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Elections to be on separate days to avoid chaos repeat

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Published Date: 11 January 2008
By PETER MACMAHON
ELECTIONS for the Scottish Parliament and local government will be held on different days to avoid voter confusion, MSPs agreed last night.
The deal to "decouple" the elections to councils and Holyrood came at the end of a debate in the parliament on an expert report into last May's Scottish elections fiasco.

MSPs also voted to give the parliament more control over the Holyrood polls.

However, ministers later accepted a Labour amendment which watered down demands for complete responsibility to be shifted to Holyrood.

Separate election days for Holyrood and council chambers is the first clear response to recommendations in the report by Ron Gould, the international elections expert.

Until yesterday Labour, which in office insisted the two polls be held together, refused to back the change. But, following the Holyrood debate yesterday, Labour supported the idea, meaning decoupling is a certainty. Only the Liberal Democrats opposed the change, and legislation to move the local government elections – probably to a year after the 2011 Holyrood elections – is now certain to be agreed by MSPs.

Holding local government elections using the single transferable vote system and the Holyrood elections using the additional member proportional system was identified by Mr Gould as a major source of problems last May. Election night was marred by confusion over the systems, leading to more than 140,000 votes being spoiled.

Last night, the SNP hailed the agreement by Labour to a motion which stated there should be "further devolution of executive and legislative powers" as a major step forward.

Bruce Crawford MSP, the SNP's business manager, said that the vote meant Labour now supported Holyrood being handed responsibility for running Scottish Parliament elections.

However, Labour said it supported ideas such as the appointment of a single Scottish returning officer, but would oppose handing control over issues like the election system being given to Holyrood.

Labour is also adamant decisions on holding a referendum on independence will remain Westminster's responsibility.

Iain Smith, of the Lib Dems, said: "The answer is not to tinker with a system that is flawed but to change it to a system the voter has shown they can understand."

Page 1 of 1

  • Last Updated: 10 January 2008 9:47 PM
  • Source: The Scotsman
  • Location: Edinburgh
  • Related Topics: Holyrood Elections
 
1

Ross Fyffe,

Scotland 11/01/2008 04:52:45
And people get on to me for saying the intelect of the Scots is getting worse.
2

master mariner,

at sea 11/01/2008 05:23:19
This is so those people who were too stupid to understand the clear instructions given last time (who spoilt their ballot in effect) can have their say. For me I think that the voting system employed last time was great, it confounded those who should on the grounds of mental abbility be barred from voting any way.
While we are at it do away with the pretty pictures etc, if you are going to vote you should be able to read
3

rpb,

11/01/2008 06:42:37
It was a very difficult task to fill in two ballot papers.

From memory you had to know how to put an "X" on one paper, and then obvioulsy needed at least a PHD to work out how to put some sequential numbers on the other.

As pointed out above not very difficult unless you are stupid.
Coincidentally, it appears that the MSPs think it was difficult....proves you need no brains to get into the Scottishparliament and start telling the rest of us what to do.
Oh dear

Still, proves the parliamentarians are on the same mental wavelength as those who found the ballot papers 'dead difficult'






4

Auld Twa,

Edinburgh 11/01/2008 07:55:59
Labour just can not trust the Scots to look after themselves, even after Scotland Office control of the last election resulted in chaos they still think that London can do it better.
5

glassbenmhor,

11/01/2008 08:16:13
Has anyone consulted the Wee ALEXANDER Laddie?
6

Duncan in Edinburgh,

11/01/2008 08:26:03
It should be pointed out that the SNP previously fully supported the way the election was run; as the Gould report said, all the major parties were complicit in the problems. I have yet to hear a single apology from the SNP for their part in this.
7

Road to the isles,

11/01/2008 08:43:03
#6

Well in that case shouldn't you be requiring ALL parties to apologise?
8

Paddi,

11/01/2008 09:02:02
And what happened to Bendy's wee brother who organised and was responsible for the debacle in May 2007?
9

Duncan in Edinburgh,

Edinburgh 11/01/2008 09:12:07
#7 Labour has already apologised, repeatedly. To my knowledge, no representative of any other party has yet done so.

