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Bullet train and road toll revolution

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Published Date: 03 December 2006
A REVOLUTION in Scotland's overloaded and outdated transport network is being planned by ministers, with the introduction of bullet trains and controversial road tolls.
Rail journey times between Glasgow and Edinburgh will be slashed to 30 minutes under the ambitious proposals, which would also see French-style TGV trains travel from Scotland to London in just two and a half hours.

Last night opposition politicians and transport experts warned "starstruck" ministers were in danger of squandering billions on a public transport pipe dream while penalising motorists with stealth taxes.

The sweeping reforms to Scotland's road and rail system will be laid out on Tuesday when the Scottish Executive publishes its long-awaited national transport strategy.

Transport minister Tavish Scott will commit the Scottish Executive to a bullet train project between Edinburgh and Glasgow, arguing that Scotland's two main cities need to be better linked to drive the economy. At present, most trains take nearly an hour.

At the same time, Scott is expected to support a new high-speed London-Scotland link in the belief that millions of passengers could be persuaded to travel by rail rather than by environmentally damaging aeroplanes.

Scottish ministers will also throw their weight behind a new national road pricing scheme, which could see motorists charged up to 80p a kilometre on Scotland's busiest routes.

The strategy comes in the wake of the report to the Treasury by former British Airways chief executive Sir Rod Eddington last week, in which he, too, called for a new road pricing scheme to prevent Britain from a future of gridlock.

Eddington backed away from new 'mega-projects' - such as new rail routes - warning they may not be cost-effective. But Scottish ministers say such views are "unambitious" and are pledging to press ahead.

A source close to Scott said last night: "This is the first attempt to map out what our future needs are and to set the framework for Scotland's transport."

Officials also said that the Scottish Executive would now be lobbying for a high-speed north-south link modelled either on the TGV network in France or the high-tech 300mph Maglev trains in Shanghai, which levitate above a magnetic track.

The source went on: "In 2004-05, there were four million people on flights between London and Scotland and only one million on the rail. Tavish wants that the other way round."

Scottish ministers also say that, if the UK government delays, it will press ahead with its own road-charging scheme. One proposal is for all cars to be fitted with sat-nav units which will charge motorists for the type of road they drive on, and the time of day they use it.

But Eddington sounded a warning note over the London-Scotland link last night. "Don't be starstruck by large-scale projects. My concern about Maglev is that it is untried and untested. Clearly the north-south corridor is important. The question is: does it need to be reinforced? Do you want to spend £30bn for a journey like that?"

SNP transport spokesman Fergus Ewing said: "After eight years of neglect by the Labour-Lib Dem Executive it is time they realise that they must invest now in Scotland's transport infrastructure to help protect the country's economy and to improve life for its commuters."

David Davidson, transport spokesman for the Tories, said: "They will have to deal with the M8. It needs widening because you have got both road freight and passengers. The question of the A9 also needs examining."

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1

Abel Magwitch,

03/12/2006 02:12:23

This all smells strongly of the forthcoming election. Certainly there are problems with transport in Scotland, but there is no magic bullet -- or bullet train for that matter.

Energy is getting scarce and expensive; transport is getting expensive and also complicated as security and safety concerns grow. On the other hand electronic communications are getting better all the time. More and more of us are teleconferencing and shopping on line. Perhaps it is time for another look at that old government slogan from the 1940s, "is your journey really necessary?" It may have to be brought back when oil gets to $200 per barrel.

2

Navvy,

03/12/2006 02:12:31

30 minutes for 40 miles!? - Some Bullet! Other countries can do it in 15 or less. Besides bullet train is a passe 1960's term. Find some ambition and deliver a 21st century solution.

The trains must travel a full speed all the way. Scrap the tinkering work at Waverley and make a tunnel BEOLW everything but on the same alignment till it is clear of the city. All you have to do is follow the lead of many other cities around the world

3

Androsthenes,

EDINBURGH 03/12/2006 02:30:37

"Scottish ministers will also throw their weight behind a new national road pricing scheme, which could see motorists charged up to 80p a kilometre on Scotland's busiest routes."
And throw themselves out of a job!
Will this be part of McConnell's manifesto at next year's elections?

4

Guga,

Rockall 03/12/2006 03:16:34

The government are already stealing us blind with direct and indirect taxes, and the motorist is already heavily punished in this regard.

If this bunch of theives spent the money they steal from motorists on road infrastructure, we would probably have the best road system in the world. As it is, the roads are, generally, a disgrace or, in some cases, non-existent.

Any government, and that includes both Joke MacConnell and his political masters in London, that tries hammering the motorists much more, are liable to find themselves out of a job, permanently. And the same applies to their trendy mates, the Whigs.

As for this proposal of Brown's to further penalise drivers of 4x4 vehicles, it might be fine as regards the "Chelsea tractors", but it makes no allowance for those people that need 4x4's for their crofts or farms, or for the fact that their existing roads are either cart tracks or non-existent.

It is time the people of this country stood up to those theiving politicians that want to bleed us white with continual tax hikes.

5

David n' Goliath,

Edinburgh 03/12/2006 03:48:59

It is widely known that the Eddington report originally came out in favour of bullit trains between London and Scotland and that our friend Gordon in Number 11 had a quiet word, no doubt fearful of the cost.

An Anglo Scottish and E&G service like this....

http://video.google.co.uk/videoplay?docid=-10979196892473...

http://video.google.co.uk/videoplay?docid=-45482448858675...

Cuts central Edinburgh to central London time to 2 1/4 hours. That's an hour quicker than flying.

Removes 200 return short-haul flights a day.

Reduces fuel consumption - in comparison to flying short-haul by 4/5ths. (According to Eurostar)

Produces 1/10 high-altitude pollution of flying short-haul.

Reduces need for surface transfers to airports and congestion at airports. Freeing up terminal and runway capacity for international flights.

A new line relieves passenger congestion on existing (low gradient) mainline railways. This enables better and faster regional passenger services and provides valuable capacity for increasing the amount of bulk and container freight transported by rail. This is five times more fuel efficient than road haulage. It also means that more trucks are taken off the roads - reducing road congestion in the process.

After peak oil circa 2010 the improved energy efficiency cascading from the knock-on effects of a high speed line will be necessary for our economy. North sea oil production is falling at 13% per year and within a decade the UK will have to import 90% of its oil, mostly from countries who don't like us very much. They will have a monoploy - combined with shortages of supply and increased demand - prices will soar. Aviation will be hard hit because it is an intensive user of fuel, as will

6

David n' Goliath,

Edinburgh 03/12/2006 03:55:31

I forgot to add that such a high-speed line would help even out the UK economy, spread prosperity to the North and Scotland and prevent the imbalances and forces that are seeing the country pulled apart as the South East drifts toward Europe.

7

TerryinSpringburn,

glasgow 03/12/2006 04:20:24

Labour politicians pour billions into public services with little or no improvement, but they are expert at using taxpayers' money on expensive schemes to fleece those same taxpayers even more.

8

W Smith,

Middle East 03/12/2006 06:14:36

#4 and #7 Agreed!

The Scottish Executive will "press ahead with its own road-charging scheme".

(Pity they couldn't "press ahead" with the Forth bridge crossing!)

Just what the Scots need - another bloody tax!

This road-chargiing scheme is a bit like the tax on petrol in the sense it is not means tested. It has no relation to your actual income. This is going to hit the lowest earners the hardest! The car is not a 'luxury item' for most Scots especially for the people living in rural areas.

