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Families face stark choice ... pay more for food or go GM

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Published Date: 21 July 2007
CONSUMER resistance to the idea of genetically modified foods must be overcome if there is be a solution to the growing problem of food inflation, scientists have said.
Horror stories about the dangers of so-called "Frankenstein foods" prompted a backlash in the UK against the use of more intensive farming technology.

But with the price of staple goods - including milk, cereals and vegetables - soaring well above inflation, a growing number of experts are concluding that consumers will soon have to choose between expensive food and cheaper GM.

Economists say climate change and growing global demand could leave Britain facing a "food-security" crisis for the first time since the end of rationing in July 1954.

Scientists are now calling for a fresh debate about GM crops, which they claim will reduce prices and mitigate the impact of farming on the world's environment.

Although unnoticed by many shoppers, food prices are rising faster in Britain than almost anywhere else in the Western world. Bread, for example, is up 15 per cent and milk up 10 per cent.

A COMBINATION of poor harvests - as a result of severe weather brought on by global warming - and demand for crops which can be used as biofuels, have led to rising commodity prices in a phenomenon that analysts have dubbed "agflation".

Yesterday, the National Farmers' Union warned that the cheap-food era will soon end.

At present, millions of acres of commercial GM crops are grown in US, India and China and elsewhere, but there are none in Europe.

Alex Salmond, the First Minister, has pledged that Scotland will remain free from GM crops, but food containing GM ingredients is available - provided that it is labelled as such.

However, some experts believe Scotland must reconsider its position on GM crops if prices are to stay low and food remain in plentiful supply.

Dr Simon Best, chairman of the Bioindustry Association, said: "We have got used to the luxury of low food prices but excessive demand and climate change will prompt many people to rethink their priorities as shopping baskets become more expensive.

"Organic farming requires four times as much land-use. It is an extensive method of agriculture, rather than intensive. Acceptance of biotechnologies will allow us to develop cheaper and better food and mitigate our environmental impact."

Professor Bill McKelvey, chief executive of the Scottish Agricultural College, said: "Food prices are going to go up and there is going to be a greater need for high production. One option for us is that we should consider the use of GM."

The issue of GM foods has polarised opinion in recent years. Advocates claim it will enable farmers to gain higher crop yields through better weed control and reduce the use of toxic pesticides.

Poor countries, they say, will be less reliant on hand-outs, the nutritional content of basic foods can be improved and vaccines to fight disease can all be added to GM crops. In essence, they claim it is the answer to the growing problem of feeding the world.

BUT critics, such as Friends of the Earth Scotland, believe the large-scale release of GM organisms into the environment would irreversibly damage the countryside, eliminating diversity and turning it into a green monoculture.

They claim it may cause damage to human health, contribute to the evolution of pesticide-resistant "superweeds", and make organic farming impossible because of cross-pollination.

In 2003, several sites in Scotland ran trials of GM crops, which attracted mass protests and the destruction of plants. There are no longer any GM crops in Scotland, though trials with GM potatoes are taking place in England.

Keith Adamson, a farmer at Wester Friarton, Newport-on-Tay, Fife, was involved in Scottish trials of GM crops and saw protesters attacking his field of GM oil-seed rape.

Despite this, Mr Adamson believed the UK could not continue to shun the technology.

"That is going to hurt a lot of people... GM will be needed to feed the growing world population," he said.

"GM crops may be seen as the monster at the moment, but I think in the future it will be our godsend."

THE Scottish Executive has stated its clear opposition to GM crops,

but Anthony Trewavas, a professor of plant science and fellow of the Royal Society of Edinburgh, who gave evidence on the GM debate at a committee of the Scottish Parliament, insists the products have been eaten by Americans and Canadians for over a decade without any evidence of harmful effects.

"If there is the political will to use GM products, we can go some way to solve the problem of starvation," he said. "Animal feed has come from GM products for a long time. The stuff is cheaper because of the reduction in the use of pesticides.

"The Executive's intention is to be GM-free and that's a mistake. You should not stop people making that choice."

Dr Best added that technology was already being used to extend the season of fruit and vegetables and improve the quality of meat.

"Techniques such as selective breeding and reproductive assistance are already in widespread use. Organic farming doesn't mean animals are roaming around having sex when they feel like it.

"GM crops and cloning get a negative reaction among many consumers because Europe was never allowed to have a rational debate about the potential benefits. It is now time we had that debate."

An Executive spokeswoman said: "GM crops are not grown in Scotland and we believe this respects the wishes of Scottish consumers who want local, high-quality produce. It helps Scottish farmers compete in overseas markets which place a premium on pure, naturally produced food, and it enhances Scotland's international reputation for the production of high-quality foodstuffs.

"Scotland has a wonderful and varied environment, which is rich in biodiversity, and our farmers have a long history of working with the land to produce quality crops and products that people want to buy. We do not wish to jeopardise this."

Crisis alert as impact of rising farm prices felt at checkout


MOST consumers in Britain probably have not noticed the increase in their weekly shopping bills, but the

price of cereals in the UK has jumped by 12 per cent in the past year and butter prices in Europe have increased 40 per cent.

Corn has doubled in price over the past 18 months, wheat prices have gained about 50 per cent, while sugar and cocoa prices are also on the up.

Analysts with Deloitte last week warned bread would go up by a further 5p a loaf because of rising wheat prices.

Sixty years ago, the average British family spent more than a third of its income on food - today the figure is a tenth. But for the first time in a generation, agricultural commodity prices are surging.

Nestle's chairman, Peter Brabeck, has warned that food prices around the world are set for a "significant and long-lasting" period of inflation, partly because of demand from China and India, and the increasing use of crops for biofuels, as well as general population growth.

This week the UN warned that rising prices for food would affect its ability to fight famine in Africa.

A report by the United Nation's Food and Agriculture Organisation and the Organisation for Economic Cooperation and Development, stressed that long-term prices would be up to 30 per cent higher than expected.

"Growth in the use of agricultural commodities as feedstock to a rapidly increasing biofuel industry is one of the main... reasons for international commodity prices to attain a significantly higher plateau," the report said.

The warning is likely to re-ignite the debate on food versus fuel. Under America's "ethanol policy", a quarter of US maize is converted into bio-fuels. As the US supplies more than two-thirds of the world's grain imports, the effect on food prices will be dramatic.

James Withers, deputy chief executive of the NFU Scotland, said consumers can no longer take food production for granted. "For the first time since the end of the Second World War, food security has been an issue again," he said.

"Food has been artificially cheap for a long time and we have expected to walk into Tesco and see the aisles fully stocked with food.

"The government has no food security policy and believes the rest of the world will feed the UK and that's not true. If you don't keep Scottish food production going... you could have a real food security crisis."

He cited the example of Argentina, which last year dramatically reduced beef exports, hitting world meat prices. Last month, thousands of Mexicans took to the streets to protest at the price of corn flour to make tortillas, which had risen by 400 per cent.

David Hughes, emeritus professor of food marketing at Imperial College London, commented:

"For some people on low incomes, if the price of food continues to increase... they will be hard hit.

He also believes that, as a nation, we will be forced to look closer to home to feed ourselves because the variety of produce will not be what we have come to expect.

He said: "Would we run out of food? No. We'd just have to adapt... eat more potatoes, more local, home-grown food. We'd have to look at more seasonal foods and totally re-think the way we eat."

TANYA THOMPSON

Dogged by protests from beginning


GM TRIALS were first announced in Scotland in 2002.

The testing prompted furious debate in the media and when the trials began, protesters descended on Munlochy, on the Black Isle, Ross-shire, one of 60 test sites in Britain.

