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Cameron's plans to cut number of MPs could backfire for Scottish Tories

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Published Date: 27 May 2009
A PROPOSAL by David Cameron to cut the number of MPs at Westminster could make it even more difficult for the Conservatives to win seats in Scotland, experts have claimed.

The Tories are aiming to increase the number of constituencies they hold north of the Border from one to five at the next general election.

But while Mr Cameron's proposal to cut the number of constituencies by 10 per cent would be likely to w
ork to the Conservatives' advantage in England, it could rebound on them in Scotland.

This is because their vote is thinly spread across the country – the Tories won nearly a sixth of the vote at the 2005 general election but won only one Scottish seat, in the Borders – and would be further diluted by an increase in the number of voters in each constituency.

Professor David Denver, a Scottish politics expert at Lancaster University, said: "(Mr Cameron's proposal] would make it much more difficult for the Conservatives to win seats, but the good thing for the Tories is that it would mean overall there would be fewer Labour MPs because Scotland would have fewer MPs."

Mr Cameron yesterday proposed cutting the number of MPs – currently 646, but due to rise to 650 at the next general election – by 10 per cent to make politics cheaper in the wake of the expenses scandal.

He also called for fixed-term parliaments – removing the prime minister's ability to call an election when it is judged most politically favourable – and vowed to give more power to backbench MPs to hold the government to account.

At the 2005 election, the Conservatives polled 65,704 more votes than Labour in England, but ended up 92 seats behind. In Scotland they received 369,388 votes (15.8 per cent), but won only Dumfriesshire, Clydesdale and Tweeddale – the seat of shadow Scottish secretary David Mundell.

Prof Denver said: "You can see why David Cameron proposed this: MPs are unpopular, they're expensive and there are too many of them. But it would also help the Tories to redress the current unfairness in the system."

Ken Ritchie, chief executive of the Electoral Reform Society, warned some Scottish rural seats could be carved up in an attempt to increase the number of electors.

Orkney and Shetland is protected by law as a standalone constituency, but there are only 21,905 voters in the Western Isles, and 47,395 in Caithness, Sutherland and Easter Ross.

Mr Ritchie said the plans were not properly thought through and could result in a "complete nonsense".

He said: "The bigger problem is the voting system. I would be quite surprised if David Cameron, once in power, wanted to make a great deal of progress on constituency boundaries."

Mr Mundell said Scotland may lose fewer MPs under Mr Cameron's plans because of the reduction in 2005 from 72 to 59 constituencies.

He said: "This isn't a ruse to somehow improve the Conservatives' position. It's a response to the fact that it's clear parliament can function effectively with less MPs. Scotland only four years ago had 13 more MPs than it does at the moment. I don't think anybody has noticed the difference."

Ross Lydall: Leader's proposed political revolution amounts to anything but

DAVID Cameron's proposed shake-up of Britain's political system begs two immediate questions: does it go far enough; and how long will it take?

The ideas are proposed as a deep-cleansing of the body politic in the wake of the expenses scandal – more full detox and facelift than sticking plaster.

But they fall at the first hurdle for many critics by avoiding the question of electoral reform. The first-past-the-post system currently punishes the Tories by failing to award the party the number of seats its share of the national vote deserves.

Why has Mr Cameron avoided asking – let alone answering – this question? Because, at the next general election, he hopes to gain disproportionately. Labour and the Tories both believe that, when it comes to Westminster at least, proportional representation is bad because it can lead to coalition governments, and hence are willing to tolerate the unfairness of the system.

The other subject Mr Cameron avoids is the House of Lords. It was first to be implicated in the sleaze scandal at Westminster, and last week two peers were suspended until the end of the parliamentary term for being prepared to accept cash in return for tabling amendments to change the law.

But it remains out of touch with modern society – peers are there either by birthright or patronage. The reality may be that Tony Blair tried for a decade to reform the Lords and only got so far, and Mr Cameron may not judge it a priority.

As for his proposal for fixed-term parliaments – we are led to assume he means four-year terms – this risks creating lame duck prime ministers and governments that drift towards elections. It already happens towards the fifth year of a current parliamentary term, and fixed terms would only make this a certainty with an unpopular administration.

