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Curran challenges SNP man to TV fight

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Published Date: 08 July 2008
MARGARET Curran was last night finally selected as the Labour candidate for the Glasgow East by-election – a race she only entered in an attempt to rescue her beleaguered party.
Ms Curran was the overwhelming choice of the members of the Glasgow East Labour Party who voted for her to become the candidate for the 24 July poll.

Within moments of being selected, Ms Curran challenged the SNP candidate in the contest, John Mas
on, to a live TV debate.

She said: "I am honoured to be selected to fight this seat for Labour.

"My opponent Councillor Mason says he's in politics for one reason only: to break up the United Kingdom. I'm in politics for a fundamentally different reason: to fight poverty and stand up for the people of the East End. That's what I've done all my life, and what I promise to keep on doing.

"Let me be clear: Labour's fightback starts right here, right now. I will fight and fight again for the people of the East End so here, on the steps of the selection meeting, I publicly challenge Councillor Mason to a live television debate – any time, any place."

The former communities minister and MSP for Glasgow Bailieston was on a shortlist with Doug Maughan, an airline pilot and Irene Graham, a former councillor for the Labour candidacy.

She now has to defend the 13,500 majority Labour won at the last election in what is expected to be a fierce battle with the SNP.

Ms Curran will launch Labour's campaign later today.

A spokesman for the Scottish Labour Party said: "Margaret is taking nothing for granted because she respects the people of the East End. If she wins this by-election, she will become the MP for Glasgow East.

"She will continue for a period as the MSP for Glasgow Baillieston, which is entirely contained in Glasgow East. She will draw only one salary and, unlike the First Minister, will operate only one constituency office.

"She will decide when to relinquish her duties as the MSP when she has discussed it with the local party and the wider community."

But Ms Curran was not the party's first choice as its candidate for Glasgow East.

This time last week, she was deliberating with colleagues whether or not she should go for the leadership of the Scottish Labour Party.

Then, last Friday night, Labour's by-election campaign imploded when George Ryan, the likely candidate, failed to turn up at his own selection meeting.

Gordon Brown, the Prime Minister, phoned Steven Purcell, the Labour leader of Glasgow Council, four times in an attempt to get him to run for the party in Glasgow East, but he refused.

It was only after two other potential candidates had been approached and refused to stand that the Scottish Labour Party put Ms Curran's name forward. She did not need a lot of arm twisting.

She had decided that her long-term prospects were better served as an MP – particularly as the MP of a safe Glasgow seat – rather than running, and probably failing, in the Scottish Labour leadership. On top of that was the knowledge that her constituency was going to be amalgamated with Glasgow Shettleston before the next Scottish election, leaving one of the two Labour MSPs without a seat.

Her big advantage is that she is already the MSP for Glasgow Baillieston, which covers a substantial chunk of the Glasgow East constituency.

She has stood in this area for the past two Scottish elections and won comfortably on both occasions. She knows the local activists, the area and a large number of the voters.

Ms Curran, 49, a mother of two who cut her teeth in student politics in the 1970s, may not be Labour's first choice, but there is a feeling in the party that she could turn out to be its best choice.



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1

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08/07/2008 00:02:51
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Colkitto,

River Clyde 08/07/2008 00:07:20
In your dreams #6 ha ha ha
3

Senga Jean,

08/07/2008 00:09:59
#1 I do not think so. The BBC bias is boiling your bile. I think the SNP is doing just fine and is the only party to have Scotland's interests at heart.
4

The Great Deception,

08/07/2008 00:12:05
Curran in shock TV profile raiser stunt.

Margaret Curran today challenged the SNP to help increase her profile in Westminster, after gaining Brown's attention she plans to run for leader in Scotland in a self-serving career move.

No wait, TV debates, the back bone of democracy, um... how many local tv stations does Glasgow have?
5

GW,

Peterhead 08/07/2008 00:12:22
Saw the interview but don't agree with your analysis. He explained that being a minority government meant he couldn't promise that all the manifesto could by put into effect. Seems a fair enough point to make!
6

,

08/07/2008 00:13:25
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08/07/2008 00:20:23
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,

08/07/2008 00:24:26
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08/07/2008 00:24:49
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Vivas,

Edinburgh 08/07/2008 00:25:11
#7... aye, Salmond is the most popular "2nd rate politician" in Scotland by a country mile. Theres not even a SLAB politician to be found with even 3rd rate abilities who can come close to besting him...
11

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08/07/2008 00:26:31
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Nikostratos,

08/07/2008 00:29:25
#7 number 6

Yes well ole Alex never did shine very well at Westminster by common consent of all the MPs.
The Westminster parliament was to big a stage for a wee Nationalist politician..........But then like most of them he wants to shrink his horizons to suit his modest talents.

by the way who is number 1 ?
13

European Scot,

08/07/2008 00:29:57
The more I read quotes like this one from Ms. Curran, " Let me be clear: Labour's fight-back starts right here, right now", and see comments like "balanced on a knife edge" in a previous article, the more it seems to me that Labour are building up, what is a foregone conclusion, into ' a close run thing.'
So when they get their pathetic little win, they can spin it up into a great victory for Brown and New Labour, " winning against all the odds.'
A seat that had a 13,500 majority, a close contest ?
Orchestration and choreography courtesy of New Labour.
Yet another big con !
14

,

08/07/2008 00:37:23
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15

Nikostratos,

08/07/2008 00:38:21
#13

If the snp do not win this seat it shows they are not the power in the Scottish nation they presume to be.

No they need to win more than Gordon needs to hold it.
Gordon losses a seat possibly a premiership the snp will lose a nation.........
16

Jock Tamson,

Scotland, Caledonia, Alba 08/07/2008 00:41:03
Number 4,The Great Deception, Glasgow has 2 local TV stations - BBC Scotland and STV.

That is why I cannot wait to miss a televised head to head to the death.
17

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08/07/2008 00:41:20
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18

European Scot,

08/07/2008 00:42:22
12 Nikostratos

" Yes well ole Alex never did shine very well at Westminster by common consent of all the MPs."

Amazing really how he won those two Political awards, beating such opposition.
By common consent of ......?
19

ThomasP,

08/07/2008 00:45:17
7 Number: 6.

I see that you are using that pathetic 'Labour lie' to ruin the SNP reputation.

Like I have said before, recruitment has increased, the Tories supported the SNP Budget if the target of police was ensured which it is.

Do you hear the Scottish Tories complaining? No?

The SNP must be within target afterall.
20

Jock Tamson,

Scotland, Caledonia, Alba 08/07/2008 00:45:50
15, Nikostratos, you appear to be gloating from the viewpoint of knowing that the by election date was rigged. If anyone overturns such a majority I hope you crrrrap hedgehogs backwards for a month.
21

ThomasP,

08/07/2008 00:47:28
15 Nikostratos.

The SNP do not have to win the seat. All they have to do is gain alot of support and maintain and increase that support by the next General Election.
22

Ned,

Morningside 08/07/2008 00:49:05
Ms Curran says she is going to fight poverty and stand up for the people of East End.
What have they actally done in that particular electorate ever. Curran and Labour are pathetic and i hope the good people send out a resounding message that labour dont deliver , dont care and dont really have a clue how to run this country.
I escaped from darkest Glasgow years ago and have no regrets.
Labour has only helped to keep Glasgow a slum. ( o.k. there are lots of good places to live in Glasgow . e.g Riddrie , Cathcart, and a few more but please NO MORE LABOUR ).
23

Andrew BOD,

Aberdeenshire 08/07/2008 00:52:43
15 ' Stratos

You've got to be kidding, right?

The third safest seat in Scotland, where generations have voted for the donkey with the red rosette because, well... they always have done. This seat is safer than Gordon Brown's, so your analysis as usual is way off mark.

Also, I don't think you know the distinction between MPs and MSPs. The SNP won't lose anything if they don't win this ultra safe seat. Conversely, if Labour retain it, and they damn well should, I'm sure the swing toward the SNP will give an indication of what the future holds for both parliament's. After all, Curran's MSP seat will be merged with another Labour seat anyway.

24

Nikostratos,

08/07/2008 00:53:25
#22

so the snp don't need to win seats then eh? good strategy you got there..must share that one with Alex.........Tell u wot Alex we will fight a the next election gain a lot of support but wont win any seats...Brillant Eh Alex Ouch! what did you kick me for.
25

subrosa,

08/07/2008 00:54:25
# 7

No. Alex Salmond showed himself as a person of patience and professionalism. Paxman just wouldn't let him answer the question. Look at the replay. Alex Salmond tried 3 times to reply but Paxman raged on. Auch was no contest. Salmond won hands down.
26

Guga II,

Rockall 08/07/2008 00:55:15
#1. You are a typical Unionist. You bring up irrelevant matters to try and move the discussion away from the topic in the article.

Why not stick to topic, namely the New Labour Sleaze and Corruption Party, and their (fourth) choice of some harridan to stand for election in Glasgow East.

She has the audacity to say that "I'm in politics for a fundamentally different reason: to fight poverty and stand up for the people of the East End." However, she fails to acknowledge that the people in Glasgow East, after 50 years of Labour mismanagement, are amongst the poorest and unhealthiest in the country.

Given that she's been involved in politics for around 35 years, she obviously hasn't bothered fighting too hard for the people of the "East End". No doubt, like the rest of the Labour Mafia, she has been too busy looking after her own interests, promoting her own career, feathering her own nest, and getting her snout well into the trough.

Her sole reason for standing in this by-election is because her own MSP seat of Baillieston is going to disappear, and she might not be selected to stand for the new amalgamated seat. Plus, of course, she is unlikely to have been selected as a replacement for The Mouth of the South. In other words, she is continuing to look after her own interests.

In the event that she does get elected, due to the votes from a number of people who would vote for a monkey wearing a red rosette, the people of Glasgow East will not be any better off than they are at the moment. She will be though.

27

subrosa,

08/07/2008 00:56:17
# 12

His shoe size.
28

ThomasP,

08/07/2008 00:57:07
25 Nikostratos.

If you had the sense you would of realised that votes for Nationalist Parties have grown over the years. They have not won seats but they have gained a larger share of the votes cast.

Now what do we have?

Wales and Scotland with their own Nationalist Governments.

This is a Labour strong-hold. It takes time to show these people that there are alternatives that are better and over time these people will begin to vote for different parties.

If the SNP gain the seat and then win the seat in the General Election (which is more important) then we can be sure the SNP will reach out to similar areas.
29

Nikostratos,

08/07/2008 00:57:29
#24 Andrew BOD,

Well who would believe it here is me a 'Unionist' expecting if the snp are as popular as they claim.

For them to win Glasgow east and the snp supporters are saying they can't win.....

its a funny ole world and no mistake
30

European Scot,

08/07/2008 00:58:37
15 Nikostratos

" No they need to win more than Gordon needs to hold it.
Gordon losses a seat possibly a premiership the snp will lose a nation........."

Even by your own standards that's pushing things a bit.
A seat with a 13,500 majority is not exactly an average target, a constituency with a traditional Labour voting population would be extremely difficult to sway.
So " the snp will lose a nation " what utter nonsense.
The amount the majority drops will be interesting though, unless of course you are expecting an increase.
31

,

08/07/2008 00:59:11
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32

Neil,

Glasgow 08/07/2008 01:09:07
Traditionally it is the challenger who is keen to debate.
33

Jock Tamson,

Scotland, Caledonia, Alba 08/07/2008 01:09:23
32, Copper, if you live in Borrowstounness why do you advertise yourself as coming from Falkirk?
34

,

08/07/2008 01:10:44
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Jock Tamson,

Scotland, Caledonia, Alba 08/07/2008 01:16:36
So, Copper, you have an identity crisis and refuse to address it?
36

Copper,

East Glasgow 08/07/2008 01:17:36

The SLABS are going to use every dirty trick

So when them you during the day

OUINK ..OUINK..OUINK Pigs at trough !!!

And if that does clear them from the streets of Glasgow plus a hand out of all the Lab Policos expenseses nothing will


37

Jock Tamson,

Scotland, Caledonia, Alba 08/07/2008 01:19:17
Falkirk joke about Bo'ness.

What does a Bo'ness girl use for protection when she is having sex?

A bus shelter.
38

Jock Tamson,

Scotland, Caledonia, Alba 08/07/2008 01:21:03
I can flush them out.
39

karinxxx,

08/07/2008 01:22:59
the story of councillor ryan..........

In 1999 he was caught-up in a council investigation into claims of housing benefit fraud. It was reported at the time that he had been named as the landlord of a woman living in a house occupied by his father. The woman, who Ryan described as “a friend”, received thousands of pound of public money over the course of a year — even though investigators allegedly found no evidence that she was living at the house. He was subsequently cleared of any wrongdoing, but Labour feared that the episode could prove embarrassing.

Had he been selected, Labour were also concerned that, as former head of the council’s personnel and administration committee, he had suggested that the Union Jack be excluded from citizenship ceremonies because it had sectarian connotations and God Save the Queen should be banned because it was offensive to some Scots. In the end Ryan, who has long coveted the seat, withdrew from the contest,citing family pressures.
40

Iainbroch,

Moray 08/07/2008 01:25:48
re 1

Oink! Oink! Oink1 Oink!
41

VoteoutLibLabConTraitors,

morningside 08/07/2008 01:31:12
Curran looked and sounded a bit scary on tv tonight. Is that the best that Labour can put up to save Brown ?
And what a dump East Glasgow looks after donkeys years of Labour rule. Imagine if the cash from wars in Iraq and Afghanistan and the ID scheme and NHS computers and Nuclear weapons and selling off the gold and a million public sector workers had been used to help East Glasgow. What a brighter healthier place it would be.
42

Huntly loon,

Aberdeenshire 08/07/2008 01:32:56
Margaret Curran says she will only have one constituency office unlike Alex Salmond. Well that is not entirely the true position. The office which Alex Salmond has the use of in Peterhead is Stewart Stevenson MSP for Banff & Buchan's office. The First Minister has his office in Inverurie.

There is also a big difference between an urban and rural seat in respect of the area that is covered and the distances for a constituent to travel.

So if she is going to have one office then it is one more than the retiring MP had, unless she wishes to use his front room and make use of the services of his wife which cost the taxpayer some £500,000 to run.

