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Analysis: PM slams the brakes on Salmond's momentum

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Published Date: 07 November 2008
IT is official. As of this morning, the honeymoon is over. The extended feel-good factor which Alex Salmond and the SNP had carried with them since last May came to a halt in the early hours of this morning when the Nationalists failed to take Glenrothes from Labour.
Mr Salmond had predicted a "political earthquake", he had forecast an SNP win and he had been so sure that he wagered his own money on the result. But it did not happen.

This result will hurt the Nationalists because they had expected to win. It did not matter that the SNP needed to overturn a 10,664 Labour majority to take the seat; the Nationalists expected to win because their canvass returns told them they would do so – they had won the corresponding seat at last year's Scottish elections and this really was within their grasp.

Normally, the failure to overturn such a big Labour majority in a traditional Labour area would be greeted with nothing more than disappoin-ted shrugs, but Glenrothes was different. The SNP felt this was its seat from the moment the by-election was announced.

The crucial effect of Labour's victory is that it has halted the momentum the SNP had built up from last May's Holyrood elections, through its victory in Glasgow East. That will make a huge difference to the psychological attitude of MSPs and MPs of both parties when they reconvene at their parliaments next week.

But what of Labour? This was the victory the party needed desperately in attempting to halt a slide towards ignominious defeat at the next General Election. The win this morning has allowed Labour to take a step forward politically and electorally.

Just six weeks ago, Gordon Brown was facing open calls from senior members of his party for a leadership election. He was not expected to survive as Prime Minister beyond the turn of the year, with Glenrothes predicted as the defeat which would send him into political oblivion.

However, the global economic crisis gave Mr Brown a chance to re-establish himself as an experienced leader capable of tackling the challenges facing the country. His political recovery has now been boosted by this result, which will help silence critics within his party. This will also allow Mr Brown to turn his attention away from internal party wrangles and on to the Conservative challenge.

Glenrothes represents a major triumph for Labour in Scotland and a personal victory for the Prime Minister.

Mr Brown decided to ditch the "convention" preventing prime ministers from campaigning in by-elections and visited the constituency twice. His wife, Sarah Brown, was there even more often and the political capital invested by both Browns – and a host of Cabinet members – was considerable.

This was a high-risk strategy, but it paid off. Now, as a result, it looks as if Mr Brown himself won the by-election.

Momentum is everything in politics. Going into the Glenrothes by-election, it was with the SNP. Now, as the ballot boxes are packed away and the posters are taken down around the Fife constituency, that momentum has been stopped.

It is far too early, and there is much more to be done, before that momentum is transferred completely to the Labour Party. Indeed, that may never happen. For Labour, Glenrothes may prove to be a temporary blip, a short respite in an overall downward spiral.

But for those involved in Labour's campaign, this morning's result will come as the most welcome and enjoyable piece of news any of them have had for quite some considerable time.

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1

Rufus T. Firefly,

07/11/2008 02:07:18
Well done Labour.

Independence is a busted flush.

INDEPENDENCE RIP.
2

Jeeemy,

St Andrews 07/11/2008 02:07:35
Oh! Hamish, watch that you don’t spill your celebration drink, after all one swallow does not make a summer.
3

Matt there,

07/11/2008 02:18:07
"IT is official. As of this morning, the honeymoon is over."

Hamish, you gave up all pretence of being a JOURNALIST long ago. PR mouthpiece. Not a good job to hold.
4

Lianachan,

Highlands 07/11/2008 02:21:57
I always enjoy reading Hamish's articles in here. They are hilarious in their transparency.
5

Jeeemy,

St Andrews 07/11/2008 02:37:16
40,000 jobs will now go, that’s almost one job for every voter who turned out at Glenrothes.
Labour will now introduce Mr Roy to the House of Commons to the sound of “marching through Georgia” where Mr Roy will pick up an early pension in 18 months time.
The “Brown bounce” will in due course bounce straight down a big hole that the same “Brown” has been digging and there is no way out of that hole.
6

kofk,

corralejo 07/11/2008 03:15:53
tonight was not a victory for Scotland,but it has been a wake up call for all of us who have worked so hard to prove that we are serious about our aspirations, Justice Truth , and hope is on our side, we will be a nation again, yes we will , its time ,.... we are so very lucky to have a leader, yet powerless at the mo till we grant him such as A.S. anyway heres hoping
7

kofk,

corralejo 07/11/2008 03:26:55
as for the honey moon is over nonsense look out,the days of voting for war criminals are over, the truth is just around the corner, dont you just love it
8

,

07/11/2008 03:28:32
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9

kofk,

corralejo 07/11/2008 03:47:15
its not glenrothes faulte, we just need to work harder
10

democracy,

Scottish Borders 07/11/2008 04:46:04
#8 a bit strong there Haggis Slayer, I would say that they are best, misguided, if they think New Labour will improve their lot!

At worst,they are just slower in the uptake than the rest of Scotland and not been astute enough to realise what New Labour has been up to during the the past 11yrs!!
11

democracy,

Scottish Borders 07/11/2008 04:47:38
#8 a bit strong there Haggis Slayer, I would say that they are at best, misguided, if they think New Labour will improve their lot!

At worst,they are just slower in the uptake than the rest of Scotland and not been astute enough to realise what New Labour has been up to during the the past 11yrs!!
12

An Beal Bacht,

07/11/2008 04:50:16
A wee bit ae triumphalism fae the Hootsman's journos is to be expected. They won the day. It won't last long however. Not because of resurgent nationalism - but due to the failure of laissez faire capitalism.
13

,

07/11/2008 05:13:46
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14

SkeptikScot,

07/11/2008 05:14:24
#8 QUOTE: "you deserve to rot in your pits of filth. Traitors one and all!"

