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Brown’s £150 rebate on energy bills for families ‘doesn’t go far enough’

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Published Date: 11 August 2008
PLANS to give millions of families a £150 rebate on their energy bills would do little to counter massive price rises experienced since the start of the year, campaigners warned yesterday.
Gordon Brown, the Prime Minister, is understood to be considering emergency help for the 7.5 million families who receive child benefit as part of an attempt to regain the political agenda this autumn.

Details of the secret £1 billion proposal emerged yesterday after a top civil servant was overheard on a train discussing them with a colleague.

But the one-off payment, which ties in with the Prime Minister’s motivation to target help at children, would fail to go even halfway to wiping out the price hikes imposed by the “big six” energy firms.

According to price comparison website moneysupermarket.com, average domestic gas bills from British Gas have soared 56 per cent since January, from £568 to £885. The total paid by customers the firm also supplies with electricity are £1,328 – more than £400 extra.

Similar charges are also experienced by EdF customers, which last month increased its gas bills by 22 per cent and electricity by 17 per cent. Its combined bills are around £200 higher than at the start of the year.

Ann Robinson, director of consumer policy at price comparison website uSwitch.com, said a payment of £150 would be little more than a “sticking plaster”.

She told The Scotsman: “Obviously for those families who would benefit, it’s very welcome news, but it doesn’t go far enough. We are looking at energy bills on average going up £400 since the beginning of the year.

“I think the government has this idea it will do a bit here and a bit there without really addressing the problem. What they really need to do is think quite fundamentally about some of these issues and how best to make sure people can afford the energy they need.

“Energy, like food and shelter, is a basic necessity. As a civilised society we must make sure that everybody can afford the basic necessities.”

Government officials yesterday stressed that the one-off payment had not been given final approval, but said that extra help with fuel bills was being considered. The government is already committed to increasing the winter fuel allowance for pensioners over 60 by £50, taking them to £250, and by £100 for those over 80, giving them £400. This move, announced in the March Budget, will benefit nine million households.

The plan to offer help to families receiving child benefit emerged after Sir Brian Bender, the most senior official at the Department for Business, Enterprise and Regulatory Reform (Berr), said ministers were keen to give cash to “ordinary people”.

When he was asked by a fellow first-class passenger on a train journey from Leeds to London last month whether the money would be targeted at disadvantaged groups, Sir Brian reportedly replied: “No, a fuel rebate for everybody on child benefit.”

This was interpreted as a sign that Mr Brown was keen to win favour with “Middle England” families, in whose hands his success at the next General Election will be mainly dependent.

Child benefit is a universal benefit paid regardless of parental income and works out at £16.50 a week for the eldest child and £11.05 for subsequent children. It is currently paid for about 13 million children aged up to 16, or 19 if they are in full-time education.

Michael Fallon, Conservative chairman of the Commons Treasury scrutiny committee, said: “This is blatant indiscriminate electioneering in one of the final winters before the General Election.”

Mr Brown has come under sustained pressure to act to curtail energy and fuel prices, but his efforts to date have been limited to begging major oil producing nations to increase oil production in an effort to prompt a fall in forecourt petrol prices.

A Berr spokesman said: “The protection of those least able to heat their homes is a priority for the government. We will continue to work with energy companies, amongst others, on measures to help the most vulnerable to reduce the amount of energy they use and to lower their bills.

“With high fuel prices, the coming winter will be difficult for many families and we are committed to supporting them. The government is continuing to consider the best ways of meeting this challenge.”

More voters would back Labour if PM quit, poll reveals

VOTERS would be more likely to back Labour if Gordon Brown stood down, a poll revealed yesterday.

The survey showed 46 per cent thought Mr Brown should stand down as Prime Minister, while 36 per cent say he should stay.

Asked who they would vote for if a general election was tomorrow, 46 per cent said the Tories, 26 per cent said Labour and 17 per cent the Liberal Democrats.

With Labour 20 points behind the Tories, 21 per cent said they would be more likely to vote Labour if Mr Brown was not the leader, while just 7 per cent say it would make them less likely to back Labour.

The poll found 13 per cent prefer Mr Brown to Mr Blair and only 5 per cent trust Mr Brown to manage the economy, while 32 per cent do not trust him.

Asked which Labour MP they thought would make the best prime minister, 12 per cent said David Miliband, the Foreign Secretary, who is widely suspected of preparing the ground for a possible leadership challenge.

One in ten thought Mr Brown would do the best job, 7 per cent said Jack Straw, the Justice Secretary, and 3 per cent backed Alan Johnson, the Health Secretary.

Ben Glanville of pollsters YouGov said: “These results are bad news for Gordon Brown.”

Page 1 of 1

  • Last Updated: 11 August 2008 12:43 AM
  • Source: The Scotsman
  • Location: Edinburgh
  • Related Topics: Labour Party
 
1

The Former Mr. Angry,

Perth 11/08/2008 00:16:49
There are a number of fatal flaws in this £150 proposal.

1) Guess where the cash will go? Energy bills or more fags/booze/Sky+ ? Or covering the golf club subscription, etc., if paid in cash rather than bill offset.
2) Letting the energy suppliers off the hook in terms of their outrageous charges, so they can feel more comfortable in the knowledge that the government is in essence covering the cost and cushioning the blow.
3) This is a highly selective reward which takes no account that people not in receipt of Child Benefit will effectively be subsidising the bills of those who do through taxation.

