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Everyone should pipe down about marches

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Published Date: 10 June 2008
AS someone who was born and baptised a Catholic, and who has even been known to tread the boards as an altar boy, the prospect of an Orange March is something that fills me with no particular feeling whatsoever.
As you may know, the Orange Order is appealing a ban on their marching through the centre of Penicuik. That is to say, they have been permitted to march through Penicuik in the morning, but a demand for an afternoon march has been declined. Penicuik
obviously feels that you can have too much of a good thing, or that if they let the Orange Order have two marches then it's only a matter of time before Hare Krishnas, Fathers 4 Justice and Bay City Roller revivalists are demanding two marches too.

Marches are obviously very important to the Orange Order. Indeed it seems to be their defining characteristic – all you hear about are Orange Marches, never Orange Jumble Sales, Orange Jamborees or Orange Waltzes. So it's perhaps not surprising that – given the opportunity – they like to do them twice. Perhaps the first one is a kind of rehearsal – after all, not everyone is in the mood for sowing full-on religious malcontent first thing in the morning.

Or is it perhaps that – like many bored teenagers – they find that there's nothing really to do and having gone to all the trouble of getting dressed up like male cheerleaders with beer bellies they want to get as much out of the day as possible.

No doubt if most of the participants weren't so old they'd have put in for an evening march as well. Perhaps they could even establish a permanent march – going from town to town around Scotland.

In such a way they could turn what some call nothing more than a celebration of deep-seated hatred and animosity into a world-famous perpetual carnival; it's a competitive tourist world out there so we could do with all the help we can get.

Something we should be clear on is that there is no real cultural reason to stop them marching. Granted, a lot of what they believe in or wish to celebrate seems a bit odd to outsiders. There was apparently a battle some time ago in a nearby country. This clearly means a lot to the Orange Order – less so to others.

But why should everyone else get excited when they want to form vaguely straight lines and march up and down in celebration of whatever this battle thing was? There are plenty of cultural celebrations the length and breadth of the land whose meaning is unclear to many of us.

Like it or not, no-one could deny that Protestantism is a vital part of Scotland's heritage and that the Orange Order is a significant part of that. And here's the kicker. All of the arguments we apply to free speech and the right of assembly – two of the most fundamental aspects of what we commonly feel to be our democratic tradition – also apply to idiots. That's right – regardless what you think of some group's beliefs or motives or traditions or history – everyone in this country is entitled to the same degree of social and legal tolerance. And at least the flutes and drums – when played correctly – sound rather nice. But if they are serious about retaining their entertainment power in the 21st century, perhaps the Orange Order could consider including Air Guitar in their marching repertoire.

Vanity unfair
You go to all the trouble of seeking public office, campaigning endlessly to boost your political career, and then once in the job some no-good local newspaper insists on using photographs of you that in some way illustrate whatever predicament you are dealing with at the time. The fact that Edinburgh Council has gone to the trouble of paying a photographer to take flattering photographs of their senior people and ask newspapers to use these snaps rather than pesky true-life ones says too much about priorities. Perhaps we could find some photos of them looking aghast and/or horrified at how they are being presented in the press.

Booty it out
It can be amusing trying to see how few words are needed before coming to the conclusion "NO" when one hears of a proposed event. Try this: "Booty Bay" – marathon rave session on Silverknowes waterfront, with alcohol licence". If Silverknowes was in France, that might be different. But it is in Scotland, and that brings an entirely different and regrettable colour to the proposed affair.





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  • Last Updated: 10 June 2008 9:41 AM
  • Source: Edinburgh Evening News
  • Location: Edinburgh
  • Related Topics: Brian Hennigan
 
1

an interested party,

10/06/2008 11:06:41
all you hear about are Orange Marches, never Orange Jumble Sales, Orange Jamborees or Orange Waltzes.

pmsl

good article

2

,

10/06/2008 11:13:22
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3

,

10/06/2008 11:14:02
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4

Listening,

10/06/2008 11:26:09
Sectarian marches should all be banned. They create tension and often result in fights etc..

What about the majority that don't want them to happen, should they be ignored?