Get a grip, man! At elections not everyone votes the way you want them to.
15

,

07/11/2008 05:25:34
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16

donald,

glasgow 07/11/2008 05:58:15
We'll be back
17

KampungHighlander,

Jakarta 07/11/2008 06:20:52
So since the election has now been won, how long do you think that it will take for Brown to announce that the Scottish Built Super Carriers have been deferred in favour of the English Built Ballistic Missile Subs?

Not enough money to do both, and save the banks as well.
18

steve 1511,

aberdeen 07/11/2008 06:28:37
the turkeys of glenrothes have voted for xmas
comrade broon has bankrupted the country
britian will have the deepest recession of any of the major countries,
unemployement to go up by millions
the highest tax levels ever for the working man
homes repossessed at the highest levels ever
energy companies rip us off at double the level of europe
banks continue to rip us off as comrade broon throws 100s of billions at them
the sleaze and corruption partys ship is sinking and the voters of fife have burnt the lifeboats
we are doomed by broon,doomed
19

ANDREW the man !!,

07/11/2008 06:30:28
lol all youse poor wee sad SNP members !
GROW UP ! YOUSE LOST ! TAKE IT ON THE CHIN LIKE A MAN !
20

izzie,

dundee 07/11/2008 06:40:06
Headlines FIFE ELECTS LABOUR MP Whatever next?
21

,

07/11/2008 06:41:04
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22

KampungHighlander,

Jakarta 07/11/2008 06:46:47
#19 Andy Pandy

When the SNP won Glasgow East the Unionists on these threads disappeared for a week.

When Labour won Glenrothes the Nationalist where out in force the very next day.

That is why we will eventually win the referendum, we don't get discouraged, we don't despair.

We dust ourselves of and go right back into the fight. That is why it is only a matter of time.
23

izzie,

dundee 07/11/2008 06:53:42
Well said #22 I am old enough to remember other occasions when the pundits announced that the SNP was finished. We always pick ourselves up and get on with it . Roll on the next by- election. W e will be there in our thousands again. Well done to the campaign team. All of Scotland should be proud of how you battled.
24

Angleland Isover,

07/11/2008 07:14:45
The people of Glenrothes wont be fooled forever. hopefully one day soon it will all click for their sakes.
25

Angleland Isover,

07/11/2008 07:17:21
#24 Lets go all the way and give the english independence.
26

,

07/11/2008 07:23:23
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27

Bejjy,

07/11/2008 07:38:41
#15 roughrider

I wonder how the scum in Glenrothes will pay their fuel bills.
Mugs.

They will pay their fuel bills in the same way as scum like you in Glasgow and the idiotic Champion Haggis Slayer of Fife @#8 will do. Who would want to live in an independent Scotland populated by morons like you two.
28

yockel,

07/11/2008 07:49:57
Voting Labour these days is a bit beyond belief but then so is religion and that survives, ho humm.
29

,

07/11/2008 07:54:47
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30

bully wee alba,

Edinburgh 07/11/2008 07:56:08
A temporary setback, but all the groundwork has been done and we can build upon this result to return stronger and better equipped the next time to take this seat.
A poor candidate has been elected this time, but be aware Unionists, we are not going away.
31

Bejjy,

07/11/2008 07:59:13
#31 roughrider

The kind of nasty response that the readers of these forums have come to expect from losers like you.
32

Fifemeg,

glenrothes 07/11/2008 07:59:47
For the information of the less informed of the posters...not ALL of us voted labour back in. We DON'T deserve to suffer becauses there are still some misguided people out there. I was gutted when I saw the result, but I did the ONLY thing possible, put an "X" beside SNP.
roughrider, I have done nothing to deserve your disgraceful attitude, grow up. I couldn't have forced everyone else here to vote the same way as me.
33

Marian,

07/11/2008 08:18:01
This was always going to be a mountain to climb for the SNP. The area has always been traditional Old Labour whose loyalists still genuinely believe that they are voting for Old Labour when they give their votes to the New Labour party.

It was also always on the cards that Scots voters would seek to have what they see as the best of both worlds by playing the tactical game of strongly supporting an independent acting Government of Scotland led by the SNP, whilst at the same time their primeval fear of the Tories leads them to still tacitly support an allegedly left wing Labour government for the UK as a whole.

Added to that was another wholly negative campaign by New Labour in their belief that If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will eventually come to believe it.

However the lies can be maintained only for such time as New Labour can shield the people from the political and economic consequences of the lies.

In the run-up to the by-election it thus became vitally important for New Labour to use all of its powers to repress dissent via its control of the Scots media, for the truth is the mortal enemy of the lie, and thus by extension, the truth is the greatest enemy of New Labour.

However their holding on at Glenrothes is but a temporary respite for New Labour as the wheels will come off New Labour's bus in the next 12 months as voters witness famous UK businesses folding on a weekly basis and unemployment rocketing to 1930's levels when the UK recession really begins to take hold.

Voters are already wakening up to the fact that the person responsible for the carnage is residing in 10 Downing Street and will take their revenge in full at the UK General Election.
34

Martinh,

07/11/2008 08:22:06
Labour also won council by-elections in Forth (in Edinburgh) and Bailieston in Glasgow under STV, so its not just Fife where the SNP advance has been halted. In Glenrothes, even with all the publicity of a National by election, still only 52% of the electorate could be bothered to vote, which (unlike the USA) is deeply worrying for all political parties.

