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Ailing Fidel Castrol stands down as Cuba's leader

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Published Date: 19 February 2008
FIDEL Castro today resigned as President of Cuba after nearly a half-century, saying he would not accept a new term when the newly elected parliament meets on Sunday.
"I will not aspire nor accept – I repeat I will not aspire or accept, the post of President of the Council of State and Commander in Chief,"
read a letter signed by Castro published quietly overnight without advance warning in the online edition of the Communist Party daily Granma.

The new National Assembly is meeting for first time on Sunday since January elections to pick the governing Council of State, including the presidency Castro holds.

There had been wide speculation about whether he would accept a nomination for re-election to that post or retire.

The 81-year-old Castro's overnight announcement effectively ends his rule of almost 50 years over Cuba, positioning his 76-year-old brother Raul for permanent succession to the presidency.

Page 1 of 1

  • Last Updated: 19 February 2008 10:54 AM
  • Source: The Scotsman
  • Location: Edinburgh
  • Related Topics: Cuba
 
1

Jmhzx,

brighton 19/02/2008 11:04:33
The Batista regime was corrupt, cruel, murderous and vile. Castro was a liberator who freed the people from Batista and gave them dignity, bread and a voice.

Then he became corrupt, cruel, murderous and vile. Because the USA wouldn't help him he turned to the USSR and became a vicious communist puppet.

Let's hope the Cuban people are finally granted true democracy soon.
2

big big fun,

19/02/2008 11:28:13
VIVA FIDEL
3

Yane,

19/02/2008 11:34:37
#2 ...and his beard.
4

,

19/02/2008 12:05:54
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5

sweet76,

Coventry 19/02/2008 12:33:17
No doubt if he dies then Ken Livingston will crying all over the casket.
6

Yane,

19/02/2008 12:35:33
Hey Guys - you've called him "Castrol".
7

Arfur,

19/02/2008 12:37:42
What are some of you talking about.

He liberated the cuban people from the Batista regime.

Under his leadership Cuba has created the best health service in the world, one of the best education services in the world, become one of the best holiday destinations in the world and they also provides the third world with the most medical suport and equipment in the world (bet you didn't know that).

After 9/11 when some firefighters recieved no medical treatment by the USA Cuba gave them some (free), only for the US to fine them for going to Cuba.

So he struck up a alliance with Russia...is that any worse than us and the USA? Nope.
8

Tris,

Dundee 19/02/2008 12:51:55
Fidel CastroL

Are you looking for proof readers... I can do that, Geez a joab!

A propos de Castro.... There was good and bad about the man, as suggested in the posts above. It's important not to be taken in by either the American propaganda about him, or by some notion that he was some sort of perfect saviour.

Both are a bit true, and both a bit lies.

9

Calum Crubag,

19/02/2008 12:54:54
Viva Castro! Not perfect but a vast improvment for his people that another Yank-backed fascist dictator.

The Cubans had one of the best education and health sytems in the world until the US enforced sanctions on this tiny island. Perhaps now they'll get their 'freedom' - advertising from birth to death telling them how to think, obesity, US crime rates, gun crime, rigged 'free' elections...

Lets hope they look to other Latin states for their future and not the US.
10

,

19/02/2008 12:55:41
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11

Calum Crubag,

19/02/2008 12:57:03
#8 - good points. Certainly compared to some of the right-wing nutters the CIA has supported in the past decades who murdered 100s of thousands of their own people, Castro is a saint. I wonder how he and Cuba would have turned out with more support from the West in the face of US threats and aggression.
12

Busymale,

19/02/2008 13:11:58
I guess if I lived under the fascists I too would have supported Castro. But when he came to power he just suppressed the same people.

Systems who think they are always right and others wrong have little practical difference between them. At 152 years of age Castro should have gone long ago. How could he possibly still have the "fire in the belly" he had in his youth?
13

Sedov,

Scotland 19/02/2008 13:12:54
Fidel Castro is an example to all that the a tiny country which had nothing could stand up to the might bullies of the USA. Unfortunately, the Stalinists, before the break up of the soviet union, served to keep Cuba isolated and a mirror of their own deformed workers state in which burocratic centralism was the order of the day. Cuba was never allowed to develop its potential, Stalin and US imperialism made sure of that. Self determination must be allied to internationalism otherwise it is doomed to failure as Russia was and Cuba is now on the road to being. This is a lesson to those sectarians on the left in Scotland who believe that nationalism can bring about socialism on its own -it cannot. Still, Castro is a great man, who could have led his people to real democracy and freedom -if only.....
14

Lochinvar,

Edinburgh 19/02/2008 13:34:33
Christ! If Bush see's it "Castrol" He'll invade. Any country that has anything to do with oil (even a typo) isn't safe from the US
15

Fanling,

China 19/02/2008 13:46:43
Coincidence and suprise to me. My sister and her husband arrived on that island today. I hope dozy bro-in-law isn't thinking about taking over or Cuba is really doomed.
16

yockel,

19/02/2008 14:07:34
Suppose Havana will get a McDonalds now.
17

mike - across the pond,

arfur.... and moore's tripe... 19/02/2008 14:35:36
here in america where we have "substandard" health care.... (btw, that "substandard healthcare" is the envy of 99% of the rest of the world... but go on...)... we also espouse "critical thinking"... lets just look at those 9/11 firefighters for a moment...

when that fat lump of goo michael moore was done with those guys, what did he do??? like all true liberazzi, once done with them, he kicked them to the curb...

so that fat lump of goo took those guys to cuba to get "treated"... what did they have? did they get a "cure"... or was it like most latin american medical treatments... (think "snake oil")...

lets think about those "hospitals" that fat lump of goo took them to... would those be the hospitals that cuban firefighters get to go to (no they were not)... or the hospitals that only castro and his buddies get to use... oh and a few select invitees of mr castro...

moore is an idiot... they should have pulled his passport... and made him get on a slow boat for somewhere (anywhere) else... sans a US passport...
18

GalacticCannibal,

Murrieta, CA........captured from Mexico 1845 19/02/2008 15:06:09
Castro was a real fighter, whether U agree with his ideology or not.
Compared to Pres Bush , Castro was a giant on the world stage.

