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Families head to court in fight to end disruption of anti-Trident protests

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Published Date:
05 June 2007
Parents seek court order against protesters over schooling disruption Legal case would balance rights of child with the rights of the protesters 76% of Scots would rather see money for Trident spent on public services
Key quote
"We asked the protesters to stay off the road for the duration of the exams. The kids were severely disrupted. We've put up with the peace camp for 25 years, but this has gone too far." - IAN TODD

Story in full FAMILIES who have endured 25 years of disruption from anti-nuclear protesters at Faslane are to go to court to prevent the peace campaigners from bringing chaos to their daily lives.

Lawyers acting for residents on the Rosneath Peninsula are seeking a court order against protesters who blockade the road and prevent school buses from passing the nuclear submarine base.

Members of the Peninsula 24 Seven group believe the demonstrators are breaching the Human Rights Act by denying their children their right to education.

Ian Todd, whose son Alasdair, 15, is among those affected, said almost 100 youngsters have been unable to get to school, while others were 45 minutes late for their exams. "We live in Rosneath, about seven miles from Faslane. The roads were blocked during the prelim exams for Standard Grades," he said.

"We asked the protesters to stay off the road for the duration of the exams. The kids were severely disrupted. We've put up with the peace camp for 25 years, but this has gone too far."

The original Faslane Peace Camp was set up in 1982 in protest against the government's decision to base the country's Trident nuclear submarine fleet there. There have been numerous large-scale protests and several high-profile arrests, including those of politicians Tommy Sheridan and George Galloway.

However, last year, news of Whitehall's decision to renew the multi-billion-pound defence plan prompted the creation of a new and more vociferous anti-nuclear group.

Called the 365 Project, the aim was to hold a year-long protest outside the base.

Linda Gallagher, 44, from Rosneath, said she and her daughter, Kasey, 14, were being treated like political prisoners because of the actions of the protesters.

Her youngest child takes the school bus to Hermitage Academy in Helensburgh, but is often late for school or misses it completely because of the blockades.

Ms Gallagher said: "Ironically, I don't want nuclear weapons and I agree with their right to protest, but I do not think they should block the road.

"In a democracy, you vote at the ballot box, not by blocking the road.

"These people are very selfish. My daughter has missed school completely and has been late for school on numerous occasions. This has been on and off for six months."

The protesters, who glue or chain themselves to the road outside the naval base, bring traffic to a halt and affect hundreds of residents en route to work in Helensburgh and Glasgow.

Those worst affected live in villages on the Rosneath Peninsula in Argyll and Bute. When the road is closed, they are forced to take a 25-minute detour along the A817 Haul Road to Loch Lomond, then back along the A82 before joining the A818 to Helensburgh.

Yesterday, a number of residents met procurators-fiscal and Jackie Baillie, the MSP for Dumbarton, to discuss the problem. Cameron Fyfe, the lawyer representing the parents, said he would use one of the children as a test case and seek compensation for disruption to their studies.

He said: "When these people glue themselves to the road, they are acting unlawfully. It takes four hours to reopen the road.

"We'd seek an interim interdict for a court order against them protesting in such a way that it interferes with the child's education.

"The damage to the children's education could be significant. The courts would have to balance the rights of the child with the rights of the protesters."

In April, residents who live near the submarine base on the Clyde launched a protest against disruption caused by demonstrators. More than 100 residents from Garelochhead marched to the Faslane Naval Base to complain that action by anti-Trident protesters often leads to the A814 road to the village being closed.

Many people have been prevented from going to work by the road blockages and other demonstrations. Since 1 October, protesters have gathered at the base in opposition to nuclear missiles and submarines as part of the Faslane 365 campaign.

Matt Bury, a resident at the peace camp and member of the 365 campaign, said:

"They [locals] say it causes disruption, but it's not every day that we're doing the blockade.

"Our aim is not to disrupt the local community.

"However, this is the home base for Britain's nuclear weapons system and this is a cause that needs to be kept on the agenda."

In February, political, church and union leaders joined forces at a rally to put pressure on the government to ditch the Trident nuclear weapons system.

About 1,000 protesters joined the demonstration in Glasgow calling for plans to update the submarine-based system to be abandoned.

The event, tied in with an anti-war and anti-nuclear rally in London's Trafalgar Square, came as a poll found that 76 per cent of Scots would rather see money for Trident spent on public services.

'EVERY DAY IS IMPORTANT. IT'S UNACCEPTABLE MY SON SHOULD MISS ONE DAY OF SCHOOL'


WHEN Ian Todd heard his son's trembling voice on the phone, he knew that something was wrong.

Fifteen-year-old Alasdair, who has learning difficulties, was among the 100 children in Argyll and Bute who were left "home alone" because the school bus had been turned back by protesters at Faslane.

While many teenagers welcome the idea of a day off school, Alasdair was upset and confused. "Alasdair has an auditory memory problem," explained Mr Todd, 47. "Obviously, I was really concerned when I realised he couldn't get to school.

"I was stuck at work in Edinburgh and when he rang he sounded quite upset.

"He gets quite emotional because of his learning difficulties. When I realised he was left alone in the house, I was worried."

Like his school friends on the Rosneath Peninsula, Alasdair was prevented from getting to Hermitage Academy in Helensburgh by the actions of the demonstrators who closed the road on 28 March.

Now, after 25 years of disruption to his everyday life with frequent blockades, Mr Todd has had enough.

"My son needs more help at school, not less. Every day is important to him and it's unacceptable that he should miss even one day of school.

"I have a legal obligation to get my child to school and if I don't do that I could be taken to court. Why should these people be allowed to disrupt our lives and think they are above the law?"

Mr Todd, who lives in Rosneath, said he is deeply concerned about the effect on younger children who are unable to get to school. "We're finding teachers cannot get to school when the road is blocked.

"There are younger children, 12-year-olds, who are being left home alone because of all of this.

"This is no way to treat children.

"In my view, these protesters are selfish people; they don't give a damn about the community."

Page 1 of 1

  • Last Updated: 05 June 2007 8:32 AM
  • Source: The Scotsman
  • Location: Edinburgh
  • Related Topics: Nuclear defence , Faslane
 
1

Kitti Kat,

05/06/2007 00:34:54

The protesterse should get jobs ! Who pays their way while they disrupt people's lives? They are nothing but lazy, selfish idiots. If they aren't uneducated, they have fooled me. Educated people would not keep children from school---no matter what. Good luck to all the people who have been affected by these selfish people.

