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We won't be silenced say Iran's opposition

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Published Date: 26 June 2009
WITH an iron-fisted crackdown on the streets, the Iranian regime appears to have weathered the biggest anti-government protests since the 1979 Islamic Revolution – but it has failed to silence a defiant opposition challenge to the disputed presidential election results.
Undeterred by the harassment, Mir Hossein Mousavi, the man millions of Iranians believe was the real winner on 12 June, insisted yesterday that his followers had a constitutional right to protest peacefully. He said the authorities were increasingly isolating and vilifying him in an attempt to get him to withdraw his election challenge – which he vowed he would not do.

"My access to people is completely restricted," he said. He condemned a crackdown on his media group, saying his two websites were being tampered with and his newspaper closed down and its staff arrested.

While the regime has proven it has the muscle to repress the street unrest after conducting one of the harshest crackdowns in its history, it must know that dealing with a possible campaign of mass civil disobedience will be much more difficult.

Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, the official winner of the "stolen" election, meanwhile lambasted Barack Obama for his condemnation earlier this week of the violence in Iran. He warned the United States president not to interfere in Iran's affairs, accusing him of falling into a trap set by some European states, such as Britain, that are led "by a bunch of politically retarded people".

Mr Ahmadinejad's remarks were among the most strident so far in a crude, government- orchestrated campaign to scapegoat western powers for the regime's misfortunes.

The US has been preparing for a historic engagement with the Islamic Republic, but the Iranian president warned Washington that if Mr Obama continued to act like his hawkish predecessor, George Bush, there "will be nothing left to talk about".

Mr Ahmadinejad's outburst is likely to heighten fears that Iran's deeply divided leadership could try to exacerbate tensions in the region to distract attention from its domestic worries. US-backed Arab leaders in Sunni Muslim-majority countries such as Saudi Arabia and Egypt have been quietly gloating over Shia Iran's self-inflicted problems.

They regard Mr Ahmadinejad as a dangerous demagogue who is destabilising the region and meddling in Arab affairs by sponsoring groups such as Hezbollah and Hamas. They suspect there is less chance now of a rapprochement between Tehran and Washington, which they had feared could undermine their interests.

The regime's apparent victory on the streets may well prove to be Pyrrhic. Hundreds of opposition activists are believed to have been taken into custody – including 70 academics arrested as they left Mr Mousavi's home on Wednesday night.

Seventeen protesters are officially acknowledged to have died during the crackdown, although reformists say the true death toll is probably higher. But the upper echelons of the regime have never been so divided, its rifts never so publicly exposed. Mr Ahmadinejad's victory party on Wednesday night was snubbed by nearly two-thirds of the members of Iran's 290-seat parliament. The regime and its supreme leader, Ayatollah Ali Khamenei – who hailed Mr Ahmadinejad's victory as a "divine blessing" – have lost all semblance of popular legitimacy, analysts say. There have been unprecedented chants of "Death to Khamenei!" at opposition demonstrations.

One furious female voter wrote on her Facebook page: "They are changing Iran from an 'Islamic Republic' to 'Islamic' by their actions. This is the death of democracy in Iran."

The president and supreme leader are now confronted by a powerful coalition of insiders who have been forced by events into an unlikely opposition role. Foremost is Mr Mousavi, who was Iran's prime minister during the war with Iraq in the 1980s.

He is being backed by two influential politician-clerics, Akbar Hashemi Rafsanjani, a pragmatic conservative, and Moh-ammad Khatami, a popular reformist: both are former presidents. Their alliance lacks military muscle but has people power.

Today, Mr Mousavi's supporters plan to release thousands of balloons printed with the message: "Neda you will always remain in our hearts" – a reference to the young woman, a philosophy student, killed by security forces last week, who has become an icon of the protests where women have been on the front line.

Nightly, thousands of Iranians have taken to their rooftops in a symbolic and peaceful ritual of opposition unity, chanting "God is Great!" and "Death to the Dictator!" – both rallying cries of the 1979 Islamic Revolution. They are well aware that comparing today's protests with those against the US-backed shah 30 years ago infuriates the regime.


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  • Last Updated: 25 June 2009 11:20 PM
  • Source: The Scotsman
  • Location: Edinburgh
  • Related Topics: Iran
 
1

Mashimaro,

China 26/06/2009 00:18:23
Did we forget to mention that millions of Iranians believe Amahdinejad won?
2

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26/06/2009 00:42:21
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3

2dogs in D.C.,

26/06/2009 01:27:17
Wow,look,now we CAN comment here.Mashi,postit-won or not,should they,or any one quash dissent through violent suppression? I say no,but that's just me.I believe in the freedom of expression,and Postit,that's why I never red any one out.
4

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26/06/2009 01:39:44
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5

John Peters,

26/06/2009 02:34:03
Mousava has the support from the radical elements of Iran, the young eager wealthy kids who want change at any expense. Who knows who really won the election?
6

