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Brown tastes victory - now for a general election in Spring?

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Published Date: 08 November 2008
IT WAS a Brown bounce that led to a Salmond trounce. But the Prime Minister's personal reprisal was just one half of the story of the surprise victory by Labour at the Glenrothes by-election.
The other side was Labour finally learning to campaign like a party that is in opposition north of the Border by unrelentingly trying to hold the SNP to account.

The victory, which left Labour with a three percentage point increase in its share of the vote – a remarkable achievement for an incumbent in a by-election – has also buoyed its hopes of surviving the next general election.

The SNP has highlighted the incursions it made on Labour's previous majority of 10,664, reducing this to 6,737. But its activists and politicians, convinced that they would take the seat right up until polling day, were left reeling on the night.

Mr Brown himself is not complacent enough to extrapolate the by-election result to make predictions about what it means for Labour across the whole electoral map.

With the economy still heading for recession, despite a massive interest rate cut this week, the Prime Minister is under no illusion that he will have to fight hard to secure another term in government. His gamble will be whether to wait another 18 months until the last possible moment to go to the polls, or risk all now while the full force of the downturn has yet to be unleashed.

He will be mindful of the fact that the UK economy is usually a year behind the United States. And yesterday America revealed it had lost half a million jobs in just two months – more than anyone expected.

Yesterday, Mr Brown played down speculation of a spring general election. Asked if Labour would now go on to win the next election, he said: "The undivided focus of governments and of ministers is on taking people through these difficult times.

"We have got to get the banks resuming their lending, we've got to help people with their gas and electricity bills, and we've got to get the rest of the world working with us."

Mr Brown hailed the result and underscored his personal role in the banking bail-out that had offered a reprieve for the country's financial institutions.

"What I have learned from this by-election is that people are prepared to support governments that will help people through the downturn and offer real help to people. They are less willing to support people who have no idea about how to solve the problems we have got," he said.

As Labour gathered in the Glenrothes shopping centre to parade its latest MP, Lindsay Roy, in front of the media, senior politicians repeatedly highlighted the "Brown bounce". Mr Roy said the Prime Minister had tried to call him three times. "Once on my home phone, but I missed him as I was in the shower, and twice on my mobile, but I didn't answer in time," he said.

Mr Brown had broken the recent convention that prime ministers do not visit by-election constituencies ahead of the contest. His wife Sarah also visited, and one senior Labour MP said: "She was brilliant on the doorstep, and kept being invited in for endless cups of tea. We had to drag her away in the end."

The Scotsman understands Mr Brown had to be encouraged to risk going to Glenrothes, which neighbours his own Kirkcaldy and Cowdenbeath seat, for fear that he would be tainted by association with any defeat.

Jim Murphy, the Scottish Secretary, hailed it as the biggest by-election success since 1978, when Labour won Kincardine and stopped an SNP march.

"It's a vindication of Gordon Brown, it's a humiliation for Alex Salmond. We have to get back to the business of governing."

Mr Murphy added that the victory would make the party "reflect what we do next": "Clearly, we put a confident case for the economy with Gordon Brown and the public responded to it."

There were also ramifications for the Conservative Party, however. Mr Murphy referred to Mr Cameron's trip to Glasgow yesterday: "We have a Conservative Party here which halved its vote and lost its deposit."

With his appointment as Scottish Secretary, Mr Murphy has been able to devote his attention to tripping up the SNP – and so far he has proved masterful. Scotland needed "grown-up politicians" and it would not be served by Mr Salmond or by the "Cameron schoolboy analysis".

Labour campaigners, led by Gordon Banks, who fought against the odds to keep Ochil and South Perthshire a Labour seat in 2005, had underlined the threat of SNP-imposed care charges and education cuts locally.

Mr Banks told The Scotsman the campaign was based around the "cuts and charges of the SNP", the popularity of long-term headmaster Mr Roy and his "action plan", and the personal endorsements by Mr Brown.

"Gordon and Sarah were a huge asset. I was very, very pleased that Gordon Brown got involved in this campaign. I thought it would be the right thing to do on a number of levels and I'm delighted he agreed."

Iain Gray, leader of the Labour group in Scotland, told The Scotsman the by-election was a lesson for the Nationalists: "With power comes responsibility. It wasn't negative campaigning. What we have done is hold the SNP up to scrutiny."

Earlier, in a pointed reference to Mr Salmond's attempts to align himself with Barack Obama's campaign, Mr Gray said: "It is not so much about the audacity of hope, but it is about the effrontery of hype."

For Mr Brown, the by-election win comes as a climax to a steady fightback for his own political future as leader of the Labour Party. He has already clawed a 20-point deficit to the Conservatives back to around nine points in the latest polls after his handling of the banking crisis.

Even one-time challenger, David Miliband, the Foreign Secretary, was moved to say yesterday that the result at Glenrothes was an endorsement of the Prime Minister's leadership.

However, while the result will pacify the doubters in the party, it is far from certain that Mr Brown will not be punished for the deteriorating state of the one area that he knows is usually his strongest: the economy.

Cameron puts brave face on coming third, in what was 'always going to be a two-horse race'

IF THE by-election result were to be replicated at the next general election, there would not be a Tory MP left in Scotland. That was one Labour official's instant summary of the impact of Glenrothes on Conservative hopes, and he could barely contain his glee.

