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Mock tram aiming to get critics on board

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Published Date: 24 November 2008
A FULL-SCALE model of an Edinburgh tram is set to go on display in the Capital in a bid to win over opponents of the £512 million project.
Work is currently under way to assemble the model tram, which it is hoped will be exhibited to the public early in the new year.

It is believed that one idea currently under consideration is to create a mock-up of a tram stop, which could go on show in Princes Street Gardens.

The final model, which will look similar to the one created by Spanish firm CAF in its Bilbao factory, will not include mechanical parts, but will feature a fully kitted-out cockpit.

While the location of the tram exhibit has not been finalised, it is expected that visitors will be able to get on board the model to get a better idea of the kind of transport they will be able to enjoy when the tram line is finished in 2011.

And they will also be able to find out more information about the controversial project.

A spokesman for tram firm TIE said: "The full-scale mock-up of the Edinburgh tram, consisting of two of the five sections that make up the real one, has arrived in Edinburgh.

"It will initially be used for consultations with various interest groups, before arrangements are made to display the prototype to the Edinburgh public."

Wherever the model goes on display, there is likely to be considerable interest from the public.

More than 24,000 people visited a replica of a tram that was put in Princes Street Gardens in 2005 to garner support for the scheme – making it one of the most popular visitor attractions in Scotland for the three weeks it was on show.

The exhibition featured information boards and newsletters outlining facts about the tram proposals, although there was an outcry when it emerged the cost of bringing over the model tram had topped £70,000.

Gordon Burgess of Leith Business Association said he would not be among those visiting the latest replica and suggested it may be targeted by groups opposed to the city's tram project.

"I think it should go on show in Leith Walk," he said. "We've been the first to put up with the disruption and we're going to get the first tracks, so this would be the best place for it.

"There's as much chance of it being vandalised in Princes Street Gardens as in Leith Walk."

Plans to exhibit the model come at a difficult time for the city's tram project. Last week it emerged that the £87m extension to the tram line is set to be scrapped amid a mounting cash crisis.

While the city council insisted no final decision has been made on whether to go ahead with line 1b between Roseburn and Granton, sources close to the project say it is now a "non-starter".


Page 1 of 1

  • Last Updated: 24 November 2008 11:44 AM
  • Source: Edinburgh Evening News
  • Location: Edinburgh
  • Related Topics: Transport
 
1

Skip McClendon,

24/11/2008 11:56:11
The Council's ingenuity knows no bounds...being able to look at a big toy tram will do little to convince me (or other doubters) of the validity of pouring hundreds of millions into this toy tramline.
2

LUVMACITY,

IN THE LOBBY 24/11/2008 11:58:59
Good, it is now becoming a reality.
3

,

24/11/2008 12:02:03
Comment Removed By Administrator
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4

cammy burns,

leith 24/11/2008 12:02:29
70 grand who the **** do the council think they are spending our money like that.
5

allknowing,

24/11/2008 12:02:59
" better idea of the kind of transport they will be able to enjoy when the tram line is finished in 2011."

Its just like a bus, but on tracks!!!!.

It will be full of neds, drunks, poor people and low life. And worse still, should there ever be a break down, or Princes St closed off for things like Hogmany, Easter parades etc, expect to disembark, then walk all the way to haymarket.

This is crazy, and is certainly not a futuristic transport option.
6

Snails dont like curry and chips,

Edinburgh 24/11/2008 12:03:57
I thought they did exactly this sometime back and it produced little interest - maybe if they stuck up a giant poster showing where all our money has gone on this white elephant that may attract a lot of interested viewers.
7

Amenemhat,

24/11/2008 12:06:16
"Work is currently under way to assemble the model tram, which it is hoped will be exhibited to the public early in the new year."

what the chance it will arrive on time?
8

Statsman,

Edinburgh 24/11/2008 12:07:58
More wasting money.
9

everything you do is probably a Balloon,

24/11/2008 12:09:35
5. A futuristic transport option might involve only travelling in your mind whilst listening to Duran Duran.
10

Bob 2,

24/11/2008 12:14:41
the money would have been better spent helping Lothian Buses with its current financial woes.

But hey get your priorites right.

But yet another example how the Evening News can spin out a story.

The model in the Picture was in last weeks Evening News.