The SNP paid the price of arrogance, by assuming that the the voters would meekly follow on from Glasgow East. Whereas Nicola Sturgeon has at least behaved with some dignity in explaining the result, most ofthe above comments from SNP supporters here are appalling and extreme.
35

roughrider,

Glasgow 07/11/2008 08:30:20
33 Bejjy???????
The kind of nasty response that the readers of these forums have come to expect from losers like you.
ooooo naughty me.
Your the loser pal.
Another waste of space piece of labour lobby fodder like Roy means that Scotland loses out.
The man is a joke.
He is also thick as he thinks a rise in the education budget is a cut. Thick as mince Roy, is he a liar or just stupid?
36

The_Reiver,

07/11/2008 08:38:35
Time now for the SNP and the Scotsman to apologize to the voters of Glenrothes for their patronising attitude and taking them for granted. Isn't it interesting how the Scottish establishment obsessively backs losers like Salmond and HBOS? Clearly the people of Fife are more intelligent than SNP activists and Scotsman commentators? Not only were the SNP arrogant they were also aggressive (remember the ground war they claimed to have won?); this lost them many votes. Time that Salmomd learnt a bit of humility but I suspect that this is impossible for a man that has already achieved demagogue status. This is not the end, It is not the end of the beginning but for Salmond it is the beginning of the end. (AS has not yet compared himself to WC yet but it will come). Well SNP folks enjoy your Stalingrad.
37

Roy,

07/11/2008 09:19:02
Oh doesn't the Unscotsman just love it. The SNP vote was up 13%, Labour had to wheel in every big gun and break their farcical 'tradition'. And we had to have the economy in meltdown so that Maggie Broun could mount a white charger. Labour had to milk the Scottish cringe for all it was worth. Timing is all-important and time constantly changes.
38

KampungHighlander,

Jakarta 07/11/2008 09:22:59
#39 The Reiver

"Clearly the people of Fife are more intelligent than SNP activists and Scotsman commentators?"

Are you claiming that the Scotsman has a pro SNP Bias? What planet are you on?

"This is not the end, It is not the end of the beginning but for Salmond it is the beginning of the end."

Paraphrasing Winston Churchill, how about what he really said "That this is the end of the beginning". Which is exactly what this is, the end of a couple relatively unimportant Bye Election battles before the real fight begins.

The main events that will decide matters are the next Westminster General Election followed either by a referendum or a Holyrood Election and then referendum. Everything else is simply prologue that Scottish Children in the Future wont be expected to learn to understand how their country became independent.

"Well SNP folks enjoy your Stalingrad."

Stalingrad was a pivotal moment in history. This bye election is a f@rt in a hurricane, irrelevant, for everyone except Mr. Brown clinging to his unelected position.

Enjoy your little victory Reiver, you won't be getting any more.

39

Swiffen,

07/11/2008 09:25:06
I fear certain posters have lost the plot of these threads a wee bit, why they feel the need to insult the electorate of Fife is beyond me. Surely, that’s how democracy works the people decide who gets in not name callers on a web-site. It does smack of if you don't follow my ideals, your ideals don’t count. A very insular opinion and one that real SNP members should be distancing themselves from, unless we want to become a shortbread tin banana republic.

The Labour win in Glenrothes could be due to a number of factors, it could be that the SNP are seen as a irrelevance in Westminster and more relevant for the Scottish Parliament alone, it could have been that they felt the Union was a better reason to vote than independence or it could have been they were turned away by Alex's apparent arrogance at predicting a SNP win before the polls had even opened.

However, as a number of posters have pointed out the SNP will be back and it will always be interesting to see how the future of Scotland pans out.
40

An Greumach Mor,

Scotland 07/11/2008 09:27:46
A mining community with strong labour ties, who have the proud boast that a fifer is the leader of the UK labour party & PM decided to back their man. Not exactly a transferable position to the rest of Scotland let alone the UK. Fife is a labour heartland.

The campaign was also about the SNP candidate being the leader of the council and labour ran the whole campaign cleverly about 1 issue increases in cost for elderly and disabled. Playing the opposition against the current SNP council.

All the pundits are calling this a great win for Gordon Brown but the SNP got a 5% increase in vote in the most loyal labour grounds in the UK.

It would like to see them try to repeat that further north.

The position is also totally different in England where they have lost all chance.

This is a seat the SNP wanted to win, hoped to win because it would have been the end for labour in Scotland. But we have many more seats to contest and not many of them in Gordon Browns back yard.

Unlke the unionist we do not crumble at the first hurdle. We are up and at them the very next day. It was a tough battle and we lost and we will keep on going and increasing our support for Scotland and Scotlands issues.
41

The Accountant,

Gods Country - Fife 07/11/2008 09:32:11
Hey Roughrider

Loser!

Thank God the nationalists are unlikely to achieve independence in my lifetime - they might have bitter and twisted individuals like you in a position of responsibility.

The people of Fife are not dazzled by smug Alec the way that the punters in Glasgow were - the folk in Glasgow voted for the SNP, thats their right, i dont agree with it but at the end of the day their choice, I certainly wouldnt be labelling them as being a disgrace to their country.

Get over it, you lost, Smug Alec will no doubt give the East Fife game a miss this weekend now.
42

An Greumach Mor,

Scotland 07/11/2008 09:33:23
#42 Most of the hostile and over the top comments come from Labour trolls, just ignore them.

The pose as SNP supporters and say stupid things. Then login again and pass comment from up on their high horse. It happens everyday.

If you meet SNP supporters in the real world you will find these types of views are never expressed. Just New Labour Sleaze Corruption and Spin.
43

,

07/11/2008 09:39:57
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44

A_Scottish_Voice,

07/11/2008 09:47:11
This By-election was won by media spin and Labour lies.

Fool me once shame on you.
Fool me twice shame on me.

Something tells me you could fool the people of Glenrothes all day long untill the cows come home. Evey time I hear the name Glenrothes, for some reason I cannot get the phrase Gullible Glenrothes out of my head.

