Help Sitemap Home Skip Navigation Contact Us Disability Statement


Breaking the glass ceiling is tougher for career women

Click on thumbnail to view image
Click on thumbnail to view image
Click on thumbnail to view image
Click on thumbnail to view image
Click on thumbnail to view image

Published Date: 08 November 2006
Cherie Blair to address Global Alliance for Women World Summit today Survey shows number of female board directors in top 100 firms has fallen Suggest many women shunning culture of long hours for happier life
Key quote
"Women have made great strides in the workplace over the last 30 years, but the fact that still so few have reached the boardroom proves that the glass ceiling, though it might be cracked, has not yet broken." - JENNY WATSON, EQUAL OPPORTUNITIES COMMISSION

Story in full SHE has achieved the holy grail of modern life, successfully combining her high-flying career with a happy and a stable family life. And today Cherie Blair will tell a conference of successful businesswomen in Glasgow how she has achieved it and the importance of bridging the gender gap.

But her speech comes as new evidence suggests it is getting harder to follow in her footsteps. A survey published yesterday revealed the number of female board directors in the top 100 firms has fallen from 121 in 2005 to 117 in 2006, with only three women chief executives - as has the percentage of boardroom positions held by women.

One leading employment lawyer in Edinburgh said it would be decades before the goal of equality is finally achieved and that it would take legislation - as well as inspiration - for most women to break through the glass ceiling.

The Prime Minister's wife will address an audience of top-flight entrepreneurs and executives at the Global Alliance for Women World Summit, offering an insight into how she juggles her role as a mother, wife and QC.

Almost 200 women from as far afield as the US, Australia, New Zealand and Central America will hear Ms Booth discuss issues facing working women. She will talk about the Global Gender Gap report from the World Economic Forum, which showed the UK falling behind Nordic countries, and why women are a powerful economic force.

But new research suggests British women are shunning top-flight careers because of a working culture of long hours, which is making it almost impossible to have a happy family life.

According to research carried out by headhunters Moira Benigson Executive Search, some women are choosing, albeit reluctantly, to leave senior posts. The survey asked women about their experiences and why there is such a small number of women in top posts.

Among the reasons suggested were the "inner inhibitor" - many women choose family over "stratospheric success" - out-dated attitudes towards women with children and inflexible working arrangements.

Ms Benigson, a mother of three, said more firms will need to introduce flexible hours.

She said: "It's a cultural thing. At the moment we have to be available ... seven days a week, 24 hours a day but that's very difficult when you have a family."

She pointed out that three of Britain's largest consumer firms - Associated British Food, RHM and Scottish & Newcastle - do not have a single female board member. Unilever has just one woman on its board, a non-executive director.

The annual Female FTSE report, published yesterday, revealed that after many years of increasing female participation in the boardrooms of Britain's top companies, the number of women directorships had dropped this year from 121 to 117. The position is even worse in the next 250 largest listed companies, where there are only 139 female directors and 135 senior female senior executives.

Carol Fox, an employment lawyer in Edinburgh, said: "This holy grail of a work-life balance is not going to be achieved overnight. Let's be honest, the pace of change is extremely slow and it could take decades before we get what we want. We need bold decisions by government and employers if we are serious about equal pay and breaking through the glass ceiling."

Ms Fox said the Prime Minister's wife had a real opportunity to make a difference at the conference and called on her to seize the initiative. "Women like Cherie Booth should be calling for legislation which actually makes a difference to ordinary working women. Most women don't have the financial resources or the army of support staff which allow these high-profile women to function."

The Equal Pay Act, which hit the statute books in 1970, was supposed to remove discrimination, but despite the promise of change, studies have shown that, on average, British women still earn about three-quarters the pay of men.

A nationwide skills shortage could see more opportunities open up for women in traditionally male industries.

Yesterday, one of the most prominent leaders in Britain's oil and gas industry called for an end to the male-dominated world of the North Sea's offshore rigs and production platforms.

Malcolm Webb, the chief executive of the UK Offshore Operators' Association, told a conference in Aberdeen that the industry was missing out on half the available workforce because too few women were being recruited to work offshore.

He was backed by Malcolm Wicks, the energy minister, who told delegates: "Chuck away the sexist stuff - we have really got to get to grips with this issue if it is really to make an impact."

Jenny Watson, chairwoman of the Equal Opportunities Commission, said it made sound business sense for companies to allow women flexible hours. She said: "Women have made great strides in the workplace over the last 30 years, but the fact that still so few have reached the boardroom proves that the glass ceiling, though it might be cracked, has not yet broken."

Few

perks for Britain's most famous working mum
AL

THOUGH a well-oiled civil service machine surrounds her husband 24 hours a day, Cherie Blair receives far less help and support from the taxpayer than many assume.

Her government car and driver are possibly the greatest perk that arises from her marriage to the Prime Minister.

While she and her children have constant police protection, the officers are strictly limited to protection work: any child-minding or nannying services must be provided by staff paid from the Blairs' own funds.

At least one hired help caused Mrs Blair serious concern: Ros Mark tried to publish details of her time as a nanny to the Blairs, but was ultimately prevented by a legal injunction.

When it comes to her much-scrutinised appearance, Mrs Blair foots the bill, although the Labour Party last year contributed more than £7,000 to pay her personal hairdresser, Andre Suard.

Because her shopping trips attract unwanted attention she relies on friends and "fixers".

Despite reports that she earns £300,000 or more a year as a barrister, friends say Mrs Blair's family responsibilities prevent her working the very long hours required to earn such sums.

Fema

le law graduate thriving in the man's world of offshore drilling
KA

RYN Hossack, a law and management graduate from Aberdeen's Robert Gordon University, is one of only 423 women working in the male-dominated world of Britain's offshore oil and gas industry.

The 28 year-old from Turriff started working in the industry seven years ago in the contracts department of Maersk Oil, one of the industry's top service firms.

But a year ago, in a dramatic career change, she began training to be a drilling engineer and is already working offshore as a nightshift drilling supervisor in one of the industry's toughest environments.

Karyn explained yesterday: "When I began working on contracts for the drilling team, I just became more and more interested in what the drilling engineers were working on versus what I was working on.

"I asked the company if they would support me making the transition from contracts over into drilling which was pretty bizarre to some people.

"But they agreed to do that and have actively encouraged me to fulfil my ambition. And since last September I have been training as a drilling engineer."

She said "It's still a bit of man's world offshore, but I am never the only female on the rig. And I don't have any problems with it at all. Everybody is really nice and friendly and it's not nearly as bad as people think it is. The horror stories you used to hear about the accommodation and the facilities offshore just aren't true."

Karyn added: "My advice to any other female, thinking about working offshore, would be not to hesitate and grab the opportunity with both hands. And if they want to be in the oil business then offshore is a great place to learn."

Self

-employment allows me to be here for my child
LI

KE most working mothers, Naomi Glover is trying to achieve the impossible: a perfect life-work balance.

But after turning her back on the high-flying world of finance, she may have found what she was looking for. Since the birth of her daughter Caitie in July 2004 her life has changed, but she knows it is all for the best.

"I used to be in the office by 7am and I rarely got away before 5:30pm. I did a lot of work from home in the evenings as well. I didn't have a clue about the impact of having a baby and how it would affect my life and work pattern.

"I decided to change careers altogether and left the bank to work for myself. Although I still put in the hours, I'm self-employed so I can set my hours to suit myself."

After giving birth, Mrs Glover, 30, of Dunbar, East Lothian, was allowed to work part-time as a learning and development manager for an international bank in Edinburgh.

But when it was suggested she return full-time, she knew she would not be able to sustain the 50-plus hours a week that she had worked previously. Instead, she started her own company, Envision Coaching, offering tuition for those aiming to improve their performance in the workplace or private life. "After six months on maternity leave, I didn't really feel ready to go back to work and I was really enjoying being a mum.

"Later, I went back part-time, but there were days when I'd have to rush home, pick up my daughter and then work in the evenings."

Working from home offers Mrs Glover flexibility: "If my daughter is ill, I'm here for her and not worrying about how to get back from the office."

She is one of the lucky ones and says some friends who have had children "have found it a real struggle to go back to work. Their employers were really unsupportive about working part-time.

"Some have felt very marginalised. The inference was that because they were mothers, they weren't really taking their job seriously."

Inve

sting in businesswomen
IN

VESTORS can now support businesses which are at least 50 per cent controlled by women by putting their money into Trapezia, the UK's first venture capital fund dedicated to supporting women-focused companies.

In the United States, funds concentrating on businesses run by women form a large market. With Trapezia, people put their money in to high-potential unquoted businesses where women have a major influence; a first for the UK.

Clare Logie, of the Bank of Scotland's Women in Business unit, said: "Women have about 35 per cent of the capital of men when they launch businesses, which is why they grow more slowly. They tend to borrow as little as possible and use their own capital, partly because they have less contact with formal networks."

Page 1 of 1

 
1

scottwebb.co.uk,

08/11/2006 02:05:05

What a hard life the poor woman leads :)

2

Graeme,

08/11/2006 03:20:11

The hardest thing im sure, on top of being a wife, mother and QC, will be juggling between the house maids, cooks, nannies, cleaners, gardeners, general messengers, secretaries, hairdressers and drivers.

Darling, the ordinary woman looks up to you as a guiding light. Be strong.

3

chad,

Coober Peedy 08/11/2006 04:40:21

good to see the daughter taking after Cherie in the looks department. Girl Power.

4

Malky,

08/11/2006 04:45:35

Boo-hoo.

5

scottwebb.co.uk,

08/11/2006 05:34:55

Comment@2 Graeme, good one dude :)

6

Guga,

Rockall 08/11/2006 06:45:24

Marvellous what you can do when your old man is Prime Monster. I wonder if she would ever have become a QC and then a judge if it wasn't for who she was married to.

Comment #2. Right on mate.