2

William of Liberton,

05/06/2007 01:44:38

A rather odd case of nimbyism! Most people would object to having weapons of mass destruction in their backyard, but here the objectors are complaining about those who object to said weapons.

3

W Smith,

Middle East 05/06/2007 04:03:49

What does Alex Salmond and his marxist mates in CND have to say about this then?

We've been listening to these nutters going on and on about muslim rights, gay adoption rights, rights for terrorists in Guatanamo Bay, etc.

The 'trouble' with these people who are now complaining is that they actually work for a living, pay their taxes, and don't cause trouble!

So free speech and human rights is only for communists, catholics who support the IRA, and muslim fanatics then - eh?

Why don't we let the protestors set up camp in Salmond's or Sheridan's back yard.

After all, to protest against capitalism you don't have to camp next to the ATM machine - correct?

4

Mcsnagpile,

S.E.A 05/06/2007 05:51:25

Nuclear deterrents are prefered weapons not only for Capitalists but also Marxists, Moslems, Jews, Uncle Tom Cobbly. The truth is most power mad politicians love weapons of mass destruction. A nuclear deterrent against Russia today is not against Marxism, as Marxist philosophy as been redundant and in general decline for some while.

CND are not political, they believe in humanity in an inhuman Trident world.

5

BK,

Cyberspace 05/06/2007 05:51:44

Perhaps they should address the real issue - the root cause of the disruption. If evil men in London had not based these WMDs in a country where they are not wanted, no disruption would have occured. Blame these warmongers and hypocrites who want these obscenities, as long as they are on someioone ele's doorstep and not their own.

6

Erse,

Middle East 05/06/2007 06:11:20

#1, Kitti Kat

The taxpayers pay their way. They can sign on using the peace camp as their fixed abode!

7

Paul Spencer,

Glasgow 05/06/2007 06:38:51

Its amazing that we supposedly have a government that is trying to crack down on folk being on benefits, and we have this bunch of lawless scroungers selfishly disrupting local folks right of way and indeed the right to earn a living, perhaps somebody could have a word with the DWP and stop their benefits, perhaps a bit of real poverty would expose the poverty of their cause, like it or not Polaris and Trident have kept the balance of power thro the uncomfortable doctrine of MAD

8

Cant use my name anymore-Alex,

Prisoner of the Machine 05/06/2007 06:46:45

They are exercising the right to protest and its a huge pity that more of the pathetic sheep in this country didnt use it. They are not selfish either, they are doing this for us all. If the kittiKats ( no 1) of the world had their way, we would still have kids up chimneys, slaves, and women wouldnt have the vote.

9

Ichabod,

05/06/2007 06:48:32

I do not believe these protesters care about nuclear weapons. They do enjoy a cause however, any cause will do, and the suffering of anyone else is irrelevant to them.
Protests should contain a limited number of around 20, imposing no problem on those living in that region.

If these folks really cared they would go out and do something positive, this is just a game. Pretending they are attacking authority, playing at rebels. It's easier than having to actually live a life.

10

12345,

05/06/2007 07:06:38

#8 - they are most certainly not doing this for us all. They do not represent my views - my sympathies, like I believe those of many decent people, lie with the poor families who have to tolerate the daily disruption caused by these lawbreakers.

11

toryheaven.blogspot.com,

Edinburgh 05/06/2007 07:21:35

Had it been left to CND and the type of people protesting against the Faslane base, Britain would have given up its nuclear weapons in the 1980s, leaving the US to stand alone against the Soviet threat. That would have achieved nothing but the cotinued shoring up of the Soviet regime, with perhaps the fall of Communism in the East coming later than it did. Of course, the anti-nuclear lobby will not recognise this, but it is a simple fact of life that nuclear weapons, however unpleasant they are, are the surest way to face down an international bully and to provide for national security.

Well done the Faslane residents for opposing these hippies. Those protesting at Faslane, like Greenham Common before them, making a living out of doing so at the taxpayers' expense, while achieving nothing positive (or worse, undermining national security).

12

tirty,

05/06/2007 07:44:09

#8 you really are something else, where are you protesting at this moment in time, other than expressing derisory remarks against peole with a different view point to the one you that you hold. Freedom of speech still applies in this kingdom as does freedom of thought and fredom of expression. The sheep you allude to very well hold with the views of the protestors aginst the nuclear deterrant but they have the right to go about their daily lives without the disruptions they are reported as having.

13

conservative,

05/06/2007 07:58:00

#1 you have it exactly. These protesters are a collection of worthless, workshy selfish idiots. They are bound to realise by now that this kind of 'protest' achieves absolutely nothing that routine letters in the newspapers and lobbying of MPs and MSPs wouldn't do better. It is simply a lifestyle paid for by the people whom they do their utmost to inconvenience.

14

DMK,

Livi 05/06/2007 08:02:27

Protest is fine, as said in the text most people in Scotland want rid of Trident, this is reflected in the vote for our parliament, though we don't have much say in this reserved issue.

However, preventing residents who have NOTHING to do with the base or the argument from going about their business is selfish. They may sympathise with the protesters aims, as many do, but when kids are put at risk by the immediate issue of being left at home alone or missing schooling, the longer-term issue of Faslane is lessened and the protesters LOSE important support.

Mind you as most of them are English they will have had their exam schedule in mind which is a month later ;)

15

jennie,

inverness 05/06/2007 08:04:08

#2 -right on! I've driven past Faslane - it is a hideous excrescence on the landscape and if it were to have to apply for planning permission right now there is no way in the world anyone would be allowed to build something like that. Get rid of it now, First Minister!

16

hibbydoug,

edinburgh 05/06/2007 08:13:15

We have lived in the longest peactime in history thanks to nuclear weapons, people should look at their history books and see where weakness gets you! bring on the missiles. I suppose they will all be on benefits as well-how can they be looking for work when they are chained to railings, wave a few bars of soap in front of them -that would get rid of them.

