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City business leaders hail U-turn on local income tax

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Published Date: 12 February 2009
CITY business leaders today welcomed the Scottish Government's U-turn on its plans for a local income tax.
Edinburgh Chamber of Commerce hailed the announcement by Finance Secretary John Swinney that the SNP has ditched its plans to scrap the council tax as a "decent and sensible" move.

Chamber chief executive Ron Hewitt said: "John Swinney is to be co
ngratulated for taking a pragmatic approach. As he is well aware, this proposal has had the strongest possible opposition from the business community.

"Given the difficulties facing so many businesses through the economic downturn, it was just the wrong time to add to the costs of local authority ratings. By kicking the proposal into the long grass until after the next election Mr Swinney is taking the decent and sensible route of letting the electorate reconsider the matter."

Scrapping the council tax in favour of a local income tax (LIT) was a key pledge in the manifesto on which the SNP won the 2007 Holyrood election.

Mr Swinney told MSPs yesterday afternoon it had become clear the SNP could not put together a majority to get the necessary legislation through parliament. But he insisted the SNP would fight the next Holyrood elections in 2011 campaigning once more for a local income tax.

City council leader Jenny Dawe said she and her fellow Liberal Democrats believed a "true" local income tax was fairer than the council tax. "However, the SNP version was not truly local, in that it was to be set centrally initially. Given the difficulty the SNP would have had in getting this through, it is probably sensible not to take up parliamentary time," she said.

Scottish Labour leader Iain Gray said: "The SNP Government wasted two years promoting an unworkable tax that would have simultaneously damaged services and made Scotland the highest taxed part of the UK."

Scottish Tory lead Annabel Goldie said: "If the SNP had really believed in this policy it would have fought for it tooth and nail."

But Lothians SNP MSP Shirley-Anne Somerville claimed an "unholy alliance" of Labour and the Tories had conspired to keep council tax. She said: "We will take the case for fair local tax to the people in 2011."





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  • Last Updated: 12 February 2009 10:40 AM
  • Source: Edinburgh Evening News
  • Location: Edinburgh
  • Related Topics: Council tax
 
1

Mykel Mzoritz,

12/02/2009 11:18:22
The auld wifie Annabel is talking sense.
2

Mykel Mzoritz,

12/02/2009 11:19:19
So we don't forget - what has labour given us....

Let's get this straight.

Labour has been in power since 1997. It inherited an economy with the highest inward investment of the EU, the strongest and best provided pension funds in the EU, registering strong growth, low levels of national debt, falling unemployment, low inflation.

Even a budget surplus.

Households had one of the highest standards of living for over two generations, indebtedness was low, savings were high.

In 11 years, we have unemployment higher than when Labour took office, record levels of national borrowing are forecast (even after removing certain liabilities) we are already at record levels of debt. Our pension provision, private and public is one of the worst in the EU, growth is in a very sharp reverse and we will suffer the worst recession of the EU and G8.

Households have suffered declining living standards (in terms of disposable income) for the last 5 years, indebtedness is at an all time record.

Every single government budget deficit has been overshot for the last three years.

And Labour ignored that - and changed the golden rules to suit.

So do not pretend for one second you can blame anyone except yourselves and some greedy bankers who played to the rules of the game that Labour created.

Another thing, fiscal stimulus...

Sarko has rubbished Labour's VAT cut, so have German finance ministers.

In the US, they have tempered injections of capital with substantial direct tax cuts. Income tax cuts.

Not increases in NI, a tax on jobs that's certain.

Labour cut a indirect consumption tax when retailers are slashing prices by 25% or more.

All of Labour tax increases have been deferred - that is not a tax cut.

I think the Conservatives, commentators and the people at large understand perfectly the mess we are in.

A mess that will take a generation to put right.

Blaming America does not wash.

Brown changed the banking regulations - he was wa
3

Mykel Mzoritz,

12/02/2009 11:20:16
Brown changed the banking regulations - he was warned by the Opposition in the subsequent debate regarding the weak regulation of banking debt management.

He ignored it.

Then the IMF warned him repeatedly about the housing bubble and levels of government debt.

He ignored several warnings.

There was time, plenty of time to minimise the damage before it happened.

Instead, more taxes, more spending, more spending money this country didn't have.

Lastly cutting government spending.

Labour are planning to cut the growth in government spending for 2010-11 more than the Conservative's plan to cut the growth in spending.

So who is cutting more?

Labour spends £650bn a year and every £ is spent to maximise the value returned to the public?

When Alan Johnson can wave away in agreement that £9bn was wasted in NHS IT?

"So what." I hear you say.

Mark my words, Labour is facing electoral oblivion, for the mismanagement, incompetence, dishonesty but also that despite all the promises New Labour is just another tax and spend Labour administration.