7

Dave,

Western Isles 08/11/2006 08:01:33

It can't be that women can't juggle work, mother hood and being a wife is it? Is it not something we (men)) have being saying all along i.e. you can't have you cake and eat it otherwise you'll be unhappy?

Mind you, for women, the grass is always greener, isn't it.

Wait till Doreen reads the comments from us dinosaur mysonginists, she'll have a field day. Brace yourself boys............

8

conservative,

Fife 08/11/2006 08:14:12

And our children are the worst behaved in the world. Whatever happened to parenting?

9

eric,

08/11/2006 08:28:35

Is that what woman have to look up to ?God help them,

10

bill, england,

08/11/2006 08:34:38

Daughter of a scouse git, and a failed scouse git herself.

A failure as a mother, a failure as a person, a failure as a wife.

A success as a lawyer, which in my book is worse still.

Some juggler, with only the smallest ball still in the air!

It is people like her that are strengthening the supposed glass ceiling, and making it harder for women to succeed.

11

silemairin,

england 08/11/2006 09:20:22

My heart bleeds.....not
and if its costing that much for her hairdos she should change her hairdresser

Post 2 says it all.... loud applause...

12

Fiona C,

W Lothian 08/11/2006 09:37:16

The career women are all very well and everyone should have equal opportuinties- that is a given.

However those women are bettering themselves financially and in their driving career prospects, more often than not by participating in the blatant exploitation of other women.

For example, Nursery Nurses with 10 years training, who have the same sort of curricular responsibilities and paperwork demands as Infant School teachers are paid about 20pence an hour above the minimum wage by private nursery companies such as Careshare Ltd.

So where's the real equality?

13

val,

fife 08/11/2006 09:38:55

as long as mothering is not considered as 'work' ie 'life' experience by employers, women like myself will be disadvantaged.

taking time out to raise my 3 kids was best for them and my sanity, but getting back into the workplace was not easy despite years of voluntary work. got first class management degree at 40 but still couldn't get any graduate or other job that did not involve long hours and travel.

6 years on and still don't earn enough to repay student loan!

14

liro,

Edinburgh 08/11/2006 09:39:46

I say its great that Cherie is fighting for the womens right to have a career as well as having a family life, it is so difficult these days.

I am a women & I am working my way up the ranks in a very successful bank and know that at some point my want to have a family will come between my career prospects.

What really annoys me is men who say that women cant have it all, do men not have equal responsibility for caring for a family as well as providing for one? The fact is that men are threatened that women are taking over the so called breadwinner of the family and that we in essence do it better than them, women were built for multi tasking - men are not

15

Irene,

Glasgow 08/11/2006 09:43:20

Interesting there are so few women feeding back! All too busy juggling family/work? Maybe some of these men could help a bit more! Joking apart that is part of the problem here, if men took on more of the family support, and some do, then there would be more equal opportunity to strick the work life balance. Equally if the macho world of business began to realise what is important in terms of contribution then it wouldn't rate long hours so highly...note our lower productivity compared to those countries where hours are shorter...telling us something?

However, it still comes done to one question are we all trying to do too much and as a result our children (and ourselves) are suffering the consequences? Does something have to give?

16

Dave,

Western Isles 08/11/2006 09:48:00

Hmm. Sexist guff from Liro.

My wife is the main bread winner while I finish off my studies. I look after the kids in the main and the house as well as pick up a little work from SNH and fishing on the boats. To say women are better at multi tasking than men is utter crap and highly offensive. What it actually means is that women make a half assed job of many tasks and men make a great job of fewer tasks. To also say men have equal responsibility for rearing the children, yes you are correct. However, the precedent is set from the very beginning by mother nature i.e. women get pregant, give birth and breast feed. They therefore take time off work to do that and thusly men have to go out and work unless, of course, you can go back to work immediatly after birth and leave your breats at home. Very few women are taking over the role as bread winner and my wife has made it very clear that once I have finished my studies, back to full time work I go and she's going to stay at home because she misses her kids and is slightly jelous of my position. You are sexist Liro and with that attitude, you will set the sexual revolution back decades.

17

bupf,

08/11/2006 09:54:40

Women gossip too much. And they put too much emphasis on small wasteful tasks in the workplace.

That is my genuine experience.

18

Dave,

Western Isles 08/11/2006 09:56:49

Mine too Bupf and they do it all in the name of "multi tasking".

Funny, when on a mission in me army days, navigating my boys through wherever under gun fire, I never called it multi tasking, but in retrospect, that's what it was.

19

Adam Birnie,

Glasgow 08/11/2006 10:10:11

How many more times? There is NO SUCH THING as a glass ceiling.
Males differ from each other more than females. You find more males at the tails of the standard distribution curve. So for example in any given population the most intelligent and the least intelligent are both likely to be male. Successful people are found at the extreme of the curve, where you also find more males. It's not a 'ceiling' it's simple biology
The proof is in the people at the oter tail of the curve, the failure, dropouts, prisoners. They are mostly male too but no one ever talks of a glass floor that prevents women failing.

20

val,

fife 08/11/2006 10:22:05

this is not about the gendered nature of workstyles-there will always be men and women who are exceptions to stereotypes. It is about equality of opportunity for earning a decent wage, and a poorer old age ie no pension!

those high heid ones in offices are men because my generation, as young mums, did not get tax credits, money for childcare, flexible work, got dreadful maternity leave and no paternity leave. that meant we were out of the workplace for a while-when i tried to 'go back part time' i only kept £1 an hour of my pay!!

knock on effect is interrupted career ladder and no chance of catching up-especially as the employers don't acknowledge that older women didn't have the same chances. those who struggled through at work are probably too worn out with the juggling to reach the heights of their profession!

once the younger generation of women get the experience they will break the glass ceiling.

fortunately-or not-some see how awful it has been for us oldies and don't want that stress for their own family-therefore opt out before they get there.

21

Dave,

Western Isles 08/11/2006 10:25:19

The only thing that can be added is that this constant male bashing will get women nowhere.

Men are quite happy to turn thier backs on women and live their lives without compromise. Thier support will happily be withdrawn and those men at the top of Adam's neatly explained curve will happily prevent women attaining top positions, regardless of the rafts of laws and leglislation that women need to make thier way in the world. This is especially true if you want to fulfill your biological desire to haev kids, can't do that without a man and it'snieve to think that you can. Men don't have the same over riding desire to have kids.

If you want to achieve, strive and make it to the top, then you need to work with us, not against us and the constnct cliping and nagging will get you nowhere. It's just as hard for guys to get anywhere but because we have had to deal with it for centuries, we stopped complaining.

So come on women, work with us, not against us.

22

noremac,

not too far away 08/11/2006 10:25:41

Get your legs waxed its ok,the stupid tax paper will pay for it.

23

Marie Antoinette,

08/11/2006 10:38:34

Cherie Blair makes me look like a saint. I'm sure Scottish women will be queuing up to learn the secret of her many 'successes'.

24

wattie>x 1,

wattie>x 08/11/2006 10:38:59

Liked the glum photo!

The family didn't look all that happy!

Has papa Blair a monopoly on the grinning game?

25

Dave,

Western Isles 08/11/2006 10:44:23

It's Euan I feel sorry for. All he wants to do is get p*shed and hump things but his mum dragged him away to a femenist rally instead..............

26

pauline,

east coast 08/11/2006 10:50:55

I feel like i have been watching a game of ping pong man against women, pros and cons?!! i am a mother,wife ,nana,friend to my family and work full time running my business my husband works full time also, no competition in our house!!!

27

Ed,

Edinburgh 08/11/2006 10:53:55

Unfortunately real life happens 24/7. As a senior manager I am expected to respond to events when they occur, not when is most convenient considering my work/life balance. My staff, clients and customers are not going to be impressed if I say I couldn't respond because the baby-sitter wasn't available.

There are costs as well as benefits in rising to the top. Both men and women have to decide whether they are prepared to pay the price. Some will and some won't. That's what equality is really about. The option of weighing up the costs and benefits for you personally and making the choice. Women have to make these lifestyle choices just as much as men. There is no women's opt out clause in real life.

28

val,

fife 08/11/2006 10:54:50

i agree that male bashing is not the issue. however, even though many do not have the burning desire to have kids, they are still responsible for them if they father them! Not all pregnancies are planned!

it is really about parents sharing the load best way for their family-whoever does main child rearing-and employers allowing them both to do so without too many financial constraints ie government help.

parents have to bring up the next generation as well as build careers. those who do not have kids will still expect to have a future workforce pay tax to provide for their services when they can no longer work!!!

29

IanW,

08/11/2006 11:04:58

Although the report tries to play down the help Mrs. Blair receives from the state I just wonder how far she would have got on her own , i.e. not married to a leading politician, then PM).

How did she manage to spend over £7000 on her hairdo and still look such a mess? Maybe it's time for a total makeover for her.

30

val,

fife 08/11/2006 11:05:53

re 27: My staff, clients and customers are not going to be impressed if I say I couldn't respond because the baby-sitter wasn't available.

that is the problem-the culture that does not recognise that workers are humans!

unless (perhaps) if you work in emergency services, nothing is more important than looking after your children! it is not a 'cost'!

Any working mother has a network of support for this eventuality. do you get paid to be on call 24/7? if not then your employer should not expect you to be.

31

Dave,

Western Isles 08/11/2006 11:11:02

Some folks are paid to be on call 24/7 on a rota system. Firemen, breakdown and emergancy, doctors, farmers etc etc.

32

Dave,

Western Isles 08/11/2006 11:15:13

Yes Val, we are still responsible for the kids but, as I've pointed out already, we are physically unable to give birth/get pregnant (which means you also have to take responsibility if you don't want to get pregant of course, condoms arn't the most efficient forms of contraceptive and women like sex as much as men) so therefore we are also responsible for the womens well being too, albeit, for a short period of time (9 months to a year maternity leave). You will take a break in your career but you cannot expect to come back to the same pay as a man that erned his performance related bonus during the time women took off to have kids. You haven't earned it.

