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Can it get any worse, Gordon?

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Published Date:
25 January 2008
GORDON Brown's troubled premiership hit its biggest crisis to date yesterday, with the resignation of a Cabinet minister and a humiliating climbdown over capital-gains tax.
Peter Hain, who held the dual roles of Work and Pensions and Wales Secretary, quit after police were called in to investigate whether he deliberately concealed donations of £103,000.

The resignation of a Cabinet minister only seven months into his time in No 10 is a major blow to Mr Brown, coming on top of Northern Rock, the lost data discs and last autumn's election that never was.

But equally damaging for a party that has based its success on economic competence was an announcement by Alistair Darling, the Chancellor, that he would U-turn on changes to capital-gains tax, following concerns from the business community.

Mr Brown came to power promising a "new" approach from his post-Blair administration, but Mr Hain's resignation has been viewed as the first "domino" of his government.

The Prime Minister is now under pressure to explain why he did not sack Mr Hain two months ago when questions were first raised over his failure to declare donations.

To add to his woes, Mr Brown was on a collision course with his back-benchers over anti-terror laws, after the Counter Terrorism Bill was published.

Mr Brown's bad day began when he fielded a phone call from Mr Hain at 11:30am.

The latter felt his position was no longer tenable as the Electoral Commission had referred his campaign donations to the Metropolitan Police. Mr Hain has always insisted his failure to declare the donations for his failed bid to become Labour's deputy leader was an accident.

In a statement to reporters yesterday, he said he regretted what had happened and that he felt he had "no alternative" but to resign.

Mr Brown's official spokesman said Mr Hain "was clear in his own mind" that it was the right thing for him to do. "The Prime Minister accepted it… it was not a protracted conversation," he said.

Downing Street emphasised that Mr Brown just wanted to "get on with the business of government" – he later held talks with President George Bush by video link.

In an exchange of letters with Mr Hain, the Prime Minister wrote: "I recognise that, given the circumstances and your desire to clear your name, this is the right and honourable thing to do. I also recognise that in making this decision you have, as ever, put the country's interests before your own."

Mr Hain said in his resignation letter to Mr Brown: "I made a mistake but it was an innocent mistake."

Mr Hain's fate threw the spotlight on others caught up in controversies over undeclared gifts – including Harriet Harman, a string of Labour officials and Gordon Brown's chief fundraiser, Jon Mendelsohn. It is not yet clear whether Wendy Alexander's donation for her Scottish leadership campaign will trigger a police investigation.

Despite months of speculation over donations, the Prime Minister appeared to have been caught unawares by yesterday's resignation. It took him four hours to announce the first name in the reshuffle, which saw the return of Paul Murphy as Wales Secretary. That raised questions as to why Des Browne, the Defence Secretary, should juggle the role of Scottish Secretary, while Wales has its own dedicated Cabinet post.

There is speculation that Mr Brown plans an amalgamation of both offices, along with that of Northern Ireland, to create one department for the nations and regions.

Danny Alexander, the Liberal Democrat work and pensions spokesman, compared Mr Brown's premiership to John Major's ill-fated government. "The transition from Blair to Brown feels increasingly like the transition from Thatcher to Major," he said.

"We have had the return of government incompetence, economic turmoil and political sleaze. We all remember John Major clinging on to ministerial colleagues, only to lose them in the end, and now Gordon Brown is doing the same."

Chris Grayling, the shadow work and pensions secretary, said: "This is not the fresh government that Gordon Brown promised last summer. When the Labour Party is facing not one but two police investigations, there is a real issue for Gordon Brown to address."

Angus MacNeil, the SNP MP who sparked the cash-for-honours inquiry, said: "This is the first domino of Gordon Brown's Cabinet resignations. The Electoral Commission had no option, in reality, but to give this to the police."

The prospect of a police inquiry escalated after it was revealed some of Mr Hain's donations had been funnelled through a think-tank that appeared to exist only to give cash to his campaign. It had not carried out any work or research since its inception.

At almost the same time Mr Hain was offering his resignation to Mr Brown, Mr Darling was criticised for performing a U-turn on capital-gains tax.

Following strong criticism from industry, Mr Darling unveiled a new "entrepreneurs' relief", providing a 10 per cent tax rate for up to £1 million of gains. The Tories termed that a "humiliating" reversal of a government policy unveiled in October's pre-budget report, while business leaders described it as "superficial" and said it would make little difference.

As Mr Brown's bad day continued, government hopes of a cross-party consensus on its plans to extend detention of terror suspects without charge to 42 days lay in tatters after Jacqui Smith, the Home Secretary, published the Counter Terrorism Bill.

Both the Conservatives and the Liberal Democrats said her plans risked alienating Muslims and driving people into terrorism.

A recent survey of Labour MPs showed that more than enough of them planned to rebel to cause a government defeat.

Ms Smith said she was still hopeful of winning cross-party agreement on the need to increase the pre-charge questioning limit from 28 days to 42.

She added that she would get the legislation passed, despite the threat of a back-bench rebellion.

BROWN PROMOTES TWO YOUNG GUNS

TWO ministers in their thirties were promoted to top Cabinet jobs last night.

James Purnell, 37, who was Culture Secretary, replaces Mr Hain as Work and Pensions Secretary, with Stephen Timms as his deputy. Mr Purnell faced controversy recently when it transpired he had doctored a photo to fake his presence at an event.

Andy Burnham, 38, who was Chief Secretary to the Treasury, is now Culture, Media and Sport Secretary.

Yvette Cooper, the wife of Ed Balls, the Children's Secretary, is promoted to Chief Secretary to the Treasury.

Paul Murphy returns to government as the Wales Secretary. But there is speculation the Prime Minister will create a new department for the regions and nations, amalgamating the Scotland, Northern Ireland and Wales offices, to reflect the post-devolution realities.

Liam Byrne becomes a Treasury minister, on top of his duties as a Home Office minister, while Caroline Flint is promoted to minister of state at the Department for Communities.

MPs TOE THE LINE OVER PAY RISE

MPs have accepted a below-inflation pay rise after Gordon Brown, the Prime Minister, urged them to accept the figure, in line with that awarded to public sector workers.

A day after thousands of police marched through Westminster in protest against their own staged pay rise, MPs balked at the prospect of outraging key workers by insisting on an above-inflation hike for themselves. The 1.9 per cent increase was accepted without a vote.

It also emerged last night that the MPs' pension fund faces a £49 million black hole as a result of contribution holidays taken by successive governments.

Scandals threaten to turn 'clunking fist' into an ineffectual ditherer

ANALYSIS: Gerri Peev

JUST seven months after promising a fresh approach to government in an attempt to draw a line under the Tony Blair era, Gordon Brown has been forced into a major reshuffle triggered by a funding scandal.

Business as usual, critics would say.

But the fact that a police investigation has been triggered by Peter Hain's slack accounting means the government's reputation will be clouded by controversy for months to come, even if no charges transpire.

The confirmation of another Scotland Yard investigation into Labour finances wrecked Mr Brown's new year relaunch and leaves the impression that the party is cavalier when it comes to funding issues.

After several months of difficulty, Mr Brown had temporarily steadied his ship, regained some confidence and attacked David Cameron with conviction during Prime Minister's Questions for several weeks.

But this third police investigation into Labour finances threatens the tentative optimism with the prospect of a different sort of conviction. It also raises questions over Mr Brown's judgment.

Critics say Mr Hain should have been sacked at the first whiff of controversy over his finances. After failing to call an election last autumn, despite allowing speculation to mount, the reluctance on Mr Brown's part to sack Mr Hain further reinforces his image as indecisive. Instead, Mr Brown devolved Mr Hain's fate to an unelected body, the Electoral Commission.

While Mr Brown had insisted he had full confidence in Mr Hain, he also let slip that the former minister was guilty of "incompetence" when it came to his campaign finances. Critics pounced – if Mr Hain could not remember receiving £103,000 in donations, how could he be trusted with a departmental budget of billions?

Mr Brown has been branded a ditherer by the opposition. Tories have attacked him for making no decisions on Northern Rock. He has announced at least 30 reviews into existing government policies, but apart from repeating his plans for tinkering with the constitution, little new to captivate the public imagination.

Starting with the election backdown, Mr Brown's troubles mounted: the loss of tax discs and personal details of every child benefit recipient; allowing the Tories to take the lead on inheritance tax; the near collapse of Northern Rock; and the snub by other EU leaders at the signing of the reform treaty to name just a few.

But it was Vince Cable's charge – when he was acting Lib Dem leader – that Mr Brown had turned from Stalin to Mr Bean overnight, that has the most poignancy. What started as a joke that the Prime Minister turned "order into chaos" was beginning to ring true.

Mr Brown has tried to re-energise his Cabinet by promoting two under-40s, both of them Blairites. He has also reorganised the machinery at Downing Street and the Treasury – a clear admission that things had not been going to plan.

But the jury is still out on whether his "clunking fist" is strong enough to smash the next raft of difficult events heading his way, starting with an economic meltdown.

Page 1 of 1

  • Last Updated: 24 January 2008 11:58 PM
  • Source: The Scotsman
  • Location: Edinburgh
  • Related Topics: Labour Party
 
1

Roberta Burns,

25/01/2008 00:07:36
I'll bet he never saw this coming when he was a young Labour activist. Hell mend, ye, Gordon for the taking the Bliar route to hell.
2

Chris.J,

Edinburgh 25/01/2008 00:07:43
"Can it get any worse, Gordon?"

With any luck, yes.
3

Jim Baxter RIP,

Sai Kung Hng Kong 25/01/2008 00:08:40
New Labour. The war mongering party of Sleeze, Sleeze, Sleeze.
4

pehman,

sussex 25/01/2008 01:20:27
They tried to stop big tam making donations to the SNP they tried to tie the SNP down, poetic justice I say. lets hope the courts nail the criminals to the floor
5

,

25/01/2008 01:30:07
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
6

senza nome,

25/01/2008 01:43:34
I see My Lord Foulkes of Cumnock was on both channels last night complaining about "cyber-nats" who stay up after midnight abusing the Labour Party.You must have him rattled.
The make-up people on STV must be better than on BBC.His neb was much less red on the former channel.
7

Keren, It's time,

Destination planet miaow!! 25/01/2008 02:01:06
Can it get any worse Gordon?

Yes oh yes believe me!

You lose the next election including several seats to the SNP and your career is over! In fact in a few years these current times will look like your best!!

Miaoww!!
8

GalacticCannibal,

Murrieta, CA..captured from Mexico 1845 25/01/2008 02:21:11
11
Col. Blimp IV*,

An old guy over here from England asked me, did i know how many half crowns in a 10 bob note.

I thought U dudes dealt in ££ pound notes not in €€ euros.

Do you know what this dude is talking about.

And try not to be sarcastic with Ur response. Dude.

GC
9

Murray in Canada,

Salt Spring Island 25/01/2008 03:19:18
12 GC: Ten bob = ten shillings, and a half crown is two and a half shillings, so there are four to equal a ten bob note. - Not that they exist any more of course.
10

Faye,

25/01/2008 03:41:56
It isn't Gordon Brown's fault the Americans have screwed up their economy. He is getting blamed for everything and anything.

It's a tory witch hunt and an attempt to make him look bad, undecisive as a PM.

Labour shouldn't be afraid of the N word. Nationalise the Northern Rock, it would be better for the taxpayer.





11

Sierra Foothills Scot,

Diamond Springs 25/01/2008 03:43:26
#12 "Galactic Cannibal" seems not to realize the£ was decimalized years ago.
12

Faye,

25/01/2008 04:02:54
#12 GalacticCannibal

Hey GC

Are you ready? Here's something that you might use on your Old English Gent.