Cameron can't do anything, it's utterly rhetorical. If he had all the wrong ideas - why has Labour stolen the best ones?
4

John H,

edinburgh 12/02/2009 12:12:31
What a lot of drivel
5

brandy al,

embra 12/02/2009 12:39:52
Without a doubt the wrong move.
6

Peter - very disappointed/concerned,

Edinburgh 12/02/2009 12:52:09
#2 & #3 Mykel Mzoritz,

Interesting posts, but, in terms of this u-turn, why are mainline British politicians so afraid to do something about LA funding, not just here in Scotland but across the whole UK?

As a matter of note re Labour, their Minister who has responsibilty for the control of UK Council Tax levels is apparently John Prescott.

Throughout the years of Labour's rule, how many Councils has he capped/controlled?

Answer - none.

In my view, Councils should have no rights to raise funds. Income Tax should be increased and everybody except the very poorest should pay. Local Authorities should be given an annual budget from the Exchequer and in that way they can most effectively be controlled.

Anything else is just a disaster for the population in general.



7

capy,

EMBRA 12/02/2009 13:39:15
Tory increase in council tax 40%
Labour increase in council tax 60%

you have been warned..
8

Mr. Borat Sagdiyev,

Kuzcek, Kazakhstan 12/02/2009 13:49:26
What I don't understand is why we need any form of Council Tax at all. I'm sure I read somewhere that something like 70-odd percent of Council funding comes from central government, whereas Council Tax only makes up about 27% of Council funding.

So why the need for this top-up?

We are being taxed twice for Council funding. And let's face it, it's hardly wanted, nor is it value for money.

This arguement has the wrong focus entirely. Instead of arguing about what is the best way to pay, the question should be why are we paying at all.
9

,

12/02/2009 14:00:54
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
10

watcher,

Edinburgh 12/02/2009 14:04:53
What a joke the Nats are. Who are they going to blame for their failed policies if Scotland ever did get independance, surely not Westminster. A 10 year old schoolboy could have told them that pulling figures out of thin air doesn`t work.
They can`t go into the next election with the same old lie, I don`t think the people who voted for them will fall for that again.
The SNP are like the East Lothian Council run by a half dozen Fib Dems, with No Brains Currie at the helm, because the SNP have no back bone Ha Ha Ha.
11

Mr. Borat Sagdiyev,

Kuzcek, Kazakhstan 12/02/2009 14:40:09
#12 - Indeed. We can relate to this with Edinburgh Council, also run by Snip/Fib coalitionm, with a dim-witted Fib at the helm. Result? Utter disaster, total shambles, even more so than the dark Labour years.

Aberdeen are also in some state, also by bizarre coincidence in the incompetent & blundering hands of a Snip/Fib coalition.

Who to vote for now... all the options are gone...

I repeat my point again though - why do we need to pay Council Tax at all?
12

Auld Twa,

Edinburgh 12/02/2009 14:42:21
Sorry to see it fall so early as we would have liked to hear Iain Gray explain how it is better for two pensioners to be paying more in council tax than income tax.
We felt that unlike most of the business spokesmen in and around Edinburgh we would have been net benefactors from the introduction of a local income tax.
Don't give us any more rubbish about it being unworkable in Scotland, at least as long as "income tax" remains the primary personal tax in the UK.
13

Peter - very disappointed/concerned,

Edinburgh 12/02/2009 15:16:48
#13 Mr. Borat

"why do we need to pay Council Tax at all?"

That is a very good question as many of the Council's service providers are 'arm's length' organisations.

Services? What services, many Council supplied services have to be paid for over and above CT, e.g. Planning Permissions, Leisure Activities, Buses (not to mention trams), uplifts of old furniture, etc. If we are having to pay for more and more such 'services' why not scrap CT and we all simply pay for what we use?

#14 Auld Twa,

It is not just OAPs who are paying more CT than Income Tax, many working people are too.

Of course, why do Labour let the status quo remain? Because property cannot run or move, people can.

The only answer is to scrap CT and remove LAs fund raising powers, increase Income Tax and give LAs an annual budget from the Exchequer/Treasury. Tax evaders get really slammed with prison sentences and fines which are many multiples of their tax avoidance.

14

antifa,

12/02/2009 15:55:38
15 - I take it you're not interested in local democracy then?

By the way, the "services" councils run include:
public transport, social housing, social care for the elderly, planning, leisure, libraries, police, education, roads maintenance, environment, and so on.

"why not scrap CT and we all simply pay for what we use?"