33

IanW,

08/11/2006 11:19:41

Val #30 - When you rise through any major organisation you do have to take on a certain amount of personal responsibility for matters. This may include being on call 24/7 without pay.

Normally the higher you rise the more of a salary you receive. That is the compensation for having the responsibility. This is understood by both the employer and the employee. Also you will probably find that the majority of people in senior positions have gone through the children of school age group and had to make compensation/sacrificies to get where they are.

I am making the assumption from your comment that you are not in this position and do not therefore understand business management.

Dave #31 - Hi there, did I read rightly that your dear wife is going to present you with another child? Congratulations, I think you will need your upcoming holiday to recover from the shock!

34

val,

fife 08/11/2006 11:21:46

i was married to a policeman so i understand that. that is what i mean about families making choices. if i did not do the majority of the childcare he would not have been able to work shifts etc. whether male or female if you are in that type of work you need support at home if you want a family.

it is not always a lifestyle choice though. some workplaces expect you to ignore your family altogether, especially moving into senior management-no good reason for it.

35

Dave,

Western Isles 08/11/2006 11:27:41

Fair point Val. There is times when the work place should be a little more family friendly. That's why I suggest men and women should work together.

IanW

Is that you Ian? Aye thanks mate, she dropped the bomb on me last week. 4th kid (and last!). We're actually over the moon to tell you the truth, I love my little sprats and another is very welcome. Aye, Friday then off for a week in the sun!

Must have a word with the postman, he doubles as the milkman too so it might be twins! Hahaha!

36

AlanE,

Perth 08/11/2006 11:31:25

Men an women are equal. It is not a God given right of women to "work their way up the ladder".

37

Heimdall,

08/11/2006 11:33:16

I am all for equal opportunities - So what about the children having equal opportunity to have a mother at home to protect, nurture, and educate them and love and be there for them them when they need it and, to be what they say they are, Mothers? Oh I forgot, this government headed by the Blair dynasty have said and shown its alright to say one thing and do the other. Now, as I say, I am all for equal rights and opportunities for all but, if a woman wants to do the important work of being a mother, then thats the job she sould take seriously and take the responsibility responsibly. Multi tasking is an illusion and egotistically driven self image promoted by the comsumer giants that make money out of this sort of delusion placed on the desperate people that already have no focus in life - and no focus means multi-tasking is just not possible, its a myth. Multi-tasking means all the jobs are done badly. I cannot forget the picture of a Mrs Blair opening the door to number 10 in her dressing gown looking less than the first lady should.

38

bupf,

08/11/2006 11:34:24

Businesses are in business to make money , business is not in business for Darwinian pursuits , eg reproduction.

If women want to go off and have children it is no suprise less of them will make it to the top of the tree. To be quite honest , i dont see this as a bad thing, as life is not all about money and ambition.

39

Dave,

Western Isles 08/11/2006 11:36:20

And so says all of us!

40

IanW,

Germany 08/11/2006 11:38:54

Dave #35 - Hi, yep its me. Be careful about the 'last' - if you keep on having the fun you might be in for another wee surprise.

Have a good time, my boss is in Lanzerote for a week and enjoying himself. Hope you have a good time.

41

Dave,

Western Isles 08/11/2006 11:44:16

Cheers Ian. I promise you, it's the last!!!

All the best mate.

42

val,

fife 08/11/2006 11:45:30

I got up to management ranks in banking before my first unexpected child-no contraception is 100% effective! i came back after maternity leave be told-in 1980s- by my manager that i could no longer go on training courses as i had family and, despite having worked to gain my institute of bankers diploma, and promotion, that as i was now part time i would lose my rank and go back to basic pay! so i stayed home at times but also worked part time between having another 2 kids.

Dave-congratulations.
I didn't expect same pay as those not taking time out but surely same pay and opportunities I had before-allowing for inflation! my manager's behaviour is now illegal thank goodness but has had a knock on effect in my career. i have a 'break' in employment that means I had to start at bottom again.

ianw
don't patronise me.
of course i understand business management-got a first class degree. what i mean is that whether senior manager or not if you bring a child into the world you have to deal with the responsibility-whether male and female, and work needs to realise that.

43

Lesley,

Edinburgh 08/11/2006 11:46:29

It's not a matter of gender but of personal choice (if you are lucky enough to have a supportive partner). I returned to work when my child was three months old and her father stayed at home with her. It was a logical decision given that I earned more than he did, but it was also what I wanted to do.

Several years down the line, I work from home, having given up my career 5 years ago, so I could spend more time with my daughter (again my choice - we had less money but that was not an issue). I am working for the company that I left in 2001 - I earn less than I did before and have missed out on a few key promotions, but I am very happy and have a great work/life balance. If I had been a man, and taken a 5 year break, then the same thing would have happened - less money and no promotions........

Life is all about choice - don't blame gender!

44

Dave,

Western Isles 08/11/2006 11:48:48

Ah Lesley sweetness. You are always the voice of calming reason. Good on ya!

45

Lesley,

Edinburgh 08/11/2006 11:51:19

I wasn't yesterday, was I??

46

val,

fife 08/11/2006 11:56:05

exactly lesley-you are lucky to have a company that supports home working.

It is about compromise. too much is in business' favour and that kind of economic rationality is invading homelife!

the government drive to get mothers 'back to work' is not helpful in putting families as priority for some men (and some women!)

I am glad i was home a lot to bring up my well adjusted kids and didn't need to send them to a nursery to be institutionalised as infants. but now i am left with no pension and a low paid job.

47

IanW,

Germany 08/11/2006 11:56:14

Val #42 - Since when does business need to take your personal life choices into consideration? Businesses do not need to realise anything about a couples decision to have children. The couple have to work around the business or leave.

If you feel that I patronised you my apologies. I did make it clear that this was only an assumption based on what you wrote.

48

Dave,

Western Isles 08/11/2006 11:57:14

Nah, you were giving it stick! It was good! Some folks, me included, need a boot up the backside every now and again!

49

eric,

08/11/2006 11:59:03

Nothing difficult about it,My brother was a half baked junkie out his face and he managed to bring kid up ,Its a scam Dont listen to the Pap we are fed .Women are being found out as Lazy sods these days ,because house work and bringing up babies is very much part of the mans life these days .It aint rocket science ,Its funny watching women squirm and look to find other excuses ,

50

Dave,

Western Isles 08/11/2006 12:02:16

Eric

(Cough) erm, agreed (Cough) sshhh! (now watch your back mate!) ;-)

51

Doreen,

08/11/2006 12:04:21

Again funny how all of the comments regarding Mrs Blair and her daughter's looks are from men, you just dont give up do you. As far as her juggling her life is concerned a normal woman has two arms, she probably has 20 plus, it seems to me that her career is a priority for her. I was asked on my first job interview whether I had a boyfriend and if I was planning on any children....I was stunned to be asked this question at the grand old age of 19! and decided that I did not wish to work in that particular establishment. Personally I feel that if a woman decides to have children then they become her priority, it is a huge responsibility and needs to be given full focus. Some jobs businesses are just not built for flexibility...it is a fact, but then again there are some that consign women to the dustbin once they bear the title 'mother' and go off on maternity leave. I have seen women being given a hard time because they have taken time off for their sick children. Modern parenting is a two way street with fathers taking as much responsibility as they possibly can, however if they are the main breadwinner then this obviously will be quite limited. As a woman who does not wish children I find it galling that I be judged on my ability to reproduce....as I am now approaching the end of that possibility I do hope, should I decide to work again, that the issue of my being childless is not seen as a problem I may be hoping to imminently rectify.....therefore again suspect as to my 'employability' and cost to any employer.

There is a lot of generalising going on here on both sides, however I will state this, women, especially working mothers, are GOOD at multi tasking because they have to be, they do have to juggle responsibilites on a daily basis and I have worked with quite a few who are extremely efficient and proficient at this. However to forge ahead women sometimes have to be hard and ruthless, because of the attitudes and obstacles they come up agai

52

val,

08/11/2006 12:05:08

Ianw -I accept your apology. senior managers often make dreadful assumptions through lack of knowledge of the real life their employees live in.

does your company have human resources that deal with human rights legislation? Are all your employees childless? surely a business will have more productive employees if they are more family friendly.

the financial costs of bringing up kids mean it isn't so easy to leave a business which is not supportive when bundles of joy appear on the horizon.

also without families, your business would have no future consumers of goods and services!

53

Doreen,

08/11/2006 12:09:08

Eric, 'half baked junkie out of his face'....I feel sorry for any poor child brought up in those circumstances....how will they turn out eh? Oh but what the hell I'm sure he could turn our a great toast and beans for dinner and was great and cleaning the bath eh? So that disnae f*****g matter eh?

54

Lesley,

Edinburgh 08/11/2006 12:10:16

# Eric.......... :)

I must share something with you - as mentioned before I went back to work and left my daughter at home being cared for by my husband.

He collected me from work (in my company car) on my first day back. His first words to me were "What's for tea?" Yes, he looked after the baby, but I still had to manage the "housework" and no, I agree, it's not rocket science.

My husband's rationale for this - well, before I had the baby I managed to run the house, do the washing, cooking and shopping and still work full time, so if he looked after the baby then my lot had not changed!

PS - He's my ex now..... :)

55

eric,

08/11/2006 12:13:44

53 Turned out just great actually ,Has a Nice job Isnt a junkie doesnt smoke doesnt drink ,Just great thanks,hes done a wonderful job ,Thanks for your concern Doris.

56

eric,

08/11/2006 12:15:06

Lucky Guy

57

eric,

08/11/2006 12:17:11

Yous have been Found out End of .END

58

Doreen,

08/11/2006 12:22:07

Ta ta!

59

eric,

08/11/2006 12:23:01

Not now Doris im Busy busy busy

60

IanW,

Germany 08/11/2006 12:24:25

Val #51 - The business I am with has over 6500 employees spread over 5 countries. We do have a personnel dept. but they are not the most efficient.

