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Glenrothes by-election: Brown hails Labour success

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Labour celebrate their win at Glenrothes
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Published Date: 07 November 2008
GORDON Brown hailed Labour's victory in today's Glenrothes by-election as a vote of confidence for the Government's response to the economic downturn.
Speaking to reporters in Downing Street, the Prime Minister said: "What I have learned from this by-election is that people are prepared to support Governments that will help people through the downturn and offer real help to people.

"They are less willing to support people who have no idea about how to solve the problems we have got."

Mr Brown also restated his call for banks to pass on yesterday's interest rate cut to customers and insisted that monetary policy would be supported by fiscal policy.

The Glenrothes result was hailed as a "strong personal endorsement" for Mr Brown, who broke with recent convention and campaigned twice in the seat, which neighbours his own.

Labour candidate Lindsay Roy comfortably held Glenrothes with a majority of 6,737 over Scottish National Party candidate Peter Grant.

Scots Secretary Jim Murphy hailed the by-election as a "remarkable result" for his party.

Speaking on BBC Radio Scotland's Good Morning Scotland he said: "It's the first time since the 1970s that Labour in a seat that it's held has actually increased its share of the vote in a by-election. So it's an historic night in that sense."

And he said: "The main reason would be that we had a Prime Minister who personally campaigned in the constituency, there's a great appreciation for the work that Gordon is doing and will continue to do.

"There's also a demand by the voters to see which of the parties has an answer to the big questions. The Labour Party under Gordon's leadership has answers to these big and difficult economic questions."

The Scottish Secretary continued: "The fact remains the SNP predicted, boasted, they would win this by-election.

"In fact Labour has increased its share of the vote and increased its number of votes from the last general election.

"The fact is it's a remarkable victory for Labour. It's the best victory we've had in Scotland since the 1970s in terms of the statistics and its a very strong personal endorsement of Gordon Brown at a time of unprecedented economic difficulties facing the whole world."

He added: "When we lost the Glasgow East by-election I was honest enough to say it was a dreadful result, but yesterday is a remarkable result and the SNP should have the honesty to acknowledge that this morning."

Nicola Sturgeon, the SNP deputy leader, said: "While we're disappointed not to have won this election we increased out vote by 13% on the last election.

"So it's disappointing but by no stretch of the imagination can it be seen as a reverse for the SNP.

"There are upsides in this, the vote of the SNP went up by 13% from the last general election, we secured a 5% swing and we slashed Labour's majority.

"I won't pretend not to be deeply disappointed, I want to win every election we contest. But we did make progress last night."

MORE GLENROTHES BY-ELECTION COVERAGE:

Big Glenrothes by-election win for Labour rocks Nationalists

Analysis: PM slams the brakes on Salmond's momentum

In pictures: Scenes from the Fife Institute in Glenrothes

Gerri Peev's by-election blog

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1

Thomas Aikenhead,

Edinburgh 07/11/2008 10:07:09
Playing with statistics will fool nobody. Increasing the share of the vote is incidental, seeing a reduction in the majority is something else.

Previous Labour majority was 10, 664 NOW only 6, 737 yet this is a "remarkable result" claimed the Labour Party!

The voters in Scotland are not fools, they know when they see a party in retreat!
2

Lianachan,

Highlands 07/11/2008 10:08:10
A remarkable result? Hanging on to a seat that had enjoyed a huge 10,000 majority is hardly remarkable.
3

Viva Victoria ,

07/11/2008 10:19:59
All that boasting by the cyber-nats and the SNP are still the losers they've always been.

All that boasting by Alex Salmond and he is still the loser he's always been.

All that Labour majority from the losers that vote them in and Scotland is the biggest loser.

SNP/Labour losers everywhere, why o' why it has to be this way, I don't know?

Will any of those abusive SNP cyber-nats apologise for their bravado, offensiveness and aggression?
4

The Federalist (the poster formerly know as NAUON),

07/11/2008 10:20:56
think most of us got it wrong - even those who thought it might be close. Labour increased their share by 3% and comfortably held on despite the SNP throwing everything including the kitchen sink at Labour. For the SNP it is not a disaster but it should give them pause for thought.

The reasons why they did not make the big break-through are complex but I'll try to give my thoughts on why they lost.

The SNP still try to fight elections as the opposition and, as we saw here, that is no longer the case in Scotland. The consequence of at least one policy contributed to their downfall here. The council tax freeze may be nationally a popular move but at a local level councils are finding it hard to implement. It was easy for Labour to attack the local Lib Dem/SNP coalition for charges for local services - charges I believe are a direct result of freezing the Council Tax. If they want to avoid this issue happening again then serious consideration is going to have to be given to the block grant levels that councils receive. That in itself may have implications for funding other Scottish Government priorities. Something will have to give - and it will not be the Council Tax freeze. I would expect some other SNP policy to be delayed or even abandoned altogether to keep their flagship policy intact.

Another issue is undoubtedly was independence. I have been derided here for pointing out that Labour would try to use the global financial crisis and events in countries such as Iceland for their own political benefit. Whether events in Iceland (or Hungary, Ukraine etc) have a direct correlation to Scottish independence is irrelevant (I personally don't think they do). The perception is that they do and the SNP have only themselves to blame. Salmond set himself up for a fall with his Arc of Prosperity speech. The SNP need to start making the case for Scottish independence purely in Scottish terms not on what another country has done.

(to be continued)
5

The Federalist (the poster formerly know as NAUON),

07/11/2008 10:21:11
(continued)

That brings us to the third area - oil. The last month or so has shown that economies who rely heavily on a particular natural resource suffer due to fluctuating commodity prices. Here in Scotland some are beginning to realise the fallacy of SNP economic policy that is built on the price of oil. The SNP were fine when oil prices were at a high level but now at the low price levels we have now their argument has been undermined. The SNP need to take oil out of the argument and make the case that economic independence is possible whether or not we have oil. That means they really do need to make a reassessment of their policies for a post-independence Scotland.

The truth is that if the SNP are going to win an independence referendum they have a long way to go to convince the agnostics in the electorate. They need to make a much more subtle case that the one they have made thus far.
6

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07/11/2008 10:22:02
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7

Yeah1,

07/11/2008 10:25:46
#1, #2

Well actually it is a pretty remarkable result considering labour were virtually dead and buried just a few weeks ago.

They were behind in the polls and with the bookies, they were very unpopular, and the SNP won virtually the same seat in the 2007 Scottish election.

Just yesterday even labour activists were thinking the SNP would win by 1,500, and yet labour managed to retain the seat with a comfortable majority and actually increased their share of the vote.

Personally I would call that a remarkable achievement.
8

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07/11/2008 10:27:13
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9

Ghengis McCann,

Edinburgh 07/11/2008 10:27:47
#1 and 2 - your spinning will fool nobody. The fact is that the Gnats' bandwagon has been brutally derailed. In the current political climate, where the Gnats have been sweeping all before them, Labour just scraping home by a few hundred votes would have been a good result. To hold the seat comfortably with a 7,000 majority is a remarkable result by any standard.

King Smug was boasting right up to Wednesday evening that he was confident of another Glasgow Central. Instead the Gnats were gubbed. No amount of spinning by Salmond or wee Nicola can change that self-evident truth.