The campaign attracted a "rainbow alliance" of demonstrators, who took a range of actions from blocking tractors sowing GM oilseed rape to lobbying parliament and MSPs.

Other protests that took place in Scotland included those at Daviot in Aberdeenshire and Newport-on-Tay.

In December 2002, protesters said they had been vindicated, when evidence from a six-year government research programme into the official trials showed for the first time in Britain that genes from engineered GM crops were interbreeding on a large scale with other crops and weeds.

Doctors from the British Medical Association suggested a GM ban to the Scottish Parliament.

The tests were later abandoned.

Controversial science at cutting edge


GM FOOD involves altering the genes of a plant, animal or micro-organism, or adding a gene from another living thing.

The ultimate aim of GM is to create better, more successful crops, and tackle issues such as pesticide use and falling food supplies.

Using genetic modification, genes can be switched on or off to change the way a plant or animal develops.

It can be used to reduce the amount of pesticide farmers have to use by altering a plant's DNA so it can resist the insects that attack it.

Genetic modification can give plants immunity to viruses, making crops less likely to fail and boosting yields. It can also improve their nutritional value.

The Food Standards Agency (FSA) said:

"No-one has ever been reported as suffering from illness because the food they had eaten had been genetically modified."

Despite this, the UK has resisted involvement in commercial GM crops.

Anti-GM campaigners have expressed concerns about GM cross-pollination, claiming it could make organic farming impossible.

Page 1 of 1

  • Last Updated: 20 July 2007 10:29 PM
  • Source: The Scotsman
  • Location: Edinburgh
  • Related Topics: GM food
 
1

Conan,

Here 20/07/2007 23:37:12

No, I won't hear of such a thing. Why, the people of the UK havd spoken. There will be NO GM here. Never. No, we'd far rather spend whatever it takes - whether we can afford it or not - than eat that CIA-inspired GM poison. We're pretty darned smart, us Brits. We are well aware that the GM food makes your male body parts small and not work. We know that inside each package of GM food there's a microscopic spy camera that the evil military-industrial complex will use to spy on us. We also know that GM food is nothing but part of Bush/Blair/Gordon/US/UK/Israel/CIA/Halliburton, etc., etc., plan to take over the world. Yes, we've got it all figured out. We're British and we're much too smart to fall for that.

2

connaughtboy,

20/07/2007 23:45:51

It's hardly a "stark choice".

Usual cr@p journalism here!

3

Gnasher,

21/07/2007 00:18:29

OMG we're all going to die.

4

Pictus,

Lake of Shining Waters 21/07/2007 02:55:21

If I eat these tomatoes, I'll be perfectly able to take a shower in Roundup (TM) with very few ill effects. The problem is they taste and smell like mice, and I gag. I might as well just starve to death and be done with it. Especially if they are not going to let dear Maxi back on here. Mousey tomatoes and no Maxi . . . what's the point?

5

Tatties ower the side,

Johannesburg 21/07/2007 03:32:06

So what is the problem? We've been eating processed cheese for generations and it hasn't killed off the human race yet!

6

Sean K,

Edinburgh 21/07/2007 04:08:33

The enormously powerful GM / Agribusiness lobby has been touting its lies about GM crops for decades now. Look at what they have promised developing countries and then at how where it was applied, GM took over farming in those lands and pushed the small farmer out.

Simon Best of the Bioindustry Association is hardly an objective commentator. The reason for the high prices of food in our stores has much more to do with membership of the EU than with non-GM crops.

The apparent difference in price between GM and non-GM foods does not tell the whole story. We have to look at the social and economic costs of permitting our agriculture to be ruled and controlled by the GM barons who have little interest in food security, employment or long term health.

7

Tatties ower the side,

Johannesburg 21/07/2007 04:21:58

On a less flippant note - this is just such tosh!!!

We are all Genetically Modified versions of our parents.

In procreation, the modification happens at random which can create great things like Abraham Lincoln, Nelson Mandela or Tony Blair (oops!).

But it can also produce deformity, mental insanity and bad things like Osama bin Laden or the b@astards that stole Madelaine.

So, is it not better that we take control of this process and create disease free potatoes and big fat carrots?

8

Venango,

northwest Pennsylvania 21/07/2007 05:06:14

I read a report last year about GM corn. Pigs refused to eat the GM food because they could tell that something was wrong with it.
The modified genes do not break down like in normal food. This will end up that these modified genes will infect all our food with dire results for all.

9

Pilrig,

Livingston 21/07/2007 05:42:40

GM food is barred from the restaurants of the Houses of Parliament.
Not good enough for them but good enough for us.

10

nell from falkirk,

21/07/2007 05:59:10

"scientists said"?
Well gosh then, it must be true!
But who are these "scientists"? Step forward the Bioindustry Association - " the trade association for innovative enterprises in the UK's bioscience sector....representing the sector and its needs to audiences...serving members interests" (quote from its own website).

Hardly impartial then.

GM crops are nothing to do with "feeding the world's poor" or "keeping down the price of food".
GM foods are about big corporations controlling the world's food supply, and making more money. The two are not unconnected

Messrs Monsanto for instance, main producer of GM crops engineered to be resistant to glyphosate weedkiller - and just guess who makes the biggest glyphosate weedkiller, "Roundup" (75% of ALL weedkiller used, think about it)?. Yes indeed, got it in one, Monsanto.

But some years on, and "Roundup" is in trouble. Vastly increased reliance on it in the US soya crop industry has effectively selected weeds resistant to "Roundup", so-called "superweeds".
The answer to which, since of course Monsanto aren't interested in solutions they can't make money off, is to chuck down MORE "Roundup", and now that's not working any more, add a few other weedkillers as well.
BUT nobody knows what this lethal combination is going to do to the food chain, which ultimately leads to us.

11

nell from falkirk,

21/07/2007 06:06:17

By the way "Scotsman", how much did the Bioindustry Association pay for this advertising?

The headline alone "Families face stark choice - pay more for food or go GM" is utterly misleading, sensationalist, inaccurate rubbish; it would be dubious in the pages of the "Daily Star". We most definitely don't expect to see the crude utterances of trainee propagandists in the marketing departments of the agrochemicals industry appearing in the pages of a "quality" newspaper.

12

Harbinger,

Fantasy Island 21/07/2007 06:18:05

Repeat it often enough and people start to believe it: "A COMBINATION of poor harvests - as a result of severe weather brought on by global warming"

Like it never happened before:

1872-1879: the 'growing-to-harvest' periods (May - September) of 1872, 1875, 1877, 1878 & 1879 all experienced well-above average rainfall - that of 1879 being some 160% above the 'all-series' mean.

British agriculture entered a period of depression beginning in 1875 and not recovering until 1884; 1883, The cold, wet weather delayed the ripening of the harvest, so that even in East Anglia in some places the corn had not been gathered in by Christmas. The decline of English agriculture, which lasted for fifty years, dated from this time."

So where was global warming then?

There are many other periods in history with far worse weather than now, but if it's hot it's our carbon footprint, if it's cold it's our carbon footprint.

The media swallow it and so do most of the public. The politicians just use it to control us.

13

Mofo-ya,

New York 21/07/2007 06:42:47

This is total cr@p, made up by greedy people who are so myopic in there outlook to life that they will stoop to blackmail and scare-mongering to make money.

however perhaps food prices should be higher anyway to stop people abusing the eco-system and getting fat in the process.

14

Cadgers,

Perth 21/07/2007 06:43:48

Agree with all the other posters. Beware, this articile has been GM on behalf of these GM companies.

