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Bill for CalMac tender is £15m

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Published Date:
08 March 2007
European fairness rules on ferry routes cost £15m Ministers forced to open up CalMac's routes to competition Restructuring includes new highly-paid Executive staff positions
Key quote:
"Other countries stand up to Europe and negotiate a good deal. The Scottish Lib Dems have capitulated to Brussels and Westminster and paid for the privilege." - Fergus Ewing, SNP transport spokesman

Story in full A SHAKE-UP of Scotland's main ferry company - forced by European competition rules - has cost more than £15 million and made the operation hundreds of thousands of pounds a year more expensive to run, ministers have admitted.

The SNP claims the restructuring of Caledonian MacBrayne has been "the most expensive exercise in futility from a supine [Scottish] Executive".

However, Tavish Scott, the transport minister, said ministers could not break the law by defying the European Commission directive, which required them to put CalMac's routes out to competitive tender.

News of the costs comes five weeks after the tender process was left in tatters when CalMac's last remaining challenger for its west coast network pulled out, claiming the process was flawed.

And there was not one bid last year for CalMac's Gourock-Dunoon route, which was tendered separately because of existing competition from Western Ferries.

In response to a parliamentary question from Jim Mather, a Highlands and Islands SNP MSP, Mr Scott said the tendering exercise had cost the Executive at least £15,366,769.

The lion's share - £11 million - was due to a one-off clawback of tax relief by the Treasury because CalMac was split into separate ferry-operating and vessel-owning companies.

Tax relief was previously claimed by CalMac because it both owned and operated its ferries, and related to its past investment in new vessels, but this will no longer be applicable.

The Executive said the tax loss was non-recurring.

However, the establishment last year of Caledonian Maritime Assets, the new vessel-owning firm, will add nearly £300,000 a year in extra senior staff costs alone.

Its chief executive is paid £80,000, with three other directors paid £60,000 each.

These new posts are in addition to four equivalent posts at CalMac - now CalMac Ferries - which carry similar salaries.

The tendering costs also include nearly £1.7 million in Executive staff costs, £1.1 million in CalMac restructuring costs and almost £938,000 in external legal advice for the Executive.

However, the Executive's staff costs do not include those of some senior officials or ministers, because their time cannot be accounted for separately.

Last year, the Executive paid CalMac some £32 million in subsidy to top up its income of about £52 million.

Fergus Ewing, the SNP transport spokesman, said: "The Scottish taxpayer and Scotland's ferry-users have seen a sum equivalent to almost one half of the total cost of the ferry subsidy for a year, go on the tender exercise.

"Other countries stand up to Europe and negotiate a good deal. The Scottish Lib Dems have capitulated to Brussels and Westminster and paid for the privilege."

David Davidson, the Scottish Conservative transport spokesman, said: "Sadly, I am not at all surprised by these figures, which merely underscore what we have always known, namely that the Lib-Lab pact's handling of the CalMac tender has been a farce from the start."

A spokesman for Mr Scott said: "The Executive's priority, as it has always been, is to protect lifeline ferry services.

"We were presented with no alternative but to tender in order to ensure that the subsidy was in line with European law.

"Ministers are not allowed to break the law," he said. "That doesn't mean I like the laws."

TENDER TIMETABLE

THE Scottish Executive has been embroiled in the competitive tender process for Caledonian MacBrayne's routes for eight years.

1999: European Commission orders competitive tendering for CalMac. Ministers win the concession to tender the routes as a single bundle.

2002: The Executive launches public consultation on the tendering process as discussions with commission continue.

2004: Following prolonged negotiations with Brussels, the Executive concedes it will have to proceed with tendering.

December 2004: Ministers are defeated in a Holyrood vote by MSPs who call for the tender process to be abandoned.

May 2005: MSPs vote to comply with commission over tendering.

February 2006: CalMac sets up offshore firm Caledonian MacBrayne Crewing (Guernsey) so that its 800 seagoing staff can avoid paying National Insurance.

May 2006: Western Ferries - one of only two rivals to CalMac - withdraws from the tendering battle, criticising the process.

June 2006: The Scotsman reports that V.Ships, the only other challenger, may also withdraw after it loses the competition for the NorthLink ferry contract to CalMac.

October 2006: CalMac is split up, with Caledonian Maritime Assets established to take over ownership of its ferries and terminals.

January 2007: V.Ships confirms that it is pulling out of the tender competition.

Page 1 of 1

  • Last Updated: 08 March 2007 1:10 AM
  • Source: The Scotsman
  • Location: Edinburgh
  • Related Topics: Caledonian MacBrayne
 
1

Faye,

Scotland 08/03/2007 01:54:08

Does anyone think like me? This so called fairness, called choice for the customer can sometimes result in absolute mayhem.

Take 192, directory enquiries, now no longer!

Simple everyday tasks in life are made more difficult.

The only saving grace is the old Bank of Scotland which has managed to hold onto good old fashioned values, service but even that is under pressure with its merger with the Halifax!

Then there is our postal services which are mush reduced, send an envelope, measure it, is it the right size, right weight and will it arrive tomorrow?

Now we have excellent ferry services under attack.
Calmac has offered some good services. I haven't had reason to complain but I have had about the connecting bus service, the private companies that wish to rush away before the ferry lands!

What next?

All these so called government organisations which are set up to protect the customer is absolute hogwash.

How much are they costing us?

I say bring back, our post offices, good service and stop this nonsense, 0870 or 0845 numbers.

2

Wisnaeme,

08/03/2007 02:12:29

P*ss up and brewery are words that spring to mind.

3

,

08/03/2007 02:34:09
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason: Scotsman Import, Original comment id: 426213, Article id was mapped to record!
4

Navvy,

08/03/2007 02:54:37

Faye
If you can be so wrong over Bank of Scotland then how can you be trusted on other issues.

I have been a BoS customer for 45 years. I had HOBS when it came in in the early 90s. Now I have to go to 2 websites to see all my accounts, I can no longer pre pay bills - i used to "pay" my credit card etc bill on arrival with the money being debited on the future date specified up to 6 weeks ahead. Now I can't.
They tried to rob me on an overdaft They messed up all my cards, duplicting some, issuing some which had already expired, cancelling one yet still sending me Null statements.
After 5 years of asking they still do not have my name correct.
They changed my credit card with out asking and messed up a time sensitive payment by 3 weeks.

They are useless and most of it stems from their take over by Halifax which uesed to be OK as a Building Society but have gone to pot too.

They give my elderly mother the run around

They dumped sensitive details of 15,000 customers on an Aberdeen doorstep and have yet to expain why or how

There have been many posts on this theme

5

Navvy,

08/03/2007 02:57:45

Somebody out there voted for the Holyrood ijits.

We have joined the EU club but still have not learned to play the game like the French or Italians or Germans - they say OK and just get on as they always have. We dafties argue till the cows come home and them cave in and set up our own little civil servant hitlers to terrorise us all.

The world belongs to the Lord,
And all that it contains
Except the Western Isles
For they belong to McBraynes

6

radical theologian,

california 08/03/2007 05:56:37

Well, who are these numpties? And I don't mean the politicians, but the weak-willed supine electorate who repeatedly vote them into office.

7

Dod fae Orkney,

North Sea 08/03/2007 06:17:32

Is anyone really surprised?? Wasting money seems to be a Labour/Libdem hobby. #s 2,5 & 6 said it all. Roll on May. Lets get rid of them all.

