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Banker blames all of us for credit crunch

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Published Date: 27 September 2008
AT THE end of a week that has seen the world brought to the brink of economic crisis, one of Scotland's most prominent business leaders yesterday said: "We are all to blame."
Archie Kane, one of the key architects of the HBOS rescue deal with Lloyds TSB, said consumers were as much at fault as the so-called "spivs and speculators" for bringing about the global meltdown.

His sobering message came as the US struggled las
t night to close a $700 billion deal to bail out banks, and the markets were hit with yet more uncertainty.

Mr Kane, the chief executive of Scottish Widows and a main board member of Lloyds TSB, believes bankers and consumers are equally guilty of creating the conditions for the liquidity crunch threatening the western economic system with an over-reliance on debt.

In an exclusive interview with The Scotsman, he said "we are all guilty" of contributing to what he called the "error of cheap finance".

"Everybody is responsible, from consumers all the way to investment bankers. Everybody has been involved in what has happened and everybody has fuelled it," he said.

Mr Kane said a tipping point had been reached where consumers and bankers alike could expect the economy to function on far less debt than in the past ten to 15 years, which would also result in cheaper "depressed" assets such as homes.

"The capitalisation of banks in the western world will be different. And what does it mean for all of us? The best way of describing it is the error of cheap money is gone and it isn't coming back."

Mr Kane – whose earnings are believed to top £1.25 million a year, including a performance bonus of £715,000 – is the longest standing member of the main board of Lloyds TSB, the parent company of Scottish Widows.

Having engineered the takeover of TSB by Lloyds, Mr Kane will now play a key role in shaping the merged Lloyds-HBOS. He was appointed chief executive of Scottish Widows five years ago, in place of Mike Ross.

Douglas Stewart, chairman of the Scottish Consumer Council, dismissed Mr Kane's comments as "seeking to rewrite history".

"Consumers have simply reacted to the products that have been offered by the banks," he said.

"The financial institutions were happy to allow their customers to believe that they were highly regulated, honest and trustworthy.

"People who had stuck with the same bank for years did not question that the extra credit offer they took was unwise or that the advice to take up a particular mortgage deal was dangerous. Some sympathy for the people who are now paying such a high price for simply trusting their banks would not go amiss."

Fiona Moriarty, director of the Scottish Retail Consortium, said this was "not the time to be pointing the finger at anyone outside the banking arena".

"We should be focusing on the problems within the banking and finance industries," she said.

"Retailers have undoubtedly had a difficult couple of months and as we enter the crucial run-up to Christmas, people will be shopping around more than ever before, and the retailers who do best will be the ones who are able to provide the right product at the right price."

Bryan Johnston, of the stockbroker Bell Lawrie, said: "There is a lot of truth in what Archie Kane is saying. We have bought into the whole culture of having tomorrow today and of treating loans like a gift. As a society, we seem to have forgotten the old adage that unless you can afford it, you don't buy it."

Mr Kane also hit out at the 'Save the Bank' consortium being convened by SNP MSP Alex Neil as an "opt out strategy" and that people who disagree that the deal needs to take place "deny reality".

He said: "I do find it strange that people can envisage they could somehow alter the global financial environment and deny reality. I don't understand how anyone who is in the know would come to a conclusion like that. Most serious people don't ascribe to opt out strategies."

More banks around world show strain

THE US Senate was still frantically trying to thrash out a £700 billion economic rescue plan last night as cracks began to appear in major banks across the globe.

In Europe, the Belgian-Dutch bank Fortis was forced to deny it faced a liquidity crisis and said it would sell more assets as its shares fell to a 14-year low.

In the US, after the collapse of Washington Mutual Bank on Thursday, concerns were being raised about the country's last two investment banks – Morgan Stanley and Goldman Sachs.

International concern about a global meltdown was also highlighted by one of the world's fasting growing economies – Brazil. National Development Bank president Luciano Coutinho warned that such a catastrophe was possible because the world's economies are so tightly linked.

Meanwhile, Gordon Brown, the Prime Minister, backed the rescue package during a visit to the US. He called for "an end to the age of irresponsibility".

The spotlight in the US yesterday was on Morgan Stanley in particular as it struggled to secure an equity investment of as much as $8.5 billion from Japan's Mitsubishi UFJ Financial Group. Last week, its stock price halved.

Goldman Sachs had yesterday seen off some of the concerns by raising £10 billion of capital.

In the UK, shares in Bradford & Bingley, already the subject of speculation after 370 redundancies on Thursday, fell 20 per cent to 17p at one point before recovering slightly.

Added to that, HSBC signalled it might be in trouble by shedding 1,100 jobs.

Leading central banks tried to buy breathing space. The European Central Bank, the US Federal Reserve, the banks of England and Japan, and the Swiss National Bank announced new short-term banking sector loans worth tens of billions of dollars.

The continued uncertainty pushed the FTSE down 108.55. There was more optimism in the US as the Senate debate dragged on. Early trading saw the Dow Jones drop 33.55 points but it later rallied to 26.69 above its opening level.

An optimistic President Bush insisted that, after the failure on Thursday to get a rescue package through Congress, a deal could be struck last night.

"There is no disagreement that something substantial must be done," he said.

The Senate majority leader Harry Reid made it clear that the sitting would not end until something could be worked out. He said: "We're going to get this done and stay in session as long as it takes to get it done."

But there was a disappointing early sign when a $56.2 billion economic stimulus package – that would have extended unemployment benefits, increased food aid and funded new construction projects to create jobs – was blocked by the Senate. It had been seen as a possible sweetener for the $700 billion package.

Despite the deepening crisis, both presidential candidates – John McCain and Barack Obama – took up the cudgels again in the race for the White House after Mr McCain had suspended his campaign. They both flew to Mississippi for their first debate, which had at one point looked like being cancelled.

Angus Howarth

Paulson on his knees to beg for $700 billion dollar bail-out

OVER the past 48 hours, Washington has witnessed a series of incredible scenes, including the Treasury Secretary going down on bended knee to beg the Speaker of the House of Representatives to pass the multi-billion-dollar bail-out.

The world could only look on with bated breath last night as American politicians continued to tussle over a historic $700 billion (£367 billion) deal that, if rejected, could trigger an unprecedented global financial collapse.

Two days after President Bush appeared ashen-faced before the nation to insist that if Congress did not act immediately, America would "slip into financial panic", he was yesterday forced to make a brief statement, prior to the opening bell on Wall Street, in which he said that while Congress can express doubts, they should "rise to the occasion" and approve a plan to stave off economic calamity.

Last night, the world was waiting with a deepening awareness that when the US sneezes, the rest of the planet can catch a cold.

In Washington, a disturbing endgame is being played out, between an exhausted, unpopular president whose term in office could not have contained more disastrous events, and two candidates for the Oval Office.

The road to the impasse began two days ago in Washington, in the broad, white hearing rooms of Congress, when Treasury Secretary Hank Paulson's attempts to persuade legislators on both sides to push through the plan stuck in the mud.

Over the past few days, the former CEO of Goldman Sachs, whose personal fortune is estimated at £200 million, had been called a socialist and told to do his "remedial homework" by his fellow Republicans.

He was not the only one forced to go cap in hand. Dick Cheney, the most powerful vice-president in American history, was reduced to stoically enduring round after round of verbal attacks from Republican senators who, in the words of one lobbyist, saw him "ripped into shreds".

It was often standing room only as Democrats and Republicans argued for hours, fuelled only by bottles of still mineral water and cups of coffee in bone-china saucers and their BlackBerrys on mute. The mood was broken only by the arrival of a persistent protester who managed to break in and brandish a placard decrying corporate "welfare" before security guards bundled him to the ground.

Yet after spending Thursday morning behind closed doors, senior politicians from both parties emerged shortly before 1pm into the corridors on the first floor of the Capitol building to herald their agreement on the broad outlines of a deal.

They said the legislation, which would authorise unprecedented government intervention to buy distressed debt from private firms, would include limits on pay packages for executives of some firms that seek assistance and a mechanism for the government to take an equity stake in some of the companies, so taxpayers have a chance to profit if the bail-out plan works.