9

Mareng,

03/12/2006 06:19:25

Just another TAX.

I wonder how much effort Mr Blair and co expend - trying to get Mr bush and Co to change their lifestyles? (but of course - that wouldn't raise money to prop up the government).

Somewhere along the road on this, some government spokesman will say..... "it's all about giving the motoring public.......... choices"

Wait and see.

10

morris,

edinburgh 03/12/2006 07:36:12

Road Tolls are in the pipeline I see,but no roads are being proposed as yet !If we dont have sufficient population to justify linking our capital city by motorway to the rest of the motorway network of this United Kingdom,how come we still pay for the congestion that we have got because we never got the roads !
United Kingdom?
United in taxation certainly, but we should content ourselves with the upgrading of the A1 to dual cabbageway ( AND PAY A TOLL ON WHAT WOULD BARELY BE AN A GRADE ROAD DOWN SOUTH)
I THINK NOT!

I have been accused of thinking that independence is the answer to everything. No I dont think that strangely enough.
I do however recognise that the Unionists are far more afraid of the possibility that it is ,than I am confident of it! That should tell you volumes!
SAOR ALBA.

11

JWW,

Whitburn, West Lothian. 03/12/2006 08:25:38

Is this a sweetener for introducing road tolls?
More public money for the consultants?
Is this electioneering?
Is there any REAL chance of this being delivered?

12

Andrew the Expat,

Glasgow 03/12/2006 08:29:45

In England trains are dirty, unpunctual, overcrowded and hideously expensive. By comparison, trains in Scotland are clean, cheap, and run on time. Why the fuss?

13

Mikey,

03/12/2006 08:43:42

It would've made more sense to introduce all this 30 years ago when oil supplies were plentiful. Now, within 50 years, the oil will probably run out and we'll be left with trains that have no fuel and roads that are empty.

If this is Labour's idea of the future, then I despair!

Far better to pour this money into searching for an alternative to oil that will be cost effective and plentiful. Or do we wait (as usual) for someone else to do it?

14

Jade,

Argyll 03/12/2006 09:04:36

If this set of no-brainers think we're going to pay to travel on what are essentially ribbons of patched up potholes they are wrong. Scotland's drivers have got to stand up en masse against this TAX!

15

Royster,

03/12/2006 09:05:20

#14. Not cost effective but probably worth doing nevertheless. If you can get a TGV to London you can then plug into the European network fairly easily which makes it more attractive.

16

Ubi,

Edinburgh 03/12/2006 09:07:21

Just so much froth. The single biggest obstacle to express rail services in Scotland is - the Scottish Executive ! Take the Aberdeen to Edinburgh service, a journey which takes 2 hours 45 minutes and which can be comfortably completed by car in 30 minutes less than that. There is no express service. None. Ever. Every train stops at almost all of Stonehaven, Montrose, Arbroath, Carnoustie, Broughty Ferry, Dundee, Leuchars, Cupar, Ladybank, Markinch, Kirkaldy, Inverkeithing and Haymarket.

Why are there no express services ? Because the charter issued to the operator by the Scottish Executive forbids it.

17

Cadgers,

Perth 03/12/2006 09:14:53

"At the same time, Scott is expected to support a new high-speed London-Scotland link in the belief that millions of passengers could be persuaded to travel by rail rather than by environmentally damaging aeroplanes."
They've given up on the millions said needed to add another runway to Edinburgh airport then?

18

Thomas the Tank,

Edinburgh 03/12/2006 09:19:34

Lots of good arguments up there - nobody's mentioned the mechanics, bureaucracy and Civil Liberty nightmares of universal road tolls - a network of satelites and roadside tracking stations monitoring every movement of every one of 24 million (or thereabouts) vehicles, every one of which will have to be fitted with some kind of 'black box'. The majority of newer cars are already 'enabled' but all older vehicles will have to be 'retro-fitted' - who pays for that? And although politicians seem to forget it, 'cars' are actually driven by people (voters) - if they're tracking your vehicle, they'll have a pretty good idea what YOU are up to. And every driver will receive a bill, monthly - RIGHT!! - anybody ever had bother with a gas bill - electricity - phantom bank withdrawal - problem with cooncil tax - or been accused of driving in Red Ken's London; phantom parking ticket, impossible speeding ticket even though the tractor's never left the croft? And this 'all singing, all dancing, all-seeing' system is going to be delivered by a government who've been trying How Long to deliver an NHS national computer system? And to get the tax-credit system right? Or deport tens of thousands of 'lost' assylum seekers? Remember the election in May - Get Right Intae all candidates who come grubbing for votes!!

19

Fraser Jambo,

Dunblane 03/12/2006 09:43:27

Oh dear, isn't everybody feeling rather guilty about using their cars now? I am a car user - I use it when I really have to, but when I can use the bus or train to get somewhere, I do. All you guys who get so wound up about a road-use charge probably know that you should be using public transport, which, it must be said, IS improving (slowly) in this country.

Somehow, as much as I'd like to believe the Executive's "plans", I really can't see anything like this happening before there is a flying pig service between George Square and Princes Street to rival the railway.

20

Thomas the Tank,

Edinburgh 03/12/2006 09:55:54

Oh - forgot to add 'Child Support Agency' to Great Computer and Bureaucratic Cock-Ups of our time. I can see a great upsurge of 'grey' car trading for cash, in pubs, not to mention a cottage industry of fitting lead sheeting round these 'spy in your car' devices.

21

Rubbersnap,

03/12/2006 09:59:21

If they're going to get new trains ... investing in maglev would be the best option for the future.

Getting more motorists off the road is okay by me. I get so sick of seeing ONE person in a car taking up so much room, while polluting the air around me!

22

Thomas the Tank,

Edinburgh 03/12/2006 10:10:52

Can I have another Go? said Thomas.
Anybody who thinks Rod Eddington came up with this proposal out of the clear blue sky must have been born yesterday - Policy Wonks at the Department for Transport have been brewing this for years. In the finest 'Yes Minister' traditions, Eddington would have been handed a conclusion and told to run along, like a good chap, and write a report to come to it. Oh, and here's an I.O.U. for a Peerage, when all the fuss dies down.
Was it Lenin who spoke of 'Useful Idiots'?

23

Aulikki,

Loch Ness 03/12/2006 10:11:39

Andrew the Ex Pat (12) REALLY? They sure aren't any better in the Highlands! On the top of that there only is a single track between Inverness (the fastest growing city in Europe!) and Perth!! Let's face it transport in the whole of the UK is a very bad and sick joke.

24

Socrates470BC,

03/12/2006 10:12:29

Road Tolls and Congestion charging is, in my opinion, serious fraud, and the perpetuators of this nonsense should be jailed for life.

Motorists pay for everything. The amount of money paid by motorists is more than 10 times that required to build a proper congestion free transport system. The reason that we do not have a proper congestion free transport system is obvious. Those in charge of our transport infrastructure are the same people responsible for spending £1 Billion on that white elephant, called the millennium dome. They are the same people who oversaw the 10 fold overrun on the Scottish parliament building. These people are incompetent morons who I would not trust with the loose change in my pocket.

If this was really about the environment, then the really smart people would bring in laws that would force car manufactures to further improve the emission levels from vehicles. Stop the problem at source. Politicians see it differently; they want to create a new bureaucracy with £1Billions spent on toll plazas; an army of civil servants chasing us for road usage fees, and the chancellor counting up another £10,000 per year he will receive from each motorist.