The absence of the usual smug, arrogant Braveheart apologists on here this morning tells its own story. Face it, lads and lasses - your boy took one hell of a beating.
10

Son of one of Stirlings finest,

Weston S Mare 07/11/2008 10:28:01
Remarkable how few comments this morning, it must fall to me to say well done the Union, well done Scotland, and sorry Alex, perhaps you can get a job as a lard salesman.
11

Cramondo,

Edinburgh 07/11/2008 10:30:46
#1 It's not playing with statistics to point out that they increased their share of the vote.

For any government, in this phase of the electoral cycle, under the current economic circumstances, and facing superlative opposition (Dynamic Dave and Smug Alex), to increase its share of the vote, is a remarkable outcome, and one that (I think) no pundit predicted.
12

Skip McClendon,

07/11/2008 10:32:42
"Yes we Can" brags Salmond, taking the result for granted in an act of supreme hubris.

"No you can't", scream the electorate, annoyed at being mistaken for mugs.

The honeymoon is most definitely over for Salmond and the SNP, no matter what the hyper-nat bloggers will claim.
13

Yeah1,

07/11/2008 10:33:20
#9

"King Smug was boasting right up to Wednesday evening that he was confident of another Glasgow Central."

Yes he actually said quite categorically 'we will win' - perhaps he should make a public retraction and apologise for lying.
14

Cragdoo,

St Andrews 07/11/2008 10:34:14
C'mon people let's get to the heart of the truth ,did not come from Labour voters/supportes , the majority of Labours votes came from tactical voting from Conservatives/LibDems who knew they were out of the race long ago.
15

Nevsky,

Moscow 07/11/2008 10:34:44
9 Ghengis#


No more 'brutally derailed' than Labour losing Glasgow East which was a more significan result.

The gap is closing on Labour everywhere and the Tories will walk into Wesminster on the back of the English vote, that is the real dilemma facing Labour.

While congratulations should go to Mr Roy the country is facing severe difficulties and is forcast to be the worst affected major economy in Europe, this by-election will hardly affect that.

It's an anti-climax for Labour because their problems are still there and a dissapointment for the SNP but nothing more.

Salmond has his eyes fixed on 2010 and then 2017 i believe which is the real timetable for independence.
16

Cragdoo,

St Andrews 07/11/2008 10:34:55
oops , too quick to post

C'mon people let's get to the heart of the truth ,most of the votes did not come from Labour voters/supportes , the majority of Labours votes came from tactical voting from Conservatives/LibDems who knew they were out of the race long ago.
17

The Strategist,

07/11/2008 10:36:00
#5

The main reason that the oil price has fallen is the drop in demand caused by the economic downturn. As the downturn becomes a full blown recession it is possible that the oil price could fall even further although the UK's position will not be helped by the dollar/pound exchange rate which is of course moving against us.

There is a possibility that the recent decision by OPEC to reduce production will help push the oil price
back up although the jury is out on that for the moment.

On the other hand the decrease in the oil price is currently quite helpful as it has impacted positively on fuel prices although of course tax is by far the larger part of the cost per litre and Gordon Brown does not appear willing to reduce that.

However - once the recession is over then the oil price will soar on a combination of increasing demand and the lower investment in new projects which is what is happening now.

Consequently, the argument that a lower oil price means Scottish independence is no longer viable is something you can only argue for a relatively short period of time. Thereafter, some analysts believe the price could easily "overshoot" to hit $200.

All that said it would be sensible not to rely on oil as a "fiscal viagra" but to follow the excellent example of our Norwegian friends who are very rapidly developing a highly diversified economy.

Important to remind ourselves for example that Norway is now building electric cars and it looks very likely that the first tidal current turbines to be deployed in Scotland will be a Norwegian design.

Would that Scotland be in such a strong position to exploit the changes in the energy sector and others.
18

Cragdoo,

St Andrews 07/11/2008 10:37:33
I strongly believe that if voters had stuck to the party they support (i.e. Conservatives voting for Conservatives , LibDem voting for Libdem) then the result would have been very different. And no , I don't think the cons/libdem voters were swayed by Labours' promises , it was purely tactical
19

The Federalist (the poster formerly know as NAUON),

07/11/2008 10:38:19
#18 Using oil as an electoral weapon is a double-edged sword - fine when oil prices are how but leaves you open to attack when oil prices are low. the SNP would be better seeing oil for what it is - a bonus - and not the panacea to all our problems.
20

shrek4,

Edinburgh 07/11/2008 10:40:54
I just wonder what issues people were voting on. Were they national or local?
If they were voting for herr broon because he 'saved' the economy it's a bit like thanking the guy who shot you for dressing your wounds!
Don't be fooled by whats just happened, the nationalist vote is growing and Labour only have themselves to blame.

21

Cramondo,

Edinburgh 07/11/2008 10:44:03
#19 Cragdoo, even if your analysis is correct (and it may be) does it give the SNP any comfort if people now are voting tactically against them? Are you an independence person yourself?
22

Alternative (High-Octane) Fuel Head,

Edinburgh 07/11/2008 10:44:06
If there was ever a convincing case for meritocracy, this is it.
23

Yeah1,

07/11/2008 10:45:22
#16

"No more 'brutally derailed' than Labour losing Glasgow East which was a more significan result."

Why was Glasgow East 'more significant'? Because the SNP won?

Funny I thought Salmond said there was a political earthquake going on, surely that implies Glenrothes was equally significant?
24

Duncan in Edinburgh,

07/11/2008 10:49:01
#24 You think that when people vote differently to what you believe is right that proves them to be stupid?
25

Dragonlord,

07/11/2008 10:52:12
The Labour majority was reduce which means the votes were spread around more. The SNP just needed more voters, instead of them voting for minority parties like the Tories.This is a minor blip and the SNP will still do a great job for Scotland, instead of it being a Labour/Tory suburb.
26

Doh,

07/11/2008 10:56:21


A victory of fear over hope.
27

Ugly George,

Edinburgh 07/11/2008 10:56:30
27 Dragonlord
"The SNP just needed more voters"

Really!

This reminds me of a quote from Tommy Docherty. When asked which team would win in a game, he replied "the one that scores more goals"
28

Cragdoo,

St Andrews 07/11/2008 10:57:34
#23
wouldn't say I'm 100% convinced independance is the way forward for us , but warming to idea. As an ex-miners son , and having grown up under the cosh of Maggie Broon , I would have said I was a strong labour supported , but over the years my faith in them has steadily disappeared. Last nights result was dissappointing for me , I thought the good people of Glenrothes (yes there are quite a few of them) would have given the SNP a chance ,but as I mentioned earlier it would seem that alot of the voting was tactical. Also given the fact that the SNP candidate was the head of a Labour council , then he was on the back foot from the word go. Alot of people point out that Alex Salmond was perceived as 'smug' about winning this by-election. Tell me when ever you have heard anyone going into any kind of competition saying "Oh we're going to lose , please don't expect anything from us" that's hardly the way to instill confidence and influence people to vote for you now is it ?
29

Malc.F,

france 07/11/2008 10:57:58
At least the good people of Fife realise how anti Labour nearly all the media is. Gordon Brown is seen by the rest of the world as a force for good in leading the fight during this WORLD wide recession and have not been fooled by Alex Salmond-Trump and his shower of Proto-Tories.
30

Yeah1,

07/11/2008 10:58:18
#27

"The SNP just needed more voters, instead of them voting for minority parties like the Tories"

Actually even if the SNP had got every vote from the Tories, Lib Dems and all the other minor parties, Labour won still have won by over 3,500 votes.

