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One in ten Scots taking antidepressants

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Published Date: 17 December 2008
SCOTLAND is in danger of becoming a "Prozac nation", critics warned last night, following new figures that showed one adult in ten is on a daily dose of antidepressants.
The shocking statistics represent a rise on last year and a huge increase in the last decade – despite a government drive to find alternative remedies.

The number of antidepressants prescribed has more than tripled in the past 15 years, according
to NHS Scotland statistics on medicines used in mental health. It has grown from 1.16 million items to 3.83 million between 1992-93 and 2007-8.

Also, an increasing amount (£40 million last year) is now spent on the drugs every year, even though costs are falling.

According to yesterday's statistics, 9.3 per cent of the Scottish population aged 15 and over use an antidepressant drug every day. This is up from 8.8 per cent last year.

There was also a big growth in the prescribing of drugs for attention deficit hyperactivity disorder (ADHD), increasing by 12.3 per cent between 2006-7 and 2007-8, up from 59,461 to 66,756.

A huge increase in the number of people seeking help for depression, combined with a shortage of alternative therapies, has been blamed for the massive increase in the issuing of drugs such as Prozac.

But the steady rise in the number of prescriptions for anti- depressants had already prompted government action. Two years ago, ministers launched a campaign to offer alternative treatments in an attempt to limit, and eventually to reverse, the trend.

Yesterday's figures, however, suggest this has not worked and the situation is getting worse.

"The high numbers of Scots making daily use of antidepressants is cause for serious concern," said Jamie Stone, the Liberal Democrats' public health spokesman. "The health secretary must ensure that in Scotland antidepressants are not allowed to become a quick fix for depression.

"I hope that these figures prompt health professionals to look at viable alternatives to antidepressants. We should be trying to help people through the rough periods in their lives without relying on tablets.

"We must not allow Scotland to turn into a Prozac nation."

Mary Scanlon, for the Tories, added: "When the SNP came to power they set a government target binding themselves to reduce the annual rate of increase of antidepressants to zero by 2009-10.

"The sad truth is that rather than reducing the annual rate of increase there has been a rise from 3.6 per cent in 2006-7 to 4.7 per cent in 2007-8."

Experts insist, however, that the rise in the prescribing of antidepressants is a result of people seeking help from their doctor, rather than suffering in silence.

Dr Andrew McCulloch, chief executive of the Mental Health Foundation, said recently that a lack of alternative treatments was also driving the trend to more prescriptions.

He said: "Even where GPs do not want to prescribe anti- depressants they are forced to reach for the prescription pad because there may be long waits for therapies such as counselling."

Shona Robison, minister for public health, said work had been done to employ more psychologists and mental health staff, which would help ease the prescribing of antidepressants but the drugs were appropriate in many cases.

She said: "Our prime concern is that people get the right medical treatment for their condition and antidepressant drugs are an evidence-based treatment that is appropriate in many cases."

BACKGROUND

IN 2005, the House of Commons health committee accused drug companies of fostering a pill-popping culture under which medicines were used to resolve every problem, but especially mild depression.

In a report, the MPs said the pharmaceutical industry was acting as a "disease-monger", classing as many people as possible as "abnormal" and therefore in need of drugs.

"This process has led to an unhealthy over-reliance on, and over-use of, medicines. It also diverts resources and priorities from more significant diseases and health problems," the committee said.

A great deal of this was because patients complaining of mild depression were increasingly being prescribed anti-depressants, rather than being made aware that "unhappiness is part of the spectrum of human experience, not a medical condition".

The MPs said: "Inappropriate prescription of medicines by GPs is of particular concern."

Some doctors had prescribed antidepressants on a grand scale. Links were made to high rates of suicide.





Page 1 of 1

  • Last Updated: 16 December 2008 11:46 PM
  • Source: The Scotsman
  • Location: Edinburgh
 
1

Professor-Quincy-Adams-Wagstaff ,

16/12/2008 23:02:57
Mary Scanlon, for the Tories, added: "When the SNP came to power they set a government target binding themselves to reduce the annual rate of increase of antidepressants to zero by 2009-10.

"The sad truth is that rather than reducing the annual rate of increase there has been a rise from 3.6 per cent in 2006-7 to 4.7 per cent in 2007-8."

======================================================

Who would have believed it.........another SNP failure.
2

Otis B. Driftwood,

Abroad 17/12/2008 00:01:13
Is #1. The first "one in ten" to comment?
3

Wardog™,

17/12/2008 00:20:41
1 The Mad Professor


"The sad truth is that rather than reducing the annual rate of increase there has been a rise from 3.6 per cent in 2006-7 to 4.7 per cent in 2007-8."

Erm..... the election was in may 2007...... that means Labour were in charge for the period noted above......

But don't let facts get in the way of a good yarn


4

Wardog™,

17/12/2008 00:27:16


God only knows what the figures are since Ian Gray became 'Leader of Labour in the Scottish parliament' under Jim Murphy, who in turn reports to Flash Brown.

A string of depressives, manic depressives and bores.

