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Harvie: Twitter ye not at my manners

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Published Date: 18 April 2009
A SCOTTISH MSP accused of "lacking emotional intelligence" over his blogging during a dinner with the Prime Minister today defended his actions.
In a letter to The Scotsman, Scottish Green co-convener Patrick Harvie has, however, partly admitted to another social faux pas at the dinner with Gordon Brown and Scotland's other political leaders.

It is understood that despite the dinner at Mr
Brown's North Queensferry home this week being full of bitter political foes – not least Mr Brown and SNP First Minister Alex Salmond – the only angry words exchanged and raised voices came in a row between Mr Harvie and Scottish Liberal Democrat leader Tavish Scott.

A source at the dinner said that a second conversation on football, which Mr Harvie despaired at on his Twitter page, which he updated throughout the evening, was started by Mr Salmond and Mr Brown as a means of stopping the two minor party leaders from spoiling the friendly atmosphere.

The meal reportedly involved "copious amounts" of Chianti Classico but, contrary to Scottish Government claims on the country's booze culture, this did not lead to any bad behaviour.

However, Mr Harvie has taken issue with criticism of himself over his constant use of his Blackberry to update his Twitter page during the evening by Mr Scott, who described the Prime Minister as "forbearing" about the "tweeting", and later by social etiquette guru Peter York who wrote in The Scotsman that Mr Harvie was "guilty of the worst kind of behaviour".

He added that Mr Harvie "lacked emotional intelligence" and compared the behaviour with reading a book at the table in the 1950s.

This led to another update on Mr Harvie's Twitter page: "This is the first time in my life that I've been chastised by an 'etiquette guru', whatever that means."

And, in his letter, Mr Harvie suggests that Mr York and other critics were just out of date. "Being only vaguely aware that such people existed, I am very grateful to you (The Scotsman] for securing the services of an etiquette guru to comment on my Twitter habit," he writes.

"However, I can't agree with the suggestion that a few discreet under-the-table text messages represent 'the worst sort of behaviour'."

He went on to say he may have been guilty of poor behaviour if he had sent messages that "betrayed a confidence or insulted other guests".

He added: "If my blog was full of innuendo, scandal and outright lies (I assume that I needn't Labour this point), then I'd understand the outrage. But a few harmless tweets at the level of small talk really don't merit condemnation."

He insisted that, contrary to Mr York's criticism, he was fully engaged in the conversation.

However, he claimed that the leading politicians around, including almost all Holyrood's political leaders except for Conservative Annabel Goldie who was sick, were less important than the members of the public who read his website updates, who "ultimately paid for the delightful dinner we enjoyed at the Prime Minister's home".

He added: "The feedback I've had from people who read my posts … was very positive."

And he claimed critics should accept that new technologies will only become easier to engage with in every situation.

But he suggested that there was a need to develop some kind of "tweetiquette" – social rules about what's expected.

"But they won't be rules grounded in the 1950s, you can be sure of that," he said.



Page 1 of 1

  • Last Updated: 18 April 2009 12:48 AM
  • Source: The Scotsman
  • Location: Edinburgh
  • Related Topics: Twitter , Green Party
 
1

Observer,,

Glasgow 18/04/2009 00:09:03
I understand that Patrick inputted his Twitter comments whilst the other guests were taking men in shorts chasing a wee ball about seriously. What social faux pas ?
2

Observer,,

Glasgow 18/04/2009 00:10:57
Peter York OMG dreadful dreadful Sloane Ranging idiot and arch Tory. I wish he would insult me it would be a compliment.
3

,

18/04/2009 00:16:06
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
4

Observer,,

Glasgow 18/04/2009 00:17:37
Are you still trolling my dear ? Is it not your bedtime ?
5

Ewan Randall,

18/04/2009 00:20:43
Why did anyone need to ask an etiquette guru on something which was obviously bad manners which didn’t get any better due to the frequency of times it occurred?
6

Andrew Horton,

18/04/2009 00:20:58
I might not like Brown (or Harvie for that matter) but if I were at a group meal with him I wouldn't be "tweeting" or any other activity at the table. It is rude, it shows a lack of maturity, and even more immaturity that Harvie can't understand why it should be criticised. In fact it shows just about the same level of maturity as he showed in the last budget.