She also accused the SNP candidate of being in politics only to break up the United Kingdom. In the meantime he seems to have done an awful lot as councillor in the past ten years and his constituents seem to like what he is doing as councillor for Baillieston since he got elected on the first ballot with over 50% of the vote.
43

Copper,

Bo'ness 08/07/2008 01:37:37
My life has been fairly prominent and active in politics some time ago but has never been in my fairly long life other than

SCOTLAND FIRST

Served in the Army on National Service
Lived in London
Walked the streets making new members of the SNP
Twice having my own business waisted by English Financial Restraints
Worked in the oil industy and knowing that Scotland floats in oil

And still knowing from KNOWLEDGE

SCOTLAND FIRST

44

Iainbroch,

Moray 08/07/2008 01:45:40
So Curran wants a TV fight!

Bring it on! Bring it on!

She is out of control already!Will have to put an adult certificate on this one though!She will scare everyone of immature years?

Oink Oink! Oink Oink!
45

Nikostratos,

08/07/2008 01:52:58
Oink Oink! Oink Oink



who let the pigs out?
46

The Great Deception,

08/07/2008 01:55:09
Curran is shamelessly trying to bring herself to the attention of the Labour parties top brass by wanting a TV debate.

We associate TV debates firstly with America and secondly with American party leaders. Clearly Curran fancies a spot of reflective glory. Pathetic.

I think she'll get defeated, people want to give Brown a bloody nose. The SNP will win, but lose their seat at the next general election.
47

Raj Persaud's ghost writer,

08/07/2008 01:55:49
Just watched Newsnicht on I player. A couple of interesting points I noticed.

1. Michael Crick said all the canvassers were usning margaret Curran as the candidate before selection had taken place.

2. did anyone notice the "entourage" behind her at her acceptance speech? I have seen sheep herded into position with more grace (I think a man had a gun off camera!)
3. Michael crick mentioning the level of the vote 42-2? Burmese style election results these days in labour?



48

Huntly loon,

Aberdeenshire 08/07/2008 02:13:24
Who were the 2 who voted against Curran? Was it Maughan and Graham the two other candidates voting for themselves.

The 13000 majority is a bit of a red herring. Is it not more sensible to look at the 2007 results. In Baillieston Holyrood seat Labour (Curran) got 9141 (53%) SNP 5207 (30%) of 16684 total votes. In the Baillieston council seat SNP (Mason) got 3199 (31%) of the first preference votes and topped the poll of 11 candidates. Total votes 10,376. The SNP strength looks more like 30% in 2007. A lot has changed in the last year. I reckon only a swing of around 10-12% is needed to thake Glasgow East for the SNP not the 22% mentioned. I think they are already half way there to take the seat.
49

The Great Deception,

08/07/2008 02:14:11
48

Yes rent-a-mob made me laugh too.

Did you see Alex Salmond refuse to answer the question? That was another unmistable highlight of the programme, it was as good as a full scale admission that he never expected to be elected and have to deliver his manefesto.

Alex Salmond disgraced himself, he is an embarassment to accountability and honest communication with Scotland.
50

The Great Deception,

08/07/2008 02:16:10
49 Huntly Loon

No, it is not more sensible to look at percentages. It assumes the same people will come out to vote. What will happen is voter apathy, Labour voters will wash their hands and stay at home.

Labour will lose this seat, although Salmond won't acknowledge that, he'll claim it is SNP magic.
51

Raj Persaud's ghost writer,

08/07/2008 02:19:55
#50 - i was more enraged at Paxmouths sneering denegration of the role of First Minister in his introduction.

1. SNP has had 1 year so far.Policies are on the term of parliament.

2. SNP have no majority in parliament due to the differences in electoral systems.

3. Labour scuppered the polis and class sizes plan by voting thru trams

4. After elction Snp found Gordon trying to yusurp democracy by shortchanging us of 1.8 billion quid.


52

The Great Deception,

08/07/2008 02:33:09
52

Thanks for that. And for the record, I heard Salmond say all that too.

But did you hear him commit to delivering his manifesto over the course of the parliament?
53

Raj Persaud's ghost writer,

08/07/2008 02:35:37
#53 -Given the sculdugerous games LAbour and the Lib dems have played so far regarding the lack of majority vote like westminister. Would you agree with a rule book like that? I guess his only hope is to plod on and try.
54

Edward,

08/07/2008 02:36:39
Newsnight interviewed a shopkeeper in Glasgow East who was a card carrying labour member. Nothing unusual perhaps, but after showing his Labour membership card to the camera, then went on to state that he hopes that labour get a 'bloody nose' and was endorsing the LibDems! David Cairns , who was in the studio didnt have an answere on that. But did continue to lie about Margaret Curran being first choice, even when it was pointed out to him that there had been others in front of her (actually at least FOUR others!) denied it and said you cant believe what you read in papers!
Then Cairns continued with statements such as the SNP have not said when they will have a referendum on Independence stating that the SNP will choose a date that suites the SNP. Found that breath taking that a UK Government minister can be so ignorant or devoid of factual information. Cairns was questioned about Curran, if she wins, will she give up her MSP seat. He was again obscure and stated that it would 'probably' happen, in other words not anytime soon
Paxman did give Alex Salmond a hard time, which was interesting from the point that they were supposed to be discussing a UK Parliamentary by election, brought on by the sitting member being caught up in sleaze, and should have been more about the UK government performance and not the Scottish government performance. But Alex Salmond dealt with the Scottish Government performance questions fairly effectivly
55

Edward,

08/07/2008 02:44:44
'My opponent Councillor Mason says he's in politics for one reason only: to break up the United Kingdom. I'm in politics for a fundamentally different reason: to fight poverty and stand up for the people of the East End.'
Oh dear Margaret Curran - Labour have been in power in Scotland for over 50 years, at council and uk level
Labour were in power at Holyrood for EIGHT years until May last year
In all that time Labour did not bother to fight poverty
which is why Glasgow East is such a mess. Why male mortality is lower that what you would find in the Gaza strip!
Glasgow East is a Labour legacy,its a disgrace pure and simple. All the guff about regeneration is pathetic as its too little too late
At least with the Scottish Government and the SNP are making a go of it, they are fighting for Scotland and standing up for the Scottish people
What are Labour doing? aprt from lining there own pockets and ensuring that they have £ 24000 shoping expenses at John Lewis. Which its noted is more than some Glasgow East families earn in a year!
56

frank mcbride,

lusitania 08/07/2008 02:45:48
# Niko.

I agree.

You're brilliant.
57

Edward,

08/07/2008 02:47:11
So Curran challenges the SNP candidate to a TV debate
Very brave of her
Hopefully BBC Scotland or STV can accomadate. Frankly Im sure John Mason will wipe the floor with her!
58

Edward,

08/07/2008 02:52:29
I can just imagine a TV debate with Margaret Curran
she will continue with the Labour spin mantra that the 'SNP to break up the United Kingdom' and ignore the fact that Labour have continously ignored the east end of Glasgow
Hopefully she can shed some light on the departing MP as to wether he will repay the half a million in taxpayers money he has defrauded, or perhaps she can state whats she going to buy for herself at John Lewis
59

frank mcbride,

lusitania 08/07/2008 03:01:24
# 40, Karin......

Anent your 2nd para., I could be classed in that same catagory.

Elizabeth (1/2) Battenburg, Saxe-Coburg-Gothe (Windsor) means nothing to me.
60

indune1,

Canada 08/07/2008 03:11:50
40 - Hello there Karin.
61

Neil Waugh,

Old Strathcona 08/07/2008 03:12:14
So the Wicked Witch of the East (Glasgow) wants a tellie debate. Every pub TV will be tuned to in, fer sure. No Coronation Street that night.
Chr!st you can't make this sh!t up. Oh please BBC, let her have her half hour whine in front of the big eye. If it's anything like Mad Magga's You Tube rant there won't be a dry eye in the house.
It just keeps getting better and better.
I gotta stop laughing before I p!ss myself. This is too much.
62

donald,

glasgow 08/07/2008 05:05:06
Someone should tell the Labour candidate that the TV will only televise a debate with all of the other candidates present. Does anyone remember a by election candidate refusing to go EV, thus saving the Labour Little Red Monkey in a rosette from making a further fool of himself publicly?

Bring it on. I sure the audience will be impressed by Labour's record in the East End of Glasgow, as they will by the sudden revelation that John Mason is out to smash the Evil Empire.
63

,

08/07/2008 05:19:40
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64

Pilrig.,

Livingston 08/07/2008 05:42:34
23 -excellent points
65

somerferg,

perth 08/07/2008 05:58:04

#56 - good post :) and true. Hope the voters of the east end also see Liebour for what they are.
66

Colin Wilson,

Aberdeen 08/07/2008 06:27:52
"My opponent Councillor Mason says he's in politics for one reason only: to break up the United Kingdom. I'm in politics for a fundamentally different reason: to fight poverty and stand up for the people of the East End."

That's a false choice that Curran is offering. The former is not an alternative to the latter. It's a prerequisite.
67

Jim A A,

oban 08/07/2008 06:45:21
I wonder how short the life expectancy of the Glasgow East electorate would be today if they hadnt hadthe good fortune to have labour fighting their corner for the past 50 years.
68

Traquir , Alba,

08/07/2008 06:52:53
Perhaps we should pick some topics for Ms Curran's
TV battle which are of importance to the Glasgow East area such as drug use which is a huge problem -

March 2001 - Ms Curran:

"I have to tell Mr Sheridan that he is not listening to the ordinary people of Glasgow if he thinks that cannabis is not a problem. I will take Mr Sheridan to my constituency and show him the serious consequences of young people taking cannabis and then mixing it with other illegal drugs. Mothers Against Drugs will tell Mr Sheridan categorically, as they have told me, that the way that cannabis is used on the streets in Glasgow leads to extremely risky behaviour, to very serious problems"

see - tinyurl.com/6z4sgq

Sounds like a very admirable stance, but
apparently somewhat hypocritical :

"At one point, acting as executive spokesperson, she delivered an emotive speech against the legalisation of cannabis during a debate on this issue, which surprised some people who knew that she had smoked the substance herself when she was a student."

see - tinyurl.com/584o6j

Daily Record, October 21, 1999

"LABOUR'S dope-smoking nightmare worsened last night over claims that more of their MSPs want to legalise cannabis."

"And MSPs Cathie Peattie, Cathy Jamieson and Margaret Curran were also said to have backed the move in a survey for the Big Issue magazine."

"Jamieson and Curran also hit out at the survey and claimed their names were not supposed to have been revealed."

see - tinyurl.com/6duuzy
69

Concerned local,

Edinburgh 08/07/2008 07:10:59
Is the NuLiebour Party now in charge of setting TV schedules?
70

Rev. S. Campbell,

Bath 08/07/2008 07:24:37
#53 "But did you hear him commit to delivering his manifesto over the course of the parliament?"

Oh do grow up, you twit. Paxman was dire last night, no matter which side you support. If you're SNP it was a ridiculous performance, lazily asking the same idiotic question over and over again trying to make a minority-government leader promise something that isn't within the power of ANY minority-government leader, by definition.

If you're a Brit Nat, on the other hand, it was just as terrible, letting Salmond off the hook about the SPECIFIC pledges in the manifesto which have already been definitely abandoned, eg the £2000 for first-time buyers, and instead letting him get away with a vague non-answer (that was still the best one any MINORITY government leader could truthfully give).

The question was pointless and meaningless and unanswerable, and wasted a huge chunk of the time that could have been better spent properly interrogating both men, but Paxman just kept repeating it because that's his party trick. It was the equivalent of "Have you stopped beating your wife? Have you stopped beating your wife? Have you stopped beating your wife?" Both sides of the debate deserved better.
71

Richard Taylor,

Aberdeen 08/07/2008 07:28:56
"Curran challenges SNP man to TV fight"

Hmmm.....two too many letters there I think.
72

,

08/07/2008 07:33:02
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73

Raj Persaud's ghost writer,

08/07/2008 07:33:56
She looks like a matriarch in a loan shark dynasty. Perhpas that's Labours strategy? Send her round to folks doors threatening to "call it in" if they don't vote for her.
74

Truely English,

08/07/2008 07:49:38
Why should God Save The Queen be offensive to the Scots, they did sing it for 250 years as a Celebration as part of the work of the Empire which they were involved in up to their necks.

Culturally and linguistically we all shared the riches of the Empire through being English/ScotsBritish and still do today; thankfully.
75

john z,

edinburgh 08/07/2008 07:54:31
Would it be impolite to ask who is funding the Curran campaign for Labour??

Or is it all being deftly handled by bendy wendy and thon big lassie baillie??
76

john z,

edinburgh 08/07/2008 07:56:24
Number 77,

God, you're such a vessel.
77

Phil C,

08/07/2008 07:58:58
The Labour party is like an angry child trying to land a punch on their dad, who's holding their head at arms length. Punches swing all over the place, but none land.

Someone should give Curran a paper bag with folk like Number:6 in it. She wouldn't even manage to fight her way out of that one.
78

roughrider,

Glasgow 08/07/2008 07:59:15
77 Truely English.
mibee the verse.
"With rebellious Scots to crush "
Has something to do with it.
79

The Federalist (the poster formerly know as NAUON),

08/07/2008 07:59:22
If the SNP manage to win surely it would be the first time that a mason has been elected in the east end of Glasgow?
80

gus1940,

Edinburgh 08/07/2008 08:03:00
Any chance of Paxman getting a chance of having a go at Curran?

In the interest of political balance it seems logical to me.
81

Duncan in Edinburgh /,

08/07/2008 08:08:16
#76 I take it you are quite comfortable with the Nats on Angus Council ignoring their local development plan and getting into bed with a well-known supermarket chain - despite many local objections.

Or Der Fuhrer cosying up to that snake Trump?
82

Saoghal Beag,

08/07/2008 08:09:08
77 well you need to steal all the culture you can, having nothing much of your own to speak of. there is only so much scrumpy and wurzels a body can take. shame you just can't get your little head round the difference between language and culture.

but tell us, can you see day light between the cracks in the bridge above your head?
83

gus1940,

Edinburgh 08/07/2008 08:09:20
We are told that David Marshall claimed £500,000 in expenses over the last 6 years.

I understand that he has been an MP for about 30 years.

Is it possible to obtain details of his expenses claims for the whole of his time as an MP?

