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A story every parent should read: 100 Scots children a week in A&E, drunk on about 6 pints each, aged as young as 8

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Published Date: 01 May 2008
IN THE beds of the emergency departments where he has worked for more than 20 years, Dr Bill Morrison has seen primary-school children unconscious through alcohol, caked in their own waste and bearing wounds from falling as their legs gave way.
Year on year, he has seen more and more NHS resources devoted to ensuring these pre-teens do not choke to death on their own vomit.

Yesterday, he unveiled the findings of an investigation into the effects of Scotland's "bevvy culture" on its emergency rooms – and warned the country was facing "social meltdown" in ten years.

In the six-week period of the study, almost 650 youngsters were admitted to emergency departments, the youngest of them only eight years old.

Many had also taken illegal drugs – some solely with the intention of harming themselves – and about a quarter had been assaulted.

"We are greatly concerned about drinking in young people," said Dr Morrison. "There are children turning up intoxicated that can range from silly behaviour to those who are so unconscious with alcohol they are in danger of aspirating – vomiting, getting vomit into their lungs and dying. We are storing up enormous problems. I don't think we can underestimate it."

The report, from NHS Quality Improvement Scotland, shows only the tip of the iceberg of under-age drinking.

In December, The Scotsman revealed that more than 2,000 youngsters had been arrested for being drunk and incapable in public. This week, we told how police in West Lothian were dealing with 12-year-olds swigging alcohol at four in the afternoon.

The new work is aimed at informing government policy on alcohol in an attempt to reverse an apparent decline in which the country finds itself. Last night, alcohol and child-welfare experts called its findings "shocking".

In his time at Ninewells Hospital, Dundee, Dr Morrison has seen teenage drunks in all stages of intoxication – from "giggly and silly", through abusive, to close to death. "They need the same management as someone who has come in poisoned from prescription medication," he said.

"They need close monitoring. They may need intubating (the insertion of a tube]. Usually, at this stage, they're unconscious. They have fallen over, probably injured themselves, and are incapable of spontaneous movement."

Many do not learn their lesson. In the study, about two per cent of the youngsters attended A&E more than once, indicating a deeper-seated problem than an accidental "experiment". Ten per cent of the total also had alcohol-related issues in their medical history.

Dr Morrison said the report was "damning" and he hoped it would highlight the situation to policymakers. "I have been a consultant in A&E for more than 15 years and my position is we are seeing more alcohol-related problems, and we are certainly seeing more problems in young people," he said.

"Why? I wish I could answer that. I suspect greater availability, greater freedom on the part of children, that alcohol is relatively cheaper – there are a number of factors which have contributed, or possibly contributed, to this. I suspect we are seeing patterns of behaviour likely to become reinforced unless we take serious action.

"I think there's a trend for certain groups of children to engage in repeat behaviour and we need to break that. I think we are looking at patterns of alcohol activity being established early."

The average child admitted to hospital through alcohol will have drunk 13 units – equivalent to over six pints.

In the report, almost half of the children (48 per cent) were there because they had suffered trauma – an assault or an accident – while 42 per cent attended solely because they were intoxicated. The older the child, the more likely they were to be there because of trauma.

The vast majority of youngsters were discharged from the emergency department within four hours, but 22 per cent were sent on to other wards – the psychiatric ward in many cases. Dr Morrison

said poor parenting was a factor in some, although not all, cases – and there was a genetic correlation between parent-and-child alcohol abuse.

The report – one of five looking at the effect alcohol has on A&E departments – has made a series of recommendations for the Scottish Government.

Dr Morrison said data collection needed to be improved, along with communication between different bodies, such as police and hospitals. He also said that services available after discharge from A&E, such as counselling, needed to be improved and perhaps bolstered by investment.

Jack Law, the chief executive of Alcohol Focus Scotland, said it was "very concerning" that so many children needed hospital treatment because of alcohol, and particularly shocking that children as young as eight were involved.

