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Wrong MSPs elected in poll fiasco

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Published Date: 18 May 2008
THE expert appointed to investigate last year's Scottish Parliament election fiasco has said some MSPs may have no right to sit at Holyrood.
Elections watchdog Ron Gould revealed he is "not comfortable" with the view that all 129 MSPs elected last year actually received more votes than their opponents. He blames the farce in which more than 140,000 ballots were spoiled.

Gould's astonishing comments last night threw a cloud of uncertainty over the Scottish Parliament's integrity, and over the SNP's historic victory.

Last May, First Minister Alex Salmond won power on the back of a one seat victory over Labour. One constituency, Cunninghame North, was won with a majority of just 49. It later emerged that 1,015 votes had been spoilt. In other seats the spoiled papers outweighed the winner's majority, suggesting different results could have emerged if they had been counted.

Gould's comments were given to MPs on Westminster's Scottish Affairs Committee, which today publishes a hard-hitting report that says the aftermath of the vote was a "disaster" for Scottish democracy.

However, it insists that as all the parties accepted last May's result, there could be no prospect of reopening the entire ballot.

Gould's comments, made in January, are revealed in the MPs' final report. Their summary declares: "We asked Ron Gould, who conducted an independent review of the elections, whether he was comfortable that everybody who now serves in the Scottish Parliament deserved to be there. He responded: 'Frankly no, I am not comfortable with that.'"

The unprecedented number of spoiled papers was blamed largely on the decision to hold both the Scottish Parliament and Westminster votes on the same day, combined with the decision to put the two Holyrood ballots on the same piece of paper. A new electronic counting system further complicated matters.

Gould last year slammed both the Scotland Office and the then Scottish Executive, claiming voters were "treated as an afterthought" by politicians who organised the vote and put "partisan interests" ahead of the public good.

Allan Wilson, the losing Labour candidate in Cunninghame North, said he believed he had won the vote. "If you look at where the spoiled ballot papers were, it is easy to work out that the majority of them would have been Labour voters."

In Edinburgh East, there were 2,521 spoiled ballot papers. The winning majority, gained by SNP candidate Kenny MacAskill, was only 1,382. In Livingston, the SNP candidate Angela Constance won by 870 seats but there were 1,634 spoiled ballots.

In Linlithgow, Labour candidate Mary Mulligan won by 1,150 votes, but there were 1,722 spoiled papers. In Dunfermline West, Lib Dem Jim Tolson won by 476 votes – far fewer than the 757 spoiled papers.

In the summary, the MPs ascribe blame partly to the Scotland Office. It claims "lengthy delays disrupted election planning and led to weak contingency arrangements". The MPs also criticise the Electoral Commission, saying they did not do enough to anticipate the problems.

However, it concludes that power for future elections should not be handed over to the Scottish Parliament. Labour MP Mohammad Sarwar, committee chairman, added: "This is not the time for a quick fix solution, but a chance to move forward and ensure that the disastrous situation of May 3 is not repeated."

Labour Party figures last night said they did not want to reopen the election result. Livingston MP Jim Devine, a committee member, said: "This was not about a Labour MP huffing away about losing the election. We just have to make sure that this kind of thing doesn't happen again."

A spokesman for the Scotland Office said: "When the Gould report was initially published, we immediately accepted five core recommendations which will have a positive effect on the experience of voters in elections."

The Scotland Office will soon publish its response to Gould. A Scottish Government spokesman said: "The results have been universally accepted and no challenges were mounted beyond those rejected on election night. The report does not cast doubt on the result.

"The only way to address the legislative and managerial fragmentation identified by Gould is to transfer full responsibility to Scotland."

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  • Last Updated: 19 May 2008 10:10 AM
  • Source: Scotland On Sunday
  • Location: Scotland
  • Related Topics: Holyrood Elections
 
1

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18/05/2008 00:09:42
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karinxxx,

18/05/2008 00:18:28
alfred whats your game?

You know you will just get moderated.

Wouldnt you rather dicsuss the idea that douglas alexander and westminster and the labour party and liberal democrats are to blame for the fiasco at the scottish elections in 2007.
3

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18/05/2008 00:19:40
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18/05/2008 00:22:15
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Vivas,

Edinburgh 18/05/2008 00:23:33
"threw a cloud of uncertainty over the Scottish Parliament's integrity, and over the SNP's historic victory."

I guess we've not had one of these "cloud over", "hammer blow to", "sent reeling" ... type of pieces in reference to the SNP for a few days. I guess this one was overdue from The Northbritishman.

As regards the election ? Yeah it was a feck up. Old news. Cold porridge. It's a year past. I guess your employers still haven't snapped out of their depression from the result. But a year is a long time to be this fed up about something. Time to get some counselling perhaps and move on.
6

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18/05/2008 00:25:20
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Rob - Honest Toun,

18/05/2008 00:25:40
"the decision to hold both the Scottish Parliament and Westminster votes on the same day"

Whit Westminster election wis that then? Are ye shuir ye're no gettin mixed up wi the Scottish Local Government elections?
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18/05/2008 00:33:05
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18/05/2008 00:34:32
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18/05/2008 00:36:40
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Guga II,

Rockall 18/05/2008 00:38:36
The Scottish elections should be under the direct control of the Scottish parliament and thus the Scottish people. We are perfectly capable of running our own affairs as well as our own elections.

Westminster trying to retain control of the Scottish elections is tantamount to the English government continuing to treat us as a colony. If that situation is allowed to prevail it would be a total insult to the Scottish people.

In any event, it was the New Labour Sleaze and Corruption Party, in London, who were totally responsible for the fiasco of the last Scottish elections. They have proven themselves incompetent and corrupt in trying to manipulate our elections to suit their party politics.

It is also totally disgusting that any foreign or colonial power should think that they have the right to control our elections. The days of the British Raj have long gone, and will, hopefully, be followed into oblivion by their defunct and archaic union.
12

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18/05/2008 00:42:19
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18/05/2008 00:47:59
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karinxxx,

18/05/2008 00:48:00
and if the headline wasnst a propaganda for the labour party it could just as easily have said.

RIGHT MSPs elected in poll fiasco.............


Like all propaganda that is printed in the scottish press we should look at this and say where is the evidence? There is no evidence to show that the statement

Allan Wilson, the losing Labour candidate in Cunninghame North, said he believed he had won the vote. "If you look at where the spoiled ballot papers were, it is easy to work out that the majority of them would have been Labour voters."


This would be allan wilson who was going to mount a legal challenge and didnt because he knew he would lose.

What about the areas that would have went to the snp or the conservatives or the lib dems?
15

karinxxx,

18/05/2008 00:49:02
sorry that should have said

and if the headline wasnst a propaganda for the labour party it could just as easily have said.

RIGHT MSPs elected in poll fiasco.............


Like all propaganda that is printed in the scottish press we should look at this and say where is the evidence? There is no evidence to show that the statement

Allan Wilson, the losing Labour candidate in Cunninghame North, said he believed he had won the vote. "If you look at where the spoiled ballot papers were, it is easy to work out that the majority of them would have been Labour voters."

IS CORRECT AND FACTUAL.


This would be allan wilson who was going to mount a legal challenge and didnt because he knew he would lose.

What about the areas that would have went to the snp or the conservatives or the lib dems?
16

karinxxx,

18/05/2008 00:50:36
The truth is that this fiasco has been given a labour spin by the scotsman if this article was truly unbiased it would have mentioned that democracy and not an individual party was the loser here and by far the greatest losers were the voting public.
17

karinxxx,

18/05/2008 00:55:11
Mr barnes would you care to explain why your paper has a labour spin attached to every article and why you do not provied fair and unbiased journalism.

also would you like to mention how many of your journalists are members of the labour party how many are members of the snp conservatives lib dems etc?
(without naming names of course)

If you wouldnt like to do this in the interest of transparency and to prove that you are not in fact biased either intentionally or unintentionally would you therefore like to explain WHY NOT?

