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'Too many women are coming into medicine'

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Published Date: 04 April 2008
GROWING numbers of women entering the medical profession, and demanding flexible working hours and maternity leave, will create a major shortfall in the future provision of primary care, an expert has warned.
Dr Brian McKinstry, a senior research fellow at Edinburgh University, said an excess of female graduates was bad for medicine, just as an excess of male graduates had been in the past.

Dr McKinstry said women's earlier retirement and the fact
they were less likely to carry out research work would be detrimental to medicine.

He also claimed women medics spent longer with their patients.

Writing in the British Medical Journal, he called for the numbers entering medical schools to reflect society – roughly half men and half women. At the moment, women students outnumber men by about three to two

In 2002-3, all UK medical schools had more female students than male – in some cases, more than 65 per cent were women.

Dr McKinstry said the main concerns focused on the work-patterns of women doctors, who tended towards "family-friendly" specialities, such as primary care and psychiatry, rather than surgery. "This unequal distribution means some specialities feel the implications of part-time working and maternity leave, such as lack of continuity of care and resource use, disproportionately," he wrote.

Dr McKinstry, a GP in West Lothian, said female doctors were much more likely to work part-time than male medics.

"Despite many years of feminist discourse, society still expects women to reduce work commitments to look after children and not to return to full-time work until their children are older," he wrote.

And more female GPs than men planned to retire before the age of 60, he added.

Dr McKinstry said fewer women than men chose to work out-of-hours. He added that the increase in women doctors may have partly influenced the recent departure of GPs from out-of-hours work.

Because of part-time working and earlier retirement, he said, a greater number of women in medicine would cause a "major shortfall in primary-care provision".

He also said women were less likely to carry out research, teaching, training and committee work, which could affect the development of the profession as a whole.

Dr McKinstry claimed women were more likely to spend longer with patients.

"I think patients feel better for having a longer appointment, but I don't know to what extent that is going to have an effect on disease prevention and helping people get over illness quicker," he said.

He conceded that women had been unfairly discriminated against in medicine for many years. But unless there was a change in society in terms of responsibility for childcare, there needed to be more balance in the recruitment of women into the profession, he said.

Professor Jane Dacre, from University College London, also writing in the BMJ, said that, rather than worrying about too many women in medicine, people should be focusing on ensuring equal opportunities.

She also pointed out that women performed better in medical exams than men.

"Rather than focus on the detrimental effect of having too many female graduates, the feminisation of medicine should be welcomed as an opportunity to be creative with workforce planning and to recognise that a more flexible approach is required to deliver good-quality patient care at all times of day and night," she said.

Dr Sally Winning, a member of the British Medical Association's Scottish Council, said: "As the number of women entering medicine has increased, it has become imperative to address career barriers and flexible-working strategies to ensure a positive future for women choosing medicine as a career."

A spokesman for the Equality and Human Rights Commission said more creative planning was essential to ensure workplace practices were designed to meet the real needs of mothers, fathers and carers.

Diagnosis of medical woes meets a mixed reception

WHEN Dr Brian McKinstry told his colleagues he had agreed to write in the British Medical Journal arguing that there were too many female medical graduates in the UK, they thought he must be mad.

"They thought people would be outraged," he said.

Then when he showed the article to a number of fellow doctors before publication, he received a mixed response.

"Some of the women I showed the report to did not like it and were quite angry.

"But others could see the point I was making and said it was well argued.

"All the men loved it, obviously."

Dr McKinstry accepted that his opinion may cause some controversy. But he said that he had sympathies for women trying to carve a career in medicine.

"I do think women have a really hard time in the medical profession.

"We need a change in society which makes it easier for them to have a career and a family, but that is not a simple solution.

"But we have got to take these issues into account, because it does have a knock-on effect for the development of the profession."





Page 1 of 1

  • Last Updated: 03 April 2008 10:22 PM
  • Source: The Scotsman
  • Location: Edinburgh
 
1

Charles Linskaill,

Edinburgh 04/04/2008 00:28:05
Dr McKinstry, sounds like a....'Chauvinist 'P'

Women are a very valuable asset, in our Health Care System, they help many and without them, we would be going back to the,

'Worse than Dark Ages'

Pregnancy and Family!!..'D'oh..'Soo What'?!!