Tomorrow it will be the Prams saga (part 24)
11

,

24/11/2008 12:18:13
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12

Propaganda boy,

24/11/2008 12:21:57
Surely it should be displayed at the foot of Leith Walk or the Gyle as its those residents that will be the only people who will get any use from it.
Those same residents that the 22 bus passes their homes every 3 minutes!
13

P I Staker,

24/11/2008 12:23:01
This splendid model reflects where the rest of the mad idea should be going - nowhere.
14

everything you do is probably a Balloon,

24/11/2008 12:23:14
10 Its only because of people like you they have to do such things. If you just accepted it and had enough neurons firing in the right places, there would be no need for such PR exercises.

Have you thought about laying off the pints and taking more Vitamin b12 ?
15

legless,

Edinburgh 24/11/2008 12:30:15
Best displayed in Chamber Street Museum beside the other outmoded forms of transport.
16

Sarah B,

Edinburgh 24/11/2008 12:31:32
Balloon (14) - why do "they have to do such things"? Public opinion has matter not one jot since this scheme was first thought of so why is it important to garner support now?

Seems like a waste of money to me, unless the Council takes the opportunity to put a heap of leaflets on display at the venue informing the public of the ongoing consultation on spending priorities and providing the address to which to write.
17

Thomas the Tank,

Edinburgh 24/11/2008 12:32:36
#12, spot on. There's certainly no point putting this Plastic Model Tramcar near the 94% of Edinburgh's population who'll get absolutely no benefit from The TramCar LINE. It's likely to get torched. Anybody else remember putting a penny banger inside an Airfix Kit?
18

AnnemarieG,

24/11/2008 12:39:52
We all have seen sufficient pictures that only the thickest of the thick will not have an understanding of what the tram is to look like. How, pray tell, is a model going to convince the overwhelming majority of us that the entire project is not a complete and utter waste of time and money?
19

Farmernot,

24/11/2008 12:41:28
Mock..........sums up the whole project and the folk in charge of it. Mocking the guid fold of Embra
20

I love to eat Sellotape,

24/11/2008 12:41:40
You know what would be really cool? If the mock tram was made entirely out of strontium.

That would be really cool.
21

Voice o reason,

Innerspace 24/11/2008 12:41:53
So much negativity, I don't know why some of these posters don't go around with sandwich boards shouting 'The End of The World is Nigh' 'We're doomed, DOOMED!' Or how about 'Ban the Tram, Not the Pram!' ;)

Personally speaking, I think the new tram system in Edinburgh will be a great asset to the city when it's finished. I have used trams in Dublin and Manchester and have been impressed with a modern and efficient public transportation system.

Just my tuppence ha'penny-worth, and I'm pretty sure I'll be shot down in flames because I actually support the tram...
22

hibbywul,

24/11/2008 12:47:34
Trams will never again run in Edinburgh
23

Ecto,

24/11/2008 12:57:22
£70,000 is such a joke I am sure we can all wait to see the real thing rather than flush another £70,000 doon the shunkie!
24

SS,

24/11/2008 13:04:45
#15 - best comment I've read on here in ages!
25

sarcasm22,

24/11/2008 13:09:12
Don't worry 12 and 17. they will reduce the frequency of the 22. So instead of 4* 22s together every 15 minutes, there will be 2 * 22s and 2 trams gogether!!!
26

scotsol,

Edinburgh 24/11/2008 13:12:16
#22 - a bit brief, surely, Madame Zaza? Can't you expound your views at greater length? Take a tip from New Town Resident - he writes rubbish by the yard.
27

Brian Ferrari,

24/11/2008 13:13:43
The City of Edinburgh Council

presents

a Holyrood production:

Trams, Prams and definitely no automobiles......

I wish we could all live on a higher plane
28

I love to eat Sellotape,

24/11/2008 13:15:30
I would like to live in a world where all edible mushrooms grew on trees and the sky was a fairly dark shade of purple.
29

Duncan in Edinburgh,

24/11/2008 13:23:00
#21 Quite. Fortunately none of the people who post here are real, except for Sellotape and Mario. The rest are automated spam-a-trons, except for Petrolhead which is an automated Clarkson-a-tron.
30

,

24/11/2008 13:27:15
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31

Alternative (High-Octane) Fuel Head,

Edinburgh 24/11/2008 13:28:27
I know what a tram looks like.
I know what a tram-stop looks like.
So does anyone with any sense.

Just what is the point in this exercise? Clutching at straws?
32

I love to eat Sellotape,

24/11/2008 13:40:36
29.