5

Neal! Whit? Haud yer Whisht!!,

10/06/2008 11:27:03
The whole Catholic / Protestant thing is So anachronistic. As a non-christian I can see that they are both batting for the same side - why all the antagonism?
6

,

10/06/2008 11:28:50
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7

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10/06/2008 11:30:05
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8

Geoff,

sa 10/06/2008 11:31:10
An interesting article that touches on a really difficult subject-what are or should be the limits to free speech and right of assembly? I was born a Scots-Irish Presbytarian and have family members who belong to the Orange Order. I freely admit that the 12th of July to which I was exposed at a very early age,moulded my British identity. I have however never felt any animosity whatsoever toward Roman catholics. My wife is half RC and half Jewish and I have RC relatives through marriage. The Orange Order need to radically update their philosophy. There is nothing wrong in celebrating one's culture and religion-Roman Catholics have exclusively RC organisations as well, but in this day and age there is absolutely no place for or need to propogate anti Catholicism.
9

Lesley,

EDINBURGH 10/06/2008 11:32:49
Number 6 - Agree completely! These marches serve to provide nothing but an opportunity for Lodge Members to display their bigotry and ignorance for all to see, and they should not be allowed to disrupt normal folks' Saturday afternoon shopping!
10

Geoff,

sa 10/06/2008 11:40:31
As to whether to permit the marches or not the above post aside,the Orange order should be treated the same as any other organisation seeking permission to march-CND,Boys Brigade,Greens,BNP,Siol na Gaidheal etc.

7Neal Whit-absolutely anachronistic indeed. But you must remember in Ireland in particular the divide parralelled an almost(not quite) complete mirror image of the Unionist-Nationalist divide and it is this political divide more than any real religious fervour that fuels these organisations.
11

Geoff,

10/06/2008 11:44:33
2 An interested Party-true but then Orange charity events dont arouse the same passion as the Marches. Can you imagine the headline "Buns thrown at Orange Lodge cake sale!"
12

Jock Politicaljunkie,

Glasgow 10/06/2008 12:04:33
#1, The Genuine Mario Antionette,

I think you have hit the nail on the head. There IS NO FUN in an Orange Order March - so why do it when the "freedoms" are from a bygone era hundreds of years ago? Is it the case that once a bigot always a bigot?

As a Democrat and supporter of Free Speach I MUST support the right of the Orange Order to march. However, even though I'm both a Jock and a Prod (CofS), I do not have to like them or their bigotted views. I think the decision taken to allow the morning march BUT NOT the afternoon march in Penicuik is both entirely fair and sensible. They will have their march but will not be allowed to disrupt the town TWICE with their minority views in an alcohol fuelled afternoon rerun.

We can but hope that before too long such bigotted organisations will wither and die. Independence should help by removing the political overtones from our immediate lives.
13

Sedov,

Scotland 10/06/2008 12:05:45
#2 - your forgetting the new orange order - the Dutch football team and its brilliant supporters. PS -down with sectaranism of all kinds!
14

Geoff,

sa 10/06/2008 12:07:10
14 Jock-sadly,independence or not,bigoted organisations are a world wide reality
15

AbandonAllHope,

10/06/2008 12:10:46
It is old but it is beautiful, and its colours they are fine
It was worn at Derry, Aughrim, Enniskillen and the Boyne.
My father wore it as a youth in bygone days of yore,
And on the Twelfth I love to wear the sash my father wore.
16

Geoff,

sa 10/06/2008 12:18:09
17 Abandon all hope
When Treason was Rampant and Traitors were strong
The law was defied by a vile rebel throng
When thousands were bandied the The Throne to Cast down
The Protestants rallied and stood by the Crown!!

stirring stuff :)
17

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10/06/2008 12:23:10
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18

Geoff,

sa 10/06/2008 12:23:16
Sedov-xactly! What a great win! Theres a way to celebrate Orange without the bigotry!
19

David Harrington,

Edinburgh 10/06/2008 12:27:09
The only point of these marches is to stir up religious hatred - in that respect they serve no useful purpose to anyone. Whether they should be banned is a matter of law, though and I suspect they are sailing very close to the wind.
20