If they are similar to the last 6 years this fine upstanding horny-handed son of Labour and his family must be a multi-millionaires.
84

,

08/07/2008 08:16:31
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
85

Gdgy,

dundee 08/07/2008 08:16:54
Now froma less biased view....

Curran stepped in when the expected candiadte was told by his partnr that it wasn't on so her late arrival is not her fault...
And if the SNP have any evidence to back up their whispering campaign against the retiring Labour MP they should take it to the police...but we have alredy seen that the SNP are very keen on spreading muck....
86

Louis Catorze,

08/07/2008 08:19:30
Fight fight fight fight fight fight.....!!!
87

JayJay,

Right here 08/07/2008 08:23:04
You would think that the revelations of the behaviour of the former MP (still no word of an investigation into his conduct then?) would be a huge signal to the locals that they's better be careful where they put their tick in a box. You would imagine that the smell from the Housing Benefit'gate scandal of Labour's first choice Mr Ryan might give a further clue as to the calibre of the characters trying to "Make Poverty History" in the East End (who "cleared" this guy anyway? The very brief paragraph summarising the tale seems to me to be awfy ropey).
But, as if their eyes weren't red enough from years of poking from the party of the people, Ms Curran pops up to remind them, in case they had got so rich and well off that they had forgotten, that only NuLab "fight poverty and stand up for the people of the East End."
It is indeed a good idea for all other parties to fight a campaign on NuLab's record of achievement in Glasgow's East End. Perhaps Maggie could enlighten us by posting a long list of all the things she and NuLab have achieved over the past 10 years for the ordinary Joe at Parkhead Cross? What a long list that would be!
88

Linda,

Edinburgh 08/07/2008 08:24:53
Mrs Curren's voting record on behalf of Glasgow East over last 12 months...

17th April 2008 - Voted against scrapping the Council Tax which soared
by 60% under Labour before the SNP froze it.

• 20th March 2008 - Voted to hamper councils building new council houses
by not restricting right to buy legislation which has seen council house
building plummet. Between 2004 and 2006 a grand total of only 6 houses
were been built by Local Authorities in Scotland.

• 28th February 2008 - Voted against scrapping the graduate endowment
tuition fee for students.

• 6th January 2008 - Failed to support a freeze on the Council Tax.
(Abstained)

• 6th January 2008 - Failed to support record spending for local
authorities. (Abstained)

• 6th January 2008 - Failed to support reducing prescription charges - a
tax on the ill. (Abstained)

• 6th January 2008 - Failed to support 1000 extra police officers on
Scotland's streets- there will 750 extra in Strathclyde. (Abstained)

• 27th September 2008 - Voted against new patient rights.

• 14th June 2007 - Failed to oppose billions being wasted on weapons of
mass destruction.

• 27th June 2007 - Voted to spend half a billion pounds on a tram line in
Edinburgh - money which could, in part be spent on key transport
objectives in Glasgow
89

LEAL,

08/07/2008 08:29:17
Curran is going to have a tough job convincing the voters of Glasgow East to support the Labour Party yet again.I think that very few of them will turn out for this election.
Labour can hold on to this seat if they can keep a lid on the Marshall fraud allegations,but with a very much reduced majority.We have seen the SNP winning byelections in the Labour heartland before,and perhaps read to much into the result.I'd be interested to see what difference,if any,all the campaigning makes to the opinion polls on the independence question.A negative campaign by Labour may help them retain Glasgow East,but will probably increase support for independence accross the rest of the country.
90

Linda,

Edinburgh 08/07/2008 08:35:06
What the SNP has done for Glasgow East..

• Prescription charges - The SNP Government has cut the cost of prescription charges by a QUARTER – the first step to making them FREE by 2010. And people who suffer from chronic or long-term conditions and cancer will benefit from an immediate cut of 50% in the cost of prescription pre-payment certificates (PPCs)

• Council Tax Frozen: Under Labour, between 1996-97 and 2007-08 Council Tax in Glasgow rose by 51% and the city now has the second highest Council Tax in Scotland. The SNP Government secured a deal with Local Authorities, including Glasgow, to freeze Council Tax for 2008/09 and is moving to scrap the Council tax – benefiting 72% of Glasgow residents.

• Businesses Helped Local Business is at the heart of regeneration in the East End. To help improve the local economy, the SNP Government is reducing or abolishing business rates for almost 16,000 businesses in Glasgow through the Small Business Bonus.

• Commonwealth Games Legacy: The SNP Government is funding 80% of the costs of the Commonwealth Games and is ensuring a lasting legacy for the games with investment in youth sports facilities and following pressure from the SNP Government, the Big Lottery Fund have announced a '2014 Communities' fund to ensure a lasting legacy from the Commonwealth Games – starting with half a million in 2008/09.

• Regeneration: The Fairer Scotland Fund will invest over £150m in Glasgow alone over the next 3 years. Also, the Clyde Gateway regeneration scheme, which spans Glasgow and South Lanarkshire, has been awarded £62 million by the SNP Government.

• Central Heating Programme - The SNP Government has increased installations of central heating systems from 13,500 a year under the previous administration to nearly 15,000 a year – the highest number ever.

• Increase in police numbers: Thanks to the SNP's commitment to delivering 1000 extra police, Strathclyde Police has the funds to increase their number of officer
91

Bob M,

08/07/2008 08:40:40
#1 - What was your verdict on David Cairns performance?
If Paxman tore Salmond "up for Ass paper", I'd say Cairns was torn up and recycled at least twice.

92

Linda,

Edinburgh 08/07/2008 08:43:48
More SNP action for Glasgow East voters..
Crime Cut in East Glasgow under the SNP: The Enhanced Policing Plan (EPP), a Strathclyde Police led initiative funded by the SNP Government's Community Regeneration Fund, has seen crime drop significantly since its launch in October 2007. Within six months crime levels have dropped significantly in Sprinboig, Barlanark and Greenfield (24%); Parkhead (22%); Shettleston/Tollcross (10%) and Wellhouse (10%).

• Tackling Gangs: In Government the SNP has invested an additional £200,000 to tackle gang violence and territorialism with over £16,000 going into support Strathclyde police's anti-gang work in Easterhouse.

• Cash back for Communities: This SNP Government scheme uses money taken from organised criminals and reinvests it in youth projects in deprived areas. Projects in and around Glasgow East are already benefiting from the scheme: Cranhill Arts Project has received £4,730 in funding; The Sound Lab has received £11,827; and Reidvale Adventure Play Association has been awarded £4,812.

• Hospitals: The SNP Government has provided £842 million of public money to replace the Southern General Hospital, which previous Labour Government's had neglected. Also, one of the very first actions of the SNP upon becoming the Government was to save the Accident and Emergency department at nearby Monklands.

• Free Personal Care: The SNP initiated the first increase in Free Personal Care Payments in line with inflation, and invested an extra £40m to meet shortfalls in the service. In contrast Labour in Westminster refused to return attendance allowance to Scotland.

• Bus Travel Concessionary Fares: The SNP Government has increased support for bus travel with extra funding of £12m over the next three years. Funding for bus transport is 31% higher per capita in Scotland under the SNP than in England and Wales under Labour and the SNP Government has announced plans to extend the scheme for injured veterans in recognition of thei
93

Edward,

08/07/2008 09:10:04
I noticed a report on the BBC last night that Labour having relied on Glasgow East as a Labour voting machine (ergo pin a red rosette on a monkey, they would vote the monkey)that Labour dont actually have a list of Labour voters / supporters in the area as they have never had to have one in the past. Now they are ruching to actually find out for themselves who voted labour last time around and can they rely on their continued suport etc etc.
Perhaps they can start with the corner shop man, whi is a card carrying Labour member, who actually will be supporting the Libdems 'to give Labour a bloody nose' (as seen on last nights Newsnight)
94

Fairfax,

08/07/2008 09:26:57
roughrider (83): "mibee the verse.
"With rebellious Scots to crush "
Has something to do with it."

That verse has not been part of God Save the Queen since the mid-18th century. Still, I know how you feel: as an Englishman visiting Scots friends, I really don't enjoy "Proud Edward's Army,/ And sent him homeward,/ Tae think again."
95

Miss H,

08/07/2008 09:36:27
Margaret Curran’s attitude displays all the arrogance that has been Labour’s downfall. Firstly it is not within her power to organise a live TV debate. The Labour Party does not actually control broadcasting output in Scotland, though at times I can see why they might think they do. Secondly, she says that she ‘challenges’ John Mason to a debate as though he’s not willing to do it – John will be more than happy to do it. I suspect she and her campaign team are thinking along the lines of well he’s a local councillor and therefore won’t be up to debating with one of Labour’s top rank MSPs. They couldn’t be more wrong, as she will find out.

101 That is a good point – I find it incredible that Labour have NO historic canvass data in Glasgow East at all. Even more incredible is that they allowed that news to slip out. They are using their Newcastle call centre to phone people and there are very few activists to be seen on the ground.

As for the comments about Paxman and Salmond. That was the kind of boring, aggressive and pointless interview that puts people off politics. The public are sick of Paxman-style interviewers who see themselves as the star of the show. The sooner political journalists get back to what they are supposed to do – putting the questions the public want to ask and giving politicians the chance to answer them – the better. That is what public service broadcasting should be about – educating and informing people not some kind of gladiatorial combat.
96

Grahamski,

Falkirk 08/07/2008 09:46:45
100
Niko makes a fair point. Like many an ego before him, Mr Salmond couldn't bear the fact he was irrelevant at Westminster. He is also correct to point out that by common consent (ie Labour members, ie the majority of the house) he was an abject failure. Gesture politics don't work at Westminster and whenever he tried to indulge on those he was slapped down. That doesn't play well with somebody as self-regarding as Mr Salmond.
Make no mistake, he was desperate to get away from Westminster, it was way too big for him. So now he's in Holyrood trying his best to trash the place. However time is running out for him. With both him and his deputy being hammered on BBC within a week the people are going to see the emperor truly is wearing no kilt
First we had Nicola's by now famous impression of a rabbit caught in the headlights on Question Time last week. Then we had wee Alex caught out by Paxman last night realising that the empty bombast wasn't going to work. So all Mr Salmond could do was lamely say that he was working his way frew the manifesto...what a deceitful wee weasel.....
97

Auckland Arab2,

08/07/2008 09:47:53
While I wouldn't dream of telling the good folks of Glasgow East how to vote, I would ask them to examine the record of 11 years of Labour Govt and how much exactly they have delivered for their own people in that constituency? I would also ask them to examine the record of what is it 50 years of Labour respresenting their constituency and ask what exactly has that delivered for them.

This lie that somehow only Labour look after the interests of areas such as this has been spun for decades. With what results? Well the recently published health figures tell the true story - the worst health record in Europe and an average lifespan of 14 years!!!!! below the national average. Well, sign me up for life - if that is how Labour look after their own people god help us all.

Wake up Glasgow East, we are no longer at war with EastAsia!
98

Truely English,

08/07/2008 09:52:07
77
Since their is so little culture or cultural expression in Scotland that is not in English I would have thought that you would have been a bit more mild mannered.

You must realise that when you speak English you are part of the English language and culture no matter how much you try and deny this fact.

Why are Scottish people deluding themselves that they do not speak English and are part of the English/British culture.

So please tell us is the BBc part of English culture as it certainly broadcasts in English.

99

boudica,

Glasgow 08/07/2008 09:53:54
And Natz and LibDems handing over Prime Land to Trump for 5 Million as a wee taster ...is that okay then ?
100

M.Corleone,

2nd Vatican State...... Coatbridge 08/07/2008 09:54:33
#104
Funny that he was voted Parliamentarian of the year in Westminster a wee while back; strange for a man who is desperate to get away and can't hack it !

You really need to get a life there Bairn; it's a shame you can't see past the likes of Broon, Alexander, Blair and Foulkes....what a back 4 eh? Even Yogi Hughes would give that lot a free transfer.

How did you rate Denis Canavan by the way?
101

Truely English,

08/07/2008 09:55:26
102
Even Flower of Scotland is sung in English.
How much more English can you get?

So where is there any Scottish culture to be found?
102

Mikey,

08/07/2008 10:01:58
Nikostratos,08/07/2008 00:29:25

by the way who is number 1 ?

Dunno, but No.6 was a second rate wee fag. Much like this poster....
103

M.Corleone,

2nd Vatican State..... Coatbridge 08/07/2008 10:04:40
#106
What is this?
#79
Let's forget about that Saint Andrew anyway; who wants a holiday or a patron Saint; just leave it to George and the dragon.....Oh I forgot; she's resigned
104

boudica,

Glasgow 08/07/2008 10:04:51
Since 2001 till present day ..Alec Salmond has claimed
£ 815.692..on his Westminster Expenses how much of that has he paid to his family ?
105

boudica,

Glasgow 08/07/2008 10:05:45
And that sum does not include his wages ?
106

Alan B,

08/07/2008 10:06:44
As chancellor of the uk gordon brown had 10yrs to transform this area of glasgow. He didn't. He did not even fail as he did not try. Brown sold scotland out so that he could build support for his own chances of being prime minister.

The biggest joke was Cairns on newnight. He tried to make out the east end of glasgow had been transformed under labour. We all know that has not exactly happened. Packman who takes it as an insult to his english nationalism that scotland may vote for independence decided to give the guy a free ride.
107

Skyrat,

Edinburgh 08/07/2008 10:09:25
"I'm in politics for a fundamentally different reason: to fight poverty and stand up for the people of the East End. That's what I've done all my life, and what I promise to keep on doing."

Considering that Glasgow East is one of the biggest holes in the country, with a high poverty rate, it doesn't seems like you've done a very good job, does it hen? And you will keep on doing it, if elected? God help them. No, you'll be worth half an MP and half an MSP. Surely the people of your constituency deserve a full time MP AND MSP?
108

M.Corleone,

2nd Vatican State..... Coatbridge 08/07/2008 10:09:29
#109
The history of the English language really started with the arrival of three Germanic tribes who invaded Britain during the 5th century AD.....Remeber Black Adder..."I'm as English as Queen Victoria !!"
109

boudica,

Glasgow 08/07/2008 10:11:12
If as I beleive all the natz will shout no way ..here is the link http://www.theyworkforyou.com/mp/alex_salmond/banff_and_buchan#travel2007

Gordon Brown Claimed £736.216 for the same period no wonder Wee Eck has been so quiet on this subject eh!!!
110

subrosa,

08/07/2008 10:14:03
'The Great Deception, 08/07/2008 02:14:11
48

Yes rent-a-mob made me laugh too.