So I'm afraid you are completely wrong.
31

antp,

Uk 07/11/2008 11:00:39
#27, the "i have no idea" analysis - voters were spread around? hmmm, they seem to be spread around in all elections. the tories were never going to get in - ever (and rightly so) - so there was no tactical voting involved. one part of your analysis that does stand up is: "the SNP just needed more votes". Clearly a logical and well researched statement.
32

The Strategist,

07/11/2008 11:03:12
#20

Whilst that is fair comment it's important to remember that if the economy is doing well then the oil price trend will be upwards especially now that the supply/demand differential is relatively tight.

A low oil price is therefore an indicator of a poorly performing economy.

Yes you could consider oil revenue as a bonus and in effect this is what the Norwegians have done. Although they have created their long term so called "oil fund" they've also invested a fair amount in infrastructure, R&D and new industries etc. The latter being the real bonus to their economy.

Sad to say of course UK oil revenue has disappeared into that black hole known as the Treasury and has not been used to diversify UK let alone Scottish industry.
33

Hibby,

Highlands 07/11/2008 11:04:55
What a beautiful morning it is! The Obama victory in America gives us at least some optimism in a global context and Bawheid gets his come-uppance in Glenrothes.
Most of the troubles in the world can be laid at the door of tribalism/ nationalism and both of these results are a strike against these destructive forces.
34

Cragdoo,

St Andrews 07/11/2008 11:05:01
#34

"Tories were never going to get in , so there was no tactical voting"

So who did all the tory voters vote for ? clearly not their own party , so is this not a tactical vote "I can't win , so I'll vote for someone else who can" ????
35

Bzzzz,

Edinburgh 07/11/2008 11:07:13
A minor blip. Was never going to be plain sailing, there are obviously plenty fowk who still need educating as to what the SNP intend on doing for Scotland, not the union, for Scotland. The union is just a drain on Scotlands resources and the sooner we are out of it the better, I really cant understand why anyone would want to be a part of it. Misguided grovelling loyalty and narrow minded stupidity as far as I can see.
Whilst there is so much ridiculous praise being aimed at Brown seems people have forgotten who got us in this situation in the first place.
36

Cragdoo,

St Andrews 07/11/2008 11:09:36
#38 well put Bzzzz
37

Yeah1,

07/11/2008 11:13:16
#31

"Alot of people point out that Alex Salmond was perceived as 'smug' about winning this by-election. Tell me when ever you have heard anyone going into any kind of competition saying "Oh we're going to lose , please don't expect anything from us"

There is a difference between saying 'we have an excellent chance of winning this election' and saying 'we will win'. Salmond said the latter - that is why he is percieved as being smug.
38

antp,

UK 07/11/2008 11:14:32
#34 in seats like Glenrothes the likes of the Tories will never get in - so their voters (all 3 of them) vote to make their point under no illusions that they will win, nor will they vote for anyone else. If you are a Tory you are on your own, certainly neither the SNP or Labour will ever unite with you to keep the other out. Tories might have a chance in SE England - where all the money seems to be but they have no chance in Scotland. Tactical voting only seems to have a chance when there is no foreseeable clear majortiy in first place. In response to your question "So who did all the tory voters vote for?" they voted for the tories of course.
39

tayman,

sheffield 07/11/2008 11:15:29
The reality is that Scotland is floating on a sea of public expenditure funded by the rest of the UK..and this is why it enjoys so much better public services. Over the next 30 years the working age poulation will decline by 8%, but the number of over 65s will increase by 400,000 increasing the demand on the public purse. If SNP had its way the country would already be as bust as Ireland, Iceland and Norway...Salmond's boast, pre the world-wide financial collaspe (to which the country's main banks have contributed) has come home to roost. The good and sensible people of Glenrothes have recognised that the reality of a vote for the SNP is a vote for poverty
40

Doh,

07/11/2008 11:17:46


A victory for fear over fantasy.
41

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07/11/2008 11:20:04
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42

,

07/11/2008 11:23:46
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43

,

07/11/2008 11:24:32
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44

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07/11/2008 11:25:46
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45

Yeah1,

07/11/2008 11:25:56
#45

"They lost nearly 4000 voters to the SNP in one of their heartlands"

Er....have you seen the election result? Labour GAINED both votes and vote percentage. They didn't lose any votes to the SNP at all.

That's not 'lies and spin' thats a fact.
46

Ugly George,

edinburgh 07/11/2008 11:27:50
sm753.5
"reported by the state run press that he claimed victory"

What state run press do we have?
47

Cragdoo,

St Andrews 07/11/2008 11:30:11
#41 , the tories actually lost votes in case you hadn't noticed , so either the tory voters moved away or voted for someone else (which you could call 'tactical' voting)
48

ChinaBear,

Hong Kong 07/11/2008 11:32:09
Mr Fish made a complete fool of himself and his party with his bickering about banks etc in a time when he had absolutely no control of the big picture. He's a little man in a little pond and he's been ineffective when the chips are down. He's great at spending money to buy votes and popularity, but when the chips are down and we're in a real crisis, he's untrustworthy. He's good in the good times, but in the current situation has absolutely no idea and that's why the people voted against him and his party. Expect more defections as the unemployment rates rise and spending becomes tighter, he has no answer, believe you me.
49

Yeah1,

07/11/2008 11:36:30
#46

"No in fact it was the exact opposite he said we had an excellent chance of winning but it was reported by the state run press that he claimed victory."

Direct quote from Alex Salmond: "you ask me the question, 'Do I think we will win?' The answer is ,'Yes, I do'."

Sounds to me like claiming victory...
50

Ugly George,

Edinburgh 07/11/2008 11:37:42
46 753.5
Are you saying that this report from the Times is false :

Asked if the SNP would overturn Labour’s 10,664-strong majority, Mr Salmond echoed the slogan used by Barack Obama during his US presidential election campaign: “Yes we can and yes we will.”

If so I expect that Alex salmond will report the Times to the Press Complaints Commission or even consider legal proceedings.

Also, is the Times part of the "state run press"
51

Yeah1,

07/11/2008 11:38:04
#48

"I wonder how many of the labour activists who were bused in registered as voters while they were there?"

You really should take a leaf out of John McCain's book and show some grace in defeat.

The people of Glenrothes, for whatever reason, chose Labour. Deal with it.
52

antp,

UK 07/11/2008 11:38:07
#51 or perhaps they were on holiday, in hospital, appearing at the Insolvency hearing, dead, or just plain stayed at home.
53

Cragdoo,

St Andrews 07/11/2008 11:40:05
#56 I'll give you that
54

WSS,

sandbach 07/11/2008 11:41:49
If Brown thinks that this is a vote of confidence in his policies then instead of this sample poll in a heavily biased Labour area, why not try a UK wide poll- let's just call it a general election. The result of that would tell him whether he had the support of the whole country.
55

Raymond Thomas Brooke,

Leven England 07/11/2008 11:46:52
Contrary to belief you can fool most of the people most of the time. Voting for a party that were responsible for creating this financial mess must mean they are happy with increased taxation , robbery of pensions ,war in Iraq,lying, sleaze etc etc
56

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07/11/2008 11:50:20
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57

Mercian,

UK 07/11/2008 11:52:30
#47

A victory for common sense over scaremongering paranoia
58

Ugly George,

Edinburgh 07/11/2008 11:52:49
59 Raymond
Actually you can see the Labour election strategy appearing. There was a report on Sky News this morning that British troops are going to leave Iraq in April.