2dogs in D.C.,

26/06/2009 03:07:33
And that's the facts,there Postit.This is an Iranian problem.But should the rest of the world not be aware of developments? As they unfold? The world ain't as closed as it used to be,by a long way,and with the tech.now available,how,and should,you stop it?Mind you,this from a guy who still types w/two fingers.(And badly)
7

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26/06/2009 03:32:23
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8

SouthernGent,

26/06/2009 03:37:11
There is a fine line in the "to each his own" philosophy. I'm guessing those poor folks in Darfur would appreciate a little help. There are many that don't have the luxury of moving to another country if they are being persecuted, but I see here that many do believe in the genetic lottery, so to heck with those less fortunate.
9

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26/06/2009 03:48:56
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10

SouthernGent,

26/06/2009 03:55:54
Whereas not "interfering" as you call it gets them killed. So I guess that would certainly end their problems.
11

Carolyn 1,

26/06/2009 04:04:53
It seems that even PBS is trying to make this a woman's revolution' rising up against the madmen of Iran. But it's probably both women and men

Without the support of the free democracies in the world denouncing the abuses to women in Iran these women don't have a prayer in hell, so they might as well die as martyrs in the streets trying to make a better life for their children
12

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26/06/2009 04:06:43
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13

SouthernGent,

26/06/2009 04:11:07
And I refer you back to post 8 where I indicated a "fine line". I don't have the answers, but "war" and "doing nothing" don't seem to work either.
14

Carolyn 1,

26/06/2009 04:15:06
@10 Southern Gent
I'm not much for prayers or religion but I can get down on my knees and thank God I live in America, that I don't live in China and that I or my daughter will never have to meet a misogynist like the commenter at #9.

Thank God my daughter will never live under the oppression of sharia law. But how to help them or Darfur? Boycott China and everything made in China.
15

KampungHighlander,

Jakarta 26/06/2009 04:19:01
# 4 Bad Penny

There is a couple of problems with your argument about not interfering in the internal affairs of other states.

1. China doesn't practice it, every time you sell weapons to somebody you are interfering in their internal conflicts. How much arms have you traded the Iranian regime in return for all the oil you import?

2. All countries who are signatories to the Universal Declaration of Human Rights have made an agreement to keep to a minimum human rights standard, when you don't you are violating an International Agreement. When you violate an international agreement the other signatories have a right to demand your compliance.

16

Carolyn 1,

26/06/2009 04:21:29
There is no fine line.
China empowers dictators by buying their oil and then selling them weapons with which they control the people. Iran, Sudan, Venezuela, N. Korea, Syria all buy weapons from China and all too predictably use the weapons against their own people. China is responsible for the slaughter in Darfur. Period.
-you're correct that the answer is not war. Boycott China and everything made in China until they get out of the oil for weapons program with dictators
17

SouthernGent,

26/06/2009 04:22:15
Carolyn,

It is so easy to sit and type what should or should not be done from the comfort of our homes while others wish they could. There are so many in the world that lose the genetic lottery and I'm sure if some here were in that boat then the story would be a little different. Its all a matter of perspective.
18

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26/06/2009 04:24:04
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26/06/2009 04:29:54
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20

SouthernGent,

26/06/2009 04:29:57
"Well if you look at my comeback to you in my post #9, I had countered you on the to "heck with those less fortunate" statement you made, not the "fine line" statement"

We are going in circles, but your posts very clearly indicate a lack of help for those less fortunate to be born in more desirable conditions, history or no history.
21

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26/06/2009 04:56:37
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26/06/2009 05:02:10
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23

Mashimaro,

China 26/06/2009 05:10:12
As usual, Carolyn's hypocrisy leaves us breathless. Like the good ol US hasn't supported dictators or sold arms. Wake up woman, it IS the grand daddy dictator of them all.
Southern Gent you have a good sense of humanity about you. And my views will probably seem very hard line to you. But this is where I stand on this... No interference. Harsh, yes. Genetic lottery, yes. That is how life works, sorry. One of the greatest problems we have in the world today - the single greatest problem no one ever wants to admit to - is over population. Earth is a finite resource. People have to die. There is not enough to support an infinite number of people. China has had to make some harsh decisions on this matter by introducing the one-child policy.
The fight in Darfur is over water. Nothing more, nothing less. Too many people, not enough water. And you'll find most disputes are about stuff like that these days... Iran - oil. Iraq - oil. Mid East - oil routes. Tibet - water. Somalian piracy - fish.
By introducing an unnatural solution you just exacerbate the problem. Who would have thought that curing disease would result in a global catasrophe of over population and pollution? but it did. Who would have thought that giving those commie chinese a "taste of freedom" would have resulted in this mighty global struggle for resources?
These people need to be strong enough to stand on their own and take what they need. If not they will constantly require propping up with further, long term bloodshed. Much as we would like it to happen the world is not going to sit down and end all wars tomorrow. so yes, either there has to be an overarching power - like the US or China or whoever - that will "distribute" the resources (and we all know that they will just distribute them to themselves) or else people need to be able to take it or die.
24

Jim A,

26/06/2009 05:34:52
#18 Posty, "when will you Anglo-Saxons ever learn?" ???? So what's your ethnic background Posty, if you don't mind me asking of course.