Having said that, congratulaions Lindsay Roy - Welcome to the Gravy Train.
45

salmondella,

England 07/11/2008 10:21:25
The credit crunch has exposed the weakness of nationalism and the SNP against the interests of the global econonomy and big business. They have failed miserably in coming up with any solutions during the bye election to deal with the credit crunch. In 2006 Salmond said that an independent Scotland would potentially have a place in Northern Europe's 'arc of prosperity' alongside celtic tigers such as Iceland and Ireland. An independent Scotland, he claimed, would be a haven of economic growth because of its independent financial sector immune from the ravages of the global economy. Has Iceland and Ireland proved to be immune because of their "indepedence"? Those celtic tigers are in deep trouble and like Brown, Salmond was caught up in the illusions of the capitalist boom with no perspective of how the capitalist system operated. For all the so called differences with the national government the SNP have supported every measure taken by Brown to bail out the banks thus he is a servant of the very "spivs and speculators" he criticised. The game is up for the SNP, thay can no more solve the problems of the economy than Labour - and if it now a choice for the voters between the two, then it may well be that despite everything Labour will come out on top as they did in Glenrothes.
46

The Federalist (the poster formerly know as NAUON),

07/11/2008 10:25:58
I think most of us got it wrong - even those who thought it might be close. Labour increased their share by 3% and comfortably held on despite the SNP throwing everything including the kitchen sink at Labour. For the SNP it is not a disaster but it should give them pause for thought.

The reasons why they did not make the big break-through are complex but I'll try to give my thoughts on why they lost.

The SNP still try to fight elections as the opposition and, as we saw here, that is no longer the case in Scotland. The consequence of at least one policy contributed to their downfall here. The council tax freeze may be nationally a popular move but at a local level councils are finding it hard to implement. It was easy for Labour to attack the local Lib Dem/SNP coalition for charges for local services - charges I believe are a direct result of freezing the Council Tax. If they want to avoid this issue happening again then serious consideration is going to have to be given to the block grant levels that councils receive. That in itself may have implications for funding other Scottish Government priorities. Something will have to give - and it will not be the Council Tax freeze. I would expect some other SNP policy to be delayed or even abandoned altogether to keep their flagship policy intact.

Another issue is undoubtedly was independence. I have been derided here for pointing out that Labour would try to use the global financial crisis and events in countries such as Iceland for their own political benefit. Whether events in Iceland (or Hungary, Ukraine etc) have a direct correlation to Scottish independence is irrelevant (I personally don't think they do). The perception is that they do and the SNP have only themselves to blame. Salmond set himself up for a fall with his Arc of Prosperity speech. The SNP need to start making the case for Scottish independence purely in Scottish terms not on what another country has done.

(to be continued)
47

The Federalist (the poster formerly know as NAUON),

07/11/2008 10:26:19
(continued)

That brings us to the third area - oil. The last month or so has shown that economies who rely heavily on a particular natural resource suffer due to fluctuating commodity prices. Here in Scotland some are beginning to realise the fallacy of SNP economic policy that is built on the price of oil. The SNP were fine when oil prices were at a high level but now at the low price levels we have now their argument has been undermined. The SNP need to take oil out of the argument and make the case that economic independence is possible whether or not we have oil. That means they really do need to make a reassessment of their policies for a post-independence Scotland.

The truth is that if the SNP are going to win an independence referendum they have a long way to go to convince the agnostics in the electorate. They need to make a much more subtle case that the one they have made thus far.
48

Border Scot,

07/11/2008 10:27:05
Some of the SNP supporters on here should hang their heads in shame. The contempt they are showing for fellow Scots that do not share their views is beyond belief. It actually demonstrates why so many of us dislike Scottish nationalism.

A word to the wise: you will never get what you want for as long as you choose to insult and dismiss the majority of the Scottish people.
49

antp,

UK 07/11/2008 10:27:47
#47 (and countless others), cant you see that voters chose to elect who they thought was best for the job in their area and not national issues? they were not interested in independence/union - they knew that in 2010 they will have that option, and don't forget if Scotland does go independent in 2010 everyone would not necessarily vote in the SNP in subsequent years. It was a fairly safe seat, things have changed a little in the last few months, so it's no big deal that they held the seat. By elections come and go, there will be others but as #49 says dont show contempt for those that made their choice last night. The SNP did not lose the seat - labour held it. It's a good job everyone has their own mind and are not intimidated (or brainwashed) into voting for what number 47 wants or we'd be seeing "hail Salmond" salutes from all and sundry.
50

Border Scot,

07/11/2008 10:33:36
#50,51,52 - I could not agree more. Great posts that will no doubt be savaged by some nationalist neanderthals.

Up to now the SNP has always portrayed Scottish independence as a smal step that will inevitably lead Scotland to much greater prosperity. The events of the past few months have sown that this will not necessarily be the case - which is what many of have ben arguing for quite a while.

This is not about being scared to break freeor being Quislings or traitors, it s about wanting what is best for Scots in their day to day lives. Maybe independence is the right route, but up to now most of us have not been persuaded.

It is also worth noting that as of yesterday interest rates in Scotland are lower than they are in the Eurozone.
51

Scotsman in Dublin,

07/11/2008 10:37:24
#50, what a stupid post. The SNP losing a by-election for Westminster hardly signifies the "game is up" for the SNP. Remember that this is an election for the British goverment not the Scottish goverment and the SNP will always have a disadvantage in these elections because it is impossible for them to form a goverment in Westminster.

I'm not sure that I agree with SNP policy to continue to contest the British elections, Scotland has its own parliment now and this should be the focus.

52

Yeah1,

07/11/2008 10:41:31
#13

"The kingdom of fife should hang its ugly unionist head in shame. You idiots will get what you deserve. Fifers are anti scottish and a disgrace to their country."

Your attitude towards the people of Glenrothes is utterly disgusting. Just because they didn't vote the way you wanted them to they are 'idiots', 'anti scottish' and a 'disgrace'?

You really need to grow up and take a leaf out of John McCain's book by showing some grace in defeat.

The only idiot and disgrace around here is you.
53

Martinh,

07/11/2008 10:43:32
No-one has commented on my previous post #37, which points out that Labour won not only in Fife but in the Forth ward council by-election in Ediniburgh (Lib Dem-SNP council) and in Baillieston (Labour council) under the new STV system where it is difficult to predict the outcome. So the swing back to Labour seems to be throughout Scotland (OK n=3 is a small sample) that cannot simply be explained away by the 'incumbancy' factor.' Undoubtedly National issues played a part in all these elections, and if people prefer to stick with Gordon Brown and Alistair Darling in these difficult times, then that does not make them fawning unionist sycophants, they simply regard the current Management as preferable to any alternative.
54

Doh,

07/11/2008 10:46:54


This was a great result for Labour.