Such a future will strangle our country’s growth, and destroy our economy and civil freedoms. Of course this government has already destroyed our freedom of speech and is now working on destroying our freedom of movement. This is not just a road charging issue or a tax issue; this is an issue about our very survival.

Please fell free to write to your MP and inform him or her that any further penalties applied to you the motorist will result in your vote going elsewhere. Environmentalists do not be fooled by the politicians’ public proclamations about saving the planet. To them it is simply about raising more money to get them out of their perpetual financial mess.

If there is one issue that the British public should fight, it is this. No more taxes on motorists

25

Faye,

Scotland 03/12/2006 10:24:36

No doubt the road charges will be dressed up as a 'green tax'.

I guess they'll still want us to pay our road tax.

Well folks, you know what this means.....decant from the busiest routes M ways to A & B routes.

With the Beeching cuts, half the country is without railway stations.

If we are able to get services like some of the railway systems in europe; fast, clean efficient that would be good but, there is still one problem, exposure to neds.

26

Kinghorn Boy,

Fife 03/12/2006 10:25:48

I think this is a revolutionary idea but not the sort of revolution Joke is hoping for. The people of Hungary, Thailand and now Fiji are showing us the way. Get these self serving, sanctimonious free loaders OUT.

27

johninengland,

england 03/12/2006 10:26:30

transport is the biggest problem facing us in the 21st century ... this is a good start.....but only a start. if government doesn't do more then the wheels will one day stop turning

28

GP,

03/12/2006 10:28:46

Time to stop this one size fits all mentallity that the government has. These ideas would be ok if the country was already on a even platform but it isn't.
Because the SE of england suffers from congestion (mostly self inlficted), we get London social elites explaining the way forward for the whole of the UK.

This just does not make sense. We need improved roads up to a sepcific standard before we here should apy tolls. We need improved rail before again we pay any more.

That is problem with the UK it never has set basic standards across the country. The first thing would be to set minimum road standards for current and projected traffic flows. Build the road to fit this standard then you could perhaps look at charging.

Does anyone really believe that the M8 is fit for purpose? or the A9 and A1.

29

The Proud Chauvanist,

The Wash 03/12/2006 10:31:59

I wonder if this Eddington character realises that if some 80 odd years ago a luddite with a similar attitude to himself had decided that to fly people round the world he would be without his fottune !!!

30

Jock ex 45Cdo RM,

Thornhill 03/12/2006 10:32:03

Road Tolls see RAC Foundation

42 FORTY TWO billion pounds collected on road taxes presently. 9 NINE billion spent on road build/improvements.
This proposal is simply another TAX.

Worst hit the 30% of the population, Pensioners and
the lowest paid.
Time that 30% voted with a party who understand
the effect this proposed tax willhave on ALL costs,
all distribution and travel.
I doubt if Two Jags and fat cat cotemporaries will
feel any difference.
When England pay these charges, will Eire,France,
Scotland and Germany pay when we vsit England?
Come on Tony, David Alex Dai comment please

Visit Tax Free Scotland soon

31

The Proud Chauvanist,

The Wash 03/12/2006 10:37:04

Sorry missed a biy out; ....to fly people round the world was quite stupid when they could take weeks by sea he would be.......

32

Kinghorn Boy,

Fife 03/12/2006 10:37:36

"Make the lie big, make it simple, keep saying it, and eventually they will believe it."

Adolph Hitler

33

scottwebb.co.uk,

03/12/2006 10:45:30

Roll on may :)

34

Ian C,

Fife ex MCoyRM 03/12/2006 10:49:03

The clever nutty is with wee (or big) Jock on 30.

Watch 45 tonight on Panorama "Chasing the Taliban". Might even get old Russ Craig (ex WO1) watching it with a tear in his eye !

I'm off to Canada later today (a country built by Scots who had to leave home !) Back next week though. I don't see the US saying they cannot run their onw affairs.

The real emeny here is Scottish Labour. Without those seats England will go to the Tories.

35

Douglas,

Bathgate 03/12/2006 10:51:31

Are we really paying politicians and civil servants chunks of cash for them to sit around in groups, getting drunk and coming up with this crap? It's the same old rubbish getting trotted out to give the appearence of something being done until the lazy sods are found out and booted out of office.

36

silemairin,

Planet Off the Wall 03/12/2006 10:55:23

And while you are all huffing and puffing about your road tax and tolls these same MPs who don't even pay to travel, not even conjestion charge, and are still allowed to smoke at work, they have put in for a pay rise of 66% this will take them up to a 100 grand a year WITHOUT expenses, now that does warrant a revolution..... it is a good day for burying news is a byword of this govt........

37

Caliwag,

york 03/12/2006 11:01:10

Agree entirely with No 1 and especially No 22, well said TT.
If anyopne believes that there is enough money, public, private or both to build new lines now is not looking at the facts.
Obviously CTRL had a chance with the whole continent begging...and was built to potentially rid us of our island mentality.
But realistically how many people want to travel from Edinburgh to London, regularly? As soon as someone says "yeah but I'm going to Nottingham , Leeds, Manchester or even Newcastle it bu88ers up your timings, everyone is going to want to be on the map just like Bathgate Airdrie.
Just look at earlier threads...fast line to Preston...Preston I ask you, then split to Glasgow and Edinburgh. Forget it.
No, in this densely populated country the best solutuion is to improve what we have, quad track as necessary as stoppers just get in the way or HSTs, rebuild some strategic routes (puting new housing and business parks adjacent to them) and blo88y travel less...improve our lifestyles and work smart.

Its a "don't build a bridge, drain the river" situation.
Well not really, but it is about creative thinking and long term projection of work and leisure patterns.

Wag

Incidentally...no facts to substantiate this...but the ECML busy times for business travel now is apparently Tues am and Thurs pm, people preferring to pack a week into a 3 day visit...noticable on the trains when I commuted from York to London! Thank God I rethought my life!!
Good luck however you travel

38

silemairin,

Planet Off the Wall 03/12/2006 11:04:46

GP 28#
just a thought you talk of the social elite in London decisions are made by govt

Minister of Transport Mr Alexandra
Prime Minister Mr Bliar
Treasury Mr Brown
Home Office Mr Reid
Defence need I go on they are all Scottish they just work in London are driven about in tax free cars where traffic is manipulated to suit their cause.....

39

alastair knowles,

edinburgh 03/12/2006 11:05:24

Is it not about time we saw some of this hot air converted into real projects? The UK transport infrastructure is abysmal - if our economy is to remain competive we must invest in this type of project - but we waste time and build false expectations expounding endlessly without delivery.

High speed rail transport in necessary and should be a viable business proposition. Traffic is increasing and fuelled by the environment lobby, there is an enormous slice of the North-South air market up for grabs. But we need private and public investment. It is difficult to see where this will come from while RailTrack is in existence.

40

Bob J Perth,

03/12/2006 11:13:38

Wonder why Eddington doesn't advocate fast train services. Does he still have shares in the air industry.

41

GraemeH,

Edinburgh 03/12/2006 11:30:26

If they try to fit a box in my car to track movements and then bill me, it will be "broken" for most of the time.....

Also, what about foreign registered vehicles - we see loads of Polish, Lithuanian, etc now, never mind the tourists - how will they pay.

42

Mallory,

03/12/2006 11:34:21

Extend Edinburgh's tramways..