One of our Allies is the sick corrupt Saudi Arabians society. But Dudes they sit on a pool of oil.

Castro had only sugar cane.

Its all about money Dudes.

GC
19

,

19/02/2008 15:55:07
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20

yockel,

19/02/2008 15:55:16
#17 American health care the envy of 99% of the rest of the world? Maybe to 99% of the Americans who can't afford it but certainly not anyone else in the world matey, not even the Brits with their disfunctional, target driven, collapsing NHS.
OK Moore is an idiot, so? The real lumps of lard are sitting whinging in Florida planning their return to Cuba.
Viva Castro, good luck Cuba and here's hoping American imperialist scheming and corporate pilfering will not destroy you.
21

Media 1,

cape town 19/02/2008 15:57:05
Galactic is absolutely spot on.
Fidel Castro is the sort of leader that the west ABSOLUTELY LOVES if they are sitting on billions of dollars of oil, gold, diamonds, uranium or platinum.

We all know that Cuba would be another Iraq if it had oil. Cuba may not be ideal under Fidel Castro rule, but he is no Mugabe. Cubans may be poor, but they are not starving to death like most African's. They have some sense of pride, some sense of responsibility, which is more than can be said for Africa's lot.
I would sooner reside in a Castro run nation than a Mugabe run nation. Mind you, I may even chose Castro over Bush.
22

Arfur,

19/02/2008 16:58:09
#17 mike - across the pond - american healthcare is the envy of 99% of the rest of the world, are you having a cuffing laugh? it is a complete disgrace. Third world countries have a better health care system than the US.
23

Jmhzx,

brighton 19/02/2008 16:58:49
Arfur No.7

Castro may have given them health care and education but he also gave them work-camps, prisons, torture, murder, disapearances, terror and a privileged elite class.

He lived in palaces while his people lived in huts. He tortured and murdered gays, poets, journalists, critics, political foes and his own party rivals.

Read some of the works of Reinaldo Arenas and tell me how wonderful Castro is.

He is a bully, a butcher and a coward. Liberating your people 50 years ago doesn't give anyone the right to torture, maim and terrorize them.
24

Jmhzx,

brighton 19/02/2008 17:00:57
media 21

Mugabe and castro have much more in common than you think. They are both dictators. They are both responsible for the brutal suppression of their people and they both have some cult status amongst certain political groups.
25

Arfur,

19/02/2008 17:01:08
#17 mike - across the pond - i have just read the rest of your comment and it is the biggest load of nonsence i have ever read (apart from saying Moore is an idiot).

Cuban health care is free to absolutly everyone on the island.
26

Jmhzx,

brighton 19/02/2008 17:05:06
Yes Arfus but, people with HIV/Aids are locked up in 'health camps' rather than treated with compassion and dignity. just because it's free doesn't make it good.
27

Jmhzx,

brighton 19/02/2008 17:10:39
American health care is absolutely fantastic.

Unless you are one of the 50 odd million who can't afford it. Those people are simply left to suffer and die unless they can get a sympathetic doctor/church/medicaid grant to help them.

It's truly appalling and it sure ain't the envy of anywhere
28

Sam,

Edinburgh 19/02/2008 17:19:25
As a life long monarchist I support Castro. He brought feudalism to Cuba and demonstrated that it can be made to work. Now he abdicates in his dotage and passes the crown to his brother. Does Raul have sons? Is the line of succession intact? The common folk of Cuba need to know.
29

Jmhzx,

brighton 19/02/2008 17:26:43
Lol @ Sam. Good one.
30

indune1,

Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar 19/02/2008 17:54:18

GTF!

Best healthcare in the world? Don't think so.

A democracy. Ah, that again would be a no.

A dictatorship. Hmmm. Not unless you have to get up and take a whizz during one of his 3hr-long speeches.

Don't talk politics with the locals. They live in fear that "gringos" will shop them to the police.

Human rights? No problem. Keep your mouth shut and you continue to exist.

This meglo-maniac almost caused armegeddon.

Even that die-hard (and he did) Marxist, Che Guevara lost faith in him as he watched Fidel become a dictator.

31

57Nomad,

california 19/02/2008 17:55:34
#28 Sam

I too feel the need to associate myself with the remarks made by Mr. Sam.
Fidel single handedly returned feudalism to Cuba and made a heroic effort to spread it throughout the Americas. Only devious Yanqui ploys and the sight of all of all of our oppressed brothers and sisters in the US trudging thru their blighted lives with nothing to show for their merciless labor but a Corvette and a speed boat.

Meanwhile the cruel bosses with smirks on their faces are free to park their Corvettes in parking spaces with their names stenciled in just below the words, "reserved for." Do you want to talk about grinding the faces of the poor in the dirt? Do you want to talk about the iron jackboot of merciless Capital (with a capital C) on the back of the necks of the Laboring Classes?

THEY, and we know good and well who they are, and when the revolution comes, right across the neck, baby, right across the neck, and we know where they live. Their families, too. When the flames from the "reserved for" revolution come licking at the seat of Power and Privilege, then they will know what its like to have to jockey for a parking place at 8:30 every single morning, while being laughed at and held up to ridicule and contempt by the 'reserved for' ruling clique.
32

indune1,

Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar 19/02/2008 18:17:46
57Nomad

Gosh, aren't you in a huff! You seem to have passed with honours out of the Marxist-Leninist School of Hyperbole, Rhetoric, Purple Prose and General Anti-Capitalist Sh*t-slinging.

