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Protestant to take charge of Catholic school for first time

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Published Date: 27 June 2008
A PROTESTANT teacher has been appointed to lead a Scottish Roman Catholic school for the first time.
Usually, a practising Catholic is employed, but a shortage of headteachers led to the temporary appointment until a permanent replacement can be found.

Morag McCreadie is a member of the Church of Scotland and regularly attends Teviot Parish Ch
urch in Hawick, Roxburghshire.

She will be known as a "manager of learning" following negotiations between senior Catholic church leaders and Scottish Borders Council.

The 37-year-old, currently depute headteacher at Drumlanrig Primary in Hawick, will head both St Joseph's in Selkirk and St Margaret's in Hawick, 12 miles away.

She will be supported by a principal teacher at each school who will be responsible for supervising religion on the curriculum.

It is the first time a non-Catholic has been put in charge since the denominational schools were absorbed into the state system 90 years ago.

The Roman Catholic Church in Scotland has never had a non-Catholic as head at any of its schools, which number almost 400, but Cardinal Keith O'Brien, leader of Scotland's 800,000 Catholics, has given his personal blessing to the move.

The appointment of Mrs McCreadie is being described as a temporary measure for just one year.

St Margaret's Primary has already had three headteachers in three years and shares the current incumbent with three other schools.

David Parker, Scottish Borders Council leader, said: "Personally, I don't think religious background, just like race or gender, should have anything to do with these issues as long as the schools get the right person."

Mrs McCreadie said she was looking forward to taking up the post. She added: "I will enjoy the summer with my family and prepare for the exciting challenges ahead."

Catholic schools in Scotland were brought into mainstream education under the Education (Scotland) Act 1918. There are 392 Catholic schools north of the Border, teaching around 125,000 pupils.

Michael McGrath, director of the Scottish Catholic Education Service, which promotes Catholic education in Scotland, said he had never heard of a similar appointment.

He said: "The important thing is that the community supports the schools."

"We are obviously keen to ensure a Catholic education," he added, "and I am sure the archdiocese will have taken that into account."

But Gillian MacDonald, chairwoman of St Margaret's Primary School Parent Teachers Association, warned: "My worry is that it may open the floodgates. I feel it is important to protect the identity of a Catholic education."

Two years ago, maths teacher David McNab won an employment tribunal against Glasgow City Council after being denied promotion at a Catholic school for being an atheist.

The teacher at St Paul's in Glasgow was told he would need approval from the Catholic Church to apply for a job as principal teacher of pastoral care.





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  • Last Updated: 26 June 2008 10:00 PM
  • Source: The Scotsman
  • Location: Edinburgh
 
1

,

27/06/2008 01:43:11
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2

Fifi la Bonbon,

27/06/2008 02:01:20
Maybe the new heedie will be able to explain to the weans why their good Catholic mummies and daddies who love each other very much and hug each other in a special way aren't springing babies forth every year, even though the strange man in black with the funny collar says they should.
3

Stephen101,

Shock horror 27/06/2008 05:34:19
God will be turning in his grave.

Tell me again, what century are we in?
4

Tatties ower the side,

Johannesburg 27/06/2008 06:13:05
Sister Angela (Teacher in Catholic school): Now, Mary, what do you want to be when you grow up?

Little Mary: I want to be a prostitute.

Sister Angel: WHAT???!!!????

Little Mary: I said I want to be a prostitute.

Sister Angela: Than God for that, I thought you said a Protestant!
5

yockel,

27/06/2008 06:32:41
#1. Fanling - Catholic eductaion? - the history has a slightly different slant and the head teacher can't get in to heavan because he's not a catholic, that's about all the difference.
6

TimW1234,

Ottawa, Canada 27/06/2008 06:57:36
There goes the neighbourhood into a cesspool of religious conflicts and endless insults.
7

Boy Wonder,

27/06/2008 06:59:54
When I was at primary school, a Catholic education was purported to be better than a Protestant one. Through my life, I have found this to be fairly true. Perhaps because despite the religion, the teachers were stern and demanding enough for you to do well. I dunno ... it's only a suggestion.

Now however, I see no reason for "faith" schools. Not with State support. School is no place for religion. Religion is not for children. That's just brainwashing ... which should no longer be acceptable in this day and age.

Put an end to Faith Schools ... now!
8

donald,

glasgow 27/06/2008 07:01:19
"About time too.They've beeen doing it for years with Celtic managers, and have have some limited success

The Celtic Board is run by loyalists. Papes and Prods.
9

zeno,

www.thinkhumanism.com 27/06/2008 07:43:50
The answer to "What is a Catholic education?" has never been forthcoming. All we usually get is fuzzy stuff about Catholic 'ethos', words like 'distinctive' and other things that imply that non-denominational schools aren't up to instilling 'real' morality in our children.

I assume the one and only reason a Catholic was not appointed to this role is that none applied for the job. There must have been much wringing of hands and praying in the upper echelons over this one!

It's high time this nonsense was stopped and the undemocratic control and veto of religions taken away from state-funded schools.
10

Horrible Cankers at the Cyber Shebeen,

27/06/2008 09:30:51
I am hoping that one day, it will be illegal to educate children in a religion/cult domineering environment.

Keep indoctrination and education separate.
11

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27/06/2008 09:37:33
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12

Geoff,

sa 27/06/2008 09:47:30
Strange. How can a PROTESTant be in charge of an RC school? Doesn't make sense. Surely a Catholic school ceases to be such if they put a Prod in charge. Wouldn't happen in the Falls Road although strangely, my Presbytarian Scot grandfather built a chapel in the Falls road before WW2!! Could never figure that one out.
13

Scotish Exile,

27/06/2008 09:49:25
whatever next....a prod getting a job with GCC (Glasgow Celtic Council)????
14

,

27/06/2008 09:56:08
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,

27/06/2008 10:16:16
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,

27/06/2008 10:25:13
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,

27/06/2008 10:29:48
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sam the god,

27/06/2008 10:36:38
There must be a blue moon today as at last the canker and I agree on something “I am hoping that one day, it will be illegal to educate children in a religion/cult domineering environment.Keep indoctrination and education separate”. But things are going to get worse as old leapy salmond is backing state sponsored muslim education. Where do we stop state sponsored communist/fascist schools each could argue that they have a right to educate children in their beliefs/views as taxpayers money is being used to educate religion.
19

Media 1,

cape town 27/06/2008 10:44:22
The problem nowadays is that there is no respect for certain codes of conduct.
Personally, I respect the right of the school to appoint who they wish to appoint, but it should not be viewed as bigotted or disciminatory if they choose only to appoint catholics. After all, a Catholic school is for catholic people.
The Royal and Ancient had a rule that no women were allowed in the club house. It was a rule that had been around for 400 years and then eventually some womens rights groups decided to put their own agenda in front of the code of conduct at that golf club. They disrespected the code. And now ladies are allowed in the club, which is great I am all for it if that is what the decision makers want. But I believe there is a ladies only bar planned?
Anyway, back to the story in hand. Once a catholic replacement is found, the protestant women will need to go, and that is a decision that must be supported and respected.
20

Number 6,

Germany 27/06/2008 10:55:58
Excellent news .Perhaps this will stop the rapid, foaming at the mouth ignoramouses coming on here
spouting their ignorance. For the last time, every Christian country in the world, with the possible exception of France, has a Catholic school system.

