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Controversial incinerators plan to help Scotland hit green targets

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Published Date:
25 January 2008
MINISTERS yesterday outlined radical plans to make Scotland one of the greenest countries in Europe with an ambitious target to send just 5 per cent of household waste to landfill sites by 2025.
Seven or eight waste incineration plants – likely to prove controversial – could be built to take up to 25 per cent of waste, while recycling rates would be dramatically increased from 30 per cent today to 70 per cent.

Richard Lochhead, the Scottish environment secretary, said Scotland must "aspire to be up there with the best" recycling countries in Europe as part of the fight against climate change

He signalled he wanted to see small-scale, highly efficient incinerators which utilise heat created by the process. These are able to convert about 80 per cent of the waste's energy into heating, while incinerators that simply create electricity are less than half as efficient.

Speaking at the Scottish Parliament, Mr Lochhead said: "Across Europe, the most impressive municipal recycling rates being achieved now are 60 per cent to 70 per cent– double Scotland's rate.

"Scotland must aspire to be up there with the best. So today I am proposing targets for municipal waste of a minimum of 50 per cent by 2013 and a further aspirational target of a minimum of 70 per cent by 2025.

"At the heart of our policy proposals is a commitment to move Scotland towards zero waste. "

Councils in the Lothians had suggested that around 50 per cent of their waste could be incinerated and waste management company Viridor has submitted a planning permission for a 450,000-tonne, combined heat and power facility near Dunbar.

But Mr Lochhead said: "This administration will include our 25 per cent limit for energy from waste technologies in the National Planning Framework at both a national and a regional level.

"We will also lay down conditions to reflect our view that energy from waste plants must deliver a high level of efficiency through combined heat and power or district heating.

"This Government is opposed to large, inefficient energy from waste plants. Such plants could easily become white elephants and drain public funds."

The Scotsman understands that plants capable of taking up to 100,000 tonnes of waste a year would be considered an acceptable size. And eight of these could take the 25 per cent of waste permitted to be incinerated – about 750,000 to 800,000 tonnes at current rates. It is also possible that a higher number of smaller facilities, including anaerobic digestion, gasification and biofuel plants which do not involve burning, could be created.

Heating in most of Lerwick is provided by an energy-from-waste plant which pumps hot water into homes, companies and public buildings.

Jim Grant, of Shetland Council, who was in Edinburgh for a conference, said emissions from the modern incineration process were "insignificant".

Friends of the Earth Scotland "warmly welcomed" the new recycling target.

But Robin Harper MSP, of the Scottish Green Party, said incinerators were "costly, polluting and blight local communities and anyone downwind of them".

Viridor said: "The policy aligns with our proposals."

PLAN TO CUT PLASTIC BAGS

LEGISLATION could be introduced to curtail the "unnecessary use" of plastic bags, Richard Lochhead warned yesterday.

The Scottish Environment Secretary, said the Holyrood administration "could follow California", where shops over a certain size must provide recycling facilities for plastic bags.

"Reducing the unnecessary use of plastic bags is a crucial issue," he said.

The former Scottish Executive made a voluntary agreement with the retailers to reduce the environmental impact of bags.

Mr Lochhead said he may take steps if this approach was not producing results.

How Flanders could be a role model for waste disposal

FLANDERS in Belgium represents a vision of how Scotland might be dealing with its waste in 17 years time.

The region, which has a population of six million, has sent no household waste to landfill sites since 2006, recycling more than 70 per cent and turning almost all the rest into energy. Even 65 per cent of ash from incinerators is recycled although the rest is put in landfill sites.

People also produce dramatically lower levels of waste than those living in Scotland.

The average figure for each household is 560 kilogrammes a year, about half the 1,160kg produced by Scottish homes.

As part of the drive to raise recycling rates from less than 20 per cent in 1991 to the current level, anything that could be recycled was banned from going to landfill sites. A landfill tax and an incineration tax were also introduced to make both of these more expensive than recycling.

And laws were introduced to make people sort their waste.

This was coupled with high quality collection and sorting services with comprehensive kerbside collections, local sites where people can dispose of rubbish and a home composting programme.

Companies making electrical appliances, packaging, oil and newspapers have become financially responsible for their products' waste streams through voluntary agreements.

Manufacturers have also faced a special tax being imposed on their products if they do not ensure they are recycled once used. A scheme to collect old batteries was also set up.