5

,

17/12/2008 00:32:19
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6

Scotindy,

Los Angeles 17/12/2008 00:47:38
Yes I would be depressed beyond belief if SCOTLAND was to spend any more than one year with this pathetic outdated uoion with england. REFERENDUM AND INDEPENDENCE HERE WE COME......
7

Tracker,

Highlands 17/12/2008 02:19:46
I do not think that these drugs work for everyone. Depressives I encountered years ago, and who visit the doctor regularly, are still the same - very depressed.
8

Warden An' All, Reborn,

17/12/2008 10:24:51
SCOTLAND is in danger of becoming a "Prozac nation" - This was obvious after the last scottish elections!
9

,

17/12/2008 10:28:07
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10

,

17/12/2008 10:28:41
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11

P I Staker,

17/12/2008 10:31:26
Have we not got a right to be depressed?
Millions of £££ squandered by the get rich quick banking brigade who then walk away unscathed with their bonuses. Its laughable that in the middle of all these banking fiascos that the branch phone you up and ask you to come into see the 'banking advisor' - what chance have they of looking after my money when one wee man in the USA can take them for millions - and walk away. Its just greed, greed, greed. It seems that the only ones with a conscience are the hard working people who are hoping to still have a job after Christmas and making sacrifices to give their families as good a time as they can.
These avaricious morons in the banking world should be given depressants - four bottles at a time - or should I say suppressants?
12

Darien,

Panama 17/12/2008 10:32:23
#8 Warden: "SCOTLAND is in danger of becoming a "Prozac nation"

I've got news for you. Scotland has been a Prozac nation since 1707.
13

P I Staker,

17/12/2008 10:33:05
#9 I note a severe lack of festive cheer and bonhomie from you that might alleviate the ills you identify.
14

The Leith Cowboy BAM BAM,

Bruxelles 17/12/2008 10:40:55
I have to agree with 9. Fixation on problems and not solving them is one of the greatest causes of depression.
15

,

17/12/2008 10:40:56
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16

yolanda,

17/12/2008 10:41:00

Many of these people will have genuine depression, and require such treatment. It's likely that a high proportion are suffering from social problems however, but writing a prescription is easier than sorting through the causes of the depression.
17

Warden An' All, Reborn,

17/12/2008 10:41:16
5-Essen P. Ness-Is what the union dividend?
Would you have been happy enough to extol the virtues of our situation now had we unfortunately turned our backs on the union, considering this recession we find ourselves in?
Would you have then said is this the independence dividend?

18

Banana Heid,

Ayrshire 17/12/2008 10:43:35
I think it's much higher than that. the figures are wrong...And i'm not surprised in fact I can see this problem getting much worse as the Rich bustards continue to rape our economy leaving vulnerable families bereft of anything worth having...
19

Guga II,

Rockall 17/12/2008 10:47:52
The figures probably include most of the Hootsmon IT staff. They must get helluva depressed with their continuing problems in getting the Hootsmon web site up and running properly.
20

AbandonAllHope,

17/12/2008 10:56:28
Prozacs rubbish
21

Warden An' All, Reborn,

17/12/2008 10:59:00
12-Darien-I would argue that a country which was so easily fooled into sinking half of its cash into a risky scheme such as the Darien Scheme, prior to 1707, was already not thinking straight, and was prone to erratic behaviour.
22

Miss Pixie,

formerly of Dinleyhaughfoot Cottage, Roxburghshire 17/12/2008 11:04:20
One fact is this; there are loads of people who have mental issues who have not sought help. Another fact is; the stigma attached to any diagnosis of a real mental problem keeps people from seeking help. The public in general is terribly ignorant about depression and every other connected isse.
23

Warden An' All, Reborn,

17/12/2008 11:04:26
10-Vincent-W-You need to read what I said again, and then you would understand why my answer would be yes.
24

Morry,

Scotland 17/12/2008 11:18:18
Doctors need money, therefore, as Doctors are paid per head on their books, Doctors are often "overbooked", they seldom have time to look at the patient, let alone examine that patient,
A patient goes to see his Doctor, either the Doctor say's oh Mr. so and so, you are depressed, here take these, these will have you right in no time at all, what do we end up with another depressive dependent on pills!
Failing that poor Mr. so and so is referred to another Doctor, one who will examine the head of Mr. so and so,
and what does he diagnose? oh poor Mr. so and so, you are in my opinion somewhat depressed, here take these pills, these'll help sort you out and what do we get another poor Mr. so and so, dependent on drugs to help with poor Mr. so and so perceived depressed state of mind.
I am not saying these people are not depressed, what I am saying that the "case" is not always depression and that our overworked doctors don't have the time or inclination to look deeper into the perceived malaise of their patient,
Depression is a convenient label.
25

Bejjy,

17/12/2008 11:18:58
#4 Wardog

Aye, and all Scots; how depressing is that?
26

The Leith Cowboy BAM BAM,

Bruxelles 17/12/2008 11:36:39
How do i get my hands on cheery drugs ?
27

Shredder,

17/12/2008 11:39:44
Happy pills are basically "junk medicine": they have undesirable side effects in many instances and are one of those modern remedies that no one knew they needed until they were invented.

Having said that, belief in the merits of the Nats' separation policy is "junk politics", so maybe the SNP are the very party to get to grips with the issue!
28

DeniseX,

17/12/2008 11:49:43
Pharmaceutical companies indirectly pay doctors to prescribe drugs. There many causes of depression, which can be 'cured' without drugs.
29

John S,

17/12/2008 12:00:35
One of the top five antidepressant drugs prescribed in Scotland-Citalopram - was the equal top antidepressant drug prescribed in 2005 and the top antidepressant drug prescribed in 06, 07 and 2008

Number "prescribed items" for Citalopram in Scotland all figures are approx.
1996------5,000 ---Tory Pary UK government
1997-----15,000 ---Labour Party was elected
1998-----50,000 ---Labour Party UK government
2001-----290,000--Labour Party was re elected
2005-----600,000 -Labour Party was re elected
2007-----725,000--GB became PM
2008-----850,000--GB is still PM
2009-----?????

Citalopram is a drug used to treat depression and other related conditions. It is also used on occasion in the treatment of body dysmorphic disorder and anxiety or panic problems.
30

sheena,

Menstrie 17/12/2008 12:03:12
27 Shredder - How dare you say that. Anti-Ds have literally saved my life and allowed me to continue to function and be a useful member of society. Both my Doctor and myself resisted them for years and I had the 'talking therapies' and was then referred to a pyschiatrist. Eventually agreed by all that I had no mental problems just did not produce enough Seratonin. Result? Prescribed my one-a-day, was able to carry on working, then retired and now get great satisfaction, even joy, from minding my Grandchildren. I only wish that such drugs had been available for my poor mother and her mother who both suffered (as did their families) from this curse for many years.
31

Shredder,

17/12/2008 12:21:13
#30 Sheena: a friend of mine was prescribed serotonin and suffered fits when the doctor tried to wean him off it. Indeed, the only result was to worsen both his medical and physical condition.