Robert Bennett, a Republican member of the banking committee, stated: "I now expect we will indeed have a plan that can pass the House, pass the Senate, be signed by the president ."

But a few blocks away, a senior House Republican was at a lunch with reporters, at which he said the party would never go along with the deal. The Republican, who was not named, said Representative Eric Cantor of Virginia, the chief deputy whip, was circulating an alternative course that would rely on government-backed insurance, not taxpayer-financed purchase of mortgage assets.

He said the recalcitrant Republicans were calculating that the Democratic Speaker of the house Mrs Pelosi, who had the power to push the bill through using Democratic support alone, would not want to leave her party politically exposed during the election campaign by passing a bail-out bill without rank-and-file Republican support. "You can have all the meetings you want," said the Republican, referring to the White House session with Bush, the presidential candidates and congressional leaders, then scheduled to take place in a few hours time. "It comes to the floor and the votes aren't there. It won't pass."

The problem was the Republicans had spent days expressing their unease about a huge government intervention, which they regard as a step down the path to socialism.

When congressional leaders and Mr McCain and Mr Obama trooped to the White House on Thursday afternoon, most signs pointed toward a bipartisan agreement on a grand compromise that could be signed into law by the weekend.

It was intended to pump billions of dollars into the financial system, restoring liquidity and keeping credit flowing to businesses and consumers.

Shortly before 4pm, President Bush told reporters gathered in the Cabinet Room, where the meeting would take place: "We're in a serious economic crisis. My hope is we can reach an agreement very shortly."

But once the doors closed, it quickly became apparent that "very shortly" was going to take some time.

Mr McCain was seated at one end of the walnut table, while his opponent Mr Obama took a seat at the opposite end.

The president and senior congressional leaders sat between them. The meeting began with Mr Paulson giving an update on the market's condition and warning of his concern that the credit market would further tighten overnight. While Mr Obama peppered the Treasury Secretary with questions, Mr McCain kept his counsel.

Then John Boehner, the Republican leader of the House, surprised many in the room by declaring that his party could not support the plan as it currently stood.

He pressed an alternative that involved a smaller role for the government, and Mr McCain, whose support of the deal is critical if fellow Republicans are to sign on, and who had listened to their concerns earlier, declined to take a stand. The stalemate that was crippling the world remained in place.

As Senator Richard Shelby, the senior Republican on the banking committee, said after leaving the meeting: "The agreement is obviously no agreement."

After the session, in an attempt to salvage a deal, Mr Paulson went to an extraordinary length.

In the Roosevelt Room, he bent down on one knee to plead with Nancy Pelosi and urge her not to "blow it up" by withdrawing her party's support for the package over what the Speaker derided as a Republican betrayal.

"I didn't know you were Catholic," Ms Pelosi responded to Mr Paulson, who is actually a Christian Scientist.

She then added: "It's not me blowing this up, it's the Republicans."

Mr Paulson then reportedly sighed and agreed: "I know. I know."

Meanwhile, President Bush, angered by the meeting's failure, said: "If money isn't loosened up, this sucker could go down."

Things were already going down. On Thursday evening, federal regulators seized the Washington Mutual bank as the giant lender that had come to symbolise the excesses of the mortgage boom became the largest bank failure in American history.

Regulators simultaneously brokered an emergency sale of virtually all of the nation's largest savings and loan bank, to JPMorgan Chase for $1.9 billion, averting another potentially huge taxpayer bill for the rescue of a failing institution.

At 8pm, US time, on Thursday Barney Frank, the lead Democratic negotiator, headed back to the Rules Committee room on the second floor of the Senate side of the Capitol, for another meeting with Mr Paulson and other congressional leaders in an attempt to restart negotiations and so fend off more volatility in the markets yesterday morning. At 10:30 pm, the meeting was adjourned.

Laws, said the 19th century German chancellor, Otto von Bismarck, are like sausages. "It is better not to see them being made."

The ugly scenes of the previous night were referred to by President Bush in a brief statement yesterday morning timed to coincide with the opening of the New York financial markets, when he said: "The legislative process is sometimes not very pretty".

He continued: "But we are going to get a package passed.

"We will rise to the occasion. Republicans and Democrats will come together and pass a substantial rescue plan."

In order to assist this coming together, Mr Cheney had cancelled a trip to New Mexico and Wyoming, and returned to Washington for meetings.

In various rooms, the politicians began reviewing a 102-page proposal based on a consensus outline hammered out by members of the House and Senate the previous day.

But last night, as efforts to strike a deal in Congress continued, a poll said that only 30 per cent of Americans support the package which will cost the equivalent of £1,270 for each man, women and child in the country.

Stephen McGinty



Page 1 of 1

  • Last Updated: 26 September 2008 10:06 PM
  • Source: The Scotsman
  • Location: Edinburgh
  • Related Topics: Economic indicators
 
1

karinxxx,

27/09/2008 00:15:46
what a banker.
2

Evolution in action,

St Andews 27/09/2008 00:24:01
Lets see, most of us did not buy a house or houses on sub prime loans. Most of us did not get fat bonus checks at the years end. The majority did not pass pieces of paper electronically from one bank to another and get paid for it. Best of all the majority of us do not have to look for a new job in banking at this difficult time. So lets have a rethink who is to blame and who should pay the piper.
3

Tris,

27/09/2008 00:25:40

I'd like him to tell me personally how I have caused it.

So that I don't do it again you understand.

Total banker, completely removed from reality, on his 6 figure salary.

Go away Archie, you tw*t
4

somerferg,

perth 27/09/2008 00:26:58
Yes Karinxxx I was just thinking the same myself along with how unusual it is for this rag to have a go at Alex Salmond (surprised they haven't blamed our FM for the global economic crisis itslef) oh and of course Ma Broon gets only a glowing mention because of course he and his pack of no hopers at Wasteminster didn't sit back and allow this to happen.
5

Fifi la Bonbon,

27/09/2008 00:28:39
What a filthy, slimy creep this Archie Kane is. Did the oily toads in the banking industry minions tell their customers not to take the offers put forward by the bank because they might not be in their own best interests? Did they decline to extend debt limits?

Not a chance. Instead, they will have beseiged customers with offers, lines of credit, opportunities to switch over to new products, and all the rest.

This foul, overpaid fat cat now has the gall to preach at us, the victims of his efforts to sell us debt, with having had the poor judgement to listen to the BS that the bankers have produced over the years. It's our fault, he says, that he and his colleagues have brought their institutions to the point of ruin, not his.

And Alex Salmond says the taxpayer - the Scottish taxpayer - should give people like him £100 million! I wouldn't give spivs like this the time of day!
6

Plodjfriss, Hammer of the Numpties,

Edinburgh 27/09/2008 00:30:58
I don't have a penny of debt and I've sat out of the housing market for the last five years because it's seemed clear that prices have borne no relation to true values. In return I've been sneered at for my financial naivety (often on these very pages) and I've been subjected to endless media reports about how these financial wizards have brought us all effortless prosperity and are richly deserving of massive bonuses year after year, often leaving them in a position where they can live out the rest of their lives in considerable luxury without ever having to do another stroke of work.

To be told by one of these people that I personally bear a share of responsibility for the current situation can only be described as galling. Pah!
7

Andrew BOD,

Aberdeen/shire 27/09/2008 00:32:22
£2,000,000-a-year Archie Kane blaming Jock Bloggs for the current financial crisis. That takes the biscuit.

So Archie, are you saying I should've only paid half of the asking price for the house I bought?

Or I shouldn't have taken an interest-free loan on my car, but asked for a high-interest loan.

Are you for real?

And yes. The Bank of Scotland is our bank. If we want to try to save it, we will.
8

Charles Linskaill,

Lost in Space 27/09/2008 00:40:37


Well! We all know when things go wrong, one looks for the,...

..'Scape-Goats'! as they say!

Now wheres my Carrots,? :)


DART! I left them in the Bank! :(
9

Charles Linskaill,

Lost in Space 27/09/2008 00:42:30



D'oh! says Eeyore!
10

,

27/09/2008 00:46:46
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11

Ocean11,

edinburgh 27/09/2008 00:48:58
Mr Kane is in denial denial. Banks are to blame. Period. Irresponsible lending. Irresponsible lending. Irresponsible lending.