The swing of three percentage points recorded against the Tory candidate Maurice Golden, combined with another improved Labour performance, would be enough to unseat David Mundell from his Dumfries-shire seat – the sole Tory constituency north of the Border.

No wonder, then, that Scottish Labour politicians were queuing up yesterday to express fake sympathy for the plight of David Cameron, the Tory leader.

Despite a determined effort, his candidate lost his deposit and saw his vote almost halved on the 2005 election result. The Tory share of the vote dropped from 7.1 per cent to 3.8 per cent, on a 52 per cent turnout – only four points less than the 2005 figure.

According to Jim Murphy, the Scottish Secretary, the result was a "humiliation" for Mr Cameron. Douglas Alexander, the International Development Secretary, said: "There will be quite a lot of furrowed brows in Conservative Central Office."

Still ahead in the UK polls – though by a margin now reduced to single figures – Mr Cameron could yet find himself becoming prime minister without winning a single Scottish constituency.

But there was no talk of a Tory general election victory – rather, the result had virtually ensured that Gordon Brown would be allowed to lead his party into the next election, something that was far from certain only three months ago. The result even sparked gossip about an early poll next May.

The Tories have only modest hopes for Scotland in the next election, and expect to win an extra two to four seats at best. But in Glenrothes they hit a modern-day low by losing their deposit after failing to win 5 per cent of the votes cast.

Westminster archives fail to show when the Tories last lost their deposit in a Scottish parliamentary by-election. Since 1997, it has happened to the party only once in the UK – at the 2006 Blaenau Gwent by-election in Wales (a seat won by an independent).

Before Glenrothes, the party's worst by-election performance was in Glasgow East in July, when it scraped 6.3 per cent but again saw its share of the vote fall.

Mr Cameron, on a visit to Glasgow yesterday, said he was delighted that the Tories had taken third place, pushing the Liberal Democrats into fourth. But he admitted: "In Scotland, it's always hard work for Conservatives."

He said: "This was always going to be a battle between Labour and the SNP. … The Conservative Party is now the third party in Scotland. That is progress for us."

Tory insiders regard the Glenrothes result as the inevitable consequence of a two-horse race between Labour and the Nationalists in an area that was not natural Conservative territory.

They point to the frequent visits from Westminster shadow Cabinet members as evidence of the party's willingness to engage with voters in Scotland, where the party has been polling around 17 per cent for the past two years.

The controversy surrounding the shadow chancellor, George Osborne, who was caught up in allegations of seeking funds from a Russian oligarch, was not said to have been mentioned on the doorsteps.

"If this was a general election, we would not have lost our deposit," one insider said. "There is no doubt our 7 per cent would have gone up. I hope that in a Westminster election the SNP are not going to represent the voice of change."

By-election specialists lick their wounds

ONE of the biggest humiliations of Glenrothes was the performance of the Liberal Democrats.

The party, which has built a reputation for performing well in by-elections, was beaten by the Conservatives into fourth place, losing its deposit on its way, along with ten per cent of its votes.

It polled under 1,000 votes as its usual supporters defected to the SNP and to shore up the Labour vote.

Worryingly for the Lib Dems, it highlights the collapse in support despite the campaign being run by Willie Rennie, who won a stunning victory in neighbouring Dunfermline in 2006.

While local businessman Harry Wills was no Willie Rennie, he cannot be held entirely accountable for the paltry 947 votes the party gained. Many aspects were outside the Liberal Democrats' control: the national mood and tension between the two chief candidates being foremost reasons for the party's failings. The Lib Dems' usual core of "angry and aggrieved" have moved to the SNP while the left-leaning supporters have drifted back to Labour.

Alistair Carmichael, the Lib Dem spokesman on Scotland, played down the disastrous result, the first campaign under the leadership of Tavish Scott.

"In a two-horse race, this is what happens. We get squeezed with two other centre-left parties."

And he denied that the party was on course to be wiped off the map in Scotland. "In Tavish Scott, we have someone leading the debate on crucial issues such as tax cuts and HBOS."

No matter what the party had done, it would have lost. But the scale of the defeat was bad partly because the Lib Dems chose not to invest the resources or people power to save the party from humiliation.

The things they said in a war of words

"I don't know any Labour MPs who are expecting us to win."

Labour MP Nick Palmer misjudges the situation as the polls close in the Glenrothes by-election.

"Everyone knows there is an economic storm sweeping the globe. The people yesterday put their faith in Gordon Brown. And it is a real personal tribute to his work."

Scottish Secretary Jim Murphy.

"What I have learned from this by-election is that people are prepared to support governments that will help people through the downturn, offer real help to people. They are less willing to support people who have no idea about how to solve the problems we have got."

Gordon Brown, Prime Minister.

"The real loser is the SNP and as they want to break up our country, to destroy the Union that I'm passionate about, then maybe it's no bad thing that the 'Salmond bounce' has disappeared."

David Cameron, Conservative leader.

"I won't pretend not to be deeply disappointed, I want to win every election we contest. But we did make progress last night."

Nicola Sturgeon, SNP deputy leader.

"I was wrong about the by-election. We're disappointed with the result. However, we're not disappointed with the campaign we fought. A campaign fought by Labour was a scaremongering and negative campaign but was successful. There are lessons to be learned and we will learn them."