I wouldn't advise anyone (no matter their mental state) to touch this modern junk medicine with a barge poll. Indeed, I recently dissuaded my girlfriend from allowing her doctor to prescribe them to her: she is now perfectly normal without them (although I very much doubt there was anything medically wrong with her when the doctor wanted to prescribe the serotonin!), which just proves to me that the whole "happy pill" industry is a modern nonsense: end of!
32

BorderLineScottish,

17/12/2008 12:27:36
Anti-depressants had no effect on me!

The doctor just couldn't figure out why, with all this beautiful countryside and fresh air, I should be depressed! Then I realised, it was all the dour faces and negativity that I encountered in everyday life.

All that obsession with "Independance", "Down with the Union", "England is bleeding Scotland dry", "Broon, Broon, Broon!"

The answer? "Leave at once, young laddie!" was the good doctors advice, as he doled out another sick-note.

We did, I got better. By the way, the doctor is from Yorkshire, so he understood my predicament precisely.

Seriously, the pills do serve a purpose when given to the right person. Too many people regard being "fed up" as being depressed and to be honest, the doctors don't take much persuading to dish out the Prozac.
33

Darien,

Panama 17/12/2008 12:27:43
#21 Warden: As you know, the Scottish Darien Scheme was ruined by the actions of perfidious albion, aka England. If you are looking for "erratic behaviour" and "risky schemes", nobody could possibly beat NewLab, Gordon Brownshirt and indeed Westminster in buying up all the bust UK banks and zillions of toxic debt. Face it, the UK is well and truly bust this time, because there will be no new jobs to replace the ones destroyed, and no new demand based again on debt, and hence there will be no 'recovery'. 'Great Britain' will not recover from this and even rabid British Nationalists should recognise that. Scotland needs to get off the sinking GB-Titanic pronto. And I mean within 2-3 years max, and prevent perfidious albion from interception another 30 years of Scotland's black gold, otherwise the whole 'nation' will be on prozac, permanently.
34

G,

dundy 17/12/2008 12:37:13
Depression is often a symptom of another malaise...I think Scots are prone to depression for genetic and social reasons.

We are one of the most negative nations on earth. We are nation of people who take responsibility for our failings and tend to see failure in many successes.
We tend to keep our feelings in and show little emotion.
We have a tendacy to drink to "let off steam"
All of these things together lead to a society where depression is almost bound to occur....
then we get this bunch of no-hoper chancers "running" the country as well...lucky white heather....
35

,

17/12/2008 12:41:14
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36

The Tin Man,

17/12/2008 12:45:33
I can't be bothered to write a comment. Must be depression. Off to the doctor's for IB and pills.
37

,

17/12/2008 12:51:04
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38

First Virginian,

USA 17/12/2008 13:18:03
What happened to taking brisk walks several times each day?

Our children spend all day in from of the TV, computer, or video games, when they are not expected to be sitting in the classroom.

How many of us spent our childhood being taken for a daily stroll in the pram and played outside most of the day?

If we would turn off our computers and televisions and take long walks...with or without the dog...we would suddenly start feeling less like unhappy robots and more like glad-to-be-alive human beings.



39

First Virginian,

USA 17/12/2008 13:20:25
#39 Correction

"...spend all day in FRONT of the TV..."
40

Brodric,

17/12/2008 13:20:34
I am saddened by some of the trite comments about depression. No wonder people don't want to admit they suffer from depression or other psychological/mental illnesses.

People who suffer from depression are not able "to pull their socks up and get on with it". It is debilitating, mentally and physically, and is a condition which affects almost everyone at some point in their lives - at varying degrees. Some depressions don't require drug treatment, but clinical depression, continued stress and post traumatic stress syndrome definitely do. And there are people whose seratonin production is depleted.

Until somebody is faced with very difficult and challenging situations, they don't know what it is like, but that doesn't mean that you cannot have EMPATHY for your fellow human beings. Without empathy, mankind is diminished.

No 38 Peter - you sum this up well. When people have high expections of themselves, and others also have high expections of them, to do superhuman things, then the result can be disastrous. For the military, until this debate is out in the open and we understand that a man can be both courageous and afraid at the same time, that a man carries out duties which leave him with internal conflict, then military personnel will not have the help they need to live with the internal conflict nor to adjust to "normal" life.

Last week, I went to Stirling to welcome back the Argyll and Southern Highlanders from Afghanistan. They need the support of the population to uplift them and to show them that we care what happens to them.
41

Brodric,

17/12/2008 13:22:45
I have gone stark raving mad. The Argyll and Sutherland Highlanders. A Scottish regiment with a long pedigree of outstanding merit and courage throughout the years.
42

,

17/12/2008 14:11:39
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43

Yok Finney,

Ross-shire 17/12/2008 14:16:31
"In the first million years of humans on planet Earth, we have the phase one ice-skater's spin-off pattern deploying humans to unknown, remote-from-one-another lands. In the twentieth century, we have the phase two physics teacher's wave returning upon itself to complete its cycle."

So look on the bright side.
44

Professor-Quincy-Adams-Wagstaff ,

17/12/2008 14:26:20
Oh dear, looks like Jackie Priest got the comments pulled from the Pensions webpage.
45

Scunnert,

17/12/2008 14:33:45
Oh dear - looks like a remarkable consensus got the comments pulled on the post office thread. Can't have people agreeing with each other - too much of a threat to Mandelson's plans for our future.
46

Scunnert,

17/12/2008 14:39:56
Reseaarcg I'm familiar with showed that dietary intervention is just as effective in treating depression as SSRI's alone. However, both together were more effective still.
47

First Virginian,

USA 17/12/2008 14:44:40
#38 Peter

Our brave US soldiers have been dealing with these problems since the Vietnam War.