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10/06/2008 12:27:14
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21

Geoff,

sa 10/06/2008 12:27:42
19 Singapore Sling-I genuinely dont understand your post? What are u saying?
22

Geoff,

sa 10/06/2008 12:29:39
23 I love to eat S-what about an Apple March?
23

steve 1511,

aberdeen 10/06/2008 12:31:48
we need to ban cars from parking at or near religious buildings, when the services finish and they come out the cause mini disruptions after every service.at least the orange order are considerate and get it all over on one day
24

Jock Politicaljunkie,

Glasgow 10/06/2008 12:33:11
#16, Geoff,

I'm an optimist (not the wee boat!)

Independence has to be a start at least. One of the realities of being in a smaller National grouping will be the throwing together of disparate groups to work together for the good of their community or Country.

Oh, and I would ban all religiously divided schools too. Children do not have or hold hate for each other - they are taught that from adults - by no longer teaching this hate or promoting any "difference" - that hate can hopefully be phased out over a couple of generations.

I am tolerant (on a good day) of the bigotted views of many of my older fellow countrymen given that they were brought up with these views. (Their silly marches do embarrass the hell out of me though). Fewer and fewer people hold these views today but the decline is depressingly slow. YOUNGER people that I know look on in bewilderment at the antics of the likes of the Orange Order. They just don't get it - and I am SO HAPPY that they don't.
25

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10/06/2008 12:34:57
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26

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10/06/2008 12:36:26
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27

Jock Politicaljunkie,

Glasgow 10/06/2008 12:38:30
#29, 107-in-a-row,

Great idea! Children do not hate children unless taught how to by adults.
28

Ima Stoner,

HIGH street, edinburgh 10/06/2008 12:44:35
Why don't they just go and march in the West of Scotland where the majority of them come from - if they feel the need to do it - or find a park somewhere where they're not bothering other people, like the Jack Kane centre or something. I wonder how they'd react if the Catholics decided to do the same and marched through West Lothian & Glasgow with placards of the Pope etc!
29

Geoff,

sa 10/06/2008 12:45:43
27 Political Junkie-I am a unionist but we share the same views on ending bigotry. I would like to see a new Unionism where Religion plays no part. For me-I was exposed to the whole marching thing at an extraordinarily early age and education and intellect notwithstanding,those influences remain indelible! Flags and uniforms and martial music-ingredients in all wars!! Here in sa we also have faith based schools-Roman Catholic and Muslim in particular altho demographic realities are forcing open their doors to other religions. Whatever the future holds for Scotland let us hope it is a better and more enlightened one!
Incidentally my lapse into Orange song above-its a culture thing-I can Sing God save Ireland as well! :)
30

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10/06/2008 12:48:43
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31

Jenny MacArthur,

10/06/2008 12:50:53
Ban the bigots. We shouldn't let our streets be used for these hate-parades.
32

Busymale,

10/06/2008 12:51:52
I think Orange marches are brilliant! Look at it this way:

1) They advertise to the world their own ignorance by merely taking part - "hey look at me I'm a neanderthal bigot!"
2) With each batter of the drum it symbolises "hate" and people with an IQ can look at them with sympathy.
3) Their excellent cringe value!
4) We all go home having a laugh at how sad and shallow their lifes are.

Pity them, for they know not what they do.
33

Liz,

Edinburgh 10/06/2008 12:58:34
Scotland needs to grow up and enter the real world.

All this sectarian nonsense belongs in the past, these marches (for whichever side of the divide) are an archaic throwback to a time that no longer exists and they can only serve to fuel further resentment on both sides.
34

Jock Politicaljunkie,

Glasgow 10/06/2008 13:01:10
#32, Geoff,

Unfortunately I think Unionism and Religion are inextricably linked. Sad but true. Time may heal - but it hasn't in over 300 years so far.

I have many other reasons for supporting Scottish Independence - but this one IS a biggy.
35

Tellen1,

10/06/2008 13:03:11
These orange marches are similar to those parades of old cars from the 1930's that you sometimes get.