"Dr McKinstry" Knows Absolutely nothing about Women and has a personal problem with that!, as far as I can see!



2

Resolutions,

04/04/2008 00:41:00
Seem to recollect that there are more women in the population than men, so in proportion more are likely to go into a career.
Also girls tended to perform better than boys in school so more get the relevant qualifications to enter medicine.
So what's the problem? Sour grapes?
3

Anne,

Eaglesham 04/04/2008 00:56:20
Point is that female-dominated professions tend to attract lesser rates of pay!
4

FrancesP,

04/04/2008 01:05:44
#2. The point is that if women were still in the minority going into the profession, it wouldn't be considered good enough to just say 'sour grapes, because men do better in the exams'. It would be accepted that the issue must be more complex than that, and we shouldn't look at it any differently just because the boot's now on the other foot.
5

Charles Linskaill,

Edinburgh 04/04/2008 01:19:27
Resolutions,@#2,

'WELL-SAID'!

This,,Guy..(Ape Man),, is really behind the times!

Any Woman that goes into Medicine and albeit, has her 'rightfully' time out, for bringing assets into our world (Babies and Family), in my books, are MORE than a,
'Welcome' 'Asset' to the Medical Profession!

They have more thought, experience, Awareness, and dedication, after their,,'Baby Time'!
And on 'Top of This', have their "Profession"!

Here is The NEW WORLD!!...2008!

My DYW applied for a new job recently,

(childcare Babies, Toddlers)

1st Question!

"What age are you"?

2nd Question!

"Have you got Children"?

Answer...

"NO"..But trying for a Baby,..'re' IVF"!

Future Employers Remark!,

"So you will be looking for a 'happy event' in the NOT to distant future,?

DYW's Remark!,

"Yes We Will"!

Future Employer NOW knowing all this, said,

"We are looking for the more Mature"!
____________

Guess What,?

DYW got the Job, even though, they Knew she was most likely to take time off for IVF and hopefully, Pregnancy (final stages)

Reason I think, if DYW is in the caring for other services (our young)

Better the Woman that has her 'Heart in it'

Rather than..'Clubbing it'!
6

Charles Linskaill,

Edinburgh 04/04/2008 01:24:30
*Reason I think, if DYW is in the caring for other services (our young)*

OK ammended mistke,

* The reason I think,my DYW got the Job, in the caring for other services (our young)*
7

Charles Linskaill,

Edinburgh 04/04/2008 01:55:07
Reiterated points being!

They know my DYW will take time out for, the very natural..'Baby Time',

Not to far ..'Down the Line'!

But My DYW's..'assets'..are perfect and too important to dismiss, just because she..,

'Wants a Baby' and will need, some time out for this!

Welcome to our World, 2008!

And..'STOP ALL THIS,,WOMAN BASHING'!!

'RIGHT NOW'!!!!!!!!!!!!
8

MORE MALE DOCTORS ARE BETTER,

California, USA 04/04/2008 03:24:40
I think ALL medical schools should act now to place EQUAL numbers of males and females doctors into medical schools BUT NOT BASED ON THEIR GRADES.

REASONS ARE SIMPLE:

1) Women are VERY VERY EMOTIONAL

2) Because there are almost an equal number of male and female patients. IN ADDITION, men tend to do better in research than women.

Let me know if the following stats are wrong:

Tell me why all the following are men inventions?
1) Computer, 2) Internet, 3) Rocket, 4) Satellite, 5) Vaccination, 6) Airplane, 7) Car, 8) Light Bulb, 9) Paper, 10) Clock, 11) Contraceptive Pills, 12) Tires, etc.

then what were females doing during the past decades?

I think now it's time for medical schools to RE-consider the admission not solely based on GRADES but rather on GENDER, etc.
9

C.U. Jimmy,

04/04/2008 04:38:37
I once had my prostate gland gently palpated by the slender, rubber-gloved fingers of a highly attractive woman doctor. It was a very positive experience, causing strong feelings of attraction towards the doctor. Afterwards, we er... modesty forbids, etc., etc.