However where there's political value in it and possible extra votes that's where Gordon will be. Remember Wendy's unforgettable "underprivileged two year olds" nonsense? That's where he thinks he'll get the sympathy vote. Not from me he won't!
2

aliruadh,

Lairg 11/08/2008 00:38:32
So Gordon Brown is going to further subsidise the greedy energy suppliers! Difficult to understand the logic! Who do the Labour Party stand for?
3

somerferg,

perth 11/08/2008 01:09:10

Don't think this will save you Gordo - smacks of desperation but then whats new just look at the Liebour in Scotland - like weasels in a poke!
4

Jeff, Surrey,

11/08/2008 02:03:16
This money should be targeted at the elderly in need, thousands of whom will die prematurely because they cannot afford heating.

If elderly people do die because they cannot heat their homes sufficiently because of the costs this winter - Then this £150 give-away to families with children will come back to bite Brown big time...

Families with children especially, already use far too much heating many times whilst they watch tv or play computer games. If the children and their parents were far more active, rather than couch potatoes as many times they are today then far less heating would be necessary anyway.

5

Neil Waugh,

Old Strathcona 11/08/2008 04:11:58
Little late now. The Glasgow East by-election is over. Brown can't even get a political bribe right. Meanwhile the middle class can kiss Gordon's @ss, he's got the PMs job at last.
6

Soup kitchen,

11/08/2008 05:14:52
If you are an uneducated dolt, firvalous spender, benefits cheat, can't be bothered turning your heating down 1 degree or just generally a lazy sponger then you get free money to cover the costs of being a waster.

If you have done something with your life and have a decent education then you will no doubt have 40k of debt that needs to be paid off at 10% on top of eye watering taxes of 40% and council tax having doubled is around 2k which is another 10%. And then if you have anything left over you pay 17.5% VAT at the till or 50% fuel tax.

And after achieving in life and working hard and having paid 60-80% tax on everything. Alex Salmond gives your money to Islam for a party and Gordon Brown to Smeg heads so they can have a better standard of life than those that work.

There will be mass brain drain in Britain if this continues, I mean what's the point of working here? Benefits scum get more net "pay" than someone on 22k which is higher than the median income.
7

Pilrig.,

Livingston 11/08/2008 05:43:07
2 - it stands for working class heroes like Davie Marshall.
8

Pilrig.,

Livingston 11/08/2008 05:46:49
8 - a tory. And before you reply I'm one of those you mentioned on the 22 k and will get clobbered with the forthciming utility rise.
Never mind, yer hero Maggie told us that privatisation of utilities would benefit the country.
9

Pilrig.,

Livingston 11/08/2008 05:50:49
6 - the elderly don't matter much in the Broon scheme of things (presuming that there is a scheme,) remember the 75p pension increase ? And that he looted the private pension system in this country ?
10

Soup kitchen,

11/08/2008 05:56:43
10 Pilrig

I'm not a Tory. I believe in generous benefits to cover essentials. I just believe that playstations, cigarettes and vodka are luxuries.

There is no way benefit scum are going to cut back on those to meet the essentials out of the money we give them.
11

Jimmy Le Pie,

11/08/2008 07:03:26
Well at least Ian Rankin and Comrade Broon are trying to save the Union.


Can we expect a new novel from Rankin, where Rebus signs himself out of the Priory and battles to save the Union, single-handedly from the evil LIT and the worlds #1 arch-villain Alex Salmond and his moll Nicola.
Rebus, who gets help from a secretive ex Ulster B Special secret agent, known only as AM2, who is licensed by the Queen, (God bless Her!) to bore people to death, battles his own demons (he's too fond of the Clan McPish, 3 year old) and the shadowy nationalist known only as Traquir and his gang of cybernats.
With the plot moving rapidly between the Hootsmon and the Herald this will be Rankin's greatest novel, despite Rebus topping himself, rather than reading another line of AM2's statistical drivel and Scotland gaining her independence.
Rankin then bu6gers off, to live in Switzerland, (like all good socialists) to avoid paying LIT.
12

Pattester,

Galashiels 11/08/2008 07:27:42
When the hell will this government realise that the working man/woman is not here to subsidise the other people, there are some people out there who work bloody hard and don’t get even an inflation pay rise every year. We have to pay the big rises in fuel as well as the OAPs and the unemployed and just because we don't have any family at home we are not entitled to the handouts from GORDON BROWN and his so called working mans government. The OAPs get an extra £400 a year to cover costs of fuel plus if its really cold they get an extra cold weather payment as do a lot of the unemployed who are on certain benefits, what do the people who are lucky enough to have jobs even although we don't get paid a fortune some as little as £10000 to £12000 a year a BIG FAT NOTHING. The cost of all fuel is out of control by big company's making big profits for them and its share holders take heed Gordon TAX the greedy Bast**** so they won't want to make as much profits or re nationalize the utility companies and make sure they are not keeping the price down for the people who live in the rest of the EU at the expense of us in the UK. Don’t knacker the country just because you know fine if you keep going the way you’re going you have no chance of getting back into power the same way Maggie Thatcher did.
13

tommy M,

11/08/2008 07:34:08
Too little too late newliebour!