Aren't you just pi**ed that you got stuck with a '57 Nomad instead of a nice, shiny Corvette? Don't be too upset. Most serious sports-car aficionados regard the Corvette as pig designed by some moron on steroids - at least the models post-'63.

One final question: Considering the rhetoric in your posting; did you ever write for Monty Python's Flying Circus?

I swear I recognized some script-lines.
33

Itchy,

19/02/2008 18:21:50
#7 "What are some of you talking about.

He liberated the cuban people from the Batista regime."

No he didn't. He is less liberal than Batista was and the Soviet Union was a genocidal dictatorship.

You are a peabrain.
34

Itchy,

Lochgelly 19/02/2008 18:23:56
"GalacticCannibal,Murrieta, CA........captured from Mexico 1845 19/02/2008 15:06:09
Castro was a real fighter, whether U agree with his ideology or not.
Compared to Pres Bush , Castro was a giant on the world stage."

In what way is he a giant?

He is a tyrant who makes George W Bush seem on the pulse.
35

Itchy,

Lochgelly 19/02/2008 18:25:13
#21 Castro is a communist dictator you idiot.

His ideology is exactly the same as the Marxist-Leninist Mugabe.
36

57Nomad,

california 19/02/2008 18:38:36
#32 Indune

Sheesh! Gimme a break. Somebody slip you a grumpy pill? Maybe I shouldn't have edited out this line.

"The health care system in Cuba is at least comparable to anything we have in California, except that in California we've got medicine and hospitals."

Get it? You are supposed to be laughing.
37

indune1,

19/02/2008 18:42:50

Of course I was laughing!!

Aren't you?

So, you didn't write for the Monty mob?
38

57Nomad,

california 19/02/2008 18:45:49
~#32 Indune

One more thing. People that call Vettes pigs are people who don't have one and can't get one.

Here you go:

2008 Corvette Z06
505 horsepower
less than 75,000 dollars.

Find all of your other five hundred horse power cars for under 75 grand and let us see your list.
39

Finnking,

Lempäälä 19/02/2008 18:49:02
Well done Fidel, have a rest. Is he related now to Mrs. GTX? -Come on Scotsman!)

After trade blockades, economic blockades, invasions (har har) and countless attempts on Mr. GTX's life by the USA, Cuba still remained alive and free.

Now, let's hope that the USA gov will take down ALL the oppressive restrictions on this tint island and allow the people to move towards an effective democracy.

It's about time for the USA elites to forgive these people for supporting nationalism over US acquiescence.
40

57Nomad,

california 19/02/2008 18:50:14
#37

Ok, I thought, damn!, nobody's catching on. I see you were responding in kind. Well done, I guess I was the one who took the grumpy pill. I've grown not to expect the thoughtful and droll from responders, very refreshing.
41

Finnking,

Lempäälä 19/02/2008 18:53:55
Nissan R33 skyline

42

indune1,

19/02/2008 18:54:39

38 - 57 Nomad - Ok, now you've started it.

Ever see the sterotypical Vette owner? Insurance or car salesman who can't afford a Porsche or Jag.

Power does not necessarily insure style, grace and beauty.

Jag 120, 140, 150 and XKE series were all of that.

The early Vettes had all of those elements also.

Today's Vettes? No lines. No style. No grace. Just power.

Plus any sports car that comes with an automatic transmission is meant for pantsuit brigade.

Perhaps there is an early Vette driving around in Fidel-ville!
43

indune1,

19/02/2008 18:57:02
40 - Cheers!
44

Burd Tina,

19/02/2008 19:05:50
#16 yockel

"Suppose Havana will get a McDonalds now"

When I visited the Cubans were into preserving Havana's beauty.

But Varadero will get a McDonalds!
45

mike - across the pond,

arfur... some "inconvenient" truths 19/02/2008 19:23:07
cuban health care... you REALLY should do your research before drinking the kool-aid and slapping down the old gauntlet....

first off... the hospitals they went to were the "communist party" hospitals reserved for the elite

you are 100% correct, cuban health care IS free... (I never said it wasnt) but there are TWO systems...
a) free to the priveledged... and this "free" is on par with any health care found anywhere in the world
b) free to the rest of the population.... THIS health care plan you have to bring your own food, linens, and in many cases medication... now THIS is not the health care even YOU BRITS are accustomed to... is it?

you want to talk about US health care... ok pal, lets talk... correct me if I am wrong here... but yours is pretty much the same as canada's... well I have some experience with canada's health care fiasco (and the DECEPTIONS that surround it)... if its not, forgive me there are several thousand miles of ocean between you and me, but it sure SOUNDS the same... having worked in health care in the northern tier for a few years... every day you see canadians who find treatment their condition on a long "wait list" north of the border coming south of the border to get TIMELY treatment for a condition that the "wait list" makes basically a death sentence... please explain why this "superior" health care system cant take care of their own people? and why anyone would come south to get such "substandard" health care...

you think we turn SO many away... really... you REALLY need to stop drinking the Hillary/Obama kool-aid... listen to a few californians about how many of their health care dollars go to illegal immigrants... why do you think that is pal?
46

Jmhzx,

brighton 19/02/2008 19:27:54
Finnking .. yer aff yer heid

Cuba has been many things but FREE is not one of them. One dictator used an entire country to carry out his personal vendetta against the USA. I could think of worse pastimes and I'm glad that the USA was constantly embarrassed by Castro but he was a bully, a pig and a tyrant. Certainly no better than even George Bush.

we shouldn't let out hatred of USA foreign policy blind us to the wicked, barbarous things that Castro did.

Here's hoping that change will come.
47

Jmhzx,

brighton 19/02/2008 19:33:07
I lived in the USA for 4 years. The healthcare was awesome... but it cost me $9,900 per year. I was lucky. I could afford it but, 50 million people can't.