43

baroda,

spain 03/12/2006 11:35:53

WATCHED BBC NEWS ON FRIDAY MORNING .THE REPORTER WAS STANDING WITH THE A.1 BYPASS AT GATESHEAD IN THE BACK GROUND. SHE WAS TALKING ABOUT THE 9 PILOT REGIONS FOR THE CONGESTION CHARGE AND HOW IT WAS NEEDED IN THE NORTH EAST. IN THE BACK GROUND BEARING IN MIND IT WAS THE RUSH HOUR THE TRAFICK WAS FLOWING FREELY SO WHY WOULD THEY NEED TO HAVE A CONGESTION CHARGE. ANOTHER OF TONY BALOONEYS CASH RAISING SCHEMES TO PAY FOR THE ILLEGAL WARS HE HAS US IN. TIME THE NEW TORIES WERE VOTED OUT BIG STYLE. THEY ARE ALL TALK AND NO ACTION. THEY TREAT THE ORDINARY PERSON AS IF WE ARE STUPID. WHEN THEY DO GO YOU CAN BET THEY ALL HAVE THERE POCKETS FILLED WITH TAXPAYERS MONEY.

44

Sedov,

Scotland 03/12/2006 11:53:45

More should be done to encourage powered two wheel transport ( PTW) eg, opening up the bus lanes ( As in Sheffield) expanding free lockable parking areas for PTW's and introducing PTW awareness as part of the car driving lessons and tests to make biking more safe. More PTW's mean less congestion and pollution so PTW's should be exempt from road charges. Many modern PTW's have heated grips fitted as standard and heated clothing can also be bought for our winters which are 8in any case getting milder. So get on yer bike!

45

Nureyev,

Saudi Arabia 03/12/2006 11:55:36

Somewhat cynical about an ex airline CEO restricting N-S mega rail projects, slight bias or lobby perhaps?
I believe that Maglev or other should be implemented. Fares should be low and quality up. Current 1st class should be the norm. What about RoRo?
Reinvestment, long term vision is required.
Act now show initiative as for costs what price war?

46

BigStu,

In a pothole near a windfarm 03/12/2006 12:21:03

#24 Socrates470BC you hit the nail on the head.

So, just call it green and the numpties will pay the new tax and put up with constant surveillance.

This could of course be a ruse to get all us disaffected voters out on the day. I have not voted for years, there has been no one worthy of my vote. I will certainly vote AGAINST anyone who proposes this new tax.
Problem is, they will probably all go for it as they are all cut from the same cloth IMHO.

Wee Joke and his pals need to remember they are supposed to serve us.

47

JimC,

Kilmarnock 03/12/2006 12:26:02

Election Madness takes a grip. What utter rubbish, as one poster pointed out, 30minutes for 40 miles is a pure waste of money and the reason is that these systems are wholly inappropriate for Scotland. This whole road pricing idea is a no-go, many working class folks could not afford it. I take my elderly mum and dad to hospital on regular occasions each month, due to this pathetic Executive I need to visit Cummnock, Ayr, Irvine and Crosshouse hospital, each seems to specialise in different things, decentralised services Joke calls it, so how do I get them there. This government should stop and think, remember the demonstrations around the poll tax, remember the fact that this country was nearly brought to its knees by the fuel protests, remember the huge anti-war gatherings in London? These will pale into insignificance if they go ahead with this madness.

48

HIS,

Edinburgh 03/12/2006 12:31:45

If it wasn't for the Union we wouldn't have a high speed rail network in Scotland and England or motorways coneecting Edinburgh to England, the M74 and to Glsagow... er, justa minute!

49

KWC,

Liberton, Edinburgh 03/12/2006 12:43:50

What rubbish. The biggest industry in Scotland is TALKING about such things. There is also an inverse relationship between sensible ideas (like this is) and success. No chance.

You have to think up nutty one -- like trams in Edinburgh -- to get approval.

50

Andrew_10101,

03/12/2006 12:49:35

London is often said to have major problems with housing for so-called "key workers" (nurses, firecrew, paramedics etc), and are failing miserably with many of their "key worker initiatives", leading to a major meltdown in sight. Edinburgh is supposed to be going the same way.

So how do you solve the problem? I know ! You devise a tax of "up to 80p a kilometre" for people that have to drive in to work. That will sort out the problems (NOT!!).

51

Chikderic,

Inverness 03/12/2006 13:03:17

1. So no high-speed railways lines as in France, Italy, Germany, Spain, Belgium, Netherlands, except, of course, the Channel Tunnel Rail Link! This shows us exactly what the Oxbridge educated Civil Service think of anyone who lives away from London. We can trundle on trains no faster than 40-50 years ago whilst they have weekends on the continent, heavily subsidised, with travel times less than those to most of England and all of Scotland.

2. What's the betting the numpties award themselves large allowances to pay for any road tolls. Whatever else you do in May vote against any sitting MSP. Warn their successors that it is their duty to look after the people and not to line the pockets of themselves and their cronies.

52

Androsthenes,

EDINBURGH 03/12/2006 13:05:31

FORGET ABOUT THE MAY ELECTIONS ROLLING ON...ON THE BBC JUST NOW THE SNP AND LIB DEMS ARE IN FAVOUR OF THE "ROAD PRICING" CASH COW.
SO YOUR CHOICE AS USUAL IS -NO CHOICE.

53

Androsthenes,

EDINBURGH 03/12/2006 13:09:46

You got to wonder though about these TGV style trains to London.
How many Scots use cars to go to London in the first place?
If ,as so often. we're going too London just to go somewhere else by plane why would we want to be dropped off in central London 90 mins from Heathrow airport?

54

Meldrew,

Warrington 03/12/2006 13:16:21

If governments were really serious about curring CO2 from motor transport, they would issue fuel coupons which we as individuals, would all have to justify annually when we purchased our new tax disks. It has been done in the past. No need for expensive and unreliable black boxes everywhere. If you found you needed more coupons you could buy these from others who had more than they needed - just like carbon trading between nations!

55

Neil,

9% Growth Party 03/12/2006 13:44:01

A bullet train has been priced at £3 billiion. At a 10% return on capital this would mean each ticket would cost about £230.

These idiots should not be allowed to run a whelk stall. They intend to spend 70% of their transport budget on rail despite the fact that it makes up only 2% of travel.

£3 billion taken off corporation taxes over 1.5 years could allow our economy to grow by up to 5% extra per year (a bit over £7.5 billion or £1500 per head every year thereafter).

56

R Mc,

Elgin 03/12/2006 13:46:50

A toll charge of 80 pence per kilometer,they can kiss my lilly white Scottish @r$e.I'd go out my way to use wee piddly roads. There's a difference between road tax and road tolls but 80p per kilometer is out and out theft. Of course silly me,this is to get us all to use outmoded, outdated, slow, unreliable, uncertain modes of public transport that are either not on time, full to capacity, can't run because there's leaves on the line or it's the wrong type of snow so we can't clear it. What a load of old bo!!0x. Until public transport is made reliable then road tolls shouldn't even be considered, What raving great numpty heeded tosspot thought up this brilliant idea. EEJITS the lot of them

57

Steve McGregor,

Glasgow 03/12/2006 13:49:02

Scots need to travel a lot to Europe to see how far behind we are in terms of everything compared to West European public services. An ICE train runs everyday from Frankfurt to Cologne, 118 miles apart in 58 minutes. The same kind of train which is still a dream to us, and probably our unrealistic dreams to only "con" voters for the next may election, would run the Glasgow-Edinburgh 40 miles in just 19 minutes.
We may call ourselves "great" whatever, though realistically we are not "Great" anything.