Page 1 of 1

 
1

COLINTON.MAINS,

Oakville Ontario 25/01/2008 01:02:42
YOU.JUST.CUT.DOWN.TREES.ALL.OVER.THE.CITY.DEAR.GOD
2

John Blackley,

Florida 25/01/2008 01:28:24
"Reducing the unnecessary use of plastic bags is a crucial issue," quoth Scotland's wee pretendy Environment Secretary.

Heavens, what a cozy, well-ordered small world that person must inhabit!
3

Navvy,

25/01/2008 02:57:52
This is clearly do-able. So let's do it

R Burns 1786
I'm now arrived-thanks to the gods!-
Thro' pathways rough and muddy,
A certain sign that makin roads
Is no this people's study:
Altho' Im not wi' Scripture cram'd,
I'm sure the Bible says
That heedless sinners shall be damn'd,
Unless they mend their ways.
4

donald,

glasgow 25/01/2008 06:19:10
So Richie has found his true vocation. I have merr respect for the refuse workers, who do a uselful job. than this lot.

"Pride o' Worth".
5

donald,

glasgow 25/01/2008 06:20:36
So Richie has found his true vocation.

I have merr respect for the refuse workers who have to to put up with his rubbish policies.

"Pride o' Worth".
6

donald,

glasgow 25/01/2008 06:20:44
So Richie has found his true vocation. I have merr respect for the refuse workers, who do a uselful job. than this lot.

"Pride o' Worth".
7

LochLomond,

Balloch 25/01/2008 07:25:45
There is an incineration plant near Dundee that does this. They are not without their problems

http://www.eveningtelegraph.co.uk/output/2005/01/20/stoy6737388t0.shtm

I have a couple of innovative suggestions that would make a major contribution to the reduction of waste.

1. Let's start producing proper bags that can be used when shopping (and call them message bags?).

2. Let's create a new system of daily milk deliveries in returnable glass bottle.
8

conservative,

Fife 25/01/2008 07:51:14
Just get on with it - incineration is an obvious way to go. A perfect solution, generating power from waste instead of burying it just as people used to do on their own coal fires before central heating took over. It wasn't hazardous then and it isn't hazerdous now.
9

Unimpressed one,

25/01/2008 08:05:23
#10, But this is using a technological fix for an environmental problem. The greens will have none of it! Once we ban the plastic bags, will be then go on to ban beer cans, buckie bottles, builders' plastic sheeting...because that's what's lying around our streets. Political gesturing at its worst.
10

conservative,

Fife 25/01/2008 08:07:45
My Mum used to put greens on the fire too. Not a bad idea IMHO.
11

Saoghal Beag,

25/01/2008 08:29:03
ofcourse this is an option to avoid massive fines from the EU for failing to meet recycling targets which would end up on the council tax. the argument is not so much environmental as it is financial.
12

Harbinger,

warm as toast 25/01/2008 08:39:35
Nothing controversial at all except for the lies about emissions that will be spread by FoE and Greenpeace.

It's always interesting to check the figures on recycling when comparisons are made with Europe. For example some figures include inert waste like demolition waste, to give a higher figure, ours don't.

Interesting, that Flanders don't send any household waste to landfill, but they do send 35% of the ash from household waste incineration, so aren't they by proxy sending waste to landfill?

In the right place landfill is fine and can produce significant energy from methane. Like everything there should be a mix of solutions, horses for courses. Leave the EU out of it and come up with the best technology for each situation.
13

Gothic Rose,

25/01/2008 09:17:47
Around this area they still use the "Gardeloo"system.
14

Captain Flint,

Edinburgh 25/01/2008 09:22:19
This is not the right way to go, and I think that the SNP secretly knows that. But there are impending European Landfill Directive targets looming on the horizon, and local authorities stand to face large fines if they don't meet them. The big waste management companies, sensing a nice wee marketing opportunity, have been whispering in the councils' ears:

"See if you miss your targets? You'll get a massive fine. Just buy one of our incin .. er... energy from waste plants and all your problems will go away"

It's a seductive message, but it's not a sustainable solution. Rather than using a technological sticking plaster to deal with our waste, we need to deal with the problem at source. We need to address our throwaway waste culture, and also we need to stop thinking of stuff that we don't need anymore as "waste".