Yet the USA government can find $600 billion for the Iraq war. The money is there. The Americans simply would rather spend it on killing rather than healing.

such a waste but, in a democracy, that's there choice. Castro never even gave people any choice.
48

Jmhzx,

brighton 19/02/2008 19:34:21
oops.. their choice... not "there choice"
49

GalacticCannibal,

Murrieta, CA........captured from Mexico 1845 19/02/2008 19:40:03
When it comes to performance, its TORQUE not HP that matters.

Clearly u dudes need to understand a bit more about what is critical first second and third etc in cars performance, before u start mouthing off at the tail-pipe.

Happy Custer's Last Stand Day

GC
50

,

19/02/2008 19:46:55
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Reason:
51

57Nomad,

california 19/02/2008 19:50:13
#42 Indy

Your observations are true but they miss the point. The Vette was never meant to be a jag or a porshe or anything like them. You thoughts about Corvette drivers is also well made but again misses the point.

Jags and such also have characteristic drivers and one of their main characteristics is that they are well healed establishment types. They are out of reach of most and thats where they derive their cachet from. A high school boy, who, having worked regularly at Von's or Safeway as a checker for a year can afford an entry level Vette. He'd better still be living at home and he'd better hope the old man ponies up with the insurance money, but he could do it.

It's anti-class, freedom loving, pursuit of happiness all under a fiberglass body. One more thing, American roads are very different than those in Europe where there is a lot of winding and meandering. In the US the roads are long and relatively straight. The GM powerplant is very powerful and extremely reliable. Jaguars, and I think they are beautiful and perfectly executed machines, spend a little too much time at the shop being tended to a guy scratching his head and talking about how long the part is going to take to get from England to Leucadia.

They are both nice cars and I'd take either one, thank you very much. The Vette is an American icon, a reachable goal for any hard working guy, and a pretty good one.
52

Finnking,

Lempäälä 19/02/2008 19:50:26


Galactic

Depends on the track/road, no?

53

57Nomad,

california 19/02/2008 19:57:15
#49 gc

gee, thanks for the physics lesson, Newton.
54

Jmhzx,

brighton 19/02/2008 19:57:47
finnking

I already answered that in No. 23 above mate. If you need more info, feel free to ask and I'm happy to point you in the right direction.

J
55

Calum Crubag,

19/02/2008 19:59:56
#49 GC - come back when you learn English. Though try any other language you may have...

US healthcare? Oxymoron.

Actually agree with Media1 - if this guy was right-wing and head of an oil-rich country, the Yanks would love him. Hence, why the Yanks support Equatorial Guinea.

Maybe the Yanks can now 'civilise' Cuba with Big Mac lard, dodgy elections and gun crime.
56

Jmhzx,

brighton 19/02/2008 20:04:29
55. agree totally mate but, the USA doesn't, sadly, hold a monopoly on dodgy elections....

Scotland is blemish free on that one. But, dodgy elections are still better than no elections a la Castro
57

Jmhzx,

brighton 19/02/2008 20:08:10
meant 'scotland isn't blemish free'

must pay more attention
58

indune1,

19/02/2008 20:15:04
51 - Chevy

Don't misunderstand me. I believe you missed my point.

I am not talking about availibilty or accessibility.

I owned a '61 MGA. Lovely, curvy lines but in terms of power - gutless. But she was a sheer dream to go on a country jaunt. That is what the origins of the sports car were. Totally inpractical, a self-indulgence and most often than not - cheap but cheerful.

I then graduated to a '63 Healey BJ7 one of the first in a line of "Big Brutes". Once again, beautiful, classic lines and relatively powerful.

I now own a '69 MGB. Lovely motor-car but again not a powerhouse but a classic.

As to the difference in roads - Vermont, New Hampshire and Upper New York State are some of the best places for a day rally.

Oh. yes, I digress. Fidel was a political chameleon who ruled with an iron fist - the glove was his brother. Tital dictators the both of them.

Sports cars are far more enjoyable and reliable.


59

Tris,

19/02/2008 20:16:13
"He is a tyrant who makes George W Bush seem on the pulse."


Nah, seriously, no one makes DubYa look on the pulse, not even my granny's cat, and it died last year.
60

Hunky Dorey,

Glasgow 19/02/2008 20:30:44
Viva Fidel Castro! A man of the people who stood up to the rotten American society that used his country as playground for the rich.
61

57Nomad,

california 19/02/2008 20:34:52
#55 CC

CC said:

"US healthcare? Oxymoron."

This is a cultural blindness. Having universal healthcare coverage does not guarantee healthcare. It's a misnomer. What it means is, 'get in line, wait your turn, and if you don't die before we get to your liver transplant we'll see what we can do."

Health insurance and health care are two entirely different things. It's difficult to get this point across to those who seek to make themselves feel superior by remarking on something they no nothing about. There are about six million people in the Greater Manchester area. Those six million people are served by eighteen hospitals.

The Greater San Diego area has a population of less than three million souls. San Diegans are served by 28 hospitals. Got that? Half as many people, forty percent more hospitals. Not only that, these aren't some rundown government shabby, open ward ancient monstrosities. These are state of the art, spotless, thoroughly professional establishments that have to be good and have to be up to date because they operate in a competitive environment and dare not slip behind.

So, if American healthcare is an oxymoron then what does that make an NHS that doesn't have enough beds, nurses, or doctors to go around?