The sooner the banks face this fact the sooner we'll get robust solutions for the future.

Oh yes, and a proper governance of international banking because they are unable to do it themselves.
12

Marky Bhoy,

Dunfermline 27/09/2008 00:56:13
To Be honest the blame here in the UK is 50-50 between the banks and consumers

The banks were offering loans on the increase in the equity of peoples houses whilst the property boom was at it's height

For example if you bought a place for £120,000 and after two years it increased to £150,000 people would borrow up to the £30,000 and blow that on a new car furniture you name it ABSOLOUTLEY CRAZY for the banks to offer it mad for people to take the offer STUPID .

Now they have negative equity and a car they might be able to sell at a loss on the second hand market if they are lucky

Initial Mortgages were still well regulated here however what nobody knew was that our banks were lending to the Americans to prop up their sub prime deals but now many mortgages in America have gone into default so have their banks with repaying loans to British banks so a domino principle occurs

The last thing the US government should do is bail the banks out let market forces take their natural course and in future governments will never base their nations economy on a property boom as has happened both here and in the States

Oh by the way vote SNP in Glenrothes It,s time
13

eDUCATIon,

27/09/2008 01:15:21
15

Thank f***!
14

,

27/09/2008 01:23:46
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15

eDUCATIon,

27/09/2008 01:24:34
and the horse you rode in on!
16

Jambo Dave,

Edinburgh 27/09/2008 01:42:05
What a joke this man is,how the hell can he say this?A real case of one of the fat cats rubbing our noses in it.Who the fluff do you think they are talking to?They created the problem by sending people like my 19 year old son packs of offers to have a credit card when he could not afford to buy a loaf of bread.
He was still at home thank god and he never saw them and they went in the bin along with the ones they sent me.
May they all rot in hell,the more I hear the more I think fluff them I hope the US bailout doesn't happen but we cant think that way because we all know that we are the ones who will have to pick up the tab.
Lets get the fat cats to the gallows ASAP.
17

,

27/09/2008 01:52:47
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18

truthsleuth,

27/09/2008 01:56:06
Not everyone is to blame and some take more of the blame than others.
Those who borrowed beyond their means
Those who let them borrow beyond their means
Those who were in Government who turned a blind eye or ecouraged those above.
Eventually someone has to pay for it all as they say
You don't get owt for nowt.
19

Charles Linskaill,

Edinburgh 27/09/2008 01:57:05


Jambo Dave! ~21,

Come-on, you 'MUST' of met people in your life, like this!

They NEVER Blame themselves for any 'WRONGS'!,...

It IS Always someone, or something, else to put the Blame on!
20

,

27/09/2008 01:57:53
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21

Charles Linskaill,

Edinburgh 27/09/2008 01:59:31

BTW! Also!, these types of People, will lie until they are,...

...'Blue-in-the-Face' and STILL WILL NOT take Blame!
22

KillieTommy,

Kilmarnock 27/09/2008 02:02:03
I have sat in the same house for 22 years and watched in disbelief as the value of property rose way above the level of inflation.
I bought my house for 50K and had to put down a deposit so that the mortgage I took out was only 2.5 times my annual salary. I took out an endowment mortgage based on the advise of my bank.
I watched in disbelief as the property market boomed, based on the banks lending larger sums of money with a lot less credit control.
I was then informed my endowment wouldn't be enough to pay off my mortgage.
Fortunately I was in a position to pay off my mortgage a few years ago and have diverted the money into savings.
What in Mr Kanes eyes did I do wrong and how confident can I be that my savings are in good hands with the current bunch of chancers in charge of our financial industries?
23

Charles Linskaill,

Lost in Space 27/09/2008 02:05:25


Daddy is going to read you all you people a lullaby!

Because it is late, and instead of trying to put the world to right, which you wont do on here, you should be in bed! :)
24

eDUCATIon,

27/09/2008 02:07:08
Hey Archie!!!!

Gonna give us a a "buy to let" mortgage????

Honestly saaaan.....I'll pay ye back......Sound investment doncha know.....its BOGOF!



25

,

27/09/2008 02:09:13
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26

,

27/09/2008 02:11:19
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27

,

27/09/2008 02:15:41
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28

SkeptikScot,

27/09/2008 03:14:43
I agree to a certain extent - there are many finger prints on this financial mess; regulators, banks, speculators and (yes) customers.

Probably v unpopular to say it but whatever happened to thrift, saving, doing without, "make and mend", borrowing from neighbours, waiting .... ? There was a time we could say these good solid Scottish qualities, but recently they seem to be getting scarce.
29

Mark Renton,

Edinburgh 27/09/2008 04:12:54
This thread's Greatest Hits:

What a banker.

Go away Archie, you tw*t

What a filthy, slimy creep this Archie Kane is

It makes me smile.

Are you for real?

What a To$$er.

Ha, ha, ha!

F**** YOU Archie Kane!!!

What a joke this man is.

I particularly enjoyed running up 2000 quid on my VISA card - on drink - and then not paying it.

Doesn't anybody posting on this thread believe?

Keep 'em coming, nobody is listing, but it is all good entertainment.

30

Dekester,

Canada's westcoast 27/09/2008 04:13:21
Thanks wee Berty. You are very entertaining.

Nothing changes..a few hundred years ago, folks spent fortunes, and invested in Tulip bulbs.

We bought Gold at around $200 dollars an ounce, and sold it a few years later for $650. Only to see it rise to near $900 and that was in the very early eighties. then back to around $350 for years.

Houses here that were say $120,000 back then. By 1983 or 84 you could have for $80,000.

The Canadian goverment was offering guaranteed savings bonds at around %20.

History ALWAYS repeats itself..(Except maybe the Tulip boom.lol.) As does the stupid actions of many in society.

All the best.
31

Keith Lagden,

27/09/2008 05:21:32
#35 right on the money, what a to$$er, stupid is what stupid does, They thought they were right, till it went wrong total DF's
32

donald,

glasgow 27/09/2008 05:59:14
It wisnae me.
33

Pilrig,

Livingston 27/09/2008 06:17:42
The Blame culture is to blame.

I'm overcome with guilt.
34

The Nightmare on Wall Street,

Cairo 27/09/2008 07:06:37
US$700 billion of State Aid to banks including UK banks would be illegal under EU Competition Law and would need to be repaid in the event that the EU Commission demanded such.

Banks who did not invest in the US sub prime market and who still believe in the market should be demanding the EU Commission take action


35

An Beal Bacht,

27/09/2008 07:06:43
"... "we are all guilty" of contributing to what he called the "error of cheap finance". "

Cheap wages are to blame - end of.

North America exported its best paying jobs to third world economies and convinced the yanks to maintain their lifestyles through debt. Cheap finance? I think not. If it was that cheap they wouldn't be defaulting.

I think though that this situation must have been anticipated. So what's the agenda?


36

Ananurhing,

27/09/2008 07:08:58
This is f'n precious!
" Well, You started it too"!

We're to blame for trying to keep a roof over our heads!
We're to blame for trying to add some quality to our miserable lives!
We're to blame for not realising that the banks are amoral scurrilous reptiles.
I don't have a mortgage, credit card, or any loans, and somehow I'm equally responsible for the economy going down the tubes.

The IMF warned the UK govt and banks years ago that this was going to happen, and they simply milked it while they could.
I take a small amount of solace from knowing that there's a special place reserved in hell for the likes of this parasite!
Even the people who work for banks, hate banks!
Parasitical scum!
37

An Beal Bacht,

27/09/2008 07:12:06
George Dubya - what a way to end eight years in office. Ya numptie.
38

An Beal Bacht,

27/09/2008 07:15:34
43 Rulesbutnotrulers,

Roll over and let me tickle your belly.
39

The Nightmare on Wall Street,

Alexandria 27/09/2008 07:17:12
Australian banks have, allegedly, far less exposure to the US sub-prime "market". Time to depart RBS and BOS and head to the Clydesdale?
40

williamx,

canada 27/09/2008 07:18:13
Don't worry. When the US Congress is finished with Bush's open cheque $700 billion plan there will be so many controls put on it, it won't work. This is an election year and none of the politicos want to be seen using US taxpayers money to bail out the fat cats. Pity you have the useless political system you have with History Majors and political science degree holders running your country. No wonder nothing changes.
41

The Nightmare on Wall Street,

Watching out from The Mound 27/09/2008 07:44:58

Mr Kane, the banks and the UK Govt are to blame.