Mr Cameron also proposes gimmicks – text messages to update constituents on the progress of bills and removing a ban on television coverage of parliament currently being placed on YouTube. This would allow a wider audience to see him marching ever closer to 10 Downing Street – something these proposals advance only to a limited degree.







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1

Bevin Boyce,

27/05/2009 00:00:34
Scottish Tories wouldn't *iss on the Cameron laddie if he was on fire!
2

Scotindy,

Los Angeles 27/05/2009 00:12:38
The only way the Tories are going to have a voice in Scotland is when Scotland becomes an Independent Nation. Until then they are hamstrung to their london masters like the liebor party they are a wasted vote and a waste of time. Roll on Referendum day so that we the SCOTTISH People can get out of this BANKRUPT THIEVING UNION WITH england......................
3

Vivas,

Edinburgh 27/05/2009 00:12:40
Not often that I agree 100% with a Tory ! From Mr. Mundell: "Scotland only four years ago had 13 more MPs than it does at the moment. I don't think anybody has noticed the difference."

How true that is Mr Mundell. So lets speed up that trend with a target figure of say ... 0 ?

4

hoblar,

27/05/2009 00:27:11
"This isn't a ruse to somehow improve the Conservatives' position. It's a response to the fact that it's clear parliament can function effectively with less MPs. Scotland only four years ago had 13 more MPs than it does at the moment. I don't think anybody has noticed the difference."

Thanks to the tory (the ONE tory as it happens) and somehow 'shadow' Scottish secretary.

The alleged union dividend proven as not existing for Scotland in one sentence.

We don't notice the difference because most of them are pure new labour canon fodder to back up labour's Westminster ambitions and do naffall for the inhabitants of Scotland.

I see I have been beaten to this comment above, it is a cracker. ;-)

5

Brianwci,

27/05/2009 00:37:44
Go for it David. We are right behind you.

Rule Brita...what?

Oh beg your pardon, getting carried away there for a second.
6

Iainbroch,

27/05/2009 00:59:03
Go for it David! Englands freedom is at hand! Be the man Dave! You are on the verge of writing yourself into the history books, destiny awaits you! I will even buy you an axe if you need one! I am sure any number of contributers here will sharpen it up for you if need be!
7

Castaway™ ,

27/05/2009 01:03:53
MPs from Scotland have nonetheless had the most difficulty in adjusting to post-devolution life, with much of their work diminished.
Perhaps the greatest impact of devolution so far on MPs and their work has been at the local level, where many constituency responsibilities now rest with MSPs. UCL Oct 2004

Scotland Office - The Office of Secretary of State for Scotland came under further fire in February 2002 when an article in the Daily Telegraph suggested that Helen Liddell had such a light workload that she was able to work a three day week with time to spare to take French lessons at Dover House (5 February 2002).

English MPs complain that their Scottish counterparts have little to do. Shadow environment minister James Gray moans: “How come I am paid as an English MP the same wages to do about four times more work than a Scottish MP ? Times February 1, 2004
8

,

27/05/2009 01:12:04
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9

hoblar,

27/05/2009 01:19:34
I am sure that if you post a load of mince about your confusion about nationality and your even bigger delusion about Scotland "counting for nothing" you will do just great in every manner.

You'll feel much better. lol
10

,

27/05/2009 01:23:46
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11

Wisnaeme,

27/05/2009 01:41:55
Cameron says cut MP's.

Now who in the wee man's name is gonna believe yon $hite?

Now if wee Eck said he wus in favour of cutting the number of MPs at Westmidden, in particular all the Scottish wans

Ah shurely wid believe yon.

But ah'm thinking it will be the Tories that will be sending us hame tae think again. If folk allow them to.

.
12

,

27/05/2009 03:00:06
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13

The Creature from the Black Lagoon,

27/05/2009 06:01:48
Traquir, dry your eyes.

If you are worried about Scotland being under represented at Westminster, why not ask Salmond why he has only been there 6 times in 2 years.
14

,

27/05/2009 06:28:27
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15

KampungHighlander,

Jakarta 27/05/2009 06:31:04
When we leave and there are no longer any Scottish MPs in Westminster you will have more than your 10% cut.

I wish our English brothers well in their attempts to reform their Parliament. They may want to note that on average MPs currently represent 92,000 constituents.