Did you see Alex Salmond refuse to answer the question?'

The question was ridiculous. "Why haven't you fulfilled your manifesto promises?" Jings we're not even half way through the four year term and Paxman is asking this! Stupid man. Absolutely stupid. Plus of course the way he kept shouting "Say yes" and not letting Alex Salmond answer.

I commend Alex Salmond's professionalism by not getting up and taking him by the scruff of the neck.

111

MisterN,

Scotland 08/07/2008 10:15:01
Is this another "Bring it on"?

What happened to the last one?

Oh thats right it was forced to resign.

Liebour the party that never learns from its mistakes.
112

boudica,

Glasgow 08/07/2008 10:15:10
Alan B ...In Glasgow the first area to be regenerated was Castlemilk once known as the Biggest and Worst |Housing Scheme in Europe and that had been transformed now as are several other Areas ..The East End as some others had to wait ..that wait is now over and it was down to labour as Wee Eck and the Natz tried their damndest to put the Mockers on any regeneration of the East End ..but once again Labour in the Opposition with the help of others did allow him too ..
113

MisterN,

Scotland 08/07/2008 10:17:28
119

Do you think Liebour may be dragging its heals over the leadership election because they are feared their new leader may be interviewed on TV?
114

boudica,

Glasgow 08/07/2008 10:19:23
( Correction )Labour and the in the Opposition DID NOT allow him to do that ..
115

MisterN,

Scotland 08/07/2008 10:21:31
121

"Alan B ...In Glasgow the first area to be regenerated was Castlemilk once known as the Biggest and Worst |Housing Scheme in Europe and that had been transformed now as are several other Areas ..The East End as some others had to wait"

OVER 50 YEARS?

"that wait is now over and it was down to labour as Wee Eck and the Natz tried their damndest to put the Mockers on any regeneration of the East End ..but once again Labour in the Opposition with the help of others did allow him too"

Really and how did they manage to do that then?

116

MisterN,

Scotland 08/07/2008 10:26:14
113

And how does that hold up relative to everybody else?
117

Banana Heid,

Ayrshire 08/07/2008 10:26:37
Labour are being humiliated already. Wait until the By-election the humiliation will be complete.Gordon brown will be on the dole and well that's enough for me for now...
118

M.Corleone,

2nd Vatican State...... Coatbridge 08/07/2008 10:26:57
#119

So much for the pro SNP bias on BBC Newsnight eh?
119

M.Corleone,

2nd Vatican State ..... Coatbridge 08/07/2008 10:28:42
#122

Dragging their knuckles along the ground more like !!
120

mr angry,

ayrshire 08/07/2008 10:29:17
#113 Bet you will find the answer is ZERO. What a dumpling, away and put the wheels on your chariot.
121

M.Corleone,

2nd Vatican State..... Coatbridge 08/07/2008 10:30:25
#126
Labour ARE a humiliation
Needless uselss groundless war in Iraq for Tony's ego, and......Och that's enough we needn't go any further
122

MisterN,

Scotland 08/07/2008 10:30:25
109 Troll

Here is your "English/German/French/Scandinavian" culture.


English is a West Germanic language that originated from the Anglo-Frisian dialects brought to Britain by Germanic settlers and Roman auxiliary troops from various parts of what is now northwest Germany and the Northern Netherlands. Initially, Old English was a diverse group of dialects, reflecting the varied origins of the Anglo-Saxon Kingdoms of England. One of these dialects, Late West Saxon, eventually came to dominate. The original Old English language was then influenced by two waves of invasion. The first was by language speakers of the Scandinavian branch of the Germanic family; they conquered and colonized parts of Britain in the 8th and 9th centuries. The second was the Normans in the 11th century, who spoke Old Norman and ultimately developed an English variety of this called Anglo-Norman. These two invasions caused English to become "mixed" to some degree (though it was never a truly mixed language in the strict linguistic sense of the word; mixed languages arise from the cohabitation of speakers of different languages, who develop a hybrid tongue for basic communication).

Cohabitation with the Scandinavians resulted in a significant grammatical simplification and lexical supplementation of the Anglo-Frisian core of English; the later Norman occupation led to the grafting onto that Germanic core of a more elaborate layer of words from the Italic branch of the European languages. This Norman influence entered English largely through the courts and government. Thus, English developed into a "borrowing" language of great flexibility and with a huge vocabulary.

123

MisterN,

Scotland 08/07/2008 10:31:20
109

And here is ours.

The English language belongs to the western sub-branch of the Germanic branch of the Indo-European family of languages. The closest living relative of English is Scots, spoken primarily in Scotland and parts of Northern Ireland, which is viewed by linguists as either a separate language or a group of dialects of English. The next closest relative to English after Scots is Frisian, spoken in the Northern Netherlands and Northwest Germany. Other less closely related living West Germanic languages include German, Low Saxon, Dutch, and Afrikaans. The North Germanic languages of Scandinavia are less closely related to English than the West Germanic languages.[citation needed]

Many French words are also intelligible to an English speaker (though pronunciations are often quite different) because English absorbed a large vocabulary from Norman and French, via Anglo-Norman after the Norman conquest and directly from French in subsequent centuries. As a result, a large portion of English vocabulary is derived from French, with some minor spelling differences (word endings, use of old French spellings, etc.), as well as occasional divergences in meaning, in so-called "faux amis", or false friends. The pronunciation of French loanwords in English has become completely anglicized and follows a typically Germanic pattern of stress
124

M.Corleone,

2nd Vatican State...... Coatbridge 08/07/2008 10:33:00
I wonder if Big Cloon is biting his nails aboot this bye election?
125

European Scot,

08/07/2008 10:35:45
104 Grahamski

" So now he's in Holyrood trying his best to trash the place. However time is running out for him. With both him and his deputy being hammered on BBC within a week the people are going to see the emperor truly is wearing no kilt "

The World as viewed through the eyes of a Unionist like you, is so far removed from that of the real version, it's more of a fictional place.
Your personal dislike of Salmond is blatantly obvious, but it shouldn't get in the way of the truth
Alex Salmond is a successful politician, you simply don't win awards on the basis of incompetence. If that were the case, a trophy cabinet at New Labour HQ, would have collapsed under the weight years ago.
Alex, and the SNP, have shaken up the political scene in Scotland. There is a fresh interest in politics, and in the future of the country. Labour who have been around for years, never got anywhere near achieving this kind of enthusiasm.
Nicola Sturgeon on her first performance at FMQ's, where she might have been forgiven for being nervous, was quite the opposite. In a confident manner, even enjoying her role, she made mincemeat of the hapless Wendy Alexander.
Nicola is also a very able performer.
Perhaps you should try tuning into reality, rather than the already discredited Newsnight and Paxman, or the shock heading your way, after a Referendum, may be too much for you to handle.
126

MisterN,

Scotland 08/07/2008 10:38:11
104


"He is also correct to point out that by common consent (ie Labour members, ie the majority of the house) he was an abject failure. Gesture politics don't work at Westminster and whenever he tried to indulge on those he was slapped down. That doesn't play well with somebody as self-regarding as Mr Salmond."

Are you for real? is this post supposed to be a serious comment? what a troll.

Gordon Brown gets slapped down everytime he stands up and he has the majority of MPs in the Parliament to back him up.

When the SNP put over 30 MPs into Westminster after the next election you will see how consensus politics really works. You only got a glimse of it when the DUP forced through the new detention period in exchange for British bases in Northern Ireland.
The SNP would be in a position to bring down any UK government Tory or Labour.

Wake up and smell the winds of change.
127

Miss H,

08/07/2008 10:38:20
118 Oh dear Boudica. You are saying that Gordon Brown only claimed £736.216 for travelling to and from his constituency. And you think that's a good thing?

So how many times do you reckon he 'visited' his constituency in 2007?

128

Queen D,

Glasgow 08/07/2008 10:41:05
"Magret" will have no need to worry, the BBC will succeed in having wee "breakdowns" every time the SNP want to speak.
129

,

08/07/2008 10:41:21
Comment Removed By Administrator
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130

MisterN,

Scotland 08/07/2008 10:43:09
118

In spite of the fact that Gordon Brown lives in London?
So where was he travelling to?
131

MisterN,

Scotland 08/07/2008 10:46:39
139

And yet another inciteful thoughful paragon of a post from a towering intellect and beacon of enlightenment.

I am just bewilldered that every other kn*t on here thinks your a troll they obviously dont see what I see.
132

,

08/07/2008 10:48:13
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
133

,

08/07/2008 10:50:15
Comment Removed By Administrator
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134

jacquesmac,

with faux-cu 08/07/2008 10:50:27
#100

He is paid to do it as he is on a "work experience" programme as part of his future apprenticeship to be a Labour councillor or even MP
So is No6: the colon
135

Scottish 'N British,

08/07/2008 10:51:13
A huge skelping for Wee Eck at the hands of The Master.

Paxo asked him countless times to state that he will fulfill all of his manifesto promises in full without ever receiving a definitve answer. Salmond's reply ?

we will aim to
work towards
look to

......or words to that effect.

Everyone watching finally knows how limited the SNP/Salmond legislative programme really is.

BTW, hopefully Cllr Mason will respond positively to Margaret Curran's offer of a TV debate.

It's Time bring it on.
136

MisterN,

Scotland 08/07/2008 10:51:50
143 troll


"The only reference to the 1000 police is that the SNP have PLEDGED 465 of the 1000 to Strathclyde."

So the pledge is in progress then so whats the problem?
Did the SNP pledge to have 1000 police officers working by their first year in power? or did they pledge to provide the police force with the means and resourses in order to allow them to recruit up to 1000 extra officers?
Remind me.
137

jacquesmac,

with faux-cu 08/07/2008 10:51:55
#100

and that Boudica is just a tart
Whatever did the Romans do for us?

They stuffed you hen
138

,

08/07/2008 10:52:54
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139

Alan B,

08/07/2008 10:53:57
#boudica

Labour have been a joke in economically transforming scotland. Scotland after 10yrs of labour government are still performing worse that the rest of the uk. Our economic growth over the last 30yrs is less that 2%. Over the last 10yrs barely above 2% despite a relatively good global economic climate. The uk itself has underperformed the small western european countries known as the arc of prosperity. so we can see where scotland are.

The fact is while in opposition labour went on about north south divides. When in power they have done nothing to transform scotland or the north of england economically.

The best way to transform glasgow is more jobs and better jobs, along with training that will allow locals to take those jobs.

Labour have failed to produce a high growing scottish economy despite having a scottish chancellor and power in sp aswell. Even their employment growth for the uk as a whole is largely public sector and not jobs that will support the public services we want.

A high growth economy is the way to provide more jobs and better living standards.

Labour have also failed to train people properly to take advantage of many of the jobs that have been produced. Part of the problem with this part of glasgow is some people have given up on getting decent jobs and whole families are unemployed and in poverty. This does not breed self esteem and confidence that is necessary.
140

Fairfax,

08/07/2008 10:55:40
lan B (115): "As chancellor of the uk gordon brown had 10yrs to transform this area of glasgow. He didn't. He did not even fail as he did not try."

I dislike Brown too, but don't see why it's the Treasury's job to transform poor areas of Glasgow, any more than it's their MP's job. Obviously I'm on the political centre-right, but why is the poverty in this area of Glasgow the responsibility of central government? Do its citizens share no responsibility?
141

,

08/07/2008 10:57:23
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142

MisterN,

Scotland 08/07/2008 10:59:21
149

As opposed to Yes there are WMDs in Iraq
or No we didnt give honours for cash.
Or I didnt know those donations were illegal.
143

MisterN,

Scotland 08/07/2008 11:00:21
152

And what should they use for funding their own taxes?
144

brownlie,

08/07/2008 11:00:24
143 British Pride

Terrific post!

Still recruiting for the SNP then?
145

MisterN,

Scotland 08/07/2008 11:02:41
155

How did the Tories "force" them to keep their word by supporting the budget in exchange for making the manifesto pledge a priority as you yourself just said?
146

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08/07/2008 11:05:05
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147

Talorthane,

08/07/2008 11:06:37
It seems that the SNP's John Mason has taken up the challenge by Margaert Curran to appear in a live TV debate.

Mr Mason responded: "Absolutely - I would debate with Margaret every single day if she would like to."
148

MisterN,

Scotland 08/07/2008 11:07:21
162

Another paragon of a post how do you do it?
149

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08/07/2008 11:09:58
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150

Alan B,

08/07/2008 11:12:00
#Fairfax

I too am centre right economically. But that does not detract from the fact that it is the job of government to run the economy. That basically means creating an environment for economic growth.

We can see the differing economic performance of the british economy over the last 50yrs and much of that is down to decisions taken by the government.

"Do its citizens share no responsibility?"
Off course.

But lets look at the problem. If ur parents were brought up in the mass unemployment of the 80s and then there is an air of depression ie why do well at school their are no jobs anyway. then when u leave many around are not in jobs the whole environment is not condusive to success.

It is much easier to succeed if u have positive role model, parents in good jobs, older brothers and sisters achieving etc.

The idea that countries that do well is not related to government economic governance and just the individual citizen is false. Both play a role.

Government must look at the weakness and address those and build on strengths. Government control the education system. Government control the transport system. Government control the taxation system. Government are responsble for monetary policy. (sterling interest rates have been too high for scotland and north of england over a prolonged period of time, i believe euro would be far better).

Labour in opposition went on about how profit was wrong and greedy. That in power they expect peopel to do their moral uturn and start businesses. Business start up is cultural and should be nurtured by the government and encouraged.

Scotland problems economy are:
-cannot use tax system to address economic problems
(even things like filming rob roy and braveheart went to ireland due to tax breaks scotland could not compete and could not alter).
-have a poor monetary policy and have alienated ourselves from eu market by staying our euro.
- poor transport infrasture; poor airlinks, no fast train to lon
151

Alan B,

08/07/2008 11:12:29
cont..