How do you refloat an economy in deep recession in 1992 which has seen its manufacturing base heavily eroded?

You loosen out credit, and use aggressive marketing to encourage people to take out mortgages, car loans and buy holidays on credit cards at 36% per annum interest rates. This whips up demand for houses and retail consumption.

As house prices bubble up you then offer loans for consumption against increased house "equity".

No doubt the man in the Marionville Bar understands all of this and will willingly accept the blame.

Now that manufacturing has all but relocated to China, India and the Middle East and the retail/service sector bubble has burst what is the answer this time?

Can Mr Kane offer some prescience or more retrospective handwringing?

Everyone knows the markets were manipulated by short selling to bring down HBOS and offering Lloyds TSB a steal of a buy. The icing on the cake would be for the US Treasury to buy off the GBP17 billion of toxic investments (bad debts incurred through bad management decisions to all of us a until a few weeks)from Lloyds TSB.

What a joker!














42

Boy Wonder,

27/09/2008 07:51:56
In other words "Everybody except me!"

What a plonker!!!
43

Credit Hunch,

Darkest Fife 27/09/2008 07:56:48
Kane's comments simply illustrates what the bankers in this country think of the rest of us (their customers!)- I have 6 credit cards in my drawer (2 from his bank) with a possible £40,000 of available credit and I asked for NONE of them
Fortunately I also had the good sense not to use them !
44

Rev. S. Campbell,

Bath 27/09/2008 08:00:27
#43 "Grow up guys! Unless you are one of the very few of us who has no credit card, mortgage, loan, etc; and who has vigorously campaigned against vile banking practices then you, too, ARE guilty."

Some people have no choice but debt. Wages are lower than they've ever been in modern history relative to housing costs (both mortgage and rent), and everyone needs somewhere to live. Benefits for those unable to work or to find work have been falling behind inflation for over a decade. Some people are individually irresponsible, but ALL of us have been the victim of this government's Fantasy Economics policies.
45

W Smith,

Middle East 27/09/2008 08:06:37
1) Our MSPs spent the last 10 years trying to legislate on everything from sporrans to cutting-off dogs tails.

So this is how our "Scottish Government" keeps its finger on the pulse of national and international affairs then, eh?

2) Our "prudent" Chancellor Brown was so dazzled by the corporation tax contributions from the banks he wasn't the least bit interested in how they were making their profits.

He had ten years for goodness sakes to do or at least say something.

3) Our Gordon tried to replace 900,000 manufacturing jobs that were lost under his time as Chancellor with a huge tax bill for the additional 600,000 public sector jobs he created to cover up the unemployment figures.

The bank directors should take some blame but this Labour supporting newspaper may yet have to admit their beloved party screwed up big time!
46

wright,

London 27/09/2008 08:13:18
This man illustrates totally why we have the problems.He and others should be arrested for criminal offences and an example made of them in front of judges.We must then ensure they are not sent to comfortable open prisons.
47

Draco Was a Wimp,

Edinburgh 27/09/2008 08:15:12
If some lowlife came up to you and offered you some crack cocaine, would you take it? it's like all the smokers and alcoholics out there, no-one forced us to buy, buy, buy. Your cars, carpets, 3 piece suites, foreign holidays, flat screen TVs. Remember what you were probably told by your good Scots grannies ' IF YOU CAN'T AFFORD, YOU DON'T GET' If you all fell for the snake-oil-salesmen's spiel, hell mend you. Aye, Broon and the bankers were the pushers, but no-one forced you.
48

Draco Was a Wimp,

Edinburgh 27/09/2008 08:16:25
#54 Rules

Worryingly, we seem to be on the sme wavelength here!!
49

Jacqueline Hyde ,

On the shelf 27/09/2008 08:21:06
After the events of the last couple of weeks, it is clear that bankers are not in a position to tell anyone how to handle their finances.

It is absurd that the Scotsman should continue to give these grasping, greedy, self-interested, corrupt, naive and/or plain stupid people any credibility.

I wonder how much Mr Kane has allowed his grubby litle bank to over-extend itself in the Euro-market?
50

Ananurhing,

27/09/2008 08:33:47
A friend of mine who's business grew year on year, was a "valued" customer with his bank. He had a good solid business and his growth was actively encouraged by the very bank we're all lamenting now.
One day, the biscuits and coffee stopped during meetings with his bank manager. Shortly after his account was handed to the "we smell blood dept", everything went. Business, jobs, house, marriage, kids.
By the time they took him to court his debt had somehow QUADRUPLED!
Ten years later he's still trying to deal with the fallout from it.

Now the boots on the other foot and the banks find themselves in exactly the same position he was in, and Joe taxpayer is expected to bail them out? And still scumbags like Kane and the grocer boy at HBOS are paid bonuses greater than their salary?

My friend is now working in a PAYE job, having a huge chunk of his wages deducted every month, driving him further into debt. Presumably he's "equally to blame" for the credit crunch, and his taxes will be used to bail out the banks!
People like Kane and the grocer boy should be throwing themselves off the top floor of their HQ buildings!
51

Beergut,

Embra 27/09/2008 08:34:49
I blame the postman myself. He shouldn't have put all those credit card offers through my letterbox.
52

Tynietiger,

27/09/2008 08:47:03
I blame Brown and Darling as they failed to regulate financial institutions and stood idly by when they were offering 125% mortgages.

There is no Banking crisis in France or Norway just to give two examples where government rules safeguard the economy against spivs and speculators.
53

,

27/09/2008 08:51:56
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
54

Between the lines,

Scotland 27/09/2008 08:53:02
Archie Kane GET LOST! How dare you pull myself and others who live within their means into the blame game over this fiasco.

The plain truth is that you and other senior financial executives have presided over the biggest corporate shambles in the last 60 years - so much for the "clever" people in charge of our "rock solid" financial institutions - you guys are CLUELESS and have been exposed as the tenth-rate managers that you really are. Time to fall on your sword MATE!
55

Ananurhing,

27/09/2008 08:54:12
One day many years ago, I was walking down The Mound in Edinburgh, when I heard a car screaming down GeorgeIV bridge. The car went flying through the lights, made no attempt to make the bend, and went straight into the pillars at the front door of BOS. I watched it happen and was first on the scene. It was a deliberate act. The guy died instantly. I've always wondered what the poor wretched souls story was.

Presumably his family have struggled to rebuild their lives, repay his debts, and will now be expected to contribute to bailing out the banking industry. They'll be the people Kane regards as being "equally responsible". And the scum still pay themselves massive bonuses!
56

bluehead,

edinburgh 27/09/2008 09:08:43
yes!we, by small proportion and banker's by gigantic proportion,if they had not sent out letters to people
to take up some loan or such ,then people would not have got in to so much debt,
they real cause lies with the banks where greed overtook common sense.
57

Geoff,

sa 27/09/2008 09:19:38
9 Col Blimp 1V-Hi blimp! These greedy bakers!?! Charging us to much for our dough?
58

McMillar,

Fife 27/09/2008 09:20:00
Sounds like his Ratner moment...plonker.
59

,

27/09/2008 09:29:55
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
60

MikeyG,

Carlisle 27/09/2008 09:31:04
Let me get this straight...I pay a mortgage, which is okay so far, have a couple of hundred on my Visa to pay off, and that's it. I borrow what I can pay back...but this "trust me, I'm a banker" with his earnings believed to top £1.25 million a year, including a performance bonus of £715,000, tells ME and US we're to blame??!!! We can't affort 2 or 3 holidays, 2 or 3 houses, new cars etc etc and we're to blame 'cos he won't get a 6 figure bonus this year??!! I'll bet he manages it somehow and regardless...these are the guys running the worlds financial systems and they blame the common folk? I'm totally disgusted with him. My money's now in the matress.
61

W U Merchant,

Aberdeen 27/09/2008 09:32:57
Don't blame us, Mr Kane, blame "qualified economists" such as Alex Salmond. A disgrace to Scotland.
62

MikeyG,

Carlisle 27/09/2008 09:34:51
Having read all 67 comments posted so far, I thinks it's safe to say what the people think Mr Kane. PS; How big's your pension? You'll live happy and fat whenever you want to retire, me, I'l probably get carried out of work feet first 'cos I'll probably have to just keep working away to have a decnt life..and you're the sort of person we've to have taken advice from all these years lol! What was your opinion until last month, and can't say I say you on TV telling us how wrong it all was?!
63

MagsMc,

Perthshire 27/09/2008 09:40:03
I find it fascinating that nobody is asking why the auditors have given all these banks clean audit reports. Is it because International Accounting Standards produced Mickey Mouse Accounts and most of those who work in the accounting profession are so specialised (as with bankers) that they don't know the difference between a debit or a credit!!!