"Children's bodies aren't developed enough to cope with alcohol, so smaller amounts can lead to being dangerously drunk quite quickly," he said. "We must introduce more effective prevention and education measures, combined with stricter enforcement of the laws."

Anne Houston, the chief executive of charity Children 1st, said the number of youngsters drinking to excess was "really concerning". She continued: "As well as damaging their health, being under the influence of alcohol leaves young people more at risk of harm.

"We must involve children and young people in exploring why they feel the need to drink in the first place. We also need to take a hard look at the culture in Scotland, where drinking to excess is seen as socially acceptable."

Shona Robison, the public health minister, said: "One young person attending an emergency department because of alcohol misuse is one too many. We must get better at diverting young people from misusing alcohol."

She said efforts included cracking down on rogue retailers who sold to under-age drinkers, while alcohol education in schools was also being strengthened.

>BULLETS
THE DAMNING STATISTICS

8 Age of the youngest patient treated during the audit where alcohol was a factor

633 Youngsters aged between 13 and 17 treated in A&E during the audit where alcohol was a factor

15 Youngsters aged between 8 and 12 treated at A&E during the audit where alcohol was a factor

22 Percentage of youngsters who had also taken illegal drugs in the previous 24 hours

16 Most common age for youngsters to be admitted in an alcohol-related case

77 Assaults involving alcohol are dealt with daily in Scotland's A&Es


Page 1 of 1

 
1

Conan the Librarian™,

01/05/2008 00:05:04
"plus ca change, plus c'est la meme chose"

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/1/15/GinLane.jpg
2

Charles Linskaill,

Edinburgh 01/05/2008 00:20:37

Very good Conan, @#1,

Where did you find that,..'Rabble' from,?

As for the,..'Stats' in the article, can we have that in 'percentages'?

It might..,'Paint a different Story' as in Bad Parenting!
3

Conan the Librarian™,

01/05/2008 00:35:39
2
Hi Charles, did you know the nursery rhyme Pop goes the Weasel was about the evils of(untaxed)booze?
Hogarth did the "rabble"


http://www.l.u-tokyo.ac.jp/~kondo/Hg_BeerSt.jpg
4

Charles Linskaill,

Edinburgh 01/05/2008 00:56:11

3

Conan, I did not know about the origin of,..

'Pop goes the Weasel'

How about strangely enough!, the 'Chat' at the local Bank today was,...

"Atishoo! Atishoo! We all fall down!"

Yep related to the,..'Great Plague' I think,?

But this is a 'Plague' also, and yes they,

'All Fall Down'!

5

Charles Linskaill,

Edinburgh 01/05/2008 00:59:28

It must be!,..'NURSERY TIME'..on here, thats the Answer to the Problem!

'Teach them Young'
6

Conan the Librarian™,

01/05/2008 01:03:08
5
Like the French, watered wine at meals, whether they want it or not...
7

Charles Linskaill,

Edinburgh 01/05/2008 01:28:08
6
Conan, on a last note to your last comment,

"Like the French, watered wine at meals, whether they want it or not"

Both my Daughters were allowed a, 'little drink' containing Alcohol, at the 'dinner table' on special occasions, ie Christmas Day etc.

I think if I remember correctly they were about 10years old before the offered drink!

'Slow sipps' and 'YUK' was the end result! :-)

And we never had any problems with either of them! ever!

Think its all a matter of,,'Sensibility'

Take the, 'Don't care Less' attitude, you will have problems!

Take the, Mummy and Daddy are 'Prudes' attitude,..

Never letting their Children talk about a Subject or finding their own feet in Life,

Yes! then that's when,..'Problems Arise'!
8

Charles Linskaill,

Edinburgh 01/05/2008 01:36:55
re; #6 correction,

"I think if I remember correctly they were about 10years old before the offered drink!"

Cant remember correctly atall..D'oh!, in that post,

Infact it was at about 12years old, not 10.
9

Charles Linskaill,

Edinburgh 01/05/2008 01:40:50
D'oh! re; #7, it should be! and I should be in bed!