Regarding productivity, your comment could be taken as meaning that a non-parent is not as productive in the workplace? I think what you meant there is that they may be more content.

Unfortunately I have found that efficiency and productivity has dropped at my business in the last few years since the introduction of a free creche at each of our sites. Both mothers and fathers tend to arrive later and leave earlier based on the opening times of the creche. They are also more likely to just 'nip down' and see the little one of they have been unwell the night before.

This behaviour does not make for efficiency nor for a happy working environment. Those wiithout children often have to cover for the absences of the parents, sometimes at very short notice.

61

val,

08/11/2006 12:42:01

gosh i would hate to work for you ianw! why don't your creche hours mirror working hours-if not there is not much point in having it?!

i suppose your solution would be to sterilise the workers before employment! in my workplace i would cover for my male or female colleagues- both ten years younger with young children- it is called teamwork! I also cover for employees when they are on coffee or smoking breaks-and they cover for me when i go to the loo! what is your problem?

content workers are, according to research, more productive. scientific management is still alive and well in germany then! if i was worrying about a sick child i certainly would not work at my best. if you could then i worry for any offspring you may have!

62

bupf,

08/11/2006 12:50:28

If you work for multinationals its a lot easier , a creche can be onsite and you an join your kids for lunch. For smaller companies or Victoriana Scotland Financial Insitutions I imagine it can be a lot harder.

Sorry for my no-nonsense business is business reply earlier, it was a bit harsh and foolish.

63

Dave,

Western Isles 08/11/2006 12:52:55

Doreen

Wind your neck in. You shot yourself in the foot with you generalist pap. Leave my wife out of it, she's a gem and treated as such. The only people I can see with larger than life chips on thier shoulders are so called emancipated women who have now realised, life isn't as rosie after all. Welcome to a mans world. Now lets move on and work together as I have repeated over and over again.

64

Dave,

Western Isles 08/11/2006 12:55:34

As a woman who does not wish children I find it galling that I be judged on...... - Doreen

Stop right there. As a man with 3 kids and one on the way, I'm better placed than you to comment. Live in the real world, have kids and see how damn rosie it is!

65

AJ,

Fife 08/11/2006 13:01:01

Well said Dave#63!

However, you forgot to use the word 'pump', as this winds Doreen up nae end!

66

IanW,

Germany 08/11/2006 13:07:01

Val #61 - What on earth are you talking about!!

The creche in my office opens at 07:00 and closes at 17:00, which I humbly suggest covers most peoples working hours! Despite this many colleagues, not all I may say, with children do arrive later due to the fact that the wee ones wern't ready, or were still sleeping, etc. They also go early because perhaps the little one is sick or has a party to go to! Is that the fault of the creche - I would say no it is the fault and responsibility of the parents.

I have absolutely no idea what you are on about concerning sterilisation - where did that extreme comment come from?

We too actively encourage teamwork in my office and we do in my particular department have very good cooperation and support between us. I frequently cover the telephone for my boss's secretary even although I am not required to do so, I do so because I believe in teamwork and supporting others. However in other departments it tends to be the same people who are regularly late/absent and the same colleagues who are expected to cover for them. This does not make for great teamwork as both groups get the same salary at the end of the month. This is a form of abuse by the people who don't pull their weight.

I agree that parents with sick children worry about them and do not always work in the most efficient way. I have this from my own experience as I have 3 children of my own, all of whom are happy, content and succesful in their lives.

67

val,

08/11/2006 13:11:56

it isn't just a mans world dave-it is the real world.

i agree men do not have it easy either. the problem is this 'globalisation' and 'economist driven' business world which thinks it is doing us a 'favour' by using our need of subsistance pay to make the fat cats profit. workers are disposable and shouldn't bring home into workplace-rubbish we are human beings!

getting back to cherie blair being a 'womens champion' she is privileged to be able to earn enough to provide support for her family. us normal folk make the best of things and get on with putting our kids-who didn't ask to be born-first!

the problem is fathers (and mothers) who do not do that. I left my partner because he did not expect to be involved at all with his kids when he was home from work-that was 'woman's work' even if they were out working too!

as he had a decent income, i originally only went back to work full time to save to put my kids through uni when student grants were withdrawn-now that i am single again i need to live on this low income.

68

Dave,

Western Isles 08/11/2006 13:14:25

Val

I did mention the real world in my final comment. what I clumsily tried to express was what men have been confronted with since time began. It isn't that easy for us, likewise you, simple.

Lets work together.

Doreen

Pump.

69

val,

08/11/2006 13:25:06

Ian-if your workers regularly abuse the system they deserve to be disciplined for it-or counselled if they have problems.

my point is that some allowances for family needs makes more loyal employees. if more than a few are abusing the system says more about your work practices.

glad between me, dave and yourself we are helping populate the planet!!

bupf:i think scottish banks have wised up to flexible working but as a mature graduate i couldn't get a graduate post because of my age, and unwillingness to travel (caring responsibilities). This is despite my past bank experience and qualification-that was too long ago.

70

Synchronicity,

08/11/2006 13:31:09

Don't half read some tunnel visioned tripe on here.

Simple fact is that most ordinary women don't have the type of jobs you are all rambling on about here. Even many who do have to make the decision to opt out of the career / materialism rat race and care for their family. Someone has to do it and many WANT to do it.

Me? I'm a professional who has worn herself out juggling career, business and family with zero support network from anywhere. So much so to the extent that my health now suffers and I'm a frazzled worn out wreck. The family thrive, the job still goes on but something has to give. Payback time will hit somewhere if you try to 'have it all' and I suppose it just depends where the weekest link is.

You cannot legislate for human emotional needs. Small employers cannot pay women to have children, they need their staff to work and give 100%. The whole subject is a minefield and there is no black and white answer.

What is important is that women who make the conscious decision to work and raise children are respected for that decision and allowed to get on with it. Of equal value and importance are the women who chose to remain with their children to raise them: that is their choice and their right and they must not be made to feel like second class citizens because of that choise, for it is a brave and honourable thing that they are doing.

Poster who complains about the pay that nursery staff receive, these girls chose that career and they must have been aware of the terms and conditions attached before they went down that route.

Life is about choices. And having respect for the choices that others make.

71

Dave,

Western Isles 08/11/2006 13:33:52

populating the planet Val?? Number 4 on it's way! Arrghhhh!!!

72

IanW,

Germany 08/11/2006 13:42:14

Val #69 - I did say that our personnel dept. are not very efficient.

Believe it or not but the management do actually have a fairly enlightened approach to parenting. We have:
Free creche facilities,
Patternity leave,
Special child leave (both parents),
Flexi-time,
In- house childrens club which organises parties, sports, outings, etc. for next to nothing.

73

Dave,

Western Isles 08/11/2006 13:44:05

Never mind about women breaking the glass ceiling, what about women breaking wind?? Come on, you all do it.

I walked in on my wife one night just as she let off a ripper! I'm telling you, it rattled the cups and saucers but every time I let one off (especially the duvet ones, where we pull the duvet over your head) she complains. What's that all about? Do you save them up or something?

74

Billy,

Germany 08/11/2006 13:48:59

The reason it is so difficult to juggle a career and
bring up a family (Properly), is because it is nearly
impossible. My mother was knackered bringing up 3 kids in a clean happy household. Cooking proper meals takes time, shopping takes time , cleaning
ironing etc left little time to take on a job. Today's
"mothers" seem to think their responsibilities finish
once they have given birth. Kids are for life, and it's the parents RESPONSIBILITY (Look it up ladies) to rear and mould your off-spring. That involves a lot more than memorising their names and showing them how the micro-wave works. By all means go out to work, but if you do, then don't have kids, as you will have great difficulty rearing them properley.

Has a study been done on brat behaviour , comparing families where only one parent works
with those with two working "Parents"?

75

Tony B,

08/11/2006 13:56:59

Whilst you lot bicker amongst yourself, you seem to forget that we should be celebrating the modern female role model that is Cherie Blair.

Marvel at her sound judgement as she uses a convicted Australian con-man to buy her some flats. Shed crocodile tears with her as she initially tries to lie about it, then subsequently blames it on family pressures.

Applaud her giving nature as she rakes in a fee of £102,000 for a charity speech, leaving £6,690 for the charity.

A wacky lifestyle guru, a high-profile and expensive legal-aid defence of a muslim schoolgirl who refused to conform to the dress code, etc.

Good luck getting through that glass ceiling ladies.

76

Lesley,

Edinburgh 08/11/2006 13:57:00

Billy - I refer you to my posts at 43 and 54. Responsibility is a two-way street. Sometimes it's the man who does not take it!

77

Dave,

Western Isles 08/11/2006 14:12:57

I think I proved my point. Women just won't admit they fart.

78

Stewarty,

Stirlingshire 08/11/2006 14:14:34

Why does the world have to have the thoughts of this woman inflicted upon it?

Remember, this is the very same woman who attempted to justify suicide bombing a few years ago.

At least George Dubya's wife tends to keep her mouth shut. Blair would do well to emulate GB.

79

val,

08/11/2006 14:15:24

dave-only just past the point of no return as far as childbearing goes-thank the lord cos in a new relationship! I came from family of 4 kids so wish your family as much fun.

3 is enough to cope with-even as they reach adulthood-and no Blair finances to help! new 'partner' has 2 at uni as well!!!!

Having 3 meant long enough out of decent work though-and yes it was a choice to put them first and not have holidays abroad etc!

Ianw with such enlightened management there is no reason women shouldn't achieve.

my gripe is about how to deal with the 'time out' aspect and how it has caused problems for those women who should have been supported, but weren't in the past, to get to 'the top' in any great numbers. they find it difficult to get back into employment.

long working hours are bad for men and women whether they have kids or not, are in senior or junior positions. if you have kids and neglect their needs it is criminal!

the fact there are not many women at 'top' now does not mean it will not even out in future as
a) parents are supported more
b) men take on more parenting responsibilities

it takes time to build experience and expertise. better part time positions to keep on form while kids are tiny is best.