You say "automated spam-a-trons" like it's a bad thing. Some of us aspire to be automated spam-a-trons, but we can't get there. Perhaps we need more E-numbers in our diet.
33

Brian Ferrari,

24/11/2008 13:46:52
Actually, now I've seen a picture of a mock up tram, I'm coming round to the idea that it's all a great idea.
34

,

24/11/2008 13:50:45
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35

Duncan in Edinburgh,

24/11/2008 13:53:15
#30 Okay, okay, and Foo, who is a visitor from another planet.
36

,

24/11/2008 13:54:20
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37

Duncan in Edinburgh,

24/11/2008 13:57:32
#36 I am who am
38

,

24/11/2008 14:00:42
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39

,

24/11/2008 14:02:26
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40

,

24/11/2008 14:03:58
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41

everything you do is probably a Balloon,

24/11/2008 14:04:41
He's Popeye.

Anyway enough of this, i go for a cigarette.
42

Old Town Resident,

edinburgh 24/11/2008 14:06:16
While they are at it, why not a mock up of all the people discarded when the cuts are brought into force to pay for this white elephant the tram? First they come for the elderly, the disabled, the schoolchildren, then ....I despair..what they are doing is making a mockery of us all.
43

,

24/11/2008 14:09:04
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44

Peter - very disappointed/concerned,

Edinburgh 24/11/2008 14:12:10
#35 Duncan in Edinburgh,

"Foo, who is a visitor from another planet."

Duncan, do you suppose that Foo is the original 'Foo Fighter' (a kind of UFO) which were frequently reported by Allied bomber crews during WWII?

This 'mock' tram looks awfully like the space pod depicted in the film 2001 (Stanley Kubrick) and like the rest of this crazy scheme is about as far as it is likely to go.

Perhaps if Foo is also a time-traveller he/she could tell us whether or not the trams will be a success of a failure.

Personally, I hope the entire scheme dematerialises.

45

SV650s,

24/11/2008 14:14:46
A "realistic model" - so were's the cardboard cut-outs of the manitenance crew repairing it ?
46

everything you do is probably a Balloon,

24/11/2008 14:15:35
42 Are they actually going to slaughter the old and disabled as part of the tram scheme ? I hadnt realised this.
47

Edinburgh 100,

Musselburgh 24/11/2008 14:16:34
This is a throwe back to when the whiteman used brightly coloured beads to steal land etc from natives of other lands. Bring in a bright sparkly model tram the Edinburgh people will be like rabbits caught in car headlights they will marvel at the slick lines the bright colours of the plastic covered mamoth.

"The final model, which will look similar to the one created by Spanish firm CAF in its Bilbao factory, will not include mechanical parts, but will feature a fully kitted-out cockpit."

And its a model of a model as well. It will feature a fully kitted out cockpit. Why ?. Do TIE think that we are all tram freaks who want to drive one ?. Will there be lines of young boys and girls standinfg waiting to get a shot at sitting in the tram drivers seat. What an utter waste of time and money.
48

,

24/11/2008 14:19:13
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49

Whiskey,

24/11/2008 14:21:40
This council is lacking any kind of regard for the residents of Edinburgh, or for the finances derived from the people.
The City of New York had a tax revolt and it's getting close to the time where Edinburgh residents follow suite.
No consideration equals no taxes...shove it!!!
50

Sarcasm,

24/11/2008 14:36:22
I thought it was wrong to mock the afflicted.
51

Old Cartha Boy,

24/11/2008 14:37:09
It really is tragic that some bam in TIE thinks people will be won over by seeing a tram in PSG. It is not what the tram looks like that is of concern to us, but where it will run and of the damage the construction of the line is causing.

The desperate last measures of a beleaguered body in its final stage of existence!

cons is cas
52

Icebreaker,

newbridge 24/11/2008 14:39:36
Waken up whingers the Tram is a reality.When it's up and running you'll wonder what all the fuss was about
53

Andrah,

Embrugh 24/11/2008 14:52:43
Very sad that we are now forced to buy the likes of trains and trams from overseas. The large tram fleets operating in Edinburgh up and Glasgow till the late 50s/early 60s were wholly sourced in the UK and involved local Scottish companies.

More recently we have been led to believe that our brilliant financial services sector would more than offset those dirty old manufacturing and engineering activities!