17

,

05/06/2007 08:14:58
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
18

Firozali A.Mulla MBA PhD,

Dar-Es-Salaam Tanzania 05/06/2007 08:22:09

Anti-nuclear campaigners are tackled by police outside the Faslane naval base. Picture: PA
Good Photograph of freedom of speech. Thank you. Now to Trident. Is this not the big baby Mr. Tony Blaire created then now he is out? He wants Bush to build the shield. So he says after his trip to South Africa, then he is angry at Bush at the not in line with the global agreement.
Putin says USA is building the Nuke shield in California and over the Europe so no on can attack. He is only afraid of Putin because this Putin is made from different Russian blood not the USSR that was.
What I do not understand is Mr. Bush wants to have his way. He wants the World Bank manager, he wants to veto the Somalis that are dd., he wants to hang Saddam, he wants the oil (but does not show, just siphons, the UK papers states there are million of barrels lost everyday, daily. Who steals them? Iraqis, Sunnis, Shia, Kurds, Baths?
Then we come with Trident issue. Mr. Blaire want this but does not want to admit that he has this, Israle can build weapond but Iran for peace poposes "NO SIR", We do not trustr Mullahs. Dr. Rice says the choppers are moving in the Gulf for the sake of the kids. They will say," USA is bringing new black hawk and Knight Cars that go remote control.
The world id screaming about the melting snow.
We have yet another issue. War head. Why would have them and who can hide this is say look I don’t have them. While Germany gets heated up. The youths take the beating.
Boy I see this in TV and I say. Bush has certainly with Tony messed the world. Now Putin steps in to stop them.
Christians are to be taught that the pope would and should wish to give of his own money, even though he had to sell the basilica of St. Peter, to many of those from whom certain hawkers of indulgences cajole money.
Martin Luther

Even if I knew that tomorrow the world would go to pieces, I would still plant my apple tree.
Mar

19

morris,

Edinburgh 05/06/2007 08:51:37

Its not the protesters which threaten Scotland's security,its the Trident missiles which should be removed,and the idiots who support it!
We live in a country who don't want to run their own affairs,want nuclear waste dumped all over the shop,welcome a concentration of nuclear weapons which guarantee that, if ever we are foolish enough to start another war, Glasgow ,followed by the rest of Scotland will be oblivious to the fact,mostly because they were wiped off the face of the planet before any other.IN the meantime, we should avoid renewable energy, which is clean, safe and permanent,and instead risk nuclear generation which even when they control to satisfactory levels, (and Im being generous here)they will still eventually run out of places to dump the waste, and it will accumulate for thousands of years,provided we can guarantee there will never again be an earth tremor.Otherwise we have invented the fully automatic time bomb,another Scottish first! Sounds pretty good to me !
Maybe Westminster should suggest that we all swim accross the Forth (but still pay the tolls)Judging by Scotlands show of common sense to date, this would be very popular.
You are being used you muppets!
At least muppets have to be manipulated,You lot volunteer to be stupid.

20

Bored,

05/06/2007 09:06:29

Quite a few posters appear to be missing the point here. This is not about peoples right to protest against trident. Or the fact that Trident even exists. This is about the disruption caused to local people over the pst 25 years. By all means, make your case, but to disrupt local people who have no connection with the base is wrong. Very wrong is the school bus being prevented from picking up children on the 28th March. In doing this the demonstrators are showing selfishness, ignorance and total disregard for others. This leads me to ask, in who's name are they protesting?

21

TheGlaswegian,

Edinburgh - we don't need no stinkin' trams 05/06/2007 09:15:23

I've no problem with the protesters doing their thing - we need people like them to highlight issues large numbers of us feel strongly about. However, they really ought to let the kids get to school without delay, exam time or not. If it was my kids, I'd be quick to arrange direct action against them…I'm sure they'd be ok with that.

22

Hadrian,

05/06/2007 09:22:11

By harassing the residents of Rosneath Peninsula by depriving the kids of their schooling, the protesters have got their column inches of publicity for their 'cause',they dont give a damn for the residents.
The 'cause' is all, who cares if it inconveniences a few people, so what is 25 years!
Dont they care about ruining other peoples lives?
The attitude of the 'peace' camp inhabitants to the locals, seems exactly the same as the people responsible for putting nukes into the area, they deserve each other, so why not take their 'piece' camp back to Westminster or Whitehall and leave us in peace.
They would get more publicity,before and after they got 'lifted'.

23

iainruadh,

Cloven 05/06/2007 09:25:46

I am against Trident but the way to stop it is thorugh an elected Scottish Government refusing to allow it which we now have. The Faslane protestors are mainly unemployed unwashed English who care nothing about Scotland or its people. Would a few Molotov cocktails be too difficult to arrange? Does Rentakill not do Sasunnaich?

24

TheGlaswegian,

Edinburgh - we don't need no stinkin' trams 05/06/2007 09:27:41

#19 Morris, calm down... don't worry. Their aint gonna be a nuclear war - the weapons are the deterrent. As for nuclear waste, don’t believe the scary stories. There's is radiation all around you. Plus, the amount of waste a person would be responsible for in their lifetime if all their electricity was nuclear generated would be about the size of a digestive biscuit. A large nuclear reactor produces around 3 cubic metres of high level waste per year - about 6 black wheelie bins full.

25

TimW1234,

Ottawa, Canada 05/06/2007 09:31:10

Have any of the posters in this forum tried to talk to protesters such as those at the Rosneath Peninsula.

I have in Canada and most of them are smug, self-opinionated, worthless welfare bums. Some come from privileged backgrounds and think that by shouting you down they are winning the argument/discussion.

It is almost useless to reason with them because they have THE CAUSE on their side and repeat their facile arguments ad nauseam and will not accept any opinion but their own.

THey are self-obsessed, self-important and don't give one fig for the rights of others. All they care about is their right to protest - whether it disrupts a whole community.

These people are shameless camera hogs and most of them should get a real job and effectuate change by getting into the seats of power and slyly undermining government policy by any and all means at their disposal once in places of power and influence.

But that would involve cleaning up their act, getting their hair cut, cutting down on the consumption of restricted drugs, and getting out of bed before noon.

MOst of them are useless twits and although many of them have true convictions I feel that some if not the majority are doing it as a "lark" to avoid facing the real world and contributing to it by holding down a job.

26

BonnyBird,

05/06/2007 09:49:47

#22

Who told you only decent people work don't be so ridiculous. Myra Hindley had a job so did Dr Shipman and until they were unmasked people thought they were decent ordinary people. Don't be so naive.

If you disagree with the protest and the people who are protesting say so . If you are against the children being unable to go to school say so.