I bank with the Airdrie Savings Bank (last independent bank left in the UK) and have a real manager in a real branch.

I just wonder who is actually being protected here?
64

eDUCATIon,

27/09/2008 10:06:30
I watched this the other night. Its an hour long.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b00dyt7b

Made very interesting viewing, they even talk about CRIMINAL activities by bankers etc playing a large part in the mess. They all agreed that this was the case.

Anything to say Archie, about that????




65

Ben Cleuch,

LUTON 27/09/2008 10:07:00
If you use internet banking to pay credit card bills have you noticed that the default payment button is set to "Pay the minimum amount". A sleekit way of getting customers into debt and maximising the interest paid to the banks.
A proper caring customer-focused bank would set that default to "Pay full amount".
Also the continual requests to "Transfer all your debt to us.." blox - sums up where they are coming from.
I know banks are there to make a profit but do they really have to be so grasping, mealy-mouthed and obequious in the the way they do business?
66

Evan Owen,

Snowdonia 27/09/2008 10:09:51
Well Mr Banker the time will come when all your mistakes are sticking out like the bones of a carcass rotting in the heat of the mid day sun. Unfortunately the carcass is the framework of our society, our pensions, our savings, our taxes, our homes and our livelihoods. Where will you be when we are all jobless and homeless? Sunning yourself on a yacht funded by massive bonuses and even bigger pensions sucked from the marrow of the bones of the 'consumer'. Where was the FSA (nee SIB) while this was festering under its nose? taking expensive taxi rides, buying works of art, flying off to exotic places where regulators don't exist, all the time laying a path to a fancy job with a 'Zombie' parasite company. Come to think of it, wasn't James Crosby on the board of the FSA (nee SIB)? Wasn't he commissioned to produce a report on the mortgage market? Didn't he start all the bonus feeding frenzy? Gordon Brown should have a chat with these people as our representative, not their buddy.

Mr Banker, don't blame the ordinary person for your own greed and stupidity, you should invite the FSA to take look at your balance sheet, is it not full of assets which are overvalued? By perhaps 50%?

I asked Hector Sants if he wanted some important information, silence, does he not care? Or is he doing what John Tiner did with his big stick and 'unfair justice'?

The system is bust, should we let it fall over and then find out how rancid it is or do we throw more taxpayers money down the drain only to find out later that the black hole was far bigger than we were led to believe, as is the case with Northern Rock?

It makes ordinary people feel quite ill.
67

JCOUT,

Scotland 27/09/2008 10:22:55
I have worked in a Bank for over 20 years and it annoys me that you all think bankers are on high salaries and receive huge bonuses. I have a salary that is sufficient to put food on the table and a wee bit beside. I have never received a bonus such as the ones you see being banded around. I am a normal working guy who is now seriously worried as to whether I will have a job or not. Spare a thought for the normal bankers who were brought up the "banking" way and will now probably suffer deeply.
68

Ananurhing,

27/09/2008 10:34:58
#75 JCOUT

I don't think anyone holds people like you accountable for the current financial crisis or banking policies. We can all make the distinction between bank workers and bankers.

As I said earlier. Most people who work in the banking industry, hate banks!
69

A Crofter,

Western Isles 27/09/2008 10:38:04
So, Mr Kane is the chief executive of Scottish Widows. Unless I'm very much mistaken, this outfit was found guilty of gross pensions mis-selling some years ago.

Still, it's nice to know that Scotland's governing party consists largely of refugees from the financial sector - economists, bankers, beancounters, et al. I recently spotted our humourless, wire-rimmed Finance Minister cuddling a "highly-respected" banker enlisted (no doubt for a generous fee) to dream up Fat Eck's new take on PFI. They made a lovely couple, and I'm sure they'll be very happy together.
70

anakin,

anywhere west of the hootsmon 27/09/2008 10:43:22
I am trying to find today's editorial from the hootsmon. You know the one that should be saying

" Scotsman leads with a banker (sic) advising us all that we too are to blame".

I mean what kind of paper is this? It has no place in our Scottish society.

Now let me get back to my Herald where they would never interview some z list zillionaire (for that he truly is) and tell the bears through here that it was all their fault too.

You couldne make this up.

Keep it up Hootsy. Quality! pure quality!
71

subrosa,

27/09/2008 10:51:26
Here's a wee story about credit lending.

I have a friend who is a retired 'old fashioned' banker. I live in an area where, during summer, there is a massive influx of young Europeans who come to pick berries.

For a few years now I've noticed many of these young people paying for their purchases by credit card in the likes of Tesco and I mentioned this to my banker friend. What surprised me was that the credit cards were on British banks and I wanted to know how these youngsters could get a British credit card when they're only here for around 4 months.

He told me most banks give anyone a credit card as long as they can give a British address. The usual amount of credit that was offered was £2000. The credit card holder then runs up their card to the credit limit ensuring they pay the monthly minimum. Then they go back home leaving their card with £2000 on it and no way for that bank to get their money back ( lots of addresses in the european country are false).

In this area there must be around 2000 foreign summer workers. If only half of them have a British credit card then leave, owing £2000 each, who pays that? You and me that's who.

72

Courtney,

East Molesey 27/09/2008 10:54:22
Archie Kane must have been drunk when he sought to offload the credit crunch blame onto consumers. It is as clear as anything that it was bankers' greed and sheeplike mentality that brought about the collapse of the banking system. Consumers were drawn into the net by that greed. End of story.
73

Calum10,

27/09/2008 11:02:15
Archie Kane should either retract those words and apolgise or he should resign. Either way he has shown that is not fit and proper person to be a chief executive.
74

Chris Stephenson,

Fort Augustus 27/09/2008 11:05:27
Why is it that our pensions and ISA get hit in the bad days!
Is it because in the good days the bankers and so called fund managers just cream us off.
75

Boab,

Glasgow 27/09/2008 11:08:06
In a sense we're all to blame; but then, most of us aren't paid £1.25m to avoid our own companies collapsing, along with the world economy.

Luckily, we'll all be paying for the banks' incompetence with higher tax rises. It's only fair.
76

Jambo Dave,

Edinburgh 27/09/2008 11:29:05
75/Nobody is blaming bank staff for the trouble we are in.My daughter and son inlaw both work for RBS and are far from over paid.They get there yearly bonus which is peanuts and only tops up there pay.
Still is good to see you liked to call yourself a banker but now your just a worker,nobody thought you were a banker in the first place.
77

gggrumpy,

27/09/2008 11:43:26
Bankers lend you a brolly when the sun is shining and ask for it back when it starts raining.

If you every shake hands with Mr Kane remember to count your fingers afterwards.