Also why do you assume that folks are from an Anglo Saxon Background?
25

Bryan H.,

America, my home 26/06/2009 05:41:44
Ok, if you're going to get mad at George Bush then you also need to be mad at Nixon, Johnson, Eisenhower, Truman, Roosevelt, Wilson, Churchill, Lincoln, Washington and every other Ruler of every country that has been involved in any conflict. Innocent people die and it sickens me that you want to blame one person for this when so many others have done so much worse. But that doesn't seem to matter to anyone because instead of trying to fix the problem you all are too busy bickering about it. If you want something to change then you need to stand for change, support who you want to support but remember everyone is entitled to their own opinion and respect the fact that you are able to express.
26

Jim A,

26/06/2009 05:44:16
#25 Bryan, nah folks on here don't bicker mate, we spar sir, we spar.
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26/06/2009 05:50:23
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Mashimaro,

China 26/06/2009 05:55:33
#25 I must have missed people blaming this one on Bush
29

Bryan H.,

26/06/2009 05:56:11
Ya, that's my heritage and I'm just as proud of it as you are of your Chinese heritage so high five ;)
30

Bryan H.,

26/06/2009 05:58:27
#28
Oh, I'm sure they will, you know how the finger pointing goes and everyone needs a scapegoat, without that people might actually have to take responsibility for their actions
31

KampungHighlander,

Jakarta 26/06/2009 06:07:03
# 22 Bad Penny

"We don't make them, you don't use them/you don't ask for them, we don't make them."

So would you say that there was nothing wrong with the British Policy of the previous century of exporting Indian Grown Opium in return for Chinese Tea?

The AK 47, of which China is the Worlds largest exporter (Type 56) is estimated to kill 250,000 people every year in the third world.

Every year this Chinese export kills twice the number people than the combined totals of Afghanistan and Iraq for the entirety of those conflicts.

It even kills more people than died in Hiroshima and Nagasaki.

Its the equivalent of China annually dropping an Nuclear Warhead somewhere in the Third World.

What kills refugees in Darfur? Chinese AK47's

What kills people in Somalia? Chinese AK47's

What is killing unarmed protesters in Iran? Chinese AK47's






32

2dogs in D.C.,

26/06/2009 06:07:25
Jim,Our Postit's of Chinese decent,raised in Canada.His folks made it to safety during ww2,or some such,as I remember from old postings.I guess he just didn't care for the whole notion of being different in a "white"society,and I can get behind that,no problem,but,in all honesty,I can't say what's in our friends head.He does seem to hate everything about this hemisphere.If some Yank says Blue,you just know he's gonna say orange.If some Scot says orange,you just know he's gonna say blue.And so it goes.
33

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26/06/2009 06:17:05
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34

Bryan H.,

26/06/2009 06:23:02
lol, as I recall the french as well as one or two other countries became involved in our civil war but only in the background, they had a vested interest in having the south win. But that was over a 140 years ago so I could be wrong
35

KampungHighlander,

Jakarta 26/06/2009 06:23:41
# 23 Mashi

"One of the greatest problems we have in the world today - the single greatest problem no one ever wants to admit to - is over population. Earth is a finite resource. People have to die."

So do you think that the factory owners that sold all the tainted milk in China where doing a public service?

Maybe you should be lobbying your Government to make them "Heroes Of The Revolution" rather than prosecuting for all the children they killed.

If that is Chinese Government Policy it would explain a lot.

"Harsh, yes. Genetic lottery, yes"

A more honest answer than Bad Penny about why you like selling AK47's to African's.

So you think African's are Genetically inferior to Chinese People, maybe you could provide us a list of the various races and which ones you think are superior.

I am sure that just like Hitler you will have your own ethnicity at the top.
36

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26/06/2009 06:27:05
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37

KampungHighlander,

26/06/2009 06:33:04
# 33 Bad Penny

"I'm 100% against the death penalty, 100% against torture, against most abortions,"

So since you believe that we should all concentrate on fixing our own countries problems why do you spend all your time talkng to us Gui Lo when you should be lobbying your Government who is the World Leader in the Death Penalty, Torture and abortions?

Or are you just a hypocrite?
38

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26/06/2009 06:33:17
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39

KampungHighlander,

26/06/2009 06:38:08
# 36 Bad Penny

The Problem with your Car Argument is that Cars kill people when people operate them improperly while an AK47 is by its very design meant for killing people.