Heathcliff-North-Britain and Rankin have their mutual admiration to keep them warm. That was a sicht for sore eyes!
14

eric,

Lothian 11/08/2008 07:36:10
Its an admission of the MESS.
15

steve 1511,

aberdeen 11/08/2008 07:58:11
we are doomed under the leadership of comrade broon,doomed i tell you,the liebour eejits do not have a clue, they have squandered the countrys wealth and make up policy on the spur of the moment to get a news bite to bolster their popularity,liebour are doomed,doomed to oblivion in the future,and intend to leave the taxpayer with the massive debts of liebour failure
16

A Crofter,

Western Isles 11/08/2008 08:23:54
"Details of the secret £1 billion proposal emerged yesterday after a top civil servant was overheard on a train discussing them with a colleague."

Does this mean that the Hootsmon's intrepid journalists now get their stories from cruising the rail network for tittle-tattle?
17

Older Person,

Edinburgh 11/08/2008 08:37:29
Quote:-
"Child benefit is a universal benefit paid regardless of parental income and works out at £16.50 a week for the eldest child and £11.05 for subsequent children. It is currently paid for about 13 million children aged up to 16, or 19 if they are in full-time education."

Child benefit for the eldest child is currently paid at £18.50 a week for the eldest child and £12.55 for subsequent children. It is currently paid for children aged up to 20 if they are in full-time education.

How can a political editor get simple facts wrong?
18

Unimpressed one,

11/08/2008 08:39:42
#1, Whilst this may be true, many suspect that much of the "universal energy vouchers" i.e. cash, given to our pensioners each year is probably spent on fags and bingo. so if it's good enough for our pensioners it should be good enough for the rest of us.
19

carrottop,

Dumfries 11/08/2008 08:42:29
We still have large oil deposits off our shores and should benefit as a nation with subsidised fuel/heating bills (for everyone) as long as this lasts.
Nearly every oil producing nation uses its oil revenue to prepare for its future without this source of income by putting in a top quality infrastructure (including alternative energy), training its young for industries prepared to take over the earning role and making sure its environment is as safe as can be.
We must be bottom of the class in this subject!
20

lulach mac gille coemgain,

11/08/2008 09:30:27
‘Asked who they would vote for if a general election was tomorrow, 46 per cent said the Tories, 26 per cent said Labour and 17 per cent the Liberal Democrats.’

Does this poll reflect opinions in Scotland ?

or is it some Londoncentric news story projected onto the people of Scotland so that we should robotically fall in line with the belief ?
21

Jimmy Le Pie,

11/08/2008 09:41:03
I see the threads are getting destroyed by David Banks yet again. I got banned by AM2 for criticising him but this halfwit gets away with this garbage every day.

Looks like the Hootsmon is heading the same way as New Labour Sleaze - for the scrapheap!
22

Banana Heid,

Ayrshire 11/08/2008 09:46:20
Pathetically Paltry. The government should pay for us all to have wind and solar enrgy and heat installed in our homes, this would offset the huge energy bills and allow for some payback.
23

subrosa,

11/08/2008 09:57:09
# 25

Do you think 'David Banks' works out of John Smith House in Glasgow?
24

Hmmm!!!!,

11/08/2008 10:17:49
I am single and live on my own but will get no help at all despite bills going up like crazy and wages not going up at all. Why is it only unemployed, elderly and families are looked after in many government policies?
25

voltaire's janny,

11/08/2008 10:22:32
Pensioners! Did you know that the national state pension was funded on the expectation that you would all die off in a normal distribution centred on 68 years? Put another way, if you live three years after retirement you become a net "taker" getting more from the scheme than you ever paid in.

As life expectancy has soared, pensions have not. This is the pension crisis we shall all have to pay for.

All socialist minded wrinklies should turn themselves in for euthenasia and recycling for local energy needs thus allowing your hooded youf to keep their windaes open, fer the smoke but, and the heating up while playing Grand Theft Auto XIV paid for with benefits.

The social contract is broken when idle wasters get more than full time employees. The correction in the form of Tory government will swing the pendulum until we tire of their excesses in turn.

A permanent differential is needed, such that no-one in work and otherwise similar circumstances to someone out of work should take home less. Common sense methinks.


26

Soup kitchen,

11/08/2008 10:39:31
Labour is creating as many clients of the state as it can in the run up to the general election.

It begs the question, why take the money off of you in taxes in the first place if your just going to hand it back as cash?

Most people are too stupid to see that they are getting their own money back less £10 admin charge for processing.
27

,

11/08/2008 10:40:26
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
28

Jimmy Le Pie,

11/08/2008 10:43:05
Subrosa.

Could be John Smith Hoose or the Tory Central Office,
either way he's a Unionist
29

Soup kitchen,

11/08/2008 10:46:54
31 ptdoug

You're lying there and you know it.

That David Banks is the moniker of some seperatist moron. Probably you as you're also not very intelligent, such bitterness at yourself for being a failure and the rejection of your political agenda pushes your insecurities over the edge.