The reason a Catholic Education is better is because of the discipline within the schools. There is very very little religious education and its not all christian. You can bleat and wring your hands all you like but the system is not only here to stay, but is getting larger due to the huge influx of immigrants from Eastern Europe. Your hatred of all things Catholic is "Scotland's Shame" not the Catholic school system. Grow up for once in your lifes.
21

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27/06/2008 11:00:51
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22

Galaman,

Galashiels 27/06/2008 11:12:27
I am willing to bet that if this had happened in western Scotland or Lanarkshire, there would be street riots and mayhem.
23

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27/06/2008 11:15:28
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Media 1,

cape town 27/06/2008 11:15:48
Number 6

I dont think people have a hatred of all things Catholic and certainly not of catholic people. I think what some people dont like is the church's hierachy and their ungodly approach to almost everything.

I was born into a catholic family, but when I realised that I wasnt catholic myself I moved on. I didnt agree with the church view on abortion, contraception or homosexuality, so in effect I was protesting, thus a protestant. So then when I looked into that demonination I also found problems and thus eventually was able to free myself of the worlds attempt to force me into a religious sect. and now that I am free I am more accepting and more kind, compassionate and caring. I respect all religious people and their right to be religious and I wish them all the best. But like most people I am not a fan of the people who preach to these religious masses.
25

EWB,

UK 27/06/2008 11:25:45
This is a very positive step, especially in Scotland, and I hope that it proves a success. Practising Christians of the Churches of Rome, Scotland and England, and of other Christian denomination, worship the same God, after all.

I am surprised that the old chestnut of a Roman Catholic being able to marry an heir to the Throne (and future head of the Church of England)hasn't yet been proposed. But could a Catholic heir really head the C of E? "No man shall serve two masters."
26

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27/06/2008 11:29:21
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Number 6,

Germany 27/06/2008 11:30:51
#34 , So why is there such a feverent opposition to the Catholic School System. Assuming you went through it, would you agree there is very little intrusion by religion in the schools?.

I also did not turn out as a God fearing religious person either, which just emphasises my point. Do these people object also to the Church of England shool system ?.
28

Geoff,

sa 27/06/2008 11:36:18
17 Vincent W-I think you have completely misunderstood my comments. I have absolutely no general prejudices against catholics or catholicism. My wife is Irish Catholic/Jewish . I agree totally with your kind comments re Grand dad and I like to think that some rubbed off! My wonder was directed at the phenomenon of a Presbytarian Unionist builder being invited into the staunchly Catholic Falls Road area of Belfast at a time in Irish history when passions were at a high point following the Irish civil War. Maybe YOUR lack of knowledge of that time and place has caused this misunderstanding.
Regards
29

Geoff,

sa 27/06/2008 11:44:54
34 Media 1-good post. My comment was really just about the oxymoron inherent in this story-how can a protestant be in charge of a single faith Roman catholic school. It ,IN THECONTEXT OF THE SITUATION, makes no sense although I personally wouldnt have a problem if they put Mickey Mouse in charge. Religious affiliation is not an issue for me.
Hope u are well-sunny-25 degrees and dry in Durbs!
30

Geoff,

sa 27/06/2008 11:56:41
41 Bring them on-Spain should(hopefully) thump them! Not to fond of the ones who called us "Britischer Pigdogs!!" I was brought up in the fifties wen our toy soldiers were Desert rats and Afrika Corps!! Mind u there was Franco....:)
31

Paid Off Handsomely,

Bassetlaw 27/06/2008 12:01:18
How very sad that negotiations took place between the council and the RC church to employ the dirty word in Scotland... ssshhhhh don't mention the word Protestant.

2008 and we have a news story on the front page of the Scotsman about a Protestant being given a management position in a Scottish school.

Whatever next? a female Priest or Pope....

Very sad indeed the RC are still allowed to discriminate against teachers because of religion. Surely they must be the only employers to actively discriminate on the grounds of being a Protestant.

Shame on the Scottish Executive for allowing this apartheid to continue.
32

D Napier,

27/06/2008 12:02:00
The sooner we get rid of the this carzy situation of having separate Catholic schools in this country then maybe we'll finally be able to do something about sectarianism.

We don't need to have separate Catholic schools. What is wrong with separate religious education lessons in non-denominational schools?

Before anyone asks I have mixed Protestant/Catholic parents and was educated in a non-denominations school.
33

Paid Off Handsomely,

Bassetlaw 27/06/2008 12:03:34
1 Protestant in the entire country in management within RC educational schools.

Bigotry and apartheid is alive and well I'm afraid.
34

Paid Off Handsomely,

27/06/2008 12:05:55
44

Sounds like too much common sense for the bigots in government who allow apartheid to go unhindered.

Can anyone tell another field of employment where you will be refused a job on the grounds of religion?

As for the apartheid of our children....shame on our politicians for allowing this to continue.
35

Geoff,

sa 27/06/2008 12:08:33
43Paid off Handsomely-there is another story in todays issue about muslim schools-now there they definitely would not employ a prod but i suppose it would in reality make no sense for them to do so in the context of a single faith institution which brings us to the difficult question at the heart of the issue-how far should we interfere in freedom of association and at what point does ethnocentrism become discrimination? Forcing people to mix is probably as bad as allowing them to chose not to mix. Difficult one-I dont know the answer.
36

Richardinho,

27/06/2008 12:09:52
Can anyone tell another field of employment where you will be refused a job on the grounds of religion?

Queen of England?
37

Paid Off Handsomely,

27/06/2008 12:10:44
NO28 said

The reason a Catholic Education is better is because of the discipline within the schools.

Propaganda on a par with Goebells I'm afraid. Can you explain where Catholic schools are better? Is it educational results you refer to?

Please provide the facts and figures that RC schools are "Better" as you put it.

This should be straight out of the Goebells handbook of downright nonsense.
38

Paid Off Handsomely,

Bassetlaw 27/06/2008 12:14:23
48

Or Pope? Or chief Rabbi?

So you want the head of the Anglican church to be a Roman Catholic do you Richard?

Richardinho I know this may come as a shock to people like you. But the head of the Anglican church is the Queen. So Invariably that means she has to be an Anglican.

Just the same as the Pope needs to be RC.

Scotland's shame, open apartheid and bigotry.
39

Paid Off Handsomely,

27/06/2008 12:15:57
48

Queen of the Commonwealth, not England. In fact she's your Queen also.

Which is nice!
40

Richardinho,

27/06/2008 12:19:04
The head of the Anglican church should be an Anglican imho. I don't have a problem with that. I don't see how you have a problem with the notion that the head of a Catholic school should (normally) be a Catholic.
41

AJ Fife,

27/06/2008 12:19:49
As his first act, will the new Protestant heidmister start smashing up all the wee Virin Mary statues scattered about the school?

It'll be a reformation....
42

Richardinho,

27/06/2008 12:20:03
#51 You can think what you like. I regard her as a usurper.
43

AJ Fife,

27/06/2008 12:20:40
Oops......virin=virgin
44

AJ Fife,

27/06/2008 12:21:27
Oops.....his=her
45

Paid Off Handsomely,

27/06/2008 12:23:10
AJ

I know intelligence isn't your strong point son, so I'll say this a couple of times just for you.