'nite nite'
10

Alan Reid,

NZ 01/05/2008 02:00:11
Scum will breed scum, time to cut child care benfit. If having brats is another way of getting money off the "bru" it should be cut. These kids parents have NO interest what their kids get up to.
And if they get into trouble with the law, it's the usual "my wee laddie wid'na dee that".
No wonder Scotland as a country f@cked. The SNP really have to come down hard on this, howver I guess some will see it as their right to screw the system.
11

Alan Reid,

NZ 01/05/2008 02:01:54
Ooops! meant, Benefit.
12

,

01/05/2008 06:38:17
Comment Removed By Administrator
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13

Eckyboo,

Edinburgh 01/05/2008 06:47:49
#12 I agree with you; why are the parents not held responsible?
14

,

01/05/2008 07:21:21
Comment Removed By Administrator
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15

SamSung,

01/05/2008 07:43:11
when i was at High School,many years ago.we had a visit from Heriot Watt Uni folks who were doing a survey on the drinking and drugging habits of teenagers.

i did not realise,until we got the results back,how many of my fellow pupils were junkies or doing 2-3 bottles of vodka every day.

kids tell lies.........

a few may be getting hammered and doing drugs,but most aint.

it is the way it has always been,and always will be.

Folks were talking about excessive drinking way back in the 1800's,not anything new.

Instead of raising taxes on alcohol,politicians should maybe wonder why so many folks feel the need to escape from mundanity for a wee while.

eg.Spiraling mortgages,food prices,petrol prices,unsecure jobs,low pay.........etc.
16

Xena - Warrior Princess,

01/05/2008 08:21:04
Sam I agree, the above must be paragons of virtue, never done a wrong thing in their miserable lives, and this gives them the right to sit in judgement of everyone else. It is the politicians who created this situation, whole families who have never worked a day in their life, no ambition other than to draw the dole, and their children grow up with the same ethos.
17

Boy Wonder,

01/05/2008 08:22:20
I'd like to see the stats fot the backgrounds of these kids. How many come from working (or non-working) class areas where the hope has been crushed out of them since BT (before Thatcher)? How many are from families with dead-end prospects, living in areas of the same people with the same problems? Like Niddrie, Pilton, Wester Hailes?? What's the comparison with the more affluent areas like Barnton, Blackhall, Corstorphine and similar areas up and down the country?

I suspect that's a study needing done. But not a long-term one!
18

thinking,

Scotland 01/05/2008 08:34:28
#18
It may be that this is more related to the breakdown of the family. This affects all classes. Just look in the news to see the well heeled kids from broken homes who are lost on drink and drugs. The poorer classes have the same problems when the family breaks up, it just doesn't get reported.
19

Toast,

01/05/2008 08:40:03
After years of New labour and with Brown as PM you can't blame them turning to drink,these are the ones that have figured out that under the above they have no future.
20

TheFife,

Beverly Hills 01/05/2008 08:40:49
First:
#3
Conan:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pop_Goes_the_Weasel
This shows the rhyme to be rather more complicated and it is not "about" alcohol.

Second:
agreeing with #16
This abusive behaviour does not occur in a vacuum.

Psychologically, it is well known that the desire to escape starts with something to escape from.

When you are in a society with no viable future, little optimism, bleak prospects of reward for creativity... one tends to say chuck it all and pass the pint.

The answer is not to "tax" the alcohol problem away. We have to address ourselves to the root problems in our society that leads people to take the big dive and chuck it all.

Look around you, folks! Once you actually see what's going on, the answers will start to come to you. Are we creating a society with a future our youngsters will want to live in? The problem's not on their shoulders, but ours.

And don't look to the government for the answer, they're half the problem!



21

Calum Crubag,

01/05/2008 08:46:49
So why is Brown criminalising cannibis?