Spamming threads like that all week long is an offence under law. This website is a business and you deliberately set out to destroy the Scotsman's business.

You have no scruples, morales or decency.
30

Xena - Warrior Princess,

11/08/2008 11:00:38
The heating and lighting of our homes is a necessity regardless whether you have a family are single, or a pensioner - renationalise the utility companies now.
31

Soup kitchen,

11/08/2008 11:02:40
35

Gordon Brown is preparing to sell off our remaining 20% stake in British Gas don't you know?

So we have NO influence in teh boardroom.

The reason our prices are so high is so the owners of British Gas (can't remember if their french or italian) are under political pressure to keep prices down at home so hide ALL the rise in foreign Markets.

(ie British Gas regards Britain as foreign and so charges us more.)
32

Lock,

11/08/2008 11:04:11
A more holistic approach would be to increase emissions, add to global warming, giving us less need to heat our homes in the winter. With this the costs of production to certain enviromental targets would be reduced and prices at the moment would be lessened both through reduction in demand and lower costs to the producer.

33

weewumman,

Glaswegian in Bristol 11/08/2008 11:30:49
#15 Pattester

"We have to pay the big rises in fuel as well as the OAPs"
"The OAPs get an extra £400 a year to cover costs of fuel plus if its really cold they get an extra cold weather payment"

True, but do remember that many of us OAP's whose State pension and SERPS are often over the personal tax allowance, so we are still paying income tax on pensions we worked for and EARNED. We can't strike for higher pay rises and any we do get bear no resemblance on the actual rate of inflation, so we just keep falling further behind!
34

Davie from Irvine,

Ayrshire coast 11/08/2008 11:34:51
can the adminitrator or fellow poster nationalist,or unionist please tell me why threads such as the labour leadership contenders seeking to alter the council tax versus SNP local income tax, have comments removed en-mass, then the thread is closed ?.
35

Rob7,

England 11/08/2008 11:35:11
I can't remember the exact dates etc - so sorry about that. But, in the 90's the Tories placed a VAT on all power - think it started at 8%, to go upto 17.5% after a certain period. I thought Labour had said they would repeal the tax - but they never did.
36

Soup kitchen,

11/08/2008 11:44:47
40 Rob7

Oh my god.

£1 earned. 40% tax, 10% NI, 10% student loan (to buy the degree that led to 40% tax) and I'm left with 40p to buy electricity that includes a further 10p tax. 30p of "value" left.

I therefore have to earn over 300% of my f**king electricity bill to pay it. And in earning I disqualify myself from the "free money" by the very act of working extra hours to pay for other peoples.

Now, If you hand Scum bag benefit scroungers £150 then that is "net" cash. I would have to earn £400 to have £150 left after tax to pay bills. Where is my tax relief? Why can't I keep what I earn? Why do I bother working?

I tell you, a couple more years and then when I am fully qualified I'm off to Canada or Australia where I can get paid more, taxed less and have better services.

A therm of gas costs 20p by the way. The reason it's a £1 is because of a stupid rule linking it to oil.
37

Lock,

11/08/2008 11:48:02
#40,

VAT on domestic fuel/power is 5%.
38

Davie from Irvine,

Ayrshire coast 11/08/2008 12:25:20
Soup Kitchen, you were on the council tax thread early this morning, can you enlighten me as to what happened with the mass of posts being removed ?
39

Scottish 'N British,

11/08/2008 12:31:15
Re spam of CT thread.

Trawl back and you'll find 'David Banks' regularly posted SNP-supporting guff.

This has Separatist fingerprints all over it.
40

Scottish 'N British,

11/08/2008 12:32:44
BTW

Brown's plans are waaay short of what is needed.

Looks liek Salmond isn't the only one making up policy on the hoof.
41

Davie from Irvine,

11/08/2008 12:39:10
44 All thats there is from 47 to 1000 is deleted, and ive never heard od David Banks
42

Guga II,

Rockall 11/08/2008 12:52:46
Why can't the Hootsmon IT staff just block the IP of that nutter "David Banks"?
43

sweet76,

Coventry 11/08/2008 12:57:04
If my family qualifies for the £150 it will be going on new jumpers, hats and scarfes. There's no way I'm giving to foreign owned energy companies to line thier pockets with!
44

Soup kitchen,

11/08/2008 12:57:08
43 Davie

I said something about the SNP being as bad as Labour and then banks started spamming the site with the same obscenity about me and another.

I think there is a deranged SNP voter that often logs on and has multiple log ins.
45

Soup kitchen,

11/08/2008 12:59:21
Oh yeah, watch out for ptdoug and brownlie as well. They aren't very well informed and can both be a bit racist and violent to 'compensate'.
46

brusque,

11/08/2008 13:05:08
I was wondering about the Labour Candidates C/T thread!

It seems it has been closed off completely now, as i tried to post in it a little while ago.

There must be an easy way for IT staffers to ban an IP? If they can do it on Bebo and other sites, they can surely do it here.