It might be waste to us, but to somebody somewhere it's a resource. Virtually everything we throw away can be used again for something way more useful than burning. Food waste, for example, can be safely composted and returned to the land. All paper and plastic (all the high energy stuff that incinerators need) can be recycled. If we got our acts together and did that, we'd meet our targets no bother. So why the devil aren't we doing it?
15

carrottop,

Dumfries 25/01/2008 09:34:26
Indicitive of Scotlands third world status that we are still talking about what we are going to do when most of Europe is already doing it. Fifty years of socialism has made us all equal, at the lowest level.
16

McMicrogal,

25/01/2008 09:45:12
#17 you seem to be very misinformed with regards to recycling. Commercial composting is in theory a fine idea, but such a facility would have a very large footprint. Where do you propose we site such a facility? The Meadows? Not all paper is suitable for recycling, envelopes contain glue which is not desireable and newspapers contain toxins in the ink. Plastics are only recyclable under aerobic conditions (the bacteria involved require oxygen) which brings us back to commercial composting.

We are a small country that is rapidly running out of space. We need solutions that are appropriate to our nation. Yes we need to reduce, re-use and re-cycle far more than we do, but for all the stuff that is left, we need rid without producing tons of deadly methane. Incinerators are a sensible solution despite what the environmental pressure groups would have you believe. Now can we propose that we are allowed to resume burning human waste pellets at Longannet too as a sustainable contribution to the grid?
17

pehman,

sussex 25/01/2008 09:53:06
Rules etc,

You make a fair point, but in the cities waste can be loaded onto trains for transport.

Can I input something here ----- why not just put all our rubbish in one bin, and get prisioners in the jails to sort it out before sending the rest to be incinerated.

That would really be of service to the community
18

cabrach loon,

inverness 25/01/2008 10:03:07
Surely most plastic bags are reused for household rubbish - better far than buying extra special ones - but why does Inverness (Highland council) not collect and recycle plastic bottles, containers, tetrabloks etc. as they do in Europe, ditto paper other han nespaper? Their recycling is only halfway there surely! and they can do very much better.
19

subrosa,

25/01/2008 10:29:18
# 17

I'll tell you why I'm not doing recycling. I just don't have space to have a box for paper, a box for glass, a box for cans, a box for other waste. Then I have to carry all this out to the pavement. Recycling to the nth degree takes up space and that's the main reason it's not done. Now, if someone came up with a waste bin that was small enough for a small kitchen and had separate compartments.....
20

McMicrogal,

25/01/2008 10:29:56
#21 putting rubbish into plastic bags to go to landfill actually prevents the stuff from biodegrading as it helps cut out oxygen and increases the anaerobic conditions in a landfill site. It would be better not to bag our rubbish in this way, but we are squeamish about dirty wheelie bins.

As I said above, plastics including so-called recycleable ones, do not decompose in the anaeroic conditions in a landfill site. If Inverness does not have a commercial composting facility suitable for this purpose then collecting such items for recycling is a waste of time.
21

McMicrogal,

25/01/2008 10:31:34
#22 try IKEA. Though you will still need to carry it out to the pavement, though is that really that much effort?
22

New Town Resident,

25/01/2008 10:32:09
-14. Alas we can't leave the EU out of it because power in this area has already been handed over to them.

All our "government" is doing is handing down Brussels decrees that have been sent down to them (via Westminster).

The EU one size fits all prescription against landfill is totally inappropriate for Scotland because of the large amount of open cast mines and quarries we already have (unlike say Flanders) - they will have to be filled up with something eventually will they not?

Like global warming, see this policy for what it is. It is a political movement based on spurious science to justify political centralisation and the channelling of taxpayers monies to subsidise uneconomic projects such as incinerators and windmills - both are actually highly environmentally damaging (visual, nature etc.) and not wanted by their neighbours.
23

Doh,

25/01/2008 10:33:02
Is this really a burning question?
24

New Town Resident,

25/01/2008 10:41:26
25

Should have added to my note that I'm all in favour of cutting waste by not causing it in the first place - largely a packing industry issue.

However recycling after the event in many cases is plain daft (however much it makes peole "feel good") - the economic and environmental costs of seperation and disposal far outweigh the economic and environmental costs of landfill. If we didn't have good sites for landfill that would be another matter - but in Scotland we have them in abundance.