8

Perkins,

Loch Lomond 08/03/2007 07:36:13

Faye #1

I have to agree with your point that these political driven tendering requirements are a waste of money.
The Euro politicians will say they are protecting us by insisting on tendering for each community service, but why then does the Paris Metro or the London underground not have to do this same tendering ?

These sort of requirements to spend huge money for a pointless exercise should be challenged.

The outcome of this situation is that because of some drip in Brussells, I have to pay more to sail to Mull.

Don't we deserve better than this ???

9

William of Liberton,

08/03/2007 07:36:52

If Scotland had been independent with its own independent representation at Brussels (rather than Whitehall ignoramuses with little interest or knowledge of Scotland) this fiasco could have been avoided.

10

Billy,

Germany 08/03/2007 07:42:12

Other countries in Europe simply ignore EU rules that they don't like. No sane goverment would have gone ahead with this. It seems the euro gravy train is so attractive to our trough feeders, that they are happy to sell their country down the river in the hope of being invited aboard . Please remember these decisions at the next election.

11

BBH,

08/03/2007 07:45:41

Navvy #4: Why are you still with the Bank of Scotland then? There are many other banks to choose from, any of which could give you better service than that. Or do you just like moaning ...? :p

12

Rob me blind,

08/03/2007 07:53:07

I hope someone will tell us just how they managed to spend so much on a few adverts and a set of documents to allow the tender process to work. If this VFM from the executive maybe we should privatise them and put there jobs out to tender.

I also find it incredible that chairman Alex is saying ignore Europe and do it our way when he is so busy telling us all how we will benefit from the EU

13

Rob,

08/03/2007 07:58:07

What outstanding bollocks! To answer Perkins question, no, we don't deserve better beacause we don't have anyone even close to capable running the country now and won't have post election either. William of Liberton has the solution though - his wonderfully ridiculous remark just reminds me that it could get worse if the "It's Timers" get a shot at it.

14

William of Liberton,

08/03/2007 08:38:13

13. Rob My remark at 9 is not ill-founded: the Scotsman itself recently revealed the contents of a document prepared by a senior Executive civil servant complaining that Whitehall civil servants, and ministers too, no doubt, are not interested in representing Scotland's distinct requirements in Brussels. And even if they were willing to provide adequate representation they would be too ignorant to do so properly.

15

Billy,

Germany 08/03/2007 08:45:52

What's ridiculous about #9. He is absolutley right !!.
Labour don't give a toss about Scotland, that has been proven time and time again, this is just another shining example of their weakness. We must unshackle ourselves from this outdated socialist mind-set. Stand up and move forward. Something only possible if we are Independent.

Rob, your defeatist attitude speaks volumes for the damage done by decades of labour control. You have been brainwashed into accepting the status -quo of mediocrity, exactly as labour planned.

16

Toast,

08/03/2007 08:47:52

Tavish Scott is the weak link,goodbye. That is ferries and fishing that the lib/dem [a mickey mouse joke of a party] have allowed european interest to take precidence over Scottish interests,and they support the union !!,aye right.

17

conservative,

Fife 08/03/2007 08:49:03

15, Billy
unfortunately most of the SNP don't care much about what's good for Scotland either - they care about what's good for themselves.

Wake up to the fact that the SNP are politicians and only want a good drum to bang to try to gain some power. With no experience of running a country what chances do you think they have of making a job of it?

It's easy to snipe, harder to do the job.

18

thinking,

Scotland 08/03/2007 08:52:07

The Executive are always wasting money. Note they always call it Government money, or Executive funds instead of calling it for what it really is-taxpayers hard earned money

19

Richard Lionheart,

Edinburgh 08/03/2007 09:02:45

Maybe it's time for Government by Internet!

We could get rid of all these rotten layers of government, Europe, Westminster, Holyrood, City Chambers, and run it ourselves via the blog!

We couldn't do any worse!

20

William of Liberton,

08/03/2007 09:04:00

17. conservative, :you are making a common mistake in suggesting that if we vote SNP to get independence we will be saddled with SNP politicians for the rest of time. Post-independence, we shall continue to have a democracy (probably more of democracy than the elective dictatorship we endure at present under UK rule) and will elect whatever replacements we feel we need.

21

livilion,

livingston 08/03/2007 09:14:01

#17. conservative, Fife
""..With no experience of running a country what chances do you think they have of making a job of it?..""

Presumably you'll be in favour of making Gordy Broon President for Life, who else has experience of running the country, but the incumbent?

It's easy to snipe, harder to do the job.

22

Cadgers,

perth 08/03/2007 09:18:54

#9 #14 #20 All well said William

23

livilion,

livingston 08/03/2007 09:18:55

#19. Richard Lionheart,

You don't read these blogs much, do you?

24

livilion,

livingston 08/03/2007 09:26:55

13. Rob
Tell that to the former Clyde shipyard workers, soon to be joined by the folk from Fergusons at Port Glasgow.

What has Whitehall ever done for them?

25

Billy,

Germany 08/03/2007 09:30:43

#17 you don't seem to realise the SNP want independence not power. They would dissolve sooner or later and form new scottish parties depending on their right or left tendencies. What experience of running a country did any of our executive have before coming to power?A very very weak argument against independence.

ON what do you base your argument that the SNP don't care about Scotland ?????.

26

Gordon,

Edinburgh 08/03/2007 09:33:23

The Skye bridge is now toll-free, so the rebranding of CalMac should have been as a "mobile bridge company" - then allow free travel, without upsetting the Eurocrats.

27

eric,

Lothian 08/03/2007 09:39:25

Like we are going to listen to the Tory party!

28

Richard Lionheart,

Edinburgh 08/03/2007 09:40:59

#23, make as much sense as the Scottish Parliament! If not more some times!

29

Richard Lionheart,

Edinburgh 08/03/2007 09:43:30

#23 refer you to 26. See if we adopt this it's done. Get's my vote!

30

Falsyde,

HIGHLAND SEP 08/03/2007 09:57:46

I find it amazing that anyone should find it amazing that this stupidity is with us. Why are we in the EU in the first place? We were taken there by Ted Heath who used our Fisheries as the price to pay for entry into what then was the EEC despite the fact we were doing perfectly well in the other trading block called EFTA.

The SNP's transport spokesman Fergus Ewing for whom I have a lot of respect sums it up well but glides swiftly over the fact that the SNP want to subject Scotland to EU dictat as an alternative to Westminster. A real no brainer that.

Then we have the classic silly comment from # 3 this morning, "why should they complain if they choose to live on an island"? well sir, if all island livers moved to the mainland do you think you could afford to compete for house price competition? Are the circumstances of island living to be the exclusive preserve of the wealthy? I don't think so. Anyway, responding with silly comments is never a solution, you might struggle to get the fish for your fish and chips in your cosy wee Edinburgh bubble.

In Norway they have flat rate transport costs, which mean that regardless of where you life, the costs are similar if not totally the same. Norway is not in the EU - wisely - and they can manage their fisheries to their advantage without being plundered silly by the Spanish, Danes, French, uncle Tom Cobbly and all. Our economy is bled white annually to the tune of £950 - £1,000 MILLION on account of lost fishery economics, not to say the social and other dislocation which goes with it plus the environmental damage associated with unsustainable activities like that.

The SEP policy to address part of this would be to allow all fuel producers and suppliers to charge what they like, as now, but they would have to supply everyone in Scotland at the same price. They would not be allowed to refuse deleiveries to bona fide retailers on account of their living and operating in remote areas or

31

ACS,

St Andrews 08/03/2007 10:00:26

Party politics aside, Canada and Scandinavian countries run some fantastic free ferry services as part of their road networks. Why can't Scotland? Then we wouldn't need a ridiculous tendering process. "£32 million in subsidy" and "income of about £52 million" doesn't seem very much when compared to the likely cost of the 2012 Olympics!