Alex Salmond, SNP leader and First Minister.

"Since Glasgow East, the leadership of the party has been infected by hubris."

Jim Sillars, former SNP deputy leader.

"Alex Salmond predicted the SNP would win on Day One. He got it spectacularly wrong. Scottish politics has changed again. The honeymoon is over."

Tavish Scott, Scottish Liberal Democrat leader.


Page 1 of 1

  • Last Updated: 08 November 2008 12:14 AM
  • Source: The Scotsman
  • Location: Edinburgh
  • Related Topics: Glenrothes by-election
 
1

Marky Bhoy,

Dont Tread On Me 08/11/2008 00:37:59

Go for it call the election I dare you

GIVE ME LIBERTY OR GIVE ME DEATH ( I will never buy an ID card )
2

nabodican,

Rural Scotland 08/11/2008 00:42:03
What a load of utter twaddle, Liebour got more or less the same number of votes as they did at the last election with a similar low turnout.
In this area you could put a red coat on a goat and it would still get elected.
The SNP simply took votes from the lib dums.
All of these political numpties should be asking why 48% of the electorate could not be bothered to turn out to vote.
3

Castaway™ ,

08/11/2008 00:44:59
7 May 2009 England local council elections, probably moved to the 4 June 2009 in an effort to reduce costs and increase turnout.
4 June 2009 EU elections.
Oct/Nov 2009 UK general election ? with Parliament returning from recess on 12 October 2009.
6 May 2010 local elections in all London Boroughs, and 134 other English Local Authorities.
3 June 2010 last possible UK general election date.
20 Nov 2010 possible Scottish Referendum
4

Castaway™ ,

08/11/2008 00:50:53
#2 Your are correct,the TNS Polls opinion polls on Scottish independence shows:-
Oct 2008:agree 35%:not agree 43%:DK 22%
Mar 2008:agree 41%:not agree 40%:DK 19%
Nov 2007:agree 40%:not agree 44%:DK 16%
Aug 2007:agree 35%:not agree 50%:DK 15%
Avg-agree 38%:not agree 43.5%:DK 18.5%
DK=Don't know, who have shown a steady increase.

5

Edward,

08/11/2008 01:26:21
This has to be a joke by Geri Peev
not exactly reknowned for her journalism, more like wistful thinking by some Labour activists
The fact is Gordon Brown instructed all MP's and MSP's to flood into Genrothes to bolster support. What is he going to do in a General election, he can cover ALL the constituencies!
Yes, the SNP did not win the By election, they really must do their homework, they know that. This includes getting around a media that is prone to putting out what ever its told by Labour. A media that is staffed by Labour supporters. For tho who dont belief, look no further that the BBC, who had employed Douglas Frazers wife on BBC Rado Scotland , still does, but now employ's Douglas Frazer himself on BBC Scotland TV. The pair of them are out and out Labour supporters and make no bones about that.
So the SNP have an up hill struggle, they were and have always been the underdog as far as getting their message accross. Labour as well as the Tories and the Libdems have direct access to the press in London, which carries over onto the press in Scotland. he SNP have to work on this or workout how to get around it.
One aspect is the online forums, which Labour hate with a vengence as hey cannot control wht is said, which s why they often refer to anyone, regardless as a 'Cybernat' who says anything against them, even those who believe in the old Labour and socialists
6

subrosa,

08/11/2008 01:28:58
Just a wee few notes on how well Gordon is handling the UK economy and has done for 11 years.

1) Dec 2003 IMF gives Brown borrowing warning
??2) Sep 2005 IMF report warning over £1 trillion mountain of debt ??
3) Sep 2005 Brown besieged over growth and borrowing plans ??4) Dec 2005 IMF fires new warning over Britain's finances ??
5) Sep 2006 IMF warns over possible UK property crash
??6) Oct 2007 IMF report UK house market is 'heading for crash' ??
7) Apr 2008 IMF: UK vulnerable to US-style housing slump ??

This October, the IMF said that the UK was worst placed of all the major economies to weather the coming recession. ??

Thanks Gordon. ??It needs to be repeated every time a Labour Minister gets on the TV and says it couldn't be foreseen ........... YES IT COULD. YES IT WAS. GORDON IGNORED THE WARNINGS.

7

,

08/11/2008 01:56:08
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8

Richard Lionheart,

08/11/2008 02:22:08
Gordon Brown is too scared to call a General Election. He knows that it would be the end of the premiership he bullied his way too!
9

,

08/11/2008 02:26:57
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10

Phil C,

08/11/2008 04:47:14
"Brown tastes victory"

I hope he savours this small win because it ain't going to happen very often!
11

Phil C,

08/11/2008 05:07:44
#7 BTO

The SNP got about 30% of the votes in 1974 (just a bit less than the Scottish Parliament elections in 2006) when they nearly got the breakthrough. Labour then wrecked the economy, scared everyone sh*tless and talked of an assembly....then Maggie was thrust on us. For obvious reasons, the SNP did lose momentum then.