- poor transport infrasture; poor airlinks, no fast train to london or the continent. Both acting against business and tourism.
- has failed to address skills issues
- has poor economic performance for so long that we now think we cannot do better to a large extent. (bit like football or expectations are low)
-cannot regulate certain economic things shown by things like super casios.
- the scottish government economic body blamed much of scotland poor performance on government regulation.
-poor business start up
etc
152

MisterN,

08/07/2008 11:13:25
166

I dont see why when events which happen on the same day dont seem to have any relevance to you judging by your inexplainable description of them.
153

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08/07/2008 11:17:06
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154

All Politicians are the same,

Scotland 08/07/2008 11:17:38
Where does the ridiculious claim that Scotland has bigger oil reserves than Kuwait come from. This link here estimtes UK reserves at 3.6 billion barrels and Kuwait as 106 billion barrels. www.eia.doe.gov/pub/international/iealf/crudeoilreserves.xls

This one has Kuwait at 101 billion barrels and we don't make the top twenty. www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0872964.html
155

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08/07/2008 11:18:14
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,

08/07/2008 11:19:43
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157

Sedov,

Scotland 08/07/2008 11:22:10
Jeremy Paxman had Salmond squirming in his seat on News Night last night as he challenged him to promise the SNP pre - election pledges. Salmond tried his usual tactic of bluff and spin refusing to say yes they will fulfill their election manifesto but it was obvious, like many politicians before him, that the reality of power had hit his party hard. By the way Salmond is having a go at Labour he seems to forget that the SNP are in power in Scotland and its far different from being in opposition. What have the SNP acheived as the so called alternative to new Labour? - -scrapping of the toll bridge and zero council tax . Not much really as the latter reform is not really a lasting reform but a stop gap measure which replaces nothing and the feryyman will have to be paid sooner or later. As I have said in these posts many times - there is nothing new about the SNP -just another bosses party which is managing to divide the Scottish people like no other. PS is Alex Salmond putting on the beef or like the manifesto promises is it just imagination?
158

MisterN,

Scotland 08/07/2008 11:22:23
172

I dont know maybe it was made to give you your excuse to post your link? and start a whole new troll on a North Sea oil arguement?
159

Alan B,

08/07/2008 11:22:56
#Fairfax

One last point. If u live around london or south east and u u cannot fail to get a decent job if u want one and are healthy. Many scots go down to london because of the job market (i did of and on for a while too). More jobs, better jobs, better pay. That is the same individual that could be working in scotland but does not due to lack of opportunities. That shows it is not down purely to the individual the economic success of an area.
160

brownlie,

08/07/2008 11:23:01
171 British Pride

No! Don't give in - show a bit of British Pride! Try switching monikers, maybe a bit of Great Deception or something like that.

161

MisterN,

Scotland 08/07/2008 11:23:25
175

And how would Tommy Sheridan have handled it?
162

MisterN,

Scotland 08/07/2008 11:24:15
178
lol
Dinnae make me laugh.
163

Miss H,

08/07/2008 11:25:55
155 The SNP actually promised to fund an additional 1000 police officers and to encourage Chief Constables to prioritise community policing.

The SNP has funded an additional 1000 police officers.

This is a by-election issue - the Chief Constable of Strathclyde Police has committed to deploying an additional 750 police officers on the beat. Labour are panicking about this as they never promised any additional police officers and tried to tackle low level crime with asbos.

Also Labour in Glasgow blocked attempts by the SNP Council Group (led by John Mason) to get a community police officer into every secondary school.

Labour are soft on crime which is why they are now running round like headless chickens pretending to be Rambo.
164

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08/07/2008 11:33:44
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165

M.Corleone,

2nd Vatican State...... Coatbridge 08/07/2008 11:34:28
Let's have a fight to the finish with Mags and John,
Out the back, stripped to the waist...bet Mags has got bigger muscles than John most likely...and more hair !!

Bang goes their policy of trying to ridicule Alex "2 jobs" Salmond....oh wait, forgot about 2 jobs Browne...as in Des...Desperate that is, the other clowne
166

Alan B,

08/07/2008 11:34:51
#Sedov

We will have to see after a period of power whether we think the snp have achieved for scotland or not. One think is certain they cannot be worse that labour. For 10yrs their governance of scotland has been francly embarrassing.

Personally i do not think the scottish parliament has to power to really address the ingrained and deep economic problems scotland has. But if they do manage to close the economic growth gap with the rest of the uk as they have targetted then hopefully they will be able to get more powers that will allow them to achieve their target to improve our economic performance to match the best performing economies in europe (the small countries known as the arc of prosperity).

On ur comment about the newsnight interview. thought paxman was ridiculous. Before the ego got in the way he used to be a good interviewer but now he just does nto want to let the interviewee answer the question.

the most ridiculous part was the fact he did not put cairns on the spot at all for their failure in glasgow but allowed him to portray labour as a success story in the east of glasgow which is simply a joke.

We will have to judge the snp on their manefesto commitments at the end of their term in office. Labour talking about broken promises just show their hypocracy. I remember an independent review of labour said they had met 40% of their manefesto although part of that was due to being so vague noone could really judge. A bit like blairs tough on crime and tough on the causes. He has come and gone and has done neither in my book.

I like the fact the snp have gone back to old politics and have made firm commitments. We can then judge them on what they achive and what they fail.

Labours hyporacy is also shown by the 2jobs attack on salmond forgetting their own mps and leaders did the very same thing. Now curran is doing the same thing. labour really are gutter politics.
167

connaughtboy,

stonehaven 08/07/2008 11:35:12
#182 HM

All the while forgetting the broken promises of the last administration over years!!!
168

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08/07/2008 11:35:31
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connaughtboy,

stonehaven 08/07/2008 11:35:32
8 years in fact!
170

connaughtboy,

stonehaven 08/07/2008 11:36:11
#186 HM

You are very intelligent!
171

AJ Fife,

08/07/2008 11:36:38
#183,

If a punch up does ensue, will 'Killer' Curran have to remove her yellow tinged wallies before the fight? You don't want the old crone choking on them, would you?
172

subrosa,

08/07/2008 11:37:04
# 146

Mr Salmond's words were "We are working towards fulfilling our manifesto." What part of that didn't Mr Paxman or yourself understand?

How many promises of the last labour/libdem manifesto were fulfilled? The only good thing that came out of them was the smoking policy and that wasn't even in their manifesto!!

Of course the smoking policy was on command from London. Bit like the poll tax and Maggie - try it out on the Scots first and see what happens. Luckily for them it worked. Sadly for Maggie it didn't.
173

Union is Best,

08/07/2008 11:37:18
182. Highland Pride

well said - the SNP promised 1000 extra police and then deviously included funding for 1000 extra police in their budget. Clearly a broken promise of some kind.
174

Aqwes,

Edinburgh 08/07/2008 11:37:27
"174
Highland Mighty...,
08/07/2008 11:19:43
172. Simple rule to remember:

'If a nat said it, it's not true.'"

I enjoy Highland Mighty's comments. They are always well thought-out, constructive, and backd-up with evidence. Most of all, they are civil, positive, and willing to give a fair and balanced shout to all manner of opinions.

Even though I am a civic nationalist, I can truly say that Highland Mighty is a man of great stature, and certainly doesn't have a member the size of a walnut.
175

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08/07/2008 11:37:54
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Union is Best,

08/07/2008 11:38:20
189. LOL. Highland Mighty also favours the brown victorian wooden teeth look - this, as well as panic at the SNP, is why he rarely smiles.
177

Union is Best,

08/07/2008 11:39:17
194. High and Snide


well said - the Scottish parliament did not pass an SNP budget with 1000 extra police.

Clearly by including 1000 extra police in the budget the SNP have reneged on their pledge to budget for 1000 extra police.
178

Alan B,

08/07/2008 11:39:24
#connaughtboy

10yrs they also ran scotland down before the scottish parliament for 2yrs.

Do u not remember they could not even mark the exam papers when they came to power. the made a complete mess of the introduction of the new higher still bringing the scottish education into disrepute.



179

Miss H,

08/07/2008 11:40:29
182 Rubbish.

The SNP has funded an additional 1000 police officers - fact.

It may hurt you to admit it but that promise has not been broken.

More than that, Scotland's biggest police force is working enthusiastically with the Scottish Government to prioritise frontline policing. And the other forces will follow suit.

So you are going to have to find another mantra because a) you look stupid accusing the Government of not having done something it has done and b) voters judge by results. When they see more police on the streets they will vote for the party that put them there - and not the party that wasted huge amounts of time and money on stupid asbos which didn't work.
180

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08/07/2008 11:40:31
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181

Union is Best,

08/07/2008 11:40:48
185. Push and muddle - are you forgetting that in 8 years the Labour excecutive built 6 council houses and regulated sunbeds?
182

Gregor Addison,

Glasgow 08/07/2008 11:41:15
Any bets on how long the Scotsman will try and go without mentioning John Mason's name?

183

subrosa,

08/07/2008 11:41:34
# 182

You know you've posted that drivel about 6 times on this thread. Change the record or change your nickname. It's so boring and complete garbage.
184

Union is Best,

08/07/2008 11:41:41
199. Well said High and Snide

the SNP budget including 1000 extra police was clearly a broken promise of some kind. WHen I work out what, I will give them both barrells!
185

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08/07/2008 11:41:59
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,

08/07/2008 11:42:40
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Union is Best,

08/07/2008 11:43:04
204. Well said, while the SNP manifesto called for 1000 extra police, the SNP's first budget only included funding for 1000 extra police. A disgrace.
188

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08/07/2008 11:43:58
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189

we the people,

08/07/2008 11:44:12
margaret on the guillotine...
190

Union is Best,

08/07/2008 11:44:35
204. High and Snide

have you also noticed that while the SNP promised to abolish tolls on the Forth bridge, they have in fact only reduced the toll to 0p, thus breaking another promise.
191

brownlie,

08/07/2008 11:45:08
182 British Pride

As one with personal experience of lies you are the very one to lecture nats on this subject.
192

MisterN,

Scotland 08/07/2008 11:47:33
194

Are you referring to the Tory government?
because only a Tory government would be able to fulfill a policy.
Remind us again where is this tory government sitting in power?

"And all these ridiculous claims that the "manifesto was not designed for a minority government" when EVERY government has been a minority government. It clearly was incredible stupid of the SNP to publish a manifesto they had no chance of fulfilling."

Did any other party make up their manifesto based on the fact they may end up in power with a minority governement? or did they all make pledges based on winning outright power in parliament and then campaigned on that basis?

"What about class sizes? Student debt? Road improvements? Rail improvements? These and so many other big promises with little chance of actually being delivered"

What about them I thought you said the priority was to get the 1000 police officers?
Dont the SNP have at least 3 years left to fulfill the rest?
193

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08/07/2008 11:47:41
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,

08/07/2008 11:47:41
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Union is Best,

08/07/2008 11:48:30
210 Don't you mess with High Snide.

He is shortly going to expound our new theory, that should voters in Glasgow East elect the SNP, teh four horsemen of the apocalypse will consume us all in a plague of locusts, rain of frogs and sky falling, all set to the music of Chas and Dave (weather permitting)
196

Union is Best,

08/07/2008 11:49:18
214. Well said Highland. The toll was both tiny and insignificant, and yet also so big as to provide alot of money.
197

Miss H,

08/07/2008 11:49:32
Are you having some kind of nervous breakdown Highland Mighty?

You keep repeating the same thing. Saying it over and over again will not make it true.

The SNP Government has kept its promise on extra police. Fact.
198

Union is Best,

08/07/2008 11:50:42
217. Reality is a leading cause of stress for us Unionists at the moment, so please stop that.
199

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08/07/2008 11:51:06
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200

Gusto,

08/07/2008 11:51:55
Paxman is like a pitbull terrier - no brains, doesn't care what he bites, and does not know when to let go.
Old school tory - embarrassing - just like Tim Sebastian and Stephen Sackur.
201

HEN BROON 5,

ALBA being held back by the UK 08/07/2008 11:52:23
Eleven Glasgow Labour Councillors Under Investigation
Fan Hitter PR
05/07/2008
Region : All


Eleven Labour Glasgow City Councillors, including Councillor George Ryan, who last night suddenly pulled out of the contest to represent Labour in the crucial Glasgow East by-election, were reported to the Standards on 18 June 2008 in connection with a controversial land deal in the city centre.




The complaint surrounded their conduct in relation to the controversial attempt to close down the 150 year old Paddy’s Market in the city and obtain land on which the market is currently located.




The complaint which was submitted to the Standards Commission of Scotland by a representative of Paddy’s Market traders claimed that Councillor Ryan misled the council in a report he presented to the council’s Executive Committee which recommended the council purchase the head lease of the land where the market is situated and for the historic Paddy’s Market to be closed down.




The report which was presented by Councillor Ryan at a meeting on 20 March 2008, and subsequently led to the council’s endorsement of its recommendations, stated that the owners of the land had agreed to provide the lease at a reduced rate to the Council. However, the forty page complaint document submitted to the Standards Commission included information that clearly indicated that no such deal had been made with the council.




Councillor Ryan also faces investigation for other breaches of the Code of Conduct in relation to this matter along with ten other high profile Glasgow City Council Labour councillors including the Council leader, Steven Purcell.




Paddy’s Market representative, Brian Daly said:
“This market has been here for over 150 years, and my family has been trading here for three generations. The Labour councillors who are intent on closing us down have failed in their responsibilities as elected members to engage with us at any time
202

Alan B,

08/07/2008 11:52:38
#Highland Mighty

Points u are forgettng regarding manefesto commitments.
1)a party has a full term in office to put in place it commitments.
2)this was the worst settlement for the scottish parliament since the sp has begun. The increase for this yr was 0.5%. And when u consider that is based on cpi inflation a measure that understates inflation rpi the measure used under the tories is much higher it could actually be seen as a cut.

Labour should have announce the money sp was getting before election and not a few months after leading many to say the scotland has been punished for voting snp.

3)they are a minority government and hence quite rightly have to compromise to get budgets through, as such money will be diverted.
4)they are minority government and hence correctly gave way on the trams meaning that 400million was diverted from what they would otherwise have had available for their own priorities.
5)westminster has withheld money from scotland that should have been forethcoming due to barnett ie extra money for english prisons.

From what i see the snp will have clearly backed away and broken 2 commitments. While they have abolished student tution fees they will not clear past student debt. Silly promise but they did make it. And secondly they have come up with an alternative policy helping first time buyers.

