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Russia stalls troop withdrawal

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Published Date: 19 August 2008
MOSCOW last night insisted Russia had begun the promised military pullback from Georgia amid doubts it was honouring the terms of the ceasefire signed on Saturday.
The Russian chief of general staff yesterday told reporters that Russian troops had begun their pullout from the conflict zone, though there was no independent verification of this, and Moscow has consistently declined to set a pullout timetable.

Colonel-General Anatoly Nogovitsyn said: "I cannot give an exact date for the withdrawal of our troops from the conflict area yet. I can only say that we will not be leaving as fast as we came."

Explosions were heard in the Gori area of central Georgia, though there were no reports of fighting.

The White House urged a Russian withdrawal "without delay", the latest in a series of similar appeals which have had no visible impact.

A senior US official said there were no signs yet that the Russian forces had begun to leave, while Georgia claimed Russia was broadening its presence.

Giga Bokeria, the deputy foreign minister said: "Quite the opposite. They are spreading out to other regions."

Georgia also accused the Kremlin's forces of blowing up its weapons and ammunition dumps near the western town of Senaki as they withdrew.

Shota Utiashvili, an interior ministry official, said: "They are destroying everything and then pulling out of these places.

"If they call this a pull-out, then I do not understand the meaning of the word."

Another Washington source claimed Russia was moving short-range missiles into South Ossetia.

However, Russian commanders accused Georgia of wrecking a planned prisoner exchange and continuing to mount isolated sniper and sabotage attacks on its positions.

Col-Gen Nogovitsyn said: "We are aware that the Georgian side can undertake provocative actions at any moment against our troops as well as the civilians."

Russia's crushing defeat of Georgia, its first military campaign outside its borders since the 1991 collapse of the Soviet Union, has damaged ties with Washington and raised concerns over the stability of a key oil and gas transit state.

Russia responded with overwhelming force after Georgia sent its military on 7 August to try to recapture the rebel, Moscow-backed, province of South Ossetia.

In a show of defiance, Dmitry Medvedev, the Russian president, said: "If anyone thinks that they can kill our citizens and escape unpunished, we will never allow this. If anyone tries this again, we will come out with a crushing response. We have all the necessary resources, political, economic and military."

He later flew to Vladikavkaz, near the border of the conflict zone of South Ossetia, to present medals to soldiers who took part in the ten-day operation.

The United Nations said a first-aid convoy managed to enter Gori on Sunday and that, while buildings did not appear to be badly damaged, there were "clear signs of massive looting".

The International Committee of the Red Cross complained that its president had not been given access to South Ossetia for a fact-finding mission.

David Miliband, the Foreign Secretary, is to visit Georgia tomorrow, after a meeting in Brussels with his Nato counterparts.





Page 1 of 1

  • Last Updated: 18 August 2008 10:05 PM
  • Source: The Scotsman
  • Location: Edinburgh
  • Related Topics: Russia , Georgia
 
1

KampungHighlander,

Jakarta 19/08/2008 00:32:28
The Russian Promised Withdrawal.

Nyet Again.

This certainly makes Angela Merkel and Nicholas Sarkozy look like a pair of fools.

Imagine, going to Moscow and accepting the promises of Medvedev. They would have been better negotiating with Yuri, the Kremlin washroom attendant.

Even the ostriches in France, Germany and Italy are starting to realize that the Russians are not economic partners, they are a threat to western europe.

Putins Gamble, will be his undoing, Poland has already agrreed to deploy ABM's.

At NATO's meeting in December Ukraine and Georgia will get fast tracked membership plans.

NATO which up to now did not base any troops in Eastern Europe will decide to deploy its forces in the frontline members states to deter Russian aggression.

Everything Putin did not want will now come true.

You Russians have got yourself a real master strategist.

Is it because he suffers from short man complex like Napolean that he is prone to unthinking aggression?
2

Andrew BOD,

Aberdeen/shire 19/08/2008 01:08:13
In a show of defiance, Dmitry Medvedev, the Russian president, said: "If anyone thinks that they can kill our citizens and escape unpunished, we will never allow this. If anyone tries this again, we will come out with a crushing response. We have all the necessary resources, political, economic and military."