You really are a sad indictment of the quality of Canadian Educational System.
40

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26/06/2009 06:40:19
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41

2dogs in D.C.,

26/06/2009 06:43:13
Pretty good point,there #36.But maybe if we all,and I include us in the U.S.,made them a bit more pricey,maybe there'd be fewer.But that's like closing the barn door after the horse is gone-too late now.Weapons have reached the point of damned near zero survivability.You get hit with the missiles/bombs of today,not to mention the nukes,chances are you nor your kin are walking away from it.And if you do,well then the grunt on the ground has a super gun just to take you out.I really don't think we,as humans,can breed faster than we,as humans can kill,and that sucks.
42

mk-ultra,

Edinburgh 26/06/2009 06:43:17
And obviously Anglo-American intelligence services have nothing to do with the chaos in Iran have they ?
What a ridiculous idea......

"Bush sanctions 'black ops' against Iran"

"President George W Bush has given the CIA approval to launch covert "black" operations to achieve regime change in Iran, intelligence sources have revealed.

Mr Bush has signed an official document endorsing CIA plans for a propaganda and disinformation campaign intended to destabilise, and eventually topple, the theocratic rule of the mullahs."

Full article.....

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/1552784/Bush-sanctions-black-ops-against-Iran.html

http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2008/07/07/080707fa_fact_hersh
43

2dogs in D.C.,

26/06/2009 06:45:35
And yer wrong,it's orange.
44

Mashimaro,

China 26/06/2009 06:47:31
BadPenny... don't feed the kami fish. No matter how much it bites. You know it just leaves a sea of red when it's losing.

However, on reflection, lest I get called a racist *gasp* I shall say not a "genetic lottery" as much as a time-space-continuim roll of the galactic dice. I, for one, think I am incredibly lucky to be who I am and where I am. lucky lucky lucky lucky me.
45

Mashimaro,

26/06/2009 06:49:52
#41 "I really don't think we,as humans,can breed faster than we,as humans can kill,and that sucks"

We do, we can. Would we want it the other way around?
46

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26/06/2009 06:50:04
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47

KampungHighlander,

Jakarta 26/06/2009 06:53:46
#36 Bad Penny

Your Car argument would work better as a defence of why it was Ok for the British to trade Opium for Tea, since opium does have some legitimate medical uses. It was only when the Chinese started misusing it that it became a problem.

An AK47 has one single use, killing people.
48

2dogs in D.C.,

26/06/2009 07:02:07
Mashi,old cyber friend,it takes nine months to birth a child.It takes how long to pull a trigger? The pulled trigger can take both mother and child. The nuke can take how many more?No,man,read where I said that sucks.
49

KampungHighlander,

Jakarta 26/06/2009 07:03:27
# 44 Mashi

"BadPenny... don't feed the kami fish. No matter how much it bites. You know it just leaves a sea of red when it's losing."

I would never under any circumstances press the "Report Unsuitable" button for two reasons.

1. I believe in absolute freedom of speech.

2. You and Bad Penny make some really stupid statements that I think should be there for all to see.
50

KampungHighlander,

Jakarta 26/06/2009 07:08:59
# 44 Mashi

"I, for one, think I am incredibly lucky to be who I am and where I am. lucky lucky lucky lucky me."

Much luckier than those who have the misfortune to be born in countries awash in your AK47's.
51

2dogs in D.C.,

26/06/2009 07:16:59
#47-Kumpung-ect-You mean people in Jarkarta don't hunt white tail deer w/ak's? Damn,we do it all the time in Alaska.Just ask Gov. Palin.(or was that wolves from helos,I'm hazy on that).
52

Mashimaro,

China 26/06/2009 07:20:51
#48, but it doesn't work like that gau gau. Look at how the world population is climbing - those Tibetans are just breeding like rabbits. Every time you turn around, there's another one. (that was a joke, in case any of you are too dumb to see it). After all the wars and famines and tsunamis and quakes and plagues... there are more of us than ever before.
53

Mashimaro,

China 26/06/2009 07:27:38
I'm much luckeir than hmmm I'd say at least 2/3 of the world's population. I have food, water, clothing, housing, health care, a job... thank you communists... thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you.
If it weren't for you I might just be a heap of bones under some emperor's wall. Or I might just be some illterate rice farmer, or some fat white slug mesmerised by the telly and sucking back macdonalds. I might be some poor Tibetan boy, taken from my home and abused by foul monks, infected with their sexual diseases, beaten daily, forced into menial slavery while my family are starved of precious yak butter so that it can be burned to the great "gods".
Yes, indeed, thank you communism!
54

KampungHighlander,

Jakarta 26/06/2009 07:31:30
# 51 2Dogs in DC

If you wanted to hunt White Tail Deer in Jakarta you would have to go to Ragunan Zoo, and they have a no shooting the exhibits policy.

We do have Red Deer in Indonesia and you can hunt them but since only the Police, Army and Shooting Ranges are allowed to have firearms you would have to hunt them with a bow.

People who would choose to hunt with an automatic weapon are inbred trailer trash. The AK47 is so popular because it is a "pray and spray" weapon and works well for use by half wits and children. Which would explain why the Palin's have one.

55

KampungHighlander,

Jakarta 26/06/2009 07:42:51
# 53 Mashi

I think you are lucky for the time you where born not the place.