32

Falsyde,

HIGHLAND SEP 08/03/2007 10:22:30

Sorry # 9 You are mistaken, Scotland in the EU will have the same amount of clout in Bruxxels as we have now -------Zilch. The sooner folk wise up to this the sooner things will get better.

The subsequent remarks further down by 'Conservative" neatly sum up why they are clinging to the wreckage. Not only do his remarks make little sense, [no change there then] they are increasingly irrelevant.

The fact is, Scotland is going to resume her full sovereignty, it's as clear as night follows day. The people are now better educated, more widely travelled, able to research and annalise for themselves via the internet, as we are doing right now, and they know that to be aspirational no longer per se means having to emigrate.

Scotland, to quote a dear friend will have to go through its "valley of tears" first before coming out into the sunlit uplands, the sooner it starts the better. Independence, no matter how much we all want it, either on the left, centre or right, is not going to happen in 2007 but the ground work is being laid. the SNP did an excellent job trashing GERS as far as they went, we in the SEP have taken that work of fiction further and hope to publish it next week.

A wee taster perhaps for now, Scotland for 2004/5 was in surplus to the tune of £9.632 billion. Where do we get these figures from? good question simply answered, we got them from the UK government's own data, it is just we had to work rather hard to follow the paper trail. Every thing will be cited and cross referenced to ensure it can't be challenged but we expect to be entertained by the likes of 'la petit merde' wriggling and obfuscating, after all that's all he has ever done. Happy days!

An after thought, for those who spout on about Scotland having a huge deficit, allegedly of variously £4-5 BILLION annually, try this, for the 12 months to the 3rd quarter of 2006 the UK deficit was £ 70 Billion near enough, now go figure what, using their own s

33

Kenmac,

Oban 08/03/2007 10:25:13

Poor old Rob #13

He recognises his own inadequacy but thinks everyone else out there is like himself.
Lock yourself in and apply for Free Personal Care.
You may have a long wait, though.

Looking after a decent transport infrastructure is so basic and yet some of our trunk roads are an embarassment. Travel on the A82 between Tarbet and Inverarnan and you will encouter a single track section with traffic lights. It has been there for 30 years!
Most of our rail network has not materially improved since it was built in the 19th century.

34

weeshooie,

Livingston 08/03/2007 10:40:08

No surprise really. Look at the balls up they have made of fishing and everything else they touch.

Why can we not do what the French and Germans do and protect out own interests. They do not put everything out to tender, They just go ahead and award contracts to suit themselves.

15 Million for a tender. they should be sacked on the spot, the whole bloody lot of them.

Tavish Scott is a misnomer, it should be Tavish Euro. He doesnt give a toss about the Scots, he is only interested in making a name for himself just the same as the rest of the time wasters. Unfortunately the name he is making I cannot print or this would be removed.

Jack just gives away 6 million to a country to help the poor, and nothing to help the poor at home. Tavish Scott just spends millions on ideas that he has to backtrack on eventually. Why don;t we cut out the middle man and get rid of them.

Every day I read something about this Executive or the "London Mafia " which makes my blood boil. totally sick of it I am, vote SNP I will; Give them a chance we should. No worse can they do.
Christ, Yoda could do better than this lot.

35

Duncan,

ALBA GU BRATH 08/03/2007 10:42:12

Falsyde. Please excuse my ignorance. What does SEP stand for. Is the Scottish Enterprise Party ?
I am totally convinced that we need independence as soon as possible to save us from more of this madness, but I am wary of the SNP policy of being in the EU. However I think they will be getting my vote as they are the only viable option right now to get close to independence.
The EU can be dealt with after we are independent. Norway has shown the way forward on that.
Just found the Enterprise Party site, and the advice is to vote for SNP for the constituency MSP and SEP for the list MSP. Makes perfect sense to me.

36

Duncan,

ALBA GU BRATH 08/03/2007 10:44:13

#34 Weeshooie.

Who is "christ yoda." Sounds like a Star Wars chappie.

37

Duncan,

ALBA GU BRATH 08/03/2007 10:44:36

#34 Weeshooie.

Who is "christ yoda?" Sounds like a Star Wars chappie.

38

Duncan,

ALBA GU BRATH 08/03/2007 10:45:04

Sorry :>)

39

Chikderic,

Inverness 08/03/2007 10:48:50

So often European law is blamed when,i n fact, it is British civil servants' interpretation of European law which is at fault. May I suggest that in future before any European law is implemented in this country an investigation is made as to how other countries implement or intend to implement the law. I suspect that many of the idiocies inflicted on us will vanish.

The underlying problem is the recruitment of senior civil servants almost entirely from public school educated Oxbridge graduates with arts degrees. So many of their decisions smack of a puerile junior common room.

40

David MacVicar,

web 08/03/2007 10:56:34

#30 Falsyde. I agree with most of what you are saying, specifically equal costs and benefits. I come from Kintyre which actually suffers because it is not an island but might as well be.

However I disagree with some of your EU comments. It is true that the Fisheries have been decimated by EU policy that the UK agreed to. It is also true that Norway etc have made better use of its various resources outside the EU. You are surely aware though that the UK negotiates what is best for Scotland within the EU. Scotland must 1st become independent and decide whether or not to remain within the EU. I am personally for remaining within the EU. On becoming independent Scotland would almost certainly be a new member state of the EU with a position to horse trade as everyone else does.

In other words it is very difficult to say that EU membership is bad for Scotland overall since ‘Scotland’ is not a member state. There is nevertheless clear evidence that the UK government (insert party of choice) does not represent Scottish interest at both UK and EU levels. Or indeed any level.

Scotland is basically a locked warehouse where Westminster has the master key. The key is used to let resources (of whatever kind) flow out and the key is used to put trident etc in. This is so obvious it is mind boggling. The ‘key’ in question is Wesminster control and policy.
Time the locks were changed!

41

Erse,

Middle East 08/03/2007 11:06:12

I wish Scaramouche was here to give us a rendition of 'Hey Big Tender'

Get well soon Scaramouche!

42

weeshooie,

Livingston 08/03/2007 11:06:19

#34 Duncan.
It wisnae "Christ yoda", it wis "Christ, Yoda"
a wee pause in there Duncan. never mind, both of them would do a better job than this lot.

43

,

08/03/2007 11:22:08
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
44

Sedov,

Scotland 08/03/2007 11:33:20

The European Union is a big bosses club where they make up their own rules to suit themselves as they go along. It is not democratic but a huge beaurocratic monster that is out of control, a bit like capitalism itself. The people who are best to own and run Fergusons are the workers themselves as part of a United Socialist State of Europe. Nationalism under the SNP can never acheive this and in fact actually sees an 'independent' Scotland as part of the EU which is perfectly natural as the SNP stands for a capitalist Scotland and independence is a total myth in these circumstances,

45

livilion,

livingston 08/03/2007 11:36:33

Notwithstanding the gross waste of my taxmoney, when inviting these tenders, who else exactly has the resources to provide the number of ferries to cover these crossings that CalMac has?

Do they supply a cheaper quote then buy off all of the CalMac boats?

Frankly I'd sooner see these ferries run for the benefit of the islanders than for lining the pockets of shareholders.

Make them free at the point of use and inject some much needed life into these communities.