Much of the change in the attitude of the people toward our military comes from various crackpot religious leaders who condemn war in total.

These are the same illogical social-change agents who oppose capital punishment for criminals under any circumstances.

When you have religious leaders spouting such nonsense and who make a soldier believe that he is committing a "mortal sin" if he does defend his country and family, there are bound to be horrendous repercussions.

Our military heroes need to become more active in facing down these crackpot types who are in reality cowards from the beginning.

Pill-pushing doctors only add to the problem, and psychologists who put a grave name to these very proper feelings of frustration and stress are no better.

Western nations are fast becoming matriarchal societies where women train our men to be effeminate rather than strong and masculine as they were created to be.

They do so at the peril of our entire Western culture.

These misguided social-change agents can succeed only if you allow them to do so.



48

,

17/12/2008 14:51:56
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49

Brodric,

17/12/2008 14:55:52
Peter - I think many people would like to help and support, but we don't know how, especially when you are not in their family or community. Going to Stirling and being there is one way many people wanted to show that they care. The next step, in 3 or 6 months or a year, how do we do it? If you have any ideas, now is a good time to say!

Nothing I can say or do will make you feel different, though I recognise and understand what you mean about guilt and worthlessness and the black hole that is created by those feelings. Your wife sounds great and I hope that you get through this and continue to get through this. And although you rightly say you are never really healed or cured, there is a point, a turning point, which can/will be reached when you can think about your experiences and your mates without being overpowered by it.

I will remember you and your family and think about you. And I hope that Christmas will bring you the comfort of family and new friends and hope.
50

Stuntman Mike,

17/12/2008 14:56:12
#45: Priest wasn't a "happy" bunny today and Mr H's only response was to accuse those anxious to protect public funds from being paid to those not entitled to them was to shout "bah humbug"!

Not a good day for nationalism.
51

Brodric,

17/12/2008 15:00:31
49 First Virginian - You say "Western nations are fast becoming matriarchal societies where women train our men to be effeminate rather than strong and masculine as they were created to be".

What does all that mean. And what help is that. You are an utter insensitive and inconsiderate nitwit, who hits from the hip, not the brain or empathy. Sounds like you also have never served in the military, or if you have, you have little experience of action.

What tommyrot you spout about masculinity. Women are able to talk about their problems and their feelings in a way that is helpful - and men can learn by this example. Its not being cissy or effeminate you dolt. Its about being HUMAN.
52

Schot,

17/12/2008 15:00:56
Peter,

CombatStress.org.uk helps service people suffering without a support network. Maybe you would find some worth in helping out the younger soldiers who are facing up to what you yourself have been through. Maybe some of the other posters here could buy their calendar or Christmas cards ?
53

Tormod,

Auld Reekie 17/12/2008 15:03:59
52 Stuntman if you want to protect public funds do you really think that the overpayment to the pensioners, is a good place to start, what about the current state of the UK balance sheet.

I mean in pure financial terms what costs more the MOD bungling another procurement or the overpayment for the pensioners?
54

Tormod,

Auld Reekie 17/12/2008 15:07:33
Mike it's not about nationalism I said this on the thread the whole matter Should have been handled with much more tact than it has been, each person involved could have been contacted and a representative of DWP to go to there home and go over options with them.
55

Brodric,

17/12/2008 15:10:39
Tormod has obviously been beamed into the wrong place.
56

Schot,

17/12/2008 15:12:53
Nine out ten Scots take depressants, in the form of alcohol. Alcohol affects the chemistry of the brain, increasing the risk of depression and suicide. I am a total hypocrite for pointing this out because when my cat was killed yesterday I self-medicated with whisky, now I am depressed and hungover.
57

Shredder,

17/12/2008 15:15:32
#38 Peter: I fully sympathise with patients such as you who have a serious condition; I was only making the point that doctors tend to dish out "happy pills" like sweeties to individuals who would be better off being left to their own devices.

I have never suffered from depression, but know that I could, at some points in my life, have been able to persuade a doctor to prescribe for me Prozac or the like on the ground that I was suffering from everyday (non clinical)depression.
58

Tormod,

Auld Reekie 17/12/2008 15:18:00
Sorry Brodric I was replying to Stuntman I will stop as this thread is about Mental Health, that is a very serious subject.
59

Warden An' All, Reborn,

17/12/2008 15:18:26
33-Darien-Ignorance has always found a good home in those scots who wished all their troubles to be English in origin, and you are obviously are one of them.
The area of Darien had already been claimed by the Spanish, so the Company of Scotland had no claim or right to that land.
Did you know alba and albion are the same, and the main land of Great Britain was also known as alba too?
Recession comes and recessions go, this isn’t the first one and this won’t be the last one. Being independent will not stop recession, and only a fool would believe it would.
60

Stuntman Mike,

17/12/2008 15:30:06
#55 Tormod: it's a matter of principle. Whatever one may think of the price of defined benefit public sector pensions, each individual pensioner should only receive what they are entitled to.

What about the situation of those who are in receipt of the pension they are entitled to and have to watch others receiving extra payment as a result of an administrative bungle which the Nats refuse to put right because they see it as yet another opportunity to create tension with Westminster?
61

Brodric,

17/12/2008 15:33:52
Tormod and Stunstman Mike - why don't you go to the pub for a pint together - no, seriously.
62

Jock MacTamson 2,

Highlands 17/12/2008 15:34:51
I have met people who genuinely are improved with medication who would not be able to keep any type of normal life without the medication keeping them balanced.

I have met people who are just professional victims with nothing more wrong with them than being bone idol and lazy.