Doreen please note-they can't discriminate anymore!

80

wattie>x 1,

08/11/2006 14:25:43

Like all families, they have their ups and downs but, where they radically differ, is that they have privilege status.
Papa Blair ranted and raved about the * broken down estate yobos* and what punishment they should expect if they crossed the line. Well, he had a point didn't he?
But Papa Blair made sure that the upper class yobs were more or less exempted from such sanctions e.g. being dragged to a cash point and made to pay an instant fine for bad behavour; telling fibs to the police when found lying drunk on a public footpath;
trying to sell drugs to plain clothes law men;
dressing up in the full Nazi regalia, including the Nazi swastika armband; no, these upper class yobos
were only indulging in teen-age pranks and according to New Labour spokesmen, *we all done it when we were their age, didn't we*?
Bootcamps and locked up in adult prisons for poor estate youngsters and silly grins off admonishments
for the wealthy yobos.
Blair's 2006, them and us Jerusalem!

81

,

08/11/2006 14:35:40
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason: Scotsman Import, Original comment id: 155051, Article id was mapped to record!
82

AJ,

Fife 08/11/2006 14:37:23

Dave,

For f@#ks sake, I can almost imagine the reek!

83

jetsz,

Canada 08/11/2006 14:40:45

I believe the root of achievement is greatly influenced in family dynamics. A healthy balanced family can nurture a healthy balanced person. Family support and respect is the lesson I have learned from this. Tooshay to the families that place a value on their children that money cannot buy. Unfortunately, as true in many cases the motto is, if it isnt perfect, ignore it or favoritism attitude causing family rivolry , dividing the family agaisn't each other...core family values has long been sold for progress. carful what you ask for you just might get it lol

84

Dave,

Western Isles 08/11/2006 14:40:46

AJ

It ain't imaginery, I can tell you that! The wee-ist ones thought it was bloomin' hilarious but they are now strangely quiet............

85

AJ,

Fife 08/11/2006 14:48:52

Dave, employing natural wind power warfare against the bairns - I like that!

86

Dave,

Western Isles 08/11/2006 14:53:15

AJ

Sshh!! I might get hung for deploying chemical warefare tactics on innocent people...............

;-)

87

AJ,

Fife 08/11/2006 14:57:38

Dave, if your farts have a hint of depleted uranium aboot them, it's fine pal. Nae need to worry.

However, if the stench stings the bairns een, it means you've been at the mustard. You can be hung for that!

88

JG,

Fife 08/11/2006 14:58:13

#84 Dave
For goodness sake - OPEN A WINDOW!!!

89

JG,

Fife 08/11/2006 14:59:39

P.S. I'm very pleased your postings aren't "scratch and sniff"!!!!!!!!!!!!!

90

Dave,

Western Isles 08/11/2006 15:03:37

He he he! ;-) feelin' a bit funny actually, gonna lie doon............

91

Martha,

Miami 08/11/2006 15:04:19

If you call your nation a democracy, then there has to be a level playing field in that most important arena, the job market.

That being said, once a couple-- or a single-- decides to have children, those children must come first. You can prate about job equality all you like, but infants need their mothers. So that multi-year hiatus from the job market is going to cost women who have children.

That is the quandry working women face, since men frequently consider their position as family provider to be unassailable and refuse to help out with taking the kids to the doctor, or staying home with them when they're sick, or even doing simple tasks like washing up or doing the laundry.

92

Dave,

Western Isles 08/11/2006 15:06:30

That is the quandry working women face, since men frequently consider their position as family provider to be unassailable and refuse to help out with taking the kids to the doctor, or staying home with them when they're sick, or even doing simple tasks like washing up or doing the laundry. Martha.

You also said that infants need thier mother with no mention of father. Which is it then Martha?

93

Billy,

Germany 08/11/2006 15:06:49

Yes Lesley the upbringing of your off-spring is the responsibility of man and women, hence the phrase
"Parents responsibility" which featured in my post.

Having said that ,the female ,(ASSUMING THE MALE IS AT WORK) has the lion's share of raising the family, or do you disagree ?. Then again, I would like to see any data on families from within our huge benefit brigades, where the men are so badly invalided that they are surely at home for most of the day , leaving the house only to keep their appointments with Dr Landlord and Dr Bookies.

94

Martha,

Miami 08/11/2006 15:10:11

As for Dubya's wife, she's a real lady and an example to every woman of how to conduct herself in a position of moral, if not legal, authority. Totally unlike her nasty, scheming, contemptuous predecessor, Hillary Clinton, who is a real piece of work-- a leftist, feminist, hypocrite who is a real nightmare.

95

AJ,

Fife 08/11/2006 15:10:32

Who will grab the 100 this time - male or female

96

AJ,

Fife 08/11/2006 15:12:44

Martha,

Dubya's wife keeps a low profile, because she's embarrassed to be associated with such an eejit!!

97

Dave,

Western Isles 08/11/2006 15:15:01

Aye AJ. Well said. Won't be me - 97!

98

Martha,

Miami 08/11/2006 15:15:19

Dave: biology dictates that the infant needs its mother far more than it needs its father. As the baby grows past three months of age, daddy can and should take over some parenting responsibility, such as playing with the child, changing its nappies, giving it a bath. And frankly, BOTH parents should work hard at their primary responsibility.

I've been in the job market many years, in addition to having raised three children. My observation is that the man is still the primary breadwinner in most (not all) cases, and women have to take second place in that area when there are children at home. Once the kids leave for university, there's absolutely no excuse for not rewarding a woman identically to a man in the workplace.

There's also the fact that many women are satisfied with their position as mother first and working partner second. My opinion is that if a woman really wants to make it to the top of the corporate ladder-- if that's her main goal in life-- then she better not have children. Because frankly, if you bring a child into the world, motherhood better be your main goal in life, and your career secondary to it.

99

AJ,

Fife 08/11/2006 15:16:03

I'll have a stab the noo

100

AJ,

Fife 08/11/2006 15:17:02

Come here ya wee.....

101

Peter 100,

08/11/2006 15:17:25

ah martha you reveal your true colours, no wonder bush was elected if there many americans with your mentallity

102

AJ,

Fife 08/11/2006 15:18:14

Another one added to the collection -btw it's called OCD, before anyone has a go!!

103

val,

08/11/2006 15:18:17

martha -that is the issue. those men who are not as enlightened as Dave (!) have no excuse nowadays to take that sexist line.

yes we women need time for bodies to readjust after childbirth and time to breastfeed etc but after that ALL childcare can be shared-it often is not.

in my local government workplace i work with several younger blokes who use flexitime to pick up kids, or work jobshare, take time off if kids are sick etc and i am quite jealous of a female colleague who got her hours adjusted so she could breastfeed her son at lunchtime. I did not have that kind of help when mine were young.

unfortunately when folk my age are applying for posts the HR folk and employers 'judging' us, even if female, are either our age, fought through the hassles and are jealous we stayed at home, or so young that they don't realise we had it so tough cos it is easier for them.

though i do exactly the same job as colleagues, because of 'tenure' my pay is thousands less!

104

Martha,

Miami 08/11/2006 15:20:24

AJ-- Dubya's wife does not keep a low profile. She's very active not only here at home, but also internationally. I know you don't get much info about her nor should you-- we don't read anything of Cherie Blair either.

Laura Bush is much loved in this country, and much admired, and deservedly so.

105

Dave,

Western Isles 08/11/2006 15:20:39

Good on ya AJ! You're some cookie so ye are!

Martha

I refer you to post 32.

106

Dave,

Western Isles 08/11/2006 15:23:03

Val

I about chocked on my coffee!! Enlightended? Me?? I get called a dinosaur regularly and criticised for sending me wife out to work while I stay at home. It's nowt to do with enlightenment, it's economic pressure that dictates what we are doing in our lives at the moment. However, thanks for the compliment, I'll be sure to show the missus later!!

107

IanW,

Germany 08/11/2006 15:25:42

Martha #98 - Strange comment! If I ever suggested to my wife that was "..satisfied with their position as mother first and working partner second." I would very soon be joining the category of female as I would have been emasculated by her.

It is not a question of being satisfied with the role - there is also the very real fact that they simply become resigned to it. This does not mean that they like it.

108

Martha,

Miami 08/11/2006 15:28:06

Val-- there are very tough laws in the US about equality in the workplace. It's still possible to get around them, however, but at least there is legal recourse when it happens, and really massive fines for the offending employer/manager.

I don't know from personal experience what the situation in Britain is regarding women in the workplace so can't comment on that, any more than I can comment on Cherie Blair's approach to motherhood.

However, motherhood is universal, and I do know firsthand what the demands on the mother are of childbearing and caring for infants, toddlers, and little children. And, I have personal experience of how difficult it is to return to the job market after spending fifteen years caring for children to ensure they have a good start in life. It's not easy. But I wanted children more than I wanted to be CEO of some international corporation.

But we can't forget that there are tens of millions of working women whose salaries are just as important to their families as the male spouse's-- or these women are single parents who must work to support themselves.

In any case, ANY gender-based discrimination in the workplace is wrong. And, employers have to retrain themselves to understand that their employees are wives, husbands, mothers and fathers first, and workers second; and that these employees work to live. They don't live to work.

109

AJ,

Fife 08/11/2006 15:28:21

Martha,

If Laura Bush was like Cherie and mucked about with evil criminals to serve her own needs, I'm sure we would have heard about it! Come to think of itl, I suppose she does!!!!!

110

Martha,

Miami 08/11/2006 15:30:31

IanW-- a sad commentary on women who regard motherhood as an unwanted burden, that they are "resigned" to it. Contraceptives are widely available, so if women don't want to be so burdened, they can avail themselves of medical solutions to the problem.

You have to get your priorities straight before embarking on parenthood, and this is as true for men as it is for women.