Alcohol and tobacco use/abuse is far more widespread and damaging. Maybe it's because they're profitable and the outraged Daily Mail readers actually LIKE their alcohol too?
22

Calum Crubag,

01/05/2008 08:48:44
#22 Grushka - poor? Why then do the 'middle-class' schools like Boroughmuir and Gillespies have worse drug (of all kinds) problems than the likes of Castlebrae?
23

paulr,

edinburgh 01/05/2008 09:03:01
The decay of the family is without doubt a contributory factor but the rise of the moral minority, the PC brigade, the touchy feelie liberal dogooders are an even larger and much more insidious factor as our successive governments bow to pressure from the groups of control freaks.
Whats the point in talking about parental control?
If the parents care about their children they cannot discipline them on pain of prosecution, as it infringes the childs human rights to be disciplined in any way, no telling off, no grounding them.
24

Alan B,

01/05/2008 09:15:58
labours legacy to scotland
25

hibbyspurs,

01/05/2008 09:22:19
#24

Ahhh but you see the difference at Boroughmuir & Gillespies compared to Castlebrae is that the kids there can afford it more easily & of course in their case its just "experimenting" & "High jinx"..... Naturally if a pupil at Castlebrae does the same then they are a "junkie", "ned" and its the parents faullt for being "wasters".....

Once wh establish thats its one rule for everyone, only then will the problem be addressed.

Take a look at a similar situation in adult life... a group of city bankers are snorting coke on a friday night but thats now seen by some as socially acceptable because they are responsible adults who know the risk and are just "unwinding"..... Across the room a group of unemployed or low paid people from a council estate are doing exactly the same and they're "junkie scum".... wasters not fit to be out on the streets....

Like I said one rule for some another for someone else.
26

Alternative (High Octane) Fuel Head,

Edinburgh 01/05/2008 10:04:54
Here we go with the nannies again...

Draconian enforcement
Draconian enforcement
Draconian enforcement

It solves nothing. If kids really want to get hold of booze, they will. I suspect the problem is more likely to be related to kids pinching their parents booze from home than it is related to them illegally buying it themselves, or getting their mates to buy it.

This isn't a new problem either. It has been going on for centuries. After all, its only 100 so where is the problem? The vast majority of kids DON'T get drunk so how about giving credit where credit is due?

Articles like this just seek to demonise alcohol in the same way that they have demonised tobacco and are in the process of demonising the car.

At the end of the day, this is just a storm in a teacup and we needn't get our knickers in a twist about it.
27

davydee,

Edinburgh 01/05/2008 10:08:24
I grew up in the 70s, and if a copper caught you doing something you shouldnt you got a slap.
I think the PC brigade started in the late 80s (but I could be wrong)and it has now resulted in what we are witnessing today.
I am all for looking after children and protecting them from some of the evil scum that are out there, but the Teenagers of today have no respect, or fear of anyone, and they are spiraling out of control. It is a sad world we live in when you become nervous just at the site of a group of teenagers when out walking, but this is what the Do Gooders have created by taking away discipline for young children.
28

Chris.J,

Edinburgh 01/05/2008 10:11:05
So finally this rag wakes up to the fact that underage drinking is a problem... So maybe now they'll drop the "killjoy Kenny" bile and support the SNP in trying to do something positive on this issue.
29

Keir Hardie,

Inverness 01/05/2008 10:18:15
#25 I think you want the Daily Mail mate, this is The Scotsman.
30

Neutral Jim,

Edinburgh 01/05/2008 10:24:38
Calum, do you have any stats to back that up, it's a genuine question, I'm a parent with children approaching that age.

Hibbyspur, I agree with you up to a point but if people can afford their drugs then generally there isn't a problem, if they need to resort to crime to feed their habit then it becomes a problem for the rest of us.
31

Amburno,

01/05/2008 10:33:36
We're dealing with very intelligent beings here, kids are way smarter than any adult...I don't know one child that has a job or children.