They are both from a bygone era and have no relevance to the 21st Century, and they both cause disruption to ordinary pedestrians and motorists by blocking the roads.

The only difference is that its nice to see parades of old cars occasionally, whereas its not nice to see parades of drunken, bigoted old men.
36

Bien E. Bien,

10/06/2008 13:17:25
I don't understand the attraction of these sort of marches.

My only grievance with them is one of logistics - I couldn't get my car out of my driveway once because the police had shut down the street to make way for a gay pride march. Could these sort of marches not at least be combined, in a sort of Rio Carnival style, where everyone goes on floats and gets it all over with at once?

Still, if people want to partake, then good luck to them.
37

Geoff,

sa 10/06/2008 13:18:34
37 Jock- Some of my best friends are ScotsNats! I disagree that Unionism and Religion are inextricably linked-John Reid for example(!) but I understand what you are saying-the more visible face of Unionism in Scotland tends to be Rangers fans and the LoL! I am a secular Unionist who believes in the Union for many reasons but certainly religion is not one of them.
38

Davie08,

Edinburgh 10/06/2008 13:27:18
The only attitude to take with both sides is one of outraged contemptous neutrality.
# 28 The James Connolly lot stopped marching last year a reciprical gesture from the other crowd would be appreciated in Edinburgh but I fear that for some in the hinterland it is the only time in the year they get to ride in bus and visit the big city.
39

GrahamH,

Edinburgh 10/06/2008 13:27:45
Until we have single faith shools these marches will continue.

Both single faith schools and marches belong in the past, our politicians almost without exception would want to ban both, just lack the bottle.
40

Horrible Cankers at the Cyber Shebeen,

10/06/2008 13:32:00
I've seen this scum kick innocent children who happen to cross the road during the march...even when there has been a large gap in the marchers....they are a bunch of mouldy soap dodgers and on the whole are not very intelligent people...lets face it...they are neds that like to get drunk, make a lot of noise about nothing and shout abuse at who they perceive to be Catholic....

Why do we allow these neds to commit a breach of the peace?
41

alex patersons English teacher,

10/06/2008 13:35:24
42.
ill raise a shooner of beer too that, or may be shnapps.
42

Xena - Warrior Princess,

10/06/2008 13:37:21
Bigotry should not be given a helping hand by allowing these marches. Thankfully I was brought up in Edinburgh which luckily does not have the bigotry of the West of Scotland. I have both Catholic and Protestant (Dad a catholic, mum a protestant) family members. I actually saw a grown man pretend to vomit in his hands when he saw a young boy in a Rangers strip, how we will ever get rid of his kind is beyond me.
43

A Friend of Fernando Poo,

10/06/2008 13:39:34
"...having gone to all the trouble of getting dressed up like male cheerleaders with beer bellies they want to get as much out of the day as possible."

Perhaps they could do Morris Dancing instead?
44

KampungHighlander,

Jakarta 10/06/2008 13:39:48
A lot of people are commemting about religious based schools.

My eldest daughter attended an all girls Catholic School in Glasgow. They did not discriminate against us because my wife is Protestant and I am an athiest.

It fact the largest religious group besides catholic amongst the students was Muslim girls.(about 20% of the students.)

I think their parents where attracted by the same reasons our family chose this school. A good quality education without the distraction of boys.

I think a lot of the ranting about religious schools is just the ill informed venting their sectarian spleen. They fail to realize that the only religious education is the same Comparative Religion course taught in all other state schools.
45

Lochinvar,

Edinburgh 10/06/2008 13:48:45
Aye. Fathers for Justice going about dressed as Super Heroes. Perhaps if they'd been Super Heroes in the bedroom their wives wouldny have got shot of them!
46

Geoff,

sa 10/06/2008 13:50:49
42 GrahamH-bannings are not the answer. One of the most difficult aspects of trying,laudably, to create a democratic society,is that we must practice and preach tolerance-even tolerating those organisations and opinions that we find offensive. At the fringes there are certain behaviours that we all know to be unacceptable-child pornography,crude racial abuse etc.. The big problem for Democrats is to know where lines should be drawn. If you allow people to ban others then how do you regulate the censors? There is always the danger of creeping authoritarianism.
47

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10/06/2008 14:01:16
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48

john z,

edinburgh 10/06/2008 14:04:21
The ornage lodge in Scotland is harmless. Yes, I might not agree with what they believe, but they do no harm.