In the US the average Congressman represents over 700,000. Safe to say that a 50% cull would not be out of the question.
16

,

27/05/2009 06:46:55
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17

,

27/05/2009 06:51:49
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18

,

27/05/2009 07:01:53
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19

Colkitto,

River Clyde 27/05/2009 07:03:08
Cameron doesn't couldn't care less about Scotland. Anyone who thinks otherwise is deluded.
Brown is exactly the same, middle England wins elections, not Scotland.
20

John S,

27/05/2009 07:23:19
#14 - Question:- What do Scottish constituency MPs actually do at Westminster ?
21

bully wee alba,

Edinburgh 27/05/2009 07:24:07
Repatriate all powers back to Edinburgh and there is an immediate reduction of 59 MPs.
22

Number 6,

Germany 27/05/2009 07:41:59
Why would the tories care about their miniscule support in Scotland?

It's England they are interested in, just like the last time.

Any unpalatable policies will be unleashed on Scotland by a Tory controlled goverment,with no risk to their english support.Remember the poll tax ?

They will also cut our funding to the bare bone. Another policy that will be seen as hugely popular SOUTH of the border.

It's your choice fellow Scots.
23

John S,

27/05/2009 07:55:06
View From North Britain - June 7, 2008
Also under the Treaty of the Union, Scotland is guaranteed at least 45 MPs; any number below that would break the treaty and end the union. The 45 Scottish MPs granted were in comparison to the 486 English MPs, 27 Welsh Mps and 100 Irish MPs in 1707.

Since 1922 when the Republic of Ireland left leaving Northern Ireland, the no. of MPs for England has risen from 492 to 529 (533 next election); for Wales 36 to 40; for Northern Ireland 13 to 18; only Scotland has decreased 74 to 59.

Only 59 MPs out of a total of 646 MPs (next election 650) at Westminster is already straining the Union now. Scotland’s influence in the Union has been greatly diminished and any further reduction would negate Scotland’s role being part of it.:::http://tinyurl.com/pj6uyj
24

Bejjy,

Europe 27/05/2009 07:57:12
The British electorate in general are over represented in their Parliament compared to many of their European neighbours and the Scottish electorate even more so. Why does a country with a population of only 5 million need so many politicians and at so many different levels, MP's, MSP's, MEP's and all the other local and district councils that exist. I think a cull of politicians in the UK is needed rather than just a reduction in numbers.
25

Cadgers,

Perth 27/05/2009 08:03:19
"A PROPOSAL by David Cameron to cut the number of MPs at Westminster could make it even more difficult for the Conservatives to win seats in Scotland".......

As if cameron cares a throw about Scotland! Though if he cut the numbers he probably hopes to have less of those pesky SNP mp's to deal with :-)
26

TWC,

exLabour 27/05/2009 08:33:52
Cameron is no fool he will be working out how much Fiscal Autonomy he can offer that will keep Scotland in the Union. It is a question the Labour party couldn't answer because of Ditherer in chief.
SLAB are boxed in by Brown and his puppet Gray
27

mr broon,

Edinburgh 27/05/2009 08:38:19
Yesterday, in Cameron's "Time for Change" speech, in which he attempted to emulate Barak Obama's election campaign slogan, he talked about devolving power to the people and reducing the number of MPs?

Ten years ago, as part of the devolution settlement, the number of Scotland's MPs was reduced by 12, from 71 to 59. The Scottish Parliament also sits for a fixed 4 year term, as do the Northern Ireland and Welsh Assemblies.

After expenses scandals at the Scottish Parliament, including the former leaders of the Scots Labour and Tory parties, along with many other MSPs, Holyrood cleaned up its act.

Originally, the centralised Tory Party wanted nothing whatsoever to do with the principal of devolved government, or relinquishing power from the Centre? However, now the MPs expenses scandal has finally revealed that Westminster is a corrupt, and hopelessly outdated legislature, Cameron is only attempting to take advantage of the present crisis.

28

jdships,

Edinburgh 27/05/2009 08:49:39
Thing everyone forgets is that if/when "independance" comes , all the SNP " Champagne Socialists" will stand as Labour ( New or Old) candidates and we will be back to where we started !