18

Steve,

18/05/2008 00:55:23
THIS PAPER IS A DISGRACE.
19

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18/05/2008 01:03:06
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18/05/2008 01:18:53
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Harry Shanks,

Rutherglen 18/05/2008 01:29:08
Well this explains everything!

No wonder Lord George Foulkes got elected!

Hic!
22

Harry Shanks,

Rutherglen 18/05/2008 01:32:42
No need to worry dear readers - now that the local govt recruitment advertising is to be withdrawn - I give the Scotsman (aka Pravda We love Gordy & Wendy) and its associated rags about 12 months at most.

Happy Days!
23

2Right,

On Location 18/05/2008 01:55:33
Was Kenny MacAskill elected we want to know ?
24

urban poacher,

Edinburgh 18/05/2008 01:59:11
interesting d alexander in charge and w alexander ruining things now how long before this pair are removed or are labour just putting hierarchies before success
25

Allan(handofgod137),

18/05/2008 02:02:34
Wonder how many of the "spoiled" papers were for the BNP.
26

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18/05/2008 02:48:54
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An Beal Bacht,

18/05/2008 02:55:26
I agree with 31 - in spades!

Bring it on.
28

Navvy,

18/05/2008 03:32:16
Worra load of rubish

The spoilt wotes were an should not be counted. If people can not follow simple instructions, my 90 year old mother managed, then they do not deserve a vote
29

W Smith,

Middle East 18/05/2008 03:50:34
So Kenny MacAskill only got in on a 'majority' of 1,382 when there was 2,521 spoiled ballot papers then, eh?

Is our Justice Minister demanding a re-count?

This is 'democracy' - Zimbabwe style!

No wonder Salmond can write nice letters to ballot fixing Mugabe.

Its time......



.... for a re-count.
30

Snuffy Ivy,

18/05/2008 04:50:00
"....comfortable with everyone who is currently serving in the Scottish Parliament..........................?" (and Ron Gould said "NO")
THAT IS AN OPINION ...........NOT A FACT!
31

Watson,

Irvine 18/05/2008 06:23:27
PTDOUG said:

The Scotsman Circulation...

2000 100,000 +
2001 79,000
2002 82,270
2003 72,200
2004 69,600
2005 65,392
2006 57,866
2007 55,175
2008 45,000 (with freebies deducted)

The word "freefall" springs to mind.

It was also reported in the TV News that Scottish local authorities were not going to place job vacancies in "news" papers. This will result in a loss of revenue both from the fees charged and from job seekers looking at the situations vacant. Will the Scottish Government follow suit?
32

DGR,

Coolangatta 18/05/2008 06:49:39
Me'thinks that Mugabe wants to get in touch with the Scottish Electoral Commission for help with the Zimbabwe election most urgently. Please pass the request on.
33

bully wee alba,

Edinburgh 18/05/2008 07:35:05
#49

Yes, and what a master stroke for the SNP to disguise their “shock troops” by dressing them up in union jacks and have them sing anti-Scottish folk ditties as well as disparaging tunes referring to causing harm to those who would support Irish Independence.

Either that, or you should not be let out on your own.
34

donald,

glasgow 18/05/2008 07:40:54
Settle it now. Bring it on!
35

Suomi,

Salo,Finland 18/05/2008 07:46:56
Interesting one sided conclusion that Labour lost seats as a result of the poll chaos.I have often wondered whether the poll chaos robbed the SNP of a more substantual victory.We will never know but the opinion polls at the time of the election suggest that is a logical conclusion.There is also a lot of evidence that there was postal vote fraud in the Govan constituency that reduced the size of Nicola Sturgeon's majority.
I notice that Allan Wilson was provided with yet another opportunity to complain.I don't know what happened in Cunningham North but the really important lesson is that the election chaos in May 2007 should never happen again.I would also remind Allan Wilson that an independent nationalist candidate who was a serving regional MSP got around 4400 votes in Cunningham North.He had been originally elected as an SNP member and had four years to build up a profile in the North Cunningham constituency.If he had not been standing,I think that it is very likely that the majority of the winning SNP candidate would have been considerably larger.If Wilson cannot win when the nationalist vote was split,he has a hard task in the future.
36

Richard Taylor,

Aberdeen 18/05/2008 07:51:42
For Eddie Barnes:

Should you actually stumble onto the comments, can you answer just WHY the Scotsman still thinks Scotland should reamin in a bankrupt & corrupt union, where the so-called "merger of equals" means everything of substance is decided in London & we have to rely on crumbs from Westmincester?
37

Red Tower,

Dunoon 18/05/2008 07:56:52
I think Salmond should do a Wendy right now. He should declare that this report highlights such a gross failure of the electoral system that he has no alternative than to ask all parties to demand that the election should be re-run now.
38

Richardinho,

18/05/2008 08:01:06
The returning officer's decision is final. It would be absolute chaos to go back now and try and count every single vote that might have not been counted properly.

The lesson is that next time we should get it right.

I'm sceptical about the labour claims that 'they would have won' had it not been for the disorganization of the poll-but let us remember that they must take most of the blame for organizing it. The running of Scottish elections is a reserved matter and the person in charge was labour party stooge Douglas Alexander.

Several of his actions can only be interpreted in terms of trying to secure party advantage in the most cynical way, so there is a rich irony if the labour party lost as a result.
39

C U Jimmy,

East Ayrshire 18/05/2008 08:01:12
Typical Labour organization on running the election,in spite of the warnings they got, and the result serves them right, they couldn't run a stall at Paddy's Market.
40

Richardinho,

18/05/2008 08:03:03
I'd like to ask Eddie why he didn't ask Malcolm Bruce's opinion on this?

shurely an oversight!
41

Cam3,

18/05/2008 08:05:18
However, it concludes that power for future elections should not be handed over to the Scottish Parliament. Labour MP Mohammad Sarwar, committee chairman, added: "This is not the time for a quick fix solution, but a chance to move forward and ensure that the disastrous situation of May 3 is not repeated."

Eh? Am I reading this correctly? I hadn't really anticipated that giving control of the Scottish vote to the Scottish Parliament was regarded as a 'quick fix solution' - what kind of moronic, bizarre and idiotic statement is that?

As long as it is a FIX solution and is run as IT SHOULD BE in this country!

"...but a chance to move forward and ensure that the disastrous situation of May 3 is not repeated..."

Ahhh, back to the Labour hands responsible for the mess in the first place then? Business a usual? Nothing to see here, move along, go back to sleep Scotland....

....good luck in rigging the next election as pro-Labour as possible Mrs Cairns and Alexander.

Can anyone else pick up on this please?

Can anyone else see that LABOUR ARE A NATIONAL DISGRACE AND ARE NOT TO BE TRUSTED???

And from Sarwar? ANOTHER bent LABOUR politician!!!
42

big big fun,

in the land of the censors 18/05/2008 08:17:13
why has the scotsman stopped anyone from commenting on the sports section ?
43

big big fun,

in the land of the censors 18/05/2008 08:17:33
why has the scotsman stopped anyone from commenting on the sports section ?
44

Alan B,

18/05/2008 08:25:01
And still Douglas Alexander was not forced to resign.

The running of elections in scotland must be devolved to the scottish parliament.

Can anyone give any reason why it is best for westminster to run a scottish election?

As we can see from the last one, their is a big problem of accountability when things go wrong.
45

Auld Twa,

Edinburgh 18/05/2008 08:25:53
Not a high level of research or local knowledge shown in this article, for example "...to hold both the Scottish Parliament and Westminster votes on the same day..."
Was Gould asked to nominate the seats where he felt the wrong MSP had been elected ? There is not necessarily a link between spoiled papers and the election result being correct. The only way would be to rerun the election and that would have need to have been done before many of the seats were declared if it was not going to influence the rerun.
46

Alan B,

18/05/2008 08:29:39
#Watson

"It was also reported in the TV News that Scottish local authorities were not going to place job vacancies in "news" papers. This will result in a loss of revenue both from the fees charged and from job seekers looking at the situations vacant. Will the Scottish Government follow suit?"