"But they won't be rules grounded in the 1950s, you can be sure of that," he said.

Why not? Too many people wolf down their meals and don't know how to act properly in the presence of others these days. A return to some level of civility would be a welcome thing.
7

Dark Lochnagar,

http://darklochnagar.blogspot.com 18/04/2009 00:43:05
You Sir, are a ignorant oaf!
8

Observer,,

Glasgow 18/04/2009 00:44:20
6 How come it isn't rude to bang on about football ? It bloody well is. I start singing songs from the Sound of Music when people introduce football into mixed company on the grounds that if they can introduce nonsense I am not interested in so can I introduce nonsense I guess they don't care about.

I support Harvie. Football is for the pub not the dinner table.
9

Andrew Horton,

18/04/2009 00:54:09
12 Because they were having a conversation. If I'm at a dinner table and someone talks about something I'm not interested in (which incidentally would include football) then I wouldn't reach for my Blackberry -- I'd try to act interested, I'd be polite, I'd enjoy the conversation for the pleasure of conversation, and perhaps I might try to push the conversation to something I wish to discuss.

It's what grownups do.

Children reach for their toys because they find a topic 'booooring'.
10

Observer,,

Glasgow 18/04/2009 01:13:26
Football is immensely boring and it is given a place in our culture that we should not tolerate. However that is probably just me.
11

Observer,,

Glasgow 18/04/2009 01:19:08
I doubt very much if he actually twittered during conversations. It was probably during the peiods where otherwise he could have had an interesting time looking at the wall that he utilised his Blackberry.
12

Observer,,

Glasgow 18/04/2009 02:10:04
16 Why do you think I drink in the West end ? It is the one place where either football has no meaning or it is set in its proper context.

But I sense I am an unpopular voice on this ha ha well most bloggers are men, I am sure if I asked all your wives they would agree with me. Footballs importance is 0.000001 on the Richter scale.

But I won't nag you any more.


13

Fifi la Bonbon,

18/04/2009 02:27:42
How unpleasant - you invite someone to dinner and he constantly plays with his mobile phone under the table. Tolerable in a spoilt twelve year old, if his mum isn't there to tell him to behave, but not in a grown-up. He was obviously bored by the adults' talking. They should have excused him from the table and let him out to play in the garden, or maybe watch television or a DVD in another room.
14

Mallory,

Edinburgh 18/04/2009 06:12:42
Just plain rude. Tupical of the politicians we 'elect' these days.
15

greenhill,

18/04/2009 06:57:59
RE Observer,,Glasgow 18/04/2009 00:44:20 "I understand that Patrick inputted his Twitter comments whilst the other guests were taking men in shorts chasing a wee ball about seriously. What social faux pas ?"
............................................

Read the story again.The trivial subject was brought in by Salmond and Brown to move away from an argument involving Harvie and Tavish Scott.

He did not only "twitter" at that point but did so throughout the evening.

Harvie is a mindless moron .
16

Queen D,

Glasgow 18/04/2009 07:39:26
So says the Nuclear lobbyist!
I'm sure Mr Harvie would describe you in less than glowing terms too, Greenhill.
There is a greenhill far away , Blown there by a nuclear explosion eh ?
Observer , I used to get upset when half the so called news on BBC Scotland was devoted to the "beautiful game" ,now I just don't watch BBC news or much of BBC output at all.
Football is however the oil used by men in uncomfortable situations, they use jokes in much the same way, kind of socially inept silence filling!
17

Munguin,

18/04/2009 08:09:00
I think it’s rude to ignore other guests and your host at a meal and you would, I assume, need to do that in order to update your twitter. However, it’s just as bad to start an argument with another guest. How petty and trivial is this? If Alec and Gordon can be civil to each other why can’t Harvie and Scott? If they did that to me I just would not invite either of them again QED.
18

mr angry,

ayrshire 18/04/2009 09:12:51
Harvie is a complete plonker, he messed up on the budget because of a hissy fit and now shows he has no manners whatsoever , if it had been my dinner the stupid little oik would have been out on the pavement. How do these idiots get into these cushy jobs.
19