My instinct is that this would end up cost neutral as industry and visitor numbers in the area start to rise.

£15m a year to supply footpassengers unlimited free passage on every ferry, on every route?

That's how much was spent doing up Prince Albert's statue in Hyde Park, just across the road from the Royal Albert Hall.

Just do it FGS, the taxman will make it back up anyway from the increased prosperity and spending which would surely follow on the islands..

Frankly I'd let Coaches and trucks go free too, cost of goods on these islands is high enough just by mileage.

London gets its M25, widening, and North Circular at goodness knows how much .
£3.5billions just to upgrade the Jubilee line and tube stations, and the rest, too many to mention, because they apparently are worth it.

Aren't we?

46

Interested citizen,

Edinburgh 08/03/2007 11:38:42

£938,000 for external legal advice !?!? As someone who buys external legal advice for a large, private sector business, that is a truly astonishing amount.

Does the Executive not have internal lawyers that can do some of the work (as most provate businesses do) ?

And they definitely need to get smarter about how they tender for external legal advice !

47

doris d,

08/03/2007 11:41:31

I recently attended a function where Christine May (Labour) and a Lib chap were addressing business people. According to them all is well in Scotland-there's nothing to worry about!!!! We've never had it so good and things are simply not as bad as they are being painted.
The fact that no-one contradicted them seemed to me to be a very depressing portent of things to come!!

48

livilion,

livingston 08/03/2007 11:43:16

43. Archie, Gourock
Nostradamus?
I'd call you 'Nae Loss'!

Enjoy your Caledonian Society and your 'dear hame across the water',
soor faced smert erses like you we're well shot of.

49

livilion,

livingston 08/03/2007 11:54:39

44. Sedov
You conveniently forget the raison d'etre for the European Union in the First place.

WWI and WWII, and avoiding WWIII.

If this means a wee bit sharing of sovereignty, hell we've being doing that for 300 years and survived.

The difference is that this time we do it on terms of our own choosing and not because someone has a knife to our throat.

Socialism?
Really, that is sooo 70's.

50

Angus Ogg,

Leaving On A Jet Plane 08/03/2007 11:59:54

#43

Archie from Gourock, well said. In fact priceless: "The Best Wee Mess In The World".

Still laughing; Billy Connolly couldn't have summed it up better, and therein lays the rub. Apparently five million people have left the UK in hte last 5 years. This figure has only been obscured by the number of eastern european workers immigrating to the UK and the asylum seekers.

Those with get-up-and-go, are getting up and going. This is a very serious issue. Just now on the back of an unprecedented property boom all is rosey on the surface of the UK economy, but we are headed, lemming like for another 1970's and 1990's house price colapse and awful recession.

Then what will happen? The job creators and business creators are leaving in droves. Who will pay the dole for all the unemployed and repossessed then? Are we in for another Harold Wilson/Edward Heath economic meltdown?

As for the topic of this thread, Archie fae Gourock, you are lucky, you can get on Western Ferries. We are stuck on Arran, held hostage by CalMac, and no hope of any fair competition because of the appalling stitch up of the tender process by the FibDems. If wasting 15 million squid wasnt bad enough, we islanders still have NO COMPETITION on our ferry routes.

Worse, CalMac are physically blocking Brodick Pier to keep the competition out.

51

Ellie,

Edinburgh 08/03/2007 12:00:09

§ Navvy....Here Here!!!!

52

morris,

edinburgh 08/03/2007 12:00:19

17
You are correct.The SNP have absolutely no experience of being so unpopular in Scotland that they could still lose some deposits,they have no experience of governing Scotland for 18 years when nobody wanted the party in power and certainly not Thatcher leading it.
They have no experience of lying for 30 years about the prospects of an independent Scotland and suppressing the report of Prof Gavin McCrone.
They have no experience of trying to introduce the Poll Tax when no one in history has successfully done so anywhere ever!
They certainly dont have any experience of reducing British Steel Capacity required by the EU by reducing Scotland by 100% (Ravenscraig).
IN fact nobody can blame the SNP for anything since they have no experience,whereas Westminster cannot possibly be NOT GUILTY!

SAOR ALBA!

53

livilion,

livingston 08/03/2007 12:08:27

47. doris d
You're depressed things are not as bad as they're painted?

Not everyone has their views coloured for them by the Sun and the Daily Record.

It has long been established that Scotland is one of the top 20 richest countries per capita in the world, or would be, if we banked our income into our own account.

54

D bute,

bute 08/03/2007 12:15:31

time for road equivalent tarriff, almost every island community in scotland has a declining and ageing population becausse of the cost of the ferries. What the executive has created is economic decline. Do they really want people to live on our islands? What has been created is mamba -wee quaint depopulated museums full lifestyle migrants and the retired who are not economically active, the enterprising individuals and businesss that remain do so in spite of the policies of the s exec. They have ensured our Island communities remain economically marginal and re-inforced peripherality and insularity, depsite EU policy being the opposite to encouage people to stay on islands. Reduce the fares and the economy will come back the jobs created will encourage young people to stay -repopulation. The current fares are ridiculous in a european context the structure does not recognise families and it discriminates against people with children and discriminates against young people in full time education and it discriminates against business by charging prohibative fares where no competition exists. Dogs come before children on the cal mac website this says a lot about the management -out of date and out of touch. This company and I use this term in its loosest sense has little strategic overveiw of its customers its staff its vessels or its harbours or integration with other transport links.

55

Dave From Barra,

Western Isles 08/03/2007 12:25:28

£15million. That is £3 for every man, woman and child in Scotland.

56

livilion,

livingston 08/03/2007 12:27:26

50. Angus Ogg

My old maw would love to swop with you on Arran.

She's got a 3 bedroomed ex cooncil end terrace(block of three) house in East Kilbride, in a good neighbourhood, very tastefully decorated, with a very high standard of fixtures and fittings throughout, lounge 30'x15', gch, gsh, ns, dg, double shower, big bath, bidet, concrete double garage etc.

She's looked, but these days nothing on the island is in her price range.

Seems that in the last few years Arran, of all the islands, is doing quite well for itself thankyou very much.

How come?

57

Billy,

Germany 08/03/2007 12:33:33

#41, in honour of the great Bard (Get well soon), I shall make my poetic debut. Needless to say not in his class , but nevertheless, to the tune of Big Spender :

As soon as they put in their bid (Boom Boom),
I could tell they were a firm of deception,
A real big tender,
Pot ugly and undignified, so tight-fisted
they dont even pay NI,
Well let me get right to the point (Boom Boom),
Your fooling no-one you see,
Hey big tender,(hey big tender)
How much.... to bribe a MSPPPPPP.

Well done mr Scott (Boom Boom)
Yet another total disaster, and what a big spender,
Bend over and drop your trews,
Here come the EU and their in the mood.
Let s get right to the point (Boom Boom)
15 million is just a drop in the big blue sea,
Just wait till your ousted (wait till your ousted)
Then come to Brussels with me me me me me me.

58

livilion,

livingston 08/03/2007 12:34:22

55. Dave From Barra

Well spotted!

I hear there's a position as Chancellor of the Exchequer coming up soon.

No fancy it?

59

John D.,

Yorkshire, England 08/03/2007 12:39:34

I would like to see the people of Scotland revolt against the dictatorship imposed by the E.U. Perhaps then my countrymen would be stirred into demanding the right to decide for themselves whether they want to join the European madhouse.
Livilion suggests that the EU is to prevent a third world war. It seems to me that the EU is a way for France to conquer the U.K without a physical fight.