This is a very important point. It shows the power that the government can have in influencing editorial policy at newspapers.

I have long suspected that labour used this policy to ensure for party advantage.
47

big big fun,

18/05/2008 08:33:13
why has the scotsman stopped anyone from commenting on the rangers sports section ?
48

Cludgie,

18/05/2008 08:39:52
Eddie, Eddie, Eddie... Where to start? Never mind the wrong MSPs getting elected, clearly the Scotsman/SoS has employed the wrong staff... And we wonder why circulation is on the downturn. OK, go ahead blame the internet, if that makes you sleep better at night.
It was your unionist friends who organised this "poll fiasco", not the SNP. It was your unionist friends who ran the most negative election campaign in Scottish history and paid the price for that.
"This was not about a Labour MP huffing away about losing the election" says Labour's Jim Devine... sorry Jim the zip in the back of the Scottish electorate's head is up, whilst Labour's popularity and that of SoS is firmly on the decline.
Question for Eddie... at what level does circulation have to reach before you a) start writing some balanced pieces? and b) retire?
49

Jimmy the Pie,

18/05/2008 08:42:23
I see the Sunday Hootsmoan has halved its cover price in the Highlands and Islands editions. Even at this price I wouldn't consider buying it until there was some writing worth reading.

Yes Eddie, so that means you'll have to move along!!
50

Navvy,

18/05/2008 08:50:02
A thick illiterate electorate will always result in spoilt votes.

Many countries have multiple votes on the same paper. The recent Malaysian General election had federal and state votes on the same paper and ther were no such questions on the result of the election from any observer. So the electorate in alaysia a developing country can read and understand instructions better than Scots.

No wondr people voted for Labour for 60 years - just plain thick? Or is there another reason
51

pehman,

sussex 18/05/2008 08:53:03
The article could also have said that for the 10-12 months prior to the election the SNP were polling 5-8% ahead of slab.

Therefore the neck and neck of the election result may well have favoured slab, and stopped a majority government.
52

911 was an inside job.,

18/05/2008 09:08:45
Anyone caught voting NuLabour in future should be hunted down and tried as a war criminal!
53

Phil C,

18/05/2008 09:21:23
#49 Sillyoldrules

Your comments re Zanu and the SNP are a bit daft. This story is about the Douglas Alexander efficiency unit causing havoc again! Labour have always assumed victory in their backwater socialist state of Scotland and did so by keeping the people down. They don't understand, and don't like, the fact that people deserted in droves. Those people were fed up of being beaten up by the big sticks of Labour taxes, incompetence and dishonesty.

Methinks, if Labour had enough support left, they would be asking for a Mugabe style vote-off. Gordy, Bendy and Bob have much in common. And BTW that was our unionist lodge doing the good deeds in Manchester!
54

Paul Spencer,

Glasgow 18/05/2008 09:21:41
Talk about retreads, old stories and sloppy journalism, this about sums it up, a clear case of cut and paste journalism. Having listened to John McGurks programme of Radio Scotland on Friday about the decline of Scottish Newspapers, I am now having to agree with Andrew Neill, that the way ahead is a merged Hootsman and Herald, both papers are now turning out torpid journalism, the pincer movement of falling circulation and decreasing advertising revenues are reflected in poor quality journalism as papers become no more than tatty versions of Student Newspapers with about the same relvance!!!
55

subrosa,

18/05/2008 09:26:43
Why didn't Ron Gould say this during his interviews when he changed his opinion about a few other things?

Could it be another brown envelope arrived recently?

As for the Scotsman's demise it is sad. But it's the population that decide a newspaper's circulation and they just can't accept that. Either produce unbiased reporting and headlines or slip into oblivion.

Scotland does need a fair, balanced national newspaper though. Neither the Scotsman or the Herald meets the requirements at present. I would prefer a national newspaper produced and written by Scottish based journalists and not the English based, 'Scottish edition' ones which have been appearing over the years.
56

JimC,

Kilmarnock 18/05/2008 09:27:52
Allan Wilson, the losing Labour candidate in Cunninghame North, said he believed he had won the vote. "If you look at where the spoiled ballot papers were, it is easy to work out that the majority of them would have been Labour voters."

This causes me concern. Is he saying that as these people come from areas of multiple deprivation then they surely must have voted labour? Just shows why Nu-Labour does nothing for the working classes. Keep em poor and keep their vote.
57

roughrider,

Glasgow 18/05/2008 09:35:52
LOSER Allan Wilson, the losing Labour candidate in Cunninghame North, said he believed he had won the vote. "If you look at where the spoiled ballot papers were, it is easy to work out that the majority of them would have been Labour voters."
What a whinger this liebour loser is,a spoiled paper means that the person who spoiled it was trying to vote liebour, clown.
58

JimC,

Kilmarnock 18/05/2008 09:37:24
The balance of reporting plays only a small part in the decline of newspapers. Today the Internet is supreme, news reaches people as it happens. People like to comment on articles click a link and see the video not to mention the millions of those who blog on a daily basis who provide an alternative viewpoint and un-edited video. Also how many young people do you see in the shops every morning with a newspaper under their arm – very few, more like a bottle of coke and an I-Pod in their lughole. Times are changing and in my view for the best.
59

b.allan,

alba 18/05/2008 09:44:42
Eddie are you trying to hint to the few Scotland on Sunday readers left that the spoiled ballot papers would have been labour votes? If so then you're finally waking up to the fact that Labour voters MUST BE stupid.To vote for a party which took us into an illegal war is just plain thick.To vote for a party that wants us to keep subsidising England WHILST WE GET POORER AND POORER under the "leadership" of Mr North Britain? "bring it on" eddie.
60

Anne, Glasgow,

18/05/2008 09:53:12
A friend of mine, a manager in the NHS, had a spoiled paper which would have been rejected. For the record Labour voters, SHE VOTED SNP AND ALWAYS HAS.
61

Phil C,

18/05/2008 09:57:31
#101 Col

Cast your eyes elsewhere...

Here's a few to be going on with, oh and a couple of others like Blair, Cameron, Prescott, Reid....

Prime Minister, First Lord of the Treasury and Minister for the Civil Service
The Rt Hon Gordon Brown MP

Chancellor of the Exchequer
The Rt Hon Alistair Darling MP

Secretary of State for Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs
The Rt Hon David Miliband MP

Secretary of State for Justice and Lord Chancellor
The Rt Hon Jack Straw MP

Secretary of State for the Home Department
The Rt Hon Jacqui Smith MP

Secretary of State for Defence; and, Secretary of State for Scotland
The Rt Hon Des Browne MP

Secretary of State for Health
The Rt Hon Alan Johnson MP

Secretary of State for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs
The Rt Hon Hilary Benn MP

Secretary of State for International Development
The Rt Hon Douglas Alexander MP

Secretary of State for Business, Enterprise and Regulatory Reform
The Rt Hon John Hutton MP

Leader of the House of Commons (and Lord Privy Seal); Minister for Women; and Labour Party Chair
The Rt Hon Harriet Harman QC MP

Secretary of State for Work and Pension
The Rt Hon James Purnell MP

Secretary of State for Transport
The Rt Hon Ruth Kelly MP

Secretary of State for Communities and Local Government
The Rt Hon Hazel Blears MP

Parliamentary Secretary to the Treasury and Chief Whip
The Rt Hon Geoff Hoon MP

Secretary of State for Children, Schools and Families
The Rt Hon Ed Balls MP

Minister for the Cabinet Office; and Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster
The Rt Hon Ed Miliband MP

Secretary of State for Culture, Media and Sport
The Rt Hon Andy Burnham MP

Secretary of State for Northern Ireland
The Rt Hon Shaun Woodward MP

Leader of the House of Lords (and Lord President of the Council)
The Rt Hon the Baroness Ashton of Upholland

Chief Secretary to the Treasury
The Rt Hon Yvette Cooper MP

Secretary of State for Innovation, Universities and Ski
62

Publius,

Girvan 18/05/2008 10:11:57
#72 Alan B

Good morning Alan
I wouldn't read too much into this. A lot of public sector bodies are moving to internet-only advertising of jobs. It is much cheaper than the press and saves a lot of money.
In my previous job as head of a large department in a University I preferred to advertise all clerical/admininistrative jobs and all temporary academic jobs on-line - and I left in 2003. Even then it saved a large amount of money from my budget.
63

Phil C,

18/05/2008 10:12:21
Good luck chaps!
64

Awake,

North Lanarkshire 18/05/2008 10:24:26
Yes, the vote was rigged alright... in favour of Labour. It would have been an SNP landslide.