A similar scenario is unfolding now, but I don't believe the SNP will go away this time. They don't have to go anywhere with their tails between their legs. They can be proud of their achievements against Labour's spoiling tactics. It's not the SNP who are ruining our country!
12

,

08/11/2008 05:08:38
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13

Billiam Wallace,

08/11/2008 05:10:48
#9 Bachman Turner, Hahahahahahahahahahaha, you will have a hard job getting Gudrun out in front to lead you as he is usually to be found hiding in the cludgie as he flushes the economy doon the pan. Will you be following him in there too?
14

,

08/11/2008 05:11:04
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15

,

08/11/2008 05:12:57
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16

Billiam Wallace,

08/11/2008 05:15:29
Good post at #11 Phil, couldn't agree more. It never fails to amaze me how the unionist New Liebour apologists on these forums project the exact negative qualities of their party onto the SNP when the SNP are clearly of a far higher calibre and actually have policies. New Liebour merely react to events too late and have no clear vision for the future, (except to turn us into a police state and keep us dumbed down and subservient).
17

Phil C,

08/11/2008 05:22:17
#14 BTO

You don't strike me as a particularly open-minded gentleman. Anyone who holds bumbling Brown in the esteem you do has to have their sanity questioned.

The SNP has a very clear plan- to deliver Scotland back to it's people. For the small detail I refer you to their web site. Read and open your eyes and mind, and you will see the plan. Then you just need to believe in it and you will be a better man!
18

Billiam Wallace,

08/11/2008 05:22:18
#15 Bachman Turner, Hahahahahahahahahahaha, you will have a hard job getting Gudrun out in front to lead you as he is usually to be found hiding in the cludgie as he flushes the economy doon the pan. Will you be following him in there too?

A good example of SNP voters interest is real issues.

My case rests

You rest your case when you haven't established one, well done. We are all waiting to hear what you think of a leader who routinely disappears when the going gets tough and who routinely fails to take notice of and react to warnings?

The SNP sets out its policies on a fairly regular basis. New Labour fail to do this as it makes them sound like some sort of totalitarian government intent of regulating and controlling every aspect of life in Britain.

Please don't shift the focus onto the SNP again, tell us all the positive policies that New Liebour have created and implemented to make Britain the wealthy utopia it is today.

A good example of SNP voters interest is real issues.

I'm happy to agree with you on this one as I reckon that the SNP are interested in real issues and New Liebour are interested only in burying issues and staying at the trough as long as possible.
19

,

08/11/2008 05:43:17
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20

,

08/11/2008 05:46:42
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21

Guga II,

Rockall 08/11/2008 07:15:54
#20.

Obviously your other names are not good enough for you. Now it's Bachman-Turner Overdrive rather than Roofarse Blowfly and Bring Them On. Still, Labour Party drones such as yourself obviously suffer from multiple personalities, to match the twisted logic and policies of the Labour party.

22

steve 1511,

aberdeen 08/11/2008 07:26:57
fifers vote for labour,not the brightest are they,and the finest example of one is comrade broon who has bankrupted britain and is turning it into a banana republic,governed by europe
23

,

08/11/2008 07:28:38
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24

,

08/11/2008 07:31:19
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25

John S,

08/11/2008 07:34:19
#21 Guga II, Create your own disposable email address with mailbox for 24 hours and can be extended for free, register with the Scotsman,verify and use another user name and do this as often as one wishes.
26

Peter Curran,

Kirkliston 08/11/2008 07:40:00
The Glenrothes result is simply a bump in the road on the journey to an independent Scotland. Labour, led by Jim 'Skull' Murphy played a dirty game (Labour are now the equivalent of right-wing American republicans) but they were desperate, and desperate men do desperate things.

But mature politicians don't lay blame - they look to their own failings, analyse them, compensate and move on. The SNP allowed itself to be sucked into treating this Westminster election like a parish council struggle and paid the price. Scottish independence is about big issues, big ideas, and campaigns must never lose sight of that. We should have learned that from Barack Obama's brilliant campaign, and not allowed ourselves to be drawn into kailyard politics.

But we will swiftly get past this, and be stronger as a result of it.
27

,

08/11/2008 07:58:20
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28

John S,

08/11/2008 08:04:47
#26 Peter Curran, you are correct,if this result reflects the mood of the UK, Gordon had better go for a general election as soon as possible but he will dither.
He made a mistake by dithering and didn't hold the general election in Autum 2007.
Faded memories ?
The Crewe and Nantwich by-election on the 22 May 2008
The elections for the Mayor of London and the London Assembly on 1 May 2008
The Glasgow East by-election 24 July 2008.
29

Beachcomber,

Edinburgh 08/11/2008 08:09:10
#27 BTO

You ain't seen nothing yet..

Scotland will be independent, get over it or emigrate.
30

,

08/11/2008 08:15:16
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31

,

08/11/2008 08:20:55
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32

Peter Curran,

Kirkliston 08/11/2008 08:39:17
There are always people threatening to leave the country if a party they disagree with gets elected. They are invariably the kind of people any country would be glad to see the back of, but unfortunately, they don't go - they stay, after getting our hopes up that we would be rid of them at last.
33

Marian,

08/11/2008 08:44:27
To increase its vote share by 5% is a very considerable feat for the SNP in this constituency in Gordon Brown's backyard which is a tribal heartland of Old Labour loyalists who still genuinely believe that they are voting for Old Labour when they give their votes to the New Labour party.

There is absolutely no doubt whatsoever that this was another wholly negative campaign by New Labour who cling to their belief that If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will eventually come to believe it.

