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Tram mock-up 'is one of Scotland's top attractions'

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Published Date: 03 March 2009
By ALASTAIR DALTON
A LIFE-SIZED tram model has been described as "one of Scotland's busiest visitor attractions" by Edinburgh city council after 22,000 people climbed aboard in its first week.
The council said a poll of visitors showed 80 per cent were impressed, while TIE, its tram firm, said there was "a real sense of excitement" among people viewing the mock-up.

Steve Cardownie, the SNP deputy leader of the council's ruling Liberal Democrat-SNP coalition, said: "The vast number of people having a look were just walking past – I do not think they made their way there specially. To describe the tram model as one of Scotland's busiest attractions is putting a great degree of spin on it."

The 130ft mock-up is sited in Princes Street, where little work has taken place since it closed to traffic ten days ago.

Further peace talks were held yesterday between TIE and Bilfinger Berger, the firm at the centre of a dispute over the construction contract.







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1

Douglas,

Bathgate 03/03/2009 00:18:07
Seek help, urgently!
2

Hmm ...,

03/03/2009 00:21:28
... I thought tie said that it was a 2/3 size mock-up.

Just goes to show that you can't believe a word that tie says!
3

,

03/03/2009 00:32:38
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
4

,

03/03/2009 00:33:58
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
5

Julian.,

edinburgh 03/03/2009 00:40:58
Nice bit of spin from Cardownie as well:-

"The vast number of people having a look were just walking past – I do not think they made their way there specially"

And your evidence for that is? Just a guess was it?

Even if it were true does that mean we don't count the visitors to other attractions who were just walking past and decided to go in?
6

Theologist,

Auckland 03/03/2009 01:05:55
I was planning to give the 'Homecoming' a miss, but I'm not so sure now.
7

truthsleuth,

03/03/2009 01:12:45
You poor anti tram dinosaurs.

The tram will be a success your problem is you may lose a bit of road space that you believe YOU have paid for.

8

Solo Lobo,

03/03/2009 01:13:23
When the public start getting charged for admission to the trams the numbers of "visitors" will drop significantly. These are likely to be the best figures the tramline will ever see.

If this "mock-up" is really 130 ft. long then it's time to get yourselves down to Specsavers, I went today and guess who I bumped into? Bloody everyone!
9

Julian.,

edinburgh 03/03/2009 02:17:11
Paolo # 7,

Some nice debating points but:-

(1) Who called it a tourist attraction? Only you have said that.

(2) So other attractions require an "interest (galleries etc.)". Just a hunch but I suspect most of those visiting the mock tram had an interest as well.

(3) Surely a visitor attraction is something which attracts visitors...the mock tram would seem to fit that description. Liking what you see when you get there is a different matter.

I know it pains anti-trammies like you and Cardownie to think that lots of people visited this tram not just because they were passing but I suppose guessing the facts is what you guys are good at:-)
10

Letters From Muscat,

edinburgh 03/03/2009 03:43:32
Stop the trams fill up the spaces get embrs back to norman and get the lotyhian buses back to their original stops..... embra even can't abide the city centre, with all these roadworks. dO THE BUS DRIVERS KNOW WHERE THEY ARE GOING? how much is it going to cost now? have they put a cap on the final budget? Who voted for this shambles? not me....Get rid of the tartan tat shops in what was once a spectacular street. who allows them to trade there? Paint all the window frames in pRINCES sTREET WHITE AND YOU WILL SEE A UNIFYING DIFFERENCE ONLY A SUGGESTION......
11

Forward not Back,

03/03/2009 04:38:11
Oh look. Another story about trams that doesn't discuss the fact that Edinburgh council taxpayers are about to be shafted to make up the black hole in the budget, because almost all the property developments on or near the line have collapsed. Perhaps the tram lovers would care to comment on that?
12

Euan,

Edinburgh 03/03/2009 06:52:59
#13

Well said and all very true.

Maybe people are simply interested in seeing a 'mock-up' of the monstrosity they will be paying through the nose for for the next 40 years.

After all, it's always nice to see where your hard-earned cash is going, especially when it is being wasted before your very eyes..