No way is any male doctor going to snap on the rubber gloves behind my back!
10

FrancesP,

04/04/2008 04:46:36
Once everyone has got the predictable sarcastic remarks out of their system, perhaps we could look at the underlying reasons why boys are falling so far behind girls at school, and are thus less likely to go on to become medically qualified. To reiterate what I said earlier, if it was the other way round, few people (least of all myself) would think it an acceptable response to simply shrug our shoulders and say 'that's just the way it is, let's see the positives in it'.
11

Victoria,

04/04/2008 08:14:23
Would just like to point out that Dr McKinstry, busy complaining about how women doctors tend to shy away from surgery and towards family friendly areas of medicine is a GP so is not himself pursuing a research based or surgical medical career, I have three words for you Dr McKinstry - pot, kettle, black!

In general I prefer seeing female doctors - they tend to actually listen to what is wrong and are less likely to be condascending. Yes some male doctors are also like this, but there are many who are arrogant and/or too detached.
12

Profit Seeker,

I fear that many of you miss the point here 04/04/2008 09:09:58
Far form being a chauvinist, the author is simply pointing out A FACT! It is true that Medicine is dominated by women and this clearly raises issues.

It would be a poor place if people are not allowed to raise issues would it not?

I for one am all for family friendly and flexible working for women but surely we must recognise that if the medical workforce is dominated by women then that does present issues for managing the service provided.

As to #11 you comment about Dr McKinstry "complaining that women shy away from surgery" I would suggest again he was stating a FACT I hear no complaint in his language!

I must say that I do think that some of the concerns raised (on both sides of the argument) are fair these are issues that must be discussed and addressed. Its a shame some of you simply want to attack any such debate!.
13

A B Bluewell,

UK 04/04/2008 09:39:52
The thing I find odd is that, well, surely women and children have existed for QUITE a long time - it's not like we're new on the scene. So why can people and policy makers not work out that a better system needs to be in place where PARENTS (not just mothers) can get adequate childcare provision, and spend a decent and reasonable amount of time bringing up their children and having a career. I know there is not an overnight solution to this, since it involves radical change, but you'd think they could make a bit more of a start than they have.
And it's offensive that the way this is biased is that 'women are a problem to be solved' and that 'women are responsible for childcare' - this demonisation is like something from the dark ages, and shows levels of ignorance which are quite mindblowing.
ps - to the flamers - good luck with your issues.
14

WYGMBP,

Germany 04/04/2008 10:55:24
The NHS is neither a private company, nor profit centre. It should therefore not be judged according to performance measures such as unit-cost-of-operation, relevant only to the private sector. As a public sector company, it should be judged on how effective it serves its client - the public -.
15

Stu_R_20,

Edinburgh 04/04/2008 11:37:05
Funnily enough I remember seeing a graph which showed women's participation in medicine increasing from below left and then advancement of medical technology/ techniques decreasing from top left, entering equilibrium at some percentage.
But in all squareness, in countries such as S.Korea, China and Japan where boys perform better in school than girls their technology, infastructure and science continue to grow at exponential rate whereas we are plateauing.....a link? You decide.
16

lac,

Ecosse 04/04/2008 12:18:11
No surprises here then. Female types are higher achievers than male types at secondary education stage; medical training selects candidates based on academic achievement at school; therefore, more female types than male types enter medical school and the profession. Later in life females are the spawners therefore, will require facilitation when it comes to raising a family. Answer is to train more medics in total, girls and boys. As the father of a young female medic it has been interesting to watch her original university classmates select jobs and they seem to conform to Dr McKinstry's theory. A disproportionate number have opted for GP training in the belief that it will provide a more family-friendly working environment. Also, like all good theories Dr McKinstry's is a bit of a statement of the bleeding obvious.
17

Horrible Cankers at the Cyber Shebeen,

04/04/2008 12:59:49
8...Try googling 'women inventors' mate...eh go on I dare you...
18