Yup, way smarter than the average bear, especially when they have such an active social life.
32

Traveller,

Fife/Edinburgh 01/05/2008 10:35:59
No. 34
I think it is not just that in many cases the parents or parent are at work but that even when they are at home they cannot cope by reason of their own childhood experiences before supports were in place to help them or because they then turn to drink, drugs or heaven forbid going out themselves.

When in the last calendar year 100,000 children in Scotland were referred to the Childrens Reporter and 42,000 resulted in Childrens Hearings.. there are many problems at work here. But I must say over the last 3 years the number of cases I have heard where alchohol plays a major part in the issues for the kids or the parents is definitely around 80%.
33

Old Cartha Boy,

01/05/2008 10:48:34
Did the report signify any particular social class of child who is suffering from alcohol related problems? Or should we just guess....

34

Nellie,

Liverpool 01/05/2008 10:55:22
#2 Charles, I think stats are not relevant. 1% or 001%, it isn't good that so many children are getting drunk. Perhaps what is relevant is to see stats that could indicate if the problem really is growing.
# Teach them young? I tried that with one of my boys - let him sip some bitter beer. "Mmmm- NICE!" he said! Later drinking some Balvenie he asked to try it. Gave him a tiny sip, thinking this could put him off for Life. Same response as for the bitter beer! I think he may be a reincarnated publican!
#12 & #14. When I was 8 years old my parents let me play in the street and go off cycling for miles with my friends and brother, with no parental supervision. We didn't smoke of drink. Just healthy trips out which made us more independent as well as help our social skills and learn more about the World. Our parents may have worried but they trusted us. Now, most parents molly coddle their kids, hiding them away from an imaginary wicked world as if there is a paedo or murdered on every street corner, altho records show crimes of violence and abuse are not really worse now than 100 years ago. So, we either let them have some rope or we tie them up with it! If we let them have as much rope as we had when we were kids, which is mostly good for them, it isn't risk free. They can get into trouble but no more so than when I was a kid. It probably won't happen but it might. Those parents were/are unlucky. Should they be punished for that? If they are genuinely neglectful, yes. But if they are just trying to be good parents by allowing their kids to spread their wings, then IMO most certainly not. Life is full of risks. We cannot expect our children to grow if they are kept free of risk.
35

emax,

01/05/2008 11:01:21
z dobrobytu zasilkowego poprzewracalo sie w dupach ;)
36

parks is colin nish,

cape town 01/05/2008 11:33:18
well said no *38
Here in s africa kids are far more independant in fact my 3 and 6 year old are outside playing rugby with about 12 other kids of all ages enjoying themselves the older kids here are taught respect for all adults and at their school they respect teachers. Where we live if kids were out drinking or causing trouble they would get a clout round the ear and taken home where they will get another one.
Shame about the government and power cuts but you can't have everything
37

Keep Scotland Green,

Doune 01/05/2008 11:47:28
Underage drinking is just an extension of the binge culture we have in Scotland and the UK as a whole. Until we make it socially unacceptable (in the same way that drink driving now is) to stagger down a street after a night out, then this problem will continue. We are all part of the problem. How many of us are guilty of starting a funny story with, "I had had a bit too much to drink...." and people invariably laugh. Imagine now someone saying, "I drank a few pints and was driving home..." there would be immediate condemnation. It is that peer control that we need to instill in all of us and by doing so, our children will follow our example. This is why the continent is so different to the UK. They do not tolerate anti-social and drunken behaviour, so people learn to drink responsibly.
38

Keep Scotland Green,

Doune 01/05/2008 11:48:01
The only drunken yobs you see on the streets in Europe are from the UK.
39

Vigilant Watcher,

Bo'ness 01/05/2008 12:01:33
Dismissing the usual 'ranters' what are the facts. We are not given them all.

Over what dates, season, etc was the 6-week of data collected. Without knowing more of the criteria of the study can we extrapolate the figures.

Taking the figures quoted, with the limitations of the available data, I estimate that over a 12 month period the numbers amount to approx 5616.