But don't use either of them as an excuse for your ire.

27

Upbeat,

05/06/2007 10:00:43

Not one person has yet mentioned the scores of Police who are kept busy day and night , in an effort to ensure " public safety" at Faslane. etc. These officers have to be available, and cannot be used for more useful policing.

There is an offence that is sometimes cited to penalise law abiding mortals who annoy or mislead the Police. This is a charge of wasting Police time.

The protestors have made their point. Now generally people are starting to feel that these protestors are simply being anti social.

So, if that is really the case, and they appear to have nothing better to do with their lives, the stae should act against them. Obviously these people are ' annoying ' the state. So perhaps the state could find a place where they can exist , protesting away under canvas for as long as they wish. Windswept Benbecula for a season or two might serve this purpose.

Oooops ! That's just the political message that justified the depravity of the Gulags....

28

Allan(handofgod137),

05/06/2007 10:02:27

Time to stop the protester's giros, and claim back the money already paid as they obviously weren't trying to find work.

29

John1,

Stirling 05/06/2007 10:02:30

I recall that the local council gave these people planning permission to park their scruffy caravans along the verge outside Faslane some time ago. Do they still have this? Do they pat Council Tax? I trust the folk who are being disrupted recall this at election time.
I recall that in order to qualify for unemployment benefits you have to be available for work. I do not see how these 'protesters' qualify. I also recall their fellow- 'protesters' doing criminal damage in Stirling during the G8 'protests'. With supporters like that how can anyone take the anti-Trident movement seriously?
I recommend that next time they glue themselves to the road the police should clear a narrow path for traffic and leave the rest of them glued there.
There are arguments both for and against Trident but I for one can not take these people seriously while they behave the way they do.

30

Miss H,

05/06/2007 10:03:30

27 their cause is right and they have the people of Scotland and the majority of Scottish elected members in both Westminster and Holyrood on their side.

However Trident is coming to the end of its life and there will be no replacement sited in Scotland - the MoD is currently seeking alternative sites in England.

So I think the protestors should be winding down and certainly not stopping children getting to school.

31

walter,

05/06/2007 10:25:29

Sitting on a small mount while on guard duty at Greenham common in the early 80s one of the great unwashed was screeching at the top of her voice towards me that these weapons in there are going to kill us and our children.
I recall thinking at the time (apart from there being no way on the planet would we have children together) these weapons are going to kill the russians and their children if they ever decide to use their weapons to kill the people of the UK.
Still she and the rest had every right to protest and it is not as if their words could hurt me, unlike the stones, bottles or what ever else they could throw and the two airgun pellets and one 22 round that they shot at me.
They were sore especially that 22 round it hit me on the right cheek of my a**e I still lean to the left when sitting down, more through habit than necessity.
Still these were the people who believed in peace and were happy to use violence to show as much.

32

Upbeat,

05/06/2007 10:26:34

32 Miss H

"there will be no replacement sited in Scotland - the MoD is currently seeking alternative sites in England."

You areally are the master of the sweeping statement aren't you ? ;-)

I trust you have evidence for this remark because uless you are a fly on the wall at the Ministry of Defence you will have no way to verify what you claim.

Anyway everyone accepts that the Trident fleet need swift access to deep water. I suppose you also know of a wide choice of uncongested ports around ENGLAND that have this near at hand. ??

33

BonnyBird,

05/06/2007 10:30:33

#30
Its time to stop all the Giro's lets not pick and choose. We have to go back to the way unemployment benefit was intended to be used, as a stop gap between jobs not as a salary and a life long option.

The technology is there the DHSS have access to a massive data base find a job (it used to be a choice of 3), in the persons area and give it to them. Bus fares and lunch money to tide them over for their lie week and that's it. Let them know that if they don't keep the job they forfeit the right to any employment benefit at all.

It would be so simple to do. This is what use to happen why was this seen as such a terrible thing.

34

jock gray,

NZ 05/06/2007 10:31:10

What's the problem? You need to go 25 minutes out of your way so that people can protest against nuclear weapons. So what? Knowing the area and the people and reading some of the posts on here, you have to laugh. Get rid of the bomb's not the protesters. And we will all be wishing Iran well in her attempt to 'go nuclear' eh? No war's thanks to nuclear weapon's? What history have you been reading mate? Keep up the good fight.....

35

Miss H,

05/06/2007 10:43:35

33 If ever used they would kill children in a great many places. Where would depend on which way the wind was blowing. That's the thing when you are prepared to commit indiscriminate mass murder - there is no saying who exactly will die.

34 - it has been fairly well reported including in the Scotsman http://news.scotsman.com/topics.cfm?tid=373&id=577262007

36

Bodger,

Helensburgh 05/06/2007 11:02:38

I have never understood the logic of the demonstrations outside the Naval Base in the 1st place. I worked for 6 years there and in the late 90s the peace camp was so badly supported that there were moves by CND to make it into a Garden for Peace. It was only the Ploughshares campaign, that started in Canada, that brought it back to life. Why do they demonstrate outside the Naval Base? Are they so naive that they think that the Naval Personnel or the Civilian workers would or could stop Trident. If you wish to stop Trident, demonstrate outside Parliament or better yet use the ballot box! The locals are not trying to stop the protests, they are trying to stop the disruption to their children’s lives, nothing has been said of the eyesore of the peace camp, the damage it does to the local economy or the fact that the “protesters” have broken into local properties and squatted in them.

37

scunnin,

05/06/2007 11:07:19

The point here is not the nuclear weapons, not about the right to protest, its about the right it prevents this kids getting to school .. which they have the right to do ...

38

Sedov,

Scotland 05/06/2007 11:15:31

This issue is another example of how the system that perpetuates trident, also manages to divide people who probably have the same interests for their children, a peaceful world without nuclear weapons. As long as we are fighting each other we divert our attention away from the real enemy -the system that creates Trident in the first place. As for the peace protestors - concentrate your efforts more is smashing the system through political means and stop playing into the hands of the war mongers who will be rubbing their hands in delight at this own goal by the protestors.

39

Miss H,

05/06/2007 11:17:40

40 - if a unionist paper reports it that the British government are backing away from siting new nuclear weapons in Scotland they are reporting it because it is true - not because they want it to be true.