She usually means she is a woman.

Women taking up that role are known as headmistresses.

Now now, back to sleep dafty.
46

Jock MacTamson 2,

Highlands 27/06/2008 12:25:00
School = Education
Church = Religion

They should be totally seperated to allow all children to mix together to avoid the them and us scenario.

In the highlands we do not have more than a hand full of Catholic Schools but we have plenty catholics. We also have no sectarian voilence outside of the old firm football occasions..

I could not tell you the relgion of most of my friends nor do I care. It bothers me not what they call their imaginary best friends.
47

Paid Off Handsomely,

27/06/2008 12:25:59
Richardinho

I'm sure there's a big difference between being head of a worldwide chuch and the local school in the borders.

How sad that bigots will not accept Protestants for teasching jobs in Scotland in 2008.

And she is YOUR Queen, like it or not. Which as I said earlier, is nice!
48

,

27/06/2008 12:27:52
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49

AJ Fife,

27/06/2008 12:28:14
#57,

Hey thicko, yer too late, I already admitted ma wee error!

It's headteacher anyway ya bawbag!
50

Richardinho,

27/06/2008 12:28:54
''m sure there's a big difference between being head of a worldwide chuch and the local school in the borders.
'
No, when you're talking about basic principles (no pun intended), there's no difference at all. If you want to instruct people in a Catholic way of life, then you need to be a Catholic. That applies to a 'lowly' headmistress as much as it does to the man at the top.
51

Richardinho,

27/06/2008 12:29:45
'And she is YOUR Queen, like it or not. Which as I said earlier, is nice!'

This is an argument for another time. But as I say, I regard her as a usurper.
52

Paid Off Handsomely,

27/06/2008 12:30:00
Jock

I have no problems with children being taught any religion of choice. However I do have a problem with religious discrimiation of Protestants, Jews and Muslims by the RC church.

Surely C.O.S children should also be allowed the privelege of separate schools and RC teaching staff banned from management?

After all they are tax payers too and should be allowed to discriminate in the same way the RC church does.

Scotland's not so hidden apartheid, backed by the politicians... shame on them.

53

Paid Off Handsomely,

27/06/2008 12:30:01
Jock

I have no problems with children being taught any religion of choice. However I do have a problem with religious discrimiation of Protestants, Jews and Muslims by the RC church.

Surely C.O.S children should also be allowed the privelege of separate schools and RC teaching staff banned from management?

After all they are tax payers too and should be allowed to discriminate in the same way the RC church does.

Scotland's not so hidden apartheid, backed by the politicians... shame on them.

54

Richardinho,

27/06/2008 12:32:09
#65 The term 'non-denominational school' is something of a misnomer. Many so called schools are de-facto CoS schools.
55

,

27/06/2008 12:32:27
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Paid Off Handsomely,

Bassetlaw 27/06/2008 12:34:30
62

So you won't have any problems with Protestants denying RC's vacant positions in employment if they wish their staff to follow Presbyterian teachings then?

Would you be alarmed if all non denom schools barred RC's because they wished to teach the gospel in a Protestant fashion?

If it looks like a bigot, walks like a bigot...shame on Richardinho for promoting bigotry.

Do you have a problem with this woman being employed then?
57

Paid Off Handsomely,

27/06/2008 12:36:49
Vincent

Now I'm sure we told you to stop telling porkies before.

Name the minister and I'll check it out and see if one is telling big fat whoppers to hide his bias and bigotry.

I'm waiting Vincent....
58

Paid Off Handsomely,

27/06/2008 12:40:38
66 said

Many so called schools are de-facto CoS schools.

So would you have a problem if these de-facto schools sacked all RC teaching staff in favour of C.O.S?
59

Richardinho,

27/06/2008 12:42:51
'So you won't have any problems with Protestants denying RC's vacant positions in employment if they wish their staff to follow Presbyterian teachings then?'

The comparison isn't really valid since Catholicism and Protestantism are really quite different religions.
The whole point of Protestantism is that people are free to practice religion in their own way. Hence why there are so many varieties of 'protestantism' whilst Catholicism is a united church.

At any rate there simply isn't any demand for 'Protestant' schools. if there was then people would vote for them.
60

Paid Off Handsomely,

27/06/2008 12:43:31
Many so called schools are de-facto CoS schools.

I know this is difficult Richard, but there are no such things as C.O.S schools anywhere in Scotland.

Only one religious grouping in this land feels the need to isolate children, discriminate against teaching staff and have their followers spout Goebels like propaganda.

PS still waiting to find out this minister and why RC schools are "Better"
61

Geoff,

sa 27/06/2008 12:44:21
AJ Fife-53,55,56- yer all atither today old chap! Howyra doin AJ?
62

Richardinho,

27/06/2008 12:45:33
'So would you have a problem if these de-facto schools sacked all RC teaching staff in favour of C.O.S?'

I would have a problem with that, as that would be against the law. I would have a problem if a Catholic school tried to violate statutory Employment law.
63

Calum Crubag,

27/06/2008 12:45:52
Religious brainwashing should not be funded by the state.

Time to move out of the dark ages.
64

Paid Off Handsomely,

27/06/2008 12:47:29
Richard

EHHH we know they are different groups, thanks for enlightening us. But you never answered the question..

Is it ok to sack or discriminate against RC's in any vacant position within any employment field? Simple answer please, yes or no!

As for the United church, you really do believe the propaganda, don't you? Just a pity everyone else knows it's all about bigotry.
65

AJ Fife,

27/06/2008 12:48:26
Geoff,

You should always read the article fully before you post, as there's always a smart @rse like POH waiting to pounce. However, his comments say more about him than anything else! :)

Am no too bad pal, how about you?
66

Horrible Cankers at the Cyber Shebeen,

27/06/2008 12:48:56
13...But religion is a 'form of imprisonment'...what else could it be when children are forced into it?...would you not say that children who were brought up in cults..ie 'Scientology' or the 'Moonies' etc (and there are many) were unfairly indoctrinated into something that their wee minds are not allowed to question or say "NO" to?....

All those children in Chapels...Mosques and Churches....driven their by their parents like wee ants...rounded up and herded in...

"Go on son git that indoctrination doon yer neck...it'll do ye good in the hereafter...thats right..swallow the lot of it because I'm telling you its the truth"...

"What do you mean you dont' want to be a Christian/Muslim/Catholic/Jew...listen to mummy and daddy now because we know whats best for you.."
67

Geoff,

sa 27/06/2008 12:49:23
60 Vincent W-no prob and agree with your philosophy of tolerance and mutual respect. A person should be allowed his/her beliefs but should respect those of others. That statement might sound a little bland but therein lies the key. AJ Fife is still my friend even though he thinks HRH The Duke of Edinburgh should be shot at dawn(the one who famously asked Papua New guineans ifthey still ate each other!)
68

Richardinho,

27/06/2008 12:49:55
'
I know this is difficult Richard, but there are no such things as C.O.S schools anywhere in Scotland.'