Having grown up in Scotland, I quite like the flute bands, liked them when I was a kid too.

People will make political capital out of anything.

As regards religious schools, the reason they 'appear' to produce better results is they are selective. 'Undesirables' dinnae get in. I think they shouldn't brain wash kids with any religious bigotry, just teach them facts instead of superstitious beliefs.
49

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10/06/2008 14:16:00
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50

ChristineGrahameforPope,

Edinburgh 10/06/2008 14:20:18
I thoroughly enjoyed watching the Orange march through Edinburgh the other Saturday. I'm not a Protestant, but I like to see people celebrating their own traditions freely. What use is a right of assembly unless you exercise it?

They also looked as if they'd made an effort to look smart, unlike the SWP-type marchers who wander around now and again. Could it be that Orangophobia exists among the Liberati because Lodge members tend to be working class and really rather common?
51

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10/06/2008 14:26:37
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52

Allan(handofgod137),

10/06/2008 14:43:57
#56 Got a life thanks, you tattie munchers need to get a sense of humour, and just accept the fact that your catholic king was pwnd by the house of orange.
53

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10/06/2008 15:12:06
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54

Banana Heid,

Ayrshire 10/06/2008 15:12:38
Here's how to make it fun. See how many local labour councillors you spot in bowler hats during the match. I'm sure there will be lots.
55

Horrible Cankers at the Cyber Shebeen,

10/06/2008 16:06:16
53...I'm common working class mate...through and through...and I can tell you these hauf wits and their groupies hivnae seen the inside o'a church since they wir marched there in primary school...."cause no harm?"...geezpeace...try living in the north or east end of Glasgow during and after a march...the polis cannae arrest them fir fear o' riot when they are shouting "f*ck the pope!"....their drunken monkey hangers on would make you cringe....strewth what a sight....it aint a question of them being "common"...more... aggressive eejits that look to incite trouble.....
56

gorgeousgorgieboy,

Edinburgh 10/06/2008 16:20:33
You know, underneath the outward appearance - suits, sashes, bowler hats etc Iam quite sure that there are sensitive law abiding reasonable people.

E.g. - SPL referees.
57

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10/06/2008 16:26:12
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58

Ima Stoner,

HIGH street, Edinburgh 10/06/2008 16:30:49
Billy Connolly was in a film about this years ago called "Just another Saturday", good film, and similar scenes as #62 described.
59

Neal! Whit? Haud yer Whisht!!,

10/06/2008 16:39:31
I suppose, as an outsider on these matters, that making schools Non-Religious would go a long way towards breaking this cycle of 'progamming' by parents/ adults of children.

That Religious Indoctrination still takes place is beyond comprehension. The Church is dying - let it die in peace.

Orange-men, you're out of date - time to go!
60

Joanna,

Cambs, England 10/06/2008 16:42:41
H Cankers @ 62

Well said!

Btw: Any sign of our friend from Fife lately? Haven't seen him about for ages.
61

tomias,

Edinburgh 10/06/2008 16:56:00
67 posts; mention this subject and see the level of interest; so this subject is far from dead nad buried; now tag this lot onto that other abomination- heart v Hibs etc- 67 posts? No 167 more likely.
62

leonidasofsparta,

rancho mirage 10/06/2008 17:15:33
No company of mine will ever invest in Scotland while racist, bigoted orangemen parade the streets in martial triumph.That modern Scots, still don't understand, the message sent by these fanatics is seen now around the world and has highly negative impact on how others see you, has me wondering what else you do not understand about the modern era .
63

Warden An' All, Reborn,

10/06/2008 17:17:45
The best way to tackle these orange events is to create large and popular events away from the routes, so this way most people bored enough to turn up for the marches have a better excuse to do something else.
64

dude,

Wishaw 10/06/2008 17:35:51
Seems to me and this goes with experience from where i live the biggest majority of bigots are on the orange order side of the so called devide, this situation has been the same for years and until they move on and change their outlook on their fellow scots it wont go away.