40

walter,

05/06/2007 11:25:39

36

33 If ever used they would kill children in a great many places. Where would depend on which way the wind was blowing. That's the thing when you are prepared to commit indiscriminate mass murder - there is no saying who exactly will die.
This is true so how do you prevent people who have them from using them? here's a wacky idea we will have them as well then if they use theirs we will use ours.
No point in any body using them.

34 - it has been fairly well reported including in the Scotsman
I thought the articles in this paper were not to be believed.

41

Yada,

05/06/2007 11:27:08

Anybody know if the crusties are still up the trees in Bilston woods? Still busy protesting against a road that's not going to happen.
Self-indulgent prats and the Faslane crowd are just the same.
I'm not even sure that there is a "right" to protest like this. It's a form of terrorism. "We know we can't ever win at the ballot box so we'll just try and bully you all into doing it our way instead."

42

Allan(handofgod137),

05/06/2007 11:31:47

#31, no just leave them there and let the traffic carry on as normal, every time one of them dies the collective intellegence of the human race will rise

43

Miss H,

05/06/2007 11:37:11

46 they have won at the ballot box - haven't you noticed?

44

Miss H,

05/06/2007 11:41:15

45 You, Putin and Ahmadinejad would agree.

Most other people think you are all barking mad.

45

Pollock Bain,

Kinross 05/06/2007 11:48:39

I was imprisoned after a peaceful demonstration at Faslane in 1984. I went regularly to Faslane at weekends and during holidays because I believed that to use or to threaten to use nuclear weapons is immoral to the point of evil.

At the time, there were two kinds of demonstrators. Those like me, who protested by their vociferous presence alone, and those who engaged in activities such as cutting the fence or boarding the submarines.

I remember being horrified by the wilful squalor of the camp; the half finished attempts to grow things, or to build ovens, or to create proper washing stations. People were constatly getting infections, and pneumonia was rife. I could not have been that kind of protestor, but while I loathed their lifestyle I never doubted their principles.

It is wrong to obstruct children from going to school, and I chaining oneself to a fence, or gluing oneself to the road is more about self glorification and martyrdom that collective non violent direct action.

The police need to sort out which kind of demonstrator is which; to ensure that children get to school unobstructed; and to safeguard the rights of people who believe - as I do - that Trident is as wicked now as it was in the days of the Cold War

46

Firozali A.Mulla MBA PhD,

Dar-Es-Salaam Tanzania 05/06/2007 11:54:50

NO 19
And you have the airport that trasnports the arms. You want to tell me about that???

47

MARINER,

WELLS, SOMERSET 05/06/2007 12:05:46

Asa paid up member of CND I can assure the posters here accusing us of being communists they are completely. I have met Kate Hudson and Bruce Kent several times and they may be socialists but are certainly not communists. If the UK were a true democracy in the same way as Switzerland is, where the people have a say in the running of their country through referendums then the would be no neccesity to protest. For those that advocate the ballot box I would say try earning a living as stand up comics. Sixty six per cent of of the people who turned out to vote rejected the Grinning Jacanapes and his policies but still he got in again with a huge majority, taking the total number of people eligible to vote then the figure translates into seventy five per cent of the people against him (Blair) Get a true democracy and the protesters will disappear.

48

MARINER,

WELLS, SOMERSET 05/06/2007 12:09:12

The first line of my comment should read.
As a paid up member of CND I can assure the posters here accusing us of being communists they are completely wrong.

49

open,

west coast 05/06/2007 12:10:32

Chernobyl
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chernobyl_disaster
and Three mile island
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Three_Mile_Island
may NEVER have happened if there had been protesters expressing concern about nuclear use either for military or industrial complex's like Faslane.

Ask the parents of all the children that died in the aftermath of Chernobyl that CANT go to school now, what they think of nuclear power on their doorstep?

The absolute vitriol on this forum is far more worrying than a couple of days disruption to kids schooling .Maybe those kids might have a future along with their children and grandchildren if some people take a stance against nuclear proliferation.

We were told Saddam had to be stopped before he got WMD yet we have them on our doorstep.That is typical of the propaganda that is continually pumped out about something that when it goes wrong causes massive loss of life.There are a few on here who have VERY VERY SHORT MEMORIES.

At Faslane there are not only nuclear warheads but also nuclear powered subs.Anyone of them that has a critical fault in the reactor around the Clyde and they will HAVE to shut down EVERY school the length and breadth of the clyde estuary.Where will the kids go then for education?Maybe to the same schools that some of the morons on here learnt to act and respond like complete idiots when faced with continued potential holocausts.


LJPR LEGAL JUDICIAL POLITICAL REFORMERS
http://www.ljpr.info
CIVIL TRIAL BY JURY ANYTHING ELSE IS TYRANNY

50

Captain Fantastic,

Glasgow, UK 05/06/2007 12:32:08

#32 "their cause is right and they have the people of Scotland and the majority of Scottish elected members in both Westminster and Holyrood on their side."

Speak for yourself #32. I fully support Trident. Nuclear weapons, however unpalatable, have ensured at least an uneasy peace across Europe for the last 60 years - the longest major war-free period in recorded history. The Russian Bear is down but not out. Unstable Middle Eastern countries may be about to acquire them. I don't think they have your nice-and-comfy middle-class scruples. As for those toss-pots at Faslane, I have an overwhelming desire to torch the camp them every time I pass. I don't think I'm alone.

51

Erse,

Middle East 05/06/2007 12:32:28

#31, John1

One of the founding members of the peace camp was a councillor, I'm not sure if he still is.

52

Upbeat,

05/06/2007 12:44:10

54 open

You are quite entitled to your views however misguided they may be.

Please point out to us where we can find the Government "distaster" plan that says anything remotely close to your remark :

" Anyone of them that has a critical fault in the reactor around the Clyde and they will HAVE to shut down EVERY school the length and breadth of the clyde estuary."


The topic on this board was whether people who agree with your viewpoint should be allowed to interfere with the rights of those who, in daily life, get in their way.

You will of course , as a well informed person, be quite well aware of the detailed reports into the Chernobyll incident and that at Three mile Island. You will know that each of these reports indicate that critical operational mistakes were made.

Since studying these reports in such detail you appear to have stopped thinking. You seem to have ignored the truth that safeguards, improvements in operational proceedures and redesign will have resolved these issues.

Technology has also moved on . You are still attempting to compare the level of technlogy that was incorporated into the first Ford Cortina car over 40 years ago now ,with that of the latest Ford car. Like with like ....this is not.