I think the GP's have alot to answer for and the drugs industry should be viewed with total suspicion as they cannot be trusted. Too much money available make men criminal.

I also strongly believe that people spend to much time reviewing their own lives and position within society.

We now have an easier life than any past generation. Yet we are the most unable to cope. We are pathetic at times.

In days gone by people witnessed war, starvation, brutality and struggle for much of their lives. Yet they were not sitting about moaping, crying or lying in bed unable to get motivated.

Too many people still being breast fed by the nanny state.
63

Alba Abú,

The Republic of Alba 17/12/2008 15:37:56
Who could blame one in ten of our people for being in a depressed state of mind and body.More than 300 years of English rule in Scotland is enough to depress an anti- depressant.
64

Scunnert,

17/12/2008 15:43:37
62 Warden An' All, Reborn

"Being independent will not stop recession"

You're absolutely correct. What it will do, however, is give the nation the power to act in its own best interests during a recession.

"A key component to anxiety and depression are feelings of powerlessness."

tinyurl.com/6nyknm
65

Stuntman Mike,

17/12/2008 15:53:09
#68 Scunnert: but the UK is a modern European democracy. There are many secessionist areas in Europe: does this make their parent countries any less democratic in your view?

You are right about one point though; nationalism has its roots in a psychiatric feeling of being diminished in the presence of a perceived out group.
66

Stuntman Mike,

17/12/2008 15:55:24
Erratum: there are many areas with secessionist movements in Europe.
67

Faux Cul,

17/12/2008 15:55:46
All cmments pulled from thread about

UK troops will have finished their task by 2009 in Iraq

Maybe something I said?

Maybe something I said about Lord Handleman?

If it was, we'll find out soon enough.
68

Scunnert,

17/12/2008 16:01:05
70 Stuntman Mike

No idea what you're going on about Mike. Perhaps you should read up on marginalized communities.
69

Brodric,

17/12/2008 16:06:38
Existentialism goes a long way to explaining the angst of modern man. And there are other agents at work here, including the effects of the industrialisation of the west and spread of technology. And Marx explains a thing or two too.

Man's activity is divorced from its connection to his life, apart from the salary that is. Worth is now related to salary, not to real values

Man is often left with disconnectedness, powerlessness, conflict of interests (personal and work).

High expectations and feelings of being unworthy.

etc etc etc.
70

Brodric,

17/12/2008 16:07:51
I was addressing my comment to Joch Tamson 2.

Suddenly realise the irony of his comment related to his name.
71

lulach mac gille coemgain,

17/12/2008 16:08:00
Life under a London Government
72

scuirle,

Derry 17/12/2008 16:16:11
Antidepressants are not 'junk drugs'. To lump the whole bunch shows one's ignorance. Some poeople react badly to one or another, that's why the drugs are prescribed so the doctor can help find the correct one if the problem merits it. But, problems arise when medication is handed out INSTEAD of counceling. These drugs should only be used with counceling so that the root problems will be addressed, not glossed over.
73

Stuntman Mike,

17/12/2008 16:18:47
#73: the UK is a democracy, right!

Scotland is an integral part of the UK and is not occupied, right!

You are a Nutty Nat, right!
74

Scunnert,

17/12/2008 16:18:57
Eat a high tryptophan diet.
75

Scunnert,

17/12/2008 16:23:06
78 Stuntman Mike

"You are a Nutty Nat"

"other major foods high in tryptophan includes fruits such as bananas, all kinds of nuts including hazel nuts"

tinyurl.com/6nrvzm


76

Stuntman Mike,

17/12/2008 16:34:22
#79: I think we all know what nationalism's full of!
77

Scunnert,

17/12/2008 16:41:52
81 - Begone
78

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17/12/2008 16:49:09
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17/12/2008 16:56:29
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English flag,

17/12/2008 17:03:21
You jockos inhabit a sclerotic nation of subsidy junkies, never mind the happy pill junkies LMAO
81

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17/12/2008 17:04:36
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17/12/2008 17:09:07
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17/12/2008 17:18:06
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The Master,

17/12/2008 17:23:34
#90: just logged on! What's all this about? Why am I accused of posting when I've not been online? This really is surreal; I can assure you that I've been trudging the streets of Inverness most of the day (or on the phone!)

I'm in urgent need of a central flat in the town for an associate of mine, if anyone's got any suggestions! I've told her not to mention that she smokes, as that seems to put off landlords nowadays.

My view on all this is that antidepressants are frequently prescribed when they are completely unnecessary (usually if someone is just finding they can't cope with the usual ups and downs of life) and that they only have a role if someone is seriously mentally ill.
85

Miss H,

17/12/2008 17:36:30
66 You say we have an easier life than past generations. I think that is debatable.

People have a higher standard of living in material terms for sure but they also work harder for it. People work longer hours and more anti social hours Emails. Mobiles – we are constantly connected. We get very little time off in reality.

Perhaps that is one of our problems. We may be materially wealthier but we are time poor. There was some survey that showed most people would take a reduction in salary if they were able to work shorter hours. If we were going to be creative about it maybe that is how we should be approaching the recession. Instead of those who are in work having to do longer and longer hours, while those who are out of work have nothing to do, we should all be working less. Let’s hear it for a 4 day week.
86

Miss H,

17/12/2008 17:38:20
58 Pete I am sure PTSD has always existed it was just not identified.

As I understand it a lot of the impetus to research it came from the fact that more Vietnam veterans have killed themselves since the end of the war than were killed during the course of it. I also understand that the same is true of Falklands veterans. Quite possibly it has been the case in conflicts in the past as well but no-one made the connections or recorded the data.
87

EnglishHighlander,

17/12/2008 17:39:05
#67 Alba Abú
"More than 300 years of English rule in Scotland..."

What a load of bo**ox! NO part of the UK is ruled by anyone and, ironically, the men who are giving you the most grief (and the rest of us) are in fact Scottish. A fact that is probably not lost on the population of the rest of the UK.