In the run-up to the by-election it thus became vitally important for New Labour to use all of its powers to repress dissent via its control of the Scots media, for the truth is the mortal enemy of the lie, and thus by extension, the truth is the greatest enemy of New Labour.

However the lies can be maintained only for such time as New Labour can shield the people from the political and economic consequences of the lies.

New Labour have lied to us, not once, but repeatedly for more than a decade. And now all the lies are being exposed. The myth of Brown's economic "genius" is coming tumbling down and the whole shoddy edifice of debt-ridden idiocy is displayed for all of us to see.

The wheels will come off New Labour's bus in the next 12 months as voters witness famous UK businesses folding on a weekly basis and unemployment rocketing to 1930's levels when the UK recession really begins to take hold.
34

bluehead,

edinburgh 08/11/2008 08:57:12
let us hope that brown has a taste of victory in his mind ,for this ,at last will give the people the chance to be rid of this guy, and his mob, once and for all,if he thinks the vote from a one horse town like Glenrothes will help him he is in for a rude awakening,please call an election.











1111
35

Auld Twa,

Edinburgh 08/11/2008 08:57:50
Let's wait and see how many of his election promises Roy manages to implement.
Dual carriageway around Glenrothes for a start, will the UK parliament provide this funding now ?
36

Roy,

08/11/2008 08:58:36
The thing about a bounce is that it quickly dissipates - usually into the long grass.
37

8noodles,

08/11/2008 09:02:53
I remember (and it wasnt that long ago) Gordon Brown coming up with a 37 billion bailout plan to save the UK and all the labour supporters calling him our savior.
Well unless I've missed something have we not got even worse since then? All that Brown touches does not turn to gold. The quicker you labour people relise that the better.
The sad thing is that in 50 to 100 years the oil will not be there and then the Uk govenement will laugh and give Scotland it's freedom knowing that we will cost to much to keep as a whole.
Time to get out now and make something of ourselfs before it's too late.
38

,

08/11/2008 09:07:30
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39

8noodles,

08/11/2008 09:09:45
And another thing is, i have never seen or heard of any govenement winning every by-election going, we were bound to lose one or two. Don't think that's the end of the SNP just because of one loss. There are many seat out there that labour hold by a thin thread, so roll on the general election and let us see.
40

8noodles,

08/11/2008 09:16:58
#39

the recession will end no matter who is running the country don't think just because GB is there at the moment it was him that got us out of it. Look back at every recession and you will see that after a year and a half to two years everything will go back up and stronger than before.
Stop thinking the labour monkey (GB) is the dog's balls as he has not help at all, just look at our banking system now in Scotland!!!
41

The Former Mr. Angry,

Perth 08/11/2008 09:28:59
General Election in Spring? Hmmm. Not really. More pigeons will be coming home to roost by then. Home grown ones that he can't blame on the USA.

Just because he won a seat already held by Labour in Fife albeit with a reduced majority does not place him well for elections in the rest of Scotland and especially England and Wales, where opinion seems clear that he is still a dead man walking and where has the dubious distinction of being hated for being "Scotch" and having taxed and spent people to the point of exhaustion.

By Spring there should be a continuation of house price falls back to sustainable levels with lots of negative equity and more defaulting mortgage payers, the economy still slowing and more unemployment. His tempatation will be to spend his way out of it, but the folly of this strategy is becoming more evident as time goes on and it's just more of the same Labour solution - if it moves spend money on it.
42

McMillar,

Fife 08/11/2008 09:55:01
This was a huge victory for labour and complete turnaround. Congratulations to Roy and Brown on a well fought campaign resulting in a ‘relative’ landslide. Brown is certainly on a roll and has endorsements coming on from leaders worldwide. That does count for a lot and Mr Roy was clearly an acceptable local option to balance it off. The SNP are not finished but it does require some rethinking. Too much arrogance and need better candidates to support their cause. Salmond is usually a quick learner and if he can adapt then should carry on the growth. If not then I can see other areas turning against this style of politics. Just get on with running country well and we can talk about independence later once they have more of a track record.
43

KL1,

Ampang 08/11/2008 09:59:34
The lack of objectivity in Scotland's mainstream media I guess should come as no surprise - for Ms Peev to state that Jim Murphy has proved masterful in his position as the new Scottish Secretary is risible.

It appears sufficient for Scottish Labour politicians to spin about Ireland, Iceland and Norway unchallenged in an attempt to prove yet again Scots are singularly incapable of managing themselves.

Glenrothes - given proximity to Brown's constituency, circumstances (death not resignation of the sitting candidate), economic collapse, near destruction of Edinburgh's fianance sector, local candidate (seemingly popular despite lack of political nous) and media spin meant that it was always going to be a difficult seat for the SNP to win.

Salmond may be guilty of hubris, however, he is undeniably Scotland's most competent politician - Labour MSPs as yet appear no match. It is his job to lead from the front both as leader of the SNP and as Scotland's FM. If anything, Salmond and the SNP will learn and bounce back from this.

In the long term Brown's bounce will prove nothing but a blip - that he is still enjoying any semblance of a 'bounce' is more a testament to the lack of media objectivity that any statesmanlike economic skill.

44

KampungHighlander,

Jakarta 08/11/2008 10:17:30
What this vote has shown is that the Tories and LibDems are becoming increasingly irrelevant as the electoral mood polarizes.

This is not necessarily a bad thing for the SNP.