15

Mofo-ya,

New York 21/07/2007 06:45:59

so angry had to write twice, I second that Nell, come on Scotsman you can do better than this! Your journalism smells like money!

16

Organic peasant,

NE Scotland 21/07/2007 06:57:55

What really annoys me as producer is the idea that farm price rises lead to food price rises, our returns fell for 10 years without 1 price cut, all supermarkets made more margin, we were told to cut costs and be more efficient now its the supermarkets turn. We warned against shortage and were told to get our returns from the market, my father sold grain for higher prices than I ever have. Production in the UK will take many years and billions of pounds invested to return to previous levels, the cost of how farming has been treated is now becoming clear. You were warned dont whine now!

17

Citylocal Fife,

Citylocal Fife News Room 21/07/2007 07:03:01

If we sorted out the CAP nonsense, and used the many acres now under set-aside to actually produce food, then I think the problem would soon evaporate.


Yours etc


Angus Whitton

18

Swilly Tisher,

Loch Maree 21/07/2007 07:07:17

The Americans (many , sadly , with rear ends the size of unwashed SUVs...and that's just the women !) are the fussiest food fanatics on the planet , coupled with an almost morbid - certainly incurable - obsession with their own health and mortality. If they can accept GM foods without the blink of an eye, then it's OK by me and it should be OK for you. Feed the world , but don't do it with one hand tied behind your back.Give the farmers the crops now...to replenish those lost in the floods. And if you're still anti-GM , be prepared - be very prepared - to pay skill-high prices for your weekly produce at the supermarket.As sure as Christopher Columbus set sail for the Americas , it's coming.And it can't be stopped now - by fair means or foul.

19

Slioch,

Scottish Highlands 21/07/2007 07:36:30

"Bread, for example, is up 15 per cent and milk up 10 per cent."

Are journalists congenitally innumerate?

That statement provides no useful information unless the additional information of how long it has taken for that increase to occur is also given.

20

von-Scharnhorst,

Brandenburg Preußen (ex Bathgate) 21/07/2007 07:58:38

"CONSUMER resistance to the idea of genetically modified foods must be overcome if there is be a solution to the growing problem of food inflation, scientists have said."

How much did they get in their fat brown envelopes passed under a table in the back room of a pub from a Monsantu employee, to say that then?

21

Gordon,

Edinburgh 21/07/2007 08:29:16

"Sixty years ago, the average British family spent more than a third of its income on food - today the figure is a tenth."

Time to get back to reality??

But what would that do for house prices?

22

Jeff, Surrey,

21/07/2007 08:31:52

This is a FALSE CHOICE.

Dreadfully incorrect headline and reporting.

23

jennie,

inverness 21/07/2007 08:42:55

#10 nell from falkirk - you took the words right out of my mouth.

So what happens if everyone who can stops growing, say roses (and spraying them with expensive chemicals) and grows their own veg?

What ridiculous alarmist tosh the Hootsmon is descending to. Silly season is upon us.

24

GD,

Glasgow 21/07/2007 08:43:06

Look, Governments want to keep increasing the population so the only way to do that is by producing this type of crop.
Give it another twenty years and we'll all be eating liquidised slime produced in a laboratory.

25

CB,

Edinburgh 21/07/2007 08:47:27

Yet another "bad journalism" day for the Hootsmon. It's getting depressingly repetitive, the shameful and wilful inaccuracies, wild sweeping statements, manipulative use of dubious "statistics". Indeed, the tedious regularity of such occurances can only lead one to the conclusion that the Hootsmon is slowly dying, choking on its own raw sewage output.

26

Mcsnagpile,

S.E.A 21/07/2007 08:58:42

The price of food is going up faster in the USA although they have been using GM foods for ten years. So it appears the point of the topic is not relevant.
The biggest problem is that multi nationals developing GM foods will have control of our food supply.Single sterile crop then go back to them for more seeds is their dream--dream on.

27

seillean a mhirdenibha,

USA 21/07/2007 08:59:54

Demand for food from China and India and the increasing use of biofuels. Those are the problems. That's what is raising the cost of food stuff. We are all competing with farmland used for something other than local needs. Biofuels are not the answer to oil shortages. China and India are so busy focusing on taking control of the worlds production of the world's manufacturing and retail markets for cheap goods and using that to buy food.
Stop buying cheap junk that you don't need. Use the money that you'll save to buy locally grown food of good quality.

28

Not A Unionist or Nationalist,

Dundee 21/07/2007 09:17:14

Some of the ignorance over GM amazes me - there has always been some element of GM in our foods - plant splicing and cross-breeding and selection are GM.

Did you know that the original potatoes were not white but selected and bred to be so?

Or that cows are not meant to produce milk all year round but again are bred, selected and reared to do so?

That the majority of dog breeds are GM?

And I could go on. the point is - GM is not necessarily bad - what is required is thorough testing on the saftey aspects of each GM product.

The irony is that some here will be opposed to GM food but be quite happy with the idea of gene therapy to eliminate human diseases!!

29

TaffonTravel,

Edinburgh 21/07/2007 09:17:45

We are one of the largest economies in the world - we can sort out our food issues by importing crops and growing organic. The post-war period of "crisis" were led by myths such as food security which led to intensified and environmentally damaging farming. GM crops need to be more sophisticated for the UK so we dont go back down that road again. This is power and influence working and the Scotsman are irresponsible to not to give a balanced report.

30

ddmc,

21/07/2007 09:44:07

Maybe Tesco's etc can stop making £billion profits at our expense, then food prices would be more realistic.

31

Ina,

Kincardineshire 21/07/2007 09:46:48

The only true sentence in that article is the comment from James Withers: "Food has been artificially cheap for a long time..."

Ask farmers from Canada - some of them toured Britain in the past - how growing GM crop ruined them, after they'd been promised the earth by the likes of Monsanto.

Oh, and while we are at it - only families face a choice? Well, that's ok then. As a single I don't have a problem, it seems.

32

The Strategist,

21/07/2007 09:54:10

There are an increasing number of analysts that have at long last realised that oil supply/demand are convering faster than they thought. A good percentage of them now agree that the oil price could easily reach $100 this coming winter and move up even further over the next few years.

In the USA in particular but increasingly in Europe and elsewhere this plus the concern over carbon emissions is driving the growth in the production of biofuels. Getting on for 30% of the maize crop in the USA is now going towards producing bio-ethanol.

The consequence is that less of that crop and others is going into the food chain. So, the price is going up and will continue to go up.

Scotland and the UK have a problem. We can't grown anything like enough of any crop to make a real impact on the liquid fuel market so we're reliant mainly on importing what we can from the global supply chain. Unfortunately, it is highly unlikely that the global supply chain will be able to provide for everyone's needs. That apart, there are risks attached to it such as weather, drought etc.

Because of Govt inaction and a lack of investment this country is far less well prepared than it should be for any shortage in liquid fuel supply or indeed a large increase in the oil price.

In this context the argument over whether crops should be GM or not is interesting but not particularly useful.

33

Phybyn,

Stewartry 21/07/2007 10:09:32

I just have to echo most of the previous posts, this was a piece of awful journalism, if she couldnt think of anything to write today then better say so instead of producing this piece of unfounded unresearched biased rubbish in honour of the food controlling multinationals

34

Helen,

21/07/2007 10:14:15

If people didn't eat McDonalds and other fast food rubbish or spend money on cigarettes they'd be able to buy good quality food. It's all about prioritising. I buy organic wherever possible because I care about what goes into my body. I don't smoke, I'm a vegetarian and I avoid McDonalds and other fast food outlets like the plague.