#87 English flag
If you are, in fact, English. You are a bigoted numpty!

I there any topics on here that do not get twisted into the repetitive Nationalists/Unionists claptrap?

As for the anti depressants, they are just as widely used elsewhere and probably by a high percentage of people who don't really need them. We have to look at the way the GPs dish them out. Several times my wife has been recommended to use them, several times she has said no. All she wanted was a tonic to help her get her energy levels back up.

88

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17/12/2008 17:39:30
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17/12/2008 17:40:22
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Faux Cul,

17/12/2008 17:42:49
#103
Aberdeenshire Scot,
17/12/2008 17:40:22

103% Idiot

Begone!
91

Miss H,

17/12/2008 17:43:30
104 I thought that was mildly amusing actually.
92

The Master,

17/12/2008 17:44:31
#100: hope you don't make contact with the bumper of my Passat some day! Who'd be right then!
93

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17/12/2008 17:45:25
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EnglishHighlander,

17/12/2008 17:46:38
#103 Aberdeenshire Scot

Exactly the response I expected.
It's because she reads the sh*t on here!
95

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17/12/2008 17:46:40
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17/12/2008 17:47:07
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17/12/2008 17:48:40
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EnglishHighlander,

17/12/2008 17:49:02
#111 Now you're getting predictable.
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17/12/2008 17:50:16
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Son of one of Stirlings finest,

Weston S Mare 17/12/2008 17:53:04
Aberdeenshire Twot, Whats up old thing, 5 minutes and you have not cried foul to the moderator.
101

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17/12/2008 17:54:22
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17/12/2008 17:54:50
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The Master,

17/12/2008 18:02:13
#118: some time since I actually drove the Passat (it's basically used by others for business purposes!)

I shall not be spoiling my 9000 with mangled Nat.
104

Hugh Roscombe,

17/12/2008 18:03:43
123

I prefer Ritalin crackers myself.
105

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17/12/2008 18:03:54
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Hugh Roscombe,

17/12/2008 18:05:53
Spook

Tell Bird of prey to click here and wait for tomorrow's stories.

http://thescotsman.scotsman.com/Backissues.aspx?backissue=18Dec-08
107

Hugh Roscombe,

17/12/2008 18:06:56
I s-e-n-s-e A-y-r-s-h-i-r-e!
108

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17/12/2008 18:08:07
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Hugh Roscombe,

17/12/2008 18:10:15
128

Sentinel?
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17/12/2008 18:11:25
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17/12/2008 18:12:56
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17/12/2008 18:16:42
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Hugh Roscombe,

17/12/2008 18:22:15
Hooso el Pooso amigos.
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Son of one of Stirlings finest,

Weston S Mare 17/12/2008 18:23:35
135, Its all getting a bit cryptic, I am afraid you have lost me on this one, are you and Aberdeen Scot one and the same? or do you belong to a mutual admiration society.
115

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17/12/2008 18:25:05
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kennedysglass,

17/12/2008 18:25:15
#136: don't include the Master in that list: the creator of kimba and EF can only be classed as a comic genius!
117

kennedysglass,

17/12/2008 18:26:05
#142 "snarling little under 16s": jailbait, spookie old fruit?
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17/12/2008 18:26:17
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Darien,

Panama 17/12/2008 18:26:49
#62 Warden:"Recession comes and recessions go"
Aye, maybe, but this is the big one, and GB will not recover from it. Scotland has a chance, but only if it becomes independent, strengthened by oil.

On Darien and Perfidious Albion you are singularly lacking, though that is no surprise for a British Nationalist who thinks of Britain as a 'nation'.

Darien - The English East India Company threw its financial and political weight into defeating the Scots attempts to create a colony on the Darien Isthmus. The disease and lack of supplies experienced by the 1200 settlers was due to the English policy of refusing to sell anything to Scottish settlers and to block others from doing so. The second Scottish expedition was attacked a number of times by Spaniards and eventually forced to capitulate. Half the nation's wealth was lost in the quest (sounds almost as bad as GB today!). The Scottish investors were recompensed (or bribed) by the Treaty of Union, prompting Robbie Burns to remark that those who had signed the Treaty had been “bought and sold for English gold”. Question: who has gold enough to buy out bust Albion today? China? UAE?

Perfidious albion - Albion is an ancient name for Britain. "Perfidious Albion" is taken to mean "treacherous England". It was a phrase used by the Emperor Napoleon, among many others. It means England is not trustworthy in its dealings. As in like Harold Wilson and Jim Callaghan telling the Scots in the 1970's that oil would only last a couple of years and that Scots were too poor and stupid to get by on their own, and so needed perfidious albion to look after them.
120

Hugh Roscombe,

17/12/2008 18:32:33
"snarling little under 16s"

This of course was Gary Glitter's downfall.
121

Hugh Roscombe,

17/12/2008 18:32:54
... that and After Eights ...
122

Hugh Roscombe,

17/12/2008 18:34:29
Ooh - we hit €1.08 for 20 seconds - then down again.

Isn't one of the main tram contractors to be paid in euros?
123

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17/12/2008 18:37:56
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Hugh Roscombe,

17/12/2008 18:40:16
150

Sorry.
125

Jock Tamson,

St John's Wort. 668mg daily 17/12/2008 18:45:12
Geez, this thread is depressing.

A clearance or 2 will sort the Jockoes out - nicht wahr?

Nae sunlight and terrible news on a daily basis. Nae wonder.
126

Son of one of Stirlings finest,

Weston S Mare 17/12/2008 18:45:35
150# Vincent W. I echo Hugh Roscombes apology, you are right off course depression is all to real for many people and you are right to chasten us.
127

Jock Tamson,

Scotland, Caledonia, Alba 17/12/2008 18:48:44
Pharmaceutical companies in redundancy crises as sun shines on Scotland in 2009.