Gordon Brown will play this as a deal he is doing with Barrack Obama thus hoping for a double whammy - no more war in Iraq and reflection in the glory of Obama.
59

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07/11/2008 11:52:56
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60

Yeah1,

07/11/2008 11:54:37
sm 7531/2:

You are such a hypocrit.

You accuse others of 'deliberately lying' and then you deliberately lie yourself by saying about Labour "They lost nearly 4000 voters to the SNP in one of their heartlands" - that is completely incorrect so either you are lying about it or you are ignorant of the facts of this election and therefore not really qualified to comment on it.
61

P Rayner.,

Latin America 07/11/2008 11:55:20
I support no political parties and hold no brief for Labour butI must agree last nights result was remarkable. At a time of its lowest ebb, during an economic crisis, against what appeared strong opposition, to win a an election is some achievment.This victory indicates a poor prognosis for the SNPin Scotland and the Conservatives in England.
62

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07/11/2008 11:56:35
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63

Yeah1,

07/11/2008 11:57:23
#63

If Salmond didn't say 'we will win' why doesn't he sue the numerous newspapers that reported him saying it for misquoting him?

Your great leader make a mistake, pure and simple. He was confident of victory and proclaimed that victory before the people had had their say - a very arrogant and dangerous thing to do.
64

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07/11/2008 11:58:16
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65

Yeah1,

07/11/2008 12:00:15
#66

"Really and from what untainted sourses do you obtain your "facts" from?"

Are you actually as ignorant as you seem? The facts are from the election result - are you now trying to say the result is made up?

Did labour not actually win this by-election by the votes and voting percentage that has been reported?

The more you talk the more crazy you become - your conspiracy theories are pathetic - Labour won. Deal with it.
66

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07/11/2008 12:00:41
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67

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07/11/2008 12:03:13
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68

Ewan M,

07/11/2008 12:03:18
This was vote against a poorly run SNP council that has failed to deliver for Glenrothes. I think people are tired of the SNP not accepting any responsibility and choosing to blame Westminster all the time, most people can see through that.
69

Yeah1,

07/11/2008 12:04:58
#72

"Lying out of your teeth again. It was spun he claimed victory it was spun he proclaimed a win but in fact his claim was he thought he "COULD" win and he "CAN" win which was true right up to when the last of the ballots where entered."

Salmond was DIRECTLY QUOTED in several newspapers saying that 'we will win'.

Do you understand what a direct quote is? It means he actually said that and the newspapers have quoted what he said.

If he didn't say that then he can sue them for lying...
70

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07/11/2008 12:05:16
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07/11/2008 12:06:10
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07/11/2008 12:06:36
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Duncan in Edinburgh,

07/11/2008 12:08:15
#66 Dear god you are wallowing in ignorance.

Labour received 19,300-odd votes in the 2005 general election in Glenrothes, and in this mid-term by-election they received 19,900-odd.

In other words, Labour increased their vote and their share of the vote.
74

Scheme,

07/11/2008 12:09:49
Only in Scotland could a party who are deliberately dismantling the country’s financial sector be voted in. Talk aboot the blind leading the blind…..
75

Yeah1,

07/11/2008 12:10:19
#75

"WTF are you having about what facts? the SNP gained 5% from a Labour heartland seat do you honestly think they took 5% from the Tories and the Lib dems? what an idiot. I suppose your going to claim labour took 3% from the SNP voters?"

Have you actually looked at the statistics for this by-election?

Labour GAINED about 600 votes from their total in the 2005 election, and increased their percentage of the vote from 52% to 55%.

The more you talk the more embarassing you are becoming.
76

Yeah1,

07/11/2008 12:13:43
#82

"Did you actually witness this quote being made yourself?"

I will repeat myself again - If Salmond did not say that then he can sue them for lying about what he said.

Considering several newspapers directly quoted him as saying 'we will win' i am inclined to believe that he said that.

Certainly I believe direct quotes from newspapers more than I believe the rantings of a paranoid and clearly ignorant poster such as yourself.
77

Ugly George,

07/11/2008 12:16:37
63 753.5
You have changed your position. In post 46 you stated that Alex Salmond did not say the SNP would win and now you are saying that you don't know as you weren't there. That is a bit rich from somebody who continually accuses others of lying.

I don't know what was said either but if the Times has deliberately misquoted Alex salmond why does he not complain to the PCC?
78

Ugly George,

07/11/2008 12:20:17
84 scheme
"Only in Scotland could a party who are deliberately dismantling the country’s financial sector be voted in."

How can spending £30bn+ to save the banks be called "deliberately dismantling the country's financial sector"?
79

Duncan in Edinburgh,

07/11/2008 12:20:59
#84 Perhaps it was because the choice was between that party, and one which advocated emulating the economy of Iceland. At least our economy is still functioning.
80

Alan B,

07/11/2008 12:25:32
#Duncan in Edinburgh

"At least our economy is still functioning."

Our economy both the scottish and whole UK is going into meltdown. All the serious economic bodies like the imf are predicting we will be in a much worse state than the rest of the major economies.

While I can understand people not wanting independence voting for labour is like turkeys voting for christmas.

The seriousness of Browns incompetence is going to appear only to real as real people suffer from this complete idiots economic disasterous mgt. Running an economy for short term political gain just demonstrates what a cancerous oaf he like so many other politicians are.
81

Lord_S,

Dole town 07/11/2008 12:26:08
Clearly the entire population of Glenrothes is benefit dependant and has been bought over by the Labour party. How can anyone who works vote Labour?? They make your existance as a worker and tax payer completely pointless!
82

Yeah1,

07/11/2008 12:27:07
#84

"Only in Scotland could a party who are deliberately dismantling the country’s financial sector be voted in. Talk aboot the blind leading the blind."

So you are suggesting the voters in Scotland are stupid then? Following your logic they must also have been 'blind' when they voted for the SNP in the 2007 Scottish election...
83

Ugly George,

Edinburgh 07/11/2008 12:33:11
90 Alan B
Put your shirt on the following scenario as the next part of Labour's strategy to win the next general election :

At some stage in the next few months Gordon Brown will meet Barack Obama. Following this meeting Gordon Brown will announce the withdrawal of British troops from Iraq. This will be portrayed as a deal done between the two. As I said earlier, this will be a double whammy for Brown. No more war in Iraq and basked reflected glory from Barack Obama.
84

Matt there,

Somewhere 07/11/2008 12:33:43
"...Mr Roy's own school being the perfect example as he demonstrated on Newsnicht with the help of Glenn Campbell, his school unbeknown to him had it's budget increased, and he was unable to identify cuts."

Thanks for raising this point, Hen Broon.

So Mr Roy has the same regard for the truth as Bendy Wendy? Well, he'll find he will be able to fit his teeth into the Old Peculiar Labour Swill Trough with his firends right enough!
85

Nevsky,

Moscow 07/11/2008 12:35:29
89 Duncan#

If Labour have been using that argument the it just proves the contempt in which they hold their electorate and how they rate their intelligence.

86

busbyfh,

07/11/2008 12:36:34
Keep religion and politics out of sport

Many people say this

Then why not keep sport - namely football out of politics....David Murray's plee for voters to vote against SNP was out of order,as it no doubt had your average Rangers fans doing exactly what they were told by "the boss".

Quit the mind control Murray - especially as there are so few developed ones to challenge your control (Yes - belonging to Rangers supporters)
87

Reiver,

Galashiels 07/11/2008 12:37:52
Glad to see the real people of our country speaking with their hard earned votes and putting them where they can see the greatest good ...