4 farthings = 1 penny (1d)
2 half pennies = 1 penny (1d) = 0.416 6p
12 pence = 1 shilling (1/-) = 5p
2 shillings = 1 florin (2/-) = 10p
2 shillings & sixpence = 1 half crown(2/6) = 12.5p
5 shillings = 1 crown (5/-) = 25p
20 shillings = 1 pound (£) = 100p
21 shillings = 1 guinea (£1.1.0) = £1.05


Money slang used in old Pounds, Shillings and Pence

Hape = 1/2d
Copper = 1d
Tanner = 6d
Bob = 1/-
Florin = 2 shillings
Half Dollar/Half Crown = 2/6
Quid/Nicker = £1
Pony = £25
Ton = £100
Grand = £1,000

Pounds, shillings and pence was discontinued on 14th February 1971 in favour of decimal currency. We haven't yet converted to Euros.

100 new pence = one pound £1
and 2 new halfpennies (1/2p)(now discountinued!) = 1 new penny.

Also here in Scotland, many people used to call thrumpence, a thrumpny bit!
13

Faye,

25/01/2008 04:15:04
Thruppence is correct spelling CG. Here's some pictures of these heavy coins. http://gwydir.demon.co.uk/jo/units/money.htm

Happy Haggis day. Burns nicht! Enjoy mouthfulls of the wee hairy beasty, washed down with malt whisky, of course.

Lang may yer lung reek.
14

donald,

glasgow 25/01/2008 06:04:27
The Fifers could aye lose him his seat at the next election.
15

Pilrig.,

Livingston 25/01/2008 06:17:39
GB = Jim Callaghan the 2nd
16

ddmc,

25/01/2008 06:44:35
#16 you missed a score = £20

Maggie broon had the worst bad hair day i've seen in a long time.

I bet bendy wendy is sh|tt|ng herself now !
17

langtonian,

scotus 25/01/2008 07:01:35
#18 donald
awae an bile yere cynical heid
18

Very Rev Ian Paisley,

25/01/2008 07:03:30
Could Wendy give us an update on her position please?

She was elected and the people now want to hear from her!

19

Very Rev Ian Paisley,

25/01/2008 07:05:25
Do you think Gordon will be calling in old friend Margaret Thatcher for a chinwag?



20

Very Rev Ian Paisley,

25/01/2008 07:10:06
I can remember the jubilation when the Labour party were voted in. When they are voted out, I doubt the celebration will be that much different sadly.

Looks like another 12 years of the old etonians looms on the horizon.



21

Richard Taylor,

Aberdeen 25/01/2008 07:13:35
Jackie Baillie defending the indefensible (wee Wendy) this morning!!!! HAHAHAHA - PATHETIC!!!

No, No, Wendy SHOULDN'T resign, EVEN IF THE COMMISSION FIND EVIDENCE OF WRONGDOING!!!

So WHEN does a leader or politician resign & in what circumstances????
22

steve 1511,

aberdeen 25/01/2008 07:19:09
labour more corruption than a banana republic,lies lies and more lies
23

A Better Way,

Edinburgh 25/01/2008 07:34:53
Rulesbutnorulers, they have David Cameron because lets face it they are both right wing, and they dont have a clue or a whole brain between them.

Foul mouthed Wendy is on her way to oblivion. Now our target is to destroy them that have betrayed our Nation and her people. That would be London Controlled New Labour and Nicol the jesse boy who gets spanked by his masters down south. The problem is he appears to like it.
24

Iain fae Elgin,

London 25/01/2008 07:35:33
It's not at all honourable to hang on by your fingertips until pushed off the edge.

Found out, tried to wing it, failed.

Mind you, incompetent though he was, he still has more of the look of a statesman about him that Cameron ever will. Or Broon for that matter...

25

OscarMacApfel,

Dumfries 25/01/2008 07:38:32
#8 Senza Nome

Now let me get this right.

"Do you realise there are cyber activists on the Herald and Scotsman forms posting lies about Labour...through the night?"

Baron George Foulkes von Cumnock.
Newsnicht 24.01.09

I near ended myself.

Madame Apfel, suggested that the last time she'd seeen a nose like that it was attached to Punch.
26

Scottie,

South Afrrica 25/01/2008 07:39:02
I think there was a lovely coin called a 'sovereign' too. Even half-sovereigns as well. I had a gold one once, I wonder where that got to, disappeared long ago :(

SA also called the thruppence a 'thrapinny bit', but also a 'tickey', and the public phones were known as 'tickey boxes'. End of history lesson :)
27

jj veritas,

25/01/2008 07:47:04
Can it get any worse for Gordon? He's a millionaire now with his pension. The real question is.....

Can it get any worse for the taxpayer?
28

ImSparticus,

Fife 25/01/2008 07:48:22
"Can It Get Any Worse" ...... ooo Aye Gordo .. Yer Seat in Fife .. Yer spineless attempt to cling onto power because you were Afraid of loosing yer own seat .. and You Will.
29

eric,

lothian 25/01/2008 07:50:04
Now for the knock on effect,Any beds who will be next!
30

Helmut Smegma,

Edinburgh 25/01/2008 07:54:28
Why does it take a police enquiry to force a politician to tell the truth?
31

Jimmy the Pie,

25/01/2008 08:00:30
Lord Fatty Foulkes was in sparkling form on Newsnicht last nicht. If this is the best that the New Labour Sleaze and Corruption Party can do, then they are doomed. Good!!!
32

Non!!,

East britain 25/01/2008 08:01:08
Gordon, ye're just not up to the job.Better to go now. You have no vestige of credibility left.

Things can only get worse for ye.Ye're nicked!!
33

paulr,

edinburgh 25/01/2008 08:07:27
#12 typical yank, showing your complete ignorance of anything outside your own insular culture.
Ten bob notes and Half Crowns do not exist any more and had nothing to do with euros.
34

paulr,

edinburgh 25/01/2008 08:10:00
"the MPs' pension fund faces a £49 million black hole as a result of contribution holidays taken by successive governments"
GOOD to hear, they should suffer like everyone else, since successive governmnets have helped to plunder all our pensions.
35

Jimmy the Pie,

25/01/2008 08:22:55
Has AM2 been arrested in the polis swoops on the Sleaze and Corruption Party?? He is conspicuous by his absence!!
36

Unimpressed one,

25/01/2008 08:24:22
GB will be hastily looking for an opening in the EU for Hain, where all our failed/corrupt politicians are put out to grass. Probably be a nice little earner too in years to come.
37

Duncan in Edinburgh,

25/01/2008 08:38:40
I'm disgusted yet again by the pro-Labour bias of this newspaper, spinning everything against the SNP and ...

No? Oops, wrong story obviously.
38

The Diplomat,

EDINBURGH 25/01/2008 08:41:41
Re #26

Heard Jackie B on GMS defending the "integrity and honest" of her pal Wee Wendy - when did Wendy acquire, let alone demonstrate, these skills? And we all know how capable is Baron Foulkes of assessing the people skills of folk he works with and for....
39

rancid brown,

Fife 25/01/2008 08:42:52
There could always be another 'terrorist' attack to improve his popularity rating. Didn't something similar happen in July 2005? I vaguely rememeber a sloppy, unconvincing attack at Glasgow Airport that helped Mr Brown out in the past.

www.infowars.com
40

Draco Was a Wimp,

Edinburgh 25/01/2008 09:07:03
History will show Bottler Broon to be the biggest con in modern British political history. His reputation as the 'Iron Chancellor' was total spin; swallowed hook, line qand sinker by a biased and adoring left-leaning media. His early fiscal 'prudence' was based on an inheritance from Ken Clarke. When he finally followed his own instincts, his 'success' was based on the mountains of public and private debt that is now coming back to haunt all of us. As a man, he's a ditherer, a coward, a bully and a psychlogically flawed megalomaniac. He'll inevitably be exposed as the fraud he's always been.
41

Alternative (High Octane) Fuel Head,

Edinburgh 25/01/2008 09:07:44
Labour's in crisis is it? Well, we all know what the labour party do when there is a crisis... all the knee-jerk reactions come out.

Well Gordon, let's see you knee-jerk your way out of this! It really couldn't have happened to a better bloke!

GO TO THE COUNTRY NOW YOU MORON!

BTW: what is happening with "puddles"?
42

Gothic Rose,

25/01/2008 09:14:27
Everywhere,Sloppy Admin. staff.
43

Stephen101,

Is it worth the money? 25/01/2008 09:16:09
What gets me is, why spend over £100,000 to get to deputy leader?

Perhaps AM2 can do the sums on the benefits it brings. Salary, house(s), car(s), overseas holidays/trips each year etc, and what additional benefits do you take with you after you retire from the post?
44

Nikostratos,

25/01/2008 09:17:49
a mere Blip on the horizon......'Things can only get better'........so the song goes
45

Stephen101,

Where's the wee wummin? 25/01/2008 09:18:12
Where is Wendy? Helping the polis wi their enquiries yet?



46

Alternative (High Octane) Fuel Head,

Edinburgh 25/01/2008 09:22:48
#53:

If you read almost any other paper than the Scotsman, it says that "puddles" looks as though she is going to be the next domino to fall.

"Pressure is increasing..." according to the Record and Daily Mail.
47

pehman,

sussex 25/01/2008 09:24:15
The headline asks

Can it get any worse, Gordon?


Well on May the 1st this year are the local elections in England and Wales. So with only 8 weeks to go before the elections get into full gear and with lab predicted to lose 100's of seats, well I think the answer is clear--------lab will have a new leader in london by the end of the year
48

Calum10,

25/01/2008 09:24:59
On this issue more than most Gordon Brown promised that he would not hesitate to act.

The reality is plain for everyone to see:

"While Brown dithers Labour burns."

The thing is no one is suprised. The Labour party north and south of the border is hopelessly incompetent and corrupt.
49

edimck,

Edinburgh 25/01/2008 09:36:09
If Blair to Brown really is a repeat of Thatcher to Major, let's not forget that Major WON his first election against the predictions from opinion polls. Let's hope history does not repeat itself that precisely.....
50

,

25/01/2008 09:44:05
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
51

sceptic,

25/01/2008 09:44:15
Brown is just Blair without the charm, ideas and the ability to lie convincingly.
52

Colkitto,

River Clyde 25/01/2008 09:53:53
I thought Foulkes was hilarious on Newsnight. Is it only ok to have free speech and opinion if you are saying good things about Labour ?
Labour may have most newspapers and TV compnaies in their back pocket, but they don't own the internet or those who frequent it.
And for the record, I'm not a member of any political party !
53

The Diplomat,

EDINBURGH 25/01/2008 09:54:07
re #58 and Lord F - here's his House of Lords biog

http://biographies.parliament.uk/parliament/default.asp?id=25616

We should be thankful for his interest in Scottish Politics given his Caribbean/West Indies trips...and he's a member of the Parliament's "Intelligence" committee...what a laugh!
54

Red Tower,

Dunoon 25/01/2008 09:54:40
Labour is as bent as a £3 note. The only thing that it has going for it is the fact that the Tories are no better.
55

cabrach loon,

inverness 25/01/2008 09:54:48
Surely it is time for the people to be shown the CV's of these all too young persons made ministers - would we give them a really responsiblre job. All too many of these career politicians have never had real jobs and have no ability except to talk and babble - witness some of the ratbags on BBC question time.
Shame thouh on the local electorates for apprioving them and worse still electing them. Big question is always would you yourself employ him or her - if the answer is no don't vote for them - they are not fit for the salary! let alone allowances
56

sceptic,

25/01/2008 10:07:49
#33
"Can it get any worse for Gordon? He's a millionaire now with his pension."
Gordon was a multi-millionaire long ago. Apart from living on expenses and never spending(no private medicine for Gordon, just favoured free NHS for him and family)he owns a number of properties(some now transferred to the wife). His luxury apartment in Edinburgh, never advertised on the open market, was "bought" from an American investment bank.
57