And, from the 2001 census the number of children falling into the age criteria, again assuming that 8 is the lower end of the range and not an isolated case, the total no of children between was 643,046.

As a % of children, in any one year, again assuming a relatively constant birth rate, the figure is 8.7.

Given, therefore, that it means approx 92% of children are not in involved in the "bevvy culture" we don't want or need any extreme knee-jerking by either the chattering classes on these forums or our esteemed politicians.

The situation needs to be addressed, if only to minimise the health hazards of those involved, but we shouldn't lose sight of reality.
40

sweet76,

01/05/2008 12:13:29
I was always under the impression that if you called the fire service because of flooding, they would charge you for the work as it isn't apart of thier 'core activities' i.e. not putting out fires. Why doesn't the NHS charge for housing drunks for the evening?
41

Flower of Scotland,

Glasgow 01/05/2008 12:22:03
#44 Sweet. Well said! The time has now come for the parents of these badly brough up brats to PAY UP,and not expect the hard pressed taxpayer,of which I am one,to foot the bill for their opting out of parenting.
42

Calum Crubag,

01/05/2008 12:35:12
Paul R #25 - The family? How about poor model families like Tony Blair's and the Windsors? Prince Harry is infamous. One of Blair's sons had problems with the polis and drink too.

43

Calum Crubag,

01/05/2008 12:38:16
#33 Neutral Jim - there are no stats. But if you speak to teachers at both schools and some parents, then you'll get the story. Kids in Craigmillar have, to an extent, seen the problems caused by druguse. The middle-class kids are the ones with money who want to be 'rebellious' or 'cool' and experiment before going on to Uni.

Just like David Cameron did - so the 'poor broken family' argument doesn't really wash. It's acroos the board.
44

,

01/05/2008 12:45:36
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45

,

01/05/2008 12:55:34
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46

Smutley,

Embra 01/05/2008 13:10:30
Vigilant watcher: your maths are out by an order of magnitude. It's 0.87% not 8.7%. Which, by your reasoning, implies that 99.13% of kids are not getting hammered and ending up in A&E.

As Vincent notes, the complete failure of this article to put the numbers into any kind of baseline context betrays laziness and ineptitude.
47

emax,

01/05/2008 13:13:06
in my home city, wroclaw, poland, pickled people from uk are banned from many pubs and restaurants. the problem is that many of people got drunk, but mostly british behave like animals while drunk.
apart from that you are cool:)
48

JT,

01/05/2008 13:15:30
When you have role models such as football players,pop stars and tv presenters and members of the royal family who really should know better being captured falling out of clubs and pubs out of their tree, no wonder some kids see that as acceptable behaviour. When I was a teenager in the mid 80s, there were two groups those who hung around, having a bottle of white lightning cider (which i think can now be used as anti freeze), getting into a wee bit of bother and those who couldnt be bothered hanging around in the cold and rain. Nowadays alcohol is easier to get, less expensive and its not socially unacceptable to be constantly out of your tree.
49

,

01/05/2008 13:36:44
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50

EK,

Edinburgh 01/05/2008 14:04:21
Please stop giving excuses for bad, antisocial behaviour - all throughout the world people live in grinding poverty with no hope and they do not behave like the British and Scottish getting drunk and causing vandalism.

In this country, social standards and family life has plummeted to new depths of depravity. People drinking alcohol at 10 - 17 years old? Don't the hildren and their "parents" know how harmful it is to their health? Then they occupy the time of the police, medical staff and so on, to get them sober and tend to their self-inflicted injuries? Think of the damage they cause to the streets of our towns - broken glass, vomit, urine, graffiti, intimidating behaviour to name a few.

We pay the council and the government to work for the good of the whole society. But we are also partly responsible for demanding from our citizens a decent standard of behaviour.

I feel the Uk and Scotland is resting on its laurels - we live in an awful degenerate society where no one cares any more. We'll fail to attract tourists or business if it carries on like this.