Why do they want to ban RC schools, are they jealous of the education it gives people, also the schools dont preach hatred no matter what these people would like to think, thats a preserve of the bigotted parents on both sides of it and again mostly by the orange ones, maybe its just there are more of them but they are the one who are mostly heard.

Go live in Ireland and see the changes over their or better still move to your beloved England.

;)
65

Warden An' All, Reborn,

10/06/2008 17:38:00
69/leonidasofsparta- “That modern Scots, still don't understand, the message sent by these fanatics is seen now around the world and has highly negative impact on how others see you, has me wondering what else you do not understand about the modern era .”
leonidasofsparta, most Scots do understand the negative impact of these marches and do not take part, but there are still those who wrongly equate these events with the original fight for our religious freedom, when in fact religious freedom is the last thing to enter these marchers minds.
As for Scots not understanding about the modern era, that would be just on the unusual side considering it was the Scottish Enlightenment which created the consepts we equate with modernity.



66

Joanna,

Cambs, England 10/06/2008 18:09:46
dude,Wishaw 10/06/2008 17:35:51
"Go live in Ireland and see the changes over their or better still move to your beloved England."


Whereabouts in England do you suggest? I haven't noticed any Orange marches taking place round these parts nowadays or ever. I think you're a bit out of step yourself there.
67

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10/06/2008 18:18:16
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68

leonidasofsparta,

rancho mirage 10/06/2008 18:36:32
What you say was true in the late 18th and early 19th century, but we live in the 21st and it is a very long time since Scotland was the leading light. No from reading the leading scottish papers and their comments sections i would say many of you indeed do not understand the times we live in, or atleast have not yet fully engaged with them. i.e. tolerate catholics, muslems and the english etc. To the lady in England. these orange men wave the union jack and support the queen so are considered anglophillic, thus the demand they move to your side of the nonborder which separates these two anachronismic nations. No! scotland still has a way to go, but Good Luck anyway.
69

dude,

Wishaw 10/06/2008 18:44:27
#73
thats the nature and mindset of these people, they see England as their country ie. Britan over their own country of Scotland, sad but true.
70

Richardinho,

10/06/2008 18:47:07
It makes me sad to see so many people willing to exress their betrayal of their own country so openly.
I thought the ideal of protestantism was of throwing off the rule of foreigners and of foreign religion. So why do these people pledge 'loyalty' to a foreigner and the head of a separate religion at that!

The answer is simple, by and large they come from the lowest and least educated parts of society. They are the dregs of our society, the absolute scum.
71

Brian M,

Edinburgh 10/06/2008 18:49:16
are they not supposed to be celebrating the anniversary of a battle which was fought in Ireland hundreds of years ago? If so they should be over there, not in Scotland that's for sure
72

Conan the Librarian™,

10/06/2008 18:54:03
65
Ima, there ye go.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=usccACkIxxs
73

wolfette,

Edinburgh 10/06/2008 18:59:23
was the placing of the advertising deliberate? Orange Mobiles?

74

,

10/06/2008 19:09:10
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75

erchie,

doonbye.the highlands 10/06/2008 19:14:16
try the march o the lonach highlanders.That really gets the raw scots blood coursing through the veins
76

indune1,

Canada 10/06/2008 19:36:14

A few years ago I happened to be in the village of Lanark, Ontario on the occasion of the Orange Walk. Being born of a Scottish father (Prod) and Anglo-Irish mother (Catholic) I was well aware of the "troubles".

I was intrigued- after the march - by a stand manned by members of the "blue-rise set". In answer to my question that thier "order" seemed to be out of step with the times, the dears assured me that the "Order" was not what it used to be and it was more of a social club these days.

I moved on after thanking them for their unconvincing answer. Not more than 10 yards behind their booth was another at which T-shirts could be bought that proudly bore the statement:

"One Queen. One Crown. No Pope in this town!"