JT,

04/04/2008 13:32:20
There are somethings as a woman feel the need to discuss with a female doctor or nurse as you may not get a pro active answer from a male doctor or nurse. This pratt needs to remember that not all women can or want kids, and without those who do have kids there wouldnt be the future earners who are going to pay for his keep.
19

McX,

04/04/2008 14:18:43
I blame that Doctor Quinn. Medicine woman, right!
20

WOMENNOTINMEDICINE,

Utah, USA 04/04/2008 14:44:05
I TOTALLY REJECT THE IDEA THERE ARE MORE WOMEN GOING TO MED SCHOOL. I STILL REMEMBER WHILE MY SON WAITING FOR AN EMERGENCY TREATMENT IN A CLINIC, THE FEMALE DOCTOR DOESN"T CARE ABOUT US AND SHE KEEPS SPENDING ANOTHER 15 MINUTES TO CHAT WITH HER FEMALE PATIENT (AND THEY LAUGH PRETTY LOUD). HEY!!! WHY THE GRADES ARE THE ONLY FACTOR TO DETERMINE THE CANDIDATE'S MED SCHOOL ADMISSIBILITY? NOT THE GENDER??

I TOTALLY SUPPORT POST 8, where he says "1) Women are VERY VERY EMOTIONAL

2) ...

Let me know if the following stats are wrong:

Tell me why all the following are men inventions?
1) Computer, 2) Internet, 3) Rocket, 4) Satellite, 5) Vaccination, 6) Airplane, 7) Car, 8) Light Bulb, 9) Paper, 10) Clock, 11) Contraceptive Pills, 12) Tires, etc.

then what were females doing during the past decades?

I think now it's time for medical schools to RE-consider the admission not solely based on GRADES but rather on GENDER, etc."
21

WOMENNOTINMEDICINE,

Utah, USA 04/04/2008 14:54:15
FOR POST 21,

do you think women inventions are really relevant??? like the following you mentioned:
like liquid paper, barbie, etc???

we can live into this world without barbies, etc. BUT WE CANNOT LIVE INTO THIS WORLD WITHOUT CARS, AIRPLANES, VACCINATIONS, LIGHT BULBS, ALL MEN INVENTIONS.

anyway I totally reject the idea there are more women going to med school...
22

Boy Wonder,

04/04/2008 15:19:34
I'm quite happy with women doctors, surgeons, nurses, whatever. As long as they can do the job required, what does their sex have to do with it.

I'd really like a female doctor to have a look at #1#5#6#7 - Chuckles Linskaill and have him sectioned though. Give his DYW (and us) a rest!
23

MichaelSlater,

04/04/2008 16:23:39
Resolutions #2, the problem is that female doctors do not work as hard male doctors.

Women work shorter hours, they are more likely to work part time, less likely to work overtime, they are more likely to take maternity leave and they plan to retire sooner than male doctors, as stated in the article (did you even read it?).

The unmistakable, politically incorrect fact is that the returns for the society are lower when the expensive medical training is invested in women.

We're finally starting to see the consequences of 'feminism' and 'equality'. More and more females are becoming doctors. But they do not want to put in as much work as male doctors, expecting men to do the extra work for them, thus creating a knock on effect in the society, leading to detrimental results in the medical care and workplace in general.
24

Horrible Cankers at the Cyber Shebeen,

04/04/2008 16:51:17
21...Not nice mate...pretty selective choice you made there...how about...Grace Hopper...Ada Lovelace..Marie Curie..(Discoverer)..Naomi Nakao..Patricia Billings..Rachael Fuller Brown...there are plenty women inventors and discoverers in the field of science...try googling Rosalyn Franklin.....and do yourself a favour...dont read the first site you come across...try a few..you might just learn something..
25

Stu_R_20,

Edinburgh 04/04/2008 17:25:25
#17
The teaching methods in these respective countries are light years ahead of us. Britain has been in educational decline since 1979/80 and the seeds are beginning to germinate: I saw two young, female doctors regarding the same thing, both diagnosed me incorrectly. The latter, an Irish women of about 26-30 never listened to a word I told her: Despite me telling her that her diagnosis was wrong and that the previous doctor had prescribed me the smae course of action, she paid no attention.
Her attitude: At the end of the day I'm not a 'doctor', what do I know?
26

WOMENNOTINMEDICINE,

Utah, USA 04/04/2008 17:59:09
For post 28: YOU SHOULD KNOW THE FIRST COMPUTER WAS INVENTED BY IBM... ALL ARE MEN INVENTIONS EVEN MICROSOFT WINDOWS, DOS, C++, JAVA... then what were females doing in the past 3000 years? (Just job, med school competition with men, etc.?)