Same thing yesterday - although I think it sometimes suits the Scotsman to be obstructive about comments. Strangely, that wasn't the case when we had Labour activists posting vile comments every other minute.
47

G.Campbell,

11/08/2008 13:06:24
#24 lulach mac gille coemgain,

Here are the figures for the Scottish subset of the YouGov poll:

SNP 43%

Lab 23%

Con 15%

Lib 15%
48

Davie from Irvine,

Ayrshire coast 11/08/2008 13:07:09
49 soup kitchen, if that is the case of it being an SNP voter, then he is not representing the views of SNP members and the majority of SNP posters who welcome sensible democratic debate, i for one do not agree with AM2 for example, but as he is not obusive i am strongly in favour of his right to post his views, which we can then debate over.
49

Rabbies Wee Bruthir,

11/08/2008 13:08:35
With regard to David Banks , you should, perhaps spell his surname with a W rather than a B.

Oh and Bluster 'N Fluster ' #44 the first rule of political warfare is discredit your opponents, which I see you are trying to do by inferring that the said David Banks is a Scottish National Party supporter.

More likely he is a Unionist trying to disrupt these threads because the CyberOnionists have taken such a battering over the last several months if not years.

As I and others have said to you before 'put up or shut up'.

My own personal feeling on this one is that he is using 'bot' technology, and if the 'Hootsmauns' site is so insecure that it can't detect a bot and isolate it immediately, then their IT manager is a P lonker, and should be replaced by someone who knows what they are doing.
After all rocket science .... it ain't!!!

BOT: As usual Broon expects single people to foot the bill for those who wish to indulge in the third great evil, after old age and senior management, that being fruitful marriage.
Give all those people huge handouts and let the single poor pay for them, after all if your single, you have too much money and will only waste it on booze binges, fags and Pete Doherty CD's, so be prepared for an emergency reduction in the 'Single Persons Tax Allowance'.
50

Davie from Irvine,

Ayrshire coast 11/08/2008 13:12:29
51 brusque, i agree with you, abusive posts should be removed and spammers and abusive and racist postsers should be removed whether nationalist or unionist, im sure the majority of us are of the same mind.
51

brusque,

11/08/2008 13:20:39
It is an outrage to suggest that one group are more deserving of a subsidy, than another.

What about those of us who are single, paying all bills with only one income, have no children and are not yet pensioners?

Is our fuel bill expected to be less than those of a "family"?

Brown is a headless chicken, and when his "thoughts" are leaked in this way, I can't help feeling that he wants to avoid another 10p Tax fiasco, by getting an idea of what the public think.

If only I could say exactly what I think!
52

JCA REID,

Annan 11/08/2008 13:23:53
Spot on #4!!!
I'd draft in a bunch of Project Managers from Scandanavia/Germany /Switzerland & let them run the country!! This bunch of 3rd. Class graduates , but are #1 Chancers, liars & cheats should be put up against a wall & shot!!
53

Davie from Irvine,

11/08/2008 13:25:02
54 Rabbies Wee Bruthir, i agree, the hootsmans moderator is not efficiant, i had a post removed last year which i was replying to a lady from London, she had read it before it was taken down and told me she did not understand why it was taken down as my comment was courtiuse and polite, yet we see nasty posts staying on.
54

brusque,

11/08/2008 13:25:09
55 Davie; Absolutely......when people resort to abusive ranting, it is clear they have nothing further to contribute to the debate.

It seems the Scotsman have been very slow to do this in the past, when Labour activists have been incredibly offensive, but I'll be quite happy if this new found "censoring" is applied to the vile comments of ALL sides of the debate, in future:-)
55

Davie from Irvine,

11/08/2008 13:37:19
59 Hear hear as they say.
56

Soup kitchen,

11/08/2008 13:48:02
The offensive posts from those opposing get moderated frequently and rapidly.

Those who support the SNP are like a cult. They get upset when they see their leaders talked about in bad light and report abuse for nothing.

Whereas insults against any of the main parties don't get moderated very often. The reason being most mainstream party voters have more important things to do than "tell teacher".

The SNP voters on here really are a crass, immature and pedantic bunch. Possibly even just the same lone-nutter. (An es-SNP press officer who was wuite publically thrown out the SNP for being a nut-case, Banks has his paw prints all over it.)
57

Davie from Irvine,

11/08/2008 13:53:11
61, i take it then that you are generelizing al Scot nats in the same way,
58

,

11/08/2008 14:07:17
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
59

Davie from Irvine,

Ayrshire coast , former Royal Burgh part of Irvine 11/08/2008 14:20:46
63 soup kitchen, is that enough detail above ? My username states i am from Irvine. Where are you ? and what age are you ?
60

Davie from Irvine,

Ayrshire coast 11/08/2008 14:22:20
Moderator please do not remove soup kitchens post at 63.
61

Neil Waugh,

Old Strathcona 11/08/2008 14:34:19
#63

Now our Alex and the SNP are responsible for African famine.
Can't wait until that vile piece of work Magga Curran gets on this one. The unionistas really are losing it.
Did you forget to take your pills again, Soup Kitchen?
62

PaulB,

Edinburgh 11/08/2008 14:53:59
As usual it is all albout helping out 'hard-working' families - what about us single people with no children for a change! We are not burdening the education and health-care system and scrounging child benefits - we just get hit from all sides with nothing in return. We work and we pay tax but get f all in return - not even a tax allowance! Give everyone the money or it looks like discrimination.
63

Scottish 'N British,

11/08/2008 15:07:22
54

DUH!! You'll probably find that his 'contributions', including the single ones, will have been deleted.