The Former Mr. Angry,

Perth 25/01/2008 10:08:04
Hands in the till, clear incompetence and carelessness with private data, illegal wars costing billions, spending like there's no tomorrow and taxing us blind in the process. Tony may have handed Gordon a poisoned chalice knowing well what his next gravy train was (Europe) but Gordon was pouring the contents for him over the last 10 years!
58

Kate Condie,

Scotland 25/01/2008 10:11:02
Well, I must say the people who are critising Gordon are probably people who could not take on his job because they would not cope with the pressure. He is a good man, witty, intelligent and thoughtful. He cares about the people. Politicians who jump at decisions get it wrong but those who think it through get it right. It would not matter who was prime minister in this country all that would happen to them is crtisicism after criticism, it is time we all helped in making this country a better place and by that I mean starting with the media, let's support all politicians because the way things are going nobody will want to take on the task and then where would we end up eh! A Communist State no doubt.
59

AJ Fife,

25/01/2008 10:14:31
Kate#68,

It's a wee bit early to be on the hard stuff is it no? Maybe you're breakfasting with Lord Foulkes - I bet he disnae put milk on his cornflakes!
60

sceptic,

25/01/2008 10:22:51
#68
"it is time we all helped in making this country a better place and by that I mean starting with the media, let's support all politicians because the way things are going nobody will want to take on the task"
Thank you for the joke of the day. First shoot the messenger(the media). With salary and expenses of 200k/A and no qualifications required there ain't a shortage of volunteers.
61

Major General Puffin-Stuff,

25/01/2008 10:23:48
#12

Hey Dude,

Is the exchange rate still 2 dollars (near enough) to the pound? I JUST remember the days when the dollar was a STRONG currency!
62

sceptic,

25/01/2008 10:33:03
#74
The pound down 8% against the $ since 7th Nov and trending steadily down.
63

yolanda,

25/01/2008 10:34:49
#68. Kate, I will assume that your comment is a joke, because the alternative is too scary.

There will never be a shortage of enthusiastic candidates in politics, because it is one of the few professions where you can be thick, and dishonest, AND raid the till of your employers time after time but still retain the respect of your colleagues.
64

Roberta Burns,

25/01/2008 10:56:13
#76 It is also one of the few professions, like the police, that you don't need qualifications for. It's handy if you know people in the biz.

Does anyone remember the days when politicians wore their hearts on their sleeves and promised to right all the wrongs in society? Gordon, do you and your piggy colleagues remember?
65

Major General Puffin-Stuff,

25/01/2008 10:57:12
#75

The pound is STILL worth near enough 2 dollars!
66

Rasco,

Inverness 25/01/2008 10:59:19
# Scottie don't forget the tickey hock good stuff.
67

AJ Fife,

25/01/2008 11:04:27
Yolanda,

I like your style!
68

Evan Owen,

Snowdonia 25/01/2008 11:12:04
There are many people who could help him, none of them surround him.
69

HEN BROON 5,

25/01/2008 11:13:36
OH MY GOD. How ridiculos is Zebedee going to become.
You can hear the BBC interview for yourself. He wants SNP leaders to stop all sneering, anti-English antagonism as it could lead on to "dangerous things." Time to camp the army at Carlisle! For examples of such remarks he refers to a comment sent into the the Scotsman. But at the same time it is the web itself that has opened the way for dangerous talk, permitting the SNP to “legitimise the cyber nats that come out in the middle of the night blogging onto the Scotsman website”.
Its a wonderful image, bloggers who dare not share their views except at night! Recall the splendid slogan that swept over Ayrshire in a general election in the 1980s: “Vote Labour for Foulkes’ Sake”.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/media/avdb/news/scotland/audio/118000/bb/118054_au_bb.ram

You have to listen to this Cyber-nats if you have not heard it. It truly is the most breath taking hypocritical guff I have ever heard from a politician, and just shows the depth of the Brit-Nats despair and paranoia.
AM2 gets a mention not by name, but he refers to the "list, of perceived grievances of things those beastly Nats have said, "Beware THE KEEPER OF THE LIST, for he shall smite thee." AM2 exposed as Zebedees bagman. Zebedee you are truly paranoid and full of it. Your behaviour in the chamber during First Ministers questions is the most ignorant loutish bitter example of Liebours indignation and denial at being in opposition. Like McNeil and Curran and the gang of shop stewards that haunt the chamber, it is real knuckle dragging behaviour. You talk in a big loud voice over the top of any and in particular The SNP First Minister of The Scottish Goverment, you are a disgrace.
You and your kind are gone from the scene, all that remains is your bitter hollow protests.
If you are so concerned by remarks and behaviour. What about the anti Scottish behaviour by Blair saying first of all that Alex Salmond was "self indulgent," and then still not h
70

HEN BROON 5,

25/01/2008 11:15:22
What about the anti Scottish behaviour by Blair saying first of all that Alex Salmond was "self indulgent," and then still not having ever lifted the phone to congratulate him. That would lead to international condemnation if it were any other country. Do you condone that? Or Maggie Broons giant sulk,where he refuses to speak to Alex Salmond? of course you won't you hypocrite.
ALBA GU BRATH.
71

yolanda,

25/01/2008 11:15:41
#80. Hi AJ. Good job they're not near MY till, eh! I'd cut their hands off - or set Patrick on them!
72

HEN BROON 5,

25/01/2008 11:18:12
72 AM2,Glasgow,UK 25/01/2008 10:17:40
#69 Wardog

"On the Tom Brown thread in Scotland on Sunday he reported that the SNP is concerned about these threads and has appealed to its members not to get involved in the abusive, prejudicial kind of online activism. Didn't you get the memo? ;-)"


More lies from Zebedees bagman, no such memo exists, it is purely a figment of your paranoid imagination. I bet your so proud of the mention Zebedee gave you on the radio clip I linked to, what a good little soldier you are.
73

HEN BROON 5,

25/01/2008 11:20:42
58 AJ Fife,25/01/2008 09:44:05



Tsk tsk, a wee bit harsh on turds methinks.
74

HA,

Beith 25/01/2008 11:25:38
The Big Question is How Did He Manage To Fool So Many People For So long?
75

HA,

Beith 25/01/2008 11:26:32
The Big Question is: How Did Gordon Brown Manage To Fool So Many People For So Long?
76

Thistledhu,

Fife 25/01/2008 11:28:24
id like to see a poll done in gordon browns constituency to see how he would fare. it would be very intresting, Like the idea Scotsman?
77

DAMcK,

Lanark 25/01/2008 11:29:46
Of course it can get worse! Much worse. Just wait till his proposed (and even more draconian than IR35 or S660) Family Business Tax (so called Income Shifting) hits the statues.

If you have a small family run business and don't know about this proposal ..... get your head out of the sand!

If this Income Shafting mess is implemented there will a huge backlash resulting in wholsale non-compliance by every small business in the country. Add that to the severely disgruntled public sector employees and general disquite over the borrowing noose that he has put around everyone's neck via Northern Rock.
78

AJ Fife,

25/01/2008 11:31:28
Yolanda#84,

Jist one of those intense disapproving looks you dish oot tae Patrick would be enough!:)

Hen Broon#86,

I've already been reprimanded by the official 'Jobbies aren't just for Christmas' pressure group!
79

Alfie Bett,

25/01/2008 11:32:45
Watched newsnight scotland last night Labours famous grouse George Foulkes was in his usual hilarious form, slavering on about the SNP and cybernats on the Herald's and Scotsman's comments boards and generally blaming all and sundry for labours woes except themselves of course, the further the interview went the more incoherent he became,even Gordon Brewer and Iain McWhirter were still chuckling about it in the follow up to Foulkes.
80

Karin M,

25/01/2008 11:35:06
72 AM2 When we have an unbiased press all day every day in an independent scotland then we will lay down our arms (mainly cos they are sore from all that typing all night every night if you beleive the baron) until then can i suggest that the our immortal bard has a prophecy for you.

O whither, O whither shall I turn!
All friendless, forsaken, forlorn!
For, in this world, Rest or Peace
I never more shall know!
81

Ananurhing,

25/01/2008 11:37:46
82# Hen Broon

Many thanks. I missed it last night.

All together now,
"OH IT'S OLD GEORGE ON HIS HOBBYHORSE AGAIN"

Replete in his finest ermine goonie.
Cybernats. People of the night. Ha ha, the imagery is so wonderfully desperate! Quite reassuring really.
82

DAMcK,

Lanark 25/01/2008 11:39:52
All we need is for Broon to be smeared from his cozy relationship with Gavyn Davies, the former chief economist of Goldman Sachs, who is a close friend of the Prime Minister and is married to Sue Nye, Mr Brown's "gatekeeper" at No 10. Goldman Sachs are the Northern Rock bond dealer/brokers. Broon buying futures in favours? Dodgy or what?
83

Alfie the OK,

The Banana Republic of Browntain... 25/01/2008 11:43:22
I really do hope it gets much worse for Gordon. The man is a complete dictator....

NO EU Referendum despite it being a manifesto commitment.

NO recognition of the need for an Englsh national Parliament despite the fact that 50 million people are democratically disenfranchised.

NO mandate whatsoever to govern the UK. Such was his obsession for the main job, he was prepared to engage in years of internecine warfare - no matter what the cost.

Brown is a madman. He is no democrat, he doesn't know the meaning of it. Let's hope the wheels really come off.
84

Thistledhu,

Fife 25/01/2008 11:45:18
#95 surely not Gordon brown hanging about with such flagrant capitilists, Labour tells the good people of fife gordon is one of them a good working class boy!!! or is he?
85

morris,

edinburgh 25/01/2008 11:53:07
Can it get any worse Gordon? Oh yes !

Wait till polling day !
We may see a crossword clue soon whch says Brown,a flushed toilet perhaps!
Answer:
A LOST DEPOSIT!
86

sceptic,

25/01/2008 12:05:56
#95
Gordon "bought" his unadvertised luxury Edinburgh apartment from, surprise, surprise, GOLDMAN SACHS
87

Faye,

25/01/2008 12:15:22
Oh here we go, poison pen Morris ~98. Armchair critic extraodinare.

Gordon Brown is being blamed for things that were not his fault.

Get the scene: In Downing St. dealing with world leaders and problems at hand, Gordon Brown is working hard.

At Revenue, IT bod downloads a couple of discs and tells admin boy to send to whoever. Dozy loses the discs. Media wolves blame Gordon. Hellooooooo!

Get real. Gordon Brown has more sense than the likes of the windbag Morris' of this world.





88

Thistledhu,

Fife 25/01/2008 12:20:01
#100 Faye he is in charge if he is not willing to accept criticism when things are going wrong he can hardley expect to receive plaudits (and votes) when things work out
89

ochone,

Sauchie, clack's 25/01/2008 12:22:44
AM2(70) Yet you shed you reticence over commenting on Alex Salmond and the Trump golf ccourse plans.

and the difference is?

Apart from one being a Nat and the other a unionist?

90

sheena,

at home 25/01/2008 12:25:57
Just to second Hen Broon's post at 85 - I have been an active SNP member for over 30 years and an irregular poster on this web site but have never, not even during the election campaign, had any communication from the party urging me to post, not to post nor what to post on any web site.