Even if you talk about "Curie" was the "discovery" not invetions. Inventions are for examples:

Light Bulb (Men inventions)
Car (Men inventions)
Airplane (Men inventions)
Microwave (Men inventions)
Pen (Men inventions)
Vaccincation (Men inventions)
Ballon (Men inventions)
camera (Men inventions)
Satellite (Men inventions)
Computer (Men inventions)
Calculator (Men inventions)
Train (Men inventions)
Radio (Men inventions)
Tire (Men inventions)
Gun (Men inventions)
Ship (Men inventions)
Contraceptive pills (Men inventions)
Perfume (Men inventions)

etc.

IMAGINE IF IN THE PAST UNIVERSITY ONLY ACCEPT WOMEN GOING TO MED SCHOOL BASED ON THEIR GOOD GRADES, THEN TH WORLD TODAY WOULD BECOME VERY PRIMITIVE WITHOUT ALL THESE "MEN INVENTIONS"

SO WHAT WERE FEMALES DOING DURING THE PAST DECADES?? I THINK MED SCHOOL SHOULD ACCEPT STUDENTS BASED ON THEIR GENDER AND GRADES... NOT GRADES ALONE.
27

McX,

04/04/2008 18:09:30
Some of my favourite pornno flickers involve lady doctors and nurses in uniform...
28

Charles Linskaill,

Edinburgh 04/04/2008 20:52:44
GOD'S SAKE! here is a few!!




Joy Adamson



Clara Barton



Elizabeth Blackwell



Rachel Carson



Marie Curie



Gertrude Belle Elion



Jane Goodall



Alice Hamilton



Hildegard of Bingen



Grace Hopper



Karen Horney



Hypatia



Elisabeth Kubler-Ross



Mary Leakey



Myra Adele Logan



Barbara McClintock



Margaret Mead



Lise Meitner



Maria Sibylla Merian



Maria Mitchell



Florence Nightingale



Antonia Novello



Dixie Lee Ray



Ellen Richards



Sally Ride



Florence Sabin



Margaret Sanger



Chien Shiung Wu

29

Charles Linskaill,

Edinburgh 04/04/2008 20:56:01
NOW PLEASE REFRAIN FROM THE WOMEN,,'BASHING'!
30

Charles Linskaill,

Edinburgh 04/04/2008 21:00:32
BW @#26,

I will deal with you later!
re:...."have him sectioned"

If I told you my week, you might be doing me a 'Favour'!

:-(((

31

Horrible Cankers at the Cyber Shebeen,

04/04/2008 21:38:34
32...Right sunshine I'l give you two but you can google the rest..not that you will..

Ada Lovelace (bled to death by her male doctors)..recognised as being responsible for the first computer programme

Rear Admiral Grace Hopper..American computer Scientist who developed the first compiler for a computer programming language..

32

Horrible Cankers at the Cyber Shebeen,

04/04/2008 21:47:22
Battery container, car heater, disposable mobile phone, cooking stove, circular saw, electric hot water heater,elevated railway, fire escape, geobond, life raft, refrigerator, Kevlar and cans that you tip your beans out of mate...all invented by women..;D
33

Horrible Cankers at the Cyber Shebeen,

04/04/2008 21:54:37
30...what were women doing in the past decades?....are you brain dead or what?...up until the 1960's women were only seen as fit to pop out rug rats, rear them and see to their husbands sexual needs whilst cleaning the bog..john to you....

In the 1970's when I attended secondary school I was made to cut photos of babies out of magazines and paste them into a scrap book, whilst the boys had woodwork, metalwork and other more useful practical studies....

Remember, the medical field and science was not seen as being a fit area for a woman to study in, and women were most certainly not encouraged to enter this type of career...