60

Sedov,

Scotland 08/03/2007 13:00:59

#49 livilion - Of course one of the spin offs from the EU has been peace in Europe as the big money players in the single market would suffer from conflict - but the main reason for the EU was to carve up the market maily for France and Germany. The UK only came in when it was obvious that their markets in the commonwealth were drying up and they wanted some of the action, so its always money that is to the forefront of capitalist thinking.
So you think socialism is so 70's? Try telling that to the fourth largest oil producer in the world, Venezuala or John Mcdonnel who could be challenging Brown for the leadership of the LP and although he will not get in, the campaign for socialism is attraction thousands across the country -so its a start anyway. Even the left reformists of the SSP and solidarity have a few thousand supporters in Scotland, many of whom are youn people who were not even born in the 1970's. You should try and get out more my friend or even start reading beyond the Scotsman and popular press, you might learn more. Remember knowledge is power. I can give you loads of web sites to enlighten your narrow mind.

61

Nobby Clarke,

christchurch 08/03/2007 13:12:02

typical eu law of unintended consequence. The sooner we are out the better.

62

Dave From Barra,

Western Isles 08/03/2007 13:14:11

Nah livilion, I'm too generous with my money!

63

Angus Ogg,

Leaving On A Jet Plane 08/03/2007 13:16:02

Hi 56 Livilion,

I think you kind of answered your own post about high house prices. Your dear old Maw is living in an ex-council house. Either she, or the person she bought it off, took up the Tory Right-to-Buy offer.

Seems so many people sold out their socialist principals that property prices went up. We see a lot of it here on Arran as you so clearly wish to point out.

Nice try though.

64

livilion,

livingston 08/03/2007 13:29:42

#59. John D., Yorkshire

The original EU WAS to prevent the disasters of two world wars and the rise of fascism being possible again in Europe.

Remember, much of Western Europe was ruled by their military, until very recently.

That has been achieved and the experiment has been rolling out North and East.
Too late for the Balkans or Yugoslavia, but better late than never.

I've travelled over Europe by land, and the ease of travelling without borders, passports or exchange rates to distract me was an inspiration.

I work for a multi $billion company which has whole departments who's function is only to buy and sell currency and raw materials, for manufacturing processes, across international markets.

Single market, single currency, single set of employment laws makes so much more commercial and common sense.

Scotland does 2/3rds of her trade with England.

When the US's economy sneezes, England's catches cold.
When England's economy get's ill, Scotland's dies.

Scotland can no longer afford to be dependent on such a small market for her well being and that of her population.

Remember Black Wednesday?

France taking over the UK, did I not read recently that the French offered to sack their President and take the Queen as their head of state back in the 50's?

When Eire was poor she was dependent on the UK as her main market.

Look at her now.

She 'works' the EU to her own benefit, rather than using it to convince her own people that they are inferior and dependent on handouts.

E'bah goom, I'm sure there's a lesson there for the good people of Yorkshire and their quest for self determination.

Good luck!

65

George Mc,

Ayrshire 08/03/2007 13:31:30

43. Archie.

Good Luck. I for one will miss your posts on here.

Shame you couldn't take Livilion with you!

The only thing thats keeping me in "The best wee mess in the world" is my kids and I am delighted to say that they have good Hon degrees and are looking at Australia.

I hope that it works out for you and your family. I just wish I was younger and then...

66

livilion,

livingston 08/03/2007 13:44:25

#63. Angus Ogg

Actually it was Jim Callaghan's right to buy she took advantage of, back in the mid 70's.

It had the major difference that she bought her council house at the going market rate.

Maggie's scheme was fundamentally different in that she sought to create a property owning tory elite, and repaint Scotland's political map tory blue, by giving away council property at knock down prices and to prevent the building of replacements by denying councils the receipts for their sale.

She failed because, in Scotland at least, owning your own home does not have to make you a Tory.

The legacy, as you know, is now a chronic shortage of affordable rented housing.

67

Billy,

Germany 08/03/2007 13:53:56

Remind me again, livilion, how long have labour been in power, and how many houses have they built, obviously not enough to stop a "chronic" shortage. As for owning your own home does not make you a tory in Scotland ?????????.

Does it make you a tory in england. Socialist clap-trap at it's finest. Your a tory in england but you can own a house in scotland and still be a good socialist?
classic stuff.

68

John D.,

Yorkshire, England. 08/03/2007 13:58:12

My best pal, having served his 'time' as a decorator, went self employed and even, occasionally employed others under him when he needed help. His father-in-law was upset because this was Tory behaviour. Buying his own house was also a betrayal of socialist working class ideals.
In fact, socialism was meant to raise working classes to the standards enjoyed by the middle and upper classes. It is like religion, in that men can be made to believe anything if it is done in the name of some ideal.

69

jacky,

Grimsby England 08/03/2007 14:01:17

Ted Heath gave our fishing industry away to the French and Spanish in order to secure a free berth for his yacht in Cannes.

Our fishermen are throwing their above quotas back into the sea,I cant see the French or the Spanish doing that!

And looking at the shrimp size of some of their fish on their stalls they appear to put two fingers up to net mesh sizes too!

70

Angus Ogg,

Leaving On A Jet Plane 08/03/2007 14:07:00

#66 Livilion,

I agree with your last post on houses wholeheartedly.

My gripe is being held hostage on an island. You may say our island is doing very well, but that is besides the point and not the thread.

To explain; if, over in sunny Livingston, you were forced to use a bus from your house to anywhere away from your home; if you were forced to only use one monopolised bus company; if that bus company charged you £50 return to go from your house into town; if that bus company had three clippies, two drivers, eighteen staff on board, and two employees on the bus roof to catch the ropes, would you be happy?

Worse, if that bus company forced other bus companies off the road, and physically blocked the bus stance with a spare bus to keep out the competition would you be happy?

If that bus company enjoyed a £31,000,000 subsidy and the FibDems fiddled the tender of the service so it kept its monopoly, would you be happy?

To add insult to injury, would you, as a taxpayer, and bus/ferry customer, be happy to pay an extra £17,0000,000 in increased fares and taxes to cover the bus company's tender costs?

Last but not least, and leaving the bus analogy to return to the CalMac ferry thread, did V-Ships or Western Ferries, or any other private ferry company have all their tender costs refunded by the Scottish Executive?

As Archie says: "The Best Wee Mess In The World" !

71

ScotsLass58,

Red Kens Toon 08/03/2007 14:15:58

Perhaps the solution to all this pathetic recurring nonsense eminating from Brussels is:
1) Vote SNP in on May 3rd.
2) Vote for Independence.
3) Vote dissolution from E.U.

Result:
Scotland is returned to the people of Scotland. Scotland is run by the Scots for the Scots from Scotland. Most importantly, a ceasation of downright stupid and incompetent rulings from the numpties in Brussels. These twatheads have cost the people of Scotland millions, not just in financial terms.
The time is long overdue for Scotland to rise out of all the grime it has been struggling under from both Westminster AND Brussels.
Yes going down the Independence route may be unpalateable for some people but surely in the long term, once all the political parties currently with Westminster ties become wholly Scottish parties without any of these ties then Scotland can fully progress forward in its own right.
How much longer are we going to allow our great country be ruled/overruled by the self centered "jobs for the boys" in Brussels.
As pointed out elsewhere Germany, France and Italy regularily ignore Brussels, where are the politicians in this country with the slightest bit of backbone to stand up and fight for SCOTLAND!

72

livilion,

livingston 08/03/2007 14:24:40

60. Sedov

Thanks for the offer, but for many years I worked as a printer.