13

an interested party,

03/03/2009 07:16:58
people are viewing and mock
14

Liam,

03/03/2009 07:49:38
Cardownie and his Nationalist buddies on the Council need to learn to stop sulking. In fact, they should stop sounding so anti-Edinburgh and try and embrace trams, even if their Highland/west of Scotland SNP overlords are telling them not to. It's about time the Nats showed that they were committed to some form of public transport investment in the nation's capital. They can't go on supporting the cancellation of every project - trams, airport rail link etc - and then have the electorate seriously believe that they have the remotest interest in improving public transport and reversing congestion in Edinburgh. The blank cheques, it seems, are always for the road projects with the Nats - A9, M74. Even if the SNP committed to something like the re-opening of the Edinburgh south suburban line to passengers they would restore some credibility on transport issues in Edinburgh. As it is, to call for "mair buses" has to be the most clueless and cynical pledge of their administration. Does anyone honestly believe what Princes Street needs is more buses??
15

Scoop in the City,

03/03/2009 08:05:01
#17 - As someone who has a lot of sympathies with the thought of Scottish independance, I can say that the actions of the SNP and especially Cardownie and Salmond since they have taken power have turned me right off this idea.

Independance - Yes, SNP govenment - never.
16

Edinburgh Ian,

Edinburgh 03/03/2009 08:25:39
The trams are based on a flawed economic argument rendered null and void by the recession. The projected increase in passenger numbers will not happen as developers are going bust all over the City. This means there will never be the revenue to give the return required for the project. The result - Lothian Buses (who will be responsible for the trams) will have to increase fares and cut back services in Edinburgh which will lead to more people driving cars on the roads.
17

PJ,

Edinburgh 03/03/2009 08:39:04
"22,000 people climbed aboard in its first week."

That will be more than the real one will get in a year!

18

Dragonlord,

03/03/2009 08:43:28
6# As half of Princes st is closed to pedestrians where else will people walk? One side of the street is crowded and it just so happens to be where the tram toy is.How many of those who do not want the trams will bother to go see this toy? How many will deliberatley go into the chaos that is Edinburgh, just to see a toy tram?
Tie and the Council need the possitive spin, no-one else, so I know who I beleive.
19

Curious Yellow,

Edinburgh 03/03/2009 09:11:09
"22,000 people climbed aboard" - and they;re still waiting for it move.......
20

aljok.23,

the world 03/03/2009 09:16:31
Scotlands top target for eggs!!?!
21

Mallory,

Edinburgh 03/03/2009 09:21:33
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KQ1m6sTEThI

22,000 folk climbed aboard - how many had bus passes?

22

Acrass,

Edinburgh 03/03/2009 09:25:08
As if Princes Street wasn't busy enough.
23

Mon the Hibees,

Edinburgh 03/03/2009 09:27:50
I think the trams are a waste of much needed money and i think they'll cost a lot more than first anticipated. Why not just run shuttle buses with bio fuel if they want to save the enviroment.
24

brando,

Edinburgh 03/03/2009 09:28:25
should'nt be tram mock-up it should be tram c_ck-up, the bus services are up in the air right now. Traveling round Edinburgh is terrible, all just for tourism, what benifit is it to us.
25

J-Paul,

Edinburgh 03/03/2009 09:28:51
I would like to see the money could beem used for (NEW SCHOOL,HOSPITAL,NEW HOME)
26

Sedov,

03/03/2009 09:29:38
Trams, Trams, Trams, Trams... Trams.
Spam , Spam, Spam, Spam.
Trams Trams Trams Trams.
27

Daryl .. ,

Edinburgh 03/03/2009 09:31:26
I think its a waste of money and time. And it has made the traffic murder
28

craigc123,

Port Seton 03/03/2009 09:31:41
i think it is a waste of time and money because edinburgh has a good bus service. and it causing alot of trouble on the roads of edinburgh.
29

craigc123,

PORT SETON 03/03/2009 09:32:16
GET IT SORTED!!!!!
30

brando,

Edinburgh 03/03/2009 09:32:35
I want to know how much its cost up to now, and how much is it gona cost us from now on, i think its a big joke.
31

caroline grant,

edinburgh 03/03/2009 09:33:06
think it is a total waste of money do we really need trams.
32

Sheilamike,

Edinburgh 03/03/2009 09:34:22
Why do we need trams? There is sufficient bus services around the city. The streets are a total mess. Half the public don't know what is going on. I'm an exbusdriver and i am glad i don't have to put up with this farce. Waste of money. Kids will enjoy it. You only have to listen to public views. They will be crammed trams. The big question, what is the cost going to be?
33