This polarization is a necessary first step in winning the independence referendum.

We should start setting our target as 50% of the vote.

We will need 50% + 1 to deliver our ultimate goal of independence.
45

KampungHighlander,

Jakarta 08/11/2008 10:32:30
#39 B-TO

"One thing is for sure. We need more Gordon years. I am sure he would be the the first to admit he (or anyone else) did not predict the scale of the global economic crisis."

That's kind of funny considering that the IMF has been telling the UK Government since 2006 that this was coming. I guess Gordon is deaf as well as blind.

"Give the guy a chance. Many years of economic growth....oh, that was taken for granted.. wrong,,, GB had a huge part to play there."

He most certainly did, he built an entire legacy of fake growth fueled by growing public expenditure and encouraging unsupportable levels of debt. I am glad even his fans recognize that whatever happens over the next 2 years its all Gordon's fault.


"But I think GB was born to take us through a recession."

Or born to put you in one.

"My job is negotiation, but if I was on the other side of the table GB would be a formidable opponent"

By your comments I think you would find any primate a formidable opponent.

46

Pilrig.,

Livingston 08/11/2008 10:33:05
9 - yep we love ID cards and poverty when we're pensioners !
47

Pilrig.,

08/11/2008 10:38:39
39 - Broon went on a pension raid which would have embarrassed his old comrade Cap'n Bob Maxwell.
He flogged of the UKs gold reserves when the price was bargain basement
He also bankrolled and supported Blair's Iraqi folly.

No matter, middle England will settle the next election and they want shot of him.
48

tartan army 2222,

08/11/2008 10:40:46
Now for Brown's dithering over the general election. Will I? Won't I? Oh, I can't decide! Mandy, Dougie, what do you think? Priceless.

Fact is the Glenrothes by-election was more difficult than Glasgow East. Socialism is so deep in Fife that it's hard to break that cycle. We've made headroads. Also Labour made great play of care charges (despite having them themselves on other councils). The Scottish media also played a great part - witness Glen Campbell's disgracefully soft interview of Lindsay Roy. And Gordon's saving of the economy. They played that well - but really it's like being punched in the face and the assailant then fixing you up with sticking plasters.
49

Rasco,

08/11/2008 10:53:41
Now the election is over are we going to hear what is happening with the Post Offices if some in Glenrothies are closed will Mr Roy come out in defence of the old people who use them for the pension and meeting of friends.
50

John S,

08/11/2008 10:57:55
#42 and #44.Good posts makes a change from the ranting and raving of some posters.
51

tartan army 2222,

08/11/2008 11:04:39
50

Does he know what a post office is? He didn't know what a post office card account was.
52

brownlie,

08/11/2008 11:10:38
39 BTO

"I think GB was born to take us through a recession"

He also born to bring:

oppression: in colluding and funding invasion of a country which posed no threat to this country.

repression: in imprisoning without trial and the imposition of identity cards.

obsession: in deriding anything positive regarding Scotland and Scots.

recession: the state of the UK economy for which he is directly responsible.

depression: again, the state of the UK economy and it's effects on the poor, the less well-off, the vulnerable and the elderly.

Yes GB is the man for repression, obsession, recession and depression.
53

John S,

08/11/2008 11:23:40
Decision support software for everyday people (this includes our PM).
Gordon have you ever felt lost while pondering different options desperately wanting to choose the best one, this software could be just what you need. By user interface designed for ordinary humans, let our software do the underlying math and present you with best alternative that suits your needs.
How does it work? It's rather simple:
Step 1. Enter criteria, importance and needs
Step 2. Enter alternatives that you are thinking about
Step 3. See rankings and choose a best option
Gordon now you can blame the PC when things go wrong.
54

Billiam Wallace,

08/11/2008 11:39:25
#34 Nice post again Marian as usual. BTO just keeps repeating the same mind numbing drivel over and over. I'm still waiting for some unionist genius to tell me all their wonderful policies and plans for the future. I guess I will have a long wait as we all know that they don't have any.

ALBA GU BRATH!
55

W U Merchant,

Aberdeen 08/11/2008 11:54:11
With masses of SNP "supporters" set to revert to voting Tory, independence is dead in the water. How long can the Blessed Alex last?
56

WSS,

sandbach 08/11/2008 11:56:03
England would love an early General Election. As they say "Turkeys don't vote for Christmas" and Brown knows the moment he calls an election he is finished. Who was the last PM who was never elected by the country, or will that be another first for Gordon?
57

Nevsky,

Moscow 08/11/2008 11:58:55
55 Billiam#

They have no policies for the union, there never has been, just a gradual assimilation, 300 years of which has spawned a mutant Brit/Scot who, so confused with his identity and racked with the sucessfully propogated feelings of inferiority regarding his own country and culture will even turn against his own people in defence of his true superior and master.


58

Nevsky,

Moscow 08/11/2008 12:02:36
56 Merchant#

Well the Tories will have to do better than losing their deposit lol but you can still vote for them. I am sure you have a lot in common with the true-blues in the shires (you being from Aberdeen lol).
59

Billiam Wallace,

08/11/2008 12:21:35
#58 Nevsky, Cheers mate. Still waiting mind you. If one of them does come up with a decent policy I will eat my hat, (That's the special oatmeal hat I keep for just such occasions). The unionistas have gone from insane euphoria at the result to just belittling Mr. Salmond and rubbishing the SNP, still negativity and spin, no way forward and no clear policies. Good, they are dead in the water.