Here is a list of hospitals in San Diego, Google some of them to get an idea of the quality of service they supply: Overflow on subsequent posts

Aurora San Diego Hospital (San Diego, California)

Bayview Hospital and Mental Health System (Chula Vista, California)

Continental Rehabilitation Hospital (San Diego, California)

Fallbrook Hospital (Fallbrook, California)
Alvarado Hospital Medical Center (San Diego, California)


Kaiser Foundation Hospital - San Diego (San Diego, California)

Kindred Hospital-San Diego (San Diego, California)

Naval Hospital (Camp Pendleton, California)

Naval Medical Center (San Diego, California)

Palomar Medical Center (Escondido, Cal
62

Hunky Dorey,

Glasgow 19/02/2008 20:35:16
# 6 Good Point! Maybe by calling the great Fidel--,Castrol they are hinting at an invasion of Cuba with "OIL" in mind. Get it ? Castrol Oil! Och! am awa tae ma bed.
63

57Nomad,

19/02/2008 20:37:14
#61

Paradise Valley Hospital (National City, California)

Pomerado Hospital (Poway, California)

Promise Hospital of San Diego (San Diego, California)

Rady Children's Hospital and Health Center (San Diego, California)

San Diego County Psychiatric Hospital (San Diego, California)

San Diego Hospice & Palliative Care (San Diego, California)

Scripps Green Hospital (La Jolla, California)

Scripps Memorial Hospital-Encinitas (Encinitas, California)

Scripps Memorial Hospital-La Jolla (La Jolla, California)

Scripps Mercy Hospital (San Diego, California)

Sharp Chula Vista Medical Center (Chula Vista, California)

Sharp Coronado Hospital and Health Center (Coronado, Ca

Sharp Grossmont Hospital (La Mesa, California)

Sharp Mary Birch Hospital for Women (San Diego, California)

Sharp Memorial Hospital (San Diego, California)

Tri-City Medical Center (Oceanside, California)

University of California San Diego Medical Center (San Diego, California)

Veterans Affairs San Diego Healthcare System (San Diego, California)

64

Jmhzx,

brighton 19/02/2008 20:41:43
utter rubbish Nomad. These hospitals are only available to those who ca afford them. Sure they have great facilities and provide great services but it isn't exactly universal...

65

Sam,

Edinburgh 19/02/2008 20:44:13
God save good King Fidel,
Cuba and Crown, as well,
Let every serf arise and tell
Monarchy now lives,
Never shall Yanquis win,
Cuba and Fudalism,
Ruling class and Socialism
The Pope is Marx.
We shall now now raise a cheer
Fidel and Raul to hear
Surfs never need have a care
King Fidel still lives!


66

Jmhzx,

brighton 19/02/2008 20:46:49
but Fidel is an atheist..... (as well as being a murderer, torturer, despot and nepotist).
67

mike - across the pond,

finnking.... 19/02/2008 20:59:01
what a lousy memory you have...

so in Finnking's little world Cuba never invaded anyone?

Need I remind you of Angola?
68

mike - across the pond,

Jmhzx 19/02/2008 21:00:21
um pal... you WERE a foreign national... and if you can drop $10k a year you CAN afford it...

please explain to me why you shouldnt afford it?
69

indune1,

19/02/2008 21:05:34

60 - and aren't western tourists the new "rich" enjoying Cuba as a pleasant winter getaway playground?

A playground where the staff at resort hotels prefer to be tipped with toothpaste, deoderant and toothbrushes.

This Castro was exploited by the Soviets to the point he almost brought the world to nuclear armegeddon.

He was a Soviet puppet. He brought freedom to his people? Nah.

Oh, by the way: can anyone name the democratically elected leader of Cuba's opposition party ( please no comedians, it is not George Bush)?
70

Jmhzx,

brighton 19/02/2008 21:10:30
you presume I wasn't born in states.

I had no problem paying it .. er 'pal' ... but the fact is that you allow millions upon millions to go without healthcare just because they're not paid enough to afford it. That is certainly not a system which is the "envy of 99% of the rest of the world" as you so erroniously claim. (btw, Do you need me to explain what erronious means?)

The USA puts killing before healing.

You must be terribly proud.
71

iuris dea ,

19/02/2008 21:23:44
Castro: "Wait... wait just one minute...
I know I can think of a better headline than this one. I'm still standing. I know I am."

The Scotsman: "Nope. SO sorry, you're time is up. I've got to put this story to bed."

Castro: But.. but.. can't I call Michael Moore first? He's my friend. He'll think of a better headline.
72

indune1,

19/02/2008 22:36:16

70 -Jmhzx - don't know about Nomad, but I would love you to explain erronious?

Is it a planet or perhaps a Roman Emperor?

I already know about erroneous. :)
73

John Blackley,

Winter Garden, FL 19/02/2008 23:15:49
To all who ridiculed Mike Across The Pond's description of the US healthcare system: Tell me your personal experience of the system (and not the usual, easier-than-actually-finding-out drivel that's kicked around). Tell me your personal experience of the healthcare system where you live (and not some government propaganda about an eighteen-week wait being a good thing.)

Then I'll tell you my experiences with the US and the British healthcare systems and perhaps we'll all be a little more wise.
74

Lynne,

USA 19/02/2008 23:20:51

Exiles hail news of Castro's resignation
Most see little chance of immediate change; U.S. says embargo to stay
MSNBC News Services
updated 2:33 p.m. ET, Tues., Feb. 19, 2008
MIAMI - There was little dancing in the streets, no widespread celebration. In Little Havana, the heart of the Cuban exile community, the long-awaited news that Cuban President Fidel Castro resigned brought only muted glee — and a feeling that little would change for the communist island many had fled.
As news of the resignation spread, motorists honked vigorously at police patrol cars and television reporters. Isolated shouts of “Free Cuba!” echoed in the streets, and small groups gathered to chat in local eateries. But the community’s reaction to the news, long expected to spark vibrant celebration, was filled with caution.
“I hope this is the beginning of the end of the system, but we have to wait,” said 35-year-old chemist Omar Fernandez, who left Cuba for the U.S. six years ago.
Repeated rumors of Castro’s death over the years helped prepare residents and officials for a day that all knew would eventually come. But the scene here Tuesday was far quieter than when thousands jubilantly took to the streets after Castro temporarily handed power to his brother Raul in July 2006. The fact is, residents said, Cuba is the same with Castro’s brother in power.
75

Dáithí,

San Jose 19/02/2008 23:21:27
#70 - Jmhzx

>"but the fact is that you allow millions upon millions to go without healthcare..."