You can forget the 'political' part of it. You gave that up with your planned attack and continued occupation.
3

,

19/08/2008 01:49:49
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
4

KampungHighlander,

Jakarta 19/08/2008 02:34:07
#4 Joe:

"I bet the Media controlled in the Russian area will be different from ours, as it was when East Germany and West Germany were all, well... not the same :)"

By well...not the same, are you talking about when the people in East Germany lived under the Soviet Jackboot?
Led by the evil little dictator Eric Hoencker? Is that what you are talking about? Of course back then the East Germans got the truth from their state controlled media while we in the west where fed lies by all the independant news organizations.

I just love the idiot membership of the lefty looney brigade. When the facts as reported by independant media don't match their twisted world view they claim its all propoganda and a great conspiricy.

5

Pilrig.,

Livingston 19/08/2008 05:55:57
4 - and Putin is a benevolent character ?

5 - a large number of the 'independent' sources are controlled by Murdoch.
6

Pilrig.,

Livingston 19/08/2008 05:57:20
1 - Napoleon was of medium height actually. According to Paul Johnston's biography of him.
7

KampungHighlander,

19/08/2008 07:25:04
#6 Pilrig

"a large number of the 'independent' sources are controlled by Murdoch"

Yes he does own a lot of media, in the UK he own the News Of The World, The Sun and The Times.

US Papers, The Wall Street Journal and New York Post.

Australian Titles include The Australian, The Herald Sun, The Daily Telegraph as well as a host of regional papers.

He also owns The Sky Network of TV channels as well as the Fox channels and a minority stake (17.5%) in ITV.

A large list, but still not a dominant share of media. To claim that western media is controled by one person or group is disingenous. There is enough competition between various outlets to break the next big story that the truth does come out.





8

KampungHighlander,

Jakarta 19/08/2008 07:27:31
#7

"Napoleon was of medium height actually. According to Paul Johnston's biography of him"

I am sure Putins biographer will claim the same thing.
9

Boy Wonder,

19/08/2008 07:30:25
Russia will push all of its smaller neighbours into NATO now! Not one of the former Soviet satellites wants to be ruled from the Kremlin again. Putin has just made his first mistake if he doesn't withdraw completely.
10

Piotr,

Warsaw 19/08/2008 08:45:53
#10 Even Belarus' Lukashenko that seemed to be a die-hard Russian ally makes impression that he might change his ways.
11

McGinty,

19/08/2008 09:10:14
So sad. Watched Solzhenitsyn's homecoming last night, and there was so much hope, optimism, honesty, humility and realism, although some suggested Russia hadn't changed, and that the same old KGB thugs were in charge. Unfortunately, fourteen years later, it seems that they may well be right. One feels for ordinary Russians who question their legitimacy and their outrages but yet are silenced and feel powerless to speak out, while the lies, deceit and sabre-rattling of the loud and belligerent apologists go across the world.
12

Rosscobhoy,

19/08/2008 10:24:53
I fail to see how anyone from the US or the UK can demand the Russians leave South Ossetia while we still have troops in Iraq and Afghanistan.
13

tomislav,

Home 19/08/2008 10:33:13
When Bush was asked why was he so keen to get them out of Georgia he answered in his blissfull stupidy "Y'all are not thinking, if we don't stop them in Georgia, they will be in South Carolina in a week"
14

tomislav,

Home 19/08/2008 10:45:19
13. Hey Rossco yer right ,,,, I seem to remember a few years ago when them half million smelly Russians were in Afghanistan not only were we screaming at them to get out, we were actually providng their enemies (now ours) with weapons!!!!! Can you imagine what we would do if they started to do the same!!!!! mind you we will sort it out with our 10,000 Brit squaddies, its doesnt matter that both the half million Russian troops and then the good old US of A Marine Corp couldnt, because even although the Yanks have tougher looking uniforms and stuff, we march better and dont drink so much coka cola, vodka or eat to many of they wee twinkys
15

Neil,

Glasgow 19/08/2008 10:56:46
We have had repeated accusations, day by day, from our media, inclyding the Scotsman, that the Russians were, under cover of the ceasefire, continuing to advance. This would have been credible to the most foolish journakust, only if Russia had needed any cover to advance. If our media were telling the truth the Russian "asvance" would now have occupied the whole country.

Until our media make an open apology for promoting that stupid propaganda lie it will be impossible to believe they are not lying now.