Especially Cumbernauld... who the fcuk voted for that dithering numptie Cathy Craigie? And Airdrie? What happened there?

DRS = Neil Kinnock, Director. Where is the source code?
65

Publius,

Girvan 18/05/2008 10:26:01
It's time to call time on Rangers' trip to Manchester. I am truly sorry for the Russian fan and the Manchester policeman who were hurt. I hope that the perpetrators are brought to justice. BUT according to the police and the Manchester council the great majority of Rangers fans were not violent. Let's accept this.
66

Jock ex 45Cdo RM,

THORNHILL 18/05/2008 10:44:50
Is Wendy one of the non-elected?
67

Hamish Scott,

18/05/2008 11:17:59
Another dodgy headline. I'm not sure we can blame Mr. Barnes though. Headlines were/are (?) usually written by sub-editors. The consistent distortion of headlines at both SoS and the Scotsman suggest an official policy. A lot of people skim through a paper and only read the headlines looking for something that interests them. The intended subliminal effect of these distorted headlines is pure political propaganda.
68

Edward,

18/05/2008 11:37:01
yet another Labour quasi spin
Its the suggestion that due to the mess that the Scotland office and the previous Labour administration made that the SNP only got in due to error. In other words the hint is there that the SNP should not really be in power.
What gives the game away that this is being promoted by Labour, is that for the first time in a VERY long time the Scotland on Sunday paper was actually mentioned and held aloft by Andrew Marr in his morning show highlighting this very same headline. It should be noted that this never happens normally, apprently if you watch the Andrew Marr show, your left with the impression that no newspapers are published in Scotland ! True to form no mention of the other Scottish paper, the Sunday Herald and of course they didnt bother actually commenting further. So were left with the 'hint' that the SNP should not be in power
69

Andrew.,

Edinburgh 18/05/2008 11:40:46

If someone is too stupid to cast a vote properly, surely their vote has little value anyway...
70

brownlie,

18/05/2008 11:41:25
105 Anne

Could your friend in the NHS make an urgent appointment for "bring them on"?
71

ExpatBackinScotland,

Carnoustie 18/05/2008 11:59:12
Or couldnt that quote have been

He was asked "Did Labour do as well as it looked like they did"

"With all the spoiled papers, Im not confortable with that. The Snp could have won by far more than one seat"

72

Citylocal Fife,

Citylocal Fife News 18/05/2008 12:24:15
This is not 'news', it was patently obvious to all last May that perhaps some people were elected who should not be elected. Mauling over it like witch-doctors inspecting chicken entrails is not the way forward.
Learn and move on!
73

Forward not Back,

18/05/2008 12:38:11
So can Eddie tell us how, if these "irregularities" changed all the constituency MSP's to Labour MSP's, say, what the change in the regional seats would have been? For a start, Lord Dode would be out of a job!
74

ThePeter,

Glasgae 18/05/2008 12:41:58
This is hilarious
Wendy is fighting for her political life at the moment "bring it on", due to the screw up her BROTHER made...
Superb
I would advise both Alexanders' to become bin men, except I would be insulting bin men by categorising these two clowns with them
Wherever the Alexander siblings were born definately lost their idiots when one went to Westminster and the other to Holyrood
Ha, ha, ha
75

Tom R,

18/05/2008 12:42:13
I hope that in the long dark years of many electoral defeats for "Scottish" Labour still to come, the only comfort Labour can find is that they just might have won in 2007 if not for their own incompetence epitomised by Douglas Alexander.

What a fitting epitaph and monument to the failure of the "Scottish" Labour Party.
76

,

18/05/2008 12:57:15
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
77

Robbierunciman,

Romney Marsh 18/05/2008 13:03:31
Its the hanging chads and Florida all over again - judging by the unhappy right whingers comments and their attempt to shoot the messenger, this newspaper, the study must have hit a nerve. Perhaps they also believe the SNP did not really win!

lets hope wee alex does not invade the Isle of Man to stay in power!
78

Foulkes Off the CyberNat,

Edinburgh 18/05/2008 14:10:17
This is just another wind up story and not worthy of serious comment I am disgusted it has over 100 post already and I am sorry for contributing to this piece of trash reporting.
79

David MacVicar,

web 18/05/2008 14:30:30
Eddie

As political Editor of this paper in what ways do you take personal responsibility for the continued decline of this paper?
80

David MacVicar,

web 18/05/2008 14:32:23
Eddie,

Which MSPs were wrongly elected. Name names and lets have a re-election?
81

David MacVicar,

web 18/05/2008 14:38:37
Eddie,

Your article about a UK bill for a referendum this year is a pure work of fiction and propaganda. Please provide some proof for a referendum Bill this year.

How could we expect any bill in the commons in light of the official stated position on the Calman commission and no EU referendum?

How could Wendy be to blame when the stated position on the Calman commission was agreed in March?
82

James.com,

Clifton 18/05/2008 14:59:39
That's what happens in a one Party State (or one that thought it was). Go ZaNuLabour!
83

David MacVicar,

web 18/05/2008 16:03:29
Eddie,

Talking of the Calman commision. Given the representation and scope of the Calman commission, How in your opinion can the UK NOT be in breach of treaty with the council of Europe and Human rights that it has ratified.

Specifically,as I stated on another thread:

Framework Convention for the Protection of National Minorities
http://conventions.coe.int/Treaty/en/Treaties/Html/157.htm

"The Parties undertake to adopt, where necessary, adequate measures in order to promote, in all areas of economic, social, political and cultural life, full and effective equality between persons belonging to a national minority and those belonging to the majority. In this respect, they shall take due account of the specific conditions of the persons belonging to national minorities."

Promote in ALL AREAS...POLITICAL life, full and effective equality. shall take due account of etc.

The UK state has ignored and silenced a large proportion of Scottish society and its elected government with this commission. I can't see how this could possibly be anything but a breach of the treaty as stated but perhaps some clarity from you Eddie could show me the errors in this conclusion?
84

Suomi,

Salo,Finland 18/05/2008 16:07:38
Dear Eddie,the heading,"Wrong MSP's elected in poll fiasco" is mislerasding since it seems like a statement of fact.The content of the article infers that the chaotic situation only damaged Labour.We do not have a clue who was damaged most,but the article is biased towards one conclusion.It6 does not consider the possibility that the SNP were denied seats or that the majorities of all MSP's might have been reduced by the chos at the polls.For that reason I would accuse the Scotsman of poor journalistic standards,since they fail to analyse all possible conclusions.

I get the impression that the negativity shown towards this Scottish government is much greater than in the past.This seems strange in view of the fact that opinion polls repeatedly indicate that the present Scottish government are highly popular.How do you explain the lack of congruence between your newspaper headlines and surveys of public opinion.It would be an interesting study to investigate the extent to which media reports of governments vary according to the political party in power, and the extent to which media bias is congruent with opinion polls.I am also curious as to why journalists reports at SNP conferences seem more objective than what many of them say in newspaper articles.Is this due to the fact that newspaper owners control what journalist can say in the written media?