So we'll build incinerators to avoid handing over our money to Europe in "fines" and fill up the open cast mines with top soil? Madness, which all comes from the slavish adherence to pro Brussels policies.
25

Slioch,

Scottish Highlands 25/01/2008 10:44:31
Just for interest, this from the Sunday Herald, 17th February 2002:

"Jack McConnell is to launch an unprecedented drive to reverse Scotland's reputation as the environmental "dirty man of Europe", given its lamentable record on pollution, waste and sustainable development."

"The Scottish Executive is under investigation for 19 breaches of environmental law, including failures to curb pollution, control waste and protect wildlife"
26

ascrever,

Fife 25/01/2008 10:47:03
Scotland currently has no commercial factory to use waste mixed plastic as a feedstock. There is no route for constructive recycling of mixed plastics in this country.
The option proposed of incineration, hopefully in combined heat and power plants, is a big step forward, but should not the Scottish Government promote the construction of a facility to take mixed plastic from the waste stream and manufacture low-purity usefull products such as paving, insulation or fence posts? The Moss Morran gas plant promoters promised downstream manufacturing as a spin-off back in 1978. Here is the oportunity to combine waste plastics with raw fuel gas to create a new business stream. There is space available for a new plant and skilled operators in the area. Let us see our major industrialists and Government cooperating to be constructive!
27

Fairfax,

25/01/2008 10:50:57
McMicrogal (19): "We are a small country that is rapidly running out of space."

Perhaps you're thinking of England instead of Scotland! Scotland's population density is low, at 65 people per square kilometre in 2003, and there is much marginal land. Hence landfill/composting might, in fact, be the environmentally most suitable option for Scotland.

For England, the data are very different: England has a population density of 383 per sq km, whilst London reaches 4700 per sq km. You can find these statistics here:

http://www.statistics.gov.uk/cci/nugget.asp?id=760
28

TimW1234,

Ottawa, Canada 25/01/2008 10:57:36
16 Gothic Rose

What, exactly, is "the Gardeloo system'? Sounds slightly icky and obscene to me.

That idiot from Florida still does not realise that platic bags take aeons to break down in landfills unless they are properly recycled.

Here in Ottawa we can take back our excess plastic bags to grocery supermarkets and those companies dispose of them and make a small profit that they donate to various charities.

Works for us.
29

Thistledhu,

Fife 25/01/2008 11:08:44
none of thes measures will work unless there backed up by robust laws to ensure that recyceling and proper presentation of household waste is done .

With the lazy portion of our population fly tipping will go through the roof.
30

McMicrogal,

25/01/2008 11:14:15
#30 much of our land is not suitable for such use as it is granite and other such solid structures. Please don't give England the idea that we have space for more landfill or we will find Westminster shipping all the muck up from England for us to dispose of just like they wanted to with nuclear waste!

Using disused quarries and mines is also not a good solution. Not conducive to aerobic degradation with the result that they will become reservoirs of methane. It is a far more complex issue than either our Government or the environmental pressure groups are letting on.
31

paolo,

edinburgh 25/01/2008 11:15:36
"Friends of the Earth Scotland "warmly welcomed" the new recycling target."
Very good job friends of the Earth!!!


http://www.beppegrillo.it/eng/2007/06/death_comes_from_the_air.html

http://www.buckinghamshireadvertiser.co.uk/archives/2007/08/incinerator_can.html

http://www.hazards.org/nanotech/safety.htm

...and so on.

When the wind will blow from East to Edinburgh I will feel so green breathing all those lovely nano particles!
32

,

25/01/2008 11:39:36
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
33

bill-alba,

fife 25/01/2008 11:39:57
I live in a block of flats, each flat has a wheelie bin and most people in the flats put all their rubbish in that bin..despite the fact that the recycling bins for the village are about 20ft away, is it them just being lazy?? I would say yes..the bin men should see if stuff in the bin and if so leave a note that the bin is not being emptied until the user of that bin sorts out the stuff that can be recycled (a bit draconian, but needed just the same)
34

bill-alba,

fife 25/01/2008 11:41:14
above should read bin men should see if stuff in the bin can be recycled and if so etc..
35

Neil,

Glasgow 25/01/2008 12:26:32
Personally I am in favour of incinerators. Done properly they would be a way to replace some coal powered electricity generators. They also seem to be a sensible way of disposing of a lot of our waste.