128

Jock Tamson,

Scotland, Caledonia, Alba 17/12/2008 18:52:54
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=0jNN-NSHZ6w
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English flag,

17/12/2008 18:52:59
152.the scottish executive declared itself a bona fide government shortly after the nats assumed power,what more do the subsidy loving jockos want for crying out loud
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17/12/2008 18:55:20
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17/12/2008 18:56:18
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Warden An' All, Reborn,

17/12/2008 18:57:24
68-Scunnert-Though a key component to anxiety, the feeling of powerlessness will not cease due to independence, there will always be people in a position within society who believe themselves to be powerless.
The thing about recession is a nation’s lack of power to act in its own best interests until the economies world wide settle down enough to stop any negative reactions on there economy.
133

Jock Tamson,

Scotland, Caledonia, Alba 17/12/2008 18:58:25
Anger is the next dynamic up from depression, English flag@156.
134

Hugh Roscombe,

17/12/2008 18:59:45
156 English slag

Didn't you read Vincent's post? Think shame.
135

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17/12/2008 19:22:26
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Warden An' All, Reborn,

17/12/2008 19:22:33
146-Darien-What makes you think Great Britain will not recover?
Any settlement on a breakup of Great Britain would mean dividing up the gas and oil. Scotland didn’t pay for the industry to be put together.
There had been a peace agreement put together between Spain and England, and as there were no political agreement between the government’s of Scotland and England, England couldn’t side with Scotland, which would have put the peace agreement between Spain and England at risk. This is why the English had no choice but to put there political weight as you call it against the venture.
Rabbie Burns did say what you said, and then sided with and supported Great Britain for fear Napoleon would invade.
Are you saying the Scottish economy, or the scots living in scotland are pretending to not be industrious enough to run their own country?
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17/12/2008 19:33:39
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Yok Finney,

Ross-shire 17/12/2008 19:35:19
-- What makes you think Great Britain will not recover?

Only if peeps think the Union is as inevitable as the weather.
139

Navvy,

17/12/2008 19:42:16
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WHY DO WE NOT GET A REASON?
140

Scunnert,

http://scunnert-nation.blogspot.com/ 17/12/2008 19:43:10
91 Faux Cul

Aye - ye hiv tae watch oot fur thon punters!

95 Peter

In research I did some years ago we found that a diet high in tryptophan was as effective as SSRI's. However, a high tryptophan diet in conjunction with SSRI's had the best outcome.

159 Warden An' All, Reborn

Studies of marginalized communities have found high levels of depression, alcoholism, and drug abuse. Sounds like Scotland dinit?

No doubt these symptoms will persist after independence - at least until the labour utopian hoosin scheme shambles has been sorted.
141

Navvy,

17/12/2008 19:54:48
#146 & 163
Napoleon is a complete non sequitur he was 100 years later

No surprise that the Spanish did not want Scots, or anyone else in their back yard.

Malaria was a major reason for the failure of Darien. Some 200 years later it stopped Fredinand De Lesseps attempt to build a Panama canal (few mosquitos in the dry Suez desert) which was only successfully built when the US brought in steam power, railways and more - completed on the outbreak of WWI in 1914
142

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17/12/2008 20:56:29
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Miss H,

17/12/2008 21:34:07

158 But there is a direct connection Vincent.

Put simply Scotland has a large underclass – I know that is not the PC term but we all know what I mean. Look at the life expectancy stats, the incapacity and disability stats, the levels of drug and alcohol abuse, the high numbers of children deemed to be at risk and so on, usually concentrated in particular areas. Obviously people in that situation are likely to be depressed. Wouldn’t you be?

There is an economic cost to this as well as a human cost. Roughly speaking 20% of the working age population are economically inactive but take up a disproportionately high share of public resources.

For any government – of any party – in an independent Scotland it would be a top priority to break this cycle of poverty and underachievement. Because the existence of this underclass holds the whole of Scotland back. It does not hold the whole of the UK back however so it is not at the top of anyone’s list.

Obviously the SNP – and Labour and the Lib Dems, even the Tories – do place a high priority on tackling dependency. But without any powers over the tax and benefits systems and the economy the Scottish Government has its hands tied.
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Yok Finney,

Ross-shire 17/12/2008 21:44:22
-- It does not hold back the hole of the UK

Of course it does. That's why it's here, just as are the the underclass of Devon, Manchester, Essex or anywhere else.

It's an experiment on human beings gone wrong.
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drahcir,

pittsburgh, pa, usa 17/12/2008 21:45:29
i'm sure that number will only go up considering the global economy has died. scotties are going to be lots of zombies walking about, scary !

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jrfG2r4bTOc&feature=channel_page

goldieshouse.piczo.com
146

Son of one of Stirlings finest,

Weston S Mare 17/12/2008 22:18:42
During the course of the evening I have responded to Aberdeenshire Scot and as always he has sought sanctuary behind the moderator.He has had my comments deleted. I wish to take this opertunity to expose him for the coward that he is, what ever happened to free speech.
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17/12/2008 22:40:03
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17/12/2008 22:41:11
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Corky,

17/12/2008 23:21:14
Hi Tim

Is this you?

"Tim1234 is a 39 year old guy from Red Deer, Alberta, Canada.
I co author the Redneck Bar & Grill blog with my friend Ernie. We are mostly about humour, jokes and funny stories.And Beer. Come check it out: http://redneckbarandgrill.com/"
150

Warden An' All, Reborn,

18/12/2008 02:18:12
167-Scunnert-Scotland has a large number of marginalised communities away from the big cities and towns too, and so does many countries, so what is your point. Most with the problems you talk about don’t have independence issues.
151

!Ya basta!,

18/12/2008 02:24:34
Agree with some earlier sensible comments about alienation (also isolation, social exclusion), pill-popping culture, the underclass, the need for more counselling, meditation etc.