(a) Because this would be massively inefficient and probably impossible to organise due to collective action problems; and
(b) Because it would impose an unacceptable cost on the poorest.
15

4isbetterthan1,

Fife 12/02/2009 16:43:42
Why do pensioners keep blabbing on about Council Tax? If they don't have enough money to pay it then there is Council Tax benefit there to claim. Also, pensioners in receipt of pension tax credit pay only the water and sewerage charge and nothing else. Our pensioners get a pretty good deal in Scotland unlike in England and other European countries. They seem to think they should be entitled to pay nothing yet that doesn't make sense. Why should they pay nothing? Maybe the government could look at raising the savings element allowed before you are not entitled to benefit. However, I reiterate - if you are poor you pay the absolute minimum in Council Tax once you have made a benefit claim. I think where the government should spend more money is encouraging pensioners to take up more of the benefits that they are possibly entitled to as some seem too proud to claim. However, given the amount of young spongers in society at present I don't think they will be slow in claiming any benefit entitlement when they become pensioners!
16

Peter - very disappointed/concerned,

Edinburgh 12/02/2009 16:51:18
#16 antifa,

"I take it you're not interested in local democracy then?"

Antifa, I don't consider CT to be a very democratic tax, in fact it is massively unfair.

I was originally very opposed to the Poll Tax, but with the wisdom of hindsight I now think (if you are going to allow LAs any fund raising powers) that was the fairest method attempted yet. Had it been better thought out and had more discounts applied to low income groups the Tories would have pulled it off.

I am quite well aware of the 'services' councils run and I am making the point that many of these are charged for over and above CT, you've mentioned transport, leisure, planning, in my view these should be free to citizens (they have paid (excessive) CT afterall). Now, more and more services are having or are about to have additional levies applied, this over and above CT.

As for the 'local democracy' bit, how democratic was the decision to go ahead with the trams scheme? As we all know there was no attempt at democracy there.

The SNP at least were prepared to offer another method of LA funding and I for one believe it should have been tried.

I now say "God help the people of Scotland and save us from a financially rapacious COSLA" (the Labour Party in Westminster won't do it), just watch CT shoot up now, it can't remain frozen forever and we still have the trams to pay for.



17

JFW,

Edinburgh 12/02/2009 17:26:45
I'm in favour of local income tax, what you pay to the council for local services should be based on what your income is as opposed to the value of your house. Big house may generally mean big income but not always and it doesn't take into account changes to curcumstances. Basing it on actual income will be much fairer for everyone.
18

Auld Twa,

Edinburgh 12/02/2009 18:12:49
#17, 4isbetterthan1,Fife 12/02/2009 16:43:42
We are not complaining about having to pay tax, just the unfair way in which it is done.
Take my advice and make no financial provision for your retirement whatsoever as it is just set against the benefits you could have had anyway.
We tried to save for a small private pension - that is a complete waste of money. You would be far better spending it on holidays, at least then you would get some enjoyment out of it.
19

Peter - very disappointed/concerned,

Edinburgh 12/02/2009 18:40:57
#20 Auld Twa

Yes, I feel you are absolutely right re the benefits situation.

I should have retired in May of last year (on my 65th birthday), but chose to work on, mainly because I enjoy my job (it keeps me out of the pub) but also because I have the cash-rapacious COSLA to support. My situation is different in that I will be quite well pensioned when I do retire, but as a result of all my efforts I won't be entitled to any benefits other than my bus pass and free prescriptions (both of which I am very grateful for).

As someone pointed out here, home ownership does not always reflect wealth and the property based tax (CT) is a real killer given that many owners may have bought their homes 40 - 60 years ago when house prices were hugely lower than now.

If we continue to allow LAs to have fund raising powers, then, as said they should be forced to base their funding on income. LAs should be funded by the Treasury and be subject to monitoring by the National Audit Office. The current situation allows them carte blanche to do just about what they please and this Labour Government won't raise a finger to stop them, but by golly they'll clobber any of us who don't (or perhaps can't) pay.



20

trevor swistchew,

edinburgh 12/02/2009 20:18:08
Labour and Tory have cheated the people out of lower taxes
if Labour want to keep the Council Tax how is it going to be fairer?
John Swinney is a man who knows full autonomy is the way to get lower tax
Vote for Scotkand
Labour and Tory are history
21

trevor swistchew,

edinburgh 12/02/2009 20:21:42
Ian Gray your party did hee haw for the working man in power so your word is of little worth.
22

trevor swistchew,

edinburgh 12/02/2009 20:22:37
Ms Goldie yourparty are the one who gave the UK Poll Tax.
23

trevor swistchew,

edinburgh 12/02/2009 20:23:51
John Swinney is a fairer man than The guy in Labour.
24

NorT,

Edinburgh 12/02/2009 22:17:49
It is about time that the public, not big business, was listened to. We want the local income tax.

 

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