Attitudes must change. Stop making excuses for bad behaviour, all you do-gooders. Find a way, politicians and people in power to punish the behaviour and enforce the laws. Far too many people are sitting in offices pushing paper.
51

Brother Walfrid,

01/05/2008 14:42:21
Women with children should not work.
Women have to make a choice : if they want to have a career, then that's fine, but if they decide to have children, then the children become the number 1 priority.

End of story.
52

BenTen,

01/05/2008 15:27:11
its not just about drink - i started oing to the pub as a 15 year old. i was from a working class background while some of my cohorts were from very wealthy parents. we enjoyed a few pints but we knew how to behave and were held accountable if anyone got out of hand - which rarely happened. today's youngsters are not thugs and yobs because they drink they are thugs and yobs who drink and who are not held accountable for their actions
53

Corky,

01/05/2008 15:44:11
EK - speak for yourself. None of my friends behave like that and I mean NONE - NOT ONE - THAT'S 80 OR 90 YOUNGSTERS. I'm getting fed up with old codgers like you doing us down all the time.

None of us excuses bad, antisocial behaviour. None of us cause vandalism.

My social standards and family life has not plummeted to new depths of depravity. My parents know how harmful alcohol is to their health? I don't occupy the time of the police, medical staff and so on, to get me sober and the only 'self inflicted' injuries I get are on the Rugby Field. I don't cause damage to the streets of our towns - broken glass, vomit, urine, graffiti, and I don't intimidate.

You pay the council and the government to work for the good of the whole society and I'm grateful.

You may feel the Uk and Scotland is resting on its laurels - and you may live in an awful degenerate society where no one cares any more - I DON'T.

btw - my Dad is a do-gooder sitting in an office pushing paper.

Vincent, Smutley and Vigilante Watcher are right - the image of the vast majority of young kids is being distorted by crappy little articles like this.

I've got revision to do - bye!
54

Jambo-ree,

01/05/2008 16:22:25
#56 I'd agree with you. I was always taught that alcohol does not create a state of mind and all it can do is to amplify an existing state of mind. So if you're out for laugh alcohol can help; if you're depressed then drink will drive you deeper. If you're a ned who is naturally violent then alcohol will lead to fights.

Trouble as I see it is down to the increasing tendency for kids not to be given to mark in the sand over their behaviour and kids do need to know their boundaries - this actually makes them feel more secure. I know my two were not total angels when they were going through their teens and would occasionally go a bit astray but that was just part of the growing up process and at least they did have the decency to be shamefaced about it later.

It is still a minority, but a growning one, who effectively are insecure feral children allowed to run wild with the tacit approval of their so-called legal guardians. There is no common decency in them, and absolutely no chance of their being shamefaced about anything.
55

Vigilant Watcher,

Bo'ness 01/05/2008 17:49:24
Thanks Smutley; a slip of the finger! By an order of magnitude, makes the point even more.
56

Black Beard,

01/05/2008 17:55:42
Dadgummit, not another societal meltdown. This must be the 5th this year.

My take? Nothing new under the sun.
57

Voldemort,

Edinburgh 01/05/2008 18:44:45
Kids have always boozed - it is part of growing up! I'm all for giving my kid some table wine (at the table!) and a glass of something when they are with adults in a social environment that way it is not taboo.

The main thing is lack of parental control and lack of a firm hand in the home and naff all discipline at school. Nobody seems to have added two and two together yet but when the belt was removed from school and Sp@nking (can't beleive they banned this word in the Scotsman!) was banned. Teacher assault and abuse has soared and parents have been unable to control their kids.

The reason a kid does not put their hand on the oven twice is because it hurts and they LEARN from that! You can tell them not to put their hand on the oven but they have pretty much got to learn for themselves. Similarly if you tell them not to go out drinking with their mates and vandalise stuff then they probably will unless your words are backed up with a swift clout across the lug if they dare disobey!