If you had been around during the "Great Leap Forward" or "Cultural Revolution" you may not have felt so lucky.

# 53

"Yes, indeed, thank you communism!"

Maybe that should be Thank You Capitalism For Bringing Prosperity To China.


56

2dogs in D.C.,

26/06/2009 07:45:06
"For there are many ways to kill a man these days-with bayonet,ax or sword,but a snipers fire from a shapeless guise,leaves but the shell of a Thompson Gun.Walk away me boy,walk away me boy and tomorrow we'll be free,wipe that golden tear,from your mother dear,and raise what's left of the flag for me."Flogging Mollie.
57

Jim A,

26/06/2009 07:45:41
#54 KampungHighlander "People who would choose to hunt with an automatic weapon are inbred trailer trash".

I don't think it's legal anywhere to hunt with automatic weapons, is it?


58

Jim A,

26/06/2009 07:46:53
#53 Mashi, "I'm much luckeir than hmmm I'd say at least 2/3 of the world's population. I have food, water,"

Enjoy it while it lasts mate. :-(
59

2dogs in D.C.,

26/06/2009 07:50:51
#54-I was making that same point-You don't us a machine gun to hunt,come on.
60

2dogs in D.C.,

26/06/2009 07:57:17
Jim,maybe under Palin's Alaska. Mashi,@52-No ones declared total nuke war yet. Give us time,and I'm sure we'll screw it up.
61

Jim A,

26/06/2009 08:06:49
#59 Doubledog, I'm not long out of bed here, first lay in bed for weeks. Gimme a break here man.

Well either way the deer would be past caring what shot it, make a terrible mess of the meat though.
62

KampungHighlander,

26/06/2009 08:08:54
# 57

I am not an expert on worldwide firearms law so I couldn't tell which jurisdictions allow or disallow hunting with Automatic Weapons.

But I do know that Semi Automatic AK47's can be purchased in the States and then can be modified with a legal mail order kit to Fully Automatic.

One interesting phenomenon that I have heard about is that poachers in Africa now use Chinese made RPG's to hunt elephant and rhino's and then export the Ivory to China for use in Chinese Traditional Medicine.

In Indonesia they use local grown poisoned pineapples but the Ivory still goes to China.
63

Mashimaro,

China 26/06/2009 08:09:02
#55 I didn't mention prosperity, and we had all those things before capitalism "came to China".
64

Mashimaro,

China 26/06/2009 08:16:30
#58 I am, mate. I am. Positively basking.
65

Jim A,

26/06/2009 08:21:36
#62 KampungHighlander, " But I do know that Semi Automatic AK47's can be purchased in the States and then can be modified with a legal mail order kit to Fully Automatic".

If you mean the Hellfire triggers forget it, they are rubbish, as in don't work without bumping the trigger.

Anything else has to be approved and licenced by the U.S. Bureau of Alcohol Firearms Tobacco and Explosives. I'm also pretty sure that no one may hunt with a fully automatic firearm in any US state.
66

Jim A,

26/06/2009 08:22:31
#64 Mashi, glad to hear it old son.
67

Jim A,

26/06/2009 08:24:39
Hey young Pup, your up rather late aren't you? Or early, ok let me do the sums her, I figure it's around 3:30am round your way.

Doubledog, do you hunt?
68

Jim A,

26/06/2009 08:34:42
Posty, Out of interest, may I ask why you chose a western name for you Dennis rather than a Chinese name? Or does he have a Chinese name which translates into Dennis?
69

Jim A,

26/06/2009 08:38:01
Doubledog, I do a fair bit of hunting here, mainly Roe deer but my favourite game is the Chinese Water Deer ;-) weird looking creatures, look like vampire deer.
70

KampungHighlander,

Jakarta 26/06/2009 08:41:42
# 65 JimA

"I'm also pretty sure that no one may hunt with a fully automatic firearm in any US state."

Just like speeding or smoking pot it may be illegal, that doesn't mean that it doesn't happen all the time.
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26/06/2009 10:09:14
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26/06/2009 10:12:27
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26/06/2009 10:55:31
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drunken proffet,

Tassy 26/06/2009 11:03:40
I still think it was a mistake to give women the vote. However on the purely male vote that recognises
Mahmoud Ahmadinejad as the true voice of Iran, have you looked at the other great leaders and teachers of the twentieth century. Adolph Hitler, Stalin, Mussolini, to a certain degree. Get in there Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, you are in with the best of them. Write your memoirs, but with a bit of speed. With a bit of luck you could retire to a nice sea side resort in Saudi Arabie.
75

2dogs in D.C.,

26/06/2009 17:08:47
Jim,sorry,yeah it was late/early.And I faded into the slumber.I used to hunt,but gave it up.Whitetail,and when I lived in Colorado,'lopes.Used a Remington 30-06,w/4X scope,and really was not to good,not enough practice.But,we fun.
76