No need to wonder why we won't vote on that silly little independence ploy of the snp now ... yes, we know they are afraid, very afraid ... the times are still changing porky ...
88

Ugly George,

Edinburgh 07/11/2008 12:40:48
97 busbyth
David Murray is not just charman of Rangers he has extensive business holdings. If Sean Connery can express an opinion from the Bahamas why can't a businessman who has extensive business interests in Scotland.
89

,

07/11/2008 12:41:02
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
90

Ugly George,

07/11/2008 12:43:16
96 Jackie Priest"
Iceland will be sitting pretty again and Britain will be in the throes of economic turmoil"

Britain might be in turmoil but Iceland is hardly likely to be sitting pretty when you see the huge sums they have had to borrow.
91

Yeah1,

07/11/2008 12:43:48
#95

"it just proves the contempt in which they hold their electorate and how they rate their intelligence"

Some of your fellow SNP supporters have, on these boards today, variously called the electorate of Glenrothes 'traitors', 'numpties', 'thick' and 'blind' and said they 'deserve to rot in your pits of filth'.

Given that I hardly think you are in a position to complain about the contempt in which someone else holds the electorate or rates their intelligence.
92

Yeah1,

07/11/2008 12:48:27
#100

"Labour increase their vote by 551 while the SNP increase their by 4478 in a safe labour heartland seat"

Ah you finally looked at the election statistics did you?

You are finally admitting that Labour actually increased their votes and vote percentage after earlier saying they "lost nearly 4000 voters to the SNP".

Or perhaps you are going to try and pretend you didn't say that now, like you were pretending Salmond didn't say "we will win".

What an embarassment you are.
93

Ugly George,

Edinburgh 07/11/2008 12:49:58
100 753.5
It's funny. There was another individual who used to post on these threads called suchaparcelofrogues who used to indulge in ritual insults of others, continually accuse them of lying and accuse other posters (for some reason) of posting from London.

Are you related to him?

It is strange that he seems to have disappeared and at almost the same time you appeared with a name of sm7531/2 while somebody else had been using the name sm753. Life is full of strange coincidences.
94

Nevsky,

Moscow 07/11/2008 12:56:32
102 Yeah#

Yes i can, Labour are essentially lying to the voters and scaring the cr*p out of them if they are standing on the doorsteps and saying this rubbish and well you know it.

They are lying to their voters and treating them as 'thick Labour fodder.'

Scotland is not Iceland, not Norway or Ireland nor anyone else, anyone with half a brain is aware of that fact.

Personally i think you have to question people motives for voting Labour. Have the people of Glenrothes voted for Labour because they endorse their economic achievement over the past 3 months?

Have they voted for the worst recession in Europe? I don't think so.

What about Post Office closures? No!

From what seems to be coming out this was fought on local issues which is fair enough, but an endorsement of Labour...i think not, that judgement will be passed in the UK soon and Labour have absolutely no chance when the Telegraph and Times readers in middle England drop their papers into the box!
95

salmondella,

England 07/11/2008 12:59:18
As far as the results are concerned you can quote all you want about precentages and spin them around to suit whatever party you support. The fact is that the SNP expected to win this seat and this has not happened. It looks like they are not only in shock but also in denial. It is far to early to talk about a Labour comeback but my guess is that the NATS momentum has now been stopped and this trend will be repeated over the next 18 months or so. One thing I am certain of is that there will not be an independent Scotland - that dream is dead in the water.
96

Nevsky,

Moscow 07/11/2008 13:03:19
106 Salmonelly#

Independence is an absolute certainty in the future.

Labour's first defence if the SNP won would have been 'this is not a vote for independence' so you really can't have it both ways.

Independence in 2014 is my prediction.

Incidentally the Conservatives polled 3.8% of the vote and they will be the next UK government, fair representation for Scotland?
97

Scheme,

07/11/2008 13:03:48
#88 - Has the whole the 30 billion gone to the Scottish banks – I think not. And as for the bailout, only RBS will remain a Scottish bank in the true sense, HBOS will be assimilated by Lloyds, with thousands of jobs being lost and a token HQ left in Edinburgh.

#89 - Why do you choose to compare Scotland to the worst case scenario country (Iceland)? Why not choose the best case scenario country (Norway) as comparison?

#92 - I’m saying that the voters in Glenrothes were stupid to vote for labour yesterday. It beggars belief that they continue to blindly follow a party who discriminate against Scotland in order to try and appease middle-England. Well it’s not going to work, the English want Brown and his Scottish cronies out, a labour vote in Scotland is a wasted vote.
98

Yeah1,

07/11/2008 13:05:01
#105

"Labour are essentially lying to the voters and scaring the cr*p out of them if they are standing on the doorsteps and saying this rubbish and well you know it."

You really should have more faith in your fellow Scots. Are you suggesting the people of Glenrothes are not intelligent enough to see through 'lies' and 'rubbish'?

If anyone is treating the electorate of Glenrothes with contempt it is you - they voted for Labour, you can't deal with that, and so you basically imply they are idiots who can't see through blatant lies.
99

the thinking man,

falkirk 07/11/2008 13:06:00
If confirmation was ever required that most Fifers are thick then this election result provides conclusive proof.
100

The Federalist (the poster formerly know as NAUON),

07/11/2008 13:06:08
#104 It's the same guy - aka spanners. If I were a Nationalist I'd be embarrassed by the tripe he posts.

The claim that it was Tories who kept Labour in is nonsense if one looks at the change in the share of the vote:

Labour - +3%
SNP - +13%
Con - -10%
Lib Dem - -1%
Others - -3%

It seems clear to methat the main beneficiary of the collapse in the Tory vote (to 3%) were the SNP - almost certainly Tories who want a General Election now.
101

The Federalist (the poster formerly know as NAUON),

07/11/2008 13:07:24
"Scotland is not Iceland, not Norway or Ireland nor anyone else, anyone with half a brain is aware of that fact."

You should tell Alex Salmond to stop comparing Scotland to Iceland or elsewhere.

Salmond only has himself to balme.
102

Duncan in Edinburgh,

07/11/2008 13:07:53
#100 In case you genuinely do have a learning difficulty, let me remind you that the discussion about voter numbers started when you claimed that Labour had "lost nearly 4000 voters to the SNP". It was pointed out to you, quite without malice, that Labour had actually *gained* voters, so your statement was provably false.

You now want to pretend that your argument was that the SNP had made gains. Well it wasn't. For once, why not just admit that you were wrong?
103

The Federalist (the poster formerly know as NAUON),

07/11/2008 13:08:50
#107 I am convinced spanners is a unionist masquerading as a nationalist - no nationalist could seriously print the tripe he does - could they?
104

Yeah1,

07/11/2008 13:09:34
#111

"If confirmation was ever required that most Fifers are thick then this election result provides conclusive proof."

And yet another example of a sour-losing SNP supporter expressing a disgusting attitude for the people of Glenrothes.

Were they also 'thick' when, in almost exactly the same seat, they voted for the SNP in the 2007 Scottish election then? You can't have it both ways.
105

The Federalist (the poster formerly know as NAUON),

07/11/2008 13:12:15
#109 Calling voters stupid is an absolutely cracking way of getting support . . .
106

Nevsky,

Moscow 07/11/2008 13:13:44
113 Fed#

Salmond can compare the country to anyone he wants and the unionists can point to fact that Scotland would be bankrupt or like Albania.

Scotland is Scotland and has an economy (had) different to all these countries and you should be reminded that the UK should now be compared with Estonia and Latvia as the economy worst effected in Europe with part of the 'arc of insolvency' Ireland predicted to come out of recession well ahead of the UK

Do you have a problem with looking at facts or just prefer meaningless speculation?

