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One hundred days and counting



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Published Date: 30 April 2008
BEIJING marks the 100-day countdown to the Olympic Games today with songs and even prayers, hoping to put behind it the tumultuous events of the past month which have taken much gloss off its preparations.
Unlike the run-ups to previous Olympics, Beijing's preparations for August have kept to plan, and some stadiums and infrastructure have even been completed ahead of schedule. All is now ready to go.

In all, the city has spent some £17.5 billion o
n improved infrastructure, including a new airport terminal and subway lines, as well as £1.05 billion to cover the cost of running the Games.

But the smooth preparations have been overshadowed by the torch relay's troubled journey, with protesters targeting China's human rights record, in particular its policy on Tibet.

One of the highlights of today's events will be a run around the Olympic Green by 10,000 Beijing residents, part of China's promise to make the Games a "People's Olympics".

There will also be songs celebrating the Games, and in officially atheist China, Catholic churches will hold masses to pray "for a successful Games".

Beijing will be desperate to prevent a repeat of the one-year countdown mark, when Free Tibet activists scaled the Great Wall, smog smothered the capital and torrential rain brought parts of the city to a standstill.

Security in Beijing has been noticeably stepped up in recent weeks following anti-Chinese protests in Tibet and during the torch relay, and China's claim that it has broken up terrorist plots to attack the Games.

Beijing's promise to ensure complete media freedom has also been called into question, especially following Chinese criticism of foreign reporters for perceived bias in their coverage of the protests in Tibet in March. The BBC and CNN were particular targets.

"If allowed to continue, the reporting interference and hate campaigns targeting international media may poison the pre-Games atmosphere for foreign journalists," said Melinda Liu, the president of the Foreign Correspondents Club of China.

China has also lashed out at human rights groups and some European and US politicians who have, in China's words, tried to politicise the Games, and raised the prospect of an Olympic boycott in light of the crackdown on protests in Tibet.

Earlier this week, 100 Chinese athletes and 2,000 Olympic volunteers made a public pledge to keep the event "pure" and uncorrupted by politics.

"We hope that the Olympics puts politics aside and returns to the true characteristics of sport," the gold medal gymnast Li Ning was quoted as saying.

THE TORCH

DISRUPTION of the Olympic torch relay, especially in London, Paris and San Francisco, and criticism of China's human rights policy in Tibet and elsewhere have angered many Chinese, who have dug in their heels.

Those in the West, with little knowledge of Tibet or Chinese history, have decided China is plain wrong. But many in China, proud of efforts to bring prosperity to Tibet and end centuries of serfdom, have decided that western media are biased and, in some cases, malicious.

On Tuesday, the overseas edition of the People's Daily, a Communist Party mouthpiece, rounded on western media, saying that only Chinese people could properly understand the situation.

"We are closer to the facts and we say that Chinese media's reporting is more objective than the western media," the newspaper said in a front page commentary.

Comments by the CNN presenter Jack Cafferty referring to Chinese as "goons and thugs" added insult to injury, triggering protests across the world, including the launch of an anti-CNN.com website.

"We want to let our voices be heard," the official Xinhua news agency quoted Wu Peng, who works for a financial firm in Atlanta, as saying at an anti-CNN protest. "We Chinese people are standing up to oppose anyone who wants to slander China with such racial remarks."

INTERNAL DISSENT

A FEW weeks ago in Beijing, the International Olympic Committee president, Jacques Rogge, said that outwith venues "there is absolutely no problem for an athlete to express his or her views".

He spoke just days after a dissident called Hu Jia was sent to prison for inciting "to subvert state power". The charges were not linked to the Olympics, but he had been critical of the Games and published an essay called The Real China and the Olympics.

It may well be that foreign athletes can express their views, but it's a different story for the Chinese.

Yesterday, Human Rights Watch released a report detailing the pressure Chinese lawyers come under.

The report said a group of lawyers who offered to defend Tibetans involved in riots that rocked Tibet's capital Lhasa last month were warned that doing so would jeopardise the renewal of their licences.

POLLUTION

WHEN the western media were allowed into China's showcase "Bird's Nest" stadium in Beijing earlier this month, many praised its breathtaking design and sense of scale.

They also observed that the giant structure could scarcely be seen from half a mile away because of the smog.

Bad air quality in Beijing is a risk to the health of competitors in endurance events like the marathon, the International Olympic Committee has said. Jacques Rogge, the IOC chief, has said some endurance races could be postponed due to pollution.

China says it has spent about £10 billion in the past decade cleaning up Beijing's air.

China had pledged that by 2008, measurements of carbon monoxide, nitrogen dioxide and sulphur dioxide would meet World Health Organisation standards. But the IOC said last month that Beijing had so far met only WHO's 2005 guidelines.