What are we good at now then, other than borrowing and moaning?
54

Old Cartha Boy,

24/11/2008 15:00:50
http://www.tie.ltd.uk/FOISA%202008/tie%20Board%20Minutes%20-%20%2011%20September%202008.pdf

This makes interesting reading - £70m funding gap admitted by TIE!
55

Council Insider,

On A Day Off 24/11/2008 15:15:05
#51. A tram in PSG? What have Paris St Germain got to do with Edinburgh Trams. I'm an OM man myself. Je deteste PSG.
56

everything you do is probably a Balloon,

24/11/2008 15:20:33
If this proves anything its that the vast majority of people live whingy misinformed lives. Thankfully it doesnt really matter what they think, though with this attitude they are hardly doing themselves any favours.
57

The Judge,

24/11/2008 15:26:51
TIE press release masquerading as news.

"There's as much chance of it being vandalised in Princes Street Gardens as in Leith Walk."

Good god almighty. Gordon sounds almost proud of the fact that Princes St Gardens is as bad as Leith Walk.
58

,

24/11/2008 15:32:19
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59

,

24/11/2008 15:33:07
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60

Andy1,

24/11/2008 15:34:48
I heard two guys on the train yesterdau talking about the site of a mock up .No idea at the time what they were talking about.

They seemed to mak the decision that this would go in St Andrew's square as Princes St Gardens was full of tourists and drunk schoolkids and Ocean Terminal was too far away.

So, I'll wager it was this they were talking about and that it will end up on view in St andrew's square.
61

Truthman,

DC 24/11/2008 15:42:59
Now folks can take it to their mock jobs to get their mock pay. Economy fixed.
62

Thomas the Tank,

Edinburgh 24/11/2008 15:50:50
#54, Thanks for that link. Never mind the mere detail of a £70M funding gap, may I say how DELIGHTED I was to read that the TIE Board held a congratulatory dinner on 8th October to mark the departure of the illustrious Cooncilor Ricky Henderson and his succession by the equally erudite Cooncillor Perry. Shades of Eric Milligan turning up to make his speech at the opening of a packet of crisps. Unfortunately, the rest of the 'details' of the dinner, including a list of the exalted company and the cost to the taxpayer, appear to have been provided to the Board members under sealed cover.
63

,

24/11/2008 15:59:54
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64

Jock MacSprog,

24/11/2008 15:59:56
They really must think we are a bunch of idiots. The problem is, up to now we have proven them right by continuing to elect the same types of inept jobs for life public employee types of councilors. We will ever learn and elect some competent public officials in Edinburgh ?
65

Euan,

Edinburgh 24/11/2008 16:12:52
Yet MORE valuable public cash is poured down the drain to try and hoodwink opponents to this insane project into thinking 'hey, it's actually ok, even though they're probably going to cost about £700 million, aren't the trams all nice and shiny'

What cobblers.

Well I for one will never be convinced that the construction of this tram LINE will ever be worthwhile, and I will NEVER, EVER be setting foot on one, be it a mock-up or the real thing.

TIE and the council are desperately clutching at straws here, and yet again we are seeing cash simply thrown at this project without any consideration to the people who have been made to suffer during the construction of this ludicrous and totally unnecessary scheme.








66

Decent,

24/11/2008 16:31:29
Foo - I bet that was allknowing driving the bus. That's why he hates them so much.
67

tumshie heid,

24/11/2008 17:33:47
Fantastic! Not only are they throwing huge sums of money down the drain on the tramworks but now we get to look at an expensive mock tram!
I hear that there is to be a new lampost installed in my street soon. Perhaps the council could arrange a model one to be sited first so that I will know what it looks like??
Yet another ridiculous waste of cash and quite how they expect a model of a tram to appease the vast majority who don't want the damned things escapes me.
68

Al Pacino,

24/11/2008 17:34:08
Why are all the tram pictures showing them with Lothian Buses livery? I don't like it, it's ugly just like the buses and some of the drivers. Anyone remember the good old days of smelly green Eastern Scottish buses, Maule's corner, Jimmy Saville wrestling at the Palais? No? me neither. Come on Lothian buses get a grip.
69

Heather B,

Anstruther 24/11/2008 17:51:07
My heart is broken...

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=ZdJdoJKHyho
70

Niko Bellic,

24/11/2008 17:55:22
Why did they make a mock tram when they could have made a mockery of tramworks?

When they've finished with this they could recoup a couple of hundred quid by taking the floor off it, inverting it, filling it full of hot water and selling it as a bath for fatties.