The true wonder of it all is the marchers are clueless as to how silly and stupid they appear ( many people- oblivious of the Orange Order - understandably think the whole thing is a comedic farce).



77

Horrible Cankers at the Cyber Shebeen,

10/06/2008 20:08:11
67...Awrite Joanna...think ma other hauf...the Hunkers fella that is...is oan 'es hols wae the missus an the sprogs....'e tends tae comment only oan the sport stuff these days....poor soul...auld Corbett wis moderated far too many times fir 'es fragile artistic sensibilities....chroist did ah spell that right ahm a bit p!shed?.....anyroad how you doin doll...you've bin a bit o' a stranger yersell eh?....
78

dottyviveca,

10/06/2008 20:12:45
'Like it or not, no-one could deny that Protestantism is a vital part of Scotland's heritage and that the Orange Order is a significant part of that.'

Nope not all that significant actually. Maybe for followers of the Govan & Gorgie Gorgons, but not for Scottish Protestants.
79

Joanna,

10/06/2008 20:38:49
Hi Horrible C @ 84 :)

Not doing too bad, you know how real life can get in the way of time spent dallying about on here though - had to have a little break for a while!

If you bump into auld Corbie Hunckers - just remind him that we still meet at the old place occasionally - maybe he'll give you the address :)


McMadman @ 74

You're right about Liverpool at one time and also Manchester, no coincidence that they were both cities which had many Irish immigrants. I don't think they have marches there anymore but I think of the major cities in England they are probably the most likely to.
80

Horrible Cankers at the Cyber Shebeen,

10/06/2008 20:49:59
86...Will do Joanna...will do..
81

Jock H. the Republic of Scotland,

Arvada, Colorado, USA. 10/06/2008 21:20:18
Its funny when i saw an Orange Walk i really thought i was watching a live performance of the Monty Python show from television, do these anti/catholic knuckle draggers ever see themselves on film, how very sad for Scotland, wake up guys and get with the times........
82

tumshie heid,

10/06/2008 21:32:07
Let them march but not in areas where it is obvious they are trying to be inflammatory.Perhaps if we could laugh at these sad individuals who are intent on living in the past then things would improve?
I am amazed that in the 21st century people still believe in religion whether protestant or otherwise.
What a load of nonsense!
83

Soosider,

Glasgow 10/06/2008 23:20:47
I believe Brian has raised this issue in exactly the correct way, tongue in cheek. they are funny, except of course if you are inconvenienced by road closures, or even worse by the drunken hangers on that inevitably accompany them.
It is sad to say that this is predominantly a West of Scotland thing. I have no problem with them marching that is their right to do so, I do however object to the numbers of times they march, Sundays Herald had an article on the cost of policing these marches, the amount was not high, but it did show that in Strathclyde there were nearly 500 marches almost all of them were Orange marches, as there are considerably less than 500 Orange Lodges I suspect what happens is that lodges march several times in several locations. Why should they be allowed to do this. Suggest that all marches have to be licensed, and a smaller number of larger marches might be a way to ensure that this democratic right is not abused by these self serving people
84

subrosa,

11/06/2008 11:25:25
I agree with #6. These marches aren't a celebration they are an aggrevation to the majority of the population and an embarrassment to many.

Of course they want to celebrate but these marches intrude greatly on the rest of us and that's not democratic. Stop them now.
85

Von Trippenhoff,

11/06/2008 13:17:29
I'm a little confused as to why the reporter decided to put Fathers4Justice in with Hare Krishnas and Bay City Rollers Revivalists as if they were some oddball group. I would say to him, and to the 2 idiots who made rediculous comments about F4J in the comments here, to do a little research and find out what F4J are actually protesting. They are not whining because thier wives threw them out, they are protesting an unjust family law system, a system that you or your children stand a very good chance of falling on the wrong side of. When you find yourself unable to see the children or granchildren you love you'll sing to a different tune.
86

Detector,

Edinburgh 16/06/2008 13:09:24
Seems overwhelming - the incitement of hate is already a crime, so why are they still allowed to hold "Orange Marches"?

 

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