The Good Lord FFS just cannot get his head round the fact that there are people who will post comments hereon, WITHOUT HAVING TO BE PAID OR THREATENED - but rather because they actually believe in whatever they post.
91

drew 33,

duddingston 25/01/2008 12:26:02
99
"Faye" is sure that was just a coincidence just like Gavyn Davies being appointed to the BBC shortly after. Sadly for Brown he was again outwitted by Blair when Davies was ejected from the BBC's top job.
92

bully wee alba,

Edinburgh 25/01/2008 12:26:09
I have never intentionally stayed up all night on here to abuse the Labour Party in general or even Lord Balloon of Lugar Boswell Thistle in particular.

If indeed I ever did so, I did so in good faith and without realising that I had done so.

As soon as it was pointed out to me that I had done so, I immediately returned the cheque I had received from the SNP, which I had previously claimed was from a gents’ outfitters in Glasgow of which I am a customer.

Everyone who knows me will testify my impeccable integrity and honesty.

I should just be left to get on with my job, and not be the subject of speculation and harassment from the likes of Lord Zebedee, who is just out to make political capital from a minor oversight on my part.
93

wordsworth,

25/01/2008 12:32:57
Funny how you all give Gordon Brown a hard time,he is the best thing to happen to Scotland he spends most of his day working out how he can srew England.
94

JR Ewing,

Aberdeen 25/01/2008 12:37:57
If Gordon and Wendy were in possession of a modicum of leadership quality the very last people they would allow to defend their corner on national television are Foulkes and Baillie. It is perfectly clear that higher caliber NuLabour MSP's are keeping a low profile awaiting the time when these comedians eventually implode
95

Banana Heid,

Ayrshire 25/01/2008 12:42:11
I much prefer Deriding the Labour Party during the day as opposed to evening derisions. Usually during my lunch hour. Like now for example. Rubbish Labour!
96

FedUpTaxPayer,

Edinburgh 25/01/2008 12:55:05
With New Labour, I'm reminded of the story Emperor’s New Clothes. We were sold a vision of a new, fiscally responsible Labour, but I think the general public have now finally seen this is just not the case. It’s the same old Labour, overspending, squandering, wasteful and under delivering, together with a new contempt for the law, sleaze and arrogance by those at the top.

The sooner they are booted out of office the better for us all.
97

Karin M,

25/01/2008 13:10:59
100 faye. So its not his fault he is in charge of everything in the uK but its not his fault. Oh well thats allright then if the person who runs the country hasnt got a clue how to run it. Shall we all just say poor gordon it wisnae his fualt. Was it perhaps a bigger boy who did it and ran away then faye. The deal is he is the prime minister the buck stops with him. Thats why he gets the big fat paycheck and the big fat pension. Now faye dear run along and find something that you actually have a clue about. Can i suggest therapy for the delusional.
98

Mack1,

Carlisle 25/01/2008 13:23:31
Gordon Brown is a machine politician to his fingertips. Ignore all the claptrap about working in the national interest; what drives him and his cronies is the desire to retain power at any costs. Over the past 20 years they had succeeded in turning Scotland into a one-party state until the voters finally rumbled him.

It was said that the Labour Party couldn't run a whelk stall; nothing has changed except that for whelk stall substitute quangos - stuffed full of their equally incompetant followers and fellow travellers.

"We need to make a decision, Prime Minister." "Oh dear, let's appoint Lord Brownnose to undertake a review, that should defer matters for a couple of years."
99

Karin M,

25/01/2008 13:24:25
while im at at it george i have put down my plastering trowel just to come on here and tell you that it is not cybernats, snp dogs of war or even the military that starts wars. Wars always begin in truth, with the declaration bu a politician we are at war. Know any politicians that have talked of a war lately george?

"dogs of war" ring any bells.
100

Cauchy Riemann,

Wales 25/01/2008 13:24:54
#14 Faye wrote:
"It isn't Gordon Brown's fault the Americans have screwed up their economy. He is getting blamed for everything and anything."

I'm afraid Gordon is to blame in measure for the Rock. And he is wholly to blame for our poor economy.

1) Firstly you always get booms and crashes, they go in cycles. Several years ago it was predicted (nothing to do with the subprime US thing) that you would get a downturn in 2008 & depression in 2010. This downturn was coming to the UK regardless of the American subprime incident.

2) The Rock was built on flimsy foundations. It's business model was unstable, though it was geared for growth if everything was fine. If the Rock didn't have such an unstable model there wouldn't have been a run. A great deal of blame must be on the shoulders of the directors.

3) But where were the regulatory bodies in all this? Brown as chancellor swept away longstanding arrangements for dealing with financial turmoil and established a new "tri-partite" system, involving the Bank of England, the Financial Services Authority and the Treasury. This turned out to be dysfunctional & unfit for purpose.

Well that was Brown's fault. Here is a quote from Professor Willem Buiter, a former member of the Bank of England's Monetary Policy Committee: "Responsibility for this design flaw must be laid at the door of the man who created the arrangement - the former Chancellor and current Prime Minister, Gordon Brown."

4) Lastly our economy is in such bad shape, and is a very high debt based one which gives no leeway, but plenty of collapse scenarios (like the Rock). This is down to Brown.
101

Lock,

25/01/2008 13:35:32
My guess is that Blair knew all this was coming and got out at just the right moment. The question has to be how did Broon not see it coming?
102

wordsworth,

25/01/2008 13:52:25
Lock remember he only has one eye
103

morris,

edinburgh 25/01/2008 13:55:32
12 He refers to our pre decimalised currency which was before you were intergalactic.It serves no useful purpose but anyway:

We used this (Believe it or not but bear in mind our currency developed hundreds of years ago)

4 farthings = one penny = two halfpennies.

12 pennies = 1 shilling
twenty shillings = 1 pound sterling
10 bob was a slang for a 10 shilling note.
half crown was term used for 2 shillings and 6 pence coin!(Half of five shillings ie)

Our coins were farthing ,halfpenny,penny ,shilling,two shilling piece,half crown(2.5 shillings) and lastly 10 shilling note or half pound if you prefer or as it was commonly known 10 bob.Anything larger was pounds plus shillings plus pence .
The farthing was of such low value it disappeared as did the half penny eventually. The penny became the smallest unit in use and eventually we scrapped the entire nonsense and decimalised.
104

morris,

edinburgh 25/01/2008 14:00:47
Applogies to Karen and anyone who already detailed our currency .I saw it after I posted .

105

Richard Lionheart,

25/01/2008 14:02:04
Lord Foulkes is the founder member of the Anti Labourphobia movement and is demanding that new laws are introduced to eradicate Labour hate.

The punishment if found guilty will be in the form established across the world by all political dictatorships. This punishment is based on the well established principle “dead men can’t vote”

Then again maybe one could use the Alexander defence,
”I know that I broke the law, but I did it unintentionally, officer.”

Seems to work, 2 months on and Wendy House has still not be arrested.
106

morris,

edinburgh 25/01/2008 14:05:12
103

I also have held a membership since the sixties and have never been prompted to say or do anything,and where they get the idea that the SNP could afford to pay anybody to come on here is quite barking!
107

morris,

edinburgh 25/01/2008 14:09:01
106

He screws the United Kingdom actually, and as long as we contribute (to date 236 billion) oil revenues to Westmonster,then he screws his homeland far more than anybody else .
108

Karin M,

25/01/2008 14:17:09
118 My idea of unbiased press is not the scots independent. thats an snp supporting paper or didnt you know that. jeez.

My problem with the scottish press is that with the exception of the scots independent they are all biased against the snp. When some papers are supporting the unionist view and some are supporting the snp view then i will be happy. In fact i think what should happen is that an anonymous poll should be taken among the journalists about wich party they all support and this information should be printed somewhere on the second page under editorial comment every day then people are well aware of what they are getting. If they did that then i would be quite happy. However they wont because they are all biased and dont want people to know they are.

109

morris,

edinburgh 25/01/2008 14:29:23
123

Absolutely.I do not even want a pro independence press.I want an unbiased press which presents all sides of a given argument equally,and lets the public judge .Thats what a democracy should be about.The job of the press is to inform educate and report the news. That does not mean print Westminster PRESS RELEASES and suggest that they are factually correct,when
WE KNOW THEY ARE BULLSHIT !
The Scots independent is primarily an internal newspaper, published monthly as far as I am aware,and why it should be okay for Scotland to have a press which is biased toward the Union ,but wrong to have anything which seeks to redress the balance , is the most undemocratic thought imaginable.
You have nothing to explain Karin.

It is perfectly clear where you are coming from and why.Thats why they attack you!They know you are correct.What does that make them?
110

Arrow,

edinburgh 25/01/2008 14:30:25
i see that the re-shuffle has allowed Broon to bring some balls into the Cabinet.
111

Ike,

Glasgow 25/01/2008 14:34:36
Didn't GB destroy himself when he failed to side with Robin Cook and resign? This would have been Blair's political assassination... but Brown couldn't do it. Blair probably conned him with the US/UK relationship, the Labour mission, the future premiership, and the contest between Christianity and fundamental Islam. Bush, Blair and Brown are all self-righteous Holy Willies after all. Having done the cowardly deal, he lost all his self-respect and now just dithers, like MacBeth.
112

morris,

edinburgh 25/01/2008 15:08:30
126
The entire Labour Party showed themselves as spineless unprincipled self serving carreer politicians,with the exception of Robin Cook. He realised that Blair had manufactured, and stage managed ,a decepetion upon his own cabinet, the entire house, and the nation.
He did the honourable thing and resigned.The rest should be booted out !
It reminds me of a comment the late Oliver Brown once made." A chill ran along the back benches,looking for a spine to run up".
113

John M. Slusser II,

Nantwich 25/01/2008 15:19:20
What can one expect from ANY Labour party? Let history speak for itself...
114

Karin M,

25/01/2008 15:34:27
124 I thankyou for your comments morris however you and i know while an unbiased press is something we would like its not going to happen even after independence. So What i was attempting to explain was that i would be quite happy to accept as a compromise one part of the press supporting labour unionist types and one part supporting the snp maybe other papers in between the two. However you will note that unionists never compromise ever. That is why the papers are the way they are because theyre journos are unionists no compromise. see. You know the unionists just deny that the press are biased they dont even discuss it. The same happens with everything else where the unionists are concerned "deny deny deny"

take wendy yes i sent a thankyou letter but i deny breaking the law. it was unintentional. Not one of them has the guts to stand up and say you know what Mea culpa when they have done something wrong which you would have more respect for. Which i always do if i do something wrong i admit it. Unlinke the unionists like AM2 i mean have you ever heard him say you know what i think i was wrong about that. No never. Which must mean he thinks he is 100 percent right which is impossible. I bet he has never apologised in his life.
115

,

25/01/2008 16:06:32
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
116

Jimmy the Pie,

25/01/2008 16:32:22
After feeling guilt all day I've decided to change my ways. I am no longer a 'cybernat'. You showed me the error of my ways, Lord Foulkes, your Highness. From now on I will be supporting the 'Jackie Ballie for Leader' campaign. I promise to support Comrade Brown on everything he wishes. I am no longer anti-nuclear, anti-war, anti-capitalist, in fact I have abandoned all my principles. I now support England in any sporting event they are competing in. PFI is a great idea. The great gold sale was well timed and Comrade Brown was quite right in not holding an election back in October.
I'm so glad I'm now on the straight and narrow. ;-)
117

Ike,

Glasgow 25/01/2008 16:33:14
#127 Thanks for the comment.
It's dificult to see a way out for Brown. England seems to dislike him more every day with anti-Scottishness bubbling just beneath the surface. They appear to be squeezing him between his failure to deliver a referendum on Europe and his perceived pandering to us, his fellow Scots. The English perception is that he's giving the country away. How bad can it get? He may be disgraced and humiliated at the next election. Tories in England, SNP consolidation (with Tories) here. We're swinging to the right. But then again - if we all knew the future, we'd all be down the bookies !