During that time I printed work and read the literature for the Labour Party, Thorpe's 'Gay' Libs, the SNP, SLP, SRSP(Tartan Army, remember them?).
In fact everyone barr the Tories.

Discovered the network of paramilitary organisations all over Europe and the Middle East at that time, in the days before calculators never mind the internet.
Had my phone tapped too!

The joke then was that if Jesus returned to earth he'd probably have most in common with the Scottish Republican Socialists.

I spoke to the candidates AND their election agents.
What an eye opener that was!

I studied Applied Physics and Electronics at Bell College, Electrical and Electronic Engineering at Stow College, where I was almost resident in the Mitchell library, and Electrical and Electronic Engineering at Dundee University where the Students' Association got Margaret Thatcher to U-turn on abolishing Student Grants, at the height of the Miners' Strike.

I've done work in the Houses of Commons and the Holyrood Parliament.

Missed the Dockland's Bomb in London by 24hours, to the extent that I'd used the same parking bay used by the IRA, outside the Franklin Mint, and knew the sandwich shop guy who was blown up by their truck bomb.

I worked on the Stranraer to Larne/Belfast ferries during the 'Troubles'.

I've lived and worked all over the UK and Europe and spoken with the natives.

My views, I've developed over 30-odd years for myself, I'm nearing 50.

I have not read newspapers for about 15years, after having read 'reports' of events I have diectly been involved in and struggling to recognise what was printed from what I'd witnessed.

If that has left me with a narrow mind, I reckon that's as wide as it's likely to get by now.

73

livilion,

livingston 08/03/2007 14:30:02

#67. Billy, Germany
Sorry billy I did not say that it did, but that Maggie believed that it did.

I agree, there was the imfamous case of the London Tory Council leader who tried to re-arrange the council boundaries to include property owners in order to safeguard Tory seats.
She was discovered and surcharged making her bankrupt.

74

decent one,

08/03/2007 14:36:08

If Scotland did the decent thing for ALL its' people, it would connect a large number of these islands to each other or to the mainland with tunnels, then there would be no need for such large subsidies. Subsidising ferries is short sighted and never ending. In some cases it's necessary but not in the majority.

75

Billy,

Germany 08/03/2007 14:38:43

#73 , jerry- mandering is the process you refer to, strangley enough the great labour politician Bevan once claimed he would jerrymander the tories out of existence.I don't know if labour came up with the tactic, but by god they knew how to put it into operation.

76

Erse,

Middle East 08/03/2007 14:44:04

#57 Billy! That was fantastic! You've even got realistic musical effects (Boom Boom).

Well done my friend. I see Scaramouche (Get well soon) has some serious competition.

77

Edward,

08/03/2007 14:46:04

Before anyone gets there knickers in a twist, they should consider the facts.
And the fact is it is not the EU's fault, this is a story being raked up by the unionist rag, Scotsman
It actually relates back to a story that the Scotsman conveniently forgot to report on, when it came out.
Scotland actually can opt out of competion for routes in rural comunities, basically because there in rural communities serviving the community.
The fault lies with London, as the Scottish Executive were sidelined in this descision
Suggest you all read the following :
http://www.theherald.co.uk/politics/news/display.var.1197...

78

livilion,

livingston 08/03/2007 14:46:09

#71. ScotsLass58
Unfortunately politicians are just that, politicians.

The political cycle lurches from one extreme to the other.

Total Independence, as per North Korea or Albania, is as unhelpful as Total Dependence.

As ever, the idea is to get the compromise that best suits your purpose and not get too sidetracked by party dogma.

The goes for parties as much as for the electorate.

The trick is to keep your politicians in view at all times where you can threaten to kick 'em out if they don't behave themselves.

To this end Edinburgh is a lot more satisfactory than London.

Brussels is the means by which we can develop our markets and economy by exposing them to the greatest number of 'friendly' consumers.

79

Edward,

08/03/2007 14:49:59

Apologies for several spelling mistakes at posting #77

80

Edward,

08/03/2007 14:52:48

If Scotland had been independent, just now, we would be dealing directly with the EU and we would have had an opt out for Calmac.
But as London interfered and sidtracked Scotland and the Scottish Executive, it appears this will cost us £ 15 million, I suppose thats what they mean by the union dividend
Come May election, suggest everyone helps to vote out the middle man that is London Labour

81

livilion,

livingston 08/03/2007 15:35:28

#65. George Mc

George, I left Scotland back in the days of Thatcher because I had no choice, work, divorce etc, I retrained and got on with it, but I never once blamed Scotland or the people of Scotland for my woes.

As soon as the Scottish Parliament re-convened I got home as soon as I could to be here when the country restored the rest of it's full Nationhood and was proud to do my wee bit on The Mound and in the fledgling Holyrood itself.

""...this country is in MELTDOWN. A BIG BROWN UGLY STICKY SMELLY MESS. Know the sad part? regardless of what happens in May, there's no hope on the horizon..""

""..The only thing thats keeping me in "The best wee mess in the world" is my kids..""

Oh, do you think so?!

Leave by all means, that is your right in any democracy, (don't let the door hit you on the a**e as you leave) but try slagging off Scotland and you can expect to hear about it.

You sound to me like Scotland's 'fairweather' friend, we've got an ample sufficiency of those already in Westminster thankyou very much, we don't need any more.

82

James UK,

UK 08/03/2007 15:38:06

I enjoy the comments but not the offensive language.
Under add your comments it says, don't swear, be offensive, etc.
Using the bad language diminishes the point being made. I now await the comments regarding my point.

83

James UK,

UK 08/03/2007 15:41:44

What evidence have you that Heath had a free berth in Cannes. In fact his yacht sank.

84

Sedov,

Scotland 08/03/2007 15:50:35

#72 Livilion, life begins at 50. I too have suffered at the hands of the state for my trade union activity. I cannot go into too much detail on the internet but what I do know in my dottage is that the present system stinks and has been on a downward track sice the mid 60's. Billions of people in the world are living on less than two dollars a day. We are in a period of capitalist decay expressed by universal turbulence and instability on a global scale. This month marks the 200th anniversary of the abolotion of slavery, yet for millions of people wage slavery is still with us.For me and my children and grandchildren, its Socialism or barbarism. Nationalism is a dead end and a myth and I feel for those desperate enough to put their faith in it. Hey, but cheer up, Castaway Island is back on the telly.

85

Billy,

Germany 08/03/2007 15:58:09

#76 Erse,
thanks for your comments, I have just ordered a black beret and cravat from amazon.

86

.,

08/03/2007 16:33:30

#11, Navvy is probably still with HBOS because he likes moaning. The online service I have from them allows you to put a payment date on online payments in the future, so I'm not entirely sure what he's on about. I think HOBS was possibly the zenith of his technological understanding and now he's a little lost and has restorted to pointless irrelevant rants on the Scotsman comments.

Again, the Scotsman in it's anti public sector agenda has conveniently neglected to explain that £11m of these "costs" are nothing of the sort.
If somebody can explain how money transferring from the Scottish Exec, via CalMac to the Treasury is a genuine cost to the government then on you go...
Circular money.

87

The laird.,

from leadhills. 08/03/2007 17:01:02

The fact is people get what they vote for,west of scotland,glasgow and looney lanarkshire,will all way,s vote for these numpties, as the saying goes If you put a labour sign on a pig in a trough they would vote for it, I suppose it was because they have become complacent and giro orintated, now that they think and perceive that they are unable to stand on there own two feet, There frightened that there giro will be stopped if they don,t support the unionist line, It,s sad that any political party is able to control a nation with lies and deception for there own political end,s.