85

Awake,

North Lanarkshire 18/05/2008 16:16:20
#118 Edward

... Andrew Marr. Yes, this clown is pure unadulterated Establishment. He was recruited by MI5 then done a stint in MI6: connected to mind control operations. Ignore this blabbering evasive idiot at all times.

There is a lot of controversy in US regarding their Diebold voting machines... many calling for open transparency and the publishing of source code on the internet. DRS are very suspicious and must be ditched out of hand. Voting processes and procedures out with electronic voting in Scotland are also very suspicious. I thought there was a investigation into this and aren’t the Scottish Government going to handling voting? And if not then that will have to be remedied.
86

Brian M,

Edinburgh 18/05/2008 16:41:36
Looks like Labour still cannot accept that they lost the Holyrood elections.

And the implication that Labour should still be in power means that Joke would still be FM, Scotland still a 'wee' country being controlled by Westminster, council tax up by 10%, bridge tolls still in operation.
87

Richardinho,

18/05/2008 17:06:10
hmm. so where's Eddie then?
88

mesmiths,

fife 18/05/2008 17:11:26
Helloooo. Eddie? This must be how the Rangers fans felt when the big screen went down at kick off. I'm off on a rampage.
89

Richardinho,

18/05/2008 17:13:27
To be fair, this page is very poorly linked to-you can't find it in the politics or the Scottish news section or the opinion section,only from the front page. Maybe he's lost!
90

WL,

livingston 18/05/2008 17:21:24
Spoiled ballot papers do not count in any election. So why this turmoil again. If some people think that they were not elected because of spoiled ballot papers, they should have gone round and explain the system to their constituents before the election.
91

eddie barnes,

18/05/2008 17:21:56
Am now on line
92

Suomi,

Salo,Finland 18/05/2008 17:22:03
Yes,where is Eddie? When you do join this forum,could you please give us your opinion on the refusal to give the SCottish Parliament to assume responsibilty for organising their own elections.
93

Jock Tamson,

Scotland, Caledonia, Alba 18/05/2008 17:22:33
I have a very serious question to ask Eddie and it is much more serious than accusations of political bias in newspaper reporting.

My question is how someone was able to lift AMtwa's private details from the register database of the Scotsman newspaper stable and publish them as a posting.

Are we all at risk? Is it a "subtle" threat? Answers, please, Eddie.
94

Dekester,

Canada's westcoast 18/05/2008 17:23:55
The Scotsman is truly in freefall. It will be good riddance.

The manipulation of headlines is disgusting, and the Alexanders are truly a joke.Although a joke may be funny. There is nothing funny about these conniving pond scum

Scotland will soar once the shackles of Westminster are broken. I truly believe the English power brokers ( not the common decent man or woman.)Are terrified of the success and vibrancy that will come Scotlands way.

All the best
95

eddie barnes,

18/05/2008 17:28:45
#147
On who should organise the elections, I'd probably go along with Gould that one body should be in charge and that Holyrood is the logical choice - although I think that it's more important that they sort out the reasons for what really went wrong last year; ie - having council and Holyrood elections on the same day/having a ballot paper which wasn't clear enough/having an untested counting system which couldn't cope. It's also interesting that the SCottish Affairs Committee are v critical of the Electoral Commission for not having enough clout to sort things out - worth looking at as well, I'd say.
96

Jock Tamson,

Scotland, Caledonia, Alba 18/05/2008 17:29:27
150, Meths. And there was me thinking that the lime was the oxter wipe and the salt was for the forehead.
97

eddie barnes,

18/05/2008 17:31:18
#148
Sorry, I haven't a clue.
98

Crewedaddy,

Cheshire 18/05/2008 17:33:21
It's a non-story surely? Next week's headline "Labour would have won if more people had voted for them."
99

Jock Tamson,

Scotland, Caledonia, Alba 18/05/2008 17:33:45
152, Meths. He should have been reading the pile of garbage before he logged in at 5 0'clock. Turning up a 5.20 without an apology for being late is just bad manners. Besides he wrote the rubbish.
100

Brian M,

Edinburgh 18/05/2008 17:33:58
Will the Kirk offer Alex Salmond the chance to do a sermon on the Mound?
101

Jock Tamson,

Scotland, Caledonia, Alba 18/05/2008 17:36:11
156, Eddie, are you, or anyone in the building, trying to find out?
102

David MacVicar,

we 18/05/2008 17:36:42
158
Jock Tamson "Besides he wrote the rubbish."

LMAO at that one :)
103

Nebulous,

Aberdeen 18/05/2008 17:37:00
Eddie - we heard this week of the problems of the press in Scotland. 27? newspapers all competing. How many of these papers take an editorial stand in favour of Independence?

Given the SNP's decent first year and strong poll position, don't you think we have room for a paper to demonstrate some broad support?
104

KampungHighlander,

Jakarta 18/05/2008 17:37:24
"Allan Wilson, the losing Labour candidate in Cunninghame North, said he believed he had won the vote. "If you look at where the spoiled ballot papers were, it is easy to work out that the majority of them would have been Labour voters."

Aye, because most of them are as thick as pig sh!te and without having the traditional logo of a monkey wearing a red roset they where confused about where to make their X.
105

eddie barnes,

18/05/2008 17:38:06
#157
A non-story? The fact that the man in charge of the independent investigation into the poll fiasco can't say for sure that all the MSPs elected at Holyrood are the right ones? Forget your
unionist/nationalist/left/right labels for a minute, this is about democracy being totally undermined by the incompetence of our government. How can we possibly ever criticise Zimbabwe for delaying the results of its election, or attack the US for its hanging chads after this?
106

Brian M,

Edinburgh 18/05/2008 17:39:40
Holyrood should be responsible for all Scottish elections.

General elections to the Westminster parliament should of course be controlled/organised by the Westminster electoral commission.
107

eddie barnes,

18/05/2008 17:40:47
#160
I'll forward these posts onto our IT guys if you want -maybe they'll know.
108

Garry Otton,

SCOTTISH MEDIA MONITOR com 18/05/2008 17:42:19
Eddie, You weren’t with SoS the last time this paper trumpeted one of Brian Souter’s vile moral campaigns – against the repeal of the Tory’s infamous ‘Section 28’. But here we are, giving space to another of his Christian Institute-backed moral campaigns. He should find favour with a former editor of the Scottish Catholic Herald! I remember you airing your morally conservative views for the blue-rinse Daily Mail. I must say, they were hysterical…! But is it any wonder the young have abandoned reading newspapers?

109

Nebulous,

Aberdeen 18/05/2008 17:43:11
It's not a non-story. The election was a shambles, yet it is unlikely we will ever disentangle who won or lost most from it. Surely the important thing is to make sure steps are taken to reduce the likelihood of it happening again?
110

eddie barnes,

18/05/2008 17:43:31
#162
Not sure the premise of your question - that supporting independence will somehow boost the circulation of newspapers - is right, bearing in mind that the papers which have succeeded in Scotland in recent years are the Tartanised editions of the Daily Mail and the Times.
I feel like a stuck record here, but there has been lots of support for the SNP government, if not for independence ,from most of the papers - although the Express keeps flirting with the idea.
111

Scottish Politics,

18/05/2008 17:43:41
Eddie, do you believe that the problems being faced by Scottish newspapers in terms of circulation is partly due to their anti-snp and independence editorial stance?
112

Scottish Politics,

18/05/2008 17:44:31
Oops, beaten to it by #162, apologies for the duplication.
113

Scottish Politics,

18/05/2008 17:46:47
Personally on this issue I believe that the first "major" Scottish newspaper to back the SNP and independence will reap the benefits of actually being in tune with a large percentage of the Scottish electorate. The thing that puts many people off buying newspapers is their editorial line. Even neutrality would be a step forward rather than outright hostility.
114

Jock Tamson,

Scotland, Caledonia, Alba 18/05/2008 17:47:39
164, Eddie. The election was a year ago. I think you coming out with this issue now is, shall we say?, a tad suss.