Beyond these 2 things where i think they over promised i think they are going in the right direction to implement their commitments.

Part of the problem i see with their approach is they want to free council from the ring fencing where councils basically were implementing central government policy to allow them more freedom to take different decisions in different areas. This conflicts abit with wanting councils to implement certain policies.

My own view would be to take education and some policing out of council control.
203

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08/07/2008 11:53:04
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204

inkster,

08/07/2008 11:53:37
'fools and bairns criticise unfinished work' Anon

Labour's work is finished and the people north and south have had enough of them. They have failed ignominiously and have overstayed their welcome. Inkster

'a new day has dawned, has it not' Tony Blair

It has Tony, it has indeed.

one word of advice for Mr Salmond. Try Chicken Tikka rather than roghan gosh in future.



205

HEN BROON 5,

ALBA being held back by the UK 08/07/2008 11:53:59
They have, instead, chosen to make backroom decisions and bulldozer them through without any regard for the democratic process.




“The whole affair has been one of misrepresentation of the facts to the public, the media and to the council itself. We live in a democratic society yet, some of those who we trust to carry out duties on our behalf have chosen to make decisions and disregard the wishes of the electorate.




“Labour councillors refused to share vital information with other elected members from other political parties who also represent this area or include them in the vital stages of the decision making process. Instead there has been a sustained approach by some Labour councillors and council officials to make unsupported claims both in council and through the media locally in an attempt to gain public and council support for their project.



“Elected members who behave in such a way should and must be held fully accountable for their actions, and whilst it would be inappropriate for me to pre-empt the findings of the Standard Commission investigation, I believe the evidence against those Councillors involved is pretty damning. We won’t put up with the bully boy tactics of the council any longer. We very much look forward to the outcome of the investigation.”


206

HEN BROON 5,

ALBA being held back by the UK 08/07/2008 11:54:23
For further information please contact Caroline Weintz – Fan Hitter PR on: 07717 326 919 or by email at caroline@fan-hitter.co.uk

Editors’ Notes

The other ten Labour councillors have been reported to the Standards Commission are: Councillor Steven Purcell – Council Leader

Councillor James Coleman – Deputy Leader of the Council

Councillor Aileen Colleran – Council Business Manager Councillor

Stephen Curran – City Treasurer

Bailie Gordon Matheson – local councillor for Paddy’s Market Bailie Hanzala Malik

Councillor Stephen Doran Councillor Archie Graham Councillor Ruth Simpson Councillor Shaukat Butt

The Code of Conduct for Councillors forms part of the Ethical Standards in Public Life etc. (Scotland) Act 2000
207

Union is Best,

08/07/2008 11:54:47
224. Quite right, the SNP did not pass their own budget with the 1000 extra police. When I figure out who did I will let you know.

I suggest we continue to complain that the SNP budget has funding for 1000 extra police as this compares most starkly with their manifesto pledge for 1000 extra police.
208

subrosa,

08/07/2008 11:54:54
# 214

Ah I see where you're coming from. I expect labour to now insist that the tolls are put back on the Tay, Forth, Erskine and Skye bridges. £30m?? Erm...
209

Talorthane,

08/07/2008 11:55:02
183 M.Corleone

"Let's have a fight to the finish with Mags and John,
Out the back, stripped to the waist..."

Noooooooooooooo!

I saw "Clash of the Titans" when I was young, and the very thought of Margaret Curran stripped to the waist could turn you to stone.
210

Alan B,

08/07/2008 11:55:11
#214 Highland Mighty

Part of the problem with road tolls is:

1)labour removed them from the west (erskine) but not the forth. This was ideologically a mess. U either believe in tolls or not. Having them only on the forth made no sense and was completely unfair.

2)economically it was damaging to the fife economy.

211

,

08/07/2008 11:55:37
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212

MisterN,

Scotland 08/07/2008 11:55:55
223

Completely irrelevant to his job of sh*t stirring.
213

,

08/07/2008 11:56:45
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214

Union is Best,

08/07/2008 11:57:01
233. That is a lie. If that were true Jackie Baillie would be thundering around Glasgow East on our specially reinforced battle bus.
215

HEN BROON 5,

ALBA being held back by the UK 08/07/2008 11:57:42
THIS IS WORTH A DOUBLE POST. The reason Curran was fith choice is because inbred Zanuliebour party corruption forced the other stooges to withdraw as they are about to be plastered all over the media. The Express is carrying the story today as none of the Glasgow or Edinburgh English owned media is allowed to print it due to manipulation.


For further information please contact Caroline Weintz – Fan Hitter PR on: 07717 326 919 or by email at caroline@fan-hitter.co.uk

Editors’ Notes

The other ten Labour councillors have been reported to the Standards Commission are: Councillor Steven Purcell – Council Leader

Councillor James Coleman – Deputy Leader of the Council

Councillor Aileen Colleran – Council Business Manager Councillor

Stephen Curran – City Treasurer

Bailie Gordon Matheson – local councillor for Paddy’s Market Bailie Hanzala Malik

Councillor Stephen Doran Councillor Archie Graham Councillor Ruth Simpson Councillor Shaukat Butt

The Code of Conduct for Councillors forms part of the Ethical Standards in Public Life etc. (Scotland) Act 2000
216

SEUMAS,

fearn 08/07/2008 11:58:19
The irrefutable fact is that we now have a government ,albeit a minority one juggling with the lowest settlement from westminster ever who are doing thir best for Scotland ,so go away and be ashamed you liebour trolls--just look at the state of Glasgow east after years on the watch of a man who pocketed £500,000 to pay his family while sitting in his semi.
No wonder he is suffering from nervous tension, he has every reason to.
Liebour has given a whole new dimension to the word cynical
217

HEN BROON 5,

ALBA being held back by the UK 08/07/2008 11:59:02
FROM # 237.


Paddy’s Market traders have submitted an alternative proposal to the landowners which, if accepted, would see them take over the head lease and to operate the facility on a community based co-operative system or trust. The Paddy’s proposal details how they will regenerate the area whilst maintaining the current market community. It also places a strong emphasis on community involvement and social inclusion plans which would ensure that it continued to assist people from all walks of life.
Contact: Caroline Weintz
Phone: 07717 326 919
Email: caroline@fan-hitter.co.uk
Website: http://www.fan-hitter.co.uk
218

,

08/07/2008 11:59:41
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219

Union is Best,

08/07/2008 12:00:02
239. Steady, he is only 12
220

HEN BROON 5,

ALBA being held back by the UK 08/07/2008 12:00:26
British Pride,
11/04/2008 18:16:47
553. Whoa! Great! Such typical SNP incite. Fantastic! I only post as Highland Mighty, can you say the same you cyber-nay???

http://tinyurl.com/944cj













LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
221

MisterN,

Scotland 08/07/2008 12:00:50
224

No the Tories won the concession on making the 1000 police officer pledge a priority as you said yourself in exchange for supporting the budget.
The SNP looked at other options and various ways of getting 1000 extra police onto the streets.
Or do you think Governments shouldnt look at all possible options and scenarios?
We are now down to the fact that the MONEY pledged to allow THE POLICE FORCE to recruit their extra officers has been kept.
Or do you think the manifesto pledge was promising the SNP were pledging to go out interview and take on the extra officers themselves?
222

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08/07/2008 12:01:30
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Union is Best,

08/07/2008 12:01:35
241. Highland

quite right - while the Scottish budget increase of 0.5% was generous and substantial, the increase to local government of 13% and giving a bigger share of the total to local government, is in fact a cut.
224

brownlie,

08/07/2008 12:02:14
221 McPravda

For your information we already have a great example of the British Bulldog and British Pride at Celtic Park in the form of the union-jacketed John Reid - probably the greatest Home Secretary of modern times.
225

HEN BROON 5,

ALBA being held back by the UK 08/07/2008 12:02:21
British Pride,
11/04/2008 18:16:47
553. Whoa! Great! Such typical SNP incite. Fantastic! I only post as Highland Mighty, can you say the same you cyber-nay???

http://tinyurl.com/944cj













LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
226

,

08/07/2008 12:02:23
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HEN BROON 5,

ALBA being held back by the UK 08/07/2008 12:03:20
British Pride,
11/04/2008 18:16:47
553. Whoa! Great! Such typical SNP incite. Fantastic! I only post as Highland Mighty, can you say the same you cyber-nay???

http://tinyurl.com/944cj













LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
228

Union is Best,

08/07/2008 12:03:42
249. I remain as disgusted as I was before that the SNP promised 1000 extra police yet their budget delivers only 1000 extra police.
229

HEN BROON 5,

ALBA being held back by the UK 08/07/2008 12:04:30
THIS IS WORTH A MULTIPLE POST. The reason Curran was fith choice is because inbred Zanuliebour party corruption forced the other stooges to withdraw as they are about to be plastered all over the media. The Express is carrying the story today as none of the Glasgow or Edinburgh English owned media is allowed to print it due to manipulation.


For further information please contact Caroline Weintz – Fan Hitter PR on: 07717 326 919 or by email at caroline@fan-hitter.co.uk

Editors’ Notes

The other ten Labour councillors have been reported to the Standards Commission are: Councillor Steven Purcell – Council Leader

Councillor James Coleman – Deputy Leader of the Council

Councillor Aileen Colleran – Council Business Manager Councillor

Stephen Curran – City Treasurer

Bailie Gordon Matheson – local councillor for Paddy’s Market Bailie Hanzala Malik

Councillor Stephen Doran Councillor Archie Graham Councillor Ruth Simpson Councillor Shaukat Butt

The Code of Conduct for Councillors forms part of the Ethical Standards in Public Life etc. (Scotland) Act 2000
230

Miss H,

08/07/2008 12:04:38
Highland Mighty - the answer to 232 is d'oh.

We wanted the Tories to support our budget.

As things turned out that was not needed as Labour didn't oppose it. But clearly the SNP did not know that at the time.
231

MisterN,

Scotland 08/07/2008 12:04:59
249

See post 244. any chance of you answering any of the points put to you on this blog? any chance of you answering any points put to you at all?
232

,

08/07/2008 12:05:29
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233

HEN BROON 5,

ALBA being held back by the UK 08/07/2008 12:05:36
British Pride,
11/04/2008 18:16:47
553. Whoa! Great! Such typical SNP incite. Fantastic! I only post as Highland Mighty, can you say the same you cyber-nay???

http://tinyurl.com/944cj













LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
234

Union is Best,

08/07/2008 12:06:04
256. LOL. Of course not. We are unionists. We just ask the same questions over and over and over again.
235

HEN BROON 5,

ALBA being held back by the UK 08/07/2008 12:06:11
THIS IS WORTH A MULTIPLE POST. The reason Curran was fith choice is because inbred Zanuliebour party corruption forced the other stooges to withdraw as they are about to be plastered all over the media. The Express is carrying the story today as none of the Glasgow or Edinburgh English owned media is allowed to print it due to manipulation.


For further information please contact Caroline Weintz – Fan Hitter PR on: 07717 326 919 or by email at caroline@fan-hitter.co.uk

Editors’ Notes

The other ten Labour councillors have been reported to the Standards Commission are: Councillor Steven Purcell – Council Leader

Councillor James Coleman – Deputy Leader of the Council

Councillor Aileen Colleran – Council Business Manager Councillor

Stephen Curran – City Treasurer

Bailie Gordon Matheson – local councillor for Paddy’s Market Bailie Hanzala Malik

Councillor Stephen Doran Councillor Archie Graham Councillor Ruth Simpson Councillor Shaukat Butt

The Code of Conduct for Councillors forms part of the Ethical Standards in Public Life etc. (Scotland) Act 2000
236

,

08/07/2008 12:06:34
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237

Shaken,

08/07/2008 12:08:27
#244 Higland Mighty

Lets take Glasgow East as a microcosm of what Labour can do given 50 years of power:

Average life exp - 62 (lower than Bangladesh)

50% of adults have no school qualifications

50% of adults are on benefits

The people who live here are so badly educated, so emmersed in crime and depravation that they continue to vote Labour!

Well done to Labour, the Union and all who support you.

Question:

Do those stats not make you sick to live in the same country in which this kind of inequality is perpetuated and encouraged by you and other like you?

Glib comment - Highland Mighty?


Vive la SNP
238

,

08/07/2008 12:08:36
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MisterN,

Scotland 08/07/2008 12:09:57
257

And the sad part is he is serious. This is a serious post by his standards.
I dont know whether to laugh scream spit or cry.
F*ck it I am convinced no more wish for Independence for me.
240

,

08/07/2008 12:12:05
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Sedov,

Scotland 08/07/2008 12:14:25
#179 Mister N - Tommy Sheridan's missionin life appears to be to have one long rant against Labour without posing a socialist programme worthy of his marxist past. He has said one one hand that he would rather see an SNP MP get in in Glasgow and on the other hand he states that he does not want to see representatives of the bosses coming to power. Well Tommy, if you are listening - what is the class nature of the SNP? - it is as a bourgeois nationalist party who want to retain the status quo, ie toady to the bosses at the expense of everone else. - the same as Labour and all the other main parties of course. Tommy has lost it because he no longer belives in marxism and is just another left reformist sectarian. # 184 Alan B - you are making athe same mistake as countless others before you -you are comparing an SNP government with a Labour one. We all know how bad Labour is and has been, but the problem is - Are the SNP really any much better and do their policies and programme go to the root of the problems besetting working people and will they fundementally solve the problems? The answers have got to be NO whether today next week or in five or ten years time. So you are setting your standards against what has went before when you should be demanding is a radical programme in favour of working people set by the SNP NOW the same as I am of the Labour Party. We have no more time to lose. Its not possible of course for the SNP to undertake such a programme for the reasons stated above. whether it is possible for Labour to change back to the days of clause four is doubtful but not impossible.
242

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08/07/2008 12:15:09
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,

08/07/2008 12:16:30
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Alfie Bett,

08/07/2008 12:16:39
There is going to be huge media coverage for this by election by the English media as well as the blatantly labour biased Scottish press so ironically there may be overall a more balanced view of the proceedings over the coming couple of weeks rather than if we were solely dependent on the Scottish papers for news.
Normally at a general election this seat would get virtually no coverage by the media,being such a labour shoo in,so prominent daily coverage may well affect the result
Where as the Scottish media have proven to be extremely reluctant to give any prominent coverage of the alleged but pretty near certain venality of the numerous labour scoundrels involved around this seat and elsewhere, the English press will have no such qualms and in doing so may give thinking voters pause for thought before they put their X against the labour dumplin as they would normally do.
Its still a big ask to expect an SNP win, areas like this have a large proportion of people with a misguided sense of loyalty to labour right or wrong in much the same way as others would support a football team but not a political party.
As an aside it is really amusing seeing unionist posters waffling about broken promises when neither the labour or tories have fulfilled their election pledges in the entire history of UK politics and now their whining at the SNP after a little over a year in office of a four year term running a minority government and running it well.
Highland Mighty=fast scroll down,the lights are on but nobody's in.
245

MisterN,

Scotland 08/07/2008 12:16:46
266

It wasnt changed at all it was an option looked at and proposed to the Police force and then spun by the oppostion into this bullsh*t of a policy change.
If there was any resemblence to the truth in this you wouldnt be posting it for a start.
246

brownlie,

08/07/2008 12:17:09
257 British Pride

Obscenities now - this after Highland Mighty - who you may be acquainted with - complains continually regarding the use of abuse on this site. Shame on you!