35

TaffonTravel,

Edinburgh 21/07/2007 10:21:47

Aye, if the UK or Europe plays its cards right we should stay out of GM until it becomes something more palatable. Once we get something of a balance between organic and GM we will be laughing - the rest of world will be fixing the damage while we profit.

36

Macbeth,

21/07/2007 10:30:03

# 30 is correct, Those who want evidence but still do not believe about how the rest oif the world is CHOOSING to use GM crops and food more than a decade after it was first introduced, read & take in this paper - it answers many of the incorrect hear-say repetition rants already posted. e.g. #19, it's already likely set-aside will not be operated in 2007/8, and #8 - the report you quote is pure folklore! #28 so-called sterile seeds do not exist. Please illustrate where they are, rather than repeat wrong information.
Paper in question is at http://ec.europa.eu/agriculture/envir/gmo/economic_impact...
but I doubt any of you who incorrectly believe Monsatan rules the world will bother to rtake the time as it is serious and not flippant. Remember, Tresco is 10 times the size of Monsatan - who rules our food? The supermarkets do, not the biotechies, whose patents BTW only last for 20 years.
Well done Scotsman for publishing some long forgotten truths. One day the politicians will also face reality without hysteria on GM.

37

TaffonTravel,

Edinburgh 21/07/2007 10:45:09

Macbeth - there is a lot of hysteria about GM and there are choices on GM being made. However, as organisations and unions become more powerful (as they were in the 50's and 60's) there could be no turning back. Do we need to give the power of our food to such companies? No. As you say - supermarkets are powerful enough, but we dont need the likes of Monsanto adding to the problem. not until they can provide a better product anyway.

38

nell from falkirk,

21/07/2007 10:58:00

#39 aka Chairman of Monsanto
The rest of the world is NOT "choosing" GM foods. The EU want no part of them. The US has "chosen" them, or rather its government has; and of course we know exactly who controls the US government.

China, that well-known bastion of democracy, has "chosen" GM foods too, but three guesses how far its citizens opinions were considered.

"Sterile seeds" - Monsanto have patented "Technology Protection System", otherwise known as "terminator technology", a genetic technique that causes the seeds of crops to become sterile after one or two years. Which means of course that growers can't save seed; which in turn means that they have to buy fresh seed every year from Monsanto. So Monsanto controls the production of those crops. Where's your "cutting the cost of food" gone ?

The major drawback in all this isn't the cost though - it's the reduction of the gene pool.
So a new virus/plant disease appears which attacks, let's say, tomatoes. (And make no mistake, new diseases and viruses appear all the time).

If the only plants around are those very few varieties offered by Monsanto, and it turns out those are not resistant to this new disease, then what?
Monsnato would answer that they would immediately produce yet another chemical to control it.
With, of course, unknown side effects and damage, and, of course, more profits to Monsanto.

A most unhealthy position. What you need is to keep alive as many varieties, especially older varieties, of each crop as possible. Then, should a new disease appear, the chances are that some of your many plant varieties WILL be resistant, so your crops are assured.

Anything else is madness.

Monsanto may not yet own the world, but it's certainly their final goal.
And only vigilance on the part of consumers, and making sure that our governments KNOW that we're not going to be

39

Guthrie,

21/07/2007 11:11:04

Short term solution- stop bioethanol production. Long term- bring back into production the set aside land.

I guarantee that despite the rising costs of milk, the farmers won't be seeing much of it.

40

TaffonTravel,

Edinburgh 21/07/2007 11:24:42

#41 are the media powerful enough to fool people? if so then a whole new can of worms is opened.

41

George VII,

21/07/2007 11:41:49

#37 helen words cant describe the contempt I feel for your post. Pathetic and get a life springs to mind though!

42

Organic peasant,

NE Scotland 21/07/2007 11:43:13

Set aside is over from next year, most is already in biofuels anyway, there is no extra land to bring in, the CAP was "sorted" years ago thats why we are in this mess. Poor journalism compounded by totally out of date comment.

43

TaffonTravel,

Edinburgh 21/07/2007 11:47:37

Sounds like Helen is a responsible consumer and doing her bit for the environment. if your idea of getting a life is living at the expense of others then go back to the 80's!

44

Carel,

Isle of Skye 21/07/2007 11:48:17

re7., have a look at 10. (and 41.).

I, and the writer of 7. think that in the long run our descendents will use plant foods etc that were genetically modified by altering genes in a lab. But, meantime, the main use of this technology is to create plants thart are immune to various herbicides. This allows the farmer to pile on the weed-killer. It harms the biosphere to do that, and it's a neat trick for the manufacturers of that particular weed-killer - they sell more of it. And then, as the writers of both 7. and 10. point out, genetic mutations happen anyway, each time the plants regenerate - and the direction of those changes depends on the evolutionary pressure. If the fields are soaked in a particular weed-killer then that's the evolutionary pressure - the weeds begin to genetically modify themselves to survive contact with that weed-killer. Then more of the weed-killer needs to be applied, or a new GM crop bred to deal with a new weed-killer.

It's the cycle we see with antibiotics - the germs genetically modify themselves to aquire resistance. Or in all the world's hosptals - using stuff that kills all known germs produces previously unknown germs.

So, GM technology may have a longterm future, but it's currently so much in the hands of cowboys that I'll just continue supporting the blanket ban.

45

nell from falkirk,

21/07/2007 11:48:43

#44 "are the media powerful enough to fool people?"

You have to accept that the media have a huge effect on public opinion; thankfully, though, most people don't accept as gospel something read in only one newspaper or on one TV programme.

Hopefully, most people will weigh up how much credence should be given to an article, bearing in mind the reputation for accuracy and impartiality of the newspaper or magazine or radio/TV programme.

Which of course makes it all the more galling to see a newspaper of the stature of the "Scotsman" running headlines of such glaring sensationalist
inaccuracy as that which heads this article.

46

George VII,

21/07/2007 11:50:26

So people who smoke aren't vegetarian and dont eat organic aren't doing their bit for the environment?. More generalisations from you then TaffonTravel!

47

nell from falkirk,

21/07/2007 11:55:41

#45 what an extraordinarily unpleasant and disproportionate post, in response to a reasonable statement of Helen's beliefs, which you're free not to subscribe to if you wish, but surely not to be so rude and unpleasant about.
And if you can't find the words to describe your feelings, then the best advice is to say nothing.

48

Firozali A.Mulla MBA PhD,

DarEsSalaam Tanzania 21/07/2007 12:02:41

Malthusian said we will have more mouths and less food. Darwin said we are apes. Bush says Yo Blaire and gives him a new seat, Blaire says I am leaving the church of Lord and I am now catholic. I am not interested in what the cow or the fish or the crow says. We need food get these. What are the scientist digging the on for? Water? If they find all of us we go there? GM was a turkey injected or the potato injected to make BIG and fluffy, seen the candy floss, well hat is it. To fill the stomach. Proteins or starch or vitamins came later. This is how science takes money from us and we "donate by buy on the Fat eating pills that do not work, or the Vitamins that say take one a day but see your doctor. We are nuts.
Why do we have to follow the IT in the manner the shell follow the snail. Why the politicians cannot give us food water and no guns no nukes no war. May be we will prove Darwin wrong.
I am amazed at the number.
Let me explain. What you are telling me is that I have gone fishing with three boats that sank. Now your question is “How many fishes did I catch”?
You see the number of the CFO is not the question or the number of companies that have had the CFO fleece their sum.
Let us grow and state that the investors have lost millions.
It may be the few CFO. But what have we done? SEC is a bloodhound chasing all everywhere. The corporation auditors have had their names tinted in black.
And sir, The Love market, The Finance market and the war battleground is all hush. Mo one will tell you the truth.
If the hotel loses the customers the papers will be hushed so the name does not go out to the public. The killing of the soldiers demoralizes if the true number of the dead are spit up and the love is scandalous. It may break the house of some decent person.
The CFO number may be small but the damage it has done is .. IT BROUGHT AMERICAN accounting frauds in forefront. I thought Americans traded better. The Enro