Could it be linked to the referendum story, perchance?
115

Nebulous,

Aberdeen 18/05/2008 17:49:09
We need to see, hear and read opposing views. We get robust discussion of politics on the radio and on TV. Yet I, as an SNP supporter cannot find a paper which broadly supports independence. I'm not saying they all should - but I would buy one which did.
116

Scottish Politics,

18/05/2008 17:51:27
The sum total of the argument against giving the power over Scottish elections to the Scottish parliament was that it was the Scotland Office which was in charge and messed up. This appears to be obsfucation and the hope that people will assume this to be some arm of government based in Scotland instead of the reality which is that it is a Westminster department.
117

eddie barnes,

18/05/2008 17:53:20
#169
I accept the fact you don't like reading Mr Souter's views. Basically, as a paper, we thought it was newsworthy that he has decided to go public on a moral issue again. If you don't think there's room for debate then I think that's a pity.
Incidentally, you mention my time at the SCO - I could show you the letters I've got from gay priests thanking us for our coverage of Section 28 at the time - but I suppose that doesn't fit your mould.
118

eddie barnes,

18/05/2008 17:56:15
#164
Bit conspiratorial....the reason we ran the story was because of Gould's comments were very newsworthy, not for any other reason. They were actually made in public in January but for some reason my Westminster colleagues didn't pick up on them and so they only came to light today when the Select Committee report was published.
119

David MacVicar,

web 18/05/2008 17:57:04
Billing:
Eddie Barnes will be online from 5pm BST today to answer questions and discuss matters of interest. Add your questions or comments below

Delivery at 1800:
Nobody on line for ages, someone saying they are Eddie without an official logo, no real answers to the many questions posted earlier.

Hardly a discussion, more a complete waste of time. The discussion was a good idea but went downhill since then, much like the Scotmans circulation.

Discussion Removed by administrator:
Reason: lack of funds to pay anyone?
120

eddie barnes,

18/05/2008 17:57:25
#178
Sorry, forget asking any questions to me about IT matters. You might as well ask the wall.
121

Garry Otton,

SCOTTISH MEDIA MONITOR com 18/05/2008 17:58:18
And I can show you letters from people who were being bullied or beaten during that vile campaign, but I don't suppose that fits your mould either.
122

Phil C,

18/05/2008 18:01:21
#176 Neb

The Express said they would take a pro-independence line, but I don't see much evidence of that. They're not exactly Scottish and their Tory leanings preclude them from being representative of Scottish views in any case.

No paper has taken the correct choice in supporting the wakening up of the Scottish people. It's best to stick with the Scotsman's, and to a lesser extent the Weegie Herald's, anti-SNP bias and keep arguing against their nonsense on here.
123

eddie barnes,

18/05/2008 18:02:46
#181
It's not like you're paying for this!

OK - what about taking this discussion on a bit: why doesn't Salmond come out tomorrow and say that, having read Gould's comments, he now agrees that the election was unreliable and that he thinks there is a case for an immediate re-run? It would be a brilliant move: all the other parties would run a mile because they know they'd get walloped. Lets get a head of steam up here and tell Alex to go for it.
124

Jock Tamson,

Scotland, Caledonia, Alba 18/05/2008 18:03:10
167, Eddie. Please do more than that. Please get your publication to state categoricaly that your database is safe and secure.

Also please state that AMtwa was not connected in any way with your publication, other than as a poster, and that the published, personal, details were not an attempt to scare off certain other posters.

You are a political editor and I think this is political.
125

Scottish Politics,

18/05/2008 18:04:49
Phil C, what you say is true, I still wouldn't buy a paper copy though and give them financial succour. I ensure I have adblocker software activated when I visit the online version too so they get nothing from me apart from a boost to their visitors per month figures.

Sounds harsh, but that is the way it will stay unless and until the editorial line changes.
126

Scottish Politics,

18/05/2008 18:06:03
#185 Surely you mean tell him to "bring it on!" as appears to be the catchphrase of the month! ;)
127

eddie barnes,

18/05/2008 18:09:01
Oops - I see my idea was already suggested by #59. Just goes to show there are no new ideas, just good ones.
128

Scottish Politics,

18/05/2008 18:09:30
#185 Eddie, personally I love the idea and the other parties would run a mile rather than face an SNP sitting at 40 odd percent in the polls.
129

David MacVicar,

web 18/05/2008 18:10:05
185 eddie barnes - "It's not like you're paying for this! ". You are getting paid for all this.

OK. Scottish government accepted the Gould report in full, how about implementing all the recommendations before, having another shambles?

As a said earlier. If you are going to headline "Wrong MSPs elected", name mames and demand through your paper that the UK government re runs those seats as a Scottish bi election. 'Bring it on' Eddie.
130

Phil C,

18/05/2008 18:12:24
#185 Eddie

I don't think Salmond has any need to do anything of the kind. He won an election fair and square and there's work to be done. The fact his predecessors couldn't organise a piss-up in a brewery is neither here nor there.

I don't understand why the Scotsman, and you in particular, don't present the news fair and square. I remember 5 anti-SNP stories in one SoS a few weeks ago- and all attributed to you!
131

Garry Otton,

SCOTTISH MEDIA MONITOR com 18/05/2008 18:13:37
#190 Scottish Politics. 40%??? It'll be less than that when more people get to know how he's banging on about more Sunni, Sh'ia and sectarian schools!
132

Scottish Politics,

18/05/2008 18:14:14
Eddie, would you consider working for Wendy Alexander when Simon Pia inevitably has enough and quits, like so many others previously on her press staff?
133

Nebulous,

Aberdeen 18/05/2008 18:14:31
I don't think there is any formula for cutting short the 4 year-term other than a vote of no-confidence. Is there? Given all parties accepted the result as it says there they cannot go back on that now.
134

eddie barnes,

18/05/2008 18:17:09
#191

Sure - accept them all, whatever will ensure that the elections are reliable next time round.

As you can see from the story, I put a few obvious examples in the story to illustrate the case with Cunninghame North being the most glaring example. But it's not for us to name names as such; maybe Mr Gould should, now that he's revealed he has doubts - after all, he's the expert.
135

GM,

18/05/2008 18:18:53
Wrong MSPs elected in poll fiasco
====================================


Name names Eddie

(or is it a purely sensationalist headline?)
136

eddie barnes,

18/05/2008 18:19:43
Er, no.
Actually, not sure whether Simon will quit so quickly; he seems to be quite enjoying it in a kind of masochistic way.
137

GM,

18/05/2008 18:21:21
@196

dont hide behind that statement!

Its *this* paper and *your* story that detail that "wrong MSP's elected..."

Show me the section of the Gould report or anywhere else where such certainty is ascribed?
138

lilywhite,

borders 18/05/2008 18:21:55
OK I am going out on a limb here, and supporting Allan Wilson. Obviously the majority of people who didn,t figure out how last years ballot paper worked weren,t the brightest and were most likely to vote for him because no one with 2 braincells to rub together would vote for this numpty
139

eddie barnes,

18/05/2008 18:22:17
#195
I haven't really thought through my idea in terms of parliamentary procedure. Maybe Alex could organise a vote of no confidence in himself!
You're right - no one is proposing that they go back over the election last year, so we shouldn't hold our breath for Mr Salmond to act.
140

Jock Tamson,

Scotland, Caledonia, Alba 18/05/2008 18:23:10
Eddie, the outing of AMtwa is not going to go away. That is a serious security breach. As someone who does not share his political views (and also did not read his personal data) I still await an answer from you, as a political editor, to my post @186
141

GM,

18/05/2008 18:23:49
and while your at it, do you honestly believe that raking over these year old embers will do anything for the labour cause?