They can continue with their plans for ID cards, 42 day detention, tax breaks for nondoms and post office closures. A great day.

A victory of fear over hope.
55

Nevsky,

Moscow 07/11/2008 10:46:55
55 Border Scot#

No nationalist savages any post that makes an informed judgement, just look at some of the unionist posters today to find what you are looking for, they are, as usual, a disgrace.

Personally i feel the whole thing is an anti-climax and i think people realise that the issues that are facing the country are much much bigger thn 1 by-election win in Glenrothes (even if the SNP had won).

Brown will get nothing from this and i 100% believe he will be shown the door at the next election as he has completely lost middle England.

The Tories will win the next election and the Labour vote might well hold firm in Scotland with a Tory threat but i have no doubt the SNP will win the next Holyrood election and that following the Tories in Westminster the Labour party (especially in Scotland) will become fractured and impatient.

I don't think an independence vote in 2010 will be won (i might be wrong though as figures ut the vote much higher in the event of a conservative government) but i think 2014 is more likely, i am also 100% certain that it will happen.
56

tearortwo,

burton on trent 07/11/2008 10:49:49
I look on from a distance at events in Glenrothes and rely on the Scotsman and Herald, along with BBc Scotland for news. It,therefore, comes as no surprize that Labour won because the afore mentioned news media seemed to me to be extraordinarily biased in their opinions and editorials. Contributors to these blogs are much more interested in politics than most people and can see through much of the Labour spin but we are very much in the minority.
The most worrying thing for democracy in Scotland is the lack of incisive and even handed journalism, and without the exposure of half truths and lies from those in power it is unfair to blame voters who have to make decisions in the absence of honest and unambiguous information.
After the dust has settled in Glenrothes history will once more record that the voters have been lied to and ultimately it is the news media who should take the blame.
57

izzie,

dundee 07/11/2008 10:51:53
# 57 You are not an nationalist you are apolitical agitator. The people of Glenrothes have a right to choose their representative (I am sorry they did not elect Peter Grant but so be it) insulting them is futile and offensive andI have never met any fellow avtic=vits who would share your sentiments. The SNP has to build on its increased vote and focus on the next election. This is one small step on the long long road back to independence. This is a time of reflection and remember we have been here before . ALBA GU BRATH
58

Nevsky,

Moscow 07/11/2008 10:53:51
61 tear#

A balanced post. I don't think Glenrothes will have any significance whatsoever for the Westminster election. Labour will of course spin it for all it is worth but i think the voters in England have a much more balanced media than Scotland and i am sure, like you say, when the dust has settled that when the media starts to get to grip and make sense of the fast moving events that Labour could be wiped out at the next election.
59

,

07/11/2008 11:05:56
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60

Border Scot,

07/11/2008 11:08:54
#64 - Labour got more votes last night than they did in 2007. The SNP took votes from the Tories and the LibDems.
61

,

07/11/2008 11:09:15
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62

Border Scot,

07/11/2008 11:10:14
#63 - So your take on this is that Scots who do not vote SNP only don't because they are not as clever as you in seeing through media bias in Scotland. You don't think much of us do you?
63

,

07/11/2008 11:10:18
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64

Border Scot,

07/11/2008 11:12:33
#67 - Many of us do and understamd that to compare multicultural post-industrial Scotland with monocultural, post-agrarian Scandinavian countries or monocultural, post-agrarian Ireland is dishonest in the extreme.
65

Border Scot,

07/11/2008 11:13:48
#69 - I know it by comparing how many votes the Labour candidate got in 2005 and how many he got in 2008. And in 2008 he got more. Labour and the SNP gained their votes from the Tories and the LibDems.
66

,

07/11/2008 11:15:50
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67

Doh,

07/11/2008 11:19:36
#59

A victory for fear over fantasy
68

,

07/11/2008 11:20:46
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69

57vintage,

Keith 07/11/2008 11:23:04
#69

Unless you have the facts to back that up, your statement does not stand.

SNP +13%
Labour +3%
Tory -3%
Libs -10%
Others (sadly) -3%

Show me the ballot area results that prove which way individual votes went and I may start to take you seriously.
70

Solstice,

Fife Scotland 07/11/2008 11:26:30

Do the Glenrothes voters think that now labour has the seat they will stop care charges?? I don't think so! Labour run councils up and down the country charge for these services. This was a slanderous campaign by Labour which was obviously supported by Brown, his bum chum Roy is in teaching, what the hell is dirty play teaching our kids?? I would never teach my kids to slag off others to try and make themselves good. This is exactly what Labour did.
71

,

07/11/2008 11:27:35
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72

Border Scot,

07/11/2008 11:27:46
#76 - Sadly, in Aberdeenshire's world it is not possible fr the SNP to lose a vote unless:
1. There has been electoral fraud
2. The voters are stupid and/or
3. The voters are traitors
73

Border Scot,

07/11/2008 11:28:44
#78 - It was a 5% swing. Both the SNP and Labour gained votes. But because the SNP gained more, there was a swing from Labour to SNP.
74

,

07/11/2008 11:29:04
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,

07/11/2008 11:30:20
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,

07/11/2008 11:30:44
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57vintage,

Keith 07/11/2008 11:32:44
#81

Not possible unless they were already on the existing Electoral Roll which would have been updated months ago. I can't see many of them from elsewhere having holiday chalets in Glenrothes.