Bath for fatties with sliding door for effortless egress. £200 local pick up only. Water included.
71

Bob 2,

24/11/2008 17:55:55
14 everything you do is probably a Balloon,
24/11/2008 12:23:14
...there would be no need for such PR exercises.

Have you thought about laying off the pints and taking more Vitamin b12 ?

why not comment on the article, I think we all know what the Trams will look like.

they've already had a mock up and the TIE videos ( TIE website) shows clearly what they will look like.

Do you not think the new demo and £70k would have been better keeping vital bus routes going

comment on the article, there is 2 sides to most of the articles.

Over the last 2 or 3 weeks, many of the have become a slagging match between many people, with little comments being made about the article!

72

Niko Bellic,

24/11/2008 17:56:41
D'you get deleted for making jokes about fatty baths?
73

Niko Bellic,

24/11/2008 17:58:21
#71 close to the bine there, making Korsakoff's Syndrome jokes. Especially as most probable ballons are necessarily teetotal - if they were full of beer they'd need a planet's worth of helium and that's basically too silly.
74

Niko Bellic,

24/11/2008 17:59:05
*typo - BONE not BINE

(Bine was a type of grandad ciggies from the 1920s)
75

Niko Bellic,

24/11/2008 18:00:50
How about a cardboard cut-out of Willie Gallagher, in full tram driver uniform, with a speech bubble saying

"Ding ding! Welcome aboard the Auchenshuggle Express. Last stop oblivion"
76

Bob 2,

24/11/2008 18:15:09
72-74 I rest my case
77

Niko Bellic,

24/11/2008 18:21:08

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=F6fQnTyEniM
78

Dan.D.Nong,

24/11/2008 18:28:24
How are they going to collect the money? The door is in the middle of the tram, the driver up front. Conductors on each tram?
79

Niko Bellic,

24/11/2008 18:38:26
You can either pre-pay at one of the handy boxes at bus stops, I saw one in Roseburn once it was awesome and you can buy bus tickets there for only a quid.

If you don't want to prepay, there will be an honesty box shaped like a donkey on the grassy bit of the roof of Holyrood.
80

roadstohell,

24/11/2008 18:58:35
so, you can just jump on & off the tram and not pay, cool, and all those pre pay sites up & down the roads,perfect for when your strapped for cash for your next fix, "cash on a stick"

I'm actually warming to the idea of trams, can't wait for the mock up to be displayed, I'll be getting on and sitting in it all day, going "ding ding" at irritating intervals :0)
81

roadstohell,

24/11/2008 19:00:37
In fact, all the folks on these pages can all get on and make dinging noises , I can see a flash mob forming hehehehe :0)
82

Niko Bellic,

24/11/2008 19:15:44
Anyone caught tampering with the prepay stations will be laughed at for trying to do a Cool hand Luke impersonation.
83

Niko Bellic,

24/11/2008 19:24:26
Half a billion pound coins, if stacked, would reach from Granton to Alpha Centauri.

Half a billion pounds could buy

Ten Scottish Parliaments (only if on budget)

Four thousand two hundred and thirty seven flats in Slateford (with change for 4237 fish suppers)

166 cans of Irn Bru for every man woman and child in Scotland.

A Caramac bar (at 1980 prices) for everyone in the entire world.

84

roadstohell,

24/11/2008 19:34:52
Mhhh difficult choice there #83
can we miss out the flats in Slateford and give a fish supper & 166 cans of Bru to each man, woman & child, instead ?

I can't wait for this "mock" tram, so we can all go along and "mock" it in the flesh, as it were
85

roadstohell,

24/11/2008 19:35:37
can you still buy caramac ?
86

Niko Bellic,

24/11/2008 19:55:25
#85 yes.

The mock tram is a stupid idea - it's like a Trojan Horse, but neigh as much use.
87

Niko Bellic,

24/11/2008 20:04:03
I died of syphilis in 1852.
88

is it me?,

Edinburgh 24/11/2008 20:07:06
I'm putting my name down to live in that mock-up.
In the summer I could sell ice-cream, drink, fags,fish- suppers, tartan tat and take in tourist lodgers.
89

is it me?,

Edinburgh 24/11/2008 20:11:46
I bet I could eat 50 eggs.
90

Niko Bellic,

24/11/2008 20:22:53
The mock-up tram's a non-starter. It's got no working parts.