Union is Best

You were specifically told not to make any comments on Jackie lest it harms her leadership challenge. I know you're obsessed with her, and who would not be, but kindly desist!!
247

Shaken,

08/07/2008 12:17:49
#244 Higland Mighty

Lets take Glasgow East as a microcosm of what Labour can do given 50 years of power:

Average life exp - 62 (lower than Bangladesh)

50% of adults have no school qualifications

50% of adults are on benefits

The people who live here are so badly educated, so emmersed in crime and depravation that they continue to vote Labour!

Well done to Labour, the Union and all who support you.

Question:

Do those stats not make you sick to live in the same country in which this kind of inequality is perpetuated and encouraged by you and other like you?

Glib comment - Highland Mighty?


Vive la SNP
248

MisterN,

Scotland 08/07/2008 12:19:44
268

Which was removed on professional advice from the industry and proved to be of no value whatsover to first time buyers.
Do you remember a Labour PM saying he was going to listen to the public? well here is an example of a Government listening and then adjusting their policies accordingly.
Now isnt that referreshing?
249

Alan B,

08/07/2008 12:20:27
#Highland Mighty

"Road improvements? Rail improvements?"

We will have to see how they get on and will judge them after that but they cannot be worse than the previous mob.

Our roads are now almost 3rd world like in places. Labour have truely been negligent when i came to maintaining our road there are potholes and bumbs all over the place.

As for rail. 10yrs of labour and we have no fast connection between glas and edin. No fast connection between scotland and london and not direct links to the continent. Prices have gone up. Staff numbers have shot up but i can honestly say have not felt any improvement in the last 10yrs. Not saying their has been none but using the train every day it is more overcrowded and no improvement on seating space etc.

the big project they did highlight have not been delivered during their time in office but were promises for the future. ie earl and border link. Both were not schemes that should have been prioritised anyway.

As i said we will have to see if the snp can do any better. With trains having no direct control over track they are having to work within the mess of the devolution settlement.



250

MisterN,

Scotland 08/07/2008 12:20:40
268

or even refressing.
251

MisterN,

08/07/2008 12:21:58
268

Or even refreshing.
252

MisterN,

Scotland 08/07/2008 12:23:32
275

Dont ask him questions he no here to answer any views points or arguements or to discuss anything.
253

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08/07/2008 12:23:43
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Union is Best,

08/07/2008 12:25:13
281.Well said. Scotland receives zero in oil revenues - this is indeed our fair share within the Union.
255

,

08/07/2008 12:26:37
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Shaken,

08/07/2008 12:26:53
Higland Mighty

Lets take Glasgow East as a microcosm of what Labour can do given 50 years of power:

Average life exp - 62 (lower than Bangladesh)

50% of adults have no school qualifications

50% of adults are on benefits

The people who live here are so badly educated, so emmersed in crime and depravation that they continue to vote Labour!

Well done to Labour, the Union and all who support you.

Question:

Do those stats not make you sick to live in the same country in which this kind of inequality is perpetuated and encouraged by you and other like you?

Glib comment - Highland Mighty?


Vive la SNP
257

Shaken,

08/07/2008 12:28:47
I'll just keep posting till I get a response
258

MisterN,

Scotland 08/07/2008 12:29:14
281

Well points 1 and 2 are obviously government derived conclusion based on those absolutely reliable government statistics which have already been blown out of the water on numerous occasions already and as to point 3
UK personnal debt is somewhere close to 2.1 Trillion
or are you using Government figures again as "truth"?

Maybe you can give us the Governments record on telling the "truth" to date and give your claims some semblence of fact?
259

MisterN,

08/07/2008 12:30:01
286

Lol.
260

HEN BROON 5,

ALBA being held back by the UK 08/07/2008 12:30:49
British Pride,
11/04/2008 18:16:47
553. Whoa! Great! Such typical SNP incite. Fantastic! I only post as Highland Mighty er AM2 er Truely English er Grahamski er kimba er fairfax er janis er eeek aaargh stop stop stop. Can you say the same you cyber-nay??? Some one tel me who I am please. Aaaargh.

http://tinyurl.com/944cj













LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
261

Alan B,

08/07/2008 12:31:44
#Highland Mighty

"UK debt is currently ~£500bn, 43% of GDP"

A couple of things to remember. The government have used pfi to push debt off balance sheet. Also the governemtn have failed to set aside provision for public sector pensions in the same way they have brought in legislation for the private sector to do.

Inlcuding both those things apparently brings uk debt to more than 100% of gpd.

Official uk dept of 43% is good (if u exclude the above factors), however the problem we have in the uk is the incompetence of brown means we have huge yr on yr deficits.

Brown inherited a good uk fiscal position and also good private sector pension provision. He has ruined both. Not only do we have huge deficits we have had them during a time of relatively good global economic conditions so when times get hard like now we are in a mess as we do not have the flexibility to run up deficits to compensate.
262

MisterN,

Scotland 08/07/2008 12:33:34
284

Certainly seems that way doesnt it? oh f*ck me maybe they are human after all now wouldnt that be a headline EVIDENCE PRESENTED TO SHOW SNP GOVERNMENT IS HUMAN. Labour said to be disgusted and added "we warned you they were different."
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08/07/2008 12:37:42
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08/07/2008 12:38:41
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Kenny,,

Glasgow 08/07/2008 12:40:36
Could I just say something here.

I would like to congratulate the SNP for fulfilling their manifesto pledge of 1000 new police officers.

I think its tremendous that we have a party in power who are delivering on their promises. Keep up the good work.
266

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08/07/2008 12:41:26
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08/07/2008 12:43:02
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MisterN,

Scotland 08/07/2008 12:44:27
295

I was just wondering who Labour got their advice from with regards to going into Iraq and Afganistan and who advises them on taking party donations or who advises them on claiming their expenses?
Who advised them on buying new Trident missles?
Who advised them on taking away the 10p tax rate?
Who advised them on bailing out Northern Rock?
Who advised Gordon Brown not to hold an election when he was neck and neck with Cameron?
Who advised Wendy to resign?
Who advised them to sell honours for cash?
Who advised them to deal illegally with the Saudis?


Do you know?
269

MisterN,

Scotland 08/07/2008 12:45:17
297

What is a real police number?
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08/07/2008 12:46:10
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John S,

08/07/2008 12:46:39
On the subject of manifestos - Labour Party 1997
In its 1997 manifesto, the party said "We have made it our guiding rule not to promise what we cannot deliver; and to deliver what we promise."

From the Labour Party 1997 Manifesto
We are committed to a referendum on the voting system for the House of Commons. An independent commission on voting systems will be appointed early to recommend a proportional alternative to the first-past-the-post system.
The Labour Party 2001 manifesto did not make such a commitment.

Labour has met nearly 80% of its 1997 election pledges, according to a major research project carried out by the BBC. 3 May, 2002

The research - commissioned to mark the fifth anniversary of Tony Blair's election victory - shows that 48 out of 229 manifesto promises are either too difficult to judge or have not been met.
272

Alan B,

08/07/2008 12:47:11
#Highland Mighty

U can't be driving a car if u think our road are good. Both in edinburgh and glasgow some of our roads are shocking.

U brought up roads, as i could understand a government saying yes we neglected them as we prioritised some other area.
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Alan B,

08/07/2008 12:49:57
#John S

if it was 80% nearly met how many fully met.

Remember blair having an manefesto commitment not to increase tution fees but when re-elected increased them anyway.
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08/07/2008 12:50:26
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MisterN,

Scotland 08/07/2008 12:53:13
307

And who determines whether this number is accurate and true? is it a constant or does it fluctuate?
276

The Federalist (the poster formerly know as NAUON),

08/07/2008 12:53:44
I have noticed recently that many Nat posters - the rabid ones - insist on equating New Labour with Robert Mugabe's ZANU PF.

Apart from the fact that the morons are trivialising events in Zimbabwe by their actions - are they actually seriously saying that Labour is going round assaulting and beating up its political opponents?

I have to say that such comparisions are as spurious as those who compare the SNP to the NASDP - complete and utter s h i t e.
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Miss H,

08/07/2008 12:54:28
Highland Mighty has truly flipped this time. I mean I have thought before that he has flipped but this time he actually has.

At least Paxman tried to attack Salmond for not fulfilling all manifesto commitments within one year of being elected.

But Highland Mighty is attacking the SNP for not fulfilling manifesto commitments which they have in fact fulfilled within one year of being elected.

Perhaos we should pause for a moment's silence to mark the passing of one for whom reality has proved to be too much .....
278

Miss H,

08/07/2008 12:57:42
310 I agree that Zimbabwe comparisons are stupid. However Labour cannot claim to be an open and democratic party really. I guess that is why they are relying on a call centre in Newcastle to canvass votes. I have not seen any of their activists out yet and no wonder.
279

MisterN,

Scotland 08/07/2008 12:58:58
310

Quite right Labour have in fact been responsible for far more atrocities death and destruction in Iraq and Afganistan than the Zanu PF party could hope to acheive in their wildest nightmares.

It simply isnt fair to compare the two.
280

John S,

08/07/2008 13:04:25
#306:Alan B-Manifesto-Labour Party 1997
Labour's pledges
Done
181 (79%)
Not done
21 (9.2%)
On course
3 (1.3%)
Partially done
14 (6.1%)
Debatable
10 (4.4%)
http://tinyurl.com/5vso73
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MisterN,

Scotland 08/07/2008 13:05:03
306

Dont remember a pledge to invade Iraq and Afganistan in their manifesto though?
Nor the pledge to abolish the 10p tax rate.
Nor the pledge to bail out banks with public funds.

They seem to keep more pledges they dont make than pledges they do.
282

Brian Hill,

Edinburgh 08/07/2008 13:05:27
Hamish writes: "Gordon Brown, the Prime Minister, phoned Steven Purcell, the Labour leader of Glasgow Council, four times in an attempt to get him to run for the party in Glasgow East, but he refused."

Last night on Newsnight Labour's David Cairns categorically denied that Brown had ever phoned Steven Purcell about standing in Glasgow East.

Who is the liar here?

As for Paxman trying to repeat his triumph over Michael Howard by asking the same question a record number of times, in this case to Salmond. Could I ask him to put his very large ego behind him and ask politicians questions which are realistic?

Perhaps Mr Paxman could tell us which Government has been able to fulfil every manifesto commitment during his time as political commentator. The answer is of course none, so instead of wasting time trying to look smart Mr Paxman why not illicit answers the public would like to hear about a by election which could be the tipping point between Labour and the SNP as the future dominant force in Scottish politics.

Not forgetting that if it's the SNP then its good bye Rule Britannia.

283

MisterN,

Scotland 08/07/2008 13:06:25
316

And that is in a 10 plus year period?
How about over the last 50 years in Scotland?
And why didnt they keep all their pledges in the first year?
284

All Politicians are the same,

Scotland 08/07/2008 13:09:13
#314

You do the nationalist cause no good by using the word atrocities, remember an atrocity is a deliberate act of savagery, like when Mugabe killed 20,000 members of a rival tribe. Every man, woman and child. By accusing Labour of atrocities in Iraq and Afghanistan you in effect accuse service personnel both Scottish and English. the populace have far more respect for service personnel than for ANY political party.
285

MisterN,

Scotland 08/07/2008 13:09:53
316

How many of those "kept pledges" are actually not in their manifesto?
286

MisterN,

Scotland 08/07/2008 13:12:54
323

Firing cruise missiles, dropping bombs and explosives onto populated cities seems like a good definition of atrocity to me. I dont remember the people of Iraq declaring war on the people of the UK do you?
In fact I dont remember the Iraqi government declaring war on the UK government do you?
The same can be said for the people in Afganistan.

Now what is your definition of an "atrocity" then?
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08/07/2008 13:13:32
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08/07/2008 13:14:44
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All Politicians are the same,

Scotland 08/07/2008 13:14:58
#300

Neither actually the extra police are not yet in place whilst the kit required continues to arrive in theatre but not yet in sufficient numbers.
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MisterN,

08/07/2008 13:16:40
325

Thats still disengenuous. Its not the SNPs job nor responsiblity to actually recruit these officers like I have said many times already its only their responsiblity to ensure the funding is in place in order to allow the police force to conduct its own recruiting campaign.
If the numbers are short then the responibilty lies with the police force human resourses and not the Scottish government.
291

MisterN,

Scotland 08/07/2008 13:18:30
329

They promised to provide the funding to allow the recruitment of up to 1000 police officers which part of that are you so obviously having problems coping with?
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08/07/2008 13:19:09
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MisterN,

Scotland 08/07/2008 13:19:24
330

And who is responsible for the officers not yet being in place? and who is responsible for supplying the kit?
294

G,

dundee 08/07/2008 13:19:37
Will the SNP candidate go for a TV debate with Curran?

I doubt it - he wouldn't be allowed to have Salmond there to hold his hand - he'd only expose himself as a utter SNumPty...but then again the SNP aren't interested in doing anything for the east of Glasgow, or in fact, doing anything at all...because trying to deliver sometyhing means, you will probably not succeed and the SNP are paralysed by their fear of failure...the brag and boast but do nothing party....
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08/07/2008 13:20:48
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MisterN,

Scotland 08/07/2008 13:21:21
333

Never seen that happen on these threads before.
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08/07/2008 13:21:41
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MisterN,

Scotland 08/07/2008 13:22:51
337

No they didnt. They put an option to the police force which was spun by the opposition into a broken pledge.