I'm a Borderer myself, so I have experience of the education system in this neck of the woods.
The Secondary school that I attended had regular church services in a protestant church. Likewise, assemblies and religious education took place from a CofS point of view. I'm proud to say that other faiths are treated with respect and there are facilities for them to receive instruction.
69

Paid Off Handsomely,

27/06/2008 12:52:09
I would have a problem with that, as that would be against the law. I would have a problem if a Catholic school tried to violate statutory Employment law


So there you have it folks. Richard does not want and agree with actively discriminating against RC's, but has no such problems doing so to Protestants.

Are you telling everyone Richard, the Catholic church have never broken the law in employment practice?

Are the EIS telling porkies when they say teaching staff are being discriminated against because of their religion?

The Glasgow teacher (name escapes me) who sued and won his case because he was dscriminated against is wrong and the judge too?

Dear dear Richard, you really are living in a world of scorn and derision my friend.
70

,

27/06/2008 12:53:57
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71

Horrible Cankers at the Cyber Shebeen,

27/06/2008 12:54:03
33...Speak for yourself....there are many that never question, but accept on the basis of their indoctrination and their parents immersing them in the particular religion that they are brought up in...for some people, particularly those whose culture frowns upon questioning, criticising or even leaving their religion...blind faith/acceptance is exactly what they practice....
72

Richardinho,

27/06/2008 12:54:50
#76 It's not about bigotry at all-it's about common sense. To provide a Catholic education, you must be a Catholic. if you wanted to provide a 'Protestant education' , I would expect that you'd have to be a Protestant.
However there is no great desire amongst parents for specifically Protestant schools or else they'd vote for them.
73

Paid Off Handsomely,

27/06/2008 12:54:54
I'm a Borderer myself, so I have experience of the education system in this neck of the woods.
The Secondary school that I attended had regular church services in a protestant church. Likewise, assemblies and religious education took place from a CofS point of view. I'm proud to say that other faiths are treated with respect and there are facilities for them to receive instruction.

Are there the same facilities within RC schools Richard?

Think not Sir!
74

Richardinho,

27/06/2008 12:56:40
#81 You're not listening. I said it would be wrong to discriminate against people of both religions. We have employment laws in this country, and I expect ALL employers to abide by them.
75

Paid Off Handsomely,

27/06/2008 12:58:01
84

So you agree with act of settlement then? The head of the church of England must be C.O.E?

If I have a Protestant based faith employment agency or company, you will have no problem me discriminating against RC's.

Is that what you are saying here?
76

Paid Off Handsomely,

27/06/2008 13:00:04
#81 You're not listening. I said it would be wrong to discriminate against people of both religions. We have employment laws in this country, and I expect ALL employers to abide by them.

Except the Roman Catholic church of course.

One non RC in a managerial position. Is that just by chance? or is discrimination actively taking place and encouraged.

Remember Richard, just one person in the whole of Scotland is non RC.
77

,

27/06/2008 13:00:09
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78

Richardinho,

27/06/2008 13:01:03
'The head of the church of England must be C.O.E?'

Of course. I have already said so. I don't think however that the head of the Church of England should be the head of State. But that's another matter.

'If I have a Protestant based faith employment agency or company, you will have no problem me discriminating against RC's.
'
That sounds far too vague for words. You'd have to explain what you mean.
79

Paid Off Handsomely,

27/06/2008 13:02:47
Vincent

Still waiting to hear about these imaginery ministers sending their children to RC schools.

And from Goebels who said the following "Catholic schools are better" Burt forgot to tell us why they are better.

I'm waiting right here...
80

Geoff,

sa 27/06/2008 13:05:14
Not that I mean that one should respect the right of one tribe to have their neighbours for dinner! respect beliefs within reason!
81

Paid Off Handsomely,

27/06/2008 13:07:30
Here we go


Atheist teacher wins job tribunal

David McNab had hoped to apply for promotion at a Catholic school
A teacher who is an atheist has won an employment tribunal case in which he claimed he was prevented from applying for promotion at a Catholic school.
David McNab, a maths teacher at St. Paul's Roman Catholic High School in Glasgow was told he needed Catholic church approval to apply for the post.

He took the city council to tribunal, claiming religious discrimination.

Glasgow City Council and the Roman Catholic Church are now studying the implications of the ruling.

The tribunal decided Mr McNab had been discriminated against on human rights grounds.

I just hope now everyone can go for every job - although I don't think that will happen

David McNab

First, by article 9 of the European Convention on Human Rights which guarantees freedom of thought and religion, and also article 14 which prohibits discrimination.

The tribunal's full judgement will be published later this week.

Mr McNab told BBC Radio's Newsdrive programme that he had been "devastated" when his headteacher had told him that only candidates with approval of the Catholic church would be considered for the post of principal teacher of pastoral care.

Mr McNab said: "You have a teacher of pastoral care at every secondary school in Scotland, so it's not an exclusively Catholic post.

"Secondly, the Scottish Executive accepted a new law in 2003 that said you cannot discriminate on the grounds of religion, so that's why I felt I was right to do what I've done.

'A fair deal'

"Not being a lawyer, not understanding how these things work, just being the poor chap who's had to fork out a lot of money for this case, I'm very glad I've won, and basically I hope it helps every other teacher in the future to get a fair deal in the promotion stakes.

"I just hope now everyone can go for every job - although I don't think that will happen."

M
82

Paid Off Handsomely,

27/06/2008 13:08:32
And some more for you


A teacher who describes himself as an atheist has won a religious discrimination case in Scotland, after a Catholic school denied him promotion. The Catholic Church in Scotland now says that local authorities should give it the power to pick and choose all teachers in the schools it operates.

The employment tribunal ruled that Glasgow City Council had discriminated against David McNab on the grounds of his religious beliefs by preventing him from applying for a promotion to a post involving pastoral care. He was awarded £2,000 compensation.

Under an agreement drawn up between the former Strathclyde region and the church in 1991, non-Catholics are excluded from certain key posts in denominational schools, such as headteacher, assistant head and teacher of religious education, biology or guidance. However, this week’s ruling stated that the 1980 Education (Scotland) Act “does not permit the Roman Catholic Church to reserve certain posts for teachers who are Roman Catholics”.

The Church insisted UK employment law allows employers to specify that having a religious belief is a “genuine and determining occupational requirement” (the legal term for permitted discrimination) in some jobs, such as those outlined in the 1991 agreement. On the other hand, one observer claimed that the only reason Mr McNab won was that the pastoral care post was a new job title which was not specifically mentioned in that agreement.

Mr McNab, 54, a maths teacher at St Paul’s Roman Catholic High School in the south side of Glasgow, went to the tribunal after he was refused an interview for the post because he is a non-Catholic. He told the tribunal he was made to feel like a second-class citizen when his headteacher, Robert O’Donnell, told him he could not be considered as the job required Catholic approval. The council argued it was a genuine occupational requirement for the post and denied discrimination on the grounds of religion or religious belief.
83

Geoff,

sa 27/06/2008 13:11:04
77 AJ-doin well Aj-hope to be "home" in Kintyre in September.
84

Geoff,

sa 27/06/2008 13:11:04
77 AJ-doin well Aj-hope to be "home" in Kintyre in September.
85

Geoff,

sa 27/06/2008 13:11:47
Meths will be lurking for the 100
86

monkey man,

27/06/2008 13:12:49
Roman Catholic faith schools in Scotland are a waste of time and taxpayers money and only perpetuate separation and religious bigotry. For a start they are academically complete failures with only ONE in the top fifty in the country. That RC's also make up a disproportionate amount of the Scottish prison population shows they had a poor social education as well. These schools serve no purpose whatsoever but for failing the children attending.
87

,

27/06/2008 13:16:23
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88

Geoff,

27/06/2008 13:17:09
99 Meths-or Ave Mazeltov!
100 Meths-a never ending source of wonder-do you have multiple pc screens monitoring every blog? Hope u are well. What do you think of this story?
89

Paid Off Handsomely,

27/06/2008 13:17:14
82

So you really expect us to believe this minister sent his/her children to an RC school?