That is FACT and not speculation.
107

Westfield Bairns,

falkirk 07/11/2008 13:14:20
I was dissapointed with the result last night, however congratulations are due to Lindsay Roy even thogh i think his Political career may be short lived. This may actualy work as a wake up call for the SNP. What have the SNP learned, they've learned that Nlabour are even better at lying than even they thought. Gordon Brown will be kicked out at the next election, i've no doubt about it. The question is will the people of Glenrothes feel the same way once people start losing their jobs,homes and Broon continues with his economic mismanagement and anti-Scottish policies
108

Nevsky,

Moscow 07/11/2008 13:17:08
Yeah 1#

You support what Gordon Brown has done to the economy i take it, wholehearted support?

There is a lot of gloating over the SNP's loss here which is fair enough but for anyone to believes this in any way eclipses the destruction of the economy under Labour is frankly a laughing stock and yes, thick!
109

Ugly George,

07/11/2008 13:18:10
112 Federalist
"It's the same guy"
Yes. One does not require the deductive powers of Sherlock Holmes to work that out.
110

Duncan in Edinburgh,

07/11/2008 13:18:21
Behind all the froth, I suspect Salmond and his cronies are working out exactly how to deal with the political reality that a downturn in the global economy means that people simply will not be interested in risking the change that would come from independence. The SNP's honeymoon is over, and their hubris is exposed. They must know that in this climate they cannot possibly win an independence referendum. Look for the commitment to bring one forward by 2010 to be watered down and then dropped. Salmond's rhetoric cannot defeat the forces of global economics.
111

Yeah1,

07/11/2008 13:18:49
#119

"What have the SNP learned, they've learned that Nlabour are even better at lying than even they thought."

I think the SNP should have learned from this that the Scottish people don't like pomposity and arrogance.

Salmond's "we will win" statement and his general attitude towards this by-election clearly turned off a number of voters.
112

Neil Waugh,

Old Strathcona 07/11/2008 13:19:29
A lot of sad faces and gloomy outlooks around Labour HQ today I'll bet.
Rather than a back full of knives Broon gets to blunder on for yet another day.
Choking on their own vomit is how the expression goes.
113

McMillar,

Fife 07/11/2008 13:20:57
Wow. Congratulations to Labour and this was not expected. I thought it would be close but the SNP may just pip them. Well done to the people of Glenrothes for bucking a trend here and voicing their own opinion at a time when all eyes were on this election. Brown has certainly been better recently and this is a big thumbs up. Long way to go yet and he has to keep up the momentum. Surprised the Conservatives got any votes to be honest.
114

Ugly George,

edinburgh 07/11/2008 13:21:06
109 Scheme
"Has the whole the 30 billion gone to the Scottish banks – I think not."
I think so. The total was £37bn with Lloyds TSB getting a smaller amount and the vast majority of it going to RBS and HBOS.
115

Yeah1,

07/11/2008 13:22:36
#124

"A lot of sad faces and gloomy outlooks around Labour HQ today I'll bet."

I would think the only sad faces will be in SNP HQ - perhaps Salmond's smug grin will have disappeared.

Maybe next time he will not display such an arrogant attitude and learn not to claim victory before the battle.
116

Duncan in Edinburgh,

07/11/2008 13:23:36
#124 Rubbish. Labour has no leader waiting in the wings, Brown is going from strength to strength, and Milliband is a deeply unpleasant prospect for much of the party. I think, in fact, that most faces in Labour this morning are more likely to be smiling.
117

Ugly George,

Edinburgh 07/11/2008 13:26:24
109 Scheme
PS : The figure for RBS alone is £20bn
118

Nevsky,

Moscow 07/11/2008 13:27:05
128 Duncan#

You think Brown will win the next election? You are completely deluded if you think middle England considers Brown as a success, he is viewed as an abject failure and he will be voted out, simple as that!
119

Mercian,

UK 07/11/2008 13:31:13
#117

Agreed. I don't know how these nationalist posters who berate or wish ill on places which don't elect the SNP can claim to be Scottish patriots.
120

Yok Finney,

Ross-shire (or Scotia Baltica) 07/11/2008 13:32:06
Would that the people of Glenrothes had shown more SPIRIT. They turned out in the rain to vote for a party that doesn't stand for anything or represent anyone. It was a daft night (as can happen in Fife).

The SNP need to better articulate the case for the modern nation-state (which has national assets not liabilities!), despite global incorporations, militaries and perhaps a 4 super-powers arrangement.

Burntisland is twinned with Flekkefjord which has 6 webpaages to list its shipbuilders (and order books to 2010). Fifers had these skills and talents that we've allowed to mostly disappear. Has Kirkcaldy High built even one boat to get bright kids started in this high-tech pursuit? Fifers also managed to squander the entire small fortune that Carnegie bequeathed to Dunfermline. So it's clear we're not up to speed at all in making finance and capitalism work for us.

The soothern soothmoothers have rolled their think tanks over our central suburbian lawns and do most hideously cackle over it. Think we must (everyman into his thinking pod!) for only the people can act.

True wealth derives from the ACTION of the creative mind and never from the dogmas of casino economists. (Hi, Mandy)
121

Neil Waugh,

Old Strathcona 07/11/2008 13:32:39
#127

Glenrothes was supposed to be the trigger to dump loser Broon. Now the Labour tall foreheads are stuck with him until the election that he is so loath to call. Mainly cuz he going to get his @ss kicked.
There is no joy in Mudville.
So Lindsay gets to put his trotters in the Westminster trough for a while.
Enjoy it while you can, son. It ain't gonna last long.
Being a rep in a soon-to-be-foreign parliament is not exactly a growth opportunity.
Unless the English do a Taiwan and have a parallel Scottish government in London.
That's a Monty Python skit I'd love to see.
122

Duncan in Edinburgh,

07/11/2008 13:33:20
#130 I don't know if Brown can win the next election. He certainly has a way to go. But then the next election is quite some time off, and the old adage about a week being a long time in politics has never been more true.

Given that the alternative is a Cameron government, I hope he can turn it around. I think it would help greatly if he took the opportunity of "unprecedented global economic meltdown" and dumped a few of the more unpleasant Blair legacies - like ID cards and the misguided "war on terror" legislation.

But one thing is very clear to me - independence is not coming any time soon. The SNP no longer has the means or the opportunity, even if it can still muster the motive.
123

Nevsky,

Moscow 07/11/2008 13:39:02
131 sm753#

The Troes and the Lib Dems could not even keep their deposits in this by-election, that for me is quite shocking.

The next UK government cannot hold onto it's deposit in a Scottish by-election and perhaps you are of the belief that this is good for Scotland in a UK context?

Will Scotland have a fair representation in the following Conservative government you think, maybe 2 MP's to put Scotland's case?

This is a serious issue which no unionist seems to want to talk about.
124

Nevsky,

Moscow 07/11/2008 13:41:20
135 Duncan#

When the English press turns of Brown (i give it a month or so) he will be massacred for what he has done, have a look at the headlines today. It is not about Glenrothes but recession, insolvency, house reposessions and a stagnant economy, Brown's plan is not working.
125

Duncan in Edinburgh,

07/11/2008 13:42:42
#136 The answer is proportional representation in UK general elections.
126

Duncan in Edinburgh,

07/11/2008 13:44:34
#137 Brown has a battle on his hands, no doubt. But the fact is that the global economic problems are not of his doing, and in many people's estimation he has responded well to them so far.
127

Yeah1,

07/11/2008 13:45:32
#136

"The next UK government cannot hold onto it's deposit in a Scottish by-election and perhaps you are of the belief that this is good for Scotland in a UK context?"