So perhaps instead of engaging in wild, hopeless and speculative scaremongering . You also really should move on.

53

Fair play,

Landward 05/06/2007 12:51:55

The money saved by scrapping Trident would pay for the trams which Edinburgh so desperately needs.

54

Sedov,

Scotland 05/06/2007 13:02:38

#52 MARINER If only the peace protestors were revolutionary communists -they might get somewhere. All the hand wringing platitudes and candlelight vigils does very little to change things apart from raising awareness. Only political change in the way of a complete transformation of society can real lasting peace be acheived, but thats too hard to acheive for the peace lobby. CND are nice but harmless.

55

Pollock Bain,

Kinross 05/06/2007 13:14:18

Naw, Mariner.I don't think if the peace protester were revolutionary communists they'd get any further than CND - everything would be on hold til after the revolution. And waiting for that is like waiting for Godot.

56

walter,

05/06/2007 13:41:26

#49 You, Putin and Ahmadinejad would agree.

Most other people think you are all barking mad.


I would answer but I will just refer you to Captain Fantastic, at post 56.

57

open,

west coast 05/06/2007 13:43:25

58

Name ONE piece of modern technology that has NEVER broken down.
Name one plane ,one train ,one car ,one gas cooker,even an electric fire that has been produced that is faultless?

Name any fuel that has been successful stored without loss of life or has ever exploded or gone on fire?

When you can find that technology maybe then sceptics will believe the well heeled scientists that earn enormous salaries to keep this techonology going to humanities eternal risk.

Oppenheimer
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Oppenheimer

the creator of the atomic bomb himself admitted
he was increasingly concerned about the potential danger to humanity arising from nuclear weapons and other scientific discoveries, Oppenheimer joined with Albert Einstein, Bertrand Russell, Joseph Rotblat and other eminent scientists of the day to establish the Pugwash Conferences on Science and World Affairs in 1957 and the World Academy of Art and Science in 1960."

If these are the creators of these weapons of mass destruction saying this what chance have us lesser mortals in deciding the true nature of what a NUCLEAR world means for the future of mankind.
Especially our CHILDREN.

LJPR LEGAL JUDICIAL POLITICAL REFORMERS
http://www.ljpr.info
CIVIL TRIAL BY JURY ANYTHING ELSE IS TYRANNY

58

Helen,

05/06/2007 13:43:39

Keep up the protests!!! These folk who are moaning about the protesters would moan a lot more if they had to put up with a world full of nuclear weapons. The protesters have helped to keep the number of weapons down. Well done to them!!!

59

Selgovae,

Scotland 05/06/2007 14:25:51

#56 Captain Fantastic

"Nuclear weapons, however unpalatable, have ensured at least an uneasy peace across Europe for the last 60 years "

I agree. But with the disintegration of the UUSR circumstances have changed. Can you really foresee any circumstance in which we would fire a nuclear missile?
(excluding an asteroid about to hit us)

That uneasy peace relied on some rational beliefs - that a first-strike attempt would guarantee destruction of the aggressor, and that both sides couldn't tolerate taking an action that would destroy their own people. The threat from rogue states or rogue terrorist groups changes that view, and the cold war rules don't apply. A nuclear response would make no sense. It would be too late, and what would the target be?

If we want to stop more countries developing nuclear weapons, and remove them from countries that already have them, a good first step would be for the UK and France to remove them too, leaving just three nuclear superpowers. In defence terms, the money could probably be better spent on non-nuclear first-strike weapons to remove real threats where they exist.

"those toss-pots at Faslane"
I always thought they were hired by the pro-Trident people. They seem to bolster their support.

60

roon,

05/06/2007 14:26:32

who really cares about these unwashed tree hugging degenerates. they do not contribute in any way to a civilised society. we should ban all protests, repeal the human rights act along with ECHR it is all a complete waste of money. only the uk take human rights seriously and we are a laughing stock for it. buying bigger more powerful bombs the more expensive the better is the way forward. there will be another world war so we might as well be ready.

61

The Fly Fifer,

Fife 05/06/2007 14:46:48

Helen, I think you are very much mistaken, what facts do you use for your statement in 64 ............

Freedom of speach is what these people are protesting for then let them read this story ........................

http://www.express.co.uk/posts/view/237

62

Stevie G,

Darlington 05/06/2007 15:01:49

#2 William of Liberton

Did you actually read the story, it wasn't about nuclear wepons it was about kids missing their exams and people who couldn't get to work because of these protestors!

Its about the blinkered few who belive that their cause is more importent and everyone else who gets affected by their behaviour (even if they are just passing by) doen't matter

63

Kenneth,

05/06/2007 15:09:08

Curiously enough this could eventually be included into the broad description of terrorism. When some people, for whatever reason, impose whatever sort of restrictions on the freedom of others to promote their cause.... In the U.S. environmentalists who have enjoyed for years being able to destroy private property in order to make their point will now be included into a broader group ranging from burning a SUV to make a point about global warming to; well you know. Blocking the public road and destroying tax paying citizens' rights of freedom of passage on the roads they paid for could be included. Then the merde will be hitting the fan. So everytime one has a righteous point, go and screw with someone else to force them to join you to get them back their freedoms or make the papers. If you don't do this then I'm going to do that, what ever that is.

64

Tam O'Banter,

Edinburgh 05/06/2007 15:21:21

No64. All the protests of all the peace campaigners have not prevented the manufacture of a single bullet - never mind nuclear weapons! Surely everyone realises this by now!!

65

Polmonto,

05/06/2007 15:22:44

Send these protestors to Guantanamo..or perhaps we should make our own equivalent? I nominate St Kilda. The orange jump-suits should not be water-proofed. They should then glue them to the rocks, since that seems to be what they enjoy.

66

Polmonto,

05/06/2007 15:31:09

...or, they should send them to work in my local KFC - they are short-staffed and I had to wait ages for my zinger tower burger at the weekend. Shambles.