111

AJ,

Fife 08/11/2006 15:32:04

Martha,

I would imagine Laura Bush is busy, visiting all the poor wounded and mutilated US troops in the military hospitals all over America.

All thanks to her husband and his henchmen.

112

Martha,

Miami 08/11/2006 15:32:54

AJ-- we heard about Hillary "mucking about" with evil criminals with her law firm. And goodness knows who killed advisor Vince Foster, with whom it was rumored Hillary had an affair.

Laura Bush seems unimpeachable, just as squeaky-clean as Barbara Bush, her mother-in-law.

113

Martha,

Miami 08/11/2006 15:34:11

AJ-- you're biased beyond any rational point, so I won't bother replying henceforth.

114

Dave,

Western Isles 08/11/2006 15:34:19

However, motherhood is universal - Martha

Erm no Martha. I can't enter motherhood, nor can any other Male. It's half universal, whatever the big word for that is? Semiversal?

115

val,

08/11/2006 15:35:11

dave-economic pressure is right. hence i stayed home in early days and ex now has big pension and i have none! divorce settlement nowhere in sight and he says as i did not work much i shouldn't get much!! that's a whole other topic as my pay is so low i cannot afford the mortgage-of course it was my 'choice' to throw him out!!!

martha-women really do not 'need to take second place' at all-couples should decide what suits their circumstances.

dave-make your wife a nice drink when she gets home from her hard day at work, after you've done the laundry, cleaned the loos and spruced yourself up for a romantic evening-she's already pregnant so no worries there!

116

AJ,

Fife 08/11/2006 15:41:37

Martha,

Internal American politics at the top level, has always been driven by skullduggery. I'm not attacking Laura Bush, I'm showing pity for her. She will be tainted along with her husband, for the rest of her life.

Perhaps, a large portion of the American public feel the same way, given Dubya's current poll rating!

Christ Dave, it was better when your bowels wented into action stations!!:))

117

Dave,

Western Isles 08/11/2006 15:42:43

Thanks Val.

My good lady is well looked after! But I expect her to do her bit when she gets home, as a women would expect of her man nowadays!

118

val,

08/11/2006 15:49:00

well said Dave

pregnancy is not a disease-but I am sure you are used to the problems it does cause at times!

119

Dave,

Western Isles 08/11/2006 15:52:40

All to used to it Val! However, she's a hardy girl and I'm well proud of her! She carries herself with a great deal of dignity.........

120

AJ,

Fife 08/11/2006 15:55:32

Invented a new word today - wented!

121

bill, england,

08/11/2006 15:57:22

Val 115

Get yourself a good lawyer - seriously.

122

AJ,

Fife 08/11/2006 15:58:43

Dave, you'll have the ladies eating oot the palm of your hand, with talk like that. Or has the missus just walked through the front door?!?

123

Dave,

Western Isles 08/11/2006 15:59:58

Not quite AJ but with talk of wented, whose gonna eat out of yours??

124

val,

08/11/2006 16:01:16

bill
got one but pension sharing means i cannot draw my bit til 60 and he can from next year!

his monthly pension more than my pay

equality ain't here yet!

125

AJ,

Fife 08/11/2006 16:05:07

Ma wee mongerel dugs

126

Martha,

Miami 08/11/2006 16:09:40

Laura Bush "tainted?" Not hardly, except in your febrile imagination.

George W. Bush had some exceptional challenges thrown at him, largely because Slick Willy was too busy getting blow jobs from his interns to pay attention to his responsibilities.

I believe that history will judge him far more leniently than you, a foreigner to these shores, ever will.

127

bill, england,

08/11/2006 16:11:08

Val 124

Seems to me that any settlement should provide for equal share of the estate and the pensions, but maybe as you say equality ain't here yet!

128

JG,

Fife 08/11/2006 16:12:26

#112 Martha
Did Barbara Bush not make a really stupid comment just after Hurricane Katrina that she received a justified kicking in the press for?

129

val,

08/11/2006 16:18:01

that is true bill but as i get no access to money from pension until i retire (at least 15 years away) that doesn't pay the mortgage, although it would give me my 'share' of assets.

hoping courts recognise the disparity in future earning potential as seen in rest of these postings.

when women are in a couple and have joint income it may not be an issue that the mother takes time out, but after breakdown of a relationships it is. sadly that is becoming more common. i am not alone!

130

AJ,

Fife 08/11/2006 16:25:09

Martha,

At post 113 you said you wouldn't reply to my outrageously biased comments!!!

I'm glad you did, as our time on this earth is too short to fall out over the complexities of a Bush!

131

Martha,

Miami 08/11/2006 16:26:57

Can't answer that, JG, because I didn't hear about it.

132

Joanna,

Cambs 08/11/2006 16:33:57

How did we get on to the subject of Laura Bush? This article is about *our* beloved leader's wife isn't it? However, on the subject of Laura Bush and just out of interest - does she have a career?

Personally, I think there are some jobs which are not compatible with motherhood ..... the armed forces is one and I speak from personal experience and opinion on that.

You can dress it up anyway you like but if a woman wants children and wants to care for them herself then I don't think she can be a hard nosed career woman and burst throught 'the glass ceiling' as well. However, if she is prepared and able to pay for nannies and childcare like Cherie Blair then she will put her career before her children and leave them to the care of others.

Life is all about compromises and no-one can have it all.

133

JG,

Fife 08/11/2006 16:36:51

#131 Martha
Really? It even made the news over here! Well, just to keep you up to speed here is what she said

“And so many of the people in the arena here (in Houston), you know, were underprivileged anyway, so this — this [she chuckles slightly] is working very well for them.”

What a very thoughtful and considerate comment for a woman in her position to have made! Her son didn't even bother to properly organise having these people rescued after the event. Pretty poor performance all round from the Bush family there, then!!!!

134

Joanna,

Cambs 08/11/2006 16:42:39

So, in other words JG, the poor ba****ds should be grateful that they got blasted out of their homes by Katrina!!

She wouldn't win any prizes for diplomacy would she?

135

AJ,

Fife 08/11/2006 16:44:34

JG#132,

Didn't the Bush administration just rescue white people during the emergency?

136

val,

08/11/2006 16:46:42

as i have been trying to say-the glass ceiling is not the real issue. on the way up there you will have found the means to find alternative care if you wish. any children you have will have suffered by neglect of whichever parent is up there-the job designs that in by demanding unfriendly to families imperatives!

the problem is far greater - the ordinary man or woman just trying to earn a decent wage while caring for a family too. the fact is: those who do manage to get to the top are childless or have had to compromise family responsibilities-therefore will not be responsive to family friendly policies being introduced.

get that right and women will eventually get through any apparent 'ceiling' anyway.

137

JG,

Fife 08/11/2006 16:47:32

#132 Joanna
It is a bit off subject and I don't know who started it!!

I think life is all about choices. Some women choose to have children - which is fine - and some women either choose not to or are unable to have children.

It is unreasonable to expect that you can go off, have your family then return to work under the same conditions or pay rates as the people who haven't. The women who have stayed at work either through choice or circumstance have earned their salaries through hard work and dedication.

People like Cherie Blair who have (on the face of it) managed to do both due to having the financial wherewithall are very fortunate.

138

JG,

Fife 08/11/2006 16:49:25

#135 AJ
I think the Bush adminstration only rescued RICH people from Hurricane Katrina!

139

AJ,

Fife 08/11/2006 16:54:22

JG#138,
Make that - Rich White people!!

Martha,

Don't you agree?

140

JG,

Fife 08/11/2006 17:01:46

#139 AJ
Sorry, I'm not trying to be smart here, but I've been to New Orleans a couple of times in the past and thought it was a beautiful place, so when Hurricane Katrina struck I paid quite a lot of attention to it. The worst affected areas were the poorest parts of the city where the majority of the occupants were indeed black, although there were quite a few white people in the same situation. It was those people who were left to survive as best as they could. I think it was a cultural divide that prevailed as opposed to a racist one.

141

AJ,

Fife 08/11/2006 17:09:18

JG,

I remember the insinuations of the media at the time and they certainly tried to add a racist slant to the whole rescue operation. I'm sure, in general terms that was not the case. But I have to say that the cultural and racial differences can be quite closely linked.

I think the main problem, was that the State and the Central Govt couldn't mobilise in such away that a coherent operation could take place!

I also seem to remember Bush was not giving a sh*t as the thing unfolded. That didn't go down well either!!

142

JG,

Fife 08/11/2006 17:15:40

AJ
Can't argue with that! The other thing that struck me was that I think it took about 6 days for the official help to get there but the news helicopters were buzzing around like flies almost instantly. I thought the US had a few more helicopters than Channel 6 news or Fox!!!

143

socialmedic,

USA 08/11/2006 18:19:00

Since when is the fight against woman and man? Men have it all worked out, if they cant trap the lady at home they just get the lady to pay for her own education and then demand that if she intends to get anywhere in the work world she will sooner or later have to sleep with them. Frankly, may as well stand on a street corner. Even bigger, is the fight against woman and immigrants who perceive that woman of the west still has the marriage prostitution way out and therefore the immigrant views itself more worthy of a place in the work place. But a woman's biggest enemy of all is WOMEN, most of whom are sleeping their way up, one way or another who view other women as competition in thier prostitution profession. Find a Blair who isn't married to a Blair or a women sucessful anywhere who has not married or taken money from a man she slept with somewhere along the line. It simply does not exist. Men have it all worked out, if you can get past them, the immigrants, and other women you may have a snails chance at the grand prix.

144

Doreen,

Glasgow 08/11/2006 19:04:21

Oh well then we're all whores and punters....whehey
party on.....!!!!!!!!!!!!pass that poster the smelling salts they're in dire need.