I know now "its time"

58

Andrew S,

Dundee 03/12/2006 14:11:03

#56 The fact rail makes up just 2% is partly the point to the whole 'Bullet Train' scheme. The more thats invested into it the more attractive mode of transport it will become and with road pricing on the cards people will avoid using those roads. Personally all I think it's going to do is push people to take other routes to their destination. Down country roads and through quiet villages.

A north/south rail link is needed to cut usage of domestic UK flights. As has been mentioned the route between Newcastle - London is severely congested with travellers. Already Kings Cross is vastly reaching the limit of trains coming in/out of it and really something needs to be done. Edinburgh is much the same but the extensions should ease this.

Although these new trains may not be filled when leaving Edinburgh it will encourage business in the north. There will be more controversy deciding where the route will go and stop. It can't circle every city in the country.

59

US Cavalry,

Virginia USA 03/12/2006 14:35:47

Unless if you want the same problems as the US. Build up your rail system. The US gave up our trains for the Automobile years ago. Now it's a nightmare on the bloody roadways. Over 60,000 killed each year. Hundreds of thousand maimed and injured to say the least. Then sitting in traffic for hours waiting to have the bodies removed from the carnage.

60

,

03/12/2006 14:45:06
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason: Scotsman Import, Original comment id: 206959, Article id was mapped to record!
61

Cynic,

Dalkeith 03/12/2006 14:59:54

Beeching was a vandal. His legacy to the Nation of gridlock and poor transportation infrastructure is a daily reminder to those who can still remember. If road charging is to be rammed down our throats what about scrapping vehicle excise licence? Poor compensation indeed but a move in the right direction. And this new train business - when/if it ever materialises, it will be toooooooooooooo costly for the ordinary traveller. If the SE want more people to use public transport, could they not experiment with reducing fares which might even lead to higher profits by attracting more passengers.

62

ECHELON_1,

03/12/2006 15:00:51

61. JG.

Agreed. It’s time… to stop saying that.

Public transport is not reliable enough in this country and it is too expensive. My wife commutes by train into London all week, costs about £400 a month. For that she gets to stand on a packed train most of the way. It’s a joke.

60. Tonto

Valid point, but your road deaths would be markedly reduced if (1) people wore seat belts, loads don’t, (2) there weren’t so many DUI problems (3) Standard of driving was better (4) your American cars could go around corners and had decent road handling.

63

AlecJ,

03/12/2006 15:34:19

Once again, the name of the game is screw the motorist, as ever. I had to go from Aberdeen to Edinburgh last week, so went by train. I arrived early at the station, found out the GNER train had broken down on its way north so the train to Edinburgh was cancelled. That gave me nearly an hour freezing on Aberdeen station.
On the other hand, with the Gestapo controls at airports it is personally usually more comfortable to travel by train to big cities nowadays, or by personal car elsewhere, that way you retain more of your dignity.
I cannot see the controls enforced on us continuing to be effective in combatting "terrorism", all they do is upset the voters, either because they try to take more money from us for no added value, or because they take any rights we still own in theory.

64

wattie>x 1,

03/12/2006 15:46:43

Radically overhaul public transport? By whom?
After nine years the political amateurs off New Labour have spent and wasted billions of taxpayers money from the dome, foot and mouth, NHS, Education, Transport and taken the country into more undeclared wars than any previous UK
governement in recorded history.
Most of these these so-called experts are irrelevant, expensive and burdensome buffoons. Almost every one off Blair's present and past politburo have been moved from one department after making a mess of it, to another, where it would be almost certain they would make make a bigger mess.
If the money these Champagne socialists have squandered since 1997 could be made available
today; we probably would have the best Medical Care system, best Educational Establishments, the best Transport system, no Homeless, fewer poverty
stricken inmates locked up in jails now bursting at the seams etc. and no poor families who would now be leading much happier lives with their children.
The advent of New Labour has resulted in the worst political disaster ever for the majority of people in
this country even including Thatcherism.
The sooner these amateurs are depatched to the political dung heap where they deservedly belong, the sooner the people of this contry will prosper.

65

Xhile,

West Mids 03/12/2006 15:54:17

Has nobody but myself done the sums yet?
My son travels 48 miles a day on two motorways to get to work.
In England the tolls will be £1.35 a mile.
My son would then pay £320 a week in tolls to get to work.
This is more than his entire salary!
Any attempt to introduce these tolls will bring economic meltdown across the whole of the UK.
Millions of workers would just give up any idea of ever working again.
The government could give away free petrol and it would still not be worth while driving to work - these Labour politicians are totally insane both in England and Scotland.

66

wattie>x 1,

03/12/2006 15:58:16

The greatest disaster I omitted to mention! Since New Labour appeared on the political scene has been the slow DEATH OF OUR HARD WON FREEDOMS; and if allowed to continue, we shall have a carefully organised GESTAPO scrutinising every movement we make.

67

Winston,

Europe 03/12/2006 16:49:51

Well said n°5.
Re making the rail system will become essential. France started the TGV system many years ago. It was a bold move and its successful. It takes time. They will soon open the Paris Strasbourg line and the next one will be the Rhin Rhone.
Means new tracks and bridges.
So better get started now. Its never too late. The later you wait the more expensive it will become.
Heres a link in english that outlines the TGV Est
http://www.lgv-est.com/presentation.php?pg=341
If I read this right, it has taken them 20years to get this one done. Shows how it was financed too.

68

robbie runciman,

Lydd 03/12/2006 17:01:11

If it was up to the tories and some of the posters here humans would never have evolved past living in mud huts, because any change would lead to tax rises.

69

ECHELON_1,

03/12/2006 17:07:37

68 Winston:

You said “France started the TGV system many years ago. It was a bold move and its successful. It takes time.”

Apparently the first public railway, the Surry Iron Railway, South London Village opened in 1803. 203 years ‘progress’ results in the crap we’ve got now! I used to live in Germany & Holland, in Germany especially you could arrive on the platform at the stated time, it would arrive on the button, you could set your watch to it. You’re better off with a crystal ball and a calendar in this country.

70

JayJay,

Glasgow 03/12/2006 17:07:57

I do hope that, in spite of the Great British tradition, people are going to do something more tangible that p1ss and moan about this.
You take, as an example, the Gyle in Edinburgh, or Strathclyde Business Park, or east Kilbride, or Cumbernauld. All places where you will find a high concentration of places of work. All places where I defy you to find an easy route on public transport. At the Gyle, we have the nonsense of a new station, and the Glasgow Edinburgh train can't stop there.
The plan, as far as it is presented, is to charge 80p per kilometre for road use in peak hours...so Glasgow to Edinburgh return is, lets be generous, 100km. So, it costs you £80 per day, round trip. Great, I am out of my car. Oh dear, the platform at Queen Street can't take the strain of all the people who presently drive. The Glasgow Edinburgh service, already overcrowded, if it can get onto the platform, only has six coaches and these are already busting at the seams at peak. Aside from that prize twazzock Begg, who is thinking this stuff up? As many people have said above, ok if we get the roads. We have possibly the most laughable motorway network in the developed world here in Scotland. Every time I hear the aspirations of people like Joke McConnell into turning us into a "world class" something or other, I think M8, M80, A96, A9, A1 - the idea that we might be charged to use dual carriageways or dirt tracks is clearly a great huge wind up, dressed up in today's crusade, "its the environment stupid".
What really tickles me about this is that you can see the scenario where the ordinary bloke is royally shafted whatever which way he turns:
a) use the car in peak time. 80p per kilometre
b) get public transport. Scotfail will doubtless continue to make the most popular routes the most expensive, so, under the guise of "needing to invest" you'll find rocketing fares, poorer service etc
c) and of course the re

71

robbie runciman,

Lydd 03/12/2006 17:11:19

some of the Maths on the site from those opposed to this scheme is amazing. The payback time for rail infrasturcture, if the private sector involvement is controlled, should be 50 years. 8bn to build the railway, bargain -provided the French do it, UK companies would make a mess of it and push up costs.