After all, it seems to be taking them an *extremely* long time getting around to what opposition is all about and in my opinion, raking over a year old election result isn't exactly forward thinking novel ideas and inspiration for the future is it?
142

Scottish Politics,

18/05/2008 18:25:38
"Wrong MSPs elected in poll fiasco" - I suppose it all depends on your perspective, for example if you were Wendy Alexander you would definitely think the wrong MSPs had been elected, mind you if you were the rest of the Labour group you might think Wendy was a wrong MSP to have elected. The peopel have spoken though and the result, a year on stands.
143

GM,

18/05/2008 18:27:13
@204

actually, I'm pretty devastated I missed the 'outing' of AM2 myself... purely as an interested user who has crossed swords more than once with him!

I did actually complain to the Scotsman once about him and the way moderation followed him around like a bad smell, but hey assured me he was in no way connected to the paper...

Did the 'outing' confirm any connection?
144

Nebulous,

Aberdeen 18/05/2008 18:27:34
#203

If he really wants to go for it when he's doing well then maybe he should vote against himself in a confidence vote!

I'm not sure anyone sees the point though. They are sure things will get better and the opposition continues to be in disarray.


145

David MacVicar,

web 18/05/2008 18:27:42
196 eddie barnes. It is not possible to accept all of Gould recommendations AND have a re-election in the short term.

It is you who has stated "Wrong MSPs elected" not Gould.
Labour could have contested Cunninghame North at the time, they chose not to.

You have made a serious accusation and it is a serious subject. If you do not show any courage of conviction in following up your conclusion it is just empty rhetoric.
146

Jock Tamson,

Scotland, Caledonia, Alba 18/05/2008 18:29:37
200, Meths. And there was me thinking you were already taking the hump with me for mentioning a surname online after a conversation with an accordian player who was on Millionaire.
I don't think anyone else got that - it was just that my art teacher at school had 2 ts. Spelling, not manner.

Besides, my point in this is if the database is secure then AMtwa is a plant.
147

eddie barnes,

18/05/2008 18:30:19
#204
I genuinely haven't a clue. If you want to take it up with someone, call our IT department at the office on 0131 6208620 who I'm sure can help.
148

eddie barnes,

18/05/2008 18:33:27
OK. I'm off.
149

Jock Tamson,

Scotland, Caledonia, Alba 18/05/2008 18:35:49
207, GM. Regardless of what I thought about the politics of AMtwa, I would have to respect his privacy.

But have you noticed how Eddie Barnes is beginning to sound like him with every increased pressure post?
150

Garry Otton,

SCOTTISH MEDIA MONITOR com 18/05/2008 18:36:18
Thank you. Truly gripping.
151

Jock Tamson,

Scotland, Caledonia, Alba 18/05/2008 18:37:27
Check out 212. It is AMtwa. He's had enough.

What a mannerless persona.
152

Scottish Politics,

18/05/2008 18:41:31
Thanks Eddie.
153

Garry Otton,

SCOTTISH MEDIA MONITOR com 18/05/2008 18:44:30
Here's one of my fave tambourine-rattling Eddie Barnes quotes: “Cardinal asks councils not to shun Jesus on his birthday”.
154

Jock Tamson,

Scotland, Caledonia, Alba 18/05/2008 18:47:01
211, Eddie, I know you'll be back to read this.

So what you you are saying by that post is you want me to do your investigative journalism for you?

Or was it just a question you did not want to answer?
155

Garry Otton,

SCOTTISH MEDIA MONITOR com 18/05/2008 18:47:32
He was sorely niffed when the matter "blew up" (his words, no mine...) after the Scottish Executive featured "the politically correct 'Season’s Greetings'". Tee hee!
156

GM,

18/05/2008 18:59:16
@218

many thanks -

work has been hectic lately and I visit these forums less so appear to have missed probably the best piece of news since last May!!

Is it true that every post he ever made is now gone?
157

Garry Otton,

SCOTTISH MEDIA MONITOR com 18/05/2008 19:02:17
I've no problem with free speech. No problem at all. Until it is unbalanced and gets out of hand. As it did with the vile and pointless campaign to repeal Section 28.

And as for some of those congratulatory letters from priests Eddie bragged about... What do priests know about sex? Let me lift a few quotes from letters out of the Scottish Catholic Observer, the paper he once edited. (Remember, these were written in THIS century...)

“SIR – I was interested to read the letter from the homosexual… Because the Observer is accessible to younger people there can be no discussion of homosexual acts as a Christian option”, from a cowardly “Name and address supplied”. “…A sexual relationship outside marriage is fornication and sexual relationships between two men is buggery. Having, years ago, lived with lesbian women in the army (WRAC) I know quite a lot about them”, Mary Murton of Argyll who went on to diagnose: “Real physical abnormalities of a sexual nature are a tragedy. To be disorientated sexually is a terrible cross to bear”.
158

Suomi,

Salo,Finland 18/05/2008 19:04:45
Eddie,Finland is two hours ahead of Scotland,so please read my posting at #136 and respond.
159

Nikostratos,

18/05/2008 19:11:40
The Scotsman has become boring enough and now with AM2 not around to rattle the 'Nats' cage there will be no fun no more........

160

GM,

18/05/2008 19:13:54
@227 and 228

I only ever kept one or two of his 'contributions' for posterity and even now I cant find them lol...

I never had the time or inclination to keep an entire referenced database of everyone elses postings here...hehehehe

If I was at all into conspiracy theories I would actually believe that AM2 was on a labour payroll and basically, the've decided to pack it in as the effect he was having was somewhat detrimental.
161

GM,

18/05/2008 19:15:13
@229 EV?

I know Highland Mighty also posted as 'British Pride'... he admitted it himself.
162

Jock Tamson,

Scotland, Caledonia, Alba 18/05/2008 19:21:59
218, ColB. How on earth did he manage to log in as AMtwa from a temporary account to delete all his posts? And how did he manage to delete all his posts?

The only way you can log onto your account is by giving your e-mail address and then it automaticaly shows your poster name.

Naw. Something is not right here. The whole thing stinks. There is some kind of fabrication going on IMHO.
163

Conan the Librarian™,

18/05/2008 19:25:09
Well bye bye AM2, you were the most civil of the Unionists.
164

Jock Tamson,

Scotland, Caledonia, Alba 18/05/2008 19:28:25
Reference to EV made me think of Truely English.

As we all know, she asserts that we are all English as we all speak English.

On the Rangers in Manchester thread she contradicted herself by saying that the English ex-soldier saved the English policeman from the Scots.

Although I am glad he did, this comment was about her change of nationality idea.
165

AM2am2,

18/05/2008 19:34:39
AM2


Please enter a different name, this is in use.

is am2 deleted or not perhaps not?
166

Jock Tamson,

Scotland, Caledonia, Alba 18/05/2008 19:45:30
239, ColB. Check out 238 again. That is a bad impersonator.
167

Jock Tamson,

Scotland, Caledonia, Alba 18/05/2008 19:48:38
ColB. Just got what you meant about 238. Apologies.

Still think there is something about the whole affair that smells of methane.
168

brownlie,

18/05/2008 20:08:48
236 Conan

As Union is Best is awol can I now put in a claim as the most civil unionist, please?
169

AM2am2,

18/05/2008 20:11:34
#240 Jock-the-nob

Just seeing if AM2s moniker was in fact deleted and not in use. Which if this was the case would be available for use. It was not as

"Please enter a different name, this is in use."

Why is it still in use?
170

brownlie,

18/05/2008 20:33:58
245 Col.