They could use it as a bus shelter.
91

tumshie heid,

24/11/2008 20:51:35
Send it to a museum along with a piece of tram track and then we can put all this nonsense behind us.
What the hell is going on when we are wasting yet more money on a mock tram?
Perhaps if we all go down there and pelt it with rotten fruit the idiots who sanctioned this scheme will get the message!
92

Old Town,

Edinburgh 24/11/2008 21:09:37
£70,000 wow! blue peter could do it cheaper
93

Old Town,

Edinburgh 24/11/2008 21:17:19
Come to think of it,will you be charge a mock fare to sit in it? or will we get in for free? since the people of Edinburgh paid for it.
94

Niko Bellic,

24/11/2008 21:21:51
A herd of mock cows. Moo moo.
95

Julian.,

edinburgh 24/11/2008 21:59:57
Skip # 1,

Mind you, I doubt there's much would convince you that this scheme is a good idea.

If the Sultan of Brunei stepped in and put up all the cash for this project, you'd probably still be against it.
96

Julian.,

edinburgh 24/11/2008 22:06:21
#90 Niko,

I think the clue's in the phrase "mock-up".

But just to make a serious point, why can't they just put a real tram on display. Then they could use it once that tracks are laid...or does that money-saving idea not fit in with the philosophy of TIE???
97

GraemeH,

Edinburgh 24/11/2008 22:27:45
#96 - It's not just because of the ridiculous capital waste that this tram line is that so many are against it. It is also because the business plan is completely flawed which means there will be an ongoing subisidy of not less than £10m every year towards operating costs (compared with a current profit from the bus services). Its all in the Revenue and Risk appendix.

So if the money was to come from the Sultan of Brunei it doesn't change the fact that the basic premise of the tram line is completely flawed.
98

Niko Bellic,

24/11/2008 22:31:09
#97 thanks for clearing that up. If you take everything literally, your life must be very confusing.

But just to make a serious point - transporting a real tram with all the working parts, and leaving it on public display would not be feasible for these reasons:

-Insurance
-Transportation logistics (real tram much, much heavier than the mock up)
-Transportation costs
-Level at which production of real tram has reached (fixtures, fitting, upholstery may be executed in the country of destination, not manufacture)
-Storage logistics (where to put tram until rails have been put in)
-Testing logistics (all rolling stock will be subject to a fairly rigorous battery of tests prior to shipment. Taking one early would have legal ramifications as regards the buyer's statutory rights concerning warranty)

Etc.

Hope that clears things up for you, Julian


99

Niko Bellic,

24/11/2008 22:32:57
#98

The Sultan of Brunei wouldn't be that careless with his money.
100

Euan,

Edinburgh 24/11/2008 22:41:17
#98, Graeme.

Very well said.

#100

Very well said.
101

ted@scumbus.com,

edinburgh 24/11/2008 22:50:29
my contacts tell me there is another high ranking LB director about to jump ship, and the plug will be pulled on the trams early next year
102

Niko Bellic,

24/11/2008 22:50:40
The thing that annoys is that people who are opposed to this ongoing fiasco are charcterised as anti-tram or anti-progress.

Trams are fine in some places (e.g. Stockholm and Auchenshuggle). And if Edinburgh needed trams, it would never have gotten rid of them.

As for anti-progress, ha ha ha. It's a retrograde step, is trams.

It's a foolhardy financial step to make in a ridiculously uncertain economic climate.

Still, only £1.30 a fare.

Ding. And furthermore: ding.

Wake up, folks. It's time to stop this tram nonsense and get back to sanity.

103

Andanotherthing,

24/11/2008 23:21:17
Goodnight children everywhere.
104

Sarah B,

Edinburgh 24/11/2008 23:27:50
Ted (102) - I would not be at all surprised by another senior LB director leaving, but I would be astonished if the trams were cancelled - too much egg on too many political faces for that to be allowed to happen.
105

Niko Bellic,

24/11/2008 23:35:48
The goose is cooked. It's goosey cooky smell is wafting through the atmos.

106

Niko Bellic,

24/11/2008 23:36:57
Trams don't grow on trees.
107

Niko Bellic,

24/11/2008 23:38:40
Anyone reading this whose vocation is to be a Councillor?

Good. Are you sitting comfortably? Then let me begin:

H2O and pounds sterling aren't the same entity.

No, really, they're not.
108

me150,

24/11/2008 23:49:45
Bunch of losers get a grip!!
109

Niko Bellic,

24/11/2008 23:57:44
#109

You mean TIE?