Good point #15. I had not thought of that previously but it also applies to Iran. The US has admitted to pumping $400 million into supporting yerrorists (sorry freedom fighters) in Iran & Iran has a direct border with Afghanistan.
16

Deadpan,

19/08/2008 10:59:04
#13

Maybe because the Iraqi and Afghan governments want the foreign troops to stay until their forces are able to cope by themselves whereas the Georgian government wants the Russians out?

(And I'm not an apologist for the US, the invasion of Iraq was wrong but that doesn't make any difference to the reality on the ground now).
17

KampungHighlander,

Jakarta 19/08/2008 11:24:58
#17 Deadpan

It is not just Georgia that wants the Russians out. It is just about every country on the planet, bar Cuba.

Cuba is the only country that has offered any statement in support of the Russian Invasion.

Even the Swedes, who are not members of NATO have broken off joint military exercises in protest at the Russian aggression.



18

Eastbourne Bob,

Christchurch, NZ 19/08/2008 11:33:00
Russia, of course, went to the Security Council first. Because Britain and America wanted "their" guy to win, they refused to act.

As for the "idiot membership of the lefty looney brigade", please may I point out that American conservatives have developed a powerful critique of American foreign policy. Here is a small sample -

William Grigg argues (at http://www.freedominourtime.blogspot.com/):

"The unpalatable reality of our present circumstances is this: Putin's Russia, in domestic terms, still displays many of the traits of its Soviet past -- but it is the regime in Washington that is carrying out a truly Soviet-style foreign policy. Moscow doesn't seek to build an ideological empire run by a vast army of apparatchiks and puppet rulers. Washington manifestly does." (Back In the USSA, Sunday, August 17, 2008)

The strategist William S. Lind advises "George, Stay Out of Georgia" at http://www.lewrockwell.com/lind/lind145.html

Pat Buchanan asks "Who Started Cold War II?" at http://www.lewrockwell.com/buchanan/buchanan94.html

Two of Paul Craig Roberts' many articles are:

"From Stupid to Moronic to Evil" at http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article20483.htm
and
"Will American Insouciance Destroy the World?" at http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article20507.htm

Eric Margolis asks "What Were They Smoking in the White House?" at http://www.lewrockwell.com/margolis/margolis120.html
19

John Lawson,

Toronto 19/08/2008 12:46:59
According to Putin’s school teacher, he was a very capable student. The young boy decided to devise a plan to outsmart his teacher. Young Putin devised a question, which his school teacher should be able to answer.

During recess he went looking for a butterfly. He caught the most beautiful butterfly and hid it between the palms of his hands.

As young Putin was returning to the classroom, the butterfly was clinging to his hand with its legs. The butterfly’s tickling caused the young boy to smile as he approached his teacher’s desk. He asked her, “tell me, what kind of butterfly is in my hands, one that is alive or one that is dead?”

Young Putin had a firm grip on the butterfly as we awaited his teacher’s answer. He was prepared for her answer. He was ready to squash the butterfly or to let it live, depending on his teacher’s answer. Looking straight into the boy’s eyes and not at his hands, she replied, “All is in your hands.”





20

KampungHighlander,

Jakarta 19/08/2008 12:50:11
#18

"As for the "idiot membership of the lefty looney brigade", please may I point out that American conservatives have developed a powerful critique of American foreign policy. Here is a small sample"

I looked at your links, it seems I should amend that to " idiot membership of the lefty looney brigade and the raving retards of the american right".

You both have more in common than most people realize, you both cling to ridiculous conspiracy theories unsupported by any facts.

Though I doubt many of the left wing loonies will agree with this article about how "Negroes" ruined the city of Detriot.

http://www.lewrockwell.com/peters/peters24.html

Or this anti catholic pod cast

http://www.lewrockwell.com/podcast/?p=episode&name=2008-08-18_022_is_catholicism_anticapitalist.mp3

I think the proper term for the affliction you both share is Paranoid Schizophrenia. See a doctor and get help.

Who knows with the proper medication you may loose the urge to vote for Ron Paul.