49

John M. Slusser II,

Nantwich England 21/07/2007 12:05:25

You can fash all you like over the minutia - but the bottom line comes to one word: control. Our government, which by the way operates like every other government in the world - the rich rule - thrives on control. This GM food codswallop is just another facet of how they will, not may, exert that control. The farmers who may or may not be buying into this twaddle are duped by the promise of "filthy lucre" or their "30 pieces of silver". I do not for one moment believe all the codswallop about how we are destroying our climate - the earth has being doing as it pleases with or without we puny humans - and as others have pointed out, there have been many periods in recorded history (makes one wonder how many times it has actually happened BEFORE we began recording it) of really foul weather. Like everything, it all goes in cycles, but this business of "oh we really MUST switch to GM foods because we can't afford the other kind" is pure swine rubbish. Like I said - put it down to one word and one word only - control: our government has it and we don't - end of story.

50

Firozali A.Mulla MBA PhD,

DarEsSalaam Tanzania 21/07/2007 12:06:32

.
These are the countries that are actively engaged in the battle offensively if I may add. Britain, America. NATO that holds all the power says "we have had enough", tell me what will Mr. Brown who just got the new seat do or Mr. Bush who is building wire fences around the boundaries do?
I sat sadly. No one wants to be there. They are just there. Not out of choice but ego.

I thank you
Firozali A.Mulla MBA PhD
P.O.Box 6044
Dar-Es-Salaam
Tanzania
East Africa

51

James F,

Glasgow 21/07/2007 12:08:20

Helen (837) is quite right. The solution is simple.

Stop eating animals (which waste 90% of the food we give them) and go seriously vegetarian; the benefits are plenty:
* we get less cancer and fewer hearts attacks,
* we get a better, more efficient return from the land,
* we reduce our production of greenhouse gases (especially methane) by 20%, (see also this week's New Scientist which points out that the energy needed to produce 1 kg of meat is the same to drive 250km in a car http://environment.newscientist.com/article/mg19526134.50... ),
* we don't kill animals needlessly or subject them to pointless intensive farming practices.

Sounds like a good deal to me.

52

George VII,

21/07/2007 12:15:55

#51 quote 'And if you can't find the words to describe your feelings, then the best advice is to say nothing.'

Words did spring to mind and i'll stick by them thank you very much, I'm entitled to my opinion just as Helen is entitled to state that if people didn't smoke they would be able to afford to eat healthier, I find that a massive generalisation and insulting just the same.

53

TaffonTravel,

Edinburgh 21/07/2007 12:16:07

#50 I think the point being made is that people priorities are wrong. to be specific smoking has nothing to do with the argument, but that people choose luxuries (some harmful) over sustainable lifestyles. This might be choice, or human nature, but the overall result is the same. If I decide to go to McD's instead of the farmers market, I AM contributing to the problem and not the solution. But this isnt easy and I myself am not perfect, but people put up with worse in war time and the threat IS just as bad if not worse.

54

George VII,

21/07/2007 12:21:32

Taffon Travel I have agreed with all your posts thus far and understand and agree with the points you are making.

55

GD,

Glasgow 21/07/2007 12:24:11

Árpád Pusztai, considered by many to be the leading expert on GM foods, was silenced with threats of a lawsuit after he unexpectedly discovered that rats fed an experimental GM food developed immune system damage and other serious health problems in just ten days. Pusztai later reviewed an industry-sponsored study and found that seven of forty rats fed a GM crop died within two weeks; others developed stomach lesions. The crop was approved without further tests.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_trade_of_genet...

56

Carel,

Isle of Skye 21/07/2007 12:35:46

re comment 53. This in reply to the aside about not believing we are wrecking the climate. Particularly the comment "maked you wonder how many times this has happened before we started recording it".

There are ways of knowing what climate changes happened before our records began. They are ingious, often very certain, and easy to find out about if you are interested. Because there are many such methods they can be crosschecked against each other.

The climate scientists didn't get a confidential memo from the government telling them to cook up a story to help fool the citzenry. They acted off their own bat, looking into what has happened at 10000, years ago, 100000, a million, several million, and comparing it to the predictions of the people studying the current changes in the composition of the atmosphere, etc.

It wasn't goverments who thought up a false idea of climate change - it was climate scientists who discovered what was happening, and what would follow, with ever greater degrees of certainty. This is based on an immense amount of scientific work of a huge range of kinds. Governments, especially the US government, did what they could to stop the truth getting out; but the truth is so clear even goverments are having to accept it.

57

TaffonTravel,

Edinburgh 21/07/2007 12:44:54

Thanks George VII. Currently trying to do my MSc dissertation on agriculture and the environment but peoples opinions are more interesting.
#53 human afflicted climate change skepticism is so Neville Chamberlin. Science is all there, evidence all around us, and nobodys interests from agreeing with it.

58

Aoda,

Pennsylvania Wilds 21/07/2007 12:48:43

Venango, hi neighbor.

If you have a product, there has to be a need in order to sell it. If there isn't one then creat one even if you use scare tactics.

I purchase organic food from a local farmer and it is a lot better than chemical laden food that one gets in the stores. I like fresh fruit but don't buy it too often because it stinks. When I do break down and get some half of it goes into my compost pile simply because it rots fast, or it never ripened and don't like to bite into a peach that is not juicy.

As for feeding the poor. Under NAFTA we flooded Mexico with cheap corn. Probably put a lot of Mexican farmers out of business. Then because of "globial warming" a lot of corn is being used for ethanol. Result is that there is less corn availavle for the poor and average Mexican. What there is available is too expensive for them to purchase.

59

Not A Unionist or Nationalist,

Dundee 21/07/2007 12:58:59

Firozali - are you for real?

60

Pilrig,

Livingston 21/07/2007 12:58:59

How to ensure you don't end up with GM food - get elected at the next UK election and eat all your meals in the Parliament's canteen and restaurant

61

tomfrom66,

Blackpool UK 21/07/2007 13:18:18

I've looked in vain through these comments for the name of Canadian farmer Percy Shmeiser.

This guy was taken to court by Monsanto for the 'crime' of growing one of it's crops without a licence. In fact his fields had been 'contaminated' by nearby GM farms. It seems the court upheld the idea that it was the job of farmers like Percy Shmeiser to stop the contamination, not Mansanto's to prevent it.

The issue here is that transnationals, like Monsanto, are given 'carte blanche' by the non-democratic World Trade Organisation to act solely in the interests of its shareholders, and it is the job of national governments to facilitate this requirement.

The need to democratise the IMF, the World Bank and WTO should be of paramount importance.

62

steve's here,

no GM food 21/07/2007 13:35:17

I wonder what the CEO's of these GM / Agribusinesses eat? What do they feed their children? They can afford the "good stuff". Spot on #64, When they can prove with thousands of years of research GM foods are safe then i'll buy it, till then this is one ban i can support.

63

ArtDowns,

Wild Qual DE USA 21/07/2007 13:45:51

The spirit of Ned Ludd lives on in some technophobic quarters.