Not like them to do that is it?
299

MisterN,

Scotland 08/07/2008 13:24:05
339

Sorry I didnt realise they promised to personally "RECRUIT" 1000 new police officers themselves when and where did you say they did that again?
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08/07/2008 13:24:39
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08/07/2008 13:26:15
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MisterN,

Scotland 08/07/2008 13:27:21
342

Wow it thinks it speaks for "everybody" now.
Delusions of meglomania to add to his delusions of reality.
What next delusions of Scotlands place in the union perhaps?
303

Talorthane,

08/07/2008 13:27:53
335 G,dundee

"Will the SNP candidate go for a TV debate with Curran?

I doubt it - he wouldn't be allowed to have Salmond there to hold his hand - he'd only expose himself as a utter SNumPty..."

John Mason, a Glasgow city councillor, gave his response today:

"Absolutely. I would debate with Margaret every single day if she would like to."

304

MisterN,

Scotland 08/07/2008 13:28:14
343

I posed that as a question not a statement.
305

All Politicians are the same,

Scotland 08/07/2008 13:30:17
#327

There was no indiscriminate bombing or use of cruise missiles without a military target, or a key piece of infrastructure. You seem to compare modern military munitions with ww2 carpet bombing. I would describe an atrocity as the deliberate targetting and killing of innocents, like Mugabe cutting parents heads off in front of their Children. By your definition any war is immediately an atrocity, a tragedy yes an atrocity no. If you really want to accuse the armed forces of atrocities I know whose side the public will take.
306

Alan B,

08/07/2008 13:30:26
#Highland Mighty

I understand u support the union. But what i do not understand about u is ur attacks on the snp when we have had such poor government from labour both in competance and in the form of corruption.

I could understand backing any party apart from labour. They quite simply have been truely dreadful when in government both in scotland and london.

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08/07/2008 13:30:34
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08/07/2008 13:31:48
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MisterN,

Scotland 08/07/2008 13:33:22
347

GTF you dont target with WMDs you aim them at an area for "AREA WIDE DISPERSAL" the area in question is a city block or a neighbourhood or a group of buildings or a single block of flats.
Just try and keep it real I am sick to death of the lies and bullsh*t about this so called war on terror when its us who are responible for starting it in the first place.
310

Cpt Incredible,

Edinburgh 08/07/2008 13:35:54
I wish the supporters of the war criminals and sleaze party were not so angry and bitter that the SNP have had such a great first year in power.
In my opinion they should be grateful that a party is finally putting Scotland first.
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08/07/2008 13:40:18
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08/07/2008 13:40:21
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08/07/2008 13:43:21
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08/07/2008 13:43:34
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MisterN,

Scotland 08/07/2008 13:43:43
347

I loved those press releases during the war where the US military should video footage of missiles going in through windows and then blank.
what it didnt show was the complete and utter destruction of the entire building and the rain of debris for yards around. But when civilians and non combatants are killed as a result of "area targetting" that isnt and atrocity its "colatoral damage" its only an atrocity when somebody else is responsible.
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MisterN,

Scotland 08/07/2008 13:44:54
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How so?
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MisterN,

Scotland 08/07/2008 13:46:04
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354. That is a quote from the SNP's GERS, which Salmond claims is the most accurate statement of accounts available.

to who when? or is this another quote from an oppostion source?
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Talorthane,

08/07/2008 13:46:37
#361 Highland Mighty

"That is a quote from the SNP's GERS, which Salmond claims is the most accurate statement of accounts available."

The operative word in that sentence is "available".

That doesn't mean that it has any given level of accuracy.
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All Politicians are the same,

Scotland 08/07/2008 13:47:10
#347

Ah another Nat, personal abuse and clueless about military facts, also catchphrases WMDs none were used. Precision guided bombs were used to take out power stations, and bunkers as were Tomahawk land attack missiles, all of which can be targetted to an area of 10 feet or less. the only area affect weapons used were MLRS agains infantry and tanks in the desert. keep it up you do the Nats proud. as for real, i was there.
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MisterN,

Scotland 08/07/2008 13:47:30
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Or credibility.
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All Politicians are the same,

Scotland 08/07/2008 13:49:34
#363

Mistakes do happen, the definition of atrocity as I put it was a deliberate act. You nats keep comparing the UK armed forces to Mugabes thugs its a guaranteed vote winner.
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MisterN,

Scotland 08/07/2008 13:51:40
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You dont even know what a WMD is do you?
It can be an aircraft fitted with multiple weapon systems or an artillary shell or a single missle or a single missle with muliple war heads and all of them used on civilian targets in both Iraq and Afganistan.

ALL charity groups and human rights groups agree the death toll in Iraq alone has topped the million mark now how many of them do you think are combatants?
and that doesnt include the thousands killed as a direct result of sanctions imposed over a 10 year period.

Our governments only get away with this sh*t because F*cks like you deny it happens.
People like you really do make me physically sick.
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HEN BROON 5,

ALBA being held back by the UK 08/07/2008 13:53:38
350
Highland Mighty...,
08/07/2008 13:30:34
344. I'm really not that bright, are you.

I'm going right out on a limb in believing that I am quite young....but I am also a little bit dim too, aren't you.

I do realise that almost all of my posts are nonsensical gibberish, don't you?

(And I know I have just considered responding with a "So are yours!" or "pot-kettle" type post....)




Agreed.

It is time for the men in white coats now, there there try and take deep breaths and stay calm, you won't feel a thing just a little prik, there thats better.














LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!



























:O)
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MisterN,

Scotland 08/07/2008 13:54:11
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The mistake was allowing our government to drag us into this war in the first place.
Or for allowing a system of government which is so corrupt and so far removed from democratic as to be despotic.
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MisterN,

Scotland 08/07/2008 13:55:23
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Your own logon appears to agree with me.
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Alan B,

08/07/2008 13:56:47
#Highland Mighty

GDP ppp per capita the uk is third of the G8 countries according to imf figures (2007) with the US the highest (Canada next).

However it should be noted that the big countries are outperformed by the smaller ones.

Luxembourg, Norway, Singapore, Ireland, Switzerland, Iceland, Netherlands, Canada, Austria, Denmark, Sweden, Australia, Finland and Belgium above the uk in that order.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_(PPP)_per_capita
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MisterN,

Scotland 08/07/2008 13:57:14
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Wealthiest country eh? 2.1 trillion in personal debt.
Can we right this off then? or are you telling blatent lies again?
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MisterN,

Scotland 08/07/2008 13:59:00
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Maybe you should have started this debate under one of your other accounts?
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All Politicians are the same,

Scotland 08/07/2008 13:59:21
#374

A weapon of mass destruction, designed to destroy is not a term the military use, it is coined by clueles left wingers like yourself. If we had to categorise a WMD it would be a nuclear or chemical warhead, at the very least a fuel air Explosive, Fuel air explosives were used agains military tagets, neither of the others used at all. In terms of multiple warheads those deployed in the MLRS system are used agins tanks and infantry. The vast majority of casualties in both countries have been caused by terrorist bombings. The fact of the matter is that we do not deliberately target civilians, they do. We use minimum required force they use as much as they can get. We try to minimise the death toll, they maximise it. We make you sick, a great vote winner, Military make Nats sick.
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MisterN,

Scotland 08/07/2008 13:59:45
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And is that an example of your own intellect?
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Alan B,

08/07/2008 14:00:21
#Highland Mighty

The reason the snp want to take scotland out the uk is it is not working in our economic interests.

The uk is a big successful economy. Scotland has not done particularly well within it over the past 40yrs.

Ur argument seems to be england has a succesful economy scotland as we know does not growing more slowly in comparison to both england and the other small european countries over the past decade, so we should stay with this failing arrangement.

If scotland was performing well within the uk it would be different but it has not.
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Alan B,

08/07/2008 14:03:03
#388 Highland Mighty

Glad to see u can admit when u are wrong. Are u saying the imf published figures were wrong.
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MisterN,

Scotland 08/07/2008 14:11:28
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A weapon of mass destruction, designed to destroy is not a term the military use

No doubt a comfort to all the victims of these humane discimitary subjective munitions.

How very sensitive of you to classify atorcity in terms of vast numbers as opposed to just high numbers or medium numbers or even a single family or a baby in a pram.

Just keep digging yourself further and further into that big hole of ignorance.
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MisterN,

Scotland 08/07/2008 14:12:19
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So you should be.
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Alan B,

08/07/2008 14:15:42
#Highland Mighty

"It's 2008 this year"

Ur good.

Seriously any figures for 2008 will be estimates. 2007 will be actual figures (the wiki site was 2007 estimates i was just pulling first google result). there are not many sites that come up that give comparative lists.

the US cia figures tend to inflate the US position if u look at the wiki site i posted.
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MisterN,

Scotland 08/07/2008 14:16:22
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Nothing would surprise me about this war.
Apart from somebody tripping over a silo site full of WMDs.
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All Politicians are the same,

Scotland 08/07/2008 14:16:30
#404

I was not calssifying atrocities by numbers merely pointing out that we do not commit atrocities whilst the enemy definitively do, i have provided you with the facts and corrected your mistakes but I am not going to try and reason with you. After all the military make you sick and we are worse than Mugabes thugs in your eyes. I am sure the public will agree with you. What can i expect from a man that supports a party led by the man who wrote a letter to the Iranian leader at a time where his country are supplying munitions that are killing British soldiers.
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Alan B,

08/07/2008 14:20:24
#Highland Mighty

Another list (cia) unfortuately u cannot order but it puts $35,100 (2007 est.) and US at $45,800 (2007 est.). (Canadas $38,400 (2007 est.) )

https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/fields/2004.html
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MisterN,

Scotland 08/07/2008 14:21:24
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Enough of your Bullsh*t remain in denial all you want but dont try and pass off your blinkered wet dreams as facts.
The death toll and casulaty figures speaks for itself especially with regards to the ratio of civilian to combatant deaths and maimings.
Yes many civilians are murdered by the other side as well which doesnt justify our murdering them as well.
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Cpt Incredible,

Edinburgh 08/07/2008 14:22:18
Well it's been a tough call,but my thicko of the day award goes to Highland Mighty.
He trys hard but he's just not very bright. Some people are,some aren't,and unluckily for him,he's not.
It's a tendency,for obvious reasons,that is all to prevelant amongst unionists.
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MisterN,

Scotland 08/07/2008 14:23:15
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How is it possible for such a small country like Norway to have such a high GNP? has it anything to do with controlling its own oil resourses by any chance?
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Alan B,

08/07/2008 14:26:55
#Highland Mighty

I did abit of googling it looks like it is predicted that uk gdp per capita will overtake the us this year 2008. However it changes when u calculate it using purchasing power (ppp) as goods and services in the us are alot cheaper.

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MisterN,

Scotland 08/07/2008 14:30:04
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I was wondering when you where going to change back into your other account.

Because anybody and everybody who would have knowledge of such a stockpile has been "interegated" including Saddam himself and all his captured henchmen and countless searches by the military, several intelligence agencies civilian authorities both local and international have come up with nada nothing zilch F*ck all B*gger all nil zero.
And that includes anywhere where a delivery system could be set up to launch WMDs with the range of reaching the UK or the US.
Remember the 40 minute warning?

Maybe you know where they are?
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MisterN,

Scotland 08/07/2008 14:31:18
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Wow where is Scotland? surely we should be on the list because of all of our Union benefits and the fact that we have always had our fair share of the oil revenue?
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All Politicians are the same,

Scotland 08/07/2008 14:31:53
#414

Oh you really have lost the plot! Never been there unable to prove your wild accusations or correct any of the facts that I have provided for you, many correcting your shocking lack of miltary knowledge. I have asked you on several occasions for proof that UK armed forces deliberately target civilians and you cannot provide it. You are a sure fire vote winner with your lunatic views.
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MisterN,

Scotland 08/07/2008 14:34:36
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Well at least I have established youre a troll and highly likely just another one of HMs many other accounts.
So the day hasnt been entirely wasted.
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Alan B,

08/07/2008 14:35:48
#Ayrshire­ Scot

I think highland mighty is confusing gpd per capita ppp and gdp per capita. The uk is apparently predicted by some oxford economist to overtake the US this yr in raw gpd per capita figures but when gpd per capita ppp figures are calculated the uk falls back behind the US due to cheaper goods and services on the US.
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MisterN,

Scotland 08/07/2008 14:37:44
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And do you know how much supporting infrastructure is needed to support a weapon system capable of travelling half way across the world?
Do you know how many people have to be in the loop simply to obtain one let alone build and maintain one?
And how many trails there would be to trace the many parts needed to build such a system? or do you think everything could be obtained from Asda or Tesco?
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Alan B,

08/07/2008 14:38:19
This argument about the relative performance of the uk is somewhat irrelevent. If the uk has done so well why has scotland not.

It is one thing to say the whole uk is doing badly another to say england is doing well within the union and scotland is not in relative terms.
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Shaken,

08/07/2008 14:38:42
Lets take Glasgow East as a microcosm of what Labour can do given 50 years of power:

Average life exp - 62 (lower than Bangladesh)

50% of adults have no school qualifications

50% of adults are on benefits

The people who live here are so badly educated, so emmersed in crime and depravation that they continue to vote Labour!

Well done to Labour, the Union and all who support you.
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Shaken,

08/07/2008 14:38:51
Lets take Glasgow East as a microcosm of what Labour can do given 50 years of power:

Average life exp - 62 (lower than Bangladesh)

50% of adults have no school qualifications

50% of adults are on benefits

The people who live here are so badly educated, so emmersed in crime and depravation that they continue to vote Labour!

Well done to Labour, the Union and all who support you.
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08/07/2008 14:39:07
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Shaken,

08/07/2008 14:39:29
Just in case you missed it my posts are what's called...... the point of the article
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Alan B,

08/07/2008 14:41:24
#Highland Mighty

I believe it is a prediction for 2008 not actual figures that have come about yet.

http://theglitteringeye.com/?p=3413
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MisterN,

Scotland 08/07/2008 14:44:19
444


Are you? how about a global economist? or an expert in constituional law? what exactly is your "expertise"
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