88

livilion,

livingston 08/03/2007 17:05:36

84. Sedov
Slavery may well have been abolished 200 years ago, it still didn't prevent my grandfather from being sold as a farm labourer prior to WWI.

In those days they didn't even have the right to vote.

He ran away to the Navy, just in time to be a gunner on a light cruiser at the battle of Heligoland.
In all, he was sunk 5 times during that war.

During the 40's illness took his wife, leaving him to look after six kids on his navy invalid pension.

His sister in law survived into the 90's, and her 80's, and would tell her pals in the retirement home that she was going to visit her daughter in law who lived in a 'mansion' in East Kilbride.

She was describing my mother's ex-council house.

Nationalism is dead?
Try telling the Venezualans or John Mcdonnel that.

Ethnic nationalism, most right minded folks would not touch with a bargepole.

If being a socialist means going cap in hand for handouts and always being last in the queue then sorry, no sale.

But Civic nationalism is the other side of that coin.
It is inclusive not exclusive.
It is for everyone not just an elite.

It is about standing up together on your own feet and looking after yourself, rather than depending on the handouts from someone else's table.

It is about being responsible for your own destiny rather than bitching about everyone else but you being responsible for your situation.

It is the normal state of peoples throughout the world.

When you've discovered the secret of making everyone equal and none more equal than others;

So that none is worse off or being overworked because others are being fly or lazy.

So that physical impediments don't mean that some have a harder time than the rest and that mental ability doesn't give some an advantage over the rest.


Then tell me about your Socialist Utopia.

Frankly it sounds like the 'Born again' Christian telling me that the

89

Stewarty,

08/03/2007 17:41:43

Edward#77 - very good points.

Against the background you have exposed, who in the right minds would vote Labour or Lib Dem on 3 May 07?

90

livilion,

livingston 08/03/2007 17:55:24

#87. The laird

looney lanarkshire or the Lanarkshire Murphia as I've heard it described lately are simply being loyal to their 'team', and I don't mean Glasgow Celtic.
The sectarian side we don't want to go near.

He haw to do with politics, or giros, start talking politics and most will simply glaze over with boredom.

Labour has always 'been on the side of the working man' so he owed it his loyalty and support.

The local Labour Party candidate almost exclusively was sponsored by his trade union and his union dues went some of the way to getting him elected.

He'd stand up for your interests before the interests of the tories who were bought and paid for by the 'bosses', the enemy, who always wanted you to work harder for as little as they could get away with, and like as not, would throw you onto the street as soon as look at you.

In an 'us and them' situation you were morally obliged to stand united with your fellow workers and trades unionist brothers.

'United we stand, divided we fall'.

This was so for such a long time that voting became automatic, a mindset matter of solidarity and honour, potential Labour politicians were selected from the most effective shop stewards.

Today even though New Labour has ditched the unions, old habits die hard and it's difficult to accept that your old time friend and protector has run off with the bosses' daughter.

Even the 'Labour' leader today was born with a silver spoon in his mouth, attended an exclusive fee paying boarding school and attended Oxbridge.

In days gone by he'd just as likely have been the leader of the Tory party with these credentials, except that his blood may not have been blue enough, new money and all that.

But swap Bliar with Cameron and who'd know the difference?

91

Sambo,

The deep south 08/03/2007 20:24:23

#70 Angus, why don't you take up livilions offer and move to the mainland where transportation is free if you're 60?
Or could it be that you would never think about leaving.

92

BCDoogie,

BC 08/03/2007 20:51:07

#31 Canada has free ferries ? Not on hte west coast www.bcferries.com

93

Voldemort,

Edinburgh 08/03/2007 22:13:42

So you guys in the SNP still up for independence in Europe ?

£15 Million and counting; that is just the snowflake on the tip of the iceberg that is europe ...

94

Highlander (Ruaridh Ormiston),

Arisaig 08/03/2007 23:14:30

So why was it so important to move the "crewing" offshore to avoid National Insurance ???
Majority of Calmac crew live work and retire in Scotland so surley not paying NI jst affects their State Pensions for the worse so what is the point.
As Calmac efectively is the government they could still pay NI and the governemnt could just give the money back in subs anyway and crew members do not miss out by working for a dodgy "offshore" company.
I am very suspicious.

95

The Wizard,

OZ 08/03/2007 23:40:13

When I hear of all the crap that comes out of the EU I often wonder who won the war.

96

The Wizard,

OZ 08/03/2007 23:59:25

All this extra expense probably means an increase in the price of a Calmac cold greasy curry or wishy washy coffee.
I'll use my executive jet from now on.

97

Faye,

Scotland 09/03/2007 00:00:14

#4 Navvy. To clarify, I meant the phoneline banking at BOS is still good. No experience of the online banking.

The Halifax merger has ruined many of the great services once offered by the Bank of Scotland.
Now HBOS. All these D/ numbers are cumbersome. My BOS account nos are firmly committed to memory, if that goes then so do I.

Big isn't beautiful. Navvy but I know 'my stuff 'so your comment is a tad harsh.

#8 Perkins, Loch Lomond. I agree totally.

98

Joe McParland,

Fife 09/03/2007 00:30:20

We as Scots should vote these idiots out and tell the EU to p**s off

99

livilion,

livingston 09/03/2007 00:41:58

#98. Joe
Before we get too excited about who did or didn't do what, perhaps The Herald can throw some more light on an issue that the Scotsman has chosen not to report here.
http://www.theherald.co.uk/politics/news/display.var.1197...

100

livilion,

livingston 09/03/2007 00:42:18

Hunner up?!!

101

livilion,

livingston 09/03/2007 00:52:25

That is, once again our Scotland Office and Executive parliamentarians have been sidelined on an issue of great Scottish importance but which Whitehall simply doesn't rate.

Once again the lack of an effective Scottish voice in international affairs has cost us dearly.

Such as is the case with Fergusons on the Lower Clyde, which ironically as a result may soon no longer be in a position to tender to replace these boats, as has already happened on the Upper Clyde.

102

Edward,

09/03/2007 01:18:18

#98 Joe McParland
#95 The Wizard
Just in case you numpties havent twigged yet, suggest you read the article that was in the Herald
http://www.theherald.co.uk/politics/news/display.var.1197...
The Scottish Executive has been sidelined by Whitehall bureaucrats in a bid to have a controversial and costly tendering process for lifeline ferry services scrapped.Now there are calls for the exact role played by Whitehall in the "fiasco" of the tendering of Caledonian MacBrayne's ferry routes to be disclosed to the Scottish Parliament
The UK Department for Transport (DfT) has made clear it - and not the Scottish Executive - is in overall charge of the issue of CalMac tendering, when it comes to the all-important dialogue with the European Commission
This was reported on February 16th
So instead of getting excited and blaming the EU, you should really be turning your attention on the Labour Government in London and how they sidelined the Scottish Executive and Scottish interests and as a result its LONDON thats costing Scotland £ 15 million!
Try and remember that fact when voting in May
The fault is entirely in the grubby hands of Labour in London. The quicker gets rid of Labour and goes for independence the better, at least as an independent state, it wont have to ask permission from London on everything

103

The Wizard,

OZ 09/03/2007 01:27:28

102

And who controls the Whitehall numpties, Numptie?

The EU, that's who.