To anyone expecting Broon Pants to call a spring election, don't hold your breath, he is a bottle merchant and will keep putting it off until he has no choice or someone pushes him, (Mandie might do it).
60

,

08/11/2008 12:24:15
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61

,

08/11/2008 12:25:17
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62

cataibh,

Over the Struie 08/11/2008 12:44:46
The end of the SNP forget it. In the mid 60's early 70's we held all night parties when we saved a deposit at a bye election.
63

An Greumach Mor,

Scotland 08/11/2008 13:39:55
Unionist Classic
- The first time the numpty BTO made me laugh.

"23 Bachman-Turner Overdrive,08/11/2008 07:28:38
#21

I have always used BTO, and unless you are very slow it was obvious.

If I need to make it more OBVIOUS for the slow, then I have.

The others you mention, are not me."

The mindless sleazy comments, the consant name calling, the lack of a coherent policy except Scotland cannot manage without England to hold it together, the same relentless posters come and go then a new moniker and the posting continues in the same method and manner.

unionist drivel, I sometime wonder if they are all huddled in the same room typing on their laptops logged into multiple forums posting what a saviour the labour party and GB are to us Scots.

Labour are dying in Scotland we just do not have a date for the funeral yet.
64

AJ Fife,

08/11/2008 13:46:04
Good to see the unionists in an upbeat mood! The usual misery seems to be lifted for now.

Still, it won't be long 'til the next Broon bawz up and we'll have normal service resumed! :)
65

Marian,

08/11/2008 13:53:20
There is no doubt that Gordon Brown is personally to blame for Britain's desperate economic situation. He is a complete charlatan as he postures about the UK and World stage seeking to position himself as leading a one-man campaign to bring in tougher regulation of the financial services industry when there is overwhelming evidence in his speeches and writings over the past 11 years that he wanted little or no regulation. Since Gordon Brown took control of the UK economy in 1997, debt for individuals (as opposed to government debt) has almost trebled to £1,580 billion which is more than the UK’s total economic output. It is the highest household borrowing that Britain or any G7 country has ever seen. The lending nevertheless carried on recklessly under Gordon Brown. The tripartite structure of regulators he set up did not properly monitor how such financial institutions might find the money. Under Gordon Brown the UK recklessly allowed its own banks to become the most leveraged of any in Europe other than Iceland.

Gordon Brown has also repeatedly claimed that the crisis to the UK economy and banking system had been imported from the USA, but these are the IMF warnings which give the lie to his protestations of innocence:

1) Dec 2003 IMF gives Brown borrowing warning

2) Sep 2005 IMF report warning over £1 trillion mountain of debt

3) Sep 2005 Brown besieged over growth and borrowing plans

4) Dec 2005 IMF fires new warning over Britain's finances

5) Sep 2006 IMF warns over possible UK property crash

6) Oct 2007 IMF report UK house market is 'heading for crash'

7) Apr 2008 IMF: UK vulnerable to US-style housing slump

This October, the IMF said that the UK was worst placed of all the major economies to weather the coming recession.
66

brownlie,

08/11/2008 14:04:32
"Brown tastes victory - general election in the Spring"

Oh, bring it on!

Now, where have I heard that before - was it Obama's slogan?
67

The west awake,

Argyll 08/11/2008 14:06:06
From the BBC today;
"The former chief executives of Bank of Scotland and Royal Bank of Scotland have written to HBOS calling for its chairman and chief executive to resign.
The writers, Sir Peter Burt and Sir George Mathewson, are trying to "blow up" the takeover of HBOS by Lloyds TSB, says BBC business editor Robert Peston."

- For the first time, I am inclined to believe this particular piece of UK plotting against Scotland will fail. It looks like this deal is falling apart. What does it matter whether there is only one bid, if no bids are needed? A "shotgun wedding" which will result in mass job losses inScotland. Labour obviously consider this a small price to pay to keep Scotland down.
Another blow to evil Labour.
68

Jingsitsme,

EDINBURGH 08/11/2008 14:09:31
well it just shows that Labour cronies use Scotland when they want to to boost their own egos.

They couldn't have cared less before and still don't about Scotland and it's people.

We get all the rejects from down south, and even going to get a whole lot of waste from their too.

Come on don't be fooled by all those promises.

It's time for change and it will happen do get off your back sides and make it happen if you want it to.
69

lulach mac gille coemgain,

08/11/2008 15:42:10
Labour played dirty and won - well if that’s the way it’s to be - did ye hear about the School Heidmaster and his involvement wi kiddies and how he used to strap them - The truth needs outing !

Oh and wait until the list of improprieties wi Alistair Darling and his dealings in Edinburgh in the eighties come oot !

The Gauntlets doon !
70

izzie,

dundee 08/11/2008 15:45:39
Please Gordon gonna gie us an election in April gonna huh
71

Bzzzz,

Edinburgh 08/11/2008 15:54:55
Aye, definately! gies a general election! that'd be the nail in labours coffin and a huge jump towards independence!
72

Hamish Scott,

08/11/2008 16:16:35
"Brown tastes victory - now for a general election in Spring?"