Colonel, As part of my civic duty, I help old ladies across the road, I pick them up when drunks knock them in the gutter, I, then, come on here, on an almost daily basis after the morning briefing, trying to defend the indefensible. What can be more civil than that?
171

morris,

edinburgh 18/05/2008 20:38:59
It is truly fascinating that one year on we report a serious question mark over the election,when everybody knew Douglas Alexander had screwed it up long before the votes were eventually counted!
The result was accepeted. End of Debate.

What purpose this article serves God only knows. If as seems probable Labour lost through their own incompetence,then that seems more than fair to me!People who were incapable of reading the ballot papers instructions are arguably fit to vote anyway!
I was actually asked by one voter for a reassurance that Labour were the party with the symbol similar to AIDS!I declined to answer since I was not sure what the ruling was on unbeleivavbly stupid questions !
Is their a section in the Representation of the Peoples Act covering village idiots I wonder?


When they have to rely upon identifying an icon and still cant get it right,who in their right mind would adcocate giving them a vote?Dyslexia is a problem,but as we all know dyselxic people can be highly intelligent, and invariably overcome their difficulty.I cannot however respect what I witnessed as having anything to do with democracy.The elector had no idea who or what she was voting for! How many more of these exist and are on the register?If as seems highly probable her paper was spoiled then both democracy and justice have been served here in my opinion.I do not wish to deny anyone and encourage participation,but when you disqualify yourself,then no legislation can cover that!

Of course we favour giving people the right to vote.We should also insist upon the ability to think!
The machines could and should have undergone extensive trials in a dummy run. Douglas Alexander is an idiot,but then look who he is related to!
172

Nikostratos,

18/05/2008 20:42:28
#247 Morris

"truly fascinating" How's the dieting going
173

morris,

edinburgh 18/05/2008 20:54:41
153

The electoral commission have far too much clout! They stopped the evidence being presented to the PF's office ,so guilty by her own admission Wendy, could NOT be treated the same way as everybody else is.
Labour made these rules and a difference in procedure for politicians only speaks volumes!

The PF decides whether the quality of evidence suffices for the court to be involved.They were denied the chance to do this.The EC decided it "was not in the public interest "to find her guilty,which is the only possible outcome! The system stinks and so do those who would defend this travesty of justice.
Our Justics System was on trial and we were found wanting and a lauging stock to save U bendys neck !
There is no democracy and no justice here,only a corrupt Labour Party who are unfit for opposition,let alone government.Newspapers which print garbage deserve to go under.This one is well on its way down !
174

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18/05/2008 20:59:12
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18/05/2008 20:59:51
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18/05/2008 21:01:42
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18/05/2008 21:03:01
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Nikostratos,

18/05/2008 21:03:28
#250 Morris

How's the dieting going,

#251 AM2

Er..how much or are you taking bids in which case £1.50
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18/05/2008 21:13:57
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Nikostratos,

18/05/2008 21:19:26
Morris


http://www.lighterlife.com/


Welcome to LighterLife

Three stone or more overweight? Lose it fast with LighterLife! Just have four of our nutritionally complete soups, shakes and bars every day and you’ll be amazed at how quickly you’ll reach a healthy weight! We’ll help you to keep things that way, too, with our free, ongoing Management support programme.

And that’s just the start. LighterLife is far more than a ‘diet’. We actually help you understand why you gained weight in the first place, because that’s the key to saying goodbye to yo-yo dieting and hello to a healthier, lighter life for the rest of your life.

Run by a nationwide network of Edexcel-accredited Counsellors, and medically supervised, LighterLife’s unique weight-management programme is fast, simple, safe and incredibly effective. So what are you waiting for?


181

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18/05/2008 21:21:51
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182

Nikostratos,

18/05/2008 21:22:27
#258

yeah right!..........Pinocchio
183

brownlie,

18/05/2008 21:29:57
249 Col

Thanks, Colonel, great stuff - slopes of Glenfiddich - I like it!!

Cheers
184

Conan the Librarian™,

18/05/2008 21:31:03
I had a half-share in a Volkswagen once.Therefore I AM.
185

Nikostratos,

18/05/2008 21:32:00
#261 Meths

Yeah!attacking someone through his Family typical yeah!.My cars are fine and not for sale yeah!
186

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18/05/2008 21:34:58
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18/05/2008 21:39:55
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18/05/2008 21:41:21
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Conan the Librarian™,

18/05/2008 21:41:55
267
I've got your number...
190

morris,

edinburgh 18/05/2008 21:44:20
257

Diet Nikos?

I said I was "bigger" than most of the Scotland Rugby Squad."Doddie Weir" is bigger than most of the squad.I doubt anybody would call him overweight.You can be eighteen stone without being fat you know.The word is tall!At least I thought I said bigger,maybe I only said heavier of course.
191

Nikostratos,

18/05/2008 21:56:38
#271 Morris


Okee dokee you are just 'bigger' Lighter life is expensive anyway £60 a week to lose some weight.Whats all that about?


And just in case you haven't read this


Oil 'would make independent Scotland rich'



http://business.timesonline.co.uk/tol/business/industry_sectors/natural_resources/article3954031.ece
192

morris,

Edinburgh 18/05/2008 22:00:09
The one thing which stands out as presumptious here, is Eddie Barnes in suggesting that the "wrong Mps were elected"
How can you conclude that? Are you claiming that you (and you alone )know who the spoilt papers were intended for? If you are, how?
It is at least possible (but unlikely) that every single result remains unchanged.We will never know in certainty.

Are you presuming that they were predominantly or entirely intended to be Labour votes (on the basis that they were stupid people)?
Hardly an argument for a pro Labour rag like the Hoots to be making I would have thought.
193

Eve,

Scotland Bonnie Scotland 18/05/2008 22:14:14
#273 morris: Theses are strage days!

I would dare any Labour supporter to stand up a say who they thing out of the labour MSP should lead a Holyrood. It's a very difficult question. The only answer that makes any sencible sence to me is Jack McConnel, even though he did make me laugh. At least he there was eveendce of some morals.


Hope fully the next election will be better or farer and lead to whats best foe Scotland happening.


I'm sleepy now, so I leave you with a wee thought!!

If the rain makes all things beautiful, why does it miss so many politions.

Good nigh sweet dream of Scottish Independence for all.
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morris,

edinburgh 18/05/2008 22:14:34
272

Apparently (according to my better half) in spending 60 quid a week most people probably could not afford to eat, and would lose weight for that reason alone !
At least it works (but for all the wrong reasons of course)!

I agree.
Most people are lucky to keep their food bill anywhere near £60. One of our fiends clears £100 without exception.Mind you they are all potentially 6 footers (at least) including Mum and it shows in her shopping trolley!Maybe we should campaign for a "weighting allowance" for giants?
195

morris,

edinburgh 18/05/2008 22:21:47
274

Good night to you also Eve.
If I recall correctly,you have a slight dyslexia (but it certainly does not stop you getting stuck in haha).Nor should it of course.
I cant paint like Rembrandt,but it does not mean I cannot admire art or abilty of others.
It is abundantly clear dear lady that there is nothing wrong with your thinking processes! Sweet dreams to you also.
196

Willie Macleod,

Wick 19/05/2008 02:45:55
#39 Rising Damp and Steptoe and son.
197

kimba,

19/05/2008 14:31:30
So,in theory the snp shouldn't be in power at all!
198

Florence,

Edinburgh 19/05/2008 17:48:44
Why would anyone give any credence to Gould. This is the man who criticised the Westminster Government and the previous Scottish Labour Executive then immediately backtracked on his comments (or was he nobbled)? As for Alan Wilson, the losing Labour candidate for Cunninghame, is he clairvoyant? A man of extraordinary powers it would seem!
199

bluehead,

edinburgh 20/05/2008 10:00:46
would it make any difference?if you see one politician
you've see them all!!
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24/05/2008 23:08:38
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