotton or toilet paper and soak it with witch hazel or Listerine and place it between your buttocks. The antiseptic will stave off infection and the pad will take the pressure off the hemorrhoids
280

Dane Bramage SNP Insider­,

17/07/2008 22:01:58
338. A good suckle on Jackie Baillie normally soothes my aches and sends me into a blissful snooze.
281

Dane Bramage SNP Insider,

Scotland, Caledonia, Alba 17/07/2008 22:02:52
I seem to be posting rather a lot tonight Meths

would you like to f i s t me
282

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17/07/2008 22:03:33
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283

Dane Bramage SNP Insider­,

17/07/2008 22:04:49
345, Damn you, you angry, bitter, wee thing. You missed your bitty of Bailley today didn't you?
284

Dane Bramage SNP Insider­,

17/07/2008 22:05:36
345. And what's more, then laugh about it and picture your wee ugly spotty napper in a tither of impotent angst
285

Dane Bramage SNP Insider,

Scotland, Caledonia, Alba 17/07/2008 22:06:47
#346

bitter he may be but can you name that pub in central Moscow with the big horse on the roof
286

Dane Bramage SNP Insider­,

17/07/2008 22:08:02
349. Is it called the "Pile of Horse Poo" bar?
287

Dane Bramage SNP Insider,

Scotland, Caledonia, Alba 17/07/2008 22:08:31
Dane Bramage SNP Insider what went wrong with your ciderman moniker ?
288

Dane Bramage SNP Insider,

17/07/2008 22:09:26
351

yeah he is ciderman/ paisley pete
289

Dane Bramage SNP Insider­,

17/07/2008 22:09:59
351. You know fine well we got him deleted then had a good laugh about it
290

Dane Bramage SNP Insider,

yeah he is ciderman/ paisley pete 17/07/2008 22:10:49
352
Well done Meths, now bend over and i will pop your cherry
291

Dane Bramage SNP Insider­,

17/07/2008 22:12:37
356. You know your wee bug poker couldn't pop a smartie never mind a cherry
292

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17/07/2008 22:13:01
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293

Dane Bramage SNP Insider,

Scotland, Caledonia, Alba 17/07/2008 22:14:00
My wife has a face that looks like a front female bottom
294

Dane Bramage SNP Insider­,

17/07/2008 22:14:30
358. LMAO. WHat a k no­b
295

,

17/07/2008 22:15:14
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296

Dane Bramage SNP Insider­,

17/07/2008 22:16:53
358. "investigated" ROTFL. WHat a k n o b b e r
297

Dane Bramage SNP Insider,

,Scotland, Caledonia, Alba 17/07/2008 22:17:08
358

gateways uk ? is that a supermarket
298

Dane Bramage SNP Insider,

17/07/2008 22:18:04
362

I am a silly c u n- t
299

Dane Bramage SNP Insider­,

17/07/2008 22:18:25
363. Yes, like a downmarket Morrisons I think. Why are you sending your posts through there? And are the SAS stationed outside "investigating" following my high level complaint that bad people are mocking me?
300

Jock Tamson,

Scotland, Caledonia, Alba 17/07/2008 22:18:47
there are 3 Dame Branages kicking about on this site and I think I know who 2 of them are.
301

Dane Bramage SNP Insider­,

17/07/2008 22:19:21
Edinburgh .ac.uk gateways and that is being investigated. Their degrees will be witheld when the seriousness of their offences becomes apparent.


LOL ROTFL Anyway, if I get nicked, I will just do a MacAskill
302

Dane Bramage SNP Insider­,

17/07/2008 22:20:49
368. I draw your attention to 367. Plus Mrs Salmond is dead old, so there.
303

Dane Bramage SNP Insider,

17/07/2008 22:21:06
365

I will speak to UCAS about this horrid and torrid abuse that i am taking My a n u s is on fire
304

Dane Bramage SNP Insider,

17/07/2008 22:22:13
366

Could you report them please
305

Dane Bramage SNP Insider­,

17/07/2008 22:22:24
370. I have already been on to the United Nations, Interpol and Crimestoppers about it. They are taking my complaints very seriously and there may be capital punishment for the abuse I am taking when "investigations" of Gateways.ac.uk is complete

306

Dane Bramage SNP Insider­,

17/07/2008 22:23:06
372. And get the United Nations Security Council to condemn their mockery of me
307

Dane Bramage SNP Insider,

,Scotland, Caledonia, Alba 17/07/2008 22:24:16
Dollies was gold but i think she was silver

clue? The name is in the game

No? Take a sample of grass and sent it into the wind
308

Dane Bramage SNP Insider­,

17/07/2008 22:28:09
372. Erm, ......