Dannii_G,

wallyford 03/03/2009 09:34:26
I think the trams are a very stupid idea. They have made the traffic going into Edinburgh discraceful. They are there for the tourists. I think the buses are perfectly fine and are much cheaper than the trams are going to be.
Big up tae ma homies in Int.1 Computin' ....
34

Lewisman abroad,

Denmark 03/03/2009 09:34:53
WTF is the problem with everyone against the trams.... My only regret about this whole problem is that it doesnt go far enough... it deffo should go up the bridges also....as for all this SNP bashing it's so typical of the Edinbro types with thier pseudo union mentality. As for the SNP having a Highland/West of Scotland leaning....it's about bloody time somebody did as it's been badly lacking for decades.
35

brando,

Edinburgh 03/03/2009 09:35:01
I agree it is a waste of time and money.
36

J-Paul,

Edinburgh 03/03/2009 09:36:13
i think the ofters comments are right to the trams his are a big joke and waste of money.
37

Acrass,

Edinburgh 03/03/2009 09:36:28
(Responce to brando at comment 29)
I agree it's all just for tourism, I also don't see them staying very long after the "Wow!" of the trams are over.
38

craigc123,

port seton 03/03/2009 09:38:29
comment to guy from denmark what are the trams like across there ? are they better than the bus service ?
39

Dannii_G,

Edinburgh/ Wallyford 03/03/2009 09:39:02
I also think that the trams are shocking because it means I will have to dodge even more traffic for ma bottle ae BUCKY! ....absolutely shockin mate.
40

caroline grant,

edinburgh 03/03/2009 09:39:13
love the comment from number 38 she knows what she is talking about
41

Dannii_G,

Edinburgh/ Wallyford 03/03/2009 09:40:45
thanks number 45..your comment(number 36) was great!..
YOU GO GURL!! mmmhmmm =D
42

J-Paul,

Edinburgh 03/03/2009 09:40:50
did the inspector come onto check you tickets and your bus pass.
43

El Franko,

Dagenham 03/03/2009 09:42:06
Fantastico! This object must be preserved as a monument, perhaps with a plaque listing the names of all the councillors and advisors who pushed for the trams. The electric buses and cars that one day will take us about the place will easily be able to drive round it, a versatility denied to brother trams.
44

Mon the Hibees,

Edinburgh 03/03/2009 09:42:38
Wot's happnin homies
45

craigc123,

portseton 03/03/2009 09:43:57
el franko why do you like the trams so much are there trams down in dagenham ?
46

tog,

Edinburgh 03/03/2009 09:44:20
I think most of these people were just on the way to see Scotland's largest tourist attraction. The large scale recreation of the battle of the Somme that is currently being acted out in central Edinburgh.

I am sure Mr Cardownie was recently appointed to the role of advocate for the trams or some similar post. Is he still doing this because he seems to be going about it in a funny way. Ten days since the closure and no real news about work starting on the trams clearly so yet another non-story about them.
47

Mon the Hibees,

Edinburgh 03/03/2009 09:46:41
Someone should take a paintball gun and re-paint the tram lol
48

Dannii_G,

Edinburgh/Wallyford 03/03/2009 09:47:07
Hi Tog... is this you saying that you like the trams? or are you undecided?
49

brando,

Edinburgh 03/03/2009 09:47:55
what do u think
50

Daryl .. ,

03/03/2009 09:48:08
Craig why are you so against it? not as if you'll be anywhere near it anyway as you live in port seaton/tattie land.
51

Dannii_G,

Edinburgh/Wallyford 03/03/2009 09:49:42
Happnin' peeps! ... hows th crew fae Int.1 Computin' feelin th day then? . . . Caroline ya radgemitan!
hahahaha jus jokin =D . . ....holla bak homies hahaha
52

craigc123,

portseton 03/03/2009 09:49:52
daryl the only tatties youll be pickin in the ones coming out your ears.
53

Sheilamike,

Edinburgh 03/03/2009 09:50:30
(Lewis man,) I used to be a bus driver so i ken what it is like on the streets of Edinburgh. No doubting ur comments. Personally I think it is a waste of time and money when our bus service works fine. Trams might work fine abroad, but here i don,t think so.
54

caroline grant,

edinburgh 03/03/2009 09:50:34
tog man love the comment tourist attraction thats all unless you where brought up with them i think we are going to find it hard to ajust to them
55

Daryl .. ,

03/03/2009 09:51:42
make sence craig.
56

Sheilamike,

Edinburgh 03/03/2009 09:56:54
The roads are getting narrow and the car drivers are having a nightmare as where to drive to get home or to get to work. Trams no consideration for your every day drivers.
57