As for my considerable deposits which are now in his bank, i will be taking my wheelbarrow round there on Monday morning.
78

Campaign Lawer,

Elgin 27/09/2008 11:55:59
OK Let's start the blame game and prosecutes the offenders. We now have sufficient video footage from every bank in the country, electronic records of all transactions in the stock market, a record of every fat cat’s salary in the banking profession, a record of the surveyors who exaggerated property values and the solicitor’s records of high payout divorces based on over inflated property prices.
The biggest casualties of this crisis – Our Nanny State Children who have had their financial security ripped from them
Any Chief Superintendent and Procurator Fiscal prepared to take on the case.
Gordon Brown. We are after you.
79

boudica,

Glasgow 27/09/2008 12:05:41
Yep ...I agree with Mr Kane he and the rest of the bankers caused this as did the irresponsible borrowers as some here have said they were more careful ..they were far more who werent ..who went for Houses that were over priced and far exceded their true valuation ..and are now suffering for their mistakes ..why anyone in their right mind went for all this is a mystery to me ...didnt they do their sums before taking on such debts ..I have heard that councils may buy these houses and rent them back to the owners ..this would begood an get the public owned property back up ...as long as they dont charge stupid money for renting such properties as the private firms that offer this service are doing and will they bring in regulation to stop these private firms from doing this ?
80

Pilrig,

Livingston 27/09/2008 12:28:49
" No one is innocent"

- the Sex Pistols.
81

weh,

27/09/2008 13:00:10
I know banks are there to make a profit but do they really have to be so grasping, mealy-mouthed and obequious in the the way they do business?

Problem is,Ben, that Mr bean has actively encouraged the banks to be irresponsible.

Further, they always know that, in the last resort, Bean would make the taxpayer pay the bills!
82

Cuthulan,

approx.12,000 miles from Earth's core 27/09/2008 13:02:31
The root cause of this situation is unregulated greed and incompitance in the financial sector.Yes you can say people where stupid to get themselves into debt but the bankers are the trained professionals with the Risk Assessment and Asset Management software. I know I work in the R&D depatment of the company that designs the software and we all saw this coming.The bankers where incompitant lending out the money to these people , but that was just pure greed.
This is history repeating in America.In 1913 the Federal Reserve was created
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federal_Reserve_Act_of_1913
20 years of unregulated Fractional Reserve banking practices ,where for every $100 deposited ,$400 would be lent out , basically creating money out of thin air by creating debt, which they call money, and charging for services and interest. Artificially raising prices as more people can bid for the items.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fractional_Reserve_Banking
20 years later in 1933 the Great Depression was in full swing
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Depression
and a Fascist coup in the USA backed by Wall Street financiers including J.P. Morgan & Co., the Du Pont interests, Remington Arms and involving Prescott Bush (The 2007 BBC radio documentary The White House Coup said that Prescott Bush, father of former President of the United States George H. W. Bush and the grandfather of President George W. Bush, was connected with the plot
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Business_Plot
Roosevelt apparently dropped the Treason charges so long as Wall Street did not resist his New Deal and reform of business and financial practices
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_new_deal
Move forward in time , its the 1980's and Reaganomics and Thatcherism is in full swing , deregulating the financial services again , and suprise suprise 20 years later we face financial ruin and move towrds fascism from exactly the same people behind the last attempted fascist coup in the USA.
Credit Crisi
83

Cuthulan,

approx.12,000 miles from Earth's core 27/09/2008 13:03:42
cont./
Move forward in time , its the 1980's and Reaganomics and Thatcherism is in full swing , deregulating the financial services again , and suprise suprise 20 years later we face financial ruin and move towrds fascism from exactly the same people behind the last attempted fascist coup in the USA.
Credit Crisis breeding Fascism for the "Public Good"
http://www.marketoracle.co.uk/Article6412.html
Fascist Business system breeds corruption and recievership
http://www.marketoracle.co.uk/Article6447.html

Fascism should more appropriately be called corporatism because it is the merger of state and corporate power.
Benito Mussolini, fascist dictator of Italy (1922-1943)

We survived the last financial meltdown we will survive this one, hopefully without a world war. Banks need regulation or else greed takes over them its simple
84

Rickie,

27/09/2008 13:28:50
"Archie Kane, one of the key architects of the HBOS rescue deal with Lloyds TSB"

Re worded - I'm okay as I have a huge salary, your all scum and on top of that I made it possible to screw you all over! Sod you, as I couldn't give a fig, neither could my mates (only called so till my ass is on the line).
85

Andra, Dundee,

27/09/2008 13:37:38
Mr Kane is more right than wrong - of course we are not all to blame - but too many posters above are in denial. In my view if you take a loan than you can't afford to repay it's like stealing from an unlocked house and claiming it's not theft.
Anybody who gets themselves into too much debt has mostly themselves to blame.
It's the greed of the general population that I blame - everybody who wants a bigger house, flasher car, flash clothes, etc.
People don't blame tesco if you buy too much milk and some goes off, so why blame banks for loans they should not buy.
We have been brainwashed by Old Labour and now by the SNP that our nanny state looks after everything for us. We all need a taste of reality - we need to be more responsible for our own actions.
86

Andra, Dundee,

27/09/2008 13:39:06
#93 Rickie,
You're a numpty - always looking to blame somebody else for your own stupidity.
87

Cuthulan,

approx.12,000 miles from Eath's core 27/09/2008 13:47:21
Suggested listening music while reading this article......

(sung to the Monkees theme)
Hey Hey we're the bankers
we just like banking around
we too busy banking
to check its finacially sound

Or theme for Brown's economic stratagy

"I'm forever blowing bubbles"

I'm off to enjoy the weekend, I hope you all have a nice day and remeber we will survive this ,let's just hope we all learn from this as well.
88

Nae Slayer,

27/09/2008 13:53:07
Whilst I don't relish the fact that there will be a great deal of suffering during the next few years I do look forward to people finally waking up from the dreamland they've been living in. Hopefully, heads will be removed from the clouds and no longer buried in the sand.

As people come crashing down to earth I hope to see a torrent of activism sweeping the country as we use the means at our disposal to wrest control of our lives from greedy money men and self interested politicians.

We have the technology to enable everyone to have a say on everything, from a local level right up to the National level. In our homes we have an unlimited amount of information at our disposal and can effect change at the click of a button.

Why should we be content to elect a bunch of numpties every four years to make decisions on our behalf?
89

Andra, Dundee,

27/09/2008 13:58:58
#98 Nae Slayer
The "greedy money men" are only in control of the lives of the greedy people in society. If you have no debt and live modestly then the greedy money men are of little consequence.
If there were no greedy people in society we would not be in this mess.
90

Darien,

Panama 27/09/2008 13:59:38
Its not very long ago we were criticising banks for all their extra charges and for making such high profits, which in turn rewarded those awfully nice shareholders we are now asked to protect. Better to let them all go bust in my view. Why should Tommy the Taxpayer bail them out. Let them go bust. New banks will eventually start up, maybe even state-owned banks. This is all a question of supply and demand - too much supply (of cheap money), followed by market collapse, followed by corporate casualties and then a new arrangement will occur. Rather than bailing out bust banks, the state might be better starting its own bank, or even buying up the bust banks for a song, just like Mr. Kane and his Lloyds-TSB mates are doing with HBOS.
91

Andra, Dundee,

27/09/2008 14:18:08
#100 Darien,
I've seen it quoted a few times that the Government will rescue failed banks. It should be noted that when the banks are rescued it is not for the benefit of shareholders - since as with Northern Rock, the shareholders loose their entire investment. The "rescue" is for the benefit of customer and the economy since without banks the economy cannot operate. However the government will probably then run these companies down and maybe sell off the best bits at a profit.
92

Finnzz,

Offshore 27/09/2008 14:21:01
I blame most of this on the demise of the village branch. When I worked as a bank clerk, any customer who spent beyond their means was hauled over the coals by the local bank manager (who knew his customers) and given a bollocking.
Now I can't even speak to my branch without going through a central call centre where some bank employee (who wouldn't know a Transit Item from a toothbrush) decides my requirements and even tries to sell me a personal loan while I'm on hold.
As for that snotty faced kid in charge at HBOS, or this Archie Kane. They wouldn't even have been sent out for the cream buns at my old branch.

93

SeriouslyAmused,

Balloch 27/09/2008 14:27:35
Speak for yourself Rules. I have not contributed at all to this mess. I have no debts, no mortgage, no credit card. And through choice too.