Pseudoscientific fear-mongering will always get some ink.

64

Stephen Tvedten,

USA 21/07/2007 13:45:56

Scientists Estimate That Pesticides are Reducing Crop Yields by ONE-THIRD Through Impaired Nitrogen Fixation - July 2007

http://www.organic-center.org/science.hot.php?action=view...

Over the last forty years nitrogen fertilizer use has increased seven-fold and nearly every acre of intensively farmed, conventional cropland is treated with pesticides. A team of scientists explored the impact of pesticides and other environmental toxicants on symbiotic nitrogen fixation (SNF) brought about by Rhizobium bacteria (Fox et al., 2007). Their findings were published June 12, 2007 in the prestigious Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences. http://www.pnas.org/cgi/content/abstract/104/24/10282

The team describes the critical role played by SNF in supporting crop yields and environmental quality. SNF has great potential to reduce farm production costs – a factor of growing importance as rising natural gas prices push upward the cost of nitrogen fertilizers. In Brazil, SNF from soybeans reduces production costs an estimated $1.3 billion per year. The research by Fox et al. (2007) explored in depth the signaling processes between plants and bacteria colonizing plant roots – processes that govern the degree of SNF and the production of certain phytochemicals. They focused on the ways that pesticides can disrupt signaling and impair the efficiency of SNF. Some 30 pesticides are known to disrupt SNF; the most widely used pesticide in the United States, glyphosate (Roundup) is known to be toxic to nitrogen fixing bacteria.

The "Conclusions" section of the paper begins by stating: "The results of this study demonstrate that one of the environmental impacts of pesticides and contaminants in the soil environment is disruption of chemical signaling be

65

nell from falkirk,

21/07/2007 13:45:56

#60 Gordon - your ability to distort is breathtaking.

The article quoted in #55 is called "Meat is murder on the environment", quite a different premise from "Meat is murder".

It's in the "New Scientist", and its quotes on the subject are drawn from the conclusions of a study by Akifumi Ogino of the National Institute of Livestock and Grassland Science in Tsukuba, Japan, and colleagues.
Since "New Scientist" is a reputable publication, and the "National Institute of Livestock and Grassland Science" is a reputable organisation, I don't see any reason why anybody posting a link to it shouldn't be taken seriously.

66

Stephen Tvedten,

USA 21/07/2007 13:47:31

How to kill pests without killing yourself or the earth......

There are about 50 to 60 million insect species on earth - we have named only about 1 million and there are only about 1 thousand pest species - already over 50% of these thousand pests are already resistant to our volatile, dangerous, synthetic pesticide POISONS. We accidentally lose about 25,000 to 100,000 species of insects, plants and animals every year due to "man's footprint". But, after poisoning the entire world and contaminating every living thing for over 60 years with these dangerous and ineffective pesticide POISONS we have not even controlled much less eliminated even one pest species and every year we use/misuse more and more pesticide POISONS to try to "keep up"! Even with all of this expensive pollution - we lose more and more crops and lives to these thousand pests every year.

We are losing the war against these thousand pests mainly because we insist on using only synthetic pesticide POISONS and fertilizers There has been a severe "knowledge drought" - a worldwide decline in agricultural R&D, especially in production research and safe, more effective pest control since the advent of synthetic pesticide POISONS and fertilizers. Today we are like lemmings running to the sea insisting that is the "right way". The greatest challenge facing humanity this century is the necessity for us to double our global food production with less land, less water, less nutrients, less science, frequent droughts, more and more contamination and ever-increasing pest damage.

National Poison Prevention Week, March 18-24,2007 was created to highlight the dangers of poisoning and how to prevent it. One study shows that about 70,000 children in the USA were involved in common household pesticide-related (acute) poisonings or exposures in 2004. It is estimated that 300,000 farm workers suffer acute pesticide poisoning each year in the United States

67

Pa broon,

Edinburgh 21/07/2007 13:49:24

Here we go again, another cracking story. Food prices are on the rise "Although unnoticed by many shoppers, food prices are rising faster in Britain than almost anywhere else in the Western world. Bread, for example, is up 15 per cent and milk up 10 per cent" somethings not right and its nothing to do with the weather. Interestingly while petrol goes up in the UK the price was going down in the US during June,despite the onset of the summer driving season. We all buy in dollars so why are our pump prices in the UK going up. Food up, Petrol up, faster than anywhere else. Why? other than manipulation and profiteering.

68

Wally,

By The Rivers Of Babylon (USA) 21/07/2007 13:54:47

Swilly Tisher in #20 says that Americans are fat and that if they can eat the GM food, then everyone can. For decades the Americans have been ahead of the rest of the world in eating this GM food and the highly processed food too. And that is one of the reasons why Americans are by comparison more fat. We should get back to healthy food and eat things that grow from the ground and are natural, not the GM food. It is a horrible trend that the old-time small farms that produced good food are being destroyed. and that big corporations are taking over food production.

The scientists who work for the big corporations will tell you that there's nothing wrong with the food. But independent and honest scientists will tell you different.

I read of a study in Argentina where cows were given the choice of feed made from GM grain and feed made from normal grain. The cows ate 100% of the normal food and left the GM food alone until they were very hungry and then finally ate the GM food. I read of another study in Canada where mice were given corn syrup made of GM corn and another group of mice given corn syrup made of normal corn. The mice that got the GM food had half their babies die. The mice that got the normal food had only 7% of their babies die.

Not only that the GM food has an effect on other plants. It is in reality destroying the earth. And there is a a real possibility with some evidence that the bee problems in North America are caused by GM food.

69

Helen,

21/07/2007 14:09:13

George VII, if people didn't smoke they'd have on average £20-£30 per week which could be spent on other things like good quality, healthy, organic food. And by the way I have a fabulous life....good job, excellent qualifications, done a half-marathon this year and planning to do another couple before the year is out.

70

The Strategist,

21/07/2007 14:15:50

#72 ...

Actually Pa Broon you're right...Because of the convergence between supply and demand for the first time the price of oil is in the hands of the producers not the consumers.

71

Ken S.,

England 21/07/2007 15:03:54

13. Rulesbutnotrulers
"..Bread, beer, cheese, wine, honey, milk, meat and arable crops are ALL the product of fiddling with genes...".

More a question of selective breeding, blending and fortuitous accidents than genetic modification in the current sense.

72

GM? no thanks!,

england 21/07/2007 15:52:47

swilly tisher 20, sorry but you are completely wrong about the Americans, the reason they don't object is that they simply don't know what they are eating. the FDA colluded with Monsanto et al to get GM approved as a "substantial equivalent" product, which means it is not mentioned in product labelling in the US. neither is it subject to testing! the American farmers were sold a new crop that was "round up ready" GM was not mentioned until the farmers asked "what's all this fuss in Europe about this GM, what is it anyway" and they replied, "you bin growing it for three years". Now the WTO is calling the European insistence on labelling a "non tariff trade barrier" and trying to stop us being able to choose either! There is no advantage in GM whatsoever except that it ties the farmer to buy new seed corn and full price agrochemicals every year, thus making huge profits for the agrochem giants.. He is not allowed to save some of last years crop for this years seed, in effect, he becomes an employee of what are laughably called Agbio companies. They are actually herbicide/pesticide manufacturers. The real EVIL here is that the EEC has just capitulated and agreed to a contamination level of 0.9%GM which means we can no longer get real ORGANIC any more, because GM pollen can drift up to 6KM, and if you put a 6Km exclusion zone round every organic farm, there will be no room left to grow GM anywhere in the uk. What we will get is organic+ up to 0.9% GM. Can you think of any other circumstances under which an entirely useless technology is allowed to pollute our food so that these multinationals can make even more money! The actual truth is a statement from the American Centre for Disease Control, which said in a report
" Since the widespread introduction of GM products into the American food chain we have seen the incidence of food related illness rise by 40%" Given that and the fact that almost every co

73

Cynicus,

Fife 21/07/2007 16:17:59

This new big 'GM surge' from the same blinkered twisters who tried last time - is even less likely to convince. Tony's Gm 'Debate' didn't go quite the way he intended. Some democracy crept in.