I just called the Cone Hotline.

"Hello, cone hotline?"

There's loads of cones and the traffic is moving slower than a glacier.

"What is glacier, sir?"

It's a big dod of ice that doesn't move very fast.

"All I can do is log your call sir, thank you"

110

Conan the Librarian™,

25/11/2008 00:05:24
110
What did you expect Niko? Florian Cravic on the end of the line...
111

Niko Bellic,

25/11/2008 00:13:38
#111

You mean Bernie Crane. No, this was more like Maria La Torra's daftie twin sister.

It's a serious matter - the cone hotline is badly underfunded to the point that it is quasi-fictitious.

112

Julian.,

edinburgh 25/11/2008 00:15:38
Graemeh,

See, told you half a billion pounds from the Sultan of Brunei wouldn't satisfy you anti-trammers. How about if he put up the £10m operating costs as well? Would that satisfy you lot?

And on the point of the business plan being flawed, there's just one problem with that; this is a public service, not a business. Public services are not judged a success or failure based on whether they require a public subsidy.
113

Julian.,

edinburgh 25/11/2008 00:21:20
Niko,

Thanks for that.

But on the point of transportation, that would be happening anyway.

I heard they were planning to do some test runs with real trams next year sometime. Would have thought they could just use one of those ones beforehand.

Then again, why bother? The trams are going ahead no matter what. Why not just save £100k and forget the whole thing?
114

Niko Bellic,

25/11/2008 00:32:16
~114

You know nowt
115

Niko Bellic,

25/11/2008 01:44:06
#114

"I heard they were planning to do some test runs with real trams next year sometime"

You need tracks to do that.

"But on the point of transportation, that would be happening anyway."

Not for ages, hence the mock tram. Any more daft stuff?

"The trams are going ahead no matter what"

The trams are looking doubtful - economic indicators are the imperative here, not wishful thinking.

"half a billion pounds from the Sultan of Brunei wouldn't satisfy you anti-trammers"

Like I said, the Sultan of Brunei isn't an idiot, so there's no Sultan tram dollars.

Keep fighting that losing fight, Julian.

Ding ding.






116

Julian.,

edinburgh 25/11/2008 02:51:35
Niko,

Wasn't really a fight, but if you insist:-

- "You need tracks to do that."

"WORK to move utilities on Shandwick Place ready for the Capital's tram project is set to finish by July 7.

The road will reopen to buses for around six months before contractors return to start laying the tram tracks." 12/6/08

I work that out to be starting laying tracks in January.

- "The trams are looking doubtful - economic indicators are the imperative here, not wishful thinking."

Maybe it's just me, but I would have thought £120m already spent and 1 and a half years into construction might be taken into account as well. Care to place a bet that they won't be scrapped.

- "half a billion pounds from the Sultan of Brunei wouldn't satisfy you anti-trammers"

That would come under the category of hypothetical hyperbole to make a point, not something to be seriously analysed.

And the point is that anti-trammers like you and Euan would want this project scrapped if it was 1 day from completion...political dogma it's called.




117

tumshie heid,

25/11/2008 08:25:03
Julian its not political dogma(I think you're barking up the wrong tree...) but common sense. This whole project is a waste of money which will provide next to no benefits for most of Edinburgh and has practically reduced the city to its knees.
We have been sold down the river to serve the vain ambitions of a few councillors.
I will be very surprised if the trams are completed and look forward to hearing a few posters here conceding the point within a few months.
They are a joke and a stupid mock tram is part of the gag.
118

Niko Bellic,

25/11/2008 08:28:42
Julian,

buy a dictionary. Tram opposition is nothing to do with dogma and all to do with practicality. Political ideologies have got nothing to do with it.

"Hypothetical hyperbole" No, it wasn't 'hyperbole', it was just an irrelevant hypothesis.

119

Duncan in Edinburgh,

25/11/2008 09:12:37
I'd like to say that I have learned a great deal from reading all of these comments. I'd like to, but I can't.
120

Voldemort,

Edinburgh 25/11/2008 09:34:06
It is government like this that really just makes me want to weep ! There are no words for this level of incompetence and the hurt these spend junkies are causing.
121

Skip McClendon,

25/11/2008 09:42:28
Further proof that the pro-trammies are living in cloud cuckoo land.

The Sultan of Brunei? A billion quod for free, plus add-ons?

Not even Michael Jackson believes in fairy-tales (or cash gifts) of that magnitude.