I have to say that if I were in the Greens I would have responded to the Gould report with a very careful consideration of legal action, since it was clear that the larger parties acted in concert to undermine the electoral opportunities of the parties who only stood on the regional lists.
10

Shellfishfarmer,

Inverness 11/01/2008 10:15:23
The big issue for me is the need to do away with First Past the Post and the Alternate Member. There is nothing democratic about seeing someone defeated in a constituency vote popping up again on the Part List. There should be a direct relationship between voter intention and election taking into account proportionality, and the only way to do that is the Single Transferable Vote. This should be the mechanism for all elections, as is common practice in the rest of Europe and Ireland, in particular.
11

Leila,

Edinburgh 11/01/2008 10:21:40
This is good news for another reason - having both elections on the same day meant most of the media attention was given to the Scottish Parliament elections, and not nearly enough to local issues.
12

mr chips,

11/01/2008 11:24:04
Would France give germany control over French elections
and vise versa. No feckin chance.
Scotland should control the election in Scotland.
13

Gothic Rose,

11/01/2008 11:29:18
1# If your spelling is a reflection of YOUR intellect,NO COMMENT.On the other hand,given the benefit of the doubt, you are, most probably, joking.
14

Reckless,

Fife 11/01/2008 11:41:31
Our May elections were suspect.

"Those who cast the votes decide nothing. Those who count the votes decide everything." Joe Stalin.

Ron Paul: Get Back to Gold

Simon Constable
TheStreet.com
Thursday January 10, 2008

If Ron Paul is correct, monetary authorities around the globe have been conspiring to suppress gold prices for decades.

Not convinced? Don't tell that to his followers. Because partly as a result of this view, Paul, a Texas congressman and Republican presidential hopeful, has become the champion of gold bugs who see him as the best friend of their precious metal, and, they hope, the next occupant of the White House.

"Our central banks around the world colluded over the last 10 to 20 years and have been dumping gold to keep gold down," Paul said in an interview with TheStreet.com when he met with voters in Concord, N.H., late Tuesday. "But finally, [the price] broke loose, and gold is soaring again to historic levels."

Ron Paul: Gold Market Rigged for Decades


For those of you out there who are unfamiliar with Paul's contention, understand that he is not alone. His comments echo the beliefs of fringe dwellers who for years have speculated that a multinational consortium of government banks, including the Bank of England and the Federal Reserve, have deliberately manipulated gold prices in an effort to downplay inflation.

One would be hard-pressed to characterize Paul himself as fringe dweller. But he does have a promise, if he is elected, that would have considerable repercussions for the U.S. and global economies. His plan? Bring back the gold standard and eliminate the Fed.

Ron Paul: Gold Market Rigged for Decades


Many observers use the price of gold as a bellwether for future inflation -- if it's rising, then inflation could be a threat. For that reason, conspiracy theorists believe governments everywhere have been trying to stymie the historic rally in the metal in an effort to keep such worries dorman
15

Gothic Rose,

11/01/2008 12:21:00
14# dorman?
16

Guga II,

Rockall 11/01/2008 12:35:45
Why is it that the New Labour Sleaze and Corruption Party (Scottish Branch)are so keen for London to keep total control over everything in Scotland? Are they, as usual, acting under instructions from their masters in Westminster?

Where is the Mouth of the South? Has she got no comment to make on this subject? Maybe her wee brother has told her to keep her mouth shut.
17

Paddi,

11/01/2008 13:20:28
Guga,

if there were any justice in the world she would be checking out the facilities at HMP Holloway
18

Duncan in Edinburgh,

Edinburgh 11/01/2008 14:50:13
#17 Whatever your opinion of their policies, my point is that the Greens were one of the biggest casualties of the ballot paper combination exercise. It's important to remember that the SNP and Labour BOTH increased their regional votes in this election. The SNP's regional vote was unfairly influenced by its false naming of the party on the regional list, and by the combination of constituency and list ballot papers into one; Labour's regional vote was unfairly influenced by the ballot paper combination.

Labour have apologised for their part, but the SNP have been sneeringly indifferent with regards to the tricks they deliberately pulled. Why is this?
19

Andrew Allan,

11/01/2008 17:58:07
It is my opinion that the principal of using an X on the ballot paper to simplify the vote has been more effective than any other system created as yet, and so the method of voting used in our last elections should have utilized this same principal, with the ballot paper being set-out in such a way as to make this possible.
20

E.A. Swimmer,

11/01/2008 18:35:09
Elections to be on separate days to avoid chaos repeat - common sense really, and an attribute sadly lacking in too many areas of society today.

There are been various witty posts above. However, please bear in mind that there are more elderly today than ever, and some of them may (note may) become confused by a system that suddenly introduces more than just an 'X', more than one piece of paper, and several 'winners'. There are, of course, the plain thick!

21

Eve,

Scotland 11/01/2008 21:24:33
#2 master mariner: "While we are at it do away with the pretty pictures etc, if you are going to vote you should be able to read"

That should have Labour lose a few votes!!!

BUT there NOT pretty pictures their emblems or symbols!!!

They don't just help the folk with reading problem BUT also there the folk with vision problem, piratically old people.

Which highlights one of the most important thing that lead to the mix up on May 07 was too do with the writing being to small. Insidently the writing on the Holyrood ballot paper was smaller than the writing on the council paper.

 

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