TWC,

exLabour 18/04/2009 09:19:03
Obs I'm surprised at you. Texting etc is the height of bad manners. Leave the room to msg or don't go to the function in the first place.
Harvie is a strange wee man, and I'm not talking about his sexual orientation.
20

The Former Mr. Angry,

Perth 18/04/2009 09:19:50
How does Harvie have time to "tweet" (as I think the verb is) and do a job at the same time. Right, I forgot that if you're Green a job is mutually exclusive and all you have to do is recite the usual litany about GW and play with your tweeter.
21

Weel Kent Jambo,

18/04/2009 09:28:42
A Holyrude politician indeed ;o)


#12 Observer - so the next time I'm at a dinner party and the ladies start to discuss to goings on in Eastenders or Stricty Come Dancing it'll be alright for me to start singing 'Hearts, Hearts glorious Hearts' will it? Afraid you come over as more of a plonker than a wind up merchant.
22

Pilrig,

Livingston 18/04/2009 09:56:03
14 - it is just you.

Nae cups in Gorgie !
23

El Franko,

18/04/2009 10:11:21
The low calibre of greenie activists comes as no surprise to me. As well as being scientifically illiterate, they are socially incompetent, unpleasant people in general. I have yet to come across an exception to this, admittedly crude, model.
24

HBOS Customer,

KILMARNOCK 18/04/2009 10:32:01
Are the taxpayers paying for his Blackberry?
25

Observer,,

Glasgow 18/04/2009 11:08:08
29 I don't talk about Eastenders or strictly come dancing as I don't watch such rubbish it's even more boring than football.

A lot of you seem to have missed the point. This was a political dinner not a convivial evening between friends. So all this faux outrage at his social gaffe is a bit silly.

32 Why don't you read the article Mr Harvie tells you that the tax payer not only paid for his Blackberry they paid for the dinner too.
26

Tris,

18/04/2009 12:27:36

I find myself in the strange position of agreeing wholeheartedly with Fifi. When you are at a grown up dinner party you behave like a grown up. You can't expect every part of the conversation to be of intertest to you. You put up with the boring bits and hope that soon the conversation will become more interesting. Only moody teenagers play with their cell phones when they are bored; politicians on £50,000+ are expected to know better.

It seems like Mr Harvie isn't really grown up enough to be invited to these things. Next time all the party leaders get together someone should take him for an ice cream and a trip to the park.

Anyway, big fuss about almost nothing. Let's have more coverage of the marvellous stories coming form the SNP conference that will improve life for all of us.
27

vitalspark,

Abbeyhill 18/04/2009 12:57:31
Petty little ignoramus, extremely rude in any book to ignore one's company and play with yourself underneath the table never mind when we the public pay for his dinner and his pension and etc etc.

28

Andrew Horton,

18/04/2009 13:17:43
24 Tris - I think it is more than almost nothing. After his pouting over the budget, and now this, it shows complete immaturity. If any party tries to do a deal with him and the Greens then they're taking a risk as children are too unpredictable.

33 Observer - It was a formal occasion, not a "political dinner". And because you don't understand how to act at a dinner-table doesn't mean the outrage from others is fake.
29

hoblar,

18/04/2009 16:03:25
The green guy is a bit of a bletherer and blusterer, and he looked a total plonker during the budget debacle where he derided brinkmanship demonstrating his lack of real world attitude to politics where solutions can often come after going to the wire.

He could have waited until the next day to update his tweeting, but the fact that he chose not to says something about his attention span, because for every 'tweet' he updated he could easily have been attempting to get consensus from all present about green issues.
30

Observer,,

Glasgow 18/04/2009 17:41:51
36 You really are quite a nasty piece of work aren't you. That is noted Celtic Lion.
31

Eve,

Scotland 18/04/2009 18:07:14
It's old news now!!!

Patrick Harvie, should have just let the dust settle on this subject. It's not very significant give the current climate is pretty bleak, due to recession.