Ach well " whit goes roond ,comes roond" !!
29

TWC,

exLabour 27/05/2009 08:53:59
32 jdships
I don't believe for a minute that I will vote for some of the current Labour candidates if Scotland gets independence. I admit it took me a while but I will be much more open to other Parties in an independent, even Fiscally Autonomous Scotland.
30

thinking,

Scotland 27/05/2009 08:57:21
We may have fewer MPs but adding MPs and MSPs together we have more than twice the number than before.
This means that each MSP and MP has less to do and that they cost the tax payer more.
I'm all for reducing numbers back to the pre-devolution era, or less.
31

Elephant,

Linlithgow 27/05/2009 09:20:59
Cameron's plans are sensible full stop. Is there anyone who really wants a bloated bureaucracy? He made no mention of Scotland specifically so why speculate what may happen to MP numbers here. I can speculate on Tory spending plans post-election though. The cuts won't be to the Scottish lump-sum, it will be to tax credits which have allowed many outside the M25 to invest in extra Setanta, cider and ciggies over the last 10 years.
32

,

27/05/2009 09:24:11
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33

,

27/05/2009 09:29:22
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34

Auld Reeky,

27/05/2009 09:40:40
Don't expect any favours from "The Eton Boys" (Cameron & Osborne) like Maggie they don't give a damm about Scotland and its people - so numbers of MPs up here will not make any difference to them - the only answer is CLEAR OUT THE CRXP we have at present and elect MPs with genuine interests for Scots and Scotland (and not necessarily SNP only)
35

morris,

edinburgh 27/05/2009 10:11:22
Whilst fewer MPS would save money,it would mean larger constituencies which will of course be redrawn to gerrymandered lines presumably, and where possible in favour of the Unionist parties although its difficult to see the Tories defying the Scottish opinion polls and only tactical voting would offer much hope I would think.
It does nothing to address the real problem which is that all Unionists are in it for themselves,they must be because the economics of an independent Scotland have been the subject of the greatest betrayal of the Scottish people for four decades minimum ,and even Unionists have admitted this .
Brian Wilson claimed that Labour had explained to the Scots that they had an economy which was sound and were a rich nation,but we rejected it!
Aye that will be right Brian!
As I have often mentioned John Biffen hinted that if he had been a Scot he could well have joined the SNP.HE said unequivocally that he would NOT have been a member of the Tory party!He also explained why!
People like Ian Gray may think that the name of the game is con the people and get rich quick.
I think the game is called take independence and then deal with the quislings who knowingly betrayed our country.
43 Whilst I agree with your suggestion that we elect only MPs who have Scotlands best interests at heart,I am curious as to who you consider qualifies.
Clearly the SNP do, and argubaly the Greens.The rest could not organise themselves long enough to win even a single seat.None of the Unionist parties could possibly qualify since they are based upon a lie.
Scotland is better off as an independent nation.
36

morris,

edinburgh 27/05/2009 10:22:16
32 All SNP will stand as champagne socialists !

Nonsense!

There is no broader church in existence than the SNP whose ,membership was drawn from Tory Labour and amongst the founder members were a former Liberal MP and a Communist. Some have even held Green party memberships.
You might like what you said to be true,but its nonsense!

Apart from anything else the party is monarchist , whilst many of its members are republican.They see that as a seperate issue and first we must have a Scotland before we can debate what colour it should be.

The party could not be much broader than it is !
37

thinking,

Scotland 27/05/2009 10:28:42
44 morris
'all Unionists are in it for themselves'
I would disagree with you here.
I lived for many years in the South of England and have friends and relatives in the north and south of England as well as Scotland.
Before devolution none of my English friends and family would have referred to themselves as English,unless they were asked where they were born. When asked their nationality, they would have said British and would have expected all parts of Britain to be treated equally.
I have never heard any of them saying anything anti-Scottish, either, but I've read many 'rants' here that are anti-English.
(British people from all areas often think their area is treated the worst, and have stories to back their claim up).
There may be politicians who are anti-Scotland, but more likely not, just more interested in feathering their own nests. Having said that, there are good politicians in all parties.
38

Lausanne Jellies,

27/05/2009 10:54:55
'all Unionists are in it for themselves'
'all Unionists are in it for themselves'
'all Unionists are in it for themselves'
'all Unionists are in it for themselves'
'all Unionists are in it for themselves'
'all Unionists are in it for themselves'
'all Unionists are in it for themselves'
'all Unionists are in it for themselves'
We Nationalists are in it for ourselves too ;)



Saor Alba
39

Beachcomber,

Edinburgh 27/05/2009 11:15:35
From today's independent.