Try again or accept that a pretty insignificant by-election the SNP expected to win was lost.
78

,

07/11/2008 11:34:31
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,

07/11/2008 11:36:04
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,

07/11/2008 11:37:33
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81

Border Scot,

07/11/2008 11:39:05
#85 - Labour gained votes.
82

Border Scot,

07/11/2008 11:41:07
#83 - Apologies. I have read your orignal post again and I misunderstood the point you were making
83

,

07/11/2008 11:41:41
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84

Scotsman in Dublin,

07/11/2008 11:46:19
#61, Excellent post and so true. The lack of unbiased journalism is the thorn in the side of democracy all over the world but it seems to be a particular problem in Scotland, as this article is a perfect example of.

Newspapers are the worst example of this. In the UK its accepted which papers are Tory papers and which are Labour papers which makes them nothing better than manifesto's. We criticise the likes of Russia for state control of media but how much better is the west, the only difference is that its control by wealthy owners who have a vested interest in the continuance of the current establishment.
85

57vintage,

Keith 07/11/2008 11:57:07
#86

At polling booths, the civil servants who administer the election check off voter identities against a paper copy of the current Electoral Roll. No IT is used and the data are collected through postal returns and verified through a sample of door-to-door checks.

I'm not sure if you're struggling with this or whether you're just being mischievous.

If it's the former, the system's operation will probably be avilable online somewhere. If the latter, please stop wasting my time.

Thanks now.
86

Churchill W.,

07/11/2008 12:03:45
kofk # 9

Maybe you should take a different "1200" out campaigning next time, that lot turned out to be of little use.
87

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07/11/2008 12:07:10
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88

Churchill W.,

07/11/2008 12:12:13
ANDREW the man !! # 19

There aren't any men in the SNP, they are all Salmond clones.
Did you notice Salmond sent Sturgeon on to plead for them on the BBC (Today programme) this morning. She had the temerity to deny that Salmond had promised that Glenrothes would be his. When selling a bearskin, first catch one bear...!
No snide one-liners from Salmond, they will all be sadly missed.
Ms Sturgeon is positioning herself as Salmond's successor as we speak, but, she is too much of a lightweight, relative to Salmond even, to be FM in Scotland. Where do they go they from here?
89

57vintage,

07/11/2008 12:13:47
#86

In fact, I'm feeling magnanimous today since I've arranged to have the afternoon off, so try this:

http://tinyurl.com/5u559d

I hope it's helpful when you reach voting age.
90

Churchill W.,

07/11/2008 12:16:10
Jwil # 94

"Its a small but unwelcome setback for the SNP."
What would a big setback be like?
Salmond had staked all his political credibility on winning Glenrothes and he has lost it all. Clearly the people of Glenrothes did not like being talked down to by Salmond, nor did they like being taken for granted. I hope that the rump of the SNP will learn that lesson, I know pompous Salmond won't!
91

Edward,

07/11/2008 12:16:57
The difference between the Labour campaign in Glenrothes and the Republicans in the US - None what so ever both campaigned negatively. The differnce between the press in the US and the press in the UK. The US Press will not be cowed and are not bias towards any one party, where as the press in the UK and especially in Scotland are blatently bias
92

resident edinburgh,

07/11/2008 12:20:10
Trust in the people to get it right when the chips are down.
Congratulations to Labour in Glenrothes and to Cammie Day and Labour in the Forth Council bye election victory.
The people do know who to trust and its not Salmond.

93

Churchill W.,

07/11/2008 12:23:33
Edward # 98

I thought the press loved Salmond, didn't they all vote him as Parliamentarian of the year or something recently? It can't be love and hate, which is it?

"Yes We Can," No Salmond, You Can't.
94

57vintage,

Keith 07/11/2008 12:25:28
#98

This is bordering on hysteria.

The SNP have got to where they are by calling into account the record of elected representatives, which is exactly what Sturgeon and others have attempted to criticise Labour for in the by-election.

You cannot have your cake and eat it. The SNP is now part of the political establishment. Salmond himself said before the 2007 election that he wanted to show that the SNP could be a responsible party of government. At the first sign of sustained questioning of its record in power in Fife with the LibDems, the girning starts.

For years the SNP criticised from the dug out. It's now on the pitch and being asked to perform. When local people see for themselves that things aren't working as promised they have the right to take action via the ballot box. This was done yesterday. Welcome to the grown-ups' world.

"A big boy did it and ran away" is no longer a valid excuse.
95

Edward,

07/11/2008 12:26:19
Its sad that the people of Glenrothes were taken in by the lies and negativity of Labour. Hopefully they will start to realise this as Rectum Roy swears the oath at Westminster and slips into oblivion. Just to remind the Glenrothes voter, his stance was to improve buses and roads. I just cant wait when he stands up in Westminster to talk about that - at least I will not be holding my breath!. Or will the voters in Glenrothes realise that care for the elderly charges in Fife is actually being made free to a wider populus and that charges being applied are the same as those applied by Labour councils. Or will they realise that the SNP are actually spending MORE on education, even with Rectum Roys School. Who knows, but it was obvious that the people were duped. This is either a sign of how much Labour controled the press and got there lies over or perhaps the people of Glenrothes just couldnt see the wood from the trees
96

Edward,

07/11/2008 12:30:02
#100 Churchill W & #101 57vintage
Remarkable that you dont deny the media bias that prevailed over the By election
I do not expect the press and TV to go either way with a political party, what I do expect is a very even handed application to news coverage. This just didnt happen. No questions were asked of Laboiur and what they were standing on
97

Fettes,

Edinburgh 07/11/2008 12:31:06
Regardless of last nights result it doesn't change a thing. At the next general election the Tories will form the next government in Westminster and Scotland will be put to the sword as the governing party will have no support up here so nothing to loose. Last night was nothing more than a side show to the main event which will see Labour toppled by the vote in England. Remember what happened the last time the Tories were in charge.
98

salmondella,

England 07/11/2008 12:38:26
#67 aberdeenshire- you miss the point. I highlighted both Ireland and Iceland because they were specifically touted by Salmondon on a regular basis as examples for Scotland to follow under independence. All European countries,including Denmark and Norway are suffering in varying degrees under the global credit crunch - I do not advocate capitalism under the nationalism of the SNP or unionism under Brown but socialism under a planned economy which has the power to directly challenge the anarchy of the market.However, I can understand your defence of Salmond as you well may be in denial about the bye election result - you must demand more from your party.
99

Shaken,

07/11/2008 12:42:35
#97

A big set back would be:

Backing an illegal war
Inhouse members vying for position to take over
Masterminding the worst recssion since WWII
Losing popularity all over the UK (except Glenrothes of course)

They would be big set backs.