2dogs in D.C.,

26/06/2009 17:09:52
Where did "had" get off too,above?
77

mike - across the pond,

mashi mashi mashi... 26/06/2009 19:04:38
you almost had me...

then you went to "somalia is about fish"... uh no... somalia is about warlords controlling their territory... and killing everyone and everything that threatens that control

Iraq is about oil... your ignorance is showing... you cannot seriously claim to be informed if you claim that the US is in Iraq for its oil... the oil from Iraq DOES NOT END UP IN US PORTS... again, Iraq (saddam's cadre) was about a warlord controlling their territory by brutally suppressing their people to control that territory (WITH YOUR BELOVED CHINA'S HELP)

Darfur is about water... uh maybe... but again, its about WARLORDS, retaining their deathgrip on power... which has NOTHING to do with water... other than they might be USING the water to control the people

you claim Tibet is about water... REALLY? lets just say for a moment that Tibet decided to keep all that water that now flows into China... pray tell, WHERE are you goint to put/store all that water? without being TOO comical... can you please explain to us all how that might work? giant dams? 5 million liter bottles in every basement? everybody with their own portable drinking fountian to drink their 100 gallons of water an hour? (ever hear of nutremia?) its absolutely absurd to make that claim...
78

mike - across the pond,

and whomever is deleting the posts.... 26/06/2009 19:07:39
STOP IT....

it makes debate nearly impossible...
79

mike - across the pond,

JimA 26/06/2009 19:14:55
um as far as hunting with automatic weapons

why?

one good shot is all it takes any hunter worth his/her weight in water... AND bolt action is inherently more accurate... providing you are using a weapon worth ITS weight in water...

if you are just out "plinking" none of that really matters anyway... and why would you bother with taking the time to stalk live game?

speaking of plinking... wheres the article on the Russian/Somali Pirate Hunting Cruises? now THERE's some sport!!!!
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alan mirs,

Tehran 26/06/2009 20:35:50
Divide and rule, an old British political posture to colonize
Evaluation of the world’s stance towards Iran prior to and following the election, one could grasp the betrayal of politician’s act, in any developed country such as USA the oppositions, following smearing each other fiercely, even if there are uncertainties about the election, are the first to congratulate the president elect, and offer their support, intentional perform to destabilize one’s vulnerable country is treason, and treachery is an offence, it should be dealt with accordingly
81

Carolyn 1,

26/06/2009 20:41:26
Mashimaro@23
As usual, Carolyn's hypocrisy leaves us breathless."

> China provides Sudan with assault rifles, heavy machine guns, and mortars and acts as its "military adviser." China has sold more than $55million in arms to Darfur in the past few years.



Now Mashimaro, will you kindly explain to me the value of purchasing $55 million of weaponry from China insetad of purchasing $55 million of infrastructure to improve the lives of these truly desperate people, to build hospitals and schools, educate and pay teachers and doctors.
Millions is spent on food and medical aid, but much of it never makes it to the people because the trucks are under fire and attacked by.... yup... you guessed it- the tyrannical madmen armed to the gills with Chinese weapons....

Evidently hypocrisy is one the many words that has been modified in meaning under communist rule
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Carolyn 1,

26/06/2009 20:51:25
#53 Mashimaro,China 26/06/2009 07:27:38
I'm much luckeir than hmmm I'd say at least 2/3 of the world's population."


What an arrogant statement.
No matter how financially comfortable I have been in my life, I could never live in a communist society, or a tyrannical theocracy, not even in the top rung, because to do so requires beating down, and keeping down the majority of the population. For those like Mashimaro and Skidmark who lord over those ants of people, yes life is surely lucky for them.....

to me, the expense of stripping the sancity and dignity of life that every human being under you deserves, is a tragedy; a tragedy because you do it and gloat, and a tragedy because they cannot get out from under it.
Iran no different.
83

mike - across the pond,

carolyn 26/06/2009 22:51:06
mashi IS much luckier....

his parents escaped china for Canaduh YEARS ago...

HE doesnt live in a communist country, never has, never will, mainly because HE is tainted by westernized society.... and would be imprisoned, or worse were his shadow to fall upon the soil of his forefathers... further, chances are he lives within 100 miles of that much maligned US health care...

and like a true self loathing westerner (westerner, a title that chaffes him to his very core) he lambastes EVERY virtuous thing the sacrifices OUR forefathers made for the liberties HE pretends to eschew... from the safety of his residence in the shadow of a "western" civilized country

and I am thinking Posty is there too...
84

Mashimaro,

China Mike Mike MIke 27/06/2009 02:14:50
#77 I said Somalia piracy is about fish... not Somalia. The warlord thing could have been sorted out ages ago if the west had just left them alone. Of course the US arming and funding and training Ethiopian troops to go in and slaughter folks in Somalia has NOTHING to do with US oil companies Chevron, Conoco, Amoco and Phillips sitting on a possible fortune in exclusive right to oil and land in the country. Not even I, the wascally wabbit would be so cold as to suggest that all the misery and pain brought on by the constant state of war in Somalia was America's fault. No... better to blame China and Japan for fishing too much.
Iraq? Oh please Dude... It was none of the world's business. Iraq was a secular society and the west's oil giants who are in bed with the mad mullhas couldn't have that on their borders. Besides, Iraq has all that light, sweet crude and Saddam had the temerity to decide he might not want to sell it to the west. Let's remind ourselves that this was the same "despot" the west had been supporting for years in the hopes of breaking Iran. You'll notice that before Saddam was deposed there was no Al QciAda in Iraq but there is now. Mmmm
Please explain to us how China was helping to keep Saddam in power and then explain to us how the US had been helping him to stay in power.
85