But the idea that they are "greener" because the CO2 they produce doesn't count shows how divorced from any reality the entire eco-fascist movement is.
36

orangepeel,

25/01/2008 12:34:25
"And laws were introduced to make people sort their waste."

They _could_ do that here, however it would be somewhat underminded by the private contractors who come to empty the recycling bins on our street. First they empty the green bin then, in a fit of illogic, empty the blue bin into the same bloody truck!

Seen that happen about 4 times now.
37

Fairfax,

25/01/2008 12:43:22
McMicrogal (33): "#30 much of our land is not suitable for such use as it is granite and other such solid structures."

There remains, however, much space that is suitable.

"Please don't give England the idea that we have space for more landfill"

I'm English.
38

TimW1234,

Ottawa, Canada 25/01/2008 13:09:16
unimpressed one

You are a rude and obscene person. I have requested that your posting be removed as it contravenes the guidelines of this site.

40 bogmon

He agrees with my assessment of your meagre intellectual talents by his calling you a "pillock". BUt what is one to expect of a person (?) who barely survived grade school?

It seems you don't like to exchange ideas with any intelligence or tolerance or mannerly language.

Are you on drugs or drink or just a nasty piece of work?

Do tell, noxious numptie.
39

The Strategist,

25/01/2008 14:24:48
Couple of points..

1. Incineration is a useful source of both heat and energy and with efficient modern plant emissions are limited. There's no reason why this technique shouldn't be used as an alternative to landfill.

2. Landfill sites produce a useful amount of methane which can and is used to generate power. It's better than releasing it straight into the atmosphere.

40

Gothic Rose,

25/01/2008 14:39:29
Tim ignore Unimpressed one. How do the super- markets dispose of said plastic bags? "Gardeloo" is a Scottish interpretation of the French "Regarder l`eau" Called out supposedly, before tipping the ablutions out of the window.I am sure that you know this,and to any Gallic posters,may I say its most probably Apocryphal.
41

Destroy the Planet,

25/01/2008 15:36:49
"putting rubbish into plastic bags to go to landfill actually prevents the stuff from biodegrading as it helps cut out oxygen and increases the anaerobic conditions in a landfill site."

MUSIC TO MY EARS ! DESTROY THE PLANET !
42

Tweedmouth,

Coldstream 25/01/2008 15:42:50
Interesting isnt it that 10 years ago Friends of the Earth were fighting to stop incinerators in Edinburgh- now this is the 'environmentally friendly' option for green-fascists.

Incinerators produce dioxins - the most deadly cancer causing chemicals known to science. If you burn complex plastics in incinerators you produce lots of dioxins.

Theya re already burning 50,000 tonnes of rubber tyres and 10,000 tonnes of liquid solvents in the Dunbar cement works - in a cement kiln! And guess where Edinburghs city waste goes to already - Dunbar - several train loads a day. Whether you want it or not - your waste is going to be burned and vast amounts of pollution will go up the chimney. ANd hundreds of greenwash spin doctors are hard at work already figuring how to brainwash the vote fodder into applauding this insanity.
43

abc1234,

25/01/2008 15:48:36
PLANs for huge incinerators should be judged with caution. They are not a panicea for all waste and waste-production issues.

Dunbar is by far not the location for a massive incineration plant.

Locate incinerators close to source of waste.... make them smaller and many (create a 'market place'). Also less transportation costs (green house Gases!) is one benefit - I bet transportation-pollution is not factored in when calculating the effects of building large incinerators.




44

Johnny D,

25/01/2008 16:34:52
Vote for Edinburgh to be on the world edition of Monopoly - http://www.monopolyworldvote.com/en_GB/world
45

Andrew Allan,

25/01/2008 18:35:59
'Austria's campaign against waste
By Liz Mackean
Newsnight





Watch the report
The days of the all conquering Habsburgs are long gone but Austria, even from within its reduced borders, still dreams of domination.

In its sights are the mountains of waste that we in the civilised Western world chuck away each year.

Austrians throw out as much as we do, about half a tonne each per year: it's what they do with it that is so different.

"There are so many regulations," sighs Marcus von Habsburg Lothringen.

He ushers me into the room from where his great grandfather Emperor Franz Joseph declared war on Serbia - triggering the events that led to the First World War and the fall of the Habsburg Empire.

As a humble citizen, Marcus is expected to do his bit for Austria's campaign against waste.