Campaign for democracy: Brown vs Cameron vs Clegg

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/campaign-for-democracy-brown-vs-cameron-vs-clegg-1691210.html
40

BIG EYE,

Paisley 27/05/2009 11:27:14
Just over a week to go to the euro elections. Will the Labour vote require counters with two hands or will one hand be sufficient?
41

Gregor Addison,

Glasgow 27/05/2009 11:48:27
I'll be very surprised if, come an election (possibly in October?), the Tories get more than one or two seats in Scotland. Their vote is thinly spread and still quite low. So if Cameron gets in; or when, since he seems almost certain to get in on English votes; his changing the number of constituencies in Scotland will probably have little impact on the Tories.

It does beg the question, however, of how far Scotland's representation at Westminster is to be trimmed back. The obvious solution to me is to return as many SNP MPs as we can and push for Devolution Max or full independence. A vote for Labour in Scotland may be no more than a vote to stop Gordon Brown coming third behind Nick Clegg.
42

Edward,

27/05/2009 11:50:40
With more powers for Holyrood and planned reduction in MP's, why not just go that extra mile and have Independence for Scotland
It would save even more by not having any Westminster MP's or any Lord's
Can now understand when the likes of the Baron Foulkes and the Scottish Labour MP's are against Independence as they are so entrenched in the expenses gravy train!

For those that think that an Independent Scotland would revert to having the Labour politicians that are in Westminster, think again. After Independence, politics will go through a big evolution change.
This is due to the fact that the unionist parties will be cut loose from London and will be for the first time able to focus in on what is good for Scotland. This focus, may even split current 'spheres', so we would no longer have a 'Labour', 'LibDem' or 'Tory'parties
43

For Scotlands Future,

Vote for the SNP 27/05/2009 12:15:33
Independence solves the "West Lothian" question, The Barnett Formula, the feeling in England that Scotland gets more than it's fair share, the feeling in Scotland that it is getting screwed, etc, etc, etc.

It's a win, win situation for everyone.

Seem the "latest news"?? Labour saying that the SNP is irrelevant in Europe, and that the SNP are in "fantasy land".

Labour is a party that is irrelevant EVERYWHERE.

When you vote on Thursday 4th June. Just ask yourself who has represented and served Scotland best - and who has bent over for their English masters, who agreed to the stupidity that Scottish representatives have to leave the room when Scottish matters are discussed.
44

nova albion,

27/05/2009 12:43:21
Are we bothered! Scotland is a lost cause,better you go it alone,if you can.
45

Tris,

27/05/2009 12:47:44
"...... the Tories won nearly a sixth of the vote at the 2005 general election but won only one Scottish seat....."


The iniquities of FPTP.

46

Gregor Addison,

Glasgow 27/05/2009 12:48:32
I see the Scotsman did in fact apologise to the First Minister for their headline "Salmond Stumped by a Mother's Math Question".

http://www.allmediascotland.com/articles/4095/27052009/pcc_satisfied_by_scotsman_apology_to_salmond
47

Gregor Addison,

Glasgow 27/05/2009 12:50:43
Apparently, according to the Guardian, it's a Scottish media inadequacy.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/mediamonkeyblog/2009/may/26/alex-salmond-bbc-scotsman

Their headline reads: "Scottish Media Divided from Reality". Hardly news!
48

Gregor Addison,

Glasgow 27/05/2009 12:56:28
Things look bad for Labour, with former Labour leader of Edinburgh City Council, Donald Anderson, saying that they could lose 11 of their East coast seats in a General Election. And Bob Thomson, a former chairman and treasurer of the party, had a go at Iain Gray at the weekend over his leadership (or lack of it) and surrounding himself with incompetent people. In a climate where deselections look more and more likely, I get the impression that in-fighting is breaking out in the Labour party. How much more virulent will it be after the outcome of next Thursday's elections?
49

The Master,

27/05/2009 13:04:07
This is a space filling article full of pure ungrounded speculation. Who can say what future voting trends will be for the Tories or any other party?