Leila,

Edinburgh 03/03/2009 10:16:52
The Edinburgh tram scheme is just so unnecessary. Why are we allowing the city to be dug up at great expense and with massive disruption, for a fixed inflexible tramline, when it would have been easier, cheaper and more effective just to buy far less polluting vehicles than the current buses. They could have been manufactured for whatever capacity of passengers we wanted, and they could have travelled on priority routes. Aren't those the three main things trams are supposed to achieve? Or is the main motive for trams a political one?
58

tartangladbach,

edinburgh 03/03/2009 10:17:13
when's a tram not a tram? when it's a tie tram!
59

Toom,

03/03/2009 10:18:10
Apparently, each tram will have 78 seats and room for 170 standing passengers. So, more like a cattle truck than a modern public transport system then.
60

tartangladbach,

edinburgh 03/03/2009 10:18:26
how much of this projects funds have been spent on the public relations company?
61

AJ Fife,

03/03/2009 10:30:38
Is it fire proof?
62

Duncan in Edinburgh,

03/03/2009 10:42:48
This tram story [confirms|does not confirm] my world view and I am therefore [delighted|furious], feel [vindicated|betrayed] and wish ill on every poster who does not agree with me.

This proves that [I was right all along|TIE are liars].
63

AJ Fife,

03/03/2009 10:51:09
Dunc#67,

I suppose sitting on the fence has a certain attraction for you.
64

Duncan in Edinburgh,

03/03/2009 11:04:53
#68 What a scurrilous remark AJ. I have never been a Lib Dem.
65

Proghead,

Edinburgh 03/03/2009 11:15:38
Cardownie's boss, wee Eck, tells him to rubbish the trams at every opportunity coz he hates the fact the Exec is based in Edinburgh. The wee teuchter wants the heart of an independent peoples republic in the Heelans." Tell them it's gonna cost 'em millions pal, they'll heid fur the hills" Meanwhile the good folks of Auld Reekie are reverting to type with the luddite mentality about the trams, ignoring the fact the buses have been rubbish for years since deregulation. Same type who moan every August when the foreigners (i.e English ) descend and spend millions. Welcome to modern Edinburgh. Fun fun
66

Finnzz,

03/03/2009 11:22:49
This tram sounds a lot like the Labour Party. Glossy and shiny on the outside but disappointing and not fit for purpose on the inside. I doubt if it even has any room for some policies.

Plus its routed to the spot.
67

as13,

Sunderland 03/03/2009 11:37:56
well I think it's great!!
I mean, once the trams are in, there's already a castle, all Ediburgh will need is a couple of rollercoasters (maybes in the gardens?) and then they can rebrand it - "Disney Land Resort Edinburgh" or maybe "ScotDisney"?
Aye...I think that could be the answer....all the tartan tat shops could diversify and start selling Mickey Mouse toys (in kilts of course)...
68

Duncan in Edinburgh,

03/03/2009 11:44:41
#71 In what sense is the Labour Party glossy and shiny on the outside?

And the word you're looking for is "rooted", as in, with roots.

Overall 3/10, poor.
69

RufusT-Firefly,

03/03/2009 11:44:46
22,000 in a week?

So thats 3142 people a day.

If it is open 8 hours a day, thats 392 people an hour.

Whichs works out at nearly 7 people a minute.

Which works out a 1 person visiting it every 8 seconds?

I reckon they need to get some new people counters.

Whenever I have passed it, a lot of the time it barely has a couple of people on it.

70

Galaman,

Galashiels 03/03/2009 11:48:10
I wonder if it's a big attraction because it will probably be the only one the city will ever see?
71

grandmamag,

hamilton 03/03/2009 11:57:35
if anyone weas in that tram it was because they couldn't go anywhere else, Princes Street is such an incredible mess - and notably, last week we came past the tram four times in one day, and at no point did we see anyone inside! Apart from it being a cold, rainy day, who in their right mind wants to walk about inside a stationary tram? Ah well...
72

Sedov,

03/03/2009 12:02:12
This reminds of the pre-tram debate in Sheffield which is now history such is the success of their trams.

When the trams finally get on track and it proves, like Sheffield and Manchester to be a success the many anti-tram posters will be left with a huge empty space in their lives to fill.