He gestures around the Kaiservilla, the palace he calls home:

"You are supposed to separate your waste but with so many visitors here, from so many languages, it all gets put into one bin. I have a special... agreement."

Waste discipline

But beyond the Kaiservilla, Austrians have taken to the principle of waste separation with a zeal which gives them one of the best recycling rates in Europe.

Sixty per cent of everything they throw away gets re-used, compared with just 27% in the UK. Only Greece recycles less than we do.


Karola Jemann shows me round the family kitchen in Salzburg. "We recycle almost everything."

Her bin is divided into five compartments, for plastic, glass, food waste, Tetra Paks (those foil-lined cartons for juice and milk) and paper.

It all gets taken away separately to be recycled. This takes discipline but her husband Richard puts it down to habit and tradition.

"My first birthday," he says, "I was trained to put the paper in a separate pile. We are used to it. Also, our culture is a very old culture. And we have a long history for keeping the environment clean."

Legal obligation
46

Andrew Allan,

25/01/2008 18:37:42
Continued from #50.

As in the UK, a fifth of all household waste comes from packaging. But in Austria, the shops themselves are required by law to deal with it.

The incentive has come not from fines but the huge charges now levied for landfilling, viewed throughout Europe as primitive.

Even worse, the amount of methane landfills produce means they're a big contributor to greenhouse gas emissions.

Fifteen years ago, Austrians buried virtually all household waste. Now it's just 15 per cent.

The City of Vienna is working towards a target of just 2 per cent.

City incentives

To encourage the recycling effort the authorities have scattered "bring centres", or drop-off points, for waste across the city.

There are 1,500, located in the busiest areas. So visitors to Franz Joseph's Viennese palace, which Hitler later occupied, can easily dispose of their plastic bottles or paper wrappers.

A lot of what can't be recycled gets burnt. The Viennese have come to accept incineration in a way that we in the UK have not.

When the main incinerator was damaged by fire, one of Austria's most famous artists, Friedensreich Hundertwasser, was persuaded to redesign it.


He did it on condition that the latest filters were built into the chimney. With the quirky, colourful style for which he's famous, the gold and ceramic-decorated incinerator is now on the tourist trail.

Collectively Vienna's waste treatment plants provide heat for around a third of the city.

Waste prevention

But the powers that be aren't only interested in getting rid of waste, they're acting to prevent it altogether. The government sponsors annual "sustainability weeks" to raise awareness about the need to recycle more and throw away less.

And waste prevention is an integral part of the planning that goes into major public events. Long before a ball's been kicked, the organisers of next year's Euro 2008 championships have enlisted the help of a consultant from t
47

Andrew Allan,

25/01/2008 18:39:43
Continued from #50
the country's Institute of Ecology.

Manfred Koblmuller is urging them to give fans reusable glasses. In Salzburg, where three games are to be held, he estimates it would spare the city 51 tonnes of plastic waste.

In Austria they boast that when they see a European waste directive, they try to beat it - such a different instinct from the UK.

It's about the mindset. This is a country where waste is not something simply to be got rid of, it's something to bring back, again and again.

Liz MacKean's report was shown on Newsnight on Monday, 16 July.


48

McMicrogal,

25/01/2008 18:52:28
#41 please don't be offended,I have no argument with any INDIVIDUAL of any nationality, I just object to the way that Westminster thinks they can ship rubbish from England to be taken care of in Scotland. It is a bit insulting.
49

Slioch,

Scottish Highlands 25/01/2008 19:04:17
One of the problems with incinerators is that, once built, they can attract waste that should, and that otherwise would, be recycled. They also reduce the incentive for manufacturers to design goods so that they may easily be recycled or re-used. In other words, the tail of incineration wags the dog of recycling, rather than the other way round.

This is because, in a large structure such as an incinerator, revenue increases as the amount of waste burnt increases, whereas most costs are fixed or increase less rapidly. Thus maximising the amount of waste burnt maximises income.