There's currently a revival for both the Tories and the Nats in Scotland and who'd have thought that not all too many years ago, when the Nats were down to 2 MPs or later when the Tories were whitewashed?
50

nova albion,

27/05/2009 13:18:23
News has it Cameron is going to let Scotland go if that is what the majority want.
51

nova albion,

27/05/2009 13:22:55
so, if you want to keep the UK together vote Labour, if not vote for anyone you like
52

TWC,

exLabour 27/05/2009 13:29:13
37 Rab The Ranter™,, I've been out

Tell you what Rab I don't mind if there is a benefits cut in th enew order, I'm fed up with means testing and its affect on people providing for themselves.

Some people are on invalidity and out in spain dancing at night and remember I am a socialist.
53

Number 6,

Germany 27/05/2009 13:47:20
59# Nova Albion : Cameron has no intention of letting Scotland go. Not that he has any say whatsoever in the matter.

He is on record as saying Scotland could survive independently, but that HE "does not think it's a good idea". He has also said Scotland Must accept trident , regardless what the population, or the Parliment wishes.

Oh yes , he's got a great chance in Scotland.

It's this total lack of reality, this "It will be all right on the night" attitude that will lead to a near unionista wipeout North of the Border.

Any Scots here preparing to vote Tory or Labour at the General Election ?. Anyone... one from each party will do.
54

wullieboy,

glasgow 27/05/2009 14:03:12
Novo Albion 59 &60.
Cameron doesn't have a say in it if the majority vote for independence. It is ours to take, not any party leader's to give.
55

Lausanne Jellies,

27/05/2009 14:30:50
55.
No disrespects to Alex Salmond, but I would always go with zero. Had the First Minister a large sum of money he could use on any other project as long as there was no need to divide it any further he could be left with not being able to do so because of the infinite possibility of dividing the money by the zero.
56

A Clamper,

Edinburgh 27/05/2009 14:31:34
There's more chance of Thatcher moving to a council house than there is of the Tories increasing their representation in Scotland. Roll on Independence.
57

Lausanne Jellies,

27/05/2009 14:43:59
65.
Now you've done it, Thatcher moves in next door to me and I'm blaming you. Revenge votes all down the line. HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA
58

Iainbroch,

27/05/2009 15:01:53
re66

What no songs today? I quite look forward to your musical interludes they do make me smile unlike the rest of your posts!
59

nova albion,

27/05/2009 16:38:09
63. Cameron is going to give you "no say"by giving England a vote on independence. We all know the majority will say "yes" end of story!
60

TWC,

exLabour 27/05/2009 17:21:06
68 nova albion

Cameron ould be made ineffectual in Scotland if Labour gave Holyrood Full Fiscal Autonomy.

Labour and the SNP could manage Scotland as a business in its own right.
If they don't then their decline will continue even after the next General Election leading to wipe out at the Scottish Election.
61

GOODBYE LONDON LABOUR,

Aberdeen 27/05/2009 20:45:44
Cameron's weasel words fool few people in Scotland. Just like their Quisling London Labour bed-partners, the anti-Scottish Tories don't give two hoots about Scotland, other than to steal its oil revenues.
Wake up, Scotland! How long are you prepared to subsidise England? Isn't thirty-five years long enough?

VOTE FOR INDEPENDENCE!
62

,

27/05/2009 21:20:36
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63

,

27/05/2009 22:50:30
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64

Iainbroch,

27/05/2009 23:50:40
re72

First comes the dissembling Unionist then comes the Unionist disingenuity and then comes the lie - they cant help it - it is the way they are programmed. But then if that fails try a little blackmail or a few cheap bribes in a few select hands. It has become second nature to them.
65

Scotindy,

Los Angeles 06/11/2009 05:25:50
How can you have a Profesor in SCOTTISH POLOTICS in LANCASTER UNIVERSITY, IS THAT NOT england.????????????
66

Scotindy,

Los Angeles 06/11/2009 05:33:28
So what is new, the english dictat to other parts of the Islands. England should be concerned...

 

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