Mashimaro,

China 27/06/2009 02:23:41
#81 you obviously have China confused with America who has to explain its arms sales in countries by way of "charity" deals and idealistic dogma. We sold them some weapons. Big whoop. We are not a charity. We do business with the people who run the country. Once again your hypocristy is breath taking.
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Mashimaro,

China 27/06/2009 02:32:57
"What an arrogant statement.
No matter how financially comfortable I have been in my life, I could never live in a communist society, or a tyrannical theocracy, not even in the top rung, because to do so requires beating down, and keeping down the majority of the population. For those like Mashimaro and Skidmark who lord over those ants of people, yes life is surely lucky for them..... "

And.... once again... the hypocriscy is BREATH TAKING dude... BREATH TAKING...

What violence do you think it takes for you to live in the US as you do huh? Look inside your soul Carolyn. Look at the miserable Mexicans slaving away in your fields and in you meat packing plants and go from there.
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27/06/2009 02:37:06
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,

27/06/2009 17:07:36
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,

27/06/2009 19:43:02
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Carolyn 1,

27/06/2009 21:56:10
@86
Look inside your soul Carolyn. Look at the miserable Mexicans slaving away in your fields and in you meat packing plants and go from there."


When I look inside my soul I see a woman who just spent the last 24 hours in the walk for cancer relay to raise money and awareness. Working and walking with this group of people, I am always amazed at the great kindness of Americans, the countless number of complete strangers who help each other through their darkest hours.

That's what small town America is. That is the democracy we live in.

As for the poor Mexicans who come to America trying to find a better life, even if working illegally and here illegally, they will receive the same treatment in the hospital that I do. That's why they come and do not want to leave!!

If that's hypocracy, then I wish it were in every corner of the globe
91

Mashimaro,

China 28/06/2009 02:20:34
#90 Yay, some people walked for cancer. Good for you. There are many decent people in the world. Unfortunately your government is not among them...
Tell me... do you know why those poor Mexicans have to work in the US, risk being shot at, dying as they travel across the border, never being allowed to own a home in the country they're working in? LIving like fugatives all their lives? Do you?
Let me tell you, sweeite... your mighty american government poured money over to your corn farmers to grow nothing but corn... corn...corn... and to sell it at impossibly low prices. Poured money in, honey... see... lots of money meant that US farmers could sell corn at far below what it actually costs to produce. (As an aside, this is the very same corn that you send off to those starving Africans crashing their little economies and agricultural sectors making them forever dependent on, well, US corn. This is the very same corn you feed your cattle on and get them so fat, and this is the very same corn you shove down your people's throats at every concievable turn to make them so fat too). This corn, your government allowed, to flood the Mexican market and put one million Mexican corn farmers out of work, right on your border.
that allowed your food companies to fire your US workers to whom they had to pay a living wage, and give decent benefits, and employ the washed up Mexican farmers for half the price and in unsafe conditions. Of course these people can't unionise or make any noise about improving their conditions cos the cops just come along and arrest the trouble makers and ship em home. Loverly... loverly... loverly... the Brits go over slavery a long time ago.... the US does it bigger and better than anyone else.
92

Mashimaro,

China 28/06/2009 02:28:11
#90 So sweet Carolyn if you've swallowed that rubbish put out on slyfox news about how Pepe and his family are just gagging to get to America for all that free health care (er what free health care) maybe you might want to say to your governemnt that you're not as stupid as they like to make you out. That Pepe and his family are being hugely exploited because your government crashed their home economy and they have to go work for the gringo or starve. Maybe you might want to start asking why all that money has been poured into your corn industry and whose bank accounts are getting fat along with your less-well-off people's butt lines. Because that "health" you talk about is a complete sham. Look at your increasing cases of diabetes and obesity and then realise that it's cheaper for a family to buy a few fatty carb-loaded fast food meals and sugared chemicals as drinks than to afford healthy fruit and vegetables.
You guys are getting so cheated and robbed by your government that you're punch drunk. You just don't want to look under the bed incase the monster gets you. So you sit on the bed and paint your nails and look at your sweet little barbie dolls and think all is well with the world. It's not hon... it's not.
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28/06/2009 05:42:50
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Blogman,

Atlantis 28/06/2009 15:08:00
Good luck to Iran and whoever they choose.
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JOHN CHUCKMAN,

CANADA 04/07/2009 14:42:23

A recent article called “Ahmadinejad Won, Get Over It” by Flynt and Hillary Leverett is not the only source with serious credentials offering reasonable, non-sensational explanations for events around Iran’s presidential election.