GM techique - 30 years old, put back in the cupboard initially - because they knew it was dodgy. Dragged out by big agribiotech because they saw it as the way to get their padlock on the world's food supply through associated rigid patent control.

Their long dismissal of major parts of the genome as "junk" is now proved as seriously wrong. It's role is critical and their clumsy gm insertions are fundamentally disruptive - and hazardous. Their hooky viral/bacterial fabrications have been shown to do the things they claimed they did n't - such as survival into the human gut and passing into the blood stream and body.

Many animals have led much shortened lives, or quickly died from eating gm material - clearly wholesome.

Contrived approval processes by collaborative governments giving an illusion of safety.

Mickeyed and dire animal test feeding results by the patent holder, but the 'guardians' rubber stamp them through.

Keep track on the world media coverage and see the industry / academic biotech game with their government partners.
Check out the main players at - gmwatch.org

74

TeresaBinstock,

Colorado 21/07/2007 16:32:11

GMO-based income-transfer unto families that own Monsanto, Syngenta, Cargill, and similar monstrosities needs be curtailed. Returning to organic foods produced by local farmers will be more healthful, will use less oil and will enable food production to be rewarded unto consumers' neighbors.

75

Eve,

Scotland 21/07/2007 17:23:30

I'm wee bit sceptic about GM Food, it's going in to the unknown.

It's no natural, to have a wee bit of another plant in a tomato or rice.

I'm sure know one is going to develop Killer Tomatoes.

Though there is the contamination problems when growing and there is the unknown, which is quite right to be warry of as of our experence with: Feed cattle cow and other animal bits gaive us vCJD.

***********************************************************
*It's worth remembering:*
Science advance because it can not because their is a need for it!!!!!
***********************************************************

76

Charles Linskaill,

Edinburgh UK 21/07/2007 17:24:40

GM Foods just taste BOGGING! even if they were cheaper I still wouldn't buy them!

77

Eve,

Scotland 21/07/2007 17:26:34

#83. Methalions: That's no how you clone water!!!!

You can clone water molecules by getting a glass of water (not full) and cover it with Cling film. Leave for about an hour or so and then watch wee droplets of water form. Pure magic!!!!

78

Eve,

Scotland 21/07/2007 17:28:48

The EU promised us we'd have a choice between GM or NON-GM foods it's only right that this should continue!!!!!

The labeling of GM food is important and should NOT be realised. We should be able to avoid them NOT matter how much money we've got!!!

79

Not A Unionist or Nationalist,

Dundee 21/07/2007 17:41:22

The real issue is that GM foods need to be independently tested and licensed as medicines are.

80

Charles Linskaill,

Edinburgh UK 21/07/2007 17:53:15

#88 Ive tested them! they are still "BOGGING"
END OFF!
That's why no-one wants to eat em.

81

The Fly Fifer,

fife 21/07/2007 18:08:13

done deal waste of time complaining if you eat food today you are already eating GM food ........ you have NO control sorry but fact

82

Suck-McCrunchie,

Doomster Hill 21/07/2007 18:13:32

"Families Broomhouse face stark choice ... pay more for food or shoplift."

83

Wally,

By The Rivers Of Babylon (USA) 21/07/2007 18:57:03

http://www.organicconsumers.org/

Organic Consumers Association

84

nell from falkirk,

21/07/2007 19:07:56

#79 Reading Public - I actually agree with what you saying! Is this a first!!?!!

85

steve green,

preston 21/07/2007 20:17:42

so called experts/scientists now hold opinions hardly,if ever, worth listening to.
even our own country has so much 'set aside' land doing nothing that we could radically increase our food production without the need for 'expertly' approved gm foods, there are many countries in this position and many farmers who would appreciate the opportunity to keep their children in the business and improve their income.

86

Jock Tamson,

Scotland, Caledonia, Alba 21/07/2007 20:44:15

I seem to recall an article in this very mighty tome (before online comments were available) which reported on the reaction from Africa to GM grain.

At the time it was being hailed as a saviour for Africa as it was pestilent resistent amd cheap. The Africans pointed out that the seed was effectively barren, would only yield one crop and had to be repurchased every year.

So, have they been sitting back since then waiting to rebrand the stuff under fear?

87

Schizobeck,

Bessemer, ALABAMA, USA 21/07/2007 20:50:38

In nearly every dilemma facing mankind, there are hundreds and thousands of choices. Remarkably, universally, "the media" continues to comprehend only two of any choice for any given problem. Smart readers can ascertain that there is at least 1 other solution --

1. Pay higher prices.
2. Buy genetically modified foods.
3. Start their own family vegetable garden or farm -- CHEAPER AND NOT GENETICALLY MODIFIED.

There! That's THREE choices. Can we assume that there are probably HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS OF OTHER CHOICES ON THIS MATTER? Smart readers may find them, but don't count on the media so much for that. =)

88

connaughtboy,

21/07/2007 21:04:52

The choice is easy. Pay more for non-GM food!

89

Jock Tamson,

Scotland, Caledonia, Alba 21/07/2007 21:18:32

connaughtboy, 97.

I would recommend that the choice is easy - do not buy GM food.

Then we'll see what they come up with next.

90

Jock Tamson,

Scotland, Caledonia, Alba 21/07/2007 21:23:30

Is the pressure really coming from the supermarkets? They must be about at breaking point in their store wars.

We've already seen some give up price wars and turn to Fair Trade as a way of justifying higher prices.

I don't believe these t****. My philosify, right or wrong, is that prices are going to rise anyway, then we can do without GM.

91

Jock Tamson,

Scotland, Caledonia, Alba 21/07/2007 21:23:51

?

92

Catharine,

Winnipeg, Canada 21/07/2007 21:33:03

GM products have quietly taken over the fields of north america for years. Here in Canada there is no such thing as gmo-free corn or canola (oil-seed rape to you) because no one had the guts to stop the Monsantos, Syngentas, Cargills, etc. The science has proven a decline in beneficial insects, while also showing an increase in resistant weeds. To call ths junk science or to compare the splicing of nonplant material to plants with cross pollenating is ridiculous. Blaming the rise in food costs on people who don't want even more chemicals in their bodies is stupid - blame the greedy corporations who refuse to pay farmers for their products - didn't Tesco LOWER the amount being paid to farmers? Organic farming may take more room, but it doesn't poison the earth so nothing else grows in it for years. Stick to your guns and refuse to put more money in Monsanto, Syngenta, Cargill pockets, because they are the only real beneficiaries of this short-sighted policy.

93

Wally,

By The Rivers Of Babylon (USA) 21/07/2007 21:44:06

in the US a large part of the food chain we consume (& export) is heavily subsidized. Many farmers get 50% of their revenue or more from the US government. But the part of our agriculture industry that is so heavily subidized is the unhealthy part. It is the grain farmer & the meat producers that use all that GM grain & hormones & anti-biotics. The healthy vegetables and organic food is not subsidized at all.