Lowering Corporation tax, why not just make sure the b*gg*rs actually pay it, most companies arrange themselves to avoid paying it so that the rest of us have to fill the funding gap through stealth taxes

72

ECHELON_1,

on the platform...cold...wet...bugger this 03/12/2006 17:19:38

Nationalize the railways. Get double decker trains, cut the number of MP’s cut MP’s salaries to £35k. Have a zero tolerance of people living off the system. Boot all radical extremists out the country without dealing with courts, urhm… Bring back 7 of 9 from Startrek…what a babe… Legislate a maximum door width on McDonalds to 50cm. Bring back 7 of 9…

73

Prinzowhales,

North Carolina 03/12/2006 17:21:34

Labour is trying to put a noose of tolls, privatization and construction boondoggles around the neck of a soon-to-be-free Scotland. Don't let them do it. Let it be known that a free Scotland will not be indentured to the banks to pay interest on debt undertaken by the Labour regime!

In the States, particularly in Texas, the governor is trying to steal some 8,000 miles of public roads to turn to toll roads much of it run and operated by a company of which Juan Carlos, the king of Spain, is a large stockholder. Texans will be paying tolls on roads that their taxes have already paid for!!

Just what does the Executive do with the gasoline taxes? Why, suddenly, do we need tolls to pay for the roads on top of the taxes? I'll tell you why! Because the fat cats and the money bags, the 'No-ability of Europe'-- as Marx fondly denoted the titled wastrels--and their fellow plutocrats with their dog-faced hirelings of the 'Labour' regime want a steady income from the blood, sweat and tears of Scotland.

Sort out free Scotland before going on a spending binge orchestrated by the likes of Labour.

Yes, the bullet trains sound great. But, whether you vote for freedom or not, look at the project in terms of not only Scotland, but the whole of Britain. If you are going to build a mag-lev corridor, why not pack pipelines and highways into the package as well and coordinate all aspects of your transportation future?...Power grid, pipelines, roads, mag-lev...don't do it piecemeal and haphazard.

One good thing about the design of the proposed North American corridor, is that it bundles all of these things into one--the bad thing about it is that this Mex-American project takes from the people and gives to the oligarchs. Scr*w the oligarchs! Up with the engineers!

74

Duncan,

on tour 03/12/2006 17:23:56

Rod Eddington, the man that brought British Airways to it's knees. Presumably he is now in the John Birt, Blue Sky Thinking Department. Another utterly useless arrogant Dalek who wasted millions of the BBCs money with his egotistical madness.

The establishment would just love to have a black box in every vehicle in Britain, to keep tabs on us, the ultimate in police state thinking. Rod Tolls are just another means of taxation. The easiest and simplest way to do this is to scrap road tax and put the tax on fuel. Then the higher milers pay, as it should be.

13 Mikey. Totally agree.

JG. It really is time.

KEEP SMILING.

75

JG,

Fife 03/12/2006 17:27:53

The trains should never have been denationalised in the first place. Sure the system was dreadful, but why not fix that and have it running properly. Better that than this profit making set up we have now.

#73 ECHELON_1
I agree re the MPs and the people living off the system. Who was 7 of 9 from Star Trek? Perhaps a cool shower would settle you down a bit!

76

JG,

Fife 03/12/2006 17:30:13

#75 Duncan
NOOOOO!!!!!!!!! PLEEAAASE STOP!!!!!!

77

Deorsa,

03/12/2006 17:31:49

Having fast train connections London-Glasgow and London-Edinburgh makes sense, to reduce air traffic pollution.

It's 50 minutes from Edinburgh to Glasgow by train, and this will be cut by 20 minutes? I fail to see a great boost of economy here... The Scottish rail service is reliable enough to allow good planning, which is in itself (cost and time) efficient.
It's no use to have a fast train connection between Edinburgh and Glasgow if it has all the present stops (by the time the train has accellerated to the speed it was designed for, it has missed the next stop); To reduce the number of stops of the fast train would mean a seperate track for the fast train is required, since it cannot overtake a local train on the same track. Is this viable?
Or will the local trains on this line be scrapped altogether? Not my idea of improving rail connections...

My choice would NOT be for the Maglev train, since its network is not compatible to that of Eurostar, the French TGV, the German ICE, etc.

I do think tax on motoring should be related to the extent of the environmental damage it causes, but the emphasis should be on putting in place better alternatives for road (and air) travel. Therefore, the taxation should also be in step with the development of alternatives. It will then be a matter of choice to either use a public transport alternative or pay higher taxes. I think this method of taxation is fairer than the present.

78

ECHELON_1,

on the platform...cold...wet...bugger this 03/12/2006 17:36:31

This could be argued as off subject but consider this.
A barman or blonde has the right and legal obligation (I think) to refuse to serve a patron who they believe is excessively drunk.
For the sake of our rising health care burden for people that continue to ignore decades of advice by stuffing their fat faces like a squirrel on crack, would it not be wise to introduce a similar idea for the likes of McDonalds and BK?
“Gownie gevme wan a tha…phhu phhu…wana they Big Macs pal. AND SUPERSIZE ME!”
“I’m sorry Sir, you were quite clearly seen pushing your stomach through the door with the aide of a rowers paddle, thus indicating you are too fat to consume anymore solid food. Would you please vacate the restaurant via the loading bay immediately.”
Such a law could ultimately save the NHS £2.32bn by 2030 with the only negative impact being the loss of 230 jobs as a result of High & Mighty going out of business.

79

ECHELON_1,

on the platform...cold...wet...bugger this 03/12/2006 17:45:02

JG.

You’re not serious?! You don’t know who 7 of 9 is?! Get on the Intut net and have a gander. Amazing bod clad in a kind of lycra body hugging uniform... she had some Borg implants in the side of her head but for Christs sake…who the hell cares about that! Beam me up Nobby

80

Harry Carnie,

british Columbia Canada. 03/12/2006 17:45:09

Europe; beautiful toll bridges and motorways , with clean, ultra fast trains between major cities.
Japan: bullet trains, and super highways.
Scotland and England; the legacy of Thatcher and Blair.

81

The Strategist,

03/12/2006 17:48:16

And what about Aberdeen and Inverness?

No mention about bullet trains or any other sort of improvements to lines to/from these Cities.

82

ChrisW,

Edinburgh 03/12/2006 17:48:59

Very simple question with this sudden urge to tax anything and everything rearing it's ugly head again ... have these defectives in government - aka as "politicians" - forgotten the "brain drain" of the late 1960's when anyone with the skills/cash to emigrate did so to get away from the consequences of being governed by fools?

83

ECHELON_1,

on the platform...cold...wet...bugger this 03/12/2006 17:49:00
84

ECHELON_1,

on the platform...cold...wet...bugger this 03/12/2006 18:06:10

81 Harry Carry

No, I’ll tell you what the problem is, we are suffering for the successes of the industrial revolution and the railway system we started building in the 1800’s. We’ve got the legacy problems of a rabbit warren of railway lines that have only ever been rebuilt and upgraded to short term solutions. Built into that add the problem of our utterly crap road system, primarily with relation to the railways…the thousands of bridges that cross the railways.