Does that not compute with you Einstein?....a bliddy hauf wit wid be able tae tell ye that!
34

Charles Linskaill,

Edinburgh 04/04/2008 22:15:50
'AYE' You tell them!...Cankers at the Cyber Shebeen,!

It goes on don't it,? (and this being MVIII and all that)

The ....'Chauvinist'!....'How Sad'!
35

WOMENNOTINMEDICINE,

Utah, USA 04/04/2008 22:24:50
Post 37: Refrigerator (MEN INVENTIONS): link: http://www.ideafinder.com/history/inventions/refrigerator.htm

Water heater (MEN INVENTIONS): link: http://inventors.about.com/library/inventors/blwaterheater.htm

Circular saw (MEN INVENTIONS): link: http://inventors.about.com/library/inventors/bltools.htm

MOBILE PHONE (MEN INVENTIONS)
GLASS (MEN INVENTIONS)
MIRROR (MEN INVENTIONS)

ONLY KEVLAR WAS "DISCOVERED" NOT INVENTED BY WOMEN IN A CHEMISTRY LAB. KEVLAR CHEMISTRY NAME IS: poly paraphenylene terephthalamide

I JUST TELL YOU THE FACTS. I AM NOT DISCRIMINATING WOMEN. BUT I STRONGLY SUGGEST THE MED SCHOOL TO RE-CONSIDER THE ADMISSION POLICY IS BASED ON GENDER AND GRADES, NOT BASED ON GRADES ONLY.

IF WOMEN ARE SO SMART, THEN THEY SHOULD INVENT ROCKETS, GUNS, MIRROR, REFRIGERATOR, VACCINATION, RUBBER TIRES, LIGHT BULB, COMPASS, PAPER, TRAIN, MICROWAVE, BALLON, CAR, CONTRACEPTIVE PILLS, etc. IN THE PAST. NOT LEAVING THESE INVENTION JOBS TO MEN.
36

Horrible Cankers at the Cyber Shebeen,

04/04/2008 23:14:43
Stephanie Kwolek INVENTED Kevlar via her research in chemical compounds for DuPont...it was patented (as inventions are) by her in 1966...

Regrigerator - Florence Parpart

Electric Water Heater - Ida Forbes

Circular Saw - Tabitha Babbit

Women are smart that is why they did not invent rockets and guns mate...
37

Horrible Cankers at the Cyber Shebeen,

04/04/2008 23:38:00
Aye well he wis smart fir stickin it where he shouldnae eh?...wis it jist 'es thumb like?.. :D
38

Charles Linskaill,

Edinburgh 04/04/2008 23:54:12
JayDeeTee, I wasn't getting at you at-all, and further more, I dont need to "point score with women", the DYW is quite 'more than enough' for me, :-))
39

Charles Linskaill,

Edinburgh 05/04/2008 00:36:45
My,, "Darling...Young...Wife"
40

Charles Linskaill,

Edinburgh 05/04/2008 00:40:12
Or my Suzanne, you know something,?

NO!

OK!

I 'woke-up' this morning and thought,

'What a lucky Man I am' to wake-up with DYW beside me!

She looked,, just beautiful!
41

Charles Linskaill,

Edinburgh 05/04/2008 00:41:02
Not Bad after 10 years together!..'HUH',?
42

Horrible Cankers at the Cyber Shebeen,

05/04/2008 00:53:14
46...Stop sniffin glue...

Charles you are a hopeless romantic and honestly, you have to win the 'Mushiest man of the year' award...mibbe its time tae pit doon the Sherry eh sweetheart?
43

Charles Linskaill,

Edinburgh 05/04/2008 01:09:37
HC, NO Sherry, not that it my favourite anyhow!

Take a look at today's Health Page in this Paper on

"Anxiety" I cant have a 'drop' of the good golden brew!
44

Charles Linskaill,

Edinburgh 05/04/2008 01:13:32
"Hopeless Romantic"

'AYE' that's me OK!

NO WONDER OUR BOY WONDER,

Wants me Sectioned!

He is ...Sooooooo..'Jealous'..:-DD

 

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