Dave

farty pants

145

Doreen,

Glasgow 08/11/2006 19:19:39

By the way I do live in the real world and that includes my not having children, do you have a problem with that? As far as my ability to comment is concerned, my sisters have children, my cousins, my female friends and my female colleagues at work, I have witnessed first hand their issues regarding a career and child-rearing and they have shared with me on numerous occassions their problems and needs. As a woman I have been criticised for not having children and have seen women criticised for having them, I may not have given birth or adopted but I do believe I have a right to comment on the subject matter.

146

Faye,

Scotland 08/11/2006 19:32:35

Women have the brains that industry need. The problem seems to be men in the boardroom clinging onto power, yet some act like bairns at home.

147

Mucker,

Weedgie Land 08/11/2006 20:03:14

In New Orleans, the less privileged and non white people who were not rescued, were more interested in looting plasma TV's than getting on one of the buses provided for them and getting the hell out of there.

148

Mucker,

Weedgie Land 08/11/2006 20:08:49

Faye,
no they don't.
women are, in general, below average intelligence.

149

JG,

Fife 08/11/2006 20:15:18

#147 Mucker
There were actually no buses provided for the people in the poor section of the city, just as there were no escape plans in place for them either. The people who were REALLY stranded i.e. the ones baking to death on their house roofs never stole anything. I guess the ones you are meaning are the criminals who broke in to the shops, at first for food but then for anything - including the plasmas. It seemed a bit pointless as there would be nowhere to plug them in!!! Or a dry place to store them.

150

Mucker,

Weedgie Land 08/11/2006 20:24:05

Doreen,
why do you hate men so much?

151

Mucker,

Weedgie Land 08/11/2006 20:33:32

JG, why couldn't these underprivileged people just use the skills they had honed over the years to steal and hotwire a car and drive themselves out of the area?
They did it most nights anyway for fun, what was so different about this time when their lives depended on it?
They could have even got a flatscreen TV in the boot.

152

N,

East Lothian, Scotland 08/11/2006 20:34:40

I believe that most people, men and women, just want to make a good job of what they're doing. If they are miserable at home, then they won't be so effective at work. If organisations can give their employees the opportunity to enjoy life outside of work, as well as time at work, then surely more would get done, and happier staff are less stressed, so less time off sick and less money spent on absenteeism. We need to see people as whole individuals not just as workers and respect the need of both men and women to have quality time with their families.

153

JG,

Fife 08/11/2006 20:40:20

#151 Mucker
Well, I think it was a wee bit rainy and there was a bit of a breeze going on too! A lot of the privileged, non criminal type people couldn't get out either.

154

Mucker,

Weedgie Land 08/11/2006 20:44:09

N
No they don't, most people are lazy and are out to get what they can for as little effort as possible.
If they are miserable at home then that is there problem, not the employers.
An employer is actually doing someone a favour by hiring them, the least they can expect back is for that person to do a fair days work.
The world does not owe anyone a living, people need to get off their fat arses and work hard for what they want. Life is not a bed of roses, if you're not happy with your life then you have deal with it.

155

Doreen,

Glasgow 08/11/2006 20:45:35

Mucker makes you think that I hate men?

156

Mucker,

Weedgie Land 08/11/2006 20:49:24

Well, it's always breezy and raining over here and we still manage to go about our business.
Besides, everyone in N.O. had plenty of advance warning of the forthcoming hurricane. If they chose to ignore that warning then it's their own fault if they suffered.

157

Mucker,

Weedgie Land 08/11/2006 20:52:06

Doreen, because you're jealous that you don't have a penis.

158

Synchronicity,

08/11/2006 20:55:45

DOREEN 145, you have NO right to comment on having children and how it changes perspective and attitude. You can watch and observe people with children all you like sweetheart.............. It's not the same and it just never will be. I do agree with some of what you've said on here, but I can assure you that giving birth changes your outlook on absolutely everything, forever. Male or female - if you are childless, you don't have a fekin clue! (And I mean that in the nicest possible way!)

159

Mucker,

Weedgie Land 08/11/2006 20:59:16

158. Synchronicity Well said!
She doesn't have any kids because no man in his right mind would have anything to do with her.
It's no wonder she is a lesbian

160

JG,

Fife 08/11/2006 20:59:17

Mucker, I think you are at work tonight, feeling a bit bored and are trying to start an online argument with anyone who will bite!

161

Doreen,

Glasgow 08/11/2006 21:01:33

Aaaaaaaah penis envy, ah yes that auld chestnut, I have an opinion that is at odds with yours therefore I am jealous of your willy....makes sense....to a man at least.......at least I am assuming you are a man.

I think, dear Mucker, that the truth is you are the one with penis envy, you seem to be quite miserable, have a low opinion of women and are pretty negative in many ways. I suspect that you are not happy with yourself and would like to be someone else eh?, but then I am sure you will tell me otherwise. Not to worry dont fret it, there are a lot of support networks out there for men in need.

I dont have penis envy because I already have one, my partner shares his with me regularly!

ps chinese say quality not quantity that count.

162

Mucker,

Weedgie Land 08/11/2006 21:09:20

JG you are indeed a wise man, not like these bloody women on here that should be taking care of their man and not wasting everyones time with their pointless opinions on a message board.
Geez, it's no wonder none of them can keep a man, they have no idea how to care for one.

163

,

08/11/2006 21:12:36
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason: Scotsman Import, Original comment id: 155887, Article id was mapped to record!
164

JG,

Fife 08/11/2006 21:19:27

And you are being very bad Mucker!!! I had a wee difference of opinion with an American poster the other day and was called a "popinjay" and a "coxcomb". It turns out that is an insult!!!

165

N,

East Lothian, Scotland 08/11/2006 21:19:42

Mucker 154 - I disagree with almost everything you say, but agree that " if you're not happy with your life then you have deal with it" - Yes, people have to make choices about how they spend their time. If they are not happy, no point in moaning, you have to make a change. However - if employers are able to provide a working environment which caters for flexible working and enables all staff, men and women to spend time with their families, then they will become an employer of choice. Remember, unemployment levels are at an all time low. Employers need to be supportive of their staff if they want to retain the best talent, and get the most out of them.

166

Paula,

The wilds of West Lothian 08/11/2006 22:07:50

I love seeing how Cherie Blair portrays herself, it just shows how far from truth these people get. She loves to think of herself as a role model for women but if I had a daughter this gurning freeloader is the last person I would want her to look up to!

I nearly wet myself laughing when she gave that lovely speech about juggling balls (presumably Tony's) and how hard it is to be a mother etc. etc. I will remember that when it is my turn to buy my sons a dodgy deal flat, oh that is right, in reality most people can't afford one home let alone buying ones for the kids.

Cherie, for Gods sake, when Tony finally skips off along the yellow brick road please follow him.

167

wattie>x 1,

08/11/2006 22:21:29

After reading a few of the infantile comments on this board; I now know why the bent politicians rub their hands in glee and are desperately waiting on 2007 to come to recommence with their lying, deceit and to swell their already loaded bank balances.
If this is typical of the banter that abounds in Scotland, it will take another 400 years before we regain our dignity and independence!

168

Doreen,

Glasgow 08/11/2006 22:22:23

Sorry Synchronicity but I disagree with you, I have every right to comment just as anyone has on this forum, obviously I cannot speak from personal experience but only that of women I know. I am still entitled to my opinion as an individual and should not be silenced by you because I have not given birth.

So Mucker, first of all I have 'penis envy', then I am a lesbian (which is not an insult incidentally even though you obviously think that it is)as no man will have me, then you resort to even baser insults such as 'throwing a sausage up a close' albeit you were baited but you rose to it predictably. Resorting to (pathetic) insults doesnt quite tally with your 'women in general are less intelligent' when you yourself are descending to these depths. You are going to try a bit harder dear. Judging by your comment at 162 I would say that you have really spat the dummy out tonight. What happened? get a knock back in the pub? no one impressed by your dazzling repartee? How does one care for a man who lays his cards on the table as per post 162......crikey mate you must be beating them off with a big stick covered in jobbies eh?

169

Mucker,

Weedgie Land 08/11/2006 22:24:33

Well, I've just enjoyed a lovely dinner, lovingly prepared by my lovely woman who knows how to care for her hard working man, thanks honey.
164. JG, ha ha them Yanks have their own version of English, I have trouble undestanding them myself.
That one sounds a bit of a fanny, although that means something completly different to them too.

170

bill, england,

08/11/2006 22:28:55

Has anyone noticed how Cherie and her brood look like the party faithful, North Koreans perhaps?

171

,

08/11/2006 22:35:09
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason: Scotsman Import, Original comment id: 155990, Article id was mapped to record!
172

Faye,

In the Boardroom 08/11/2006 22:37:19

Mucker. You're fired!

173

Mucker,

Weedgie Land 08/11/2006 22:38:37

170. bill, england
Yes, that's an interesting slant you put on it.

174

Mucker,

Weedgie Land 08/11/2006 22:41:45

172. Faye, In the Boardroom
How about I get you in the bedroom and fire one into you?

175

AJ,

Fife 08/11/2006 22:45:57

Sounds like Mucker and Doreen were once an item!

176

Mucker,

Weedgie Land 08/11/2006 22:50:29

175. AJ, Fife
ha ha, can you imagine any self respecting man coming home to that after a hard days work?
Perish the thought.

177

AJ,

Fife 08/11/2006 22:55:03

Nothing wrong wi a wee bit of feistiness, Mucker.

178

,

08/11/2006 22:56:41
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason: Scotsman Import, Original comment id: 156036, Article id was mapped to record!
179

Mucker,

Weedgie Land 08/11/2006 23:02:18

178. Doreen, Glasgow
You sound jealous darling, you want a piece of a real man, don't you?
Watch out Faye, she could be a bunny boiler.

180

AJ,

Fife 08/11/2006 23:02:59

Jeez Mucker, you better gie up noo or they'll be picking up bits of you all ower Glesca!

181

Faye,

In the Boardroom 08/11/2006 23:04:19

Mucker, are you stupid? You have shown an inability to understand the rules. You have dominated this thread, insulted people, showed that you have a bad attitude and, on that basis, you should be fired from the Scotsman forum.