67

Andrew Allan,

05/06/2007 16:23:51

Graham Taylor’s inflammatory comments, when expressing his concerns for the England team set-up, saying he feared that the English team would slip down to being a second rate side like Scotland, I found to be offensive, not because what he said wasn’t basically true, but because he named Scotland in a manner which was elitist in favour to the English.
Once upon a time, I believed the reason for Scotland’s demise, in football terms, was down to the Thatcher government’s treatment of the teachers, which culminated in the teachers withdrawing none paid after school activities, but not now. I have come to realize, that incident, only nipped off at the tail end, and if we wish to find out where things start to go wrong, we have to go back to the early 1970s. 1974 saw the last really great Scottish side, and the last side which we can say played the Scottish style, after this time we changed more to a mix of the European and English style. The Scottish style, which we created, was due to the weather conditions in Scotland, and the size of the players being small, it made the kids skilful on the ball, in a way which made our players sort after in England. The basic style the Brazilians and Argentineans play is the Scottish style, which we exported over to South America, though they have added their own skills and national identities to it. From the 1970s onwards the effects of the Scottish style dwindled in Scotland and with it our effectiveness in qualifying for major competitions, Scotland without the Scottish style leaves us without our natural style of play, and unable to compete in the style we were used to. What we need to do is to re-introduce the Scottish style as the main-stream method of play. Luckily in Scotland today it is possible to play two games which have the Scottish style within them, one, which is my favourite, is called futebol de salao, and the second is futsal, they are close relatives, and have come from places that used the Scottish style,

68

Miss H,

05/06/2007 16:37:21

56 you have every right to support them but the majority of people are against having them here. Nuclear weapons are on their way out of Scotland.

69

Upbeat,

05/06/2007 16:39:39

63 open.

You asked me to :
" Name ONE piece of modern technology that has NEVER broken down."
"Name one plane" ( most don't beark down. and they are built with hundreds of back up systems to allow the pilot to take alternative measures. Worldwide many hundreds of thousands of people trust them every hour of every day. )

" one train" ( most don't, and usually they remain upright and completely safe should they malfunction ,anyway they are able to be shunted about when they do. ditto about hundreds of thousands etc. )

"one car" (most don't, and it is nowadays very unusual and hardly catastophic when they do. so they are in general use. ditto many millions of people etc. )

" one gas cooker" ( most don't and in every example fail safe valves are included in the design ...countless millions are in everyday use.

" even an electric fire".....practically every electric fire when first built is faultless, but in case it is not fuses are fitted which make them safe....countless millions of people etc.

Your argument is that mankind is incapable of producing something that is faultless, so therefore you believe that all nuclear power haas to be -in every case- deadly and dangerous.

Firstly, in this you devalue and underrate the human capability for problem solving. Secondly, you pick on one technology in isolation from hundreds that are demonstrably worse , for your attack. One which hardly kills anybody ...unlike aircraft, ferries, or cars, house fires or smoking !

Tidal waves are invariably dangerous...what do you intend that we should do about them...or about asteroid strike, or Bird Flu ??

Life is full of risks, even lying at home in bed with the covers over your head is not safe.

It is time to move on, leave proper risk analysis to those best qualified to understand those risks and find something else to expend your ener

70

Upbeat,

05/06/2007 16:42:42

75 Andrew Allen,

so nice that you have got something that is clearly worrying you off your chest.

but why here ?

71

TheGlaswegian,

This rag is a national disgrace. Buy the Herald! 05/06/2007 16:46:56

The bottom line is that the school kids should not be made to suffer. You only get one chance at exams and this disruption could cost them a place at university or college.
Do what you feel needs done protesters but please do not jeopardise the future of some of Scotland's kids!

72

Upbeat,

05/06/2007 16:47:15

76 Miss H.

another sweeping statement. Twop today ...Are they are getting any better ?

" but the majority of people are against having them here. "

The majority of people in Scotland or elsewhere have never been asked this question, and so your assertion is once again , quite groundless.

and please don't tell me you read this in the Scotsman, the Herald , the Evening News, the Times, the DT, etc. That alone does not make the truth about your wish , any more correct.

73

Andrew Allan,

05/06/2007 17:13:19

Upbeat., #78.
Went onto the story site and there is only about twenty hits, so no point in trying to spread the message there.

74

Colin B,

Bearsden 05/06/2007 17:19:56

#4 and 76 ! CND is highly political(extreme left wing) and highly undemocratic relying as it does on imported protestors from Scandinavia, Spain, Portugal and elsewhere. They live in squalor, involve children in their politics and never protest about Russian or Chnes Nuclear weapons. High time CND were in court charged with treason as well as other offences.

75

Andrew Allan,

05/06/2007 17:25:14

Colin B., #82.
Hold on Colin, treason for opinion and protest, isn't it a little harsh stamping over anyone in jackboots for that.

76

Tax haven,

05/06/2007 18:51:10

Tiananmen Square even!

77

wisdom,

edinburgh 05/06/2007 19:10:38

....I work for a living and the Protesters represent my views.....disrupting children's education is out of order and I would take them to task for that....it is however for Mr.Salmond to lead the way in advising the Westminster govt. that if Trident is essential for the defence of the UK then it would be better located in the Thames,or some other location South of the Border as far away from Scotland as possible....an Independent Scotland with no Military commitments to Nato or any other military alliance would not have to waste taxpayers' money on nuclear weapons....hospitals,schools,pensioners,and yes,the unemployed ,could be properly funded....the Chinese may use tanks to kill unarmed protesters,the UK government doesn't need to employ armoured vehicles....they have THE PARAS,more efficient and cost effective by far

78

Paula,

05/06/2007 19:21:21

Although I agree with the protest it is unfortunate that the protesters seem to only be affecting the local people. After all 1 million marched against the war in Iraq with government paying not a heed to them, what hope a handful of protesters way up in Scotland and as far removed from Westminster as possible.

Perhaps they should take their protest down there and set up a stall next to the man who the government hate with a passion (what is it he is against Iraq?)

Twenty-five years and no change might signal it is not working and it is unfair to the children if they can't even get to school.

79

Pilrig,

Livingston 05/06/2007 20:02:05

W. Smith 3 - everyone enjoys freedom of speech even bigots like you. Muttha******

80

Pilrig,

Livingston 05/06/2007 20:04:27

Trident of course is there to protect our right to dissent and protest - ye gotta laugh !!

81

Pilrig,

Livingston 05/06/2007 20:10:33

Wasn't it wonderful how Trident prevented the Troubles in Northern Ireland, the Argie from landing in the Falklands, Saddam invading Kuwait, how it prevents the genocide in Darfur, evicts the likes of Mugabe, how it's curbing the Taliban, and how it makes walking doon Lothian Road on a Saturday night perfectly safe.
Aye, by Christ, we get our money's worth from it !