94

Mark, Las Cruces,

in the Land of Entrapment 21/07/2007 21:58:36

There is no need for GM, you can breed crops traditionally or use genetic sequencing to identify traits of use then breed them, so-called Marker Aided Selection. The GM industry is just trying to raise a hue and cry to blackmail everyone into believing mass starvation is around the corner in order to recoup their very high investment. They have no interest in trying to protect us against mass starvation just their own profits. Reports are coming out that organic farming can be as productive as commercial, and more healthy.
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2007/07/070716134018...
for just one example.

95

Iain MacKinnon,

Rosewell 21/07/2007 22:27:11

This is an amazing thread in that so much indepth research has been done by the contributors to it - much more, it would seem, than has been done by the professionals who wrote the original piece.

Given some of the allegations that have been made against the Scotsman in this thread I think it is time for the journalists involved to let us know where this story came from. Before we look at the quality of the argument in the piece, it is necessary for us to look at its objectivity.

There does seem to be an imbalance in the sources cited. There are three supporters of GM food quoted directly in the piece. The opponents of the industry are represented only by the Scottish Executive.

The journalists involved in writing this piece, Tanya Thompson, Alastair Jamieson and Lyndsay Moss need to tell us readers where this story originated - who suggested it to them and on whose decision did they take the angle that they chose to take?

The debate on GM foods is hotly contested. The Scotsman, if the overwhelming majority of comments to this thread are to be believed, has seriously let down its readers. It stands accused by some of corporate propaganda, a hugely damaging claim against a national newspaper. Answers are needed.

96

Ed Elliott,

aberdeenshire 21/07/2007 22:33:26

This article has MONSANTO Pr written all over it!
Eddy

97

Charles Linskaill,

Edinburgh UK 21/07/2007 22:37:07

A pointless discussion unless your a kinda "trainspotter type"
Cost more money, who likes this food?, tastes crappy, that's the end of that!
Are these scientists Sooooo thick they cant see that?
Its NOT the price, Its just NOT nice!
People would rather eat the sh*t they know rather than your sh*t we dont know or like!

98

connaughtboy,

21/07/2007 22:44:10

#98 Jock - yep!

99

the fat knackered Aussie chef who only body surfs,

dicky beach australia 21/07/2007 23:00:45

So how much did Monsanto pay the Scotsman to run this "article"?

100

Victoria Smith,

PA - USA 21/07/2007 23:13:09

Well, you're right...they did jam the GM crops down our throats here in the U.S without us knowing exactly what on our grocery shelves has been tampered with!

I really wish they would have come up with some sort of labeling requirement before they let this loose.

I know the GM Corn in Iowa kills Monarch butterflies, so who knows the real extent of the damage that it may have caused.

How many strange illnesses do people have now a days which doctors have no idea what it is, .and could it ultimately be related to GM crops? Just a question. Also people seem to be more allergy prone than I remember when I was younger, are these things related?

I have probably been eating them for years, unwittingly, although I try to eat healthier than most people I know.

101

MichScot,

USA 22/07/2007 03:35:56

Perhaps the Americans are fat PARTIALLY due to GM foods. Wish I could go back to the real stuff and do so if it's in my price range. It's better for you. It also has a designer label--God.
I always say that God knows more about good nutrition for our bodies because He created both.

102

MichScot,

USA 22/07/2007 03:42:44

#109
I agree with you whole-heartedly. My children and I have these problems. And one also needs to consider pollution, dyes and additives in foods, and the poisons and hormones used for higher yield,etc. I do most of my cooking "from scratch" and wonder how much worse things would be if I didn't. Not to mention all the plowing to the edge of the road, which reduces habitat and, therefore, beneficial insects and so on--the ones not killed off by the poisons.

103

MichScot,

USA 22/07/2007 03:53:18

#84
Agreed!
#79
That's right.
Cows,bees;humans next?
And they think we are too stupid to realize it! That's insulting, isn't it?!?

104

nell from falkirk,

22/07/2007 05:54:02

#104 Iain - a really good post, and a fair point.

Come on then "Scotsman", the gauntlet has been thrown down - how about a response please?

105

Mofo-ya,

New York 22/07/2007 08:06:07

I'm sure I read another article in the scotsman a few weeks ago, where the UK government was planning to impose a vegetarian diet on everyone. That would kind of sort your problem regarding high food cost out over night. Or was that just more quality bullsiht journalism from the scotsman.

106

von-Scharnhorst,

Brandenburg Preußen (ex Bathgate) 22/07/2007 08:19:42

Firozali A.Mulla MBA PhD, DarEsSalaam Tanzania, what the F*K are you pratteling on about?

107

nell from falkirk,

22/07/2007 11:45:43

#116 Conan - sounds like you've already been at the GM food; not to mention the GM marijuana, washed down with a couple of litres of "Roundup".

108

DesertRatNM,

NM USA 22/07/2007 17:27:02

I don't care about food prices in the UK or the US, but Europeans have got to get over their irrational fear of GM foods and the negative impact that fear has had on third-world countries. Your attitude has starved more people than GM foods or pesticides could possibly kill.

We have been eating GM foods for years and no third eyes or thalidomide flippers.

I was born at the end of WW II with a world population of about 2 billion and half went to bed hungrey everynight. Now, with a world population between 6 and 8 billion, the only reason anyone goes to bed hungrey is because of politics. Since at least the early '80s for the first time in human history we have had the resources to feed everyone on the planet; a remarkable achievement. Yet, poor scientific education and political agendas still starve many.

109

Child In Time,

22/07/2007 19:09:21

119

Perhaps, but the reason that the population exploded had a lot to do with the invention of getting nitrogen out of oil. (A jewish scientist in germany who went on to create the gas that killed his fellow believers). It was now possible to produce more crops (i-e- "corn" in the US). The subsidies the farmers still get and the fact the prices are held down by US government policy create an excess of food...leading to fat humans, not to mention the horrific conditions for cattle who are now forced to eat stuff they would walk past given the choice.

Anyway, I digress; nature has a way of keeping different species apart to as to create multiculture. If one type of potato dies out in a season, others will survive etc. GM breaks that condition. GM leads to yet more monoculture which requires more pesticides and fertilizers. It has been calculated that for every McD's burger you eat 4litres of oil was required, not including transport. (you don't believe? Look at the oil consumption in the US food industry).

Also, an aspect of GM is that companies like Monsanto (did they do Agent Orange or was it Napalm? I always forget) can now breed hybrid crops. So, take corn; plant the seed, grow the crop, keep back some seed for next season and....it won't grow. You must buy more grain.

Now add in globalisation, farmers in Africa are being encouraged to buy GM seed that produces sterile seed.

Stop subsidising food, stop spraying oil based fertilisers, let seeds be seeds, don't mix a natural bacteria with a pototo to create a root more efficient for McD's and the world population will reduce.

That and get the catholics to stop this bull about condoms and the pill and abortion.

GM food technology breaks a fundamental natural system and is designed not to feed the world but to create huge profits at the expence of nature itself. Plants become 'property' of the few.

We are still discovering the negative effects of DDT use

110

Kramek,

Buffalo NY 22/07/2007 21:21:48

I'll vote for GM crops such as cotton. But not my food. Over here GM companies don't want you to know it's GM. Why not? Aren't they proud of their creation? Maybe GM is why I have had a major increase in food related allergies. Maybe not? I can't tell because the food isn't labeled and I can't make an educated assessment.

111

Listen Ear,

22/07/2007 22:40:39

Where have all the sparrows gone?

Pesticides?
Mobile Masts?
Tescos Bird Food?

What damage will GM crops do to our ecology?

I don't want any GM Crops.


 

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