Now back to the story. I thought the Institute of Directors should be the one standing up for other female directors. Why is a labour politician's wife fighting for the higher echelons of society?

What about all these women of child bearing age who can't find long term work? Why is New labour not championing that cause? Meanwhile some company directors, male or female continue to consider such young women workers as a liability to the business simply because of their rights to maternity pay.

And Mucker, don't bother to post. Your comments are not welcome. In fact they are extremely dull, tedious and menacing.

182

noremac,

not too far away 08/11/2006 23:06:59

Mucker and Doreen,why dont you two meet up and and have a dual,you know with pistols.

183

JG,

Fife 08/11/2006 23:16:43

#181 Faye
I can understand the reluctance of small companies in particular to employ "women of child bearing age". Whatever anyone says, people don't operate companies in order to facilitate family life, they are trying to make a profit. Think about it. You are the manager of a small company looking to fill a post and there are two applicants (equally qualified) one is young and has been married for 3 years the other is older and has two children at University. Who would you employ?

184

val*,

scotland 08/11/2006 23:19:33

faye
nice to see someone stick to the point.

it is about women staying in work long enough to get to the top. those are the barriers that need broken down.

careers are not what they used to be when long term work is not an option.

185

val*,

scotland 08/11/2006 23:21:26

jg
i have 2 at uni but it was the young lasses who got the good jobs-ageism is worse for women

186

JG,

Fife 08/11/2006 23:23:45

So Val, women are doomed irrespective of what they do?

187

Faye,

In the Boardroom 08/11/2006 23:37:11

With my boardroom hat on, the older one who has two children. Absolutely!

My point is New Labour seem worried about female directors getting to the boardroom but less worried about family life! We know companies are in it for a profit - companies pay on average £14k less per annum to female directors who often work longer hours than male directors!

Small companies cannot afford to employ women of child bearing age but yet labour throw money to large corporate companies, why not help smaller companies in this area? Motorola was one such company which soaked the UK taxpayer and look what happened there.

SME's are the life blood of the UK economy so why should labour be worried about female directors - isn't that the job of the Insitute of Directors?

188

Menzies,

Canada 09/11/2006 02:33:21

#78 Stewarty: Blair HAS been emulating GW and I don't think it's turned out very well.

189

Menzies,

Canada 09/11/2006 02:41:54

#112 Martha: ah yes, squeaky clean Barbara Bush who told the displaced predominantly black people after Katrina how lucky they were to be living in squalor in a stadium, embarrassing the whole nation with her patronizing upper class whitebread attitude. Yep, she squeaks alright.

190

Menzies,

Canada 09/11/2006 02:44:33

#126: I think the Amurcan people just judged him pretty harshly. AND sent that wicked commie pinko socialist Hilary Clinton back to the Senate. hehe

191

Menzies,

Canada 09/11/2006 02:46:56

I'm still gobsmacked about £7,000 SUBSIDY for a hairdresser. You mean he cost even more? That's $17,500 Canadian. For one head of hair. Wow.

192

Menzies,

Canada 09/11/2006 02:51:10

#150 Mucker: you make a comment like you did in 148 and wonder why you aren't liked? That's not a glass ceiling you built there, that's a cave.

193

Menzies,

Canada 09/11/2006 03:03:23

ok, back on topic: unscientific observation of my workplace: the younger ones seem to work things more equitably with what appears to be pretty fair sharing of household and child-rearing work loads. The older the woman, the less support she seems to get in this regard from her partner. Income level and education seem to weigh in there too.

Have to agree with Graeme #2: how hard can it be to juggle those things with a support team like that? Does she have to dash home to cook or get the groceries? Gie us a break.

194

Menzies,

Canada 09/11/2006 03:04:08

I seem to have shut the room down.

195

Dave,

Western Isles 09/11/2006 07:50:38

Sigh.

Whinging, cliping, back biting. It's like being in a horrible marraige. Work together people, not against.

196

val,

09/11/2006 08:47:31

dave
work together is right-we are all different but allowances need to be made to make it equal..

mind you had a thought about the post 81 and ilk-

women simmer and occasionally blow their tops but most men are so full of hot air that they need to let it out whenever the need arises.

bit generalist but this thread proves the point-which gender kept most on track!

only joking!

197

val,

09/11/2006 08:51:22

another thought-

i am a director of a cancer support charity so i guess i am 'in the boardroom' and really making a difference-though it is on a voluntary basis with no fat cat pay so i guess it doesn't 'count'-oh the plight of women-though genders are equal on our board!!!

198

AJ,

Fife 09/11/2006 09:50:24

Aha, a 200 up for grabs!

199

AJ,

Fife 09/11/2006 09:51:01

This OCD is kicking in!

200

AJ,

Fife 09/11/2006 09:51:17

Gotcha ya wee beezer!!

201

JG,

Fife 09/11/2006 10:44:42

I knew you'd log in time to take the 200!! I think you DO have OCD - have you got a sensor on your computer?

202

Digit,

Glasgow 09/11/2006 10:46:27

Sadly women are women's worst enemy a lot of the time through their lack of support for each other.

203

AJ,

Fife 09/11/2006 10:55:30

JG,

Don't know what it is, I just seem to know when the big number is coming up! It's probably just a phase:)

Enough of that, don't you think Digit is a very interesting name given the context of her comment?

204

socialmedic,

USA 09/11/2006 12:32:59

Thank you Digit. 202, I would post you a photo of a child bearing aged woman from Europe giving me the finger as I was working in the South of France this fall ... if I had the space to post images. As Mary Wollstonecraft observed in the late 1700's and things have not changed much for women since then, the younger women just don't really strike out on thier own putting off child bearing until they at least acheive certain autonomy in education and skills; to try to break the code is practically suicidal TODAY. Add to that that even 20 years ago, I do not recall that men have never been so discriminatory against women over the age of 26 socially, much perpetuated by the fashion and entertainment industries which have endlessly rubbed all of our noses into 22 year old cleavages, size D, false or real, for the better part of our days while outsourcing labor to Chinese industrial interests. Young women of today are heavily invested in marrying money as their mothers were before my generation. By some curious coincidence all the girls in the west suddenly, wittingly or unwittingly, show up to everything dressed like Chinese prostitutes, and along with that comes the mentality, a kind of mentality that can only make sense when there are billions of people competing for the same space and time. Women have never had so much backwardness to fight.

205

CS,

Edinburgh 09/11/2006 12:54:59

Never a truer saying "You cannot have it all" it should be qualified however by adding "if you are a woman" with it being even truer if you are a single parent. I am both (like many others forced into this position) because my ex -husband has all but abandend his parental responsibility to our two young children, am left in the untenable position of having to do it all, entirely alone. The consequence being that I and others like me cannot excell where their natural abilities lie. Instead we have to take whatever jobs we can get, regardless of their suitability, to allow us to juggle all our sole responsibilities. So to Cherie Blair and her ilk I say "Naff off" you do not know what you are talking about, come down to the "coal face" and do it all before you start bleating on about "career paths" and "glass ceilings". Until there is something truely resembling a level playing field, then women do not have a snowballs chance in hell of equality in life never mind the workplace.

206

val,

09/11/2006 13:22:31

cs
i sympathise. been there done that.

travis
american business practices imported here didn't help.

my early career hampered by reagan/thatcher
my post kids career by blair/bush policies

and the world revolves with nothing changing -

207

Menzies,

Canada 09/11/2006 13:50:51

195 & 196: you're absolutely right. That's at the bottom of it all.

Val, enjoyed your thoughtful posts. Thanks.

208

Mucker,

Weedgie Land 09/11/2006 16:58:24

206. CS, Edinburgh
Oh dear, another Woman who can't keep a man.
Maybe if you had been more of a woman to him, he would still be around, eh?

209

Mucker,

Weedgie Land 09/11/2006 17:01:52

207. val you too hen.
You kicked your poor man out and then complain about how hard things are without him and you want his bloody pension that he worked so hard for

210

JG,

Fife 09/11/2006 18:27:05

#210 Mucker
And I wonder who is going to bite for you today?

211

Mucker,

Weedgie Land 09/11/2006 19:17:25

JG
caught a fish last night, at least it smelt like one haha

212

val*,

09/11/2006 20:57:39

mucker
i guess i did not work hard either then bringing up 3 kids!
would rather have had chance to earn own pension and a bit of help raising our offspring.

why would anyone want to keep a pet dinosaur!

213

Faye,

In the boardroom 09/11/2006 21:01:40

Mucker's back on the late shift. Poor soul doesn't understand he's been fired, not wanted. Guess he's hanging about like a bad smell.

Ms Fox needs to tackle his type.

214

Mucker,

In Fayes Bedroom, Firing One Into Her 09/11/2006 22:36:45

Hi Faye, you just can't resist me canyou?
Don't get Val and Doreen jealous now.

215

Mucker,

Not In Doreens Bedroom, Firing One Into Her 09/11/2006 22:51:40

Doreen doll, this link was at the bottom of this page, coincidence or what?


Learn Why Men Leave Women
Learn What Men Really Want and How To Find & Attract Lasting Love
InsideAGuysMind.com

Let us know how you get on.

216

Faye,

Breaking the Glass Ceiling 09/11/2006 23:59:43

No Bite, Mucker - too unsavoury for my liking. Dor or Val can have you but neither are likely to touch you with a barge pole. We're all too busy climbing to the top of the glass ceiling so that we can leave poor soles (sic) like you behind!


 

Comment on this Story

 

In order to post comments you must Register or Sign In

 
 
 
  

 
 

Web Links:

Featured Advertising



Sister Newspapers:
Press Complaints Commission

This website and its associated newspaper adheres to the Press Complaints Commission’s Code of Practice. If you have a complaint about editorial content which relates to inaccuracy or intrusion, then contact the Editor by clicking here.

If you remain dissatisfied with the response provided then you can contact the PCC by clicking here.