Huh? ANYONE dials 911 and they get an ambulance and (probably) paramedics. You go to the ER. They take you in.

Why do you think so many Americans object to THE FREE HEALTH CARE THAT ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS ARE GETTING?
76

Lynne,

19/02/2008 23:21:47
continued

“It’s the same repression inside Cuba. No freedom. No refuge. Lack of liberty,” said Pedro Lopez, 54, who came from Cuba about 30 years ago.
Most exiles view Fidel Castro as a ruthless dictator who forced them, their parents or grandparents from their home after he seized power in a revolution in 1959. Police said they were “keeping a sharp eye” on Little Havana, but no disruptions had been reported. The Coast Guard said it did not expect a mass migration or see a need to increase patrols off Florida.
Ulises Colina, a 65-year-old electrical technician, said he was not certain if the resignation would bring any change. “I think it was a foregone conclusion that his political career would be over soon,” Colina said.
Colina theorized that any change in Cuba would have to come from within the military.
“Changes? Well, he’s the leader of the gang but he has a bunch of auxiliary gang members who don’t want to see change,” Colina said.
At a popular Cuban restaurant farther from Little Havana, the sentiments were similar.
“Even though this is great news for Cubans and for me personally, but I don’t think anything is going to change,” said Jose Miranda, 46. “Last time I was here was when the news said that he was really sick and we thought that he was dead. And look what has happened. Nothing.”
'Cuba Libre!'
Not all were reserved after hearing the news, and some took it as another call to demand change. Santiago Portal wore a white suit, red bow tie and a stars-and-stripes top hat as he danced and flashed the peace sign in front of the popular Versailles restaurant.
“Cuba Libre!” Portal, 62, shouted, holding a sign that read in Spanish, “Fidel died. I want change.”
Miguel Saavedra echoed his cry from across the street, where a huge Cuban flag hung from between two palm trees.
“The time is now!” Saavedra shouted. “Freedom for Cuba! Forty-nine years too much!”
About 1.5 million Cubans and Cuban-Americans live in the U.S., two-thirds of them in Florida,
77

Conan,

Chile 19/02/2008 23:22:01
Prediction:- Cuba will be the US' next State by 2050.
78

Lynne,

USA 19/02/2008 23:22:40
continued

About 1.5 million Cubans and Cuban-Americans live in the U.S., two-thirds of them in Florida, and the majority in Miami-Dade County, according to the U.S. Census Bureau.
Since they began arriving, the Miami area has become a mostly Hispanic, bustling city that is a hub for international trade and finance, but also deals with poverty. What was once a city marked by Southern drawls in English transformed into a place where Spanish is spoken everywhere.
The community with the second-largest Cuban population after Miami is Union City, N.J. There, as in Miami, Cuban-Americans were largely skeptical about the immediate prospects for change in their homeland.
“It’s one dictator for the next,” said Frank Corbato, 48, a truck driver born in Havana who lives in nearby North Bergen.
Corbato, who came to the U.S. more than 30 years ago, said he wants the U.S. embargo to end, but thinks now isn’t the time to do it. “Wait a little bit and see if change comes,” he said.
79

Lynne,

USA 19/02/2008 23:23:49
continued

Generational divide
The first wave of Cubans who fled the island immediately after Castro took power, often sending their children ahead of them on so-called “Peter Pan” flights, generally support the most hardline U.S. policies toward the island. With waning family ties to the island, they are among the most vocal backers of the U.S. embargo.
The views of their children and successive waves of Cuban immigrants are more complicated. Those who came over since 1980 are more likely to have grown up under the Castro government and still have family on the island. They chafe under the Bush administration’s 2004 restrictions, which limit the money that can be sent home and restrict island visits to once every three years for immediate relatives only.
Cuba experts in the U.S. also didn’t expect any immediate shifts in policy.
“For Cuban-Americans it doesn’t mean a whole big deal. It’s the continuation with a different face,” said Andy Gomez of the University of Miami’s Institute for Cuban and Cuban American Studies.
The Associated Press and Reuters contributed to this report.
URL: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/23233481/

80

Jmhzx,

brighton 19/02/2008 23:39:55
back from pub. lol @ 72 indune. I shouldn't do this while I'm getting dressed to go out. My bad dude!

No. 73. My experience of USA's health care is that it takes far too long to see a GP or internalist. Once you do get that far, it takes no time for specialist treatment. It's good that way but, it shouldn't take so long to see a GP. In England, it's the opposite. It takes absolutely no time to see a GP but you can wait weeks before you see the specialist unless you opt to pay privately, which believe me, is still much cheaper here than it is in the USA.

Private Health care offers some very good rates for comprehensive cover. $4k here compared to almost $10k there.

Also, drug companies have far too much power in both countries. According to my GP over in DC, USA drug companies spend 60% of their money on advertising. Not sure if it's true but if it is, it's truly shocking.

81

indune1,

19/02/2008 23:41:01

73 - I thought the discussion/debate was about conditions within Cuban society - the provision of healthcare being one - as a test of Castro's leadership.

That began 50 yrs ago.

All of us have improved. Many of Cuba's doctors received medical training from the Soviets in return for Cuba's commitment to foreign wars in the name of Soviet expansionism.

Cuba's exportation of Communism - Angola - was both at the expense of her people and at the extortion of the Soviet Union.
82

The poster formerly known as "A with circumflex",

19/02/2008 23:43:15
#75,

For a start, you're not allowed to challenge the UK's "immigration policy".

Here, in the Peoples' Republic of Broonshire, it takes longer to get through the airport after returning form holiday with a genuine UK passport than it does to disappear off the Eurostar at the western end of the tunnel.

Fidel Salmond is retiring (note to subs -check spelling).