The fact that pro-trammies are now dealing in such hypothetical nonsense only serves to further illustrate what a nonsense this project has become.
122

Duncan in Edinburgh,

25/11/2008 10:15:11
#123 Further proof that anti-trammies are living in cloud cuckoo land.

Responding to jokes as if they were serious suggestions?

The fact that anti-trammies are now clutching at such hypothetical nonsense as "proof" of something serves to further illustrate what a bunch of tadpoles they are.
123

Skip McClendon,

25/11/2008 11:15:10
#124

You are right. This entire tramline IS "a joke" and we really should all stop responding.

If pro-trammies had something, anything, valid to offer by way of evidence in support of the tramline then they wouldn't have to resort to hypothetical whimsy.
124

Axl,

Edinburgh 25/11/2008 19:13:06
#125

All very true.

With a bit of luck and common sense, we'll be seeing the end of this silly tram line sooner rather than later.

A least then we might have a bit of cash left to buy a pint and a sausage supper for whoever finally puts the final nail in the coffin for this idiotic scheme..
125

22shifter,

edinburgh 26/11/2008 13:10:51
With the admission that line 1b is to be abandoned any pretense that this is a Tram "system" or "network" is gone. It is just one amazingly expensive line linking, the airport where it is not wanted, a financial sector at the Gyle (where the only things moving soon will be empty 22 buses and tumbleweed!), and the shiny new developments at the waterfront where construction has virtually stopped.
The real losers will be edinburgh taxpayers who will have to pay the ongoing losses year in year out.
The first scheme in the late 80s/early 90s was actually more sensible, making use of old rail lines and going underground in the centre, and it was a real network.
126

Ian down under,

Musselburgh 27/11/2008 20:57:47
This whole tram debate is losing the point. I support the trams, especially if a network is built but realise that a single route is a start. #127 is right about also using old rail lines and going underground in the city centre.
We need a comprehensive public transport system and the trams can be part of that. Some of the routing can be questioned but that does not alter the fact that trams in principle are beneficial. Personally I would have included the Western General and also would have used the old Leith Central trackbed via Abbeyhill to get up to Princes St via a new Calton Tunnel and then gone under Princes St and only surfaced west of Haymarket station. That way leith would have had a rapid link to the city centre and the Waverley.
Mind you I would have built EARL and linked in to a high speed line south. If it sounds expensive then yes, but compared with the cost of doing major roadworks with car parks, flyovers etc it would be cheaper in the long run.
On the European continent transport is not seen as political in this way. we seem to be labour pro rail, SNP/Tories anti-rail. Why should this be we need an integrated mix of both and in cities where there are lots of passengers rail has a big part to play.
127

toottoot,

forfar 28/11/2008 15:25:02
The people who are against the tram are mostly little-travelled parochial people who aren't aware of other ways of transport than getting into their Clarkson Mitsubishi Tuffguys for a run to the supermarket.

Have a look at the rest of Europe, anti-tram whingers.
128

Pond Hall,

29/11/2008 10:53:35
117 gorgie_tony

come on someone has already explained that the Trams were voted through by the OPPOSITION parties

hard to swallow , but that DEMOCRACY for YOU
129

Pond Hall,

29/11/2008 11:08:07
129 toottoot, forfar

come down to Edinburgh and you'll soon realise why people are sick of the Trams.

Bus services getting CANCELED and diverted
130

Bob 2,

22/12/2008 08:56:19
Speaking on the vote Cllr Phil Wheeler, Transport Convener at the City of Edinburgh Council, said: "I'm delighted that there was cross-party support for the temporary full closure to traffic of Princes Street in early 2009. Work will now continue to ensure that the traffic management arrangements are as robust as possible.

131

NHSLothianstaff,

06/02/2009 18:18:29
The Trams are a pointless white elephant that will make some councillers feel better as they pass them in their tax payer funded taxis. Edinburgh is far to small a city to support a tram network. You can walk around the interesting bits - everything is located within a ten mile radius or you can get a bus.

European cities have a tram network, they are bigger and more dispersed.
132

Andrew,

24/02/2009 23:51:56
S U P E R B!!!!!!!!!!!!
133

Andrew,

24/02/2009 23:54:33
Berne, Geneva, Zurich, Grenoble, Lille, etc etc etc; ALL 'smaller' than Edinburgh, but MUCH GREATER in terms of TRANSPORT!!!

 

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