118

Johnny D,

25/01/2008 16:33:58
Vote for Edinburgh to be on the world edition of Monopoly - http://www.monopolyworldvote.com/en_GB/world
119

westview,

roamin' in the gloamin'. 25/01/2008 16:46:15
We do not require more political committees or sleaze rules that are manipulated and broken by politicians who set them up as a weapon to use against rivals. Just remove the charitable status that political parties enjoy, ( why on earth are political parties considered charities any way?),then the inland revenue can tax them and insist that all the financial details of money transactions are subject to scrutiny and record. Just like you and me and any buisness . The tax folk caught All Capone so they can catch our crooks as well. Subject those who benifit from illeagal political transactions to extra income tax as well as confiscation of the cash.
120

Homo Sapiens,

25/01/2008 16:49:26
Hain should have resigned 2 months ago when his failure to declare and register the "donations" for his failed deputy leadership campaign came to light. Why was his position more tenable then that it was yesterday?

The same applies to Harriet Harman, whose failure to declare her donations triggered "donation-gate". For some reason the cabal of feminists has been able to silence the voices criticising this woman-solicitor, who has previously demonstrated her total regard to the the law by committing criminal contempt of the Court. Yet in spite of the pledge for running a different government, which will be cleaner than clean and whiter than white, Labour headed by Gordon is still a den of inequity, with liars and law breakers, in positions of power and authority. Flouting the election laws is a manifest demonstration of disregard to the principles of democracy... I am not even going to mention Bendy Wendy who together with her clown borther lost any respect, and any trust the voters might have had in them... this trust will never be restored!

Get the rascals out... NOW before they do more damage to this country, to its economy, and to democracy!
121

morris,

edinburgh 25/01/2008 16:52:53
129

What can I say? I agree at least 100%, might suffice?

Slainthe Mhath Karin.
122

Chris.J,

Edinburgh 25/01/2008 16:58:57
Well I for one am as proud of the "Dogs of War" tag as teenage ned with his first ASBO.

#118 AM2... aww come on, don't hold the Scots Independent against us. There's some fairly crap vacuous Labour Party publications floating about too! I know, I used to get them before I saw the light...

Foulkes little outbursts last night were pretty unpleasant, if not a little dangerous - why make the implication that there is something pernicious and underhand about being a SNP activist? These forums have plenty of lively robust debate from both sides. And there's a few bawbags from both sides too - but there's nothing to warrant his attitude.
123

morris,

edinburgh 25/01/2008 17:03:54
133

Indeed,
but there is a way out for Broon ! Unfortunately its the door of No 10 which he entered by,and that presumes that he gets that far.As I understand it his popularity in Cowdenbeath and KIrkcaldy has never been lower,and he is far from safe !
124

morris,

edinburgh 25/01/2008 17:11:05
136

Why was his position more tenable then that it was yesterday?

Apparently (according to the Herald) the investigation procedures which deal with any wrong doing regarding Nu Labours rules were never finalised,(I wonder why),so all investigations will proceed in the knowledge that they will return a verdict of innocent even when the party is clearly guilty. Thats basically what the Herald reported a few days ago.
Hain said he was resigning to clear his name ?What does that mean I ask?
It can only mean that there is a whitewash on order and its not maybe !

THEY ARE GOING TO WALK AWAY SCOT FREE and we are expected to accept this. The Labour faithful already have!
125

bully wee alba,

Edinburgh 25/01/2008 17:13:31
#118
Writes:-
“I haven’t accused Salmond of anything, and if it ever looked like it might result in a trial, I would say nothing at all”

You say it best when you say “nothing at all”.
126

An English Voice™,

25/01/2008 17:19:46
133. Hate to shatter your delusions there but English resentment of Brown has absolutely nothing, zip and zilch to do with anything Scottish. Believe it or not, you are not the centre of the universe.

Brown is lumbered with being from a party that has now been in power for ten years and few governments last that long (even the Tories needed Kinnock to throw it away in Sheffield in 1992 to win).

Also there is Iraq, which, and the nats seemed to have not noticed this, is deeply unpopular in England as well as Scotland.

Then there is the increase in anti-social behaviour and a seemingly loss of control of the young, due to the dominance of an ideology of political correctness which seems to protect criminals and their actions more than the victims.

Then there is the mass immigration, especially in the SE, which is swamping public services with little extra support from Westminster and, again due to Labour's PC-ness, is leading to long-held traditions, such as school nativities, being altered or dropped even though immigrant groups often say they don't actually mind them continuing!

But the biggest reason for the unpopularity of Brown, and this would be the winner in most polls on the matter, is the rampant taxation on anything and everything with little sign of any improvement in public services.
127

Burd Tina,

25/01/2008 17:27:16
#133
I'm not swinging in any direction, Ike; I'm dancing straight towards independence. If English voters swing away from Broon then Wendy and co. won't have him to (attempt to)sort out their messes. Thank goodness their idiocy has surfaced while they're out of office.
But how can the English possibly think Broon is pro-Scottish? It's beyond belief.

P.S. I've changed my nickname (from Albanna) because I think I pinched someone else's name by mistake. Sorry for any confusion.
128

Ike,

Glasgow 25/01/2008 17:35:09
#140
The role of the police is surely new and significant. I find two events fascinating. The killing by police of poor Mr de Menezes on the London tube and the police investigation into cash for peerages. Back in July when parliament was in the mood to investigate the Met police, the Met immediately arrested Labour funder Lord Levy, Tony's big-fish friend. Just before Tony left No 10, the Crown Prosecution service announced that no action would be taken against anyone in the Met. Thereafter it was announced that no action would be taken against Lord Levy. Quid pro quo. Was this an extremely hard-nosed contest between police and parliamentary power? Surely it was, as the police interviewed a sitting Prime Minister (TB) for the first time in history. Could Sir Ian Blair have told Tony Blair; "There'll be no action against my people, because you and your people got us into this terrorist mess in the first place." Ian Blair remains in office while the de Menezes family comfort themselves with the police's breach of Health and Safety regs.
129

ochone,

Sauchie, Clack's 25/01/2008 17:37:37
AM2 (118) your slipping i never used the word accused, but you have been joining in with comments regarding what was said by whom etc with regard to Salmond's 'chat,' with the committee yesterday and your comments did not come down on the side of the first minister.

BTW, I don't know if you have ever looked at a copy of the Scot's Independent but Ah hae ma doots, as it states quite clearly that it supports Scottish Independence and the SNP, although it is not owned by the SNP and despite everything there can be quite healthy 'debate', within it's pages and no I havn't always agreed with everything within it's pages.
130

An English Voice™,

25/01/2008 17:44:17
145. What is the circulation for the Scots Independent?

131

 Ayrshire Scot™,

25/01/2008 18:03:14
142. EV

why then to you keep making an issue of Gordon Brown being Scottish?

You even said yesterday that without a Scottish PM we woul dnot ahve invaded Iraq...
132

morris,

edinburgh 25/01/2008 18:03:34
142

"Believe it or not, you are not the centre of the universe."

WE know ,trust me,nor is the United Kingdom or Westminster, and thats why we are about to dump it at the ballot box.
133

morris,

edinburgh 25/01/2008 18:15:57
144
I share your concerns of course,but I think what the Herald is getting at is the new rules (which came into being under New Labour) should also have had a set of rules which govern procedures regarding any investigation,and these are still on the drawing board sufficiently, to almost guarantee that no successful guilty conclusion is possible,and even if it were,they would just invent/amend rules which prevent it, if they do not already exist, in effect, by simply not existing at all !

Its a bit like playing a football game,but far from moving the goal posts they never put them on the park to begin with ,the pretence being that they are still debating what size they should be.If the Herald are even close in this THIS IS NOT ONLY A WHITEWASH,its by design and the investigation itself is a window dressing sham !
134

WL,

livingston 25/01/2008 18:25:05
Why do politicians always call their mistakes only "innocent mistakes" ?
135

Gtj,

Dundee 25/01/2008 18:39:19
I could not give a flight hoot if the queen of Sheba was on these posts. What I want to know is - Is "Cybernat" a real word.

What's next - Cyberlab, Cybercom etc etc.
136

morris,

edinburgh 25/01/2008 18:55:27
152

And every single one of them is a bona fide elector ,as far as I am aware ,and has the same right to express an opinion as do you,so what exactly the point you are making here is ,I have no idea.
Wendy admitted her guilt and apologised on TV ,prior to claiming she would be cleared,she is responsible by law ,(Labours own law by the way) ,she did try to register it at a Glasgow business address,and she wrote a personal THANK YOU letter to the guy in Jersey which means she knew the Glasgow address was falsified!Thats not opinion. Thats logical guaranteed facts as mush as they can be ,and as reported in the television coverage!
PETER HAIN is involved in 16 separate payments which include a loan!How can he be unaware of a loan ?He also said he registered them too late. Yes after he realised he was exposed.Even Gordon Brown called him imcompetent. What bothers Foulkes is the decisions of "No wrong doing" are already perceived as impossible,and are not helped by people and press pointing out why! Whitewash is what nearly everybody expects,and the last person Labour should have put on TV is Foulkes!His credibility is at an all time low.

If Labour are genuinely "innocent", Foulkes has no reason to complain,plus he cannot possibly know this in certainity,as I have just explained,and would be well advised to stop making a complete hee haw of himself.
137

Queen D,

Glasgow 25/01/2008 18:59:06
I wonder what the dear Lord calls those cybersomethings on the BBC website about Hain.
I have to say their fairly getting stuck in to the Government of the UK.
Being nasty about Labour,tsk,tsk!
138

Caora Dubh,

Croit sheasgair 25/01/2008 19:03:17
This article epitomises the stinking disease that infects British journalism and the British political system. Journalists and politicians alike insist on personal attacks, instead of attacking a political party or relevant organisation. Was Gordon Brown directly responsible for the data loss? Was Gordon Brown directly responsible for Peter Hain's actions? In both cases it is likely that individuals broke standing rules, and it is NOT the PM's job to inspect mounds of minutiae to make sure that everyone including the office cleaning staff have obeyed all rules. Furthermore, I will always remember Paddy Ashdown saying something to the effect that he would always take his advice and change his mind and his policies if it was in the best interests of the country. I thought: "Hooray, hooray, at last a politician who will adapt their policies to changing circumstances". The moronic British press cannot understand how laudable it is to do a U-turn when required. Journalists would far rather see the UK run into the ground by an idiot of a politician too proud to change his/her mind, than have to praise a politician for being flexible. The word "humiliating" in this article demonstrates this clearly. I for one, intend to change my mind whenever it is logical to do so.
139

Chris.J,

Edinburgh 25/01/2008 19:31:41
#152 AM2.... Does it matter if contributors on this board are SNP activists - I still don't understand why this fact was the subject of a Foulkes outburst? Why is he so rattled? And you missed my point - that we get unpleasant comments from both sides on here - they're not unique to the Nats by any stretch of the imagination!! But nor am I pretending they don't happen.... its the Internet - people have been flaming since the web was invented - no reason for a "senior" politician to lose his rag on TV!
On the subject of Foulkes - and Jackie Baillie - is it not telling that in this time of turmoil, these two mediocre non-entities are being used so widely for press comment? There are far more capable people on the Labour Holyrood benches, who are remaining strangely silent - what's happening? Contenders waiting to know the position before they declare their hands? Others unwilling to give too much public support before the Electoral Commission makes a ruling? Interesting times.
140

Nikostratos,

25/01/2008 19:40:33
morris must of had a day off work and decided to spend it commenting his usual anti-democratic twaddle.