21

Neil,

Glasgow 19/08/2008 13:44:36
Deadpan says "Maybe because the Iraqi and Afghan governments want the foreign troops to stay until their forces are able to cope by themselves whereas the Georgian government wants the Russians out?"

which I assume is deadpan humour since what it proves is that we occupied both countries & appointed their "governments". Had Putin decided to appoint a new Georgian government it would doubtless have asked the Russians to stay too.
22

Eastbourne Bob,

Christchurch, NZ 19/08/2008 14:11:15
Er, yes, Kampung, please explain the connection between Detroit Negroes, Catholicism, and US foreign policy. Those essays are reprinted in lots of other places, you know.

If you looked at Lind's archive, you would find a careful working out of his theory of Fourth Generation warfare. Roberts was in Reagan's Treasury, supported George Bush in 2000, only to become radically disenchanted with the destruction of his country's Constitution, and is now voting for Obama. Margolis has been a foreign correspondent for well over a generation. Grigg's focus is on the warfare state, and the destruction of American civil liberties (there are very specific evamples further down that page). Buchanan needs no introduction.

Obviously, such heavy hitters can't compete with the alliterative toadies of Highland Jakarta.

I had to laugh, though. Which political system used to label people it disagreed with as mentally ill? And you've gone one better, with guilt by accidental association. Rather proves Grigg's point, doesn't it?

Good night.
23

KampungHighlander,

Jakarta 19/08/2008 14:11:42
#23

"which I assume is deadpan humour since what it proves is that we occupied both countries & appointed their "governments"."

Both Governments were elected not appointed. The Georgian government was also elected, that it why they have legitimacy.

So even if the Russians toppled Sakasvili and appointed a sychophant it would not have any legitimacy in the eyes of the rest of the international community.
24

KampungHighlander,

Jakarta 19/08/2008 14:27:16
#24

"Er, yes, Kampung, please explain the connection between Detroit Negroes, Catholicism, and US foreign policy. Those essays are reprinted in lots of other places, you know."

You placed all those link to the Lew Rockwell blog, which seems to have a particular Political Philosophy.

It seems to me that you are much more familiar with this particular world view, perhaps you could explain the link between these foreign policy arguments and the racsist and sectarian views that inhabit the same site.
25

Griffe,

19/08/2008 15:13:14
There is only one way to deal with belligerent bullies that is to stanb up to them and call their bluff. NATO needs to get its act together and tell Russia of the consequencies of not withdrawing immediately, faster than it came.
26

Eastbourne Bob,

Christchurch, NZ 19/08/2008 16:14:14
Gosh, Kampung, you've got me!

Some American conservatives actually seek out different points of view. The Lew Rockwell umbrella site includes Chris Floyd, John Pilger, Arthur Silber, Glenn Greenwald, Tom Engelhardt, and dozens of others. And they, in turn, often return the favour. And we can read them regardless of political affiliation!

Exchange of views? Democracy in action? Can't have that.

No wonder you love the Georgian government.
27

Neil,

Glasgow 19/08/2008 16:33:43
Kampung knows perfectly well that the Georigian election was bought & paid for by hundres of millions of $ drom the CIA. While the Iraqi & Afghan "elections" took place under the watchful bayonet of the US.
28

Gwnefyr,

Pasific 19/08/2008 17:26:21
Ha ha! There is no islamic fanatics material available here now,is there? They tried to implant some Chechens about,it didn't work.Both Abxazians and Ossetians are christians.They had to be made fight with something.Looking at their map,Georgia crawled into Ossetia,looping it all round.Will Russia "smoothen" those fringes to please US?Entire show is to pile up armies,supplies,keep the local nations as Abxazians, Ossetians or Georgians who lived on their ancient lands at peace with eachother,until US & short sighted allies of it presented smaller/yet more ancient countries as "regions" to Georgia to keep Georgians busy with racial fights as much as Abxazians and Ossetians,who are very independent minded heroic nationals very busy in fight,while 1000 US or etc. companies rob their lands.Getlemen,we all are one planet's citizens.We all are humans.Please,save the world for a change!Don't ruin lives for fancy!
29

Gwnefyr,

Pasific 19/08/2008 17:39:09
Russia did what US wanted it to do since the dissolving of the Soviet Union so far.But the recent Russian showdown was over exagerrated beyond the expectations of the US & West.Russia inflated the invasion in excuse of a barbarian Georgian attack on it's "passport holders" by the Puppet Government of Georgia,Russi a wild "bear" ripping off all the surrounding as all got stampeeded on it's way..Busy hybernating for a few weeks?Or is this the new "economical solution" for russia by the West?
30

Capital Son,

Out There 19/08/2008 17:44:31
[The Ranch, Crawford, Texas August 19th 2008. Phone rings …. ]

Bush: Hi, That you Laura? Did you get the Jiffy Peanut Butter?