Germany and Japan had the benefit of loosing the war and having their infrastructure wiped out in the process (autobahns aside, one good thing Adolf did!). They had to start again, almost clean sheet sort of situation. The UK on the other hand just kept compounding crap on crap. Double decker trains which I have used in Holland are great! Could we have them here? No, because of the damned stupid little bridges we have all over the shop. Let’s face it, our road and rail network is rubbish, it’s going to take half a century to put right and cost tens of billions. In general I don’t like nationalised systems, but two that I believe must be are the NHS and the railways. Why the hell should shareholders be making money out a network that has been in existence for over a 100 years. Nationalise the railways and put proper money into via well designed and executed engineering. On past performance that means getting foreign companies to do it then so be it. We now seem incapable in this country of making big projects happen without totally screwing things up, either operationally or budget wise. It’s a bloody embarrassment. Get the Germans, French or Japs in to do it and it will work and be within budget.

Bring back 7 of 9, reduce the number of MP’s by 50%. Detonate a hypothetical nuke over the whole of the civil service, it’s full of dead wood pen pushing wasters waiting for pensions…strip it out like the rotten old house it is. Bring back 7 of 9 and ban obese people from eatin

85

ECHELON_1,

on the platform...cold...wet...bugger this 03/12/2006 18:07:56

82. Dick.

I heard talk of a high speed paddle steamer sailing from Inverness to Aberdeen then onto Edinburgh. Weekly mind.

86

marc,

canada 03/12/2006 18:11:50

So you link one centre with unaffordable house prices with another the same, so that the vast majority of the population who have no need for the speed of the service, or who could not afford the service, to travel to a specific location from where it takes five times the time to get anywhere useful than the journey itself - smart!
The solution is to kill the need to commute:
1. Employers need to introduces A LOT more homeworking where remotely possible.
2. Decentralize business and commerce away from big cities.
3. Stop the absurd notion of densification in planning policy.
4. Stop continued development of business and commerce in over dense cities like Edinburgh.
5. Introduce sophisticated networks of sustainably powered shared transport systems, eg microbus fleets, car share, etc.
6. Change taxation to support and give advantage to small local businesses over larger centralized ones.

87

Neil,

9% Growth Party 03/12/2006 18:14:31

Robbie 72 when you can actually do simple maths you can criticise.

You wish government to spend 50 years "paying back" (not even trying to show a profit) on projects.

To do this, as almost any fool can plainly see they either have to borrow the money or raise it from taxation In the unlikely event they could borrow at 6% in 50 years time they would have to pay 16 times the borrowing (which after repayment of the original £8 billion you want is £120 billion).

The alternative is to pay for it upfront out of taxes which leads me directly to your last sentence. A complaint that a parasite like you who wants the chance to spend billions of other people's money objects to having to pay taxes yourself.

88

Prinzowhales,

North Carolina 03/12/2006 18:28:13

#87 Marc--Sensible to a fault!--And, its that density that drives the real estate bubbles and mortgage rackets.

89

ThePeter,

Glasge 03/12/2006 18:41:31

Thought we paid road taxes to use the road???
If tyey are charging us toll's, weill they stop the road tax then???

90

mv,

03/12/2006 19:00:16

#67, "The greatest disaster I omitted to mention! Since New Labour appeared on the political scene has been the slow DEATH OF OUR HARD WON FREEDOMS;"

Totally agree, this is not about the environment or improvments in transport, its about TAX and CIVIL LIBERTIES. Now you will be tracked as you go about your daily lives and no doubt fined as you exceed the speed limits.

Read in the paper today, Police in Luton are running a pilot scheme to fingerprint motorists randomly pulled over (not stopped due to traffic offences) and if they refuse they can be arrested and DNA samples taken...also if you hire a car at Stanstead you will asked to be fingerprinted and this info can be passed over to the police.

This report was commissioned by the treasury not by the dept of transport or environment, there was no mention of removing fuel duty or road tax. So its basically another tax for the people of the UK. Vast amounts of tax collected from the motorist have been diverted into anything but transport (hence why the forth road bridge is about to fall down). The roads or public transport have not been improved, they have been slowly falling apart, so why should it now...The green excuse is another smoke screen to raise more money, its like the Edinburgh road tolls pay up now and you might get improved public transport in 5+ years...

Also on this mornings Poltics show they implied that Scotland could be a suitable area to pilot the road pricing scheme! This government is dangerous hopefully they will be removed at the next election, although not sure the others can do any better?

91

Dennis,

North Isles 03/12/2006 19:51:07

67 & 91

You hit the nail on the head.

Its all about control over every aspect of the population. We are to be good workers and consumers and to be fleeced regularly through a multitude of overt and covert taxes. If I thought that the SNP would be any different I'd vote for independence tomorrow. The trouble is that all of our so called democratic parties are falling over each other to tax and control.

It 's the Government that needs to show that it is trustworthy and can deliver on its promises. If you tune in to the daily propaganda ( er I mean BBC/ITV news) you'd think that the ordinary citizen is at fault through joyriding and using over large cars. Instead all we can do is get to work and earn a living the best way possible.
Governments (and would-be Governments) put the stick and the lies away - try something honest and creative for once!! You never know someone might even try leadership - that'd be novel.

Lets ask some hard questions before May.

I think that 'none of the above' should be a box on the voting papers.

92

ECHELON_1,

03/12/2006 20:13:16

Lets ask some hard questions before May

How about how many politicians does it take to build a bridge?

93

JBowyer,

Melbourne Australia 03/12/2006 20:28:26

Scot pols well done!!!!!

First you are going to increase bills to Scots with water (there is a drought on) Air (Global warming!).
Now its every kilometre they traval lol!
Wow you are charging them for roads they have already paid for and those same pollies screamed at Maggie Thatcher for doing this?

Come back Maggie all is forgiven.

94

Harry Carnie,

British Columbia , Canada. 03/12/2006 21:05:11

#81.. thank you for giving me a bit of a different slant(thats right, these counties HAD to rebuild.) On further thought ,though..my old father used to say((WE are in the BUSH of northern B.C.)
"When you are lost in the bush there is no use putting your thoughts and efforts into HOW you got there...IT IS FINDING YOUR WAY OUT, THAT COUNTS". Right on with the nationalisation..some infrastructure and services should NOT be privatized
companies are( C.E.O.s and board members) LEGALLY compelled to maximize profit for their shareholders.That is a companys sole existance..to make MONEY.Everything else is secondary. No problem with this, when the public has a CHOICE to use their product (or service) BUT if it is health, education or providing power, water ect. Then PROFIT still OVERIDES ALL. On a happier note.. AGREE...bring BACK 7 of 9!!!!

95

Winston,

Europe 03/12/2006 22:13:46

A high speed rail link between Edinburgh and Glasgow sounds like a good start.
Have a look at how the TGV Est line is financed. Its a much longer line but it looks like everybody got on board to finance it. See table at the end of the article.
http://www.lgv-est.com/presentation.php?pg=341

96

Sprite256,

Edinburgh 03/12/2006 23:10:57

#42 Mallory, what good will that do?anyway we do not need the Trams or the chaos the City will have to put up with during construction. As for the rest of the comments, yes it is yet another revenue grab by the clowns we have voted into office. I am not so sure that next May will have a big effect on proposals such as we are discussing here.Looks as if we are stuck with the outcome of these proposals as there will be a desire to raise more revenue at the expense of those who can least afford to pay.