Probably 2 million illegals on these shores.
83

indune1,

19/02/2008 23:44:44

80 - hope you had a good time at the pub.

Sorry, was a cheap shot but meant with the best intentions of drawing a laugh, which we all need now and again.

Cheers.
84

GalacticCannibal,

Murrieta, CA........captured from Mexico 1845 19/02/2008 23:48:17
4
Jmhzx,
brighton
-----------------------------

Hate to say it Dude but I agree with ur comment.

American medicine and American health care provider is a fantastic system
FOR tHOSE WHO CANT AFFORD IT OR HAVE THE REQUIRED MED INSURANCE.

WE have 47 million Americans who have no insurance and so put off seeing the doctor, or they crawl to the URGENT CARE centers for help.

They cannot be turned away, but if U every went to one of thes UC centers . this sight of people groveling for so-called FREE help would make U vomit.

This old timer 57Nomad chooses his responses and not always gives an exact or complete picture.


Chill out Dudes

GC
85

GalacticCannibal,

Murrieta, CA........captured from Mexico 1845 19/02/2008 23:49:25
correction FOR THOSE WHO CAN AFFORD

GC
86

57Nomad,

19/02/2008 23:58:04
#64
Jmhzx,
brighton 19/02/2008 20:41:43


"utter rubbish Nomad. These hospitals are only available to those who ca afford them. Sure they have great facilities and provide great services but it isn't exactly universal... "

First let me give you some props for the, "utter rubbish," deal. It's very intimidating. Plus an American can't use that expression because someone will slap him. I like it.

That's form, this is substance. You have seen that there are more extensive medical services available in San Diego that there are in Manchester despite the NHS promise of universal care. Your reply is predictable but unfortunate. It reveals a dogmatic point of view so strong that is has blinded you to what is in plain view.

Your point about the ability to pay is entirely beside the point. It is also incorrect. All that matters is the total amount of service rendered. The private system in California delivers a significantly higher amount of health care services and delivers them in a timely manner than the NHS does in Britain.

Here's something else, I didn't even list Thornton Hospital. Anyone reading this should google Thornton Hospital in La Jolla California, (it's a UCSD hospital). Go ahead and then show me what you've got in Manchester.

Your viewpoint is based on the notion that no insurance equals no care. This is not the case and never has been. Here is something that you do not know. Now you will and you will understand why your preconceived notions are mistaken. Britain has an efficient NHS but size creates many problems. Britain is half the size of California. There are 49 other states. The scope of administering such a massive bureau is frightening. It is also bad policy. Providing health care for the needy is addressed but it addressed at the state and local level.

In California the state provided insurance is called Medi-Cal. If you are broke and can't afford medical care you take yourself down to the Medi-Cal office and some very pol
87

57Nomad,

19/02/2008 23:59:21


In California the state provided insurance is called Medi-Cal. If you are broke and can't afford medical care you take yourself down to the Medi-Cal office and some very polite and competent individuals will get you enrolled. Bingo! You're insured. You didn't know that did you. The US provides better health care to more people that any nationalized health service possibly can.

Your opposition to our system is based on incomplete knowledge of the Federal nature of the government. In many cases of this type the Federal Government is expressly forbidden from legislating in these areas. The level of government closest to the people being served is the proper level to handle the issue. Government is you and your neighbor. It's not some amorphous conspiracy controlled by unnamed Illuminati.
What you do on the national level we do on the state level. We just do it better.
88

indune1,

20/02/2008 00:05:08
Ok.But what about the Vette?
89

Dáithí,

San Jose 20/02/2008 00:08:14
#84 - GC

>"WE have 47 million Americans who have no insurance and so put off seeing the doctor...

Whoa, dude, lets explore that! I'm not going to contest the numbers (for now), but:

How many of those are young adults that would rather spend that $$$ on big-screen TV's, Wii's and cool cars - then when they have a 'surprise medical problem' cry 'boo-hoo, no insurance?

Why do you think that young people flock to the first candidate that promises 'free health care'?

> or they crawl to the URGENT CARE centers for help.

Crawl? Who are you foolin'?

They dial '911' and then all of us have to wait in traffic while they are driven 'free of charge' to these fine medical facilities as listed earlier?

I could go on - you want to talk how the 'uninsured' are scamming State Comp? Do you know what 'Anchor babies' are?

I'm all for helping the genuine needy - but Doctor's don't fit my bill of the 'genuine needy' and they will be the first to profit from government run health care.

They will refer EVERYONE to go get specialized medical testing - from offices that THEY own as part of their 'medical corporation'!
90

Lynne,

USA 20/02/2008 01:09:07
Dáithí,San Jose I live in Florida..no hospital is allowed (against the law) to turn a patient away. One can make arrangements to pay for services..but they are not allowed to turn away patients.
The ambulances here charge. They come from the Firehouses with EMTs, but you get billed later. Private ambulance services, of course patient pays after billing.

There are also a few doctors here who have been caught overbilling Medicare, Medicaid..(like MediCal), but they are few and far between.
The new thing is the "VIP Patient" . This is a new "scam" as far as I am concerned. Depending on one's family physcian, location the prices range $200-$1500 per year...and for this you get 24 hour service. You are guaranteed a call back in the middle of the night by that doctor, and he will be on call for you 24/7. The patient care is supposed to be better!!
Now I ask you, what kind of care were these patients getting before? Just another way to make money, that the insurance companies cannot watch over and oversee.
Like I said "scam".
91

Lynne,

USA 20/02/2008 01:12:59
Oh, by the way there are many doctors doing this and more every day. Some, have even decided that this is a full-time thing and will only take VIP patients. They have sent out letters to their "clients" telling them they will have to find another doctor as this is what their practices will be handling from now on.
92

SouthernGent,

20/02/2008 01:43:31
A few observations:

-Healthcare and health insurance are not the same. US healthcare is highly advanced and always cutting edge.