Rice: Condi here.

Bush: Yo, Wassup Condi?

Condi: Mr. President, I’m in Georgia.

Bush: Great… visiting the family? How they doing?

Condi: I am meeting with Mr. Saakashvili…

Bush: Hey, Shali? Now he was a great General – did a bang up job for my Dad in the first Gulf War. He retired from the military now?

Condi: Mr. Saakashvili, Mr. President, is the President of Georgia.

Bush: I thought I was the President of Georgia…. and Alabama and Tennessee and…

Condi: Mr. President, I’m in the former Soviet Republic of Georgia, on the Black Sea.

Bush: uh?

Condi: So – here’s the deal - the Russians have sent in their military and occupied the country and they say they will stay here as long as needed….

Bush: Hmmm, I think I’ve heard that somewhere before …

Condi: They say that their national security was threatened by this rogue nation which was persecuting their citizens and was about to obtain “weapons of mass destruction” from another nation, and so they had to launch a pre-emptive strike…

Bush: Wo…Shock and Awe!....

Condi: Mr. President, we are looking like a laughing stock on the world stage right now. We cannot condemn Russia for doing what we did….

Bush: Uhh?

Condi: Mr. President, we have to take a stand over the invasion of a sovereign nation. We have to support its territorial integrity.

Bush: Damn straight! We can’t have world powers invading other countries just ‘cause they don’t like the look of their leadership.
Condi: Yes. Mr. President.

Bush: Maybe I need to talk to Chainman about this and find out what I need to do. Hey… I got some brush to cut out here on the north pasture… talk to you later …. Have fun in Georgia. He, he, he…What about them Braves, eh? I reckon they’re gonna make the playoffs this year.

[Click].

31

henrymanchester,

UK 19/08/2008 23:54:31
We are now seeing the results of Bush and Blair's failed adventurism policies.

An overstretched and impotent NATO, a European Union dependent on Russian fuel and a world that views the west as just as bad as Russia and China due to the illegal invasion or Iraq.

Well Gee Wizz, thanks G.W. Don't forget we forgot you either Blair, hiding in New York.
32

Gulliver,

Harare 20/08/2008 10:51:44
The western notion that they (EU, US, NATO) are some "prefect" over other nations is highly deplorable as it causes other people to act in ways that do not benefit anyone. Russia's apparent stubborness may simply be a reaction to the way in which the West through people like Rice appear as if they are the world policemen and can talk-down and make demands to other sovereign states.

I do not support the invasion of independent countries and clearly it is unfortunate that Russia has had to go that route. However, if the claims (which haven't been denied) are true that Georgian forces tried to militarily recapture a province that had broken away for more than a DECADE and in the process killed many Russian civilians then surely what was to be expected? Israel is apparently doing an almost similar thing time and again yet we do not get this kind of strong-worded reaction coming from NATO, the US or the EU.

Uganda and Rwanda invaded the DRC in 1998 yet it was the countries that came to the DRC's defense to protect the country's territorial integrity, notably Zimbabwe, that were treated as villains!! Zimbabwe's actions had been consistent as it was chairing the UN Security Council that condemned Saddam during his invasion of Kuwait during Gulf War I.

The US and its allies should be principled and not apply double-standards when dealing with other nations. A reckless western foreign policy is the biggest threat to world peace in the 21st century- not Al Qaeda, not the Taliban or Iran, it is the West with it's chief instigator- the US!
33

Gulliver,

Harare 20/08/2008 12:31:07
# 34 Correction- Paragraph 3

For the purposes of clarity it was Zimbabwe which was chairing the UN Security council at the time the UN Resolution was passed to attack Iraq. At the time of the DRC war Zimbabwe was chairing the SADC organ on politics and defense.
34

Tussler,

19/07/2009 17:04:50
Take your time Russia Georgia is going nowhere.

 

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