104

livilion,

livingston 09/03/2007 01:44:58

#103
The Herald has learned that, ever since it received a letter from the European Commission in 2005 warning against any further delay, the DfT has been determined that CalMac routes should be tendered as soon as possible to justify to Europe the company's subsidy.

!!!***In fact, Whitehall has never been prepared to go to the European Commission and argue the case for exempting CalMac's routes from tendering. ***!!!

This has led to immense frustration among Scottish ministers, who have long held that a special case could easily be made for Scotland's island communities.



The Department for Transport has refused to support the executive's argument that a special case could be made to Europe in respect of island communities.

105

,

09/03/2007 01:49:59
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason: Scotsman Import, Original comment id: 429067, Article id was mapped to record!
106

Jack Mack,

San Francisco, CA 09/03/2007 08:12:37

Ferries - San Francisco Bay Ferries are given a subsidy of about 33% (about $2.50) of the cost of transporting a commuter across the Bay, one way for less than 30 minutes. The Golden Gate Bridge Toll is $5.00 round trip) The subsidy is paid by Bridge Fees, and from tax revenue from State, local and federal sources. The ferry companies are regulated by the State Public Utilites Commission who regulate the fares. Fares to the Western Isles should, if they are not already regulated should be set by a Scottish Governmental Agency that allows a reasonable rate of return to the operator and a reasonable fare to the public. At least our bridge is in good repair.

107

livilion,

livingston 09/03/2007 08:41:53

Does this affair, and that of Fergusons, not smack of incompetence from Labour in protecting our interests, and jobs?

Or, more sinister, an attempt to demonstrate to Scots that we are unable to look after themselves when playing with 'big European bullies'.

When the tears start to flow then Mother Westminster will 'see'em off' for us, there, there, there?

Or was I right the first time, Whitehall really doesn't give a monkey's about us?

108

Bob Incognito,

09/03/2007 08:51:55

And this is the same Europe that won't allow Scotland entry to the EU if it ever splits from England? Prehaps Scotland should start ignoring European legislation and see what they do-my prediction, absolutely nothing. They could even try going to negotiating sessions with them wearing t-shirts with the word "AND" on them.
I'll have to put the SNP on my donation list from now on.

109

Edward,

09/03/2007 10:34:47

#108 Bob Incognito
Perhaps you should read the article in the Herald
http://www.theherald.co.uk/politics/news/display.var.1197...
Then you will understand that this has more to do with the Labour government in London sidelining the Scottish Executive and not presenting the correct information to the EU.
This has nothing to do with EU legislation, for its the same EU legislation that would have allowed Scotland not to bother having the tendering process.
The Scottish Executive wer not even allowed by London to attend EU meetings concerning this. The stupid thing is that idiot Tavish Scott, knows all about this, but is having his strings pulled by Douglas Alexander and the Dept of Transport in London. These are the real facts and not something stirred up by the Scotsman puting the blame on the EU and helping out there unionist chums.
If anything this whole episode concerning Londons involvement in all this, surely advocates, Scotland becoming independent and being part of the EU, for being Independent, Scotland would not be sidelined and would have been able to put a water tight case to the Eu, supported by the EU's own legislation for not having the tendering process.
The actions by London and the effective sidelining by London of the Scottish Executive has cost Sotland £ 15 million, thats the fact that the Scotsman have omitted to state!

110

livilion,

livingston 09/03/2007 11:30:32

What I don't get is that even after all this damning evidence is presented to them, there are still folks in Scotland with their fingers in their ears chanting
'la, la, la, la, I can't hear you, I can't hear you!'

111

Stewarty,

09/03/2007 11:52:02

Edward # 109
You mention Tavish Scott. The galling thing is that this numptie despite knowing that Whitehall were calling the shots on this, paid at least 2 visits to Brussels, as did his predecessor and fellow numptie, Nicol Stephen.

Both met Jacques Barrot, EU Transport Commissioner and convicted embezzler who was called to account for offences in 1999, only for his pal Chirac to grant him an absolute pardon - this is the sort of thing which happens in France apparently.

It is astonishing that Stephen and, later, Scott, allowed themselves to be befuddled by a convicted criminal, and then come back to Holyrood, saying that they could not do anything more, when, in fact, their visits were entirely cosmetic against the background where Whitehall was in charge.

This strengthens not only the case for independence, but also independence OUTSIDE Europe - and if the SNP does not wake up to this reality, it is likely that the prospect of independence will recede.

112

livilion,

livingston 09/03/2007 12:13:47

#111. Stewarty
Independence outside Europe?
You mean keeping our principle export market as England with 2/3rds of everything we make being sold there?

Aye right!

The reason Europe is doing us in Scotland no favours is because Wendy's wee brother, Union Joke, Tavish and Nicol's puppet masters in Whitehall don't rate us worth a mention.

We can hardly blame the EU for that.

If you don't ask, you don't get

How we do it in the UK
http://business.scotsman.com/technology.cfm?id=344592007

How the French do it
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chantiers_de_l%27Atlantique

How the Germans do it
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meyer_Werft

How the Italians do it
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fincantieri

Labour (and the Fib-dems)isn't working!

113

Edward,

09/03/2007 12:26:55

#111 Stewarty
To be honest Im not sure why Tavish Scott or Nicol Stephen went to Brussels as they clearly havent a clue about EU legislation! . It doesnt help that both support the unionist agenda and Tavish Scott will do what ever Douglas Alexander will tell him.
Can only imagine that the people in Brussels were amused at meeting politicians that were clearly out there depth or breifed incorrectly.
Tavish Scott should have been presenting the case to have the requirement for tendering waived (which is part of the EU dictum regarding rural transport), but as he was sidelined by Douglas Alexander, clearly hadnt a clue what was going on.
I heartely agree that the whole situation regarding London sidelining the executive is a very strong case for independence. As I mentioned breviously, with an independent Scotland, they dont have to get permission from London to deal direct with the the EU, Scotland would be dealing directly and getting it right by understanding the legislation in the EU instead of having it via London.
You should also appreciate that the Scotsman has a pro unionist agenda, which will not state the truth regarding Londons role in this affair

114

Edward,

09/03/2007 12:40:54

#111
In case you missed the point in the Herald :
'The Herald revealed last month that the Scottish Executive's top European official has warned ministers that Scotland's interests are being routinely forgotten, ignored and dismissed by Whitehall officials when they seek to influence policy and law-making in Brussels.'
'the Dept of Transport in London has been determined that CalMac routes should be tendered as soon as possible to justify to Europe the company's subsidy.'
'In fact, Whitehall has never been prepared to go to the European Commission and argue the case for exempting CalMac's routes from tendering. This has led to immense frustration among Scottish ministers, who have long held that a special case could easily be made for Scotland's island communities.'
'The Dept of Transport in London has refused to support the executive's argument that a special case could be made to Europe in respect of island communities'
'considerable amounts of public money being spent on what is now effectively a paper exercise, there is frustration among Scottish ministers at Whitehall's attitude. However, in public they criticise Europe.'
' When The Herald this week (16/02) asked the UK Dept of Transport in London what representations it had made on the issue of CalMac to the European Commission, an official underlined the primacy of the department.
He said: "No specific representations', as you describe them. We have been fully engaged in discussions, involving also the European Commission and the Scottish Executive, on the tendering of the CalMac ferry services - and the need to comply with EU state aid requirements - on the basis that, while the operational and policy issues are a matter for the Scottish Executive, it is the UK as the EU member state that is ultimately responsible for seeing that EU obligations are met."'

As you can see it beggers belief that London can dictate the agenda on a devolved subject, in


 

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