-The "poor" do have health insurance, either through State programs or Medicaid (google it). They do not have insurance through their employers (as many are not employed). Self-employed individuals get the shaft.

-You can not compare "National Systems" with the "US system" unless you do an in depth study of the tax rates. You pay for it one way or another, but you do pay.

-Cuba is a Communist Dictatorship, and Castro is,was and always will be a dictator. Put the blame where it belongs - with Castro.
93

57Nomad,

20/02/2008 03:34:10
#84 GC

GC said:

"They cannot be turned away, but if U every went to one of thes UC centers . this sight of people groveling for so-called FREE help would make U vomit.
This old timer 57Nomad chooses his responses and not always gives an exact or complete picture."

Cannibal why don't you have a look for yourself instead of shooting your mouth off. What you wrote is an out and out lie. Everyone is treated the same insurance or no insurance. No one grovels no one begs you lying little snake.

Then this:

"WE have 47 million Americans who have no insurance and so put off seeing the doctor, or they crawl to the URGENT CARE centers for help."

Most of the 47 million uninsured are people between the ages of 18 to 35. This is the healthiest age cohort and the cost of yearly medical expenses is much less than insurance premiums so they'd have to be kinda shnooky to have it.

You are leaving out Medi-Cal so you're the one who is picking and choosing your facts, not me. To sum up, your characterization of people groveling for free care is an out and out lie and you GC are a liar.

I have cautioned you before about making personal characterizations of me. We're close enough, 20, 30 minutes to give you a perception based on something besides your 5-ht overloaded brain. I've offered this before but apparently you talk about it but when you have the opportunity, you don't want it. Here's my email addy: oneohonerunner yahoo IM and email. Come visit, learn something.


94

Dáithí,

San Jose 20/02/2008 04:07:38
#90 - Lynne

>"The ambulances here charge."

Same here in the South Bay. When I said 'free of charge', the Medics (which come from the firehouses) are free.

If you don't pay the ambulances here, they just 'write it off'. When they bid their contracts, they incorporate a 'pad' for calls that they know they won't be reimbursed for.

I've been in the emergency services business since 1972, no ambulance turns down anyone.

In fact, if you DECLINE and ambulance you are required to sign a waiver! They usually WANT you to take an ambulance. Know why?

Because if you DO have a medical problem and the ambulance DOESN'T take you, they are easily found liable shoud you develop a serious problem because of non-treatment.

Dorks like Michael Moore KNOW that few people around the world know what happens here, and exploits the 'emotionalism' of the issue for his own profit.
95

Lynne,

USA 20/02/2008 04:18:22
Dáithí,San Jose Michael Moore..more than a dork..Talk about lying and mis-editing!! His 2nd movie had a lot of lawsuits against him from soldiers, no less.
96

,

20/02/2008 07:32:05
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
97

,

20/02/2008 07:35:00
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
98

Lynne,

USA 20/02/2008 13:50:54
Jacobite..Maybe if you read of the plight of these Cubans instead of your Viva La Revolution..your tune would change.
He lined up and shot many without trials, there is not enough food or money, and all the Cubans here in Florida are fully aware that there is not going to be much change there. After all, they have been sending their money back there to help out their families.
They lost all they had, risking their lives on an open sea, in not only boats, but tires, rafts, old trucks and anything that would float. They didn't think that Castro was so wonderful, and they didn't want to live in a failed state of communism.

A while back, I took my children and husband to Russia, (when the KGB was still around), supposed to be a trip of a lifetime for my children to see where their Great Grandparents came from...anyway I digress. On the Aeroflat plane from Ireland to Russia, the plane was completely full of Cuban military. They were going to be trained by the Russians.


99

Boy Wonder II,

20/02/2008 13:59:04
#50 Finnking - Troll

Does Djookers aka Mines's an 80 bob know you are bored with his FH site and you're back here?
100

57Nomad,

20/02/2008 20:30:33

#58 Indy

I owned an Austin Healey 3000. I was 22 years old. Just got out of the Air Force. Some fun, Indy, some fun.
101

Dáithí,

San Jose 20/02/2008 22:24:11
#58 and #100

Two MGB's for me, a 1976 (blue) - then a 1979 (black). I bought them both new, traded the '76 in on the '79 when I found out that '79 was the last year that they would available in the US.

Sadly, they are gone and it was true.
102

GalacticCannibal,

Murrieta, CA........captured from Mexico 1845 21/02/2008 01:33:28
93
57Nomad,
20/02/2008 03:34:10

OH MY DOG Dude.

Don't get so wound up. If U feel I am a liar, that's U opinion Dude . That's all it is.

Try and dig ur head out of the RSAM (Republican Scam Attack Machine).. it will only stress U out Dude..

And I maybe moving to "The Village" ..back EAST ..If so my scribes to these posts will cease.

GC
103

57Nomad,

california 23/02/2008 12:57:40
#102 GC

CG said:

"Don't get so wound up. If U feel I am a liar, that's U opinion Dude . That's all it is."

Excuse me, are you the same guy who wrote this:

"They cannot be turned away, but if U every went to one of thes UC centers . this sight of people groveling for so-called FREE help would make U vomit.
This old timer 57Nomad chooses his responses and not always gives an exact or complete picture."

So, I don't give an exact or complete picture? You said that people had to grovel to get free treatment. To be exact you said: "f U every went to one of thes UC centers . this sight of people groveling for so-called FREE help would make U vomit."

The fact is this. You made that up. You have never witnessed any such thing. What you said is a complete fabrication that flopped out of your diseased and filthy mind and landed on your keyboard.

So, let me be crystal clear, what you said was a lie and you are a lying SOB. You didn't make a mistake, you didn't misquote any one, what you said is an out and out lie and you GC are a lying SOB. Would you like to meet 'the old timer' in person? I think that would be a chance to clear up some misconceptions.



 

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