All this ever was a distraction from what really matters. It was a dinner, a social occasion, taking heat away from what was actually said at the Questions & Answers and what went on at this cabinet meeting afterwards.
32

Andrew Horton,

18/04/2009 18:11:27
38 Observer - Lol, a nasty piece of work because I disagree with you and your poor social etiquette? Note what you like Observer. Keep a database, or sing about it next time someone discusses something you aren't interested in for all I care.
33

Fifi la Bonbon,

18/04/2009 19:32:35
#40 - you need to be careful. Observer once boasted about beating up TV presenter and successful author Muriel Gray in a pub toilet. She is known to bear a grudge over the smallest perceived slight. Also, if you're a council tenant, she has a job as a housing official and could make life quite difficult.

On the other hand, she's unlikely to be invited to the same kinds of dinner parties most of us go to.
34

Fifi la Bonbon,

18/04/2009 19:45:23
More than once, anyway.
35

Andrew Horton,

18/04/2009 20:28:38
Oh I shall try not to worry about what a silly little girl and her high horse might do to me. Besides I suspect she already has a grudge against me, which would explain the outburst above when she realised who I am.
36

Observer,,

Glasgow 18/04/2009 20:46:44
What a pair of saddos you two are. This is a newspaper web-site not a forum for analysing people. Who holds a grudge against someone they have never met ? Do catch a grip and stop taking this caper so seriously.

Patrick may have twittered but he was the only one who brought a bottle with him. So he isn't all bad. And I quite like the Greens, so there.
37

Hugh Roscombe,

18/04/2009 21:14:01
Fifi

Dolt.
38

Andrew Horton,

18/04/2009 21:17:49
I'm a "saddo" now am I? How apt -- I haven't been called that since I was at school. What will you be calling me next? A poo-bag?

Perhaps, if you don't hold a grudge, you would care to explain your tantrum at #38 on this newspaper web-site which brought the conversation down to the current level. Because let's be honest here, if we go by the way you acted on The Herald website when people disagreed with you, then it's not me who is the "nasty piece of work" is it?
39

Observer,,

Glasgow 18/04/2009 22:02:40
46 Why would I call you a poo bag ? I think the seriousness with which both you and Fifi appear to take this, with silly talk of ''grudges'' is sad.

38 is not a tantrum. But I do note that you personalise things. Not very useful in my view.
40

Andrew Horton,

18/04/2009 22:35:12
Oh it's "sad" again, fantastic. I can't write for Fifi but I assure you I find the way that you prance about on your high horse with a bag of anti-capitalism ideals quite entertaining, hilarious even -- I don't take you seriously at all.

But your little, what shall we call it then, expression of childish anguish? Your post at 38 was a little personal, characteristically nasty of you, and typical of the way you try to bully people who disagree with you. Frankly I doubt anyone capable of free thought could care less about what you find useful or not. Do note it all down, and maybe you can "mark my cards" too.
41

Observer,,

Glasgow 18/04/2009 22:45:09
Well you have to admit we anti-capitalists do have a point. Thanks for noting that I'm not a Johnny-come-lately, I have indeed been banging on about the subject for years.
42

Andrew Horton,

18/04/2009 22:52:41
Observer, though I find most of your ideas absurd I grant you that at least they are not the typical rants of those who speak not because they have something to say, but because they like the sound of their own voice. And while I don't think anti-capitalists do have a point I can agree that the present system as implemented is unjust and ultimately unworkable.
43

Observer,,

Glasgow 18/04/2009 22:59:14
It is ultimately unworkable. All the Government and indeed the other parties including the SNP are attempting to do is fix what is essentially unfixable. The ''traditional'' alternatives to capitalism are rooted in the last Century. We need to have some new thinking on the subject. The Greens have a role to play in that, because no matter how much you have personal disdain for Patrick Harvie, he is (perhaps unfortunately) representative of a group of people who are trying to view things differently. I will refrain from further comment as your dislike of me will not help the arguments that I favour. Hopefully you will hear them from someone else.
44

hoblar,

18/04/2009 23:58:36
Perhaps the Green Party in Scotland should get a better representative and figurehead than the one they currently have?

 

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