Please let us know when your having a day off next time and then i can give the Scotsman a miss till you clear off.

people need to know where these cybernats originate from and what there up to.... some are easily duped by skillful liars.

I myself was once the 'LORD MAYOR OF LONDON' and i am not ashamed of it no sir........

morris don't answer you will only give yourself a hernia.......

still here is something for you to read

http://politics.guardian.co.uk/scotland/story/0,,2247036,00.html
141

Chris.J,

Edinburgh 25/01/2008 19:42:41
#157 - Yup, its a statutory liability offence! Statutory Liability is a much loved device within the Labour Party - they just hate the idea of those annoying, upper class, intelligent, sensible, educated judges ruling on whether or not mens rea ("guilty mind") is present... And that's what makes Wendy's defence so ironic and laughable: She's pleading that there was no intent... which is legally irrelevant. Whether or not its in the public interest to prosecute is a different matter - and one for the PF.
142

OscarMacApfel,

Dumfries 25/01/2008 19:57:46
#161 Nikos, congratulations you managed an entire post without ejaculating the word 'drone'.

I'm proud of you feller, every day you're getting stronger.
143

 Ayrshire Scot™,

25/01/2008 20:16:08
164. Col B!

I read on one of AM2's les coherent missives that you attend SNP national council meetings? Is the fiend have you followed again?
144

FLUB,

a rocky outcrop in eastern central Scotland 25/01/2008 20:17:04
Time to go....

By the way, does anybody know why £500 is referred to as 'a monkey'?
145

OscarMacApfel,

Dumfries 25/01/2008 20:33:43
The idea of Baron George Foulkes von Cumnock touching anyones nerve has fair put me off my veggie Haggis.

Does the Punch nosed, demi-jakey not realise that he is regarded as a figure of fun on these boards? He is of no value other than that of ridicule.

You know I've held off actually joining the SNP, but listening to Baron George Foulkes von Cumnock's accusations of vituperative posting has fair prompted me to do so.
146

Nikostratos,

25/01/2008 20:35:58
#163

'Drone' Oooer phew........
147

HEN BROON 5,

25/01/2008 20:40:50
AM2, ZEBEDEES BAGMAN SAID: "Lord Foulkes is right to link these forums with SNP members and activists. Hen Broon 5 is an SNP canvasser. Morris knew the SNP leadership in the 1960s and knows Kenny MacAskill quite well. Richardinho is a member. Cataibh joined the SNP in 1954. Frank McBride was an SNP candidate in the 1980s in Stirling. Pehman has stood several times for election. Miss H and Col.Blimp attend SNP National Council meetings. Ronnie W has been elected on behalf of the SNP. And so on."

What is disturbing and dangerous is that you are keeping all these lists, presumably in the hope that one day you will be able to utilise them. You are without a doubt much much more paranoid and disturbed than any Cyber nat who comes on here to vent their feelings.
You were on here on Christmas day and Hogmanay at 01 something. You challenged nats to a fight in no mans land. What kind of deranged images are flitting across your brain. The utter hypocrisy of your self and that drunken loutish oaf Zebedee trying to smear posters on a public forum for doing what has been done for centuries to politicians is breathtaking. His loudmouthed behaviour in the chamber at Holyrood is beneath contempt. Political satire is a feature of life in this country. Have you never read Punch. Zebedee probably thinks it's a drink.
Get a life man.
148

morris,

edinburgh 25/01/2008 20:41:20
161

I wonder who these cyber-unionists are?Sound stupid? It should !
What is anti democratic about repeating what was said on the TV ?
What there up to? (I presume you mean what they are up to).
Thats easy.We comment as does everybody else ,usually in favour of our own objective,but I agree you could not accuse the Unionists of that!
They just open their mouths and see what comes out.
What you posted at 161 does not have any relevance to anything at all,never mind what we are debating!
If I wanted a political comment on anything about Scotland, I doubt that I would look in the Manchester Guardian ! Even you could probably equal their drivel.
I challenge you to contribute something even more idiotic ,than this irrelevant, whatever its supposed to be!It does not actually say anything intelligible!If it does, please point out where and why.
149

Conan the Librarian™,

25/01/2008 20:41:40
Evening shift signing on.
All.
Hiya George,nice to ken oor politicos listen to the many, many people who elect them.
Apart from Lords that is.We still don't elect Lords,do we George?
Lords are "special", eh George?
Especially Labour lords.
Do the words "sell" and "out" feature in your dreams...?
150

HEN BROON 5,

25/01/2008 20:43:44
165 Ayrshire Scot™,25/01/2008 20:16:08
164. Col B!

"I read on one of AM2's les coherent missives that you attend SNP national council meetings? Is the fiend have you followed again?"


Nothing would surprise me, the list keeper certainly has the mental capability.
151

OscarMacApfel,

Dumfries 25/01/2008 20:44:48
#169

Steady old feller, you'll drain yourself faster than Baron George Foulkes von Cumnock on the outside of a blending freeby.
152

HEN BROON 5,

25/01/2008 20:47:37
Found out where the old balloon hangs out ;o)


http://www.zebedeelist.co.uk/
153

OscarMacApfel,

Dumfries 25/01/2008 20:48:48
I want a "cybernat" t-shirt.

154

Conan the Librarian™,

25/01/2008 21:02:16
176
Remember the "believe my *rse" T-shirts?
There is a market...
155

 Ayrshire Scot™,

25/01/2008 21:03:13
176. I want an "I went drinking with Zebedee Foulkes and got arrested" T-shirt.

I like this "cyber-nat" phrase.
156

OscarMacApfel,

Dumfries 25/01/2008 21:07:23
St Andrews cross, white on blue with Foulkes detatched head in the centre yammering " Vituperative Cybernats" in a speech bubble.

It'll make a fortune. All proceeds to Oscar & Conan Inc.


Incidentally, since Brian Taylors blog isn't accepting anything at the moment, I have to say how hugely unimpressed I was to hear him swallow Jackie the Hutt's, "impermissable, not illegal" dictat, hook, line and sinker without even the slightest quiver of irony o yesterdays Rep Scotland.
157

Conan the Librarian™,

Cybernat, Cybernat Does whatever a Cybernat does. 25/01/2008 21:08:43
178
Evening Ayrshire.

So do I.
158

OscarMacApfel,

Dumfries 25/01/2008 21:09:42
Right you are young feller, you're in. Now all we need is a decent screen printer and some ethically sourced plain Tees.

Might I suggest Foulkes disembodied head on the maggot on a spring like body of the original Zebedee?
159

 Ayrshire Scot™,

25/01/2008 21:10:07
179. Now, I am getting confused by Labour new-speak. Is punching a policemant trying to help an old woman one has already assaulted in a state of heavy over-servedness 'impermissbale' or 'illegal'?
160

 Ayrshire Scot™,

25/01/2008 21:11:03
181. LOL. I think that should do it. Should he be grasping a whisky bottle in one hand and bopping a copper with the other?
161

ochone,

Sauchie, Clack's 25/01/2008 21:20:22
Am2, (153) thank you for making my day, nay my month, a disconnect, wow, Tommy Sheridan, George Galloway and Lord Foulkes are all legendary for their over use of the English language, but they couldn't have come up with that one between them.

English Voice, how the hell should I Am2, (153) thank you for making my day, nay my month, a disconnect, wow, Tommy Sheridan, George Galloway and Lord Foulkes are all legendary for their over use of the English language, but they couldn't have come up with that one between them.

English Voice, how the hell should I know its circulation? By the way you've still to say which party it is you support; it's unlike you to be reticent.

I have this feeling that when you do get over your innate shyness and say, that it will be something along the lines of, I don't actually support any one party.
162

ochone,

Sauchie, Clack's 25/01/2008 21:29:26
I see there is a little debate going on about the bias or otherwise of the Scottish media.

Now we on either side of the great divide could go on about this for ever, so instead why don't we read some words froma man who should no something about the subject. Will my unionist playmates please not be put off by the name of the site, he is only writing on it and if as you claim there is no medai bias then there is no harm in you reading what must be his unbiased views

http://www.scottishindependence.com/politicsandpress.htm
163

Conan the Librarian™,

25/01/2008 21:34:33
We are the cybernats - my friends
And we'll keep on fighting - till the end -
We are the cybernats -
We are the cybernats
No time for losers
'Cause we are the cybernats - of the world -
164

ochone,

Sauchie, Clack's 25/01/2008 21:36:28
Re the what design to put on a tee shirt of Lord George, I suggest just his head with the (admittedly rather long) slogan, trust me I know what I'm talking about, I told everybody to trust Vladamear Rommanoff.

I wont even claim the copyright
165

ochone,

Sauchie, Clack's 25/01/2008 21:42:17
Re Lord Foulkes do you think has always used that bool in the mooth accent that makes the queen sound like a peasant or did he just pick it up second hand at the House of Lords?

As for the article that started all of this off,remember it? (g'on you can if you think hard enough), I think Gordy's troubles are just beginning and that Tony B is sitting back somewhere killing himself laughing, Mrs B certainly will.
166

Conan the Librarian™,

One of the Original Cyber-Nats. 25/01/2008 21:46:48
187
To the Heart(s) of the matter.
167

Karin M,

25/01/2008 22:01:38
i have a suggestion for the t shirt.

This is wendy alexanders T shirt

I didnt steal it intentionally.
168

An Beal Bacht,

25/01/2008 22:03:41
190 - Good One.
169

Karin M,

25/01/2008 22:04:55
or how about peter hain spent all the money on my t shirt.
170

ochone,

Sauchie, Clack's 25/01/2008 22:06:30
Karin M, now I know we havn't been formally introduced, i was waiting on conan to do the honours, but anyway, I think that's not a bad suggestion.


Where have all the unionists gone? it's really not our fault if they havn't got the stamina to keep up.

If we don't hear from one soon Ayrshires likely to start whistling again
171

Karin M,

25/01/2008 22:08:18
hello ochone. wasnt dixie was it.
172

Karin M,

25/01/2008 22:09:16
had to laught at Am2 apologising. I knew he was going to do that. Its so easy to push his buttons.
173

Karin M,

25/01/2008 22:09:54
he falls for it every single time.
174

Karin M,

25/01/2008 22:12:20
well i take it you lot have buggered off for a unionist hunt i may join you whereever you are. Unleash the dogs....................of war.
175

ochone,

Sauchie,Clack's 25/01/2008 22:13:29
Karin M, no it was 'the great John McClean's comeing home to the Clyde,' i joined in the second verse, conan was very kindly sharing his favourite recipes with us at the time.

We were bored, but you would never have guessed.

that's the trouble with these unionists there's never one around when you want one!
176

ochone,

Sauchie, clack's 25/01/2008 22:14:46
Think I'll pop back later as well
177

morris,

edinburgh 25/01/2008 22:23:13
185

That is truly remarkable reading! Thank You for that.Murray Ritchie certainly does not mince his words.Its just a pity a few of his colleagues could not display a backbone and put their true feelings on paper,and sod the editorial line.