As has been proved by this by-election result nothing is certain in politics.

2010 is a long way off, there is no guarantee the tories will win the next general election.

Salmond was so confident of Glenrothes he proclaimed "we will win" and was proved wrong - so there is no certainty the tories will win either.
128

MacFhraing,

Callanish 07/11/2008 13:45:38
Certainly a wake-up call for the SNP and their tactics. Meanwhile, Scotland can return to being the northernmost region of England, Glenrothes can sink into oblivion, and Lindsay Roy can become the latest lobby-fodder addition to the Great Tyrant' s retinue. After his valedictory tour to offer congratulations to its people for having the sense to vote for him (surely he' ll have one), when do you think the people of the town will see Flash Gordon next ?
129

JF_1980,

Glasgow 07/11/2008 13:46:37
Not to detract from the main issues arising from the Glenrothes By-election, I did enjoy a wry smile, having seen the Conservative Party candidate lose his deposit.

I was initially very surprised to see that the Conservatives had put up one Maurice Golden as a candidate, a contemporary of mine from Dundee University. Do Auntie Annabel and her team run no checks on potential candidates? This is the same Maurice Golden who as captain of a football team somewhat dubiously called 'The **** Stars' was once sent from the field of play for racial abuse of an opposing player. This is the same Maurice Golden who as a captain of the aforementioned football team used to lead them in sectarian song. The same Maurice Golden, who with his associates, once terrorised a young Irish girl with sectarian abuse, to the point she had to seek counselling. The same Maurice Golden, who completely & utterly abused his position of power when president of DUSA, to the extent that financial restrictions were imposed upon those who succeeded him.

I find it somewhat ironic that as David Cameron tries to propel the Conservative Party forward to embrace a more 'liberal' way of thinking that they entrusted this troglodyte with their candidacy in the first place. The Conservative Party should take immediate action to ensure such individuals are not placed in the public eye again and carefully look at their candidates before selection. Did you know for instance that anyone can apply on the website to be a prospective candidate for the Scottish Conservative Party - a somewhat desperate state of affairs for a party aspiring to be the third party in Scottish Politics. Seriously, Annabel, I sincerely hope that this is the last we see of this ghastly figure upon the Scottish political landscape & can you and your colleagues please ensure this is the case?
130

Neil Waugh,

Old Strathcona 07/11/2008 13:48:08
#138

The real answer is a guaranteed number of Scottish seats in the English parliament regardless of population. Similar to the US Senate.
If the English insist on their phony "union" then make both partners effective and equal. Same deal in the House of Lords.
Give Scots people back the Westminster hammer. Or give us back out country. I hope that works for you.
131

Alan B,

07/11/2008 13:52:42
#139 Duncan

Much of the economic meltdown is his doing.

It is because of Brown that Britain is so exposed. It is because of Brown that Britain will suffer much worse than most.

While in Scotland the media will see people buy into the rubbish that this is all a global issue and their is little Brown could do. The English press are not so fawing of labour.

Cameron made a big tactical error in supporting Brown and Brown used it for his political advantage. That will not be forgotten. For the next period of time and unemployment rises and the economy goes down the tubes the english press will hammer the message that this is Browns fault. And lets face it, it is.

Brown has 2 advantages a biased BBC which is pro nu labour and that he could rush to an election on the back of the banking crisis.

When the banking crisis turns as it is into a deep economic crisis then England will turn on Brown.

The only think Cameron will have to weigh up is does he really want to take over in this mess. It will be yrs until the economy will recover.

132

Duncan in Edinburgh,

07/11/2008 13:54:09
#143 Oh dear, you were almost rational for a while there and now look.

The union is not "phony". Just because you don't agree with something that does not make it not exist!

There are four constituents in the United Kingdom, not two.

As for "give us back our country", for pity's sake, grow up. No-one has wrested power away. We live in a democracy. Stop throwing your toys out of the pram every time other people don't vote according to your beliefs.
133

Yeah1,

07/11/2008 14:01:51
#147

"They have effectively voted for nothing, for a nobody to go to Westminister to cast his vote in favour of whatever his party tell him."

So you suggest that rather than voting for a party would are currently in government and an MP whose vote in parliament will actually mean something, they should have voted for a party with a paltry number of MPs who have no power whatsoever in Westminster and whose MPs' votes are only important on the rare occasions that a parlimentary vote comes down to a difference of 6 or so?
134

Scheme,

07/11/2008 14:02:02
#129 – Regardless of the amount the Scottish banks received, the treasury had to borrow the money; it wasn’t stashed in some UK vault. Are you suggesting that an independent Scotland wouldn’t have been able to borrow money to prop up its banks? Then again, maybe it wouldn’t have needed to.
135

Duncan in Edinburgh,

07/11/2008 14:02:03
#145 You really can be quite determinedly wrong-headed at times. I disagree with your central belief. The economic troubles we have are largely a result of global forces. There seems to be little point arguing the t0ss with you though. Let's agree to disagree.

[Dear goodness, apparently you can't use the word t o s s on this site now. What a ridiculous filter system. Come on Scotsman, this is stupid.]
136

Nevsky,

Moscow 07/11/2008 14:08:37
144 sm753#

Would you trust the UK if England voted in the BNP, i guess you would according to you statement that you trust your fellow 'Britons'.

Scotland gets what England votes for and not what Britain votes for (are you just naive or delusional?)


Go it chum?
137

connaughtboy,

stonehaven 07/11/2008 14:10:09
A really disappointing result. Enjoy it while you can because this seat will be up for grabs again within 18 months. Maybe a lot sooner.
138

Alan B,

07/11/2008 14:10:43
#Duncan

I am not saying there is not global problems. What I am saying is that we are in a very vulernable situation becuase of gross mismanagement.

Just look at what the imf are saying about the British economy. Do you disagree with the imf that Britain is going to get it worse than most of the other major economies?

The 1.5% increase yesterday showed how desperate it has become. The fact the interest rate decrease was delayed so long has made the problem worse. Vince Cable was right in calling for interest rates to be slashed months ago.

I am no lib dem but he has been proved correct. We have just had the 1st quarter of a recession which shows how badly Brown has reacted to this crisis. Why did Darling take so long to change the remit of the mpc to allow it to act.
139

Duncan in Edinburgh,

07/11/2008 14:18:25
#154 I can accept that Vince Cable has made some very wise pronouncements on this issue; he is one of the few who has called a lot of the recent economic issues correctly.

But George Osborne and David Cameron are the only alternative to Darling and Brown. And people will recognise that, and may just vote accordingly.
140

Alan B,

07/11/2008 14:26:12
#Duncan

"But George Osborne and David Cameron are the only alternative to Darling and Brown. And people will recognise that, and may just vote accordingly."

In Scotland yes not in England.

While i detest the smarmy upper class twit that is Osborne and Cameron is not much better. Voting to keep Brown in power after his appalling economic legacy where he was in such an excellent position to really do something with the Brtish economy. Few inherit an economy in such a good underlying state as Brown but to run it in such a short termist way was economically insane.

The biggest problem with Brown is if he actually did what he said he would do he would not have got us in to this mess. He said he would not borrow over the economic cycle but broke that by borrowing heavily in good times. He said he would not allow house price inflation and did nothing to stop it.