The PC and the 'fluffy bunny don't even raise your voice to the poor little lamb' Brigades are ENTIRELY responsible for the lack of discipline in this country and the government should utterly ashamed of themselves that a few poisoned control freaks or damaged individuals have managed to make their own unworkable and prejudiced view on bringing up children carte blanche for everyone else!!


58

Caora Dubh,

Croit sheasgair 01/05/2008 19:23:05
Right now there is little unemployment, and there are few families in which one parent is free to look after the children after school. In any case children like going out together and having fun. Despite some youth groups (usually religiously based) we've done much too little to fill the free time of children and teenagers with activities that are exciting and constructive. And yes, such activities involve some risk, but much less than taking drugs (including alcohol). So we need youth clubs that will teach our youngsters the basics of rock climbing, sailing, martial arts, ice skating, horse riding, target shooting etc. and even such matters as household maintenance and civil defence. I want a Scotland that is active, alert, and resourceful.
59

Caora Dubh,

Croit sheasgair 01/05/2008 19:26:28
And yes, it would have been worth raising community tax by the inflation rate this year in order to help finance youth groups.
60

,

01/05/2008 20:23:00
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
61

indune1,

Canada 01/05/2008 21:28:26
38 - Nellie - well said.
62

Kitti Kat,

PA 01/05/2008 21:48:09
where are the parents or guardians of these kids? ARe they also drunk or drugged uip? The parents of the kids should be sent to classes, fined, and have supervision. Of course one will say that the social services are up to their eyes with cases but perhaps if the parents are hit in the picketbook along with parenting classes it might help. Then again, maybe not.
63

Tobe ornot,

01/05/2008 23:16:28
#2 - do we really need %'s? The plain fact is that it is happening!!!
64

Girlfriend,

Seattle 02/05/2008 02:05:09
Witnassing some of the hovels in the inner-cities of Glasgow and Edinburgh, on my visits to Scotland, should I have the misfortune to grow up in such pre-Victorian ghetos I too would drink, and drink, and drink!
65

pachyderm,

glesca 02/05/2008 08:10:44
see thae effin weans-ye cannae keep up wi' them!
66

Voldemort,

Edinburgh 02/05/2008 11:12:27
62 - Please don't talk about raising Community Charge - it just encourages them! Instead talk about firing the layabouts with made up jobs in the council so they can save our hard earned cash THEN direct more resource to areas that count ... I love your idea of getting more money to projects that help kids do something productive and fun with their time. They certainly need direction which they are not getting from their parents or their schools.

If Councils were even half efficient we would not need to see a rise in CT for the next Ten years! With the savings that could be made from cutting out the deadwood and pointless 'jobs for the boys', front line services would improve instead of our tax money getting eaten by the grotesquely bloated and self centered ranks of administration before it gets back to the front line services they are supposed to care about.
67

voltaire's janny,

02/05/2008 14:47:22
What a disgrace! When I was fourteen we had to walk miles to engage in our under-age drinking. Two cans of Cally Special (8 units?)was enough for three or four of us to get bladdered.

Now it takes but a short stagger tae the offae, likely as not a ScotMid, and it needs a whopping' 21 units each tae get a buzz.

That's shocking. What is the government doing about this appalling inflation? Is there a research program to reduce tolerance to bevvy so our weans can get legless on less?

If they have to keep spending their school attendance allowance on booze, surely other things will give. Imagine the shame of having to wear a baseball cap with the peak at the front, or tracky bottoms wi' nae stripes. They'll be rationing Burberry next.
68

G Man542,

Midlothian 04/05/2008 12:36:07
#52 Foo.

I'm 20, work for the NHS in two jobs and enjoy a few drinks now and then.

If you rase the age to 25 are you going to put me in a boarding school? are you going to remove me from my job in the NHS and cause yet more strain on the service? If the age increased i would not stop drinking i'll be adding the the stats making the problem look worse when in truth it wouldn't be.

Lets deal with the problem with LAWS THAT WE HAVE ALREADY!!!!!! arrest and charge the kids that drink underage and bill the parents for the cost and time of staff of both the Police and NHS.

 

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