No, k n o b
309

Dane Bramage SNP Insider,

,Scotland, Caledonia, Alba 17/07/2008 22:29:14
NEWS NIGHTS ON. CALM DOWN EVERONE
310

Dane Bramage SNP Insider,

17/07/2008 22:33:06
380

Good Night Meths and thanks for you support
311

Dane Bramage SNP Insider­,

17/07/2008 22:35:16
381 Thanks for the mammaries
312

Conan the Librarian™,

17/07/2008 22:36:50
380
Hoos poos Meths, tinkle on the piano?
313

Jock Tamson,

Scotland, Caledonia, Alba 17/07/2008 22:38:12
Just counted 5 different Dame Branages.
314

Dane Bramage SNP Insider,

Scotland, Caledonia, Alba 17/07/2008 22:43:38
And if i include myself that will take the total to 6
315

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17/07/2008 22:46:04
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316

Conan the Librarian™,

17/07/2008 22:47:29
Amazing Jock.
Do you think it is organized?
317

Iainbroch,

Moray 17/07/2008 22:47:44
Never watch the EBC myself - Eras of experience tells me that its News coverage is biased to the core.
Even its non political coverage is patronising and insulting to the intelligence.
A bit like the Hootsman. I guess the average Weejee does not watch the EBC or read this squalid tabloid!
318

Jock Tamson,

Scotland, Caledonia, Alba 17/07/2008 22:52:41
389, Conan, I think it's time these students got some full time work and paid taxes.
319

Dane Bramage SNP Insider,

17/07/2008 22:55:10
388

Stick to counting sheep
320

Jock Tamson,

Scotland, Caledonia, Alba 17/07/2008 22:59:38
Spot the 2nd comma difference between 378 and 379.

So maybe there are 6 of them - who cares? They all spout the same garbage.

Time for bed.

Night all. (but I'm only saying it once, so all you clones have to share it)
321

AM2,

Scotland,UK 17/07/2008 23:00:48
#127 Hen Broon

Re: "You cannot shut me up AM2"

I wouldn't want to. Your posts repel people from your position.
322

Dane Bramage SNP Insider,

17/07/2008 23:01:27
400
323

Dane Bramage SNP Insider,

17/07/2008 23:01:35
400
324

Dane Bramage SNP Insider,

17/07/2008 23:01:52
400 FOR THE LABOUR PARTY
325

AM2,

Scotland,UK 17/07/2008 23:03:53
#177 Penicuik Laddie

Last year, John Mitchie was in favour of independence.

But in a statement issued today, he said: “On whether we should break up Britain, I agree with Margaret Curran that independence isn’t the best way forward for Scotland.”

So he’s changed his mind. What is so strange about that? Why is the SNP making such a song and dance about it? Some nationalist bloggers have even seen in it some kind of conspiracy, as if changing one’s mind is unthinkable to them.
326

Dane Bramage SNP Insider,

17/07/2008 23:05:01













lol
327

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17/07/2008 23:08:50
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328

AM2,

Scotland,UK 17/07/2008 23:09:24
#405 Dane Bramage

Stand at ease! Dismiss!
329

AM2,

Scotland,UK 17/07/2008 23:10:04
#406 Dane Bramage

Incoming court martial!
330

Dane Bramage SNP Insider,

17/07/2008 23:10:55
409

YES SIR
331

Conan the Librarian™,

17/07/2008 23:10:58
398
I know you only post as AM2, so I don't think you were any of the above posters.
Don't they repel you from the Unionist position?
332

AM2,

Scotland,UK 17/07/2008 23:12:05
#411 Conan

I'm watching Newsnight with a laptop on my knee. I haven't read them. Which posts, specifically?
333

Dane Bramage SNP Insider,

17/07/2008 23:14:53
412

YES SIR
334

Dane Bramage SNP Insider,

17/07/2008 23:15:27
AM2 is my master














YES SIR
335

Conan the Librarian™,

17/07/2008 23:20:11
290
Onwards. The impish impi's of Dane Bramages.

"Danes Sah! Fahsand's of em"
336

AM2,

Scotland,UK 17/07/2008 23:21:47
"proper socialist policies" - oxymoron of the day
337

AM2,

Scotland,UK 17/07/2008 23:24:26
Conan

Leaving aside party preference, how do you rank the main candidates in a hustings context? Here’s my impression:

1. Ian Robertson
2. Margaret Curran
3. John Mason
4. Davina Rankin
338

Conan the Librarian™,

17/07/2008 23:28:47
419
Proper Socialist policies mean that oaps don't freeze to death in an energy rich country, whilst one state paid oap lives in a selection of well heated palaces.
339

AM2,

Scotland,UK 17/07/2008 23:36:07
#423 Conan

No OAP should ever freeze to death, but the kind of "socialism" espoused by Solidarity and the like would damage our wealth-generating ability to such an extent that such problems would only increase.
340

Vladimir Ilyich,

Yuriatin 17/07/2008 23:38:32
Conan,

I take it you are acquainted with the work of Mr Pasternak, you old romantic?

341

Vladimir Ilyich,

Yuriatin 17/07/2008 23:43:59
AM2,

You really don't know how to "think outside of the box", do you?

I am a conservative, a christian, a trade union member, a capitalist and a socialist.

Oh, and I'm Scottish and British.

Such is the diversity of the human condition.



P.S. I'd publish my real name and address but some wuckfit on these boards would try to bully me.
342

AM2,

Scotland,UK 17/07/2008 23:53:47
#428 Col. BlimpIV*

You call everything negative the union dividend. Pure politicking.
343

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18/07/2008 00:02:23
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344

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19/07/2008 14:19:55
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