The provision in the above proposal, viz. "This administration will include our 25 per cent limit for energy from waste technologies in the National Planning Framework at both a national and a regional level", appears to take this objection into account, though whether the 25% limit is correct or too high is difficult to judge. It is undeniably the case that a certain amount of the waste stream cannot be recycled and for this fraction it is better to obtain district heating by its incineration than chucking it in a hole in the ground.
50

Caora Dubh,

Crit sheasgair 25/01/2008 19:42:50
Human airways become progressively worse at filtering out particles less than 10 microns in diameter as the particles become smaller, and are especially bad at preventing particles less than 3 microns in diameter from settling in the lungs. Combustion particles fall into this category, and if plastics, solvents, glues, coatings etc are being burnt, these particles will inevitably contain many potent carcinogens. (The strictest filtering regulations for diesel exhausts are next to useless, because they put no curbs on the emissions of the truly harmful tiny particles that penetrate deep into the lungs and cause cancer.) The methane gas released by anaerobic composting can be burnt cleanly, but unfortunately much methane will leak into the atmosphere, and methane is a potent greenhouse gas.
51

Liberal for life,

Dunblane 25/01/2008 20:35:17
And today they turned the wind turbine development in Lewsis despite the local councils support. It was jobs as well as fitting into the big plan to reduce CO2 emmissions when nuclear power only yesterday (or was it the day before) was ruled out. In this area Bruce Crawford is also objecting to a wind farm in typical NIMBY fashion so how on earth are the SNP planning to reach targets in 20-30 years time - ah yes I forgot, they won't be in power any longer once people suss they are a shower of populist politicians who dont have a decent policy initative to offer us long term.
52

Jock Tamson,

Scotland, Caledonia, Alba 25/01/2008 21:01:56
Liberal for life. Can you tell me who was responsible for that abortion of a wind farm opposite Dunblane High School? I ask as I do not know.

I do happen to think that incineration to provide energy could also include crematoria.

Nothing is perfect until it is perfected. By that time it is obsolete. Most perfectionists with typewriters create a perpetual virtual utopia which lasts about as long as it takes them to type their message.
53

scotsdoc,

NANAIMO BC CANADA 25/01/2008 23:27:07
...."He signalled he wanted to see small-scale, highly efficient incinerators which utilise heat created by the process. These are able to convert about 80 per cent of the waste's energy into heating, while incinerators that simply create electricity are less than half as efficient."......

Something crazy here. Explanation required as to why small units are more efficient than larger furnaces designed to raise steam for electrical generation.
There are all sorts of CO-GENERATION POWER PLANTS across here, where virtually all the heat is used in Papermills or Chemical plants, etc.
54

Liberal for life,

Dunblane 25/01/2008 23:41:14
#57 - I reckon the same people who can save this planet from extinction if given half the chance. Don't you realise that science evolves and once a safer, "prettier on the eye" solution, has been discovered then the wind farms can be easily dismantled, taken away, and your view restored to its former glory. One cannot get rid of nuclear waste so easily. So waken up to the harsh choices in life - ugly view for a few years or nuclear waste for an eternity - its no contest in my book for the sake of the genuine "Jock Tamsons bairns". I really despair sometimes of you kind of plonkers.
55

AJM,

26/01/2008 09:38:35
#53 Please do not be offended but a county council I know about south of the border recycles for more than my local council up here. They have had fortnightly 2 bin collection for about 10 yrs. We cannot recycle half of what they do, so rather than being insulted it might be worth having a look at what the more progressive counties are doing. Try not to throw out the usual snp anti westminster line.
56

mark jacobs,

edinburgh 26/01/2008 20:08:39
i pay huge ctax so i let the council do all my recycling for me as it should be ,but if it makes you feel good to do the councils work for them by recycling all your stuff then carry on .
57

Hamish MacBeth,

NZ 27/01/2008 08:47:07
The thing is to reduce waste at the very beginning, all this packaging is paid for by us.
58

abc1234,

Guildford 28/01/2008 14:25:42
#59- you quoted
"....then the wind farms can be easily dismantled, taken away, and your view restored to its former glory."
-------------------
This is an inaccuracy - the view will not be restored... the wind farm might (unlikely) be dismantled, but the tracks/roads that are used to install/service the turbines are not likely to be "taken up".... what will remain will be a 'gash' on the landscape.

NUCLEAR - is a definite for our future. Unless people are willing to walk to work, eat cold food in cold houses, and not use the TV, mobile phone, computer - we are totally dependent on electricity.... nuclear or similar, is needed for base load. Wind is too fickle though can contribute.
59

11+failed,

03/04/2008 08:44:42
To stop all the clamouring from communities to have the first incinerator, we should agree to have the first incinerator on Richard Lochhead's doorstep.

 

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