Now you may well be telling the truth of course, so I'm only asking you to prove it. You told us about this minister and felt the need to do so.

So why not finish it all of and tell us the church at least.

I'll wait for a while to find out who this minister is...
90

Geoff,

sa 27/06/2008 13:20:30
103 Meths Monica Lewinsky would be a "head mistress'-perhaps in more ways than one!
91

Paid Off Handsomely,

27/06/2008 13:21:22
Vincent

No mental block herte, I'm only asking you to prove what you said.

I never mentioned ministers attending Catholic schools, you did Sir!

Now at least tell us the church then?
92

Paid Off Handsomely,

27/06/2008 13:23:38
103

Only in the PC world of the crackpot, not in downtown Glasgow.
93

,

27/06/2008 13:29:57
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94

senza nome,

27/06/2008 13:32:58
This theory that if you abolished Catholic schools all would be well and bigotry would disappear doesn't hold water.For example the village of Harthill, Lanarkshire has only ever had one primary school, a non-denominational one.Generations of children have gone there both Catholic and Protestant.My mother was one.You would then assume that Harthill must be a wonderful place of harmony and peace.You would be wrong.It is a hotbed of sectarianism.The reason is that parents pass on their prejudices in the home.After all kids are only at school for about six hours a day, while they are at home for the rest of the time.It never bothered me that i went to one school and my pals went to another.As soon as we got home from school we all played football together as friends. Then again none of our parents were bigots and that's the real source of the trouble.
95

,

27/06/2008 13:33:35
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96

Paid Off Handsomely,

27/06/2008 13:34:58
See what I mean about Goebels like propaganda folks. Vincent informs us about a minister's children attending an RC school. Now he may well be telling the truth. However I would imagine most people reading that, thought you were being slightly economical with the truth. Others would say you were talking complete boll ox and trying to point score.

I'm not saying which camp I belong to Vincent, other than to say, you can prove me wrong roght here, right now and I'll apologise in front of the watching world.

Then we have the comments "Catholics schools are better"

Now If I remeber correctly here, only one school out of 50, which was RC educated, made the top 50 of academic achievements according government statistics. So what's better?

It's very simple to prove folks, tell us the minister and show me where RC schools are better.
97

Richardinho,

27/06/2008 13:48:32
'Now If I remeber correctly here'
Unless you want to make the small effort to go and fish out the relevant statistics, such assertions are entirely worthless. I really don't put much faith in the accuracy of your memory.
98

chocolate,

glasgow 27/06/2008 13:50:59
i would just like to no why the roman catholic schools if so miltant about the poor children getting a religous education they do not allow the king james version of the holy bible to be read in the rc schools?
99

monkey man,

27/06/2008 13:52:22
Maybe in an act of equality Roman Catholics shouldn't be allowed to be Head Teacher of non-denominational schools to even up the balance.? Or is that sectarian discrimination.?
100

,

27/06/2008 13:54:11
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101

Jock MacTamson 2,

Highlands 27/06/2008 13:58:22
#112 senza nome

Is Lanarkshire not one of the most sectarian area's of Scotland. And do you not state mixed primary school but imply seperate seconary schools!

As I stated before very few Catholic Schools in the highlands and very fews biggots.

I want to be one of the posters who state "Scotlands Shame" but I feel it is more like "Rome's Shame"
102

Paid Off Handsomely,

27/06/2008 13:59:59
115

Too late, someone else has a better memory than me. Oh well Richard, another myth gone ehh.
103

Richardinho,

27/06/2008 14:00:33
the most notable thing about that list is that the best schools are in the most affluent areas.
104

monkey man,

27/06/2008 14:02:33
# 119

Don't blind the idiots with facts. They can't handle the truth that these "schools" are for perpetuating religious bigotry, end of story. They are a failure on every level imaginable.
105

Paid Off Handsomely,

27/06/2008 14:03:23
Janis B

You appear to be showing the early signs of paranoia. Where does it blame RC schools for bigotry in the west of Scotland.

And there was me thinking the story was about the first Protestant obtaining a mangement position within RC schools. Now that is bigotry Janis.

Now run along.............
106

Paid Off Handsomely,

27/06/2008 14:04:42
Are RC's not affluent Richard?
107

Paid Off Handsomely,

27/06/2008 14:08:14
Jeez oh Rich, you really are taking the biscuit with that excuse. Next you'll be telling us poor Kaffliks are downtrodden and only stay in poor areas.

1 school in the top 50, so why are the better?

Can anyone give me a straight answer to a straight question?
108

,

27/06/2008 14:08:26
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109

,

27/06/2008 14:13:53
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110

Paid Off Handsomely,

27/06/2008 14:15:36
115 said

'Now If I remeber correctly here'
Unless you want to make the small effort to go and fish out the relevant statistics, such assertions are entirely worthless. I really don't put much faith in the accuracy of your memory.

Bet you wish you hadn't said that now. Facts are there for all to see, and what does Rich say, "they are all in wealthy areas"

Now please forgive my ignorance here, but do RC's not have schools in affluent areas too? So the statistics show the truth and cannot be denied, even by the Goebels like tactics of Vincent and Richard.

1 school in the top 50 for academic achievement, yet we are constantly informed they are "better" than non denom schools.

Shame on the Scottish politicians for allowing the apartheid to continue.
111

Figgy,

www.vanguardbears.com 27/06/2008 14:17:35
well well,90 years of bigotry.I am suprised that the Euro courts haven't been onto this sham by now-how the RC hierarchy msut be fizzing that the press have actually stated this fact-yes 90 years people.
Wonder if said HEADTEACHER will have to use a different door or staff room-thats the norm when the RC has to work with the rest of the world.
112

Richardinho,

27/06/2008 14:18:23
You people are missing the point. When I look at that list, I find it concerning that all the 'best performing' schools are in affluent areas. Some of you seem to just look at it and see an opportunity to gloat about Catholic schools.
Please note that it is not my contention that Catholic schools are necessarily 'better' than other types of schools, but that Catholic schools are desired by parents. That is their ultimate determining factor.
113

Paid Off Handsomely,

27/06/2008 14:18:25
C'mon Vincent, admit the minister thread was tosh, you'll feel better for cleansing your sole.