97

Caliwag,

york 03/12/2006 23:16:20

Yup Marc No 87...only sense in 87 comments, apart from mine of course, but who sets the ball rolling?
Seems to be human nature to work in one place and then travel to another, because it is theoretically possible.
It is time that everyone reading these contributions ask themselves what the f*ck they think they're up to, replan their lives and spread the word.
There is absolutely no point in carrying on as they are. IT WILL ONLY GET WORSE: PLAN YOUR NEW LIFE NOW.

Good luck whatever life that may be.

98

Friar Tuck,

03/12/2006 23:19:55

The easiest way to charge motorists for road usage is by adding a tax to the fuel. That way the vehicles which use the most fuel pay more.

Oh, wait a minute - they already do that!

Seriously, wouldn't it be nice to do away with road tax & insurance premiums and just add the cost on to the fuel. Think of it - it's so simple! The more you drive, the more you pay.

Think of the saving too - no more toll collectors to pay, no more administration costs for tax disc issuing and no more insurance company rip-offs! Also, no more uninsured vehicles!

99

Paul Morris,

Edinburgh 03/12/2006 23:54:45

This is a promising and welcome sign of the Scottish executive beginning to take congestion & climate change seriously.

High speed rail links between Edinburgh, Glasgow & London are long overdue & will be essential to the Scottish economy once air fares begin to climb steeply.

100

Barry.,

Edinburgh 04/12/2006 02:50:59

Why do I get a feeling that only one of these proposals (the tolls) will be introduced?

101

Stewy,

Carlisle 04/12/2006 08:49:17

Live in Carlisle now but do loads of travelling back into Gods Country. I think road charges will have a detrimental effect on the Scottish economy. People will be put off by the road charges, thus affecting tourism. How much doesthe average person travelling up to Scotland from the south spend on a visit. If these Toll charges are introduced then peopel will perhaps decide that they will spend there hard earned somewhere else. We have just got rid of the very unpopular charges on the Skye bridge which it was claimed was harming Tourism on Skye by the reluctance of people to travel there.

102

Reiver,

04/12/2006 09:02:45

#4 totally agree mate.

#10 Morris ... get a life ... action is the answer, stop squabbling and vote out any politician advocating this sort of nonsense.

103

Astro Turf,

04/12/2006 09:22:38

Bullet Trains... between Edinburgh and Glasgow.

C'mon guys, look at the other articles comments if you cant see why this is a non starter and a complete joke.

104

Edward,

04/12/2006 10:54:03

Everyone should be aware, that this is another piece of pro labour propoganda to follow on the heals of the Eddington report, which was set up by Labour
the Scotsman is excelling today with a number of news 'implants'. Its sad to see a paper of this quality get used in this way by a corrupt government
Its obvious labour are very very scared about what could happen in may, we will see many stories like this come out

105

John M,

Melbourne, Australia 04/12/2006 11:17:13

I wonder if anyone bothered to research where people wish to travel to and at what time of the day? There is no good reason to build something for which there is no demand. "Build it and they will come" is a mantra based on faith and dreams.

A few thoughts...
1 - introduce comfortable electric double-decker trains so that train travel is a pleasure and not a chore
2 - get some Swiss people to run your trains
3 - consider modifying or constructing track routes to get the best benefit(eg. can a link be constructed from Shotts to Craigneuk to provide a more direct Edinburgh-Glasgow route)
4 - be prepared to accept that the projects may take several decades to break even
5 - and of course there's the flip side of encouraging the use of computer-based communications and regional business centres in order to reduce traffic.

106

Winston,

Europe 04/12/2006 18:30:07

We are years behind europe on high speed rail travel.
The specialised firms do it better now than before so the catching up should be quicker.
Remember though, it means immense civil works. Bridges, tunnels, new stations, land expropriation. Its a hard pill to swallow but you feel better after it.
Just look at PARIS to LONDON. Whats the point of taking the plane or the car when you have a really quick comfy eurostar ride from town center to town center.
Maybe if scots knew that they had already contributed to the TGV Est line in France they might want a bit more of the gateau.

107

Caliwag,

York 04/12/2006 21:40:27

John M in Melbourne. That's exactly what Inter City (BR) were doing all the time until idiot Major and cronies blew it through ideology. They knew exactly how and when people wanted to travel...hence as I've posted before, the cross country network shouldn't be meddled with by amateurs because the vast majority of passengers are students, holidaymakers, grannies etc who want to travel from Dundee to Bath or Berwick to Cheltenham with as few changes as possible,for obvious reasons...not obvious to the meddling Department of Roads though, youngsters.

Thye point is, nearly forgot, that Britains railways do not suit any higher speed than 125mph...maybe 140 on bits of ECML andWCML because of the mix of traffic, the mix of destinations, which for God sake is how it should be...York to Nottingham, Perth to Newcastle, Norwich to Liverpool etc etc.

As I keep asking: on a wet November Tuesday how many people want to go from Edinburgh to London...no not getting off at Grantham to see granny or York for a day's shopping? it's a non starter and the bean counters know it. We are not the continent, or OZ, we are a natiopn of tootlers who, if the train turns up (and it usually does) and runs near to time (as it usually does) we actually enjoy the journey...look at the sunrise/set, fields: use the time to think, do crosswords, chat etc etc
Who is actually asking for Bullets? its only some pathetic attempt to beat the plane, just not worth it...those boys will be off working smart, video conf from the golf course on the Algarve...boys and girls with the cash are sharp...they will lead the way.

Enjoy yer travel

108

Bozo,

NSW Australia 05/12/2006 05:45:08

C'mon fellas what about the Electro Magnetic trains,pollution free,very fast no rails to wear out ,no noise do the same to London.
Transport should be free of politicians trying to score brownie points,Want a new airoport put it in,a new road out it in,a new rail link put it in.

109

Caliwag,

06/12/2006 22:54:28

There we go. The streamlining of the planning process, as announced today, will make such things possible in our lifetime, whether we want them or not. There's yer epitaph Bozo, "just put it in" LOL
Wag

110

Reiver,

09/12/2006 13:03:09

"David Davidson, transport spokesman for the Tories, said: "They will have to deal with the M8. It needs widening because you have got both road freight and passengers. The question of the A9 also needs examining."

Why can't they simply stop the HGV's tearing up and blocking our roadways - especially during peak hours ... improve freight trains and use haulage on shorter internal routes only (unless unavoidable - thick envelopes might be required to get the unavoidable stamp though) ... or charge HGV's for the damage that they and the utilities cause to our road system from traffic and digging up roads (especially freshly laid roads).

The Scottish (wee pretendie) parliament should be encouraged to to push such introspective, small minded approaches - then and only then, will we see that it's a consistent, overall British approach to running our country that is required so that we can stop wasting valuable resources and money to pander to the whims of the ultra liberal and nationalistic elements of our British nation.

In the process of this, also removing the ideological lunatics that want their own version of how society should be remade (redistribution of wealth to those least equipped to make it work for everyone's benefit) - maybe then we can all vote for local ("independently minded") people to go to the big smoke and represent their communities within a national parliament and actually being present during debates and for votes.

Given that political parties can't fund themselves without some form of ("apparent") corruption ("votes for honours - or insisting the taxpayers pay more to fund them when by democratic choice we have already chosen not to") we should call louder and louder for them to be banned from Government and offices.


 

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