How low are your expectations if you get excited about retaining a seat i.e. maintaining the status quo?

Are Labour that depressing a party to support?

Yup Vive la SNP
100

Solstice,

Fife Scotland 07/11/2008 13:37:21
#102 Edward, Well said! I don't think we'll hear much from Roy !
101

Brian Hill,

Edinburgh 07/11/2008 13:39:01
A combination of extra ordinary circumstances and the SNP's failure to nail Labour's daily repeated distortion of an SNP local policy issue lost them this election.

The main lesson for the SNP will be to have a small Rapid Response team dedicated to nailing unionist lies, distortions and half truths as they arise.

The SNP's progress has been slowed by by no means halted.

Perhaps Labour would like to test the 'halted' theory in Motherwell?
102

brownlie,

07/11/2008 13:48:20
92 57vintage

If, as you seem to suggest, the voting system cannot be interfered with, why is it that a judge in Birmingham high-lighted Labour voting fraud and compared it to "a banana republic" with all its connotations.
103

brownlie,

07/11/2008 13:54:42
From remarks following the election is would appear to be clear that voters from both the Tory and Lib-dems voted for Labour and would appear to have been encouraged to do so.

Knowing that their own candidates had no chance they decided to support their unionist chums in order to thwart the SNP.

Menzie Campbell, Lib Dem "Smart Alex has had his come-uppance".

Harry Wills, Lib Dem "The SNP juggernaut has been stopped in its tracks".

Maurice Golden, Tory "It is clear that people are rejecting Salmond".

Not one of the three mentioned Labour.

Despite all that, SNP increased their votes by 13%. Is that a cause for rejoicing by unionists?
104

connaughtboy,

stonehaven 07/11/2008 14:11:22
A really disappointing result. Enjoy it while you can because this seat will be up for grabs again within 18 months. Maybe a lot sooner.
105

Viva Victoria ,

07/11/2008 15:16:23
What it must feel like to be a seperatist today. I guess reality must feel like biting on granite.

Perhaps they realise Scotland will always remain loyal to the Union and whenever the SNP get stronger we will close ranks and vote down independence and send these treasonous traitor home, to think again.

Most SNP voters are uneducated benefit scroungers at best. Council employees at worst. A great many of them have to clean toilets for a living and have drug addictions.

Letting manky SNP voters have money to go and catch STDs in IBIZA twice a year and drive "suped up" small cars for women got us into this financial mess. We should never have trusted the scumbags with our hard earned savings.

The decent Scottish middle-classes who vote against seperation and do all the heavy lifting in this country will always prevail when the independence question arises.
106

brusque,

07/11/2008 15:52:09
Most SNP voters are uneducated benefit scroungers at best. Council employees at worst. A great many of them have to clean toilets for a living and have drug addictions.

I hope you go down your local and say these things to someone's face one day!

For shame that you are so in the thrall of thieves and vagabonds. The Labour party has stolen billions from the UK tax payers, of ALL Political persuasions.

It seems that you protest too much about scroungers Viva. I suspect that is why you have so much time on your hands for posting drivel on a daily basis.
107

Marian,

07/11/2008 16:06:49
Still peddling the 'New Labour can win the next election' line I see. I'm afraid that you are entirely incorrect. There is no possibility, none, that New Labour can win. To win there must be tolerance. That is gone, subsumed in that contemptuous loathing that only the people of the UK, pushed beyond their normal equable fairness, can really manage. And we have been so pushed.

New Labour will be annihilated at the next election. It will lose votes and 'safe' heartland seats to Plaid Cymru in Wales and to the SNP in Scotland. In England the Libdems will take over previously safe New Labour seats in major Northern urban areas; the Tories will take not only the suburbs, the market towns and the rural seats, but will rip England's cities free also. Brown will be very lucky if New Labour retain a hundred seats next time round. I'm sure there will remain a few New Labour tribalists, blinkered and unable to turn from their well-worn path - there are some who post here - but the majority of ex-New Labour voters will vote for someone else For anyone else. Just to get rid of New Labour.

And do you know why all this will happen? Because New Labour have been dishonest with the voters, and they have been found out. That ultimate political sin, that thing above all that we as a nation cannot and will not tolerate. Moreover they have lied to us, not once, but repeatedly for more than a decade. And now all the lies are being exposed. The myth of Brown's economic "genius" is coming tumbling down and the whole shoddy edifice of debt-ridden idiocy is displayed for all of us to see. The crocodilian expressions of concern for social justice are demonstrated as untruths in the cold light of TV recordings. The overbearing authoritarian intrusive 'we know best how you should live your lives' contempt for the citizens is dragged with its monstrous pile of petty paperwork from behind the 'progressive liberal' rhetoric. We see New Labour for what it truly is, for what it has truly done,
108

Marian,

07/11/2008 16:07:16
continued.....

We see New Labour for what it truly is, for what it has truly done, and we don't like it.
109

Shaken,

07/11/2008 16:34:58
#113 well said

Viva thinks she is in a Star Wars film. The separtists indeed - how does it feel to be part of the union federation?