I ask only that honesty prevail. It appears that we have to achieve independence before we can have a balanced press.We should remember this post independence.The press are accountable same as everybody else is. I doubt that many of the papers will still be in business by then anyway.They would appear to prefer unemployment to honesty.Their choice.
178

Karin M,

25/01/2008 22:31:52
201 I know i read it. and while it may be totally wrong of me not to answer for which i unreserveredly apologise cos obviously i am in the wrong. to tell you the truth i cant be ersed.
179

BK,

Cyberspace 25/01/2008 22:32:59
I'm sorry Mr. Brown that I forgot to declare £1 million for income tax purposes. However it was purely an accident, and as you seemed willing to accept this excuse from Mr. Hain, you must surely accept it from me."
180

morris,

edinburgh 25/01/2008 22:33:21
179

The best part is that using an expression like "impermissable, not illegal" is basically saying that we consider our supporters to be so stupid that they will not realise that this is total nonsense,and the best part is,they are correct,and they apparently are that stupid!It probably is beyond the average labour numpty to comprehend that they are being ridiculed here.
181

Karin M,

25/01/2008 22:41:06
anyway am2 dont you have a sex life to be getting it on with.
182

Karin M,

25/01/2008 22:41:49
207 nah im bored finished the plastering most of it is in my hair very annoying.
183

 Ayrshire Scot™,

25/01/2008 22:43:30
206. Are you compiling lists on us all, AM2? When the unionist revolution comes (weather and polcie enquiries permitting) will we be sent for re-education?
184

Karin M,

25/01/2008 22:45:08
ayrshire eventually got your email from abut 15 january about where was i.
185

 Ayrshire Scot™,

25/01/2008 22:45:39
209. I was plastering last night. Still a tad delicate.
186

Karin M,

25/01/2008 22:46:30
he pure totally did lose his rag he gets over excited every time hes on the telly. Ithink its the alcohol that does it.
187

 Ayrshire Scot™,

25/01/2008 22:46:50
211. All things relative AM2. He didn't punch anyone while in a drunken rage, granted (this time), but he is not a representation of intellectual unionist debate.
188

Karin M,

25/01/2008 22:47:30
213 im not sure if your plastering and my plastering is the same type of plstering..................mines involves white stuff you mix with water.
189

Karin M,

25/01/2008 22:48:38
and no its not the white spirit foulksy enjoys.
190

morris,

edinburgh 25/01/2008 22:48:53
If anyone is interested I knew the late Hamish Henderson,(but not very well),who I belive was the composer,and he (HH)was most upset when I doubted his committment to an independent Scotland.He certainly corrected me on that one!
The words are:

John McLean's March

Hey Mac, did you see him as he cam' doon by Gorgie
Awa' o'er the Lammerlaw and north o' the Tay
Yon man is comin' and the hale toon is turnin' oot
We're a' sure he'll win back tae Glesga the day
The jiners and hauders-on are marchin' frae Clydebank
Come on noo and hear him he'll be ower thrang tae bide
Turn oot Jock and Jimmy leave the crane and the muckle gantry
Great John MacLean has come hame tae the Clyde

Argyle Street and London Road's the route that we're marchin'
The lads frae the Broomielaw are here tae a man
Hey Neil whaur's your hauderums, ye big Hielan' teuchter
Get your pipes mate an' march at the heid o' the clan
Hello Pat Malone, I knew you'd be here, son
The red and the green, lad, will march side by side
The Gorbals is his the day and Glesga belangs tae him
Great John MacLean has come hame tae the Clyde

Ah weel when it's ower I'll awa' back tae Springburn
Come hame for your tea, John, we'll soon hae ye fed
It's hard work the speakin' and I'm sure you'll be tired the nicht
I'll sleep on the flair Mac an' gie John the bed
The hale city's quiet noo, it kens that he's restin'
At hame wi' his Glesga freends, their fame an' their pride
The red will be worn, my lads, and Scotland will march again
Great John MacLean has come hame tae the Clyde


John McLean said himself that he would never favour any organisation which sought to control Scotland from outwith Scotland apparently.
I doubt the Unionists would like that made common knowledge.
191

Karin M,

25/01/2008 22:49:17
I resent foulksy calling me a dog. biatch maybe. dog no.
192

 Ayrshire Scot™,

25/01/2008 22:51:27
219.ooooh, I am on your lists? If so which ones?
193

 Ayrshire Scot™,

25/01/2008 22:53:03
218. I had that on record once, lost it
194

Karin M,

25/01/2008 22:59:11
222 AM2 lists ticking boxes. maybe george should have given you a personal mention.
195

Karin M,

25/01/2008 23:00:45
ooh ayrshire hes been in your bin again. AM2 i sincerely hope i am not on one of your creepy lists because it will proably be wrong. I bet you have a filing cabinet with details and cross references.
196

Karin M,

25/01/2008 23:02:47
222 im thinking of spirit in the sky now,.
197

HEN BROON 5,

25/01/2008 23:03:00
225 Karin M,25/01/2008 22:59:11
"222 AM2 lists ticking boxes. maybe george should have given you a personal mention. "


He did Karin I will find the clip for you. Have you noticed how rabid The List Keeper becomes when there is bad Unionist press around, he will be here all night and tomorrow.
198

 Ayrshire Scot™,

25/01/2008 23:03:19
224. oooh, well what is the title of yoru lists that I appear on ?
199

HEN BROON 5,

25/01/2008 23:06:14
218 morris,edinburgh 25/01/2008 22:48:53


Thanks ballach we need more men like you ;o)
200

Karin M,

25/01/2008 23:06:51
im beginnning to think am2 is foulksy. seriously how else would he know some people are up all night hes the only one who is actually on here all the time to know anyone would be up all night.
201

Karin M,

25/01/2008 23:08:08
ayrshire perhaps it goes something like this.

box 1. nationalist tick
box 2. enemy of am2 tick
box 3. always gets the better of me double tick.
202

Karin M,

25/01/2008 23:09:30
or perhaps its more

bin checked tick
suspect cyber nat left at 9 pm tick.

Am2 are you the crocodile from peter pan
203

 Ayrshire Scot™,

25/01/2008 23:09:51
231 what did Foulksey say? where is it reported?
204

Karin M,

25/01/2008 23:10:06
anyone ever tiled anything i have to tile my bathroom and never done it before.
205

Conan the Librarian™,

CyberNat, CyberNat, does whatever a CyberNat does. 25/01/2008 23:10:30
223
Perfectly measured?
Quarter gill perhaps?
206

HEN BROON 5,

25/01/2008 23:12:02
karin,
listen to this and see if you can spot the AM2 reference ;o) It's there..

http://news.bbc.co.uk/media/avdb/news/scotland/audio/118000/bb/118054_au_bb.ram
207

Karin M,

25/01/2008 23:12:03
235 he was on politics now last night and was going on about cyber nats and asked rosanna cunnigham to reign in her "dogs of war". then he wittered on about some journalist he didnae like.
208

 Ayrshire Scot™,

25/01/2008 23:12:52
I just watched FMQs. Another dismal performance from Wendy (blaming the SNP for Labour's prison failures over the past eight years? whit?) and Nicol Stephen is just embarrassing.
209

Karin M,

25/01/2008 23:12:57
back in amo off to check it oot cheers hen.
210

HEN BROON 5,

25/01/2008 23:13:27
236 Karin M,25/01/2008 23:10:06

Do you want me to pop round and show you, I'm a great tiler, spent a few nights on them.
211

 Ayrshire Scot™,

25/01/2008 23:14:20
239? why, because we don't think Foulkes assaulting old ladies and the police in a drink fuelled binge of violent disorder is a good thing?
212

Conan the Librarian™,

25/01/2008 23:14:24
Do you think George comments...?

KIMBA!!!
213

Tobytoo,

Southington 25/01/2008 23:17:40
#40 What was so wrong with #12 G.C. Question
He said that he did not think that Scotland dealt with Euros. Was your sarcastic answer only because he is a Yank. I don't always agree with some of his rants but fair is fair and I see nothing wrong with his question
and he did get some good (and interesting) answers that I myself was interested in the old money.
214

 Ayrshire Scot™,

25/01/2008 23:18:40
245 I have no idea AM2, not myself being a compulsive list keeper of the idiosyncrasies of avatar's of people I have not met on web sites, and having no special insight into the workings of the minds of such list keepers.... do tell
215

jamie fleeman,

Aberdeenshire 25/01/2008 23:21:08
"The higher the monkey climbs the more he reveals".

We now see Brown exposed as what he is.

Brown is a "back of house" person and not a "people person", might even frighten the horses with his scowling and mortician demeanour.Too scary for a "Hammer Movie" even in black and white.

He had a lucky run as Chancellor but without Blair he is lost, just like any other comedy duo.

Public perception is what matters and he has an aura of doom about him.

Things will only get worse.

Doomed Doomed they are all Doomed.

Doomed with the twin Albatrosses of Iraq and SLEAZE hanging round his neck wherever he shuffles in his almost but not quite life.

Sad thing failure.
216

Karin M,

25/01/2008 23:30:37
hen i cannay get that stupid bbc thing tae work. had to reload real player as well and the damable thing still widnae work.
217

Karin M,

25/01/2008 23:31:24
does anyone think that picture is really of gordon brown or is it his double that agency hired.
218

Karin M,

25/01/2008 23:32:13
ayrshire i would be pure scared if i wus you god knows what that nutter is writing down abuot you. i dread to think.
219

HEN BROON 5,

25/01/2008 23:32:31
232 AM2,Glasgow,UK 25/01/2008 23:07:05

I've seen it. Foulkes was very careful not to use the sleaze word as he knows fine that his party are up to there arm pits in it.

He is a buffoon of the highest order. Did you not see McWhirter and Brewer wetting themselves as he was faded out on Newsnight last night, you could see him mouthing of in the background even though he was not on air. He is a figure of fun and the only one along with Jackie the Hut who is daft enough to try and justify Liebours sleaze and corruption. I have to say it makes great television.

His ignorant buffoonery in the Holyrood chamber is disgusting as he talks away in a loud voice when any SNP member is speaking. He degrades the office of MSP and should be banished from the place.

Better that he sits with all the other boring old farts in the Lords. Kinnock and he are like book ends, windbags who spent there political lives denouncing the Lords, and then lunged through the door like Ali Baba to get there snouts in the trough as soon as they were able to, windbags and hypocrites.

The Liebour parties arrogant denial and inability to accept opposition reminds me of Chauchesku in Romania, when he was put against the wall with his evil wife and shot whilst still ranting and raving.
220

Karin M,

25/01/2008 23:33:04
i was at the dentist yesterday my face still hurst why are dentists so viscous.
221

HEN BROON 5,

25/01/2008 23:34:10
251 Karin M,25/01/2008 23:30:37 ok will fix it when I show you how to plaster. maybe the link is dodgy you could go to BBC Scotland web site and try and find it.
222

Karin M,

25/01/2008 23:34:50
the mans a totty i agree hen. do you think we could send him a bottle of vodka and shut him up for a while.
223

Karin M,

25/01/2008 23:35:31
256 i did never had nae luck.
224

Karin M,

25/01/2008 23:36:43
i love watching plasters im not a plasterer so it has none of the grace and skill. i love the way they look as if they are spreading butter.
225

Karin M,

25/01/2008 23:41:52
i have the t shirt slogan

cyber nat dogs
unleashed
offline
its time.
226

Karin M,

25/01/2008 23:44:24
i have t shirt printing paper.
227

Karin M,

25/01/2008 23:46:38
ooh hello fakey just noticed you there. your gonni hiv to work on the parliamo mate.
228

Karin M,

25/01/2008 23:48:19
fakey how about the gaelic feasgar math.
229

Karin M,

25/01/2008 23:54:52
wheres everyone goine.
230

Karin M,

25/01/2008 23:55:59
259 i could do that geeza job.
231

The Strategist,

25/01/2008 23:56:52
It seems obvious to me that what really concerns Foulkes is that not many Labour supporters seem to know how to run computers and access the internet and this may reflect badly on their education policies.
232

Roberta Burns,

26/01/2008 00:01:33
Lord Foulkes of Cumnock? Have you been to Cumnock? It's a dead place since the pits were forced to shut. I'll bet that was the last time the good lord was there.
233

OscarMacApfel,

Dumfries 26/01/2008 00:07:17
Just wasted two hours of my life watching 300 on DVD. Lawyer from Paisley with digitised six pack takes on Orcs. Meh.