A close friend of mine a couple of years ago said I was 'useless' to the economy because I did not go in for credit. Well, maybe I was -but I'd rather be useless to the economy than complicit in its downfall.
94

Confused,

edinburgh 27/09/2008 14:34:27
What a flaming cheek! To blame the consumer who can only react to what is being offered is disgusting. This is indicative of what led us into this mess. He is still in denial that the banking world is corrupt and not fit for purpose. His fine salary does not prove he has the ability to deal with reality. The bankers used the hard earned money of the work force and sold us short, all the while telling us how wonderful they were. The only thing the consumer did wrong was believe that they were honest. Sort out the mess and then come back to us and try to rebuild our trust in you to tell the truth and to look after the interests of your customers.
95

weh,

27/09/2008 14:35:20
Sun now anti-labour-official:-


http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/columnists/clarkson/article1
96

Hugo of Garven,

27/09/2008 14:49:45
If Archie Kane said we are all to blame then I want an appology from him.

I did not buy my house until I could pay cash. My credit card is cleared each month.

How dare he link me with gamblers who overstretched themselves buying a house or with incompetent, cheating bankers who were more concerned with meeting targets and getting bonuses than with being the professionals they claimed to be.

97

hasitever occurred to you that you might be wrong?,

never never land 27/09/2008 15:07:01
my income was middle of the road, felt I was payijng significantly more as a percentage of my income than my grandparents would for the roof over my head, but then i'd own it. but the amount of credit that was being offered me was beyond belief, we're a' f'd.
and ps. that guy's a ti..... not allowed to say t i t ffs
98

GalacticCannibal,

Murrieta CA: for more WAR VOTE McCain 27/09/2008 15:35:49
The crime: Beating partner to death with dog chain in five-hour attack. The jail term: Six years. The reaction: Disbelief
-------------------------------------------

This is an example of white Scottish trailer trash gone mad.

The killer of the girl should be hanged (using a short drop for more suffering).

The Judge should be given a 10 year sentence of hard labor.

It would not bring the 21 year old woman back , but neither will the puny sentence of 6 years.

I know mu post has nothing to do with the headline of this thread.
But I abhor unfairness , hypocrisy and greed as was shown in this tragic story.

GC
99

Mistyriver,

Scotland 27/09/2008 15:38:24
I have just been "exclusively selected" to apply for a loan of £10,000 by Alliance and Leicester!!!!! Two letters this week alone!!! What's that all about. I am a single parent, with two children, working part-time in a low paid job!!! Have any other people received this kinda offer at a time when there is no money available? I have no debts and a great deal on my mortgage and utilities but some numpty out there is trying to get me into debt.
100

Tobytoo,

Southington, U.S.A. 27/09/2008 15:45:13
#25 WeeBerty
If there is any truth to your comment @ #22 then your last sentence in your #25 comment truly refers to yourself.
101

just-whatever-eh,

DR/F1/MO2 27/09/2008 16:01:21
Archie Kane makes a good point in there somewhere but should be aware that if it wasnt for this "cheap finance" he wouldn't be getting a performance bonus as high as £715k.

Also, in case he doesn't know, not everyone is on £1.2m a year. Therefore when a decent two-bed flat in Edinburgh costs approx £130k & your salary is approx £14k (like a typical Scottish Widows call consultant's is), you're going to need to take out a loan & a cheap one if possible.

Furthermore, it's good to see that he is marking a path to be involved more in HBOS & Lloyds parts of the group rather than the Scottish Widows part. He's clearly preparing to jump ship for when the merger fully takes place & Widows is shipped off to some other company.

Wasn't that long ago an internal email went round talking about the speculation that Widows was being sold to Allianz.
102

Citylocal Fife,

Fife News 27/09/2008 16:06:05
I don't know for definite where this guys head is, but I have a suspicion he may be constipated. The banks made some pretty awful lending decisions. *They* should pay for the consequencies, and the guys presiding over the mess should be personally responsible.
103

Stirling Sentinel,

Stirling 27/09/2008 16:22:59
The lower echelons of society rally need more guidance on debt management and control in the face of rapacious sales techniques employed by the Banking industry. A beefed up role for Citizens advice Bureau and other organisations is highly desirable, but sadly probably too late now to stop the rot.
104

vimto,

27/09/2008 16:28:36
110. Well said!
105

Liberal for life,

Dunblane 27/09/2008 17:06:27
It's known as "passing the buck" and does nothing for Archie Kane's reputation. Sheer greed from the finanacial sector is to blame. There was once a time when Building Societies provided the mortagages based on a sound platform with deposits required, insurance companies provided insurance policies, and the banks were where you put your hard earned savings. Now the banks are centres of everything and sell their products hard - they are always offering even more and more credit.

The sooner the financial sector is brought to heel and controlled with "social responsibility" being the core requirement the better for us all.
106

Wee Fifer,

Edinburgh 27/09/2008 17:53:22
This is an opportunity that the left and the centre left should take advantage of to kick the boot into the free market myth, with all their mystic metaphors about 'turbulence in the markets' and 'toxic assets' and all of that guff that they use to hide how the system works. Only now that there is a crisis and they need the the public to approve massive bailouts so that they have some legitimacy (i.e. the fear of Congress of the public now) do we learn what these so called masters of the universe have been up to and how basically immoral it all is.
There is no such thing as a free market, this 'free market' was set up with rules and was skewed towards the rich.
Never heard of Archie Kane, but now that they are panicking, there will be no shortage of apologists.
107

Rami,

Derry New Hampshire 27/09/2008 19:03:55
I would just also like to say that I won't even take
a little part of the blame for World Economics Failure!
I am 65 + on fixed income; had nothing to do especially
with United States money blunders........
108

zigzag,

canada 27/09/2008 19:54:13
Hey Citizen Kane, I have a Bridge in Brooklyn and some swamp land in the Florida Everglades that you might have a buyer for at really low interest rates.

Really I do
109

Darien,

Panama 27/09/2008 20:42:17
#101 Andra: I still don't see the problem of leaving bust banks to the administrators, like any other bust business. They will sell on the assets (or good debt) and write off the rest. Why does the taxpayer have to buy these bust banks?
110

Conan the Librarian™,

27/09/2008 20:54:59
110
It is not often I agree with you.

Somebody who whips a person to death.

And gets six years...
111

gggrumpy,

27/09/2008 23:16:17
Robert Maxwell and his sons screwed some pensioners and look what happened to them.

Mr Kane and the rest of the greedy bankers have screwed every pension in the UK and they get bonuses.

Surely something not quite right here?
112

Valdemar,

Buenos Aires 27/09/2008 23:30:10
Nothing comes from nothing. Everything and anything comes from something. If banks continue to be bailed out or if $700 billion is used in the US, everyone will pay for it via inflation. That is what bankers and the politicians that support them are after although nobody says so, that is NO ONE. Inflation is a tax on everyone that holds cash or currency denominated accounts in banks or wherever. Yes, if banks dont go under that may facilitate the lives of their employees and managers and shareholders. They needless to say are a minority in a democratic society. Why should OAP's or people that have saved all their lives be stolen of their money by inflating their currencies I ask? Why should the just pay for the sinners I ask? Why should pensioners and pensions that have a value in sterling or dollars be eroded relentlessly by the government printing machines? That is exactly what will happen in the US when they allow $700 billion and perhaps much more to enter into circulation. Oil will inmediately return to $140/150/180 the barrel. You bet it will. Food -which is highly correlated with oil prices- will go up in price, basic metals will, etc. Unemployment will become endemic. Businesses will close down. Emigration from the western Anglo/American axis will begin to simpler countries where the population is not caught in a web of debt and lies. It will all happen..the question is how will it be less painful to the general population. In my view it will be by not creating massive inflation , a strategy which the bankers are all too happy with, I can assure you. It is their cuppa and they know how to prepare it!
113

Pilrig,

Livingston 27/09/2008 23:36:35
94 - spot on, Andra - we need to be more responsible for oor own actions. And I hereby absolve myself of any blame for the situation mentioned by the twit Kane.
114

Pilrig,

Livingston 27/09/2008 23:37:38
98 - Vive le Revolution !
115

Pilrig,

Livingston 27/09/2008 23:40:27
"Neither a borrower nor a lender be"

William Shakespeare - "Hamlet"
116

Pilrig,

Livingston 27/09/2008 23:44:48
110 GC - murder has been abolished over here, dude, replaced by 'culpable homicide' a concept which exists solely to releive pressure on our overcrowded prisons.
Justice doesn't come into it.
117

Pilrig,

Livingston 27/09/2008 23:47:27
123 G. Broon has screwed a lot of pensioners and look what's happening to him !
118

seattlebarbie,

here not there 28/09/2008 00:21:59
Sorry Mr. Banker - you and your lot are the problem but you think we are the solution. Good creditors are to pay the piper? Think again. Calls to US congress people are running 300 per day AGAINST this bailout.
119

SkeptikScot,

28/09/2008 00:40:33
Ah yes, pilrig. A fine quote. Worth adding the next bit:

"Neither a borrower nor a lender be;
For loan oft loses both itself and friend,
And borrowing dulls the edge of husbandry."