But one other significant factor I don't think mentioned is alcohol, a well known depressant. I think the effects of excessive drinking in our culture probably have a significant effect on the use of anti-depressents too.
152

Warden An' All, Reborn,

18/12/2008 09:03:47
178-!Ya basta!-Agree with you whole heartedly. Alcohol is the main factor in most of scotland’s problems. There is an unusually high number of people in our country with a sweet tooth, which as they get older moves onto alcohol. A sweet tooth is dependency to one substance which then is passed onto another, alcohol.
153

TimW1234,

Ottawa, Canada 18/12/2008 12:23:06
164 & 175 Vincent-W

How can any poster KNOW my contributions to this thread when you have them removed at #88 and #169?

You can dish it out but seem too thin-skinned to engage anybody in a dialogue that you disagree with and then throw out insulting and untruthful allegations to other many posters

Perhaps it is a good thing that you are married to a person who is familiar with psychological matters.

This posting, too, will probably be removed by you or one of your minions.

176 Corky

That is not me and the only place I have visited in Alberta is Calgary and that was for a conference on affordable housing as it affects Canadians.

I have listened to a "blue-collar" station on Sirius in a colleague's Jeep and found the humour to be rough-and-tumble and scatalogically entertaining, if you go for that sort of thing.

It certainly was a 180 degree turn from what I usually listen to on radio.

Once again, I have never lived-in nor visited Red Deer, Alberta although it may happen one day.

My primary residence is in Ottawa, Ontario and when I go west it is usually to Saskatchewan or British Columbia.

Alberta is a beautiful province and the Canadian Rockies are truly spectacular and Jasper and Banff are breathtaking but becoming too "touristy".

By the way, I but rarely drink beer since the hops and malts in it give me an immediate high that is bad for my blood sugar. I usually stick to red wine in the winter and Bombay gin and tonics in the summer.

I definitely don't take to Pimm's Cup because they are somewhat designed for ladies of a certain social standing who want to get drunk without hitting the "hard stuff".

I definitely will note the site you indicated but now it is back to my second cup of tea as it is 7:25 a.m. here in Eastern Canada.
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18/12/2008 12:59:18
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18/12/2008 13:04:47
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TimW1234,

Ottawa, Canada 18/12/2008 19:02:42
# 181 and # 182

You take yourself entirely too seriously and it might lower your blood pressure if you were more positive and did not obsess about certain people and things.

I have removed only ONE of my own postings from this thread because it was ill-considered and upon further thought I surmised it was inappropriate to the subject matter at hand.

And do YOU have any further and positive postings to add to this subject that will educate and illuminate us ON THIS SUBJECT?

In case you have forgotten it is about "Scots taking antidepressants" and NOT about me.

My posting at #180 was merely an observation and you can inflict any kind of conspiracy theory about it you want. That is the prerogative of anyone who wants to read it because this is a democratic forum that encourages free speech, no matter how off-the-topic it is.

I sometimes wonder why you are so obsessed about anybody's academic credentials as this blog in definitely not an academic journal where "learned" specialist/experts exchange theories, opinions, and propositions.

Sometimes there are even cleverly concealed jibes and backhanded and derisive comments just because these "specialists" want to see their names and musings in print.

"Publish or perish" is the concept, I think.

I feel it ill-advised for anybody to reveal anything personal about themselves to you because you stor up resentments, troll through past postings, and then bring up outdated postings that no longer have any relevance.

For anybody to even consider you as their official - or unofficial - biographer would be disastrous since I surmise you lack detachment and the ability to see the wider picture and prefer to concentrate on negative trivialities and worthless niceties.
157

Decent,

18/12/2008 22:28:31
I wish all you SNP and Labour fanatics would p*ss off somewhere else. And don't forget to take Tim with you. Peter has a lot of really interesting points to make. I do believe PTSD has been around for years. A lot of veterans of the world wars probably had it but were never diagnosed or treated. It was brushed under the carpet then and that is why a lot of them became alcoholics. The symptoms of PTSD from fighting in wars are very similar to the symptoms caused by child abuse.
158

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19/12/2008 09:28:41
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159

TimW1234,

Ottawa, Canada 19/12/2008 10:51:20
185 Vincent

The short answer to your question is: no. The long answer to your question is: no.

This subject has been discussed and commented upon to the point of exhaustion and anything I would have had to say would probably be a repetition of a previous posting.

I found many of the comments and anecdotal experiences to be most interesting and alarming.

Therefore, anything I would have to say at this point would be valueless since everyhting that has to be said on the subject has been said.
160

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19/12/2008 11:09:40
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19/12/2008 11:18:46
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TimW1234,

Ottawa, Canada 19/12/2008 13:40:42
188 Vincent

You really must get a life and stop obsessing about me.

I live in Ottawa, Ontario, Canada along the Rideau River in the diplomatic zone of Sandy Hill.

I have never been to Red Deer, Alberta and the picture of that Tim on the "redneckbarandgrill.com" site is definitely NOT me.

I am at least 10 years older and do not wear spectacles.

If you and Corky have your suspicions they are specious and without merit.

For God's sake, get a life!
163

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19/12/2008 13:50:35
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TimW1234,

Ottawa, Canada 19/12/2008 17:29:45
190 Vincent W*anker

Dearest Vinnie,

I LOVE being ignored. It gives me more time for reflection and research and to ponder the imponderables of life.

At least I have the courage to admit that I am sometimes boring, tedious, repetitive, and pedantic.

Look into the mirror closely, Vinnie, and you may have an alarming insight into your own state of being and its relevance to the great continuum of life.
165

TimW1234,

Ottawa, Canada 20/12/2008 18:01:44
MERRY CHRISTMAS AND HAPPY NEW YEAR 2009 TO ALL
166

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20/12/2008 21:01:22
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20/12/2008 23:27:04
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