And that's why you have asked for "proof".

But if you've been round here for the last few weeks, you'll know, hand on heart, that he's "one of yours".

Not a nice thing to have to own up to, and I can understand why you wouldn't want to, but hey....

64

Scottish 'N British,

11/08/2008 15:09:16
Salmond's to blame for a looong list of broken promises and for failing the people of Kosovo when they needed him, but Africa?

Naaw....
65

Resolutions,

11/08/2008 15:10:39
#65 What a vile set of comments you generated at #63. Offensive as they are, they do show up a really vile individual.

#67 Single people have benefitted from the system so stop complaining when others appear to have benefitted. I assume, if you have the misfortune to be ill you are treated by the NHS and you obviously have no idea of the cost of rearing a child today not of existing on a fixed pension. Do you even know how to budget?

As for those who tar all benefit claimants/beneficiaries as scroungers, think again. There but for the grace of God you may go. As one on a small pension, in addition to the state, I receive the £100 heating allowance/grant. I assure you it does not go very far.

There is plenty of careful budgeting here, no wasting fuel, no high thermostats, careful use of food money, clothes bought when needed, lots of re-cycling and we are far from alone in this. We have saved for treats now and then as well as rainy days of which there seem to be rather a lot.

MODERATORS WILL YOU SORT OUT THE 'SPAM MANIACS' RUINING THREADS ON YOUR BOARDS AS A MATTER OF PRIORITY,
66

wattie>x 1,

PLYMOUTH 11/08/2008 15:14:24
Brown lives in cloud cuckee land and has no conception what life is(now and the future s going to be)for millions off ordinary people!
Brown's Utopia is OK if you possess plenty of cash!
What difference does it make what the 'price'of every day essentials are, if you are a wealthy financial friend and supporter of this political ambitiuous careerist?
Probably, because it means the early death of many elderly, that will give him and his wealthy supporters cash to spend in their quest to make this small 2008 insignifcant island since 1945 and was brought in to the REAL world and not the mythical and fantasy nonsene we have been brain washed when children into believing over the past centuries?
67

Resolutions,

11/08/2008 15:16:09
#61 Are you describing yourself? Certainly few others on here seem to fit your scenario? You really are rather vile.
68

brownlie,

11/08/2008 16:01:26
50 Soap Kitchen

I'm at a loss to understand why you categorise me as being "racist" and "violent" so perhaps you can give me some insight into your contention.

I have been posting here for quite some time before you, or your new monkier, came on the scene and I do not recall even using any form of abuse on this post. I certainly never refer to anyone as "scumbags" or "carrying the mark of the beast".
69

brownlie,

11/08/2008 16:14:37
63 Soup Kitchen

Having read your comments at #63 I now realise that you are in fact Paisley Pete/Ciderman and the offensive Dane etc under a new name.

I now see, from previous experience, why you posted your offensive personal remarks at #50.
70

,

11/08/2008 16:18:38
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
71

brownlie,

11/08/2008 16:29:40
75 David Banks

You are not redressing any balance - you are merely denying posters on here the opportunity to put their point - whether they are unionist or nationalist or don't knows.

You are also contributing to attempts by unionist posters to categorise nationalist posters and vice versa.
72

Scottish 'N British,

11/08/2008 16:38:17
54

Oh and Bluster 'N Fluster ' #44 the first rule of political warfare is discredit your opponents, which I see you are trying to do by inferring that the said David Banks is a Scottish National Party supporter.

More likely he is a Unionist trying to disrupt these threads because the CyberOnionists have taken such a battering over the last several months if not years.

As I and others have said to you before 'put up or shut up'.


hehehe

See 76 above. You were saying?
73

,

11/08/2008 16:46:15
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
74

Broddr,

11/08/2008 16:46:31
Obviously everyone who claims benefits is "scum". At least according to the posters on here.

Why don't we stop beating around the bush, round 'em all up and shoot the lazy layabouts!

They can't be bothered to get a good education and a good job, they deserve all they get.

We all know everyone on benefits lays around a luxury 4 bedroom mansion, drinking and smoking and laughing at the suckers who go out to work.

It is the same as incapacity benefit, they are all just scroungers, not one of them is genuinely ill or disabled, they all put it on.

Same as all Scots are alcoholics who wear kilts and have ginger hair and walk about the place saying "Och aye the noo" and "hoots man"

Generalisation is a dangerous business.
75

brownlie,

11/08/2008 16:55:37
78 David Banks

If you can't stand the heat etc etc. It is very frustrating for individuals who have a point to put across to be deprived of that opportunity by you helping the Scotsman to pull the thread.

What I do believe is that those such as shift-workers, individuals who work from home etc etc do enjoy trying to see someone else's viewpoints on subjects covered by this paper. The paper's perceived bias is not really relevant.
76

,

11/08/2008 17:06:53
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
77

brownlie,

11/08/2008 17:13:39
81 David Banks

Sorry, mate, that is absolute nonsense - unionists are entitled to have their say otherwise it would be a very monotonous thread and we do not need you to judge which article we can post on or not.
78

,

11/08/2008 17:21:14
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
79

,

11/08/2008 17:28:34
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
80

Scottish 'N British,

11/08/2008 18:00:18
85,86,87 - please read 82 once again

That you try to find ways to prove that this is the workings of a Unionist is one thing - but having been confronted with the damning evidence, it's frankly embarrassing to see SNP supporters continuing to deny it.