How many hail mary's for telling porkies is that?
114

Richardinho,

27/06/2008 14:21:12
#130 'Bet you wish you hadn't said that now'

Not at all. You made assertions without bothering to back them up with evidence. It is only because I pointed this out that someone else (not you, notably) went scraping around looking for it on your behalf.
115

monkey man,

27/06/2008 14:23:52
#132

I'm sure there are parents out there that would "desire" white only schools. Should their warped views also be accommodated.? What about Protestant or RC only offices or factories as well.?
116

,

27/06/2008 14:25:44
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117

Richardinho,

27/06/2008 14:26:17
#135 That's a common argument from your sort, but is easily quashed. I can tell you what a Catholic education consists of, but what exactly is a 'white education'?
118

Con_B,

27/06/2008 14:26:37
#132. Got to be careful with the "affluent" argument Richarinho, as its based on a rcoky foundation....Although my family will be awfy pleased to know Greenock is an affluent area! (number 31)
119

Richardinho,

27/06/2008 14:27:19
#136 point out where you have 'proven me wrong' and I'll happily accept that.
120

Con_B,

27/06/2008 14:27:37
ref 138. I should also mention I didnt go to school there!
121

,

27/06/2008 14:32:35
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122

Stanley,

27/06/2008 14:32:38
#137 "That's a common argument from your sort"
And what "sort" is that. That an Alabama style comment then Richardinho?
123

monkey man,

27/06/2008 14:38:39
# 137

There is no difference and that's what needles you. In fact, bigoted whites would say they have more "right" to separate education for their children as they cannot change their skin colour but religious beliefs can be changed.

Should RC's be barred from the Head Teacher post at non-denom schools to ensure equality in the workplace.? Its not difficult.
124

Richardinho,

27/06/2008 14:46:55
#141 No, what I did was explain to POH that if he should always provide evidence for his arguments. I am delighted that he has accepted that admonition.
125

Richardinho,

27/06/2008 14:47:43
#143 That's not answering the question. Please explain what a 'white education' is.
126

Stanley,

27/06/2008 14:50:56
You missed out mine Richardinho, which for me says something. To remind ""That's a common argument from your sort"
What "sort" is that?
127

Richardinho,

27/06/2008 14:53:36
'And what "sort" is that. That an Alabama style comment then Richardinho?'

If you're silly enough to think that, then so be it.
128

monkey man,

27/06/2008 14:54:04
# 145

You've been owned on here by your utter failure to even answer one pertinent question. You must also be a product of one of these establishments.
129

Richardinho,

27/06/2008 14:55:41
#148 Stop stalling and just answer the question.
130

Stanley,

27/06/2008 14:56:15
#147 I go why what people say. What "sort" is it then Richardihno? Are we to assume things or will you actually explain....once you've finished taking a bit of one on this thread?
"sort"?
I wonder.....
131

Richardinho,

27/06/2008 14:58:18
"I go why what people say. What "sort" is it then Richardihno? "

People with appalling grammar.

132

monkey man,

27/06/2008 14:59:55
# 148

There is nothing to reply to. There is no difference between religious or racial indoctrination. Maybe you find that difficult to comprehend.?

RC schools are abject failures on both the academic and social fronts. They are an embarrassment to Scotland and the sooner they are rightfully discarded to the dustbin of history the better.
133

Stanley,

27/06/2008 15:00:59
#151 or cyber knobs who cant answer questions or would rather be seen as the net traffic warden? Worst kind of pompous Richardihno.What about this "sort" then?
Are you going to answer or are you too busy being made to look daft and isolated on this thread?
PS.I will go away for 10 minutes and let your wee cyber buddies get rounded up to join you on here!
fpmsl!
134

Richardinho,

27/06/2008 15:01:35
#152 You don't have an answer to the question, do you?
135

Richardinho,

27/06/2008 15:03:00
#153 Hopefully you'll spend that time learning to speak English properly.
136

monkey man,

27/06/2008 15:03:58
# 154

You don't even have the intelligence for reasoned debate or to be able defend your position. You've lost....now deal with it.
137

Stanley,

27/06/2008 15:06:47
#155 Measured for that traffic warden uniform then saddo!!??
fpmsl
Still no answer to "sort" mmmmm?
138

Richardinho,

27/06/2008 15:08:16
#156 Actually, I've won, since you have been shown unable to explain your own arguments under questioning.
139

Richardinho,

27/06/2008 15:09:57
Knowing what a sensitive issue this is, I've done my best to try and keep this debate civil. It's a shame that I see some posters are trying to drag it down into the gutter with petty insults.
140

monkey man,

27/06/2008 15:12:22
# 156

You've won.? lol
It would suggest not by the volume of fellow posters laughing at you. You seem unable to decipher plain English at the best of times.
141

Richardinho,

27/06/2008 15:17:16
#160 So now that bluster and evasion has failed you, I see you've resorted to intimidation through 'force of numbers'. I'm not impressed by that either.
142

monkey man,

27/06/2008 15:27:23
# 161

You can't even answer one simple question on the thread. With no rebuttal you've lost...get over it and move on.
143

Jock MacTamson 2,

Highlands 27/06/2008 15:27:51
Richardinho

I have no axe to grind but it is quiet clearly the case that you an in a minority of opinion and having been presented with facts and reason start making generalisation about people being of such and such a "SORT" when their has been no attempt at biggotry.

VitaVeritasVictoria pointed out the facts proving the RC schools are not the best. You then claimed they were all in affluent area's - Kyle ? Fortose ? Dornoch ? Ullapool ? these areas I know are not at all affluent.

You have been made to look foolish by persisting. Then you claim victory ?

I too am laughing at you. From a totally athiest perspective based simply on your ramblings and persistent posting of p1sh on this issue.

As for the force of numbers claim. You will find the truth often finds force of numbers on its side. Most people agree 2+2=4. Its not bullying its Fact.
144

Jock MacTamson 2,

Highlands 27/06/2008 15:29:52
#162 Monkey man

It is not very often I find myself agreeing with anything you post but facts are facts.
145

Richardinho,

27/06/2008 15:38:34
Jock-you simply have not followed the debate properly. I have never claimed that Catholic schools were the best. Nor did I claim that all the schools on that list were in affluent area. My observation on first glance is that a lot of the ones on that list are, and I find that of more concern than any of the sectarian reactions that some of my fellow posters had to it.
For my part I am not interested in petty points scoring and it's a shame that you have decided to become part of the 'mob mentality' which is sadly prevailing on this thread, rather than engage in the actual arguments.
146

Jock MacTamson 2,

Highlands 27/06/2008 15:44:26
#165 Richardinho

122 Richardinho,27/06/2008 14:00:33
the most notable thing about that list is that the best schools are in the most affluent areas.



147

SP1,

Edinburgh 27/06/2008 15:44:27
Across the board Catholic Schools are still well performing, full to capacity Schools that benefit the Scottish economy and society as a whole. They don't cause division as parents have a choice and can send their kids to private schools if they wish; they don't cause bigotry as that is taught at home. Decades ago you where all happy for us 'Papes' to be in separate schools now you want rid of them.....You should just be grateful that we have these excellent Schools that benefit Scotland and go on your merry way. Ban the Orange Order if you want to rid the menace of sectarianism in our country as they are the MAIN cause.
148

Richardinho,

27/06/2008 15:44:41
'You will find the truth often finds force of numbers on its side. Most people agree 2+2=4. Its not bullying its Fact.'

Well supporters of Catholic schools are well used to being in the minority, but if the quality of opposition to them on this thread is any indicator, then it's not surprising that they are still going strong after all these years!
149

Richardinho,

27/06/2008 15:47:36
#167
Jock-If you look at the schools at the top of the list, as far my knowledge of them goes, they are all in affluent areas.