Perhaps they can take a trip to Granton Pier - on the tram.
73

Duncan in Edinburgh,

03/03/2009 12:02:42
#74 Unless... visitors were in groups of more than one!
74

craigc123,

03/03/2009 12:10:58
bring on the trumpets
75

Proghead,

Edinburgh 03/03/2009 13:00:32
#77 Sedov
Good one - you didn't finish the last sentence tho'. I assume you mean ' then jump off '
76

Proghead,

Edinburgh 03/03/2009 13:07:55
#81
Aye, and Wee Eck wants to build trams there instead. Can you put trams up on bricks ?
77

Duncan in Edinburgh,

03/03/2009 13:12:54
Well I have just wandered along the road to see the thing and I'm quite impressed, not only with the look of it but with the numbers of people there; there must have been about 20-odd people milling about when I arrived, and people passing through all the time. Plenty of interested folk asking polite questions and getting detailed responses from the staff. Lots of people filling out surveys, though I didn't have time to stop and do one myself.

Yep, very good. Roll on the trams.
78

Eliz,

Edinburgh 03/03/2009 14:23:27
Answer to all the problems: mount the mock-up outside the Council offices so that it is available for Jenny and all her crew to wander in and out of every day - in fact, keep it open to the pro-trammies with their anoraks and charge them 10p a go. Meanwhile give us back Edinburgh and sack TIE.
79

Liz,

Edinburgh 03/03/2009 14:53:42
Well I would go and visit it but sadly the bus diversions and the general congestion caused by the roadworks mean that I cant be bothered making the effort to get to that part of town any more.
80

Geomac 1,

Scotland 03/03/2009 16:19:20
Tourist attraction??????? Surely the vast majority are there to see what they are actually getting for £1 billion (or in another currency - 2.2 Scottish parliaments!!)
81

Ecce,

Edinburgh 03/03/2009 17:22:49
Let's have a referendum NOW! Simple question: scrap the trams YES/NO? Send a copy to every name on the Edinburgh electoral register. Could be organised in a couple of weeks if the Coonsel wisny run by numpties. If they get a "yes" vote, the coonsellors are vindicated and work can proceed (once they get their act together, of course) If "no", scrap it now. And to those who would moan about the expense, just think what the present shambles might end up costing us all.
82

Ecce,

Edinburgh 03/03/2009 17:24:02
Sorry, I meant the other way round!
83

Snails dont like curry and chips,

Edinburgh 03/03/2009 18:11:13
One of Scotlands' busiest tourist attractions - how much more utter cr*p can Edinburgh Council come out with to try to justify this appalling white elephant.
84

EH12...,

03/03/2009 18:56:35
Given the economic downturn, is the viability of the trams project being reviewed?

The business plan (section 9.103) outlines the assumptions behind the trams breaking even: the plan assumes 50% of demand between haymarket and the airport and 30% of the demand between leith and haymarket will be from new development. Failure to meet this assumption will result in a loss.
85

The west awake,

Argyll 03/03/2009 19:52:43
Liam - "They can't go on supporting the cancellation of every project - trams, airport rail link etc - and then have the electorate seriously believe that they have the remotest interest in improving public transport and reversing congestion in Edinburgh. The blank cheques, it seems, are always for the road projects with the Nats - A9, M74"

- This mail is off the scale for stupid.

Firstly, the M74 extension was started by the Lab/Libs and merely (and sensibly) ratified by the SNP, why - to relieve the massive congestion in Scotlands largest city - clue -it's not Edinburgh.
Secondly, in the place of Edinburghs daft wee trams toodling along, we in Argyll could have had the worst road in Scotland upgraded, the A82. This legacy from Labours time is a disaster, a main commerce and tourist route north which is extremely dangerous and slow, indeed a set of "temporary" traffic lights on Loch Lomondside recently celebrated its 30th birthday!!
I would concede perhaps though to a highlander who can point to the SNPs plan to dual the A9 - Scotlands most dangerous road - you know - where people actually die?

- Enjoy your wee trams, I hope you pay through the nose for them too. I for one will be enraged if the Scottish Govt agree to bale out this project. This is an Edinburgh mess, and you must pay for it.
86

Old Cartha Boy,

05/03/2009 09:57:15
I'm waiting for Jenny Dawe to say" This proves for once and for all that Edinburgh people want this project. Visitors to the tram commented that their journey was so smooth they hadn't even noticed they were moving". (TV footage will show TIE staff running along the street to give the illusion of the tram gliding along the street).

 

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