IMHuO, the overwhelming majority of abuse thrown by posters are by Separatists towards us Unionists/Federalists.

81

Scottish 'N British,

11/08/2008 18:02:41
BTW, I have post 78, his most recent effort, saved to Word, if you need anymore evidence.
82

brownlie,

11/08/2008 18:26:51
89 Scottish 'n British

I do not see what my posting at #82 has to do with Hoots's contention that David Banks is Soup Kitchen. I was merely repeating my contention that every shade of political opinion could be posted on any news-story.

I do not see how anyone can say that there is damning evidence in taking his word regarding his SNP stance. If he was a unionist he is hardly likely to confess to that, is he?

Whoever he is this site can do without him.
83

Soup kitchen,

11/08/2008 18:28:48
93 Brownlie/Ayrshire Scot/Mehtalions/Union is Nest/ David Banks

Give it a rest you bore. Your mutiple logins and deranged SNP support that frioths over into bile and violence with twists of racism should cease.
84

What is the Union Dividend anyway ?,

Self determination, not supplication 11/08/2008 18:56:41
Perhaps more the point is this.

Accepting that as there is no moderation of email accounts, anyone can create any number of logins, then there are bound to be multiple posters.

Part of the fun is in finding these people and "outing" them and most have the good grace to accept this in the spirit of fun it is meant to be.

My question is how come threads can be spammed out of existence ? Eg 1000 posts.

It is perfectly possible to block logins from posting. There are many people on this site who have attested to this and who have had logins blocked - and all of their comments deleted - because the moderator dislikes the content, and not because the content is sweary or libellous either.

Some people even claim certain poster logins are Hootsmon employees, claiming this to be proven by premidnight postings, and threads disliked for political content being "disappeared" quicker than an Argentinian dissident under Galtieri.

This might of course explain the spamming to 1000 when arguments are being lost and the deletion of logins and posts. Or there might be some innocent explanation maybe, but fact is the mods can indeed stop people posting to 1000 with nonsense easily as they block others all the time for nothing, so that they do not, well draw your own conclusions.

Expect this deleted for being a bit close to the truth no doubt, but if they really believe in freedom of speech, then maybe it will stay.

85

What is the Union Dividend anyway ?,

Self determination, not supplication 11/08/2008 19:18:14
# I know. It ruins things.

My point is, the mods can stop this, exactly as they have blocked other logins and deleted people. The inference I was also making is that they choose not to if allowing this to happen means that perfectly good threads get destroyed, especially when these do not toe the party line. Easier to allow one spammer to disrupt than to bin any number of individuals, and hope that many lose heart and quit posting.
86

What is the Union Dividend anyway ?,

Self determination, not supplication 11/08/2008 19:18:50
100 for independence.
87

Davie from Irvine,

Ayrshire coast 11/08/2008 19:24:42
Soup Kitchen does sound like an English voice, the same silly offensive immature slurs on posters.
88

Davie from Irvine,

Auld Irvine Burgh Ayrshire coast 11/08/2008 19:28:21
And i dont beleive soup kitchen English voice is English, rather he is insulting English folk to.
89

brownlie,

11/08/2008 19:30:20
94 Paisley Pete

Unlike you, neither you nor anyone else can cite one posting to justify your accusation of violence, bile or racism and, unlike you, I have never had to change my moniker.

Still, no doubt, you will soon lose the plot again the same as you did last week under your Dane Bramage moniker. It must be quite monotonous having to change your name when you make an ass of yourself.
90

What is the Union Dividend anyway ?,

Self determination, not supplication 11/08/2008 19:36:14
#103

I agree with your sentiment; this poster is indeed a tool, but plenty of reasonable posters have been blocked by a certain poster to this site for no reason, eg non sweary, non libellous.
91

brownlie,

11/08/2008 19:41:51
105 What is the Union Dividend anyway?

I sent an e-mail to the Scotsman asking how they can allow the site to be hijacked by an idiotic posting and why quite innocuous posts are being deleted whereas a foul and offensive one was retained for quite some time but have received no reply.
92

Soup kitchen,

11/08/2008 19:56:13
105 Brownlie

That's because you provide fake email addresses.

Although you probably didn't email them, you are constantly sniping at the temerity of anyone to post an opinion that the SNP are bad for Scotland.

Your alter-egos David Banks et al are easy to spot. Your lack of intelligence, violent tendancies, insecurities and undercurrents of racism are prevalent in your every word.

You brought David Banks into existance when you got so upset at people laughing at you and the SNP. Whenever someone mentions one of the many promises the SNP have broken and points out they're liars like Labour, you lose it again.

Then the spamming begins.

It's a shame you do this brownlie because it is effective in destroying this website. Which if you didn't like you were free to leave at any time.

Typical thuggery from the SNP clique.
93

What is the Union Dividend anyway ?,

Self determination, not supplication 11/08/2008 19:56:21
Aye. So did I in a previous life here.