82

Displaced Scot,

United Kingdom 05/06/2007 20:18:49

Trident has been good value for money through its history. The Greenham Common women claimed that they got cruise missles out of there. In fact it was the demise of the Soviet Union that did that, you can give the credit to Ronald Reagan and Margaret Thatcher for that.

83

doublescotch,

USA 05/06/2007 20:21:35

#89 that is the ugliest comment I have read. You aught to be horse-whipped. And your mouth washed out with carbolic soap

84

Shave,

Edinburgh 05/06/2007 20:34:43

#93 'ugliest comment' ???

Are you new here?

85

Paul Spencer,

glasgow 05/06/2007 20:49:36

# 75 wrong post or right post wrong place just like the folk at Faslane!!

86

doublescotch,

USA 05/06/2007 21:50:35

Why don't they protest at the week-end? They would get more people to help with the protest. After all most folks work Mon-Fri. The anti's can give up the their week-end pleasure to help protest,the children would be safe on school days etc. The goverment should issue a permit only allowing week-end protests.Everyone would be happy. or not:)

87

albajoe,

linwood 05/06/2007 22:01:53

Nuke the hippies

88

Pilrig,

Livingston 05/06/2007 22:06:47

Doublescotch (make that Old Pulteney !) #93 - uglsiest comment ? Jeez you've led a sheltered life. Anyway forget the horsewhip - we've abolished corporal punishment over here, much to the regret of the Lochgelly fetishists !

89

Pilrig,

Livingston 05/06/2007 22:07:12

98 - Linwood no more !

90

Mop,

Scotland 05/06/2007 22:59:31

I agree with what the protesters are trying to do but it should not interfere with ordinary people going about their everyday business.

My son has just finished his exams and it is stressful enough without added worry for the children/students.

Surely the protesters can see a way around this?

91

,

05/06/2007 23:42:00
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason: Scotsman Import, Original comment id: 684523, Article id was mapped to record!
92

whatsyourname,

06/06/2007 00:57:20

If the protesters don't keep it up the school children wont need an education, as we wont have a world left the way things are going

93

Proud to have Scots blood,

Brooklyn, N.Y. 06/06/2007 04:09:47

I know what we put with here in the U.S., New York & Brooklyn in particular with protesters. They tie up traffic & make working people anxious because they will be late for their jobs. They shout & scream thu bull horns & blow whistles enuf to deafen everyone. They are belligerent & one sided in their view point. Students are inconvenienced trying to get to schools. Mis-guided groups with a cause are the bane of people everywhere. Some are destructive of property in the attempt to get theirway. I see them as dictatorial & controlling. Most of them are well educated however, they lack common sense and decency.

94

Proud to have Scots blood,

Brooklyn, N.Y. 06/06/2007 04:12:37

A Post Script......

A well aimed kick to their arses would be satisfying.
Stiff fines & jail time might make them think
what they are doing.

95

Pilrig,

Livingston 06/06/2007 05:27:04

105 - ahh freedom & democracy...dontcha just love it...certainly your Prez keeps going on about it.

96

doublescotch,

USA 06/06/2007 05:59:18

#99 Don't be a Podex! I grew up in Scotland.It was the swear words that were foul.And if I were your mother I would smack you up the side of the head. And by the way, I grew up in Scotland, when there was coporal punishment in school. When you got the strap for the least little thing! Did you smarty pants,Get the belt for your ugly mouth?

97

doublescotch,

USA 06/06/2007 06:04:15

#99 Laphroaig is my poison.I will have a dram tonight and think of you:)

98

TimW1234,

Ottawa, Canada 06/06/2007 08:55:49

doublescotch

You have posted in these forums before and #89 Pilrig (Pigprig) is certainly NOT the ugliest comment ever posted.

There have been some startingly semi-obscene and fully-offensive comments posted and #89s is almost tame by comparison. although he should not have brought his own family situation into it by referring to "Mutha******".

Have a few more Laphroaig (also my poison, at times) and all will be revealed and in its proper perspective.

99

John1,

Stirling 06/06/2007 09:16:56

57 Erse
So a 'protester' was a councillor? This supports what I said.

These people never learn.
Study the between-wars period. There were lots of 'protests' then, against rearmament, which resulted in cut-backs in defence spending. These were reversed just in time and we survived by the skin of our teeth when the Nazis set off on their path of conquest. Had we had stronger forces in the 1930s it could have prevented WW2. Deterrence works.
There was no deterrent in the Falklands - just one unarmed ice patrol ship, which was scheduled for withdrawal, and one squad of Royal Marines. Again, the presence of a stronger force would have deterred the Argentinians from invading.
Deterrence works - not that the 'protesters' care. I doubt that they are in the least bit concerned about preserving our freedoms. They just want to have their fun and convince themselves that they are impressing people.

100

Shielagh,

uk 06/06/2007 11:33:04

* Firstly, the vast majority of these protestors do in fact have jobs. If you look at the website you will see that there have been blocks done by academics, NHS workers, actors and many more. These are just ordinary, everyday people making their voices heard.
*Secondly, there would be a lot less disruption if the police allowed the protestors to blockade the gates to the base as they want to, instead of pushing them out to the road.
*Thirdly, there are a manner of ways to express disatisfaction with something, such as nuclear weapons. Campaigners combine lobby MPs, mass marchers and rallies with non-violent direct action. Many think it is our duty to break a law to draw attention to a greater, international law being broken - having nuclear weapons in the first place!

The numbers of police are not needed at Faslane. These protestors are peaceful.

101

Proud to have Scots blood,

Brooklyn N.Y. 06/06/2007 13:07:04

#106

It is one thing to respect freedom, be considerate and behave decently. It is another to
do the opposite & be disrespectful and behave like a thug & bully to achieve a goal ... any goal.

102

David C.,

USA. 06/06/2007 17:05:24

As this negatively impacts the protesters image, might I suggest that the organizers leave a window of opportunity for the school buses to pass in th einterestes of community relations? If not, they risk being lumped in with the "rebels without a clue" crowd or the "tin hat brigade". Such methods of protest can only survive with the tolerance of the local populance and to something in anyway that adversely effects the local children is just begging for it.
Btw, glueing oneself to the roadway? It would never work here. Can you say "speed bump"?


 

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