But is this really the issue that you want to debate; whether all the schools or most of them are in affluent areas?
150

Paid Off Handsomely,

27/06/2008 15:47:48
Richard

Face facts here son, you are embarrassing yourself on this one. Trying to defend the apartheid system is extremely difficult for anyone, never mind a bigot like you.

As for me not providing the facts, you just don't get it do you? I asked that question, knowing fine well what the facts and ststistics were.

I knew fine well you were about to provide the Goebels like propaganda about how RC schools are supperior etc etc.

Alas, VVV provided the list before I did and made you look a complete fool, once again. As for the affluent area nonsense, bet that's the first time Greenock has been called that for a long time.

Richardinho for Greenock mayor I say.

1 school in the top 50, being sued by teachers for religious discrimination, condemned by the EIS for unfair and discriminatory employment practices, 1 Protestant head teacher, rampant false propaganda, and they say RC schools are "better"

Apartheid and bigotry are alive and breeding in the sectarian RC school system
151

Jock MacTamson 2,

Highlands 27/06/2008 15:50:24
71 Richardinho,27/06/2008 12:42:51

...The comparison isn't really valid since Catholicism and Protestantism are really quite different religions.
The whole point of Protestantism is that people are free to practice religion in their own way. Hence why there are so many varieties of 'protestantism' whilst Catholicism is a united church.

[No the point was to follow the bible and not deviate and stop woshiping idols, symbols, virgin mary, glorigying the church, wasting all the money of fat bishops, controlling the population, etc, etc.I think the reformation was very clear in its goals]

At any rate there simply isn't any demand for 'Protestant' schools. if there was then people would vote for them.

[correct education should be about education not fairy stories]
152

Paid Off Handsomely,

27/06/2008 15:51:57
170

Re-arrange these words son

straws st clutching.....Tell me Richard, are the facts correct or don't you believe them?

1 school in the top 50, 1 Protestant head teacher, sued for religious discrimination, Teaching unions condemning the bigotry.

But hey Richard, I almost forgot, RC's are tax payers too, so we should all shut up and accept their bigotry and discrimination.
153

monkey man,

27/06/2008 15:52:27
# SP1

RC schools should be closed because of their poor academic record alone. ONE school in the top 50 in Scotland says it all.
154

Richardinho,

27/06/2008 15:52:53
#171 I've never read Goebels myself, but you seem to be well versed in his writings.
I'm delighted that I've been able to teach you of the importance of providing evidence to back up assertions.
I'm slightly confused why you think I wouldn't be.
155

Richardinho,

27/06/2008 15:56:58
'No the point was to follow the bible and not deviate and stop woshiping idols, symbols, virgin mary, glorigying the church, wasting all the money of fat bishops, controlling the population, etc, etc.I think the reformation was very clear in its goals'

I'm well aware of the original protestants' aversion to statues and religious painting-consequently, it always raises a wry smile whenever I go into a CofS church and see numerous stained glass windows of the virgin mary, the saints et all-or even in St Giles, a statue of John Knox!
156

Stanley,

27/06/2008 15:57:08
"sort"?
mmmm?
157

Jock MacTamson 2,

Highlands 27/06/2008 16:06:30
#176 - Richardinho

If this is what a RC education told you about the reformation then I suggest you get onto google and spend some time reading.

The movement began as an attempt to reform the Catholic Church. Many western Catholics were troubled by what they saw as false doctrines and malpractices within the Church, particularly involving the teaching and sale of indulgences. Another major contention was the practice of buying and selling church positions (simony) and what was seen at the time as considerable corruption within the Church's hierarchy. This corruption was seen by many at the time as systemic, even reaching the position of the Pope.
158

Richardinho,

27/06/2008 16:11:31
#178 You've never heard of 'iconoclasm' then?
159

Paid Off Handsomely,

27/06/2008 16:14:37
Richard

Evidence was provided and you refuted the proof, with some nonsense about affluent areas.

Now why don't you contact Vincent and get him to back up his nonsense about the minister?

I'm afraid you are looking a tad silly now my friend. Defending bigotry, discrimination and children apartheid, is never an east thing to support though. But you seem so brainwashed and bigoted, you don't care about good or evil, just the RC way and that's it.

Indeed I would wager RC's like you Rich, would be the very first people to scream about bigotry if RC's were denied teaching jobs on the grounds of religion.

If it walks like a bigot, talks like a bigot, then it's a bigot Rich.

Scotland's not so hidden shame, RC apartheid schools.
160

Stanley,

27/06/2008 16:18:33
#186 Watch out, you said east instead of easy.Thats Dicks chosen method of deflection. Go for the mature spelling and grammar snobbery. anallus pickus upus sillius
n'at
161

Jock MacTamson 2,

Highlands 27/06/2008 16:18:38
Richardinho

I just checked what the Catholic Encyclopedia states.
It has more bull sh!t that you. Is this what they teach at RC schools. If so they should all be shut.

Results and consequences of the Reformation
The Reformation destroyed the unity of faith and ecclesiastical organization of the Christian peoples of Europe, cut many millions off from the true Catholic Church, and robbed them of the greatest portion of the salutary means for the cultivation and maintenance of the supernatural life. Incalculable harm was thereby wrought from the religious standpoint. The false fundamental doctrine of justification by faith alone, taught by the Reformers, produced a lamentable shallowness in religious life. Zeal for good works disappeared, the asceticism which the Church had practised from her foundation was despised, charitable and ecclesiastical objects were no longer properly cultivated, supernatural interests fell into the background, and naturalistic aspirations aiming at the purely mundane, became widespread. The denial of the Divinely instituted authority of the Church, both as regards doctrine and ecclesiastical government, opened wide the door to every eccentricity, gave rise to the endless division into sects and the never-ending disputes characteristic of Protestantism, and could not but lead to the complete unbelief which necessarily arises from the Protestant principles. Of real freedom of belief among the Reformers of the sixteenth century there was not a trace; on the contrary, the greatest tyranny in matters of conscience was displayed by the representatives of the Reformation."


162

Richardinho,

27/06/2008 16:19:07
#186 I asked for evidence and you (or someone on your behalf) provided it. I'm confused that you seem to see that as some kind of 'victory'. So be it. I'm happy to acknowledge that this list exists and says what you say it does.
163

Richardinho,

27/06/2008 16:20:58
#190 Compared to some of the things I've heard protestants say about Catholicism, that seems relatively mild.
164

Figgy,

www.vanguardbears.com 27/06/2008 16:31:08
168

what board would that be across?

1 in the top 50 isn't performing well across any board I could think of.

Simple question-why is it when a non RC points out a fact there are deemed a bigot?
Is the outlet that provides such figures,such as the EIS bigotted for speaking the truth?
One would think so-therefore why not scrap the underperforming and join with the mainstream education that is working so obviously well.
What prevents one from wishing that?
165

Richardinho,

27/06/2008 16:34:07
'One would think so-therefore why not scrap the underperforming and join with the mainstream education that is working so obviously well.
What prevents one from wishing that?'

are you sure that the 'mainstream' is performing well? Just from that list? I fear you are over simplifying things according to your own prejudice.
166

Paid Off Handsomely,

27/06/2008 16:34:24
196

Richard said much the same...only RC's should be in charge of RC schools he said.