Here's a thought more pertaining to the actual headline. Could Jilted John, aka John Shuttleworth be persuaded to re-release that seventies classic "Gordon, Is a Moron"?

I've been going out with a girl
Her name is Julie
But last night she said to me
when we were watching telly
(this is what she said)
She said listen John I love you
But there's this bloke I fancy
I don't want to two time you
So its the end for you and me
Who's this bloke I asked her
Goooooordon she replied
Not THAT poof I said in dismay
yes but he's no poof she cried - he's more a man than you'll ever be

Here we go, two three four

I was so upset that I cried all the way to the chip shop
When I came out there was Gordon standing at the bus stop
And guess who was with him
Yeah Julie- and they were both laughing at me
oh, she is cruel and heartless
to pack me for Gordon
Just cos he's better looking than me
just cos he's cool and trendy

but I know hes a moron, Gordon is a moron
Gordon is a moron, gordon is a moron


234

Karin M,

26/01/2008 00:08:14
268 col i think you may be on Am2s "tick list". i beleive he has a filing cabinet with personality profiles of all "CYBERNATS"
235

OscarMacApfel,

Dumfries 26/01/2008 00:25:40
#272 you might be onto something Col, Mahmoud Ahmadinejad looks a bit like Xerxes, well minus the visible piercings...

Ephialtes, bares more than a passing resemblence to a street carousing Baron George Foulkes von Cumnock.
236

ochone,

Sauchie, Clack's 26/01/2008 00:28:14
I'm upset now, why am i not on anybodys list, I'm can
be as horrible as anybody else and I wrote a whole serial about AM2 and his family, it's no fare ah tell ye.

Or could they be keepin'me for somthing special?
237

ochone,

Sauchie, Clack's 26/01/2008 00:29:45
I deman to be on Am2's list.

or a'll greet
238

subrosa,

26/01/2008 00:31:36
I'm nervous to post now that AM2 may mention I'm a member of the Tory party or is it the Labour party? Maybe it's the LibDems. Auch I get scunnered with these senior moments.
239

Karin M,

26/01/2008 00:32:13
273 col i agree i bet his bedroom is like soemthing out of csi. the serial killers wall covered in pictrures of the victims.

275 are you nat 1 or nat 2 im still trying to figure out who they were.
240

Karin M,

26/01/2008 00:33:07
im a member of the ann summers party...........he he he.
241

subrosa,

26/01/2008 00:33:23
Yer serial was braw ochone. Eh've gied it tae a doctor o' literature at Dundee uni :) Jist fur private readin' mind.
242

Karin M,

26/01/2008 00:34:17
276 oooh no i dont want his ticks anywhere near me. He can keep them. He probably got them from the sheep.
243

Karin M,

26/01/2008 00:35:02
280 it was i laughed so much i cried. ochone do antoher one.
244

Karin M,

26/01/2008 00:35:35
do you think this counts as up all night.

im totally making that t shirt.
245

ochone,

Sauchie, 26/01/2008 00:35:41
Karen hen you've lost me Nat 1?, Nat 2? so long as I am on a list, hopefully special branch's then I'm no really bothered
246

OscarMacApfel,

Dumfries 26/01/2008 00:48:41
I hope Baron George Foulkes von Cumnock or one of his unionist toadies has a chance to read tonights thread.

He's an odd cove pretending like most politicians to care about the electorate, whilst all the time filling his boots and snuffling at the trough.

I know for a fact that last October, the blessed Baron was sent a letter detailing chaos at a council ran depot in his former constituency. Said chaos involves drug dealing and indulgence by council employees, corruption and bigotry.

Here's a section of my copy of the letter.
=======================================
There are workers employed by the council who are active members of the UVF. They have been recruited from members of the Loyalist D*****n Young Conquerers Flute Band. (See youtube for video evidence)

One of their members, D**** C****, is a drug dealer. Evidence of his wealth exceeding his salary is shown in his recent building of a detached villa in D*****n and his mode of transport a new BMW 4x4 complete with private registration. He owns properties in Spain and throughout Ayrshire. He uses his route as a binman to deliver and pick up packages of drugs, illegal tobacco and cash.
========================================

It's a damn shame that a politician who owes his entire career to one of the poorest constituencies in the country has done nothing to investigate the allegations...
247

ochone,

Sauchie, Clack's 26/01/2008 00:49:40
Dear Lord George.

I am afraid that I missed you on the television last night as i was doing something else at the time, namely sitting up in bed mending my bike.

I am awfully sorry that i and other Nat's, sorry cyber nat's, (do you know a fella by the name of AM2 by the way), have hurt your feelings, as I am sure that they like me, would not have had that happen for worlds.

As for the lies, well we do get a bit carried away from time to time it's true, but of course your right, to act the way that we do just becausea Wendy has admitted that those donation wern't quite right, isn't really on I suppose but look at it this way, yon time you got in bother with the police at Westminster, when you were a bit tired and emotional, so to speak, i'll bet that even a bright spark like your self never thought of saying to the police, but i didnae intend tae dae it, and why not? because you thought to your self, I may be drunk, sorry, tired and emotional, but even in this state I widnae come up wae a dumb excuse like that!

The thing is, Wendy wisnae even drunk, sorry tired and emotional when she used that excuse.

Aye Lord Geordy how things have changed since your day.

248

ochone,

Sauchie, Clack's 26/01/2008 00:55:14
That picture o Gordon, i don't suppose he was performing some secret ritual or hand shake at the time, bit like the masons maybe.
249

Brit-Utopia,

AM2's MUM 26/01/2008 00:55:33
I'm really sorry that my wee boy has been pestering all you Cybernats.

I should never have bought him that "Guess Who" game for his birthday last year.

Please don't tell the police, he didn't mean any harm.

I'll make sure that he doesn't do it again, he just doesn't have any real friends apart from his spiders and he eat the last one a few weeks ago.
250

OscarMacApfel,

Dumfries 26/01/2008 01:02:40
New Labour Scandals
Police quiz Labour MP over 'bribe' - 19/05/97
Labour denies sleaze charge - 25/08/97
Blair Lies to the House of Commons - 19/11/97 Hansard
Labour MP in court on votes charge - 17/12/97
MP denies poll fraud charge - 18/12/97
Row over Blair's 'Murdoch intervention' - 27/03/98 Rupert Murdoch said he had asked Mr Blair to contact Italian PM Romani Prodi over a deal he was planning
No let-up in 'contacts' row - 08/07/98
Hague hammers Blair over sleaze - 08/07/98 for encouraging a "culture of cronyism."
Fresh questions in lobbyist row - 11/07/98 the connections of Roger Liddle, the Downing Street policy adviser at the heart of the cash-for-access affair, with Prima Europe
Tories step up cash-for-access row - 13/07/98 Mr Draper admitted being "boastful" about his contacts with the government, but rejected suggestions of improper behaviour... Fresh allegations led to more denials from Minister Without Portfolio Peter Mandelson, who used to employ Mr Draper
Robinson escapes with rap on knuckles - 16/07/98
Labour's top donors pick up key posts - 31/08/98
The Mandelson File - 23/12/98
Tories call for 'Champagne Jack' inquiry - 18/01/99 Has Jack Cunningham been indulging in high-living at the tax-payers' expense?
Blair escapes call to appear before 'cronyism' panel - 23/02/99 Mr Hart, 57, is the godfather of Mr Blair's daughter. He was appointed to the £73,000-a-year post, which was not advertised, in March 1998
Labour Scandal - Jaguar - 23/05/99
£11m spent on foreign trips - 19/06/99 The most expensive trip by a minister was made by Foreign Secretary Robin Cook, who travelled with 14 officials to the Far East in 1997 at a cost of £169,186
Hague attacks 'Labour hypocrites' - 07/10/99 accusing the prime minister of lying and breaking his promises
Brown accused of cronyism - 22/10/99
Robinson 'has scandal photos' - 23/10/99
Robinson 'gave to second blind trust' - 23/10/99
Minister denies destruction of evidence - 24/10/99
Inquiry into Do
251

OscarMacApfel,

Dumfries 26/01/2008 01:03:14
PM's wife pays penalty fare - 10/01/00
No ticket, so Cherie falls foul of the law - 11/01/00
Robinson accused of DTI fraud - 23/01/00
Downing Street accused of forcing mandarin to quit - 23/01/00
Robinson faces fraud inquiry - 23/01/00
Transtec inquiry examines grants - 25/01/00
Robinson: I'm blameless - 26/01/00
Labour millionaire faces police inquiry - 30/01/00
Police investigate TransTec - 07/02/00
Online and on message (Blair spins on the web - using public money) - 11/02/00
Lords under anti-sleaze microscope - 13/03/00
Filkin [Parliamentary Commissioner for Standards] widens investigation into minister's 'payments' [Keith Vaz] - 19/03/00
Blair misled House on NHS - 26/03/00
Blair is attacked over 'cash for coronets' - 01/04/00
Byers accused of doctoring records on crisis at Rover - 06/04/00
Vaz 'promised solicitor a place on honours list' - 09/04/00
MPs delay report on Prescott flat - 19/04/00 The Labour-dominated Standards and Privileges Committee, which adjudicates on breaches of Commons rules, had been expected to approve publication today. A meeting yesterday broke up without reaching a conclusion and the committee will not meet again until May 9, the week after the elections.
Dewar denies jumping NHS waiting list - 01/05/00
NHS advert 'misled on nurse pay levels' - 03/05/00 Government advert said average nurses earned more than £20,000
Commons misled over GM bungle - 21/05/00 Ministers kept the accidental planting of GM crops across Britain secret even from their own advisers
Alli [Labour peer] broke Lords convention - 01/06/00
Blair tycoon paid just £5,000 tax - 25/06/00
Row over peer's tax bill - 25/06/00
Blair stands by millionaire with £5,000 tax bill - 26/06/00
The reason why Tony's cronies make us angry - 26/06/00 Under the heading of "sleaze", this Government is no better than its predecessors
Tories revive questions on Lord Levy's diplomatic role - 27/06/00 Further queries raised about role played by multimillionaire Labour
252

OscarMacApfel,

Dumfries 26/01/2008 01:04:45
Gadzooks, there's tooooo much to c'n'p!


http://www.labour-watch.com/sleaze.htm
253

ochone,

Sauchie, Clack's 26/01/2008 01:07:32
Oscar, steady noo, or we'll hiv your mammy oan next.

Well that does it, i have given Lord George plenty of time to reply, my concience is clear.

Just shear bad manners on his part.

Night, night my fellow rebels
254

subrosa,

26/01/2008 17:23:49
Daniel, we owed the Americans nothing. We just finished paying them back financially last year plus massive interest and they joined WW2 completely to do with their own interests and nothing to do with ours.

Tony Blair's joining forces with the Americans about Iraq etc was selfish in the extreme. He was looking after his own future and only his own. Gordon Brown, who once upon a time I thought was a man of principle and good moral judgement, disappeared into the background at this time.

Since then he's not proven himself to be of leadership quality and my opinion of him has reduced greatly. He encourages this 'ship of sleaze' that glides across his party by not sacking the guilty immediately. He vanishes when he should be standing in front of cameras speaking to the people of the UK. He surrounds himself with people who are only interested in themselves (ie Blair type characters) and he's now tarred with the same brush.

Sadly it's time for him to go but there's not much to choose from - it's David Cameron or David Cameron.
255

weh,

26/01/2008 20:27:30
JR Ewing wrote
t is perfectly clear that higher caliber NuLabour MSP's are keeping a low profile"

Higher calibre nulab mp's????

What drugs are you on, JR?? Don't you know that the mooth of the sooth represents numptyland's brightest and finest??

Go back to bed!!


 

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