An economy with such large public sector debt and private sector debt will take yrs to put right.

The worst aspect for labour, is that it is Brown leading them. If like the tories when they made a mess they could sack the chancellors responsible. Brown is the guy responsible. (i feel sorry for Darling having the poisoned challice).

So while i think few will have any faith in Osbourne atleast he is different and did not make the mess.

As a side issue have been impressed with John McFall who would make a far better chancellor.
141

Nevsky,

Moscow 07/11/2008 14:27:00
155 Duncan#

Just how could Cameron and Osborne done any worse? What has Brown and Darling actually done?

Borrowed billions on foreign markets to bail out banks? So what? Any idiot in charge would have had to have done the same thing.

Where is the strategy and where were the buffers against this happening?

The economy will perfor as one of the worst in Europe, going into recession with 25% of the countries economy based on failing financial markets, where is the strategy?

The whole joke of this interest rate cut is that the government is now encoraging borrowing at a time when the ECB is tightening restrictions for lending between banks, they are making a right royal ar*e of the whole matter.
142

The Federalist (the poster formerly know as NAUON),

07/11/2008 14:45:35
#156 Osborne's support amongst his own party has collapsed (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/politics/conservative/georgeosborne/3392981/Support-for-George-Osborne-collapses.html).

He's gone from an approval rating of 70% down to a paltry 2%.

If Osborne stays Cameron will have problems.
143

,

07/11/2008 15:16:05
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
144

Andrew Allan,

07/11/2008 15:23:04
Lindsay Roy is going to have to have a personality transplant akin to Barack Obama, and then he is going to have to deliver a great deal before the next general election to keep ahold of his seat any longer.
145

The Federalist (the poster formerly know as NAUON),

07/11/2008 15:33:13
#162 I think your blethering Andrew. The SNP won't be able to pile 1200 activists into this constituency at the General Election. I think they will have targets elswhere that they will put resources into - Dundee West being one that springs to mind.
146

Rufus T. Firefly,

07/11/2008 15:55:34
156 Jackie Priest,07/11/2008 14:25:36

"Unionists seem to think this election victory for Labour represents a victory for the union. Oh no it doesn't."

Eh? Are back on the Crystal Meth again?

So it was a victory for independence then??

JEEZO

These SNP losers are incredible!

No wonder they dont get taken seriously.
147

Armstrong Cowan Again,

07/11/2008 15:57:16
# 161 Viva Victoria
Personally I like Gordon Brown and his performance during the crisis has gained both himself and Britain a great deal of respect around the world. I say this not as a labour supporter. Like football ,elections are not over until they are over and Mr. Salmond of all people should know this.

Now what is this gibberish written by Viva Victoria about "SEPERATISTS" . Correct me if I am wrong but it is surely separatists. Do we really need your insults.
Grow up and get constuctive.
148

Armstrong Cowan Again,

Germany 07/11/2008 15:58:19
oh sorry, constructive
149

Pilrig.,

Livingston 07/11/2008 16:13:34
161 - a tory. shame yer party lost their deposit, hen !
150

An Greumach Mor,

Scotland 07/11/2008 18:21:08
Viva Victoria,

#155 - Are you off your phucking head...... I did laugh though.

Middle classes voting for labour in Scotland....you are funny.
151

Nevsky,

Moscow 07/11/2008 18:27:41
Lindsay Roy and Barack Obama both elected in the same week, wonder who will have the longer career?
152

,

07/11/2008 18:30:11
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
153

Reiver,

Galashiels 07/11/2008 18:45:30
#159 okay ... you're wrong ...

Viva Victoria, bit out there love, but way to go :) ...

163 ppink,07/11/2008 17:03:15
I would remind all the various assorted non SNP posters that a SNP government runs this country and so it is not at all bad to be one today.

# 163 okay it is the scottish executive, not Government so you get a cross on that point ... scotland is a part of the United Kingdom which is our country, so you get a cross on that point too ... as to the nonsense and promises made and defaulted on by the snp; I can comfortably make the assertion that means the snp are not actually running anything (not well at any rate) so another cross ... not doing well so far (that is you and the snp I mean) ... as to being good or bad being an snp supporter well I will give you the benefit of my tremendous amount of doubt and say that you get a nil response on whether or not it is not too bad.

All in all, you got it wrong too mate !!!
154

Reiver,

Galashiels 07/11/2008 18:49:03
#159 ... classic way to make yourself look bright ... criticise someone for a spelling mistake and then do the same thing ... hahahaha
155

tartan army 2222,

07/11/2008 19:13:22
167

They are the government now, not the executive, but you keep trying to fool yourself

The United Kingdom may be your country but it's not mine. They can tell me I'm British but it doesn't make me feel British

Re not running anything - are you serious? Education, health, ie devolved issues. Do you want me to go on?
156

Semper vigilo,

Glenrothes 07/11/2008 19:46:56
Many people in the Glenrothes area don't know what's going on in the world and don't care as long as they get their benefits and credits. Within the next year they are in for a big shock as the worst economic crisis since the 1930's occurs sadly losing many their jobs and homes.
Brown, a political con man, who is in many ways, on a UK basis, to blame for the crisis and now thinks he's a financial Messiah will surely soon carry the can. Watch Channel 4 for the real news each night.
157

English Bob,

England 07/11/2008 20:25:12
Scotland the brave eh? I think not.

Thanks for nothing fearties.
158

tartan army 2222,

07/11/2008 20:51:20
171

We will get there Bob, don't worry.
Were they feart? I think the answer is 'partly'.

I think there were a number of reasons for the Labour win.

1. Labour scaremongering over the introduction of care charges, despite Labour having similar charges in other councils.

2. The Scottish media's constant anti-SNP agenda. Glen Campbell's interview of the inept Lindsay Roy was disgraceful.

3. The media's portrayal of Gordon Brown as the saviour of the economy (despite him having partly authored it)

4. Over-confidence by the SNP

5. Too much leafleting by the SNP

Thing is Bob. We're getting there. You're complaining (and this is not a dig at you) but the English need to forge a nationalist party. The English Democrats are not that party - being anti-Scottish is not being patriotic. What England needs is an equivalent of the SNP. I hope you get there. I don't care if independence comes from your end or mine - as long as we get it.
159

tartan army 2222,

07/11/2008 20:56:27
One other thing. Despite many believing Glasgow East was one of the great Labour strongholds I would argue that Fife is much more so. It is socialist heaven up there - they even once had a communist MP. It takes years to break down that kind of voting cycle. We're on the way to doing it given last night's evidence.
160

Chaplin,

07/11/2008 21:27:41
Its shocking that the Nat trolls who infest these forums have taken to insulting the Glenrothes electorate who did not tow the party line.
They do more harm to the SNP cause than all the other parties put together.
161

,

07/11/2008 23:38:19
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
162

,

07/11/2008 23:55:17
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
163

GT1267,

Glasgow 08/11/2008 19:05:38
The result was a sad one. We need to promote Scotland as an economically responsible place both to ourselves and to the World. The more we give away responsibility over ourselves, our society and our economy, the more we reduce our selves and the weaker we become. A Scotland that is free to compete and co-operate will gain self respect and be thought of highly by our Southern friends. In this situation we can truely complement each other and have something positive to offer. A dependent and weak Scotland will always lead to a reputation of being weak and needy, and will continue and promote the worst eliments in our society from wherever the acquire their ideas. This is evident in some comments.

 

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