No, be sensible. Bottler Brown and a recession say different.
73

St Andrew of Scotland, Russia & Greece,

Edinburgh 08/11/2008 16:33:22
So the powers of darkness have struck back. The Labour Party who slag off countries such as Ireland and Norway in order to frighten the Scots into remaining in the out of date British State. Yet these countries have living standards out of sight of the Scots.
It was Harold Wilson who said that If Britain is not a world power then it is nothing'. The UK is almost bankrupt and facing a bleak future, the fact that the peoples of the British Isles would be wealthier and happier with political control of their own states. The British state is finished. The Labour Party are dinosaurs trying to perpetuate an outdated system which is doomed to failure.
74

subrosa,

08/11/2008 16:41:25
# 56

You wish. Tories who believe in an independent Scotland (and there are plenty of them) will be more determined to vote SNP.

I expect you're feeling a bit bit lonely up there in Aberdeenshire so I can understand your dreaming.
75

Gtj,

08/11/2008 17:08:36
Brown can have an election whenever he wants it makes no difference.

Labour are dead and buried, anyone doesn't realise this is in Cloud Coo-Coo Land.
76

James.com,

08/11/2008 17:18:40
Labours strategy of a Dependency culture has always worked. We vote for handouts.
77

Scottish then British,

Corstorphine 08/11/2008 18:16:29
Labour won because the frightners were put on them by Brown regards the financial climate,talk money and you will get votes.
Put the money where your mouth is Brown and help the pensioners, for instance don`t tax the pension which has already been taxed.
There are a lot more of us now so remember that when the next general election is due.
78

The Pict.,

CANADA 08/11/2008 18:34:18
How any Scot can vote for an English party is beyond me. You, 'Canny Dae That' lackies, should be ashamed to call yourselves Scottish.
79

Ciotach,

08/11/2008 18:49:22
90-minute-nationalists and Labour Party Supporters that too thick to realise that Brown and his predecessor are just Tories in another guise - privatising the NHS, selective schools, more nuclear weapons, slavishly following America etc - are responsible for this result. How sad it must be to hate England and vote for an English party!
80

,

08/11/2008 19:10:06
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81

morris,

edinburgh 08/11/2008 19:34:05
Labour activists in Scotland need a brain transplant! The UK government is decided by 500 plus seats outwith Scotland and Labour standing is still not enough to survive.It will probably still be a total hiding and Scotland will still get a Tory government she did not want but nevertheless DID elect by voting for any Unionist party.A five year old child should be able to get this!

On the question of HBOS,
HBOS is being forced into a takeover by a bank whose own finances are iffy for the sole purpose of removing a Scottish identity and helping bind us into the Union.Whether we separate or not is for the people to decide, not for a bunch of quislings to manipulate to their own ends.You deserve nothing Scotland,you ask for even less!
82

Jock Tamson,

Scotland, Caledonia, Alba 08/11/2008 20:37:30
Smee@84. My experience of you is that you post more than you can ever understand.
83

Colkitto,

08/11/2008 22:46:00
Going by the latest poll Glernrothes has changed nothing for Brown.

ICM Poll to be published tomorrow in the Sunday Telegraph shows the Tories have increased their lead over Labour.

Tories: 43%

Labour: 30%

LibDems: 18%

Others: 9%

This would give the Tories between 80-100 seat majority.

All that awaits Brown is humiliation
84

Robert Burns,

San Diego, CA, U.S.A. 09/11/2008 00:45:00
All this about a mere 3%? That looks to me like no change.
85

Reiver,

Galashiels 09/11/2008 16:36:01
#17 born in Edinburgh I am British and want (like so many of my British countryment) no part of the drivel and twaddle put forth by the snp ... they are malcontents with an insidious racist thread, a thread that seems to support hating everything that originates south of the old border - even when there is strong representation and opportunity for all parts of Britain within our Government.

It seems no one understands that it is an 'old' border ... we are now British, why not loose the chip on your shoulder and joint the rest of us working towards a new century for the benefit of all.
86

Alan B,

09/11/2008 18:29:16
Brown has made such a mess of the economy he will need to run quickly for an election.

The longer he waits and the more his incompentence becomes apparent then he will get trounced in England. When real people lose their jobs. Lose their homes. Cannot get new jobs. Families are ruined. And the media in london who is more tory than the labour biase up here get going, then labour will get slaughtered in an election. The only advantage labour have is the on going biase of the BBC.

Scotland can look on from the sidelines and see if it will be labour or the tories who will run down scotland.
87

Alan B,

09/11/2008 18:31:45
#Reiver

That is daft. You do not like being scottish as you can tell from your post. You see yourself as british. Fair enough but others do not share your view and are proud to be scottish. That is not racist. And supporting independence becuase it is in scotlands national interest is what any normal person who sees them as scottish would consider. Only if you do not see scotland as your country would you put britains interests above scotlands.
88

frank mcbride,

lusitania 10/11/2008 03:50:53
#34, Marian.

Unfortunately, I don't think your analysis is right.

This "great recession" will last, only, a short time.

The Recession has been manufactured, and is easily seen to be so, by the power hungry One/New/Fairer One Worldists.

When was the last/first time that Big/small/any kind of business was baled out by governments, globally?
89

frank mcbride,

lusitania 10/11/2008 03:53:45
#89, Reiver.

I believe that you may be able to associate with the sentiments expressed in my # 92.

 

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