I think that kind of proves the point I made at #97.
94

What is the Union Dividend anyway ?,

Self determination, not supplication 11/08/2008 19:58:53
106

On what basis is scotland incapable of managing itself as an independent state, either in terms of the political capability of it's inhabitants or in economic terms ?

How is unionism the majority position when less than 1/3rd of all eligible voters voted for unionist parties last time at holyrood ?

If you can give us a coherent argument against the above,maybe some might take your comments seriously.
95

Jimmy Le Pie,

11/08/2008 20:14:35
I've got to laugh at the spammers.

Too stupid to engage in serious debate or discussion.

Too stupid to even remember their monikers (British Pride/Highland Mighty).

Sad stupid people.

Mind you they aren't intelligent enough to hijack the Herald threads!!!
96

charlesn,

11/08/2008 20:21:01
Interesting article in The Observer, Sunday, August 10, 2008:

"Scotland plans link to Norway power supply"

By Tim Webb

Scotland is drawing up plans to build the world's longest electricity connector - to Norway - to help meet its renewable targets and end its dependence on nuclear power. The whole project could cost more than £2bn.

Jim Mather, the Scottish Executive's energy minister, will meet his Norwegian counterpart in October to discuss the proposal.

The plan could raise the hackles of MPs already concerned about Scottish politicians' push for independence. The UK depends on Scotland for most of its oil revenues and renewable energy resource. Politicians in Westminster are worried that full Scottish independence would further undermine the security of the UK's energy supply.

Scotland is much windier than England, Wales or Northern Ireland, and also has green hydro-electric power. It has set a target of getting half its electricity from renewable sources such as wind power by 2020, compared to the UK's goal of generating about a third from renewables.

However, instead of building dirty coal plants to back up its wind farms, Scotland wants to connect to Norway's grid to solve the problem. Scotland's ruling party, the SNP, has committed not to build any new nuclear reactors.

Norway gets almost all its electricity from hydro-power, which works by releasing water from a higher reservoir into a lower reservoir via a turbine which generates electricity. The water is then pumped back up to the higher reservoir for use later. If the 1,000km (620-mile) connector between the countries is built, when Scotland is windy and has surplus electricity, it would be exported to Norway to provide power to pump the water back up into its higher reservoirs.

When the wind does not blow in Scotland and there is a shortage of power, Norway would activate its hydro-plants to make up the shortfall. This would solve the issue of wind power's intermittency, fr
97

charlesn,

11/08/2008 20:24:05
(continuation)

When the wind does not blow in Scotland and there is a shortage of power, Norway would activate its hydro-plants to make up the shortfall. This would solve the issue of wind power's intermittency, frequently cited by critics.

Scotland wants to use the connector to provide power to North Sea oil operators. Drilling rigs and platforms use about four gigawatts of electricity, equivalent to the demand from about four cities the size of Birmingham. Currently, operators use expensive and dirty diesel generators or gas to power their facilities.

Paul O'Brien, senior executive of government organisation Scottish Development International in Glasgow, said: 'Scotland has got to replace nuclear power. We realise there are issues over backing up renewables, but we don't want to use fossil fuel plants to do this. There is also a special opportunity to extend the life of the North Sea oil fields.'

98

Davie from Irvine,

Ayrshire coast 11/08/2008 20:26:21
110 and 111 intereting reading.
99

brownlie,

11/08/2008 20:27:29
106 Paisley Pete

Is that an attempt to distract attention from this site?

I have been posting on this site under my own name a lot longer than you without any problems.

You failed to find any racism or violence in my postings whereas your postings are becoming increasingly bizarre so I'll leave you to your fantasy world
100

Oldnat,

11/08/2008 20:32:23
I knew the Scotsman was a fairly cr*p paper, but can't it put into place on its website, the fairly simple programming to avoid the spamming?
101

subrosa,

12/08/2008 00:26:18
# 110 # 111

Interesting thanks. Missed that yesterday.
102

Ugly George,

Edinburgh 13/08/2008 10:16:41
This latest policy is pure desperation. Gordon Brown is not acknowledging that the problem with rising fuel and food costs is worse here than in most other countries as Sterling has fallen in value (against most currencies) over the last year. One of the reasons Sterling has fallen is the high level of Government debt. He is now trying to splash out more money to save his own skin but this will increase debt further adding yet more pressure on Sterling and worsening the situation in the medium to long term.
103

Toom,

03/09/2008 10:09:40
#20 "#1, Whilst this may be true, many suspect that much of the "universal energy vouchers" i.e. cash, given to our pensioners each year is probably spent on fags and bingo. so if it's good enough for our pensioners it should be good enough for the rest of us."

As someone in receipt of heating allowance, I have no need of it. However, my pension fund is taxed, my private pension is taxed as earned income, my 'tax-free' equity PEPs are taxed, the interest on my savings (which are losing value against inflation) is taxed, etc, etc.

I'd like to be left with enough money to have free choices to care for myself in old age. However, my every effort is taxed, so in return I take advantage of the patronising baubles of bus pass and heating allowance. My heating allowance I donate to a charity - which can reclaim tax on it!!

The simple answer is to leave people with more of their own money, and link that to more responsibility to make provision for themselves.

 

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