Kaveh Afrasiabi, a scholar who once taught at Tehran University and is the author of several books, says many of the same things.

Close analysis of the election results gives absolutely no objective basis for making charges of a rigged election. Mousavi’s expected win – expected, that is, by the Western press and by Mousavi himself - never had any basis in fact.

Afrasiabi also tells us that Ahmadinejad is extremely popular with the poor in Iran, a very large constituency, and he tells us further that Ahmadinejad spent a great deal of time traveling through the country during his first term listening to them.

Ahmadinejad is himself a man of fairly humble origins with a good deal of genuine sympathy for the poor.
Of course, the public in the West has been treated to a barrage of propaganda about Ahmadinejad, conditioned by countless disingenuous stories and editorials to regard him as the essence of evil, ready to stir up trouble at a moment’s notice. These perceptions, too, have no basis in fact.

Ahmadinejad is a highly educated man, ready and willing to communicate with leaders in the West, although given to poking fun at some of the shibboleths we hold to. His office as president is not a powerful one in an Iran where power is divided amongst several groups, just as it is in the United States. He has no war-making power.

Even his infamous statement about Israel – mistranslated consistently to make it sound terrible – was nothing more than the same kind of statement made by the CIA in its secret study predicting the peaceful end of today’s Israel in twenty years or the statement by Libya’s leader, Gaddafi, saying Israel would be drowned in a sea of Arabs. Unpleasant undoubtedly for some, the statement was neither cr
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JOHN CHUCKMAN,

CANADA 04/07/2009 14:44:16
CONT'D

Unpleasant undoubtedly for some, the statement was neither criminal nor threatening when properly understood.

The post-election troubles in Iran definitely reflect the interference of security services from at least the United States and Britain. We have several serious pieces of evidence.

First, Iran discovered and arrested just recently a group with sophisticated bomb equipment from Britain. They were caught red-handed, although our press has chosen to be pretty much silent on the matter. Of course, we all recall the arrest of a group of fifteen British sailors a couple of years ago, an event treated in our press as the snatching of innocents on the high seas when in fact they were on a secret mission in disputed waters claimed by Iran.

Robert Fisk recently wrote an excellent piece about photocopies of what purported to be a confidential official government report to the head of state, Supreme Leader Ali Khamenei, regarding the election results. It attributed a ridiculously small share of the vote to Ahmadinejad and was somehow being waved by Mousavi’s followers all over the streets. It seems clearly invented as a provocation, much in the fashion of the famous “yellow cake” document before America’s invasion of Iraq.

We know that Bush committed several hundred million dollars towards a program creating instability in Iran and that Obama has never renounced the operation.

Iran, surrounded by threatening enemies and the daily recipient of dire threats from Israel and the United States, has absolutely no history of aggression: it has started no conflicts in its entire modern era, but naturally enough it becomes concerned about its security when threatened by nuclear-armed states.

Such threats from the United States are not regarded idly by anyone, coming as they do, from a nation occupying two nations of Western and Central Asia, a nation whose invasions have caused upwards of a million deaths and sent at least two million into exile as r
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JOHN CHUCKMAN,

CANADA 04/07/2009 14:45:27
CONT'D

It is a nation moreover that definitely threatened, behind the scenes, to use nuclear weapons against Afghanistan immediately after 9/11, helping end that threat being one of the main reasons for Britain’s joining the pointless invasion in the first place.

In assessing the genuine threats in the world, please remember what we all too often forget: the United States is the only nation ever actually to use nuclear weapons, twice, on civilians. It also came close to using them again in the early 1950s hysteria over communism – twice, once against China and once in a pre-emptive strike at the Soviet Union - and again later considered using them in Vietnam.

As for the other regular source of threats against, Israel, it is a nation which has attacked every neighbor that it has at one time or another. In the last two years alone, it has killed more people in Lebanon and Gaza than the number who perished in 9/11. It is also a secret nuclear power, having broken every rule and international law to obtain and assist in proliferating nuclear weapons.

Of course, there are many middle class people in Iran who would like a change of government. Such yearnings are no secret and exist everywhere in the world where liberal government is missing, including millions of Americans under years of George Bush and his motivating demon, Dick Cheney.

But saying that is not the same thing as saying that a majority of Iran’s people want a change in government or that the election was a fraud.

And remember, too, Iran had a democratic government more than half a century ago, that of Mohammed Mosaddeq, but it was overthrown in 1953 and the bloody Shah installed in its place by the very same governments now meddling in Iran, the United States and Britain.
98

Rattlesnake,

15/07/2009 15:54:41
I guess they were silenced. Mousavi claimed victory even before the voting was finished.

 

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