The following statement by Viva underlines why we would never want someone like this to be Pro SNP:

"Letting manky SNP voters have money to go and catch STDs in IBIZA twice a year and drive "suped up" small cars for women got us into this financial mess. We should never have trusted the scumbags with our hard earned savings."

yes because only supporters of the SNP go to Ibiza - not english football hooligans (never haha)

And seriously WTF is driving a 'suped' up car got to do with global economic crisis? EH!

Viva your grasp of economics and global politics would make an American blush. You are a product of this dumbed down labour govt right enough. Well done!

Do you need a manual to switch your alarm off in the morning?
110

57vintage,

Keith 07/11/2008 16:36:46
Brownlie, my old HL adversary, correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't the Brum rigged votes case about postal votes being completed on behalf of elderly/infirm/didna care electors by a councillor or somesuch?

If so, that would have been interference with the papers of voters already on the Roll and not rigging the Roll itself..

My point is that it would be very difficult (and very expensive) to rig the Electoral Roll which was what the original poster was alluding to by saying that bussed in campaigners might register to vote.

Keith v Fraserburgh tomorrow. with the under-bill of 57vintage v brutal whining Broch midfielder Norris in a long-running verbal bout. Better than Salmond v Brooner anyday. Make the journey man!
111

noswod,

Honestas 07/11/2008 16:45:41
If you put up the cost of care for the old folk and adopt crazy policies like the Local Income Tax and closedown infrastructure projects such as the borders railway your out. SNP have acted like Beecham Boris otherwise just like the tories. Vote SNP and you get the poll tax and Tory cuts. SNP had a chance to prove they they where interested in Scotlands long term and in tune with the caring aspects of Scottish culture. However their political naviety has been illustrated. The best way the Scots can get what they want is being part of the UK and to keep on banking the very much higher public spending they have become used to.
112

Yeah1,

07/11/2008 16:58:49
#114

"New Labour will be annihilated at the next election. It will lose votes and 'safe' heartland seats to Plaid Cymru in Wales and to the SNP in Scotland"

Er yes...just like it lost Glenrothes, a safe heartland seat to the SNP yesterday...oh wait...

You seem to be very sure of exactly what will happen at the next election, can you see into the future?

If so, perhaps you should have advised Salmond against making his "we will win" statement...
113

European Scot,

07/11/2008 17:04:52
112 Viva Victoria

" What it must feel like to be a seperatist today "
" Most SNP voters are uneducated benefit scroungers at best. Council employees at worst."

Well VV, I would have to admit that I was once, many years ago, a council employee.
I was employed as a teacher in those days, but I was expected to be educated to a reasonable standard, enough certainly, to be able to spell fairly straightforward words like separatist.
Of course being an SNP supporter, in your little World of stereotypes, this should not be possible.
In the real World. however, what we find are examples of 'well educated' Unionists like you, using words like 'seperatist', which strangely, doesn't seem to be in my Oxford, English dictionary !
When Independence becomes an issue at a referendum, I think that you will find enough decent people, from all classes of Scottish society, who will prevail.
114

European Scot,

07/11/2008 17:08:54
114 / 115 Marian

Good post Marian, well written.
115

Martinh,

07/11/2008 18:02:53
#114-15. Marian, feel better now? If all you say is true, can you explain the Labour victories in the non related elections for council wards in Edinburgh and Glasgow, and according to various blog sites Labour has also been picking up contested wards in England too with big swings to Labour and away from the Tories? Don't forget that the Tories UK wide still have an electoral mountain to climb-after 3 consecutive general elections since 1997, they still have fewer seats than Labour in 1983, and only one in Scotland. There is no Tory revival in Scotland, little evidence of it Wales, and the big cities of northern England are still effectively Tory free zones.

However, you are on your soap box, so nothing I could say would moderate your loathing for Labour. Others more reflective, will remember the minimum wage, working families tax credit, minimum pension guarantee, winter fuel allowance and very generous help given to all over 65s. Given that we are an ageing population, the elderly are an increasingly powerful voting lobby, and judging from what the Tories say that they would do in power many in this category will stick with Labour. Oh I nearly forgot, Labour did deliver devolution as promised,no ifs or buts, they did exactly as they said they would do in their pre 1997 election manifesto. Compare that with the broken SNP promises, and now their populist chickens are coming home to roost- giving money away is easy, but there is a concommitant price to pay elsewhere-hence the home help charges due to the council tax freeze.

Labour may still lose the next general election to the Tories, but the SNP boast of 20 Westminster seats is also now starting to look rather unlikely. The fat controller lost his bet at the bookies, and his smugness will have evaporated with this reality check on his independence ambitions. I reckon he will be lying low on the referendum for a month or so.

116

arc of insolvency,

07/11/2008 18:10:50
WELL DONE GLENROTHES A VICTORY AGAINST SMARM OVER SUBSTANCE.
117

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07/11/2008 21:17:14
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118

BIG EYE,

Paisley 08/11/2008 00:14:46
Bank of Scotland workers can thank the Labour voters of Glenrothes for losing their last chance to save their jobs.

The Northern Territories are back in normal control and Westminster has card blanche to carry on as before.

The SNP will need to learn you can't help people who can help themselves.

I find it hard to believe that the apathetic nature of people to politics still exists despite the history of our country!
119

Tom R,

08/11/2008 02:01:22
#122 Martinh "...can you explain the Labour victories in the non related elections for council wards in Edinburgh and Glasgow..."

This has been pointed out to you by others but you just don't seem to get it so I'll give it a try.

At the May 2007 Council elections the SNP won the largest number of council seats of any party in Scotland.

In both the council seats to which you refer, the Thursday results showed a FURTHER swing to the SNP from 2007 (not 2005 like Glenrothes)

Therefore if the SNP had the same swings as they obtained in these wards on Thursday at the next council elections, there would be a still larger lead for the SNP over the other parties in council seats.

I hope you follow the point I am making!
120

Missbehave (Princess Fiona),

15/11/2008 00:52:00
an extremely week point Tom.
fraid you lost that is that!

vote conservative as an alternative?

 

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