[Hamlet]

120

Cuthulan,

approx.12,000 miles from Earth's core 28/09/2008 00:56:04
Who to blame for America's financial crisis?
http://www.marketoracle.co.uk/Article6450.html
The traditional checks and balances of America's financial system have been deliberately bypassed. The Real Estate industry has encouraged the production of very high risk mortgage applications. Most of the Banking system has ignored its responsibility to monitor the credit worthiness of mortgage applicants. And these worthless debt instruments were then passed on to Wall Street which sliced and diced them into $$ billions of highly questionable securities called Collateralized Debt Obligations, Mortgage Backed Securities, credit default swaps, or whatever other name Wall Street's MBAs could dream up. And of course, everyone dipped their hands into the cookie jar along the way. Millions and billions of dollars. Get rich selling worthless paper.
Fraud and misrepresentation? Criminal conduct? Gonad driven hubris? Mindless greed? Or just outright stupidity?
OR
Archie Kane's answer"Look what YOU made me do,this is your fault!!"

OR maybe poor Archie does not understand capitalist free market economics?
1.Availability of credit allows money to flow between savers and borrowers.
2.Resources and funds are allocated to various projects or investments during a boom phase.
3.Eventually borrowing becomes excessive and leads to malinvestment,
4.At this stage, adherence to free market theory would allow for an efficient cleansing period and a healthy recovery period. How? Irresponsible and unprofitable businesses fail. Bad debts get liquidated. Excess resources go on sale, flow into more stable ventures and pool together with more profitable resources controlled by healthy corporations or entities
http://www.marketoracle.co.uk/Article6497.html

Your classic Boom and Bust economy and it looks like we found irresponsible and unprofitable businesses.i.e. the banks.
121

Mary Bell,

28/09/2008 04:31:01
The one-world bank-coup is right on scheduel; replete with the old Zionist trick 'Always Blame the Victim(s)'.
122

JT,

28/09/2008 10:14:19
So we are as much to blame, as the bankers?? So the fact that I received three offers of credit and loans in one day adding up to some £40 grand has nothing to do with it. I wanted to move my credit card balance to a 0% one but was turned down earlier this year, despite having very little debt. Arent the banks supposed to be have socially responsible lending - if so perhaps we wouldnt be in such as mess. As for Mr Kane he should go and repeat this in person to those at HBOS and HSBC who are going to lose their jobs at their own fault! See how long he lasts. What a twonk!
123

Calgacas,

28/09/2008 10:47:49
108 Hugo of Garven

Like yourself, and many other people, I own my own home , never had a mortgage, been in business for 45yrs, and never been in the red on my bank account, or ever owed money to anyone.
I have been telling my bank for years that this borrowing culture was going to come to a sorry end one of these days, that day has come.

I hope they are proud of themselves.

As for Kane, should we sue him for slander?

If we could have him fined £1.25million, we could surely find a deserving charity.
124

eDUCATIon,

28/09/2008 12:00:42
132

Spot on!
125

Duncan Clark,

Edinburgh 28/09/2008 16:23:28
This is a sad example of special pleading - or in Scots, as he is, "It's no me". Archie Kane is simply silly in putting forward this thesis, and if he has any sense he knows it. He surely has some sense, but is very foolishly and under-rating his audience here. In doing so, he is making things worse for his constituents.

Of course it would not have have happened without personal greed by "small" people as Leona Hemsley and other very rich people have described them. But the bankers knowingly took advantage of the sheer ignorance of the generality, while making sure that their own greed came near to be satisfied.
I write as someone who not just ran a bank, but someone who started one from scratch- and after over 30 years of operation. It is not one of those whose very existence is in danger. It was, from the start, operated by me, and still is, on the fundamental banking principles of lending long only when you can borrow long.It has no problems at all except that the world of banking has been deeply upset by greedy - ignorant? - fools who did not listen.

Any banker who did not operate largely on that basis was either greedy or ignorant. Everyone who had the remotest idea about banking knew that. Unfortunately few do, and the politicians had their own agenda.

When one looks at what the so and so's paid themselves (and anyone who has been inside the system knows how it works) -its all about making sure that the others are paid less, an easy downhill snowball system. Top pay has increased in the UK and the US about 10 or 20 fold for that reason - no intrinsic increase in thier value to anyone except themselves - over the last 30 years. Why? Why?

We know that they have ratcheted up their pay on the backs of a nonsensical and deeply dishonest system. And the top executives are supported by their colleagues who are too often very, very ordinary people, who have climbed up the corporate ladder but who are needed as board votes to support the pay of the top
126

Dr Mike,

Edinburgh 28/09/2008 16:51:43
Mr Archie Kane should change his name by deed poll to Mr Richard Head.
127

UK Fred,

Kirkintilloch 28/09/2008 17:36:16
I remember hearinbg Donald Turner, former chief economist for HSBC describing the debt overhang on the UK market as long ago as 2004 as being "Clownism" (from CLarke and brOWN) and saying that is things did not change we would all end up "Broke" (gordon BROwn and kenneth clarKE).

He as mentioned that the government had fiddled (sorry adjusted) the inflation figures, to take housing out of the index by tasking the Bank of England to target inflation based on the CPI and not the RPI.

The problem is that there are too many small people involved this time. After all some things don't change. If you lose your income and owe the bank £100,000 then you have a problem, but if you owe them £1,000,000,000 then the bank has a problem (remember Robert Maxwell).

Duncan Clark (posting 137) is right to say that Mr. Kane underestimated his audience. He has probably forgotten that most of us over the age of 30 can still count.

128

Dissector,

Stirling 28/09/2008 19:29:21
I think Mr Kane should go and lie down in a darkened room and start taking pills that stop him looking in any mirror.
what a load of rubbish - always remember the golden rule "he who has the gold makes the rules"
129

Seymour,

London 28/09/2008 20:19:03
The only thing we are guilty of is not stringing these corrupt gangsters up from the lampposts. It's like saying we are all guilty for the invasion of Iraq, despite the fact that 2 million of us marched against the the illegal attack but nonetheless allowed Blair to have his murderous war. Sure, we are all guilty, for being law-abiding citizens when we should have taken over Downing Street and removed the war criminals by force.
130

Eel Larvae,

Toronto 29/09/2008 00:59:13
I only hope that the bit about a camel and and an eye of a needle is true for these types appear to be immune to all sense of decency and have absolutely no qualms about increasing their personal gain at everyone elses loss. Robber barons abound!
131

Prudence,

Scotland 29/09/2008 15:59:35
So we are all guilty then. I wonder which category Mr Kane falls into " Unto them that hath shall be given " or "unto them that hath not, shall be taken away , verily even unto that which they hath" ?
132

Realist?,

Edinburgh 29/09/2008 18:08:58
More sensationalist Scotsman tripe passed as journalism. A whole article taken from one sentence?

Nevermind the fact that it actually is just as much our fault- we all took on too much debt, but it wasn't offered by LTSB which is why they are in a position to save HBOS.

If it was Mr Kane's intention to "blame us all" I'm sure we'd have heard more than a couple of lines in a nationalist propaganda rag like this.

So weak
133

uridevliegh,

Roslin 20/10/2008 21:43:30
I enjoy the readers comments on all Scotsman articles. Informed personal comments provide an opportunity to take an article further. The Linskaill Brigade, however, seems to have a view on every article and is spoiling this opportunity for the majority of readers. Could nothing be done to ban or at least limit their input?

 

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