And yet they scream about others being bigots?????

Apartheid, bigotry and discrimination, all in a days work for RC bigots in Scotland.
167

Richardinho,

27/06/2008 16:39:25
#200 If your job is to provide a Catholic education, then you have to be a Catholic. What is bigoted about that?
168

,

27/06/2008 16:43:28
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169

Paid Off Handsomely,

27/06/2008 17:13:57
201

You just don't get it, do you Richard? So there we have it folks, straight from the bigots mouth.

The morally superior RC children, must only be taught by RC teachers.

Are Protestant and Muslim teachers not up to providing the moral standards for RC children Rich? If the moral giudance is so good, why are so many Roman Catholics in prison compared to the rest of society?

Surely something must be going wrong if these schools are breeding grounds for future crooks and criminals?

Go on Richard, I dare you to deny the stats on this one. What's the bets when he sees the Catholic prison population, he'll say.....

Most appear to come from affluent areas

bwhahahaha
170

Paid Off Handsomely,

Bassetlaw 27/06/2008 17:19:19
Rich = bigot said

If your job is to provide a Catholic education, then you have to be a Catholic. What is bigoted about that?

Why is this woman being given this job then Richard? Have the bigots in Rome finally been persuaded Scotland will no longer allow the blatant sectarianism which is there for all to see, to continue?

Whites much teach whites, Protestants must teach only Protestants, Muslims teaching Muslims only...... sounds like the work of a fascist if you ask me.

171

,

27/06/2008 17:34:07
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
172

Richardinho,

27/06/2008 17:34:13
#205 Yes, anyone who disagrees with you is a 'bigot'. How childish.
Rather than throwing around ad hominems, perhaps you could explain the very simple question, how can a non-Catholic provide a Catholic education?

173

Jock MacTamson 2,

Highlands 27/06/2008 18:54:53
#209 Methalions

Totally agree. No special schools for special SECTS then there is not SECTARIANISM. Education and religion should not be mixed. Their is surely not RC maths, or Muslim Chemistry, etc, etc.

#210 - Janis B - Please see Glasgow and Northern Ireland full of seperate schools and biggotry at a very young age. Then visit the Highlands or Aberdeenshire where there are very few RC Schools and the kids mix with no problems.

Seperation is the foundation of biggotry in Scotland.
174

monkey man,

27/06/2008 19:40:28
#213

There ARE racial problems in the North of England, Bradford, Leeds, etc, with schools dominant with either Muslims or nominally Christians. Separating young children into different schools on the grounds of religion is in itself morally wrong.

As for Scotland, RC schools are failures on every level, academically and socially.

175

london calling,

27/06/2008 19:50:17
What actually concerns me is the years of sexual abuse by members of the roman catholic and COVER UPS..
Sending the guilty to new parishes in some unassuming country..The thought of the roman catholic church finding this acceptable and non catholic teachers as abhorrent should be investigated, if it looks like and sounds like and smells like........... it must be bigotry.............
176

monkey man,

27/06/2008 20:12:16
# 217

If that tale is true, which it may no doubt be, it is a result of the sectarian apartheid in Scottish education which has fostered tribalism and such views where each tribe "looks after its own" and discounts those not of their own.

We quite rightly wouldn't tolerate mono-religious workplaces,factories or offices so why schools where so much long term damage can be imbued into youngsters. ?
177

Green Jock,

27/06/2008 20:21:54
As someone who was born in the Borders I find it sad to read this news as I thought that the area was free of the religious nonsense which prevails in other parts of Scotland. The cooments from the Parent`s Association representative are particularly disappointing but, unfortunately , very predictable as I suppose she is a product (victim?) of the system. Am sure the majority of Scots including many RCs would prefer to see the end to segregation but politicians are too scared to stand up and say so. Role of C of S in non/inter denominational schools needs to be looked at too. Why are pupils being taken to C of S churches at Christmas, Easter and even end of term like today if C of S membership only represents about 20% of our population?
178

indune1,

Canada 27/06/2008 21:53:45

This whole story and ensuing thread only strengthens my opinion that organised religion is plain daft and dangerous.

Agnostic anyone?
179

Eve,

Scotland 27/06/2008 23:12:31
Can't belive there is so many comments on this page.

The religion of a teacher shouldn't matter and shouldn't be displayed in a paper in this manner. She (or he) should be just allowed to get on with her job.

Whats important is the teacher has passion, an ability to do there job and want to teach/ work with young people.
180

Horrible Cankers at the Cyber Shebeen,

27/06/2008 23:42:46
89....Why the bile?....I went to a non-denominational school where they tried to make me believe in JC and his cronies....which I thoroughly object to...as a child my mind should have been protected and not subjected to the fantasies and superstitions of other people...others in my family had it worse...were Catholics and as such were subjected to such intense indoctrination that even though they are no longer 'believers' they still carry the guilty Catholic conscience like a compulsory tool for self-flagellation...

...congratulations on your experiences but it is my strongest belief that religion is a tool of control and something that humans have translated into something useful to suit their own ends....it exploits fear, confusion and vulnerability...and is ultimately wicked....

...Leave the children alone...let them decide as adults if they want to believe in the conscience that troubles their parents.......
181

Jacobus,

East of Glasgow 28/06/2008 00:45:01
In the fairly recent past I attended my daughter's graduation from a one year primary teaching course at Glasgow University. Entry was very strictly controlled. I was surprised to find that the graduation ceremony was preceded by a celebration of high mass by a number of high ranking Roman catholic clergy and during the ceremony itself the parents, relatives and guests were expected to participate in RC hymns and prayers. I estimate that of the 300 graduates about 10% were non-catholic. My first thoughts were that I had entered the wrong hall. Then I remembered my daughter telling me of discussion groups during her course where RC students explained why they would make superior teachers to non-RC students. It then dawned on me that the whole primary school educational training establishment at Glasgow University is run by the RC church. Why?
182

indune1,

Canada 28/06/2008 03:11:56

"Can't belive there is so many comments on this page."

Wake up Eve. Religion is preventing the very teaching ideals you espouse.
183

weeshooie1,

Wollongong 28/06/2008 03:59:18
HC #222,

Hullawrer Canky, Nice tae see ye still drap in occasionally. I don't dae it too often maself these days. There are an awfy lot of comments jist because wan wummin goat hersel a joab, eh? Mind you, ah'm sure that if the fictional character known as JC or 'The Big Yin' could actually make an appearance, the last thing he wid like tae see wid be a cross. Too many bad memories, eh? :0)
184

Figgy,

www.vanguardbears.com 28/06/2008 09:38:23
199

oversimplifying things because of my own prejudice?
well that just backed up my earlier posts about using stated FACTS gets you called a bigot-yes?

now lets see here the second report in as many years ,sees one denom school in the top 50-an earlier one several years before that had two-standards must be slipping.

So yes I must be suiting my own prejudices and made it all up.


185

Horrible Cankers at the Cyber Shebeen,

28/06/2008 22:50:10
225...Hi Weeshooie...aye you could be right there...could be some choice language as well I should imagine....anyroad nice to see you are still kicking aroon...wis wunnerin whaur ye wir holed up...I sign in when ah kin be érsed...which is less and less these days but hey ho...life goes on!

 

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