TALLEST TASK

CHINA has yet to deal with one of its trickiest Olympic stunts – taking the torch up Mount Everest.

Separate from the round-the-world relay, the Everest route would be tough enough without the threat of disruption from protestors.

All that was heard by journalists at Base Camp yesterday was the official mantra – "the torch will go up Mount Qomolangma (Everest) on a day in May when the weather conditions are most suitable".

Off the record, several of the large band of minders and interpreters accompanying the media admitted that there was an official silence because of security concerns.

A Japanese journalist who attempted to walk towards Base Camp proper yesterday afternoon was turned back by an armed security official.

No other expeditions have been allowed on the northern, Tibetan, side until the torch has reached the top of Everest. Climbers on the southern, Nepali, side have had most of their communication equipment removed and will not be able to go for the summit until mid-May, say various climbing websites.





The full article contains 1109 words and appears in The Scotsman newspaper.
Page 1 of 1

  • Last Updated: 29 April 2008 10:46 PM
  • Source: The Scotsman
  • Location: Edinburgh
  • Related Topics: 2008 Olympics
 
1

Mashimaro,

China 30/04/2008 09:00:02
Catholic churches? Wot? *Dials up the religious persecution team*...

Now, I would hardly call the western media "biased". Downright liars would be a better term.
And if Cafferty had made that remark about Jews or Blacks do you really imagine he would still have a job? I think not.
2

postmark54,

Chongqing, China 30/04/2008 09:38:49
Don't even get me started on the Catholic church. Look at their record when it comes to human rights and religious persecution, never mind all the child molestation cases.

Like the article mentions, "we are closer to the facts" but the west keeps on believing the blatant lies being told to them by their lying governments and media, all in the name of oppressing Communism, and by trying to bring down all of China.

If any of you would bother spending some money and time to come and visit China, you would clearly see how your governments and media have blatantly lied to you all of your lives. China is a great country, with a thriving econmy, and with its people living harmoniously and have little to complain about.
The west and its lies are uniting the Chinese to stand up to the west and defend our great country. Paris in particular tried to shame us and they will start to pay a price for that, especially with their Carrefour chain stores feeling the brunt of the Chinese shopper's anger. Reap what you sow.
3

Mashimaro,

China 30/04/2008 10:16:22
Hi Postmark. I went in to Carrefour the other day and all their staff are wearing these red clothes with logos saying they support the Olympics. Wierd
4

Horrible Cankers at the Cyber Shebeen,

30/04/2008 10:30:15
Lies..."People living harmoniously and have little to complain about"...

You have some nerve typing that...it is enough to provoke hysterical laughter in someone catatonic...

Neither of you speak for the Chinese people....you speak for the machine...

All those billions eh Mushymarrow....all those billions and the suffering it has caused the poor, the farmers, the displaced...

I do not know in which context the "Thugs and goons" comment was applied...but certainly those guys guarding the torch were "thugs and goons".........I am assuming you do know what a "goon" is and who it can be applied to eh?

"Run round the green by 10.000 Beijing residents"....aye..I can just see it...sign your name on the dotted line and if you dont turn up for your wee jog...........

Skidmark....China relies heavily on France buying its crap clothing....a huge amount of France's crap clothing is made in China...from Monoprix to designer...crap clothing....made in China......

Reap what you sow?...correct...and China could be cutting off its nose..to spite its face....
5

James Donald,

Newbridge 30/04/2008 10:39:25
Amazing what the workers' paradise can do; with a per capita GDP that is remarkably low for the second largest economy in the World, it can afford to spend money like a drunken sailor as far as the Olympics is concerned.
Yet the Chinese live harmoniously and have little to complain about. But we can't all go to live in the workers' paradise as it is already over-populated, polluted, has an energy defecit, a crap transport system, no democracy, a human rights record that would make Stalin blush and, if reports are to be believed, is now full of xenophobic, anti-Western nutters determined to boycot the western consumer goods.
Don't know about anyone else, but I think I will stay in good old Europa with all its faults.
6

postmark54,

Chongqing, China, 30/04/2008 10:40:12
#3 Mashimaro,
I haven't set foot in a Carrefour store since a couple of days before a lady was murdered by her husband there about two or three weeks ago. I haven't got anything against them personally, they do after all employ many people, our own people, so it is sad that they will end up losing their jobs over an extended boycott. I never have condoned boycotts, the intended targets are usually rich, and the innocent people suffer. Boycotts, in my opinion, are just childish behaviours and hurt all the wrong people.
I can see the Carrefour staff showing support for the Olympics, after all, their national pride is shining through, and they had no say in what the store owners did about the Tibet situation. I hope that as of tomorrow, cooler heads prevail and we can let bygones be bygones. We need to keep our national pride intact and not let the west separate us by their foolish behaviour, we need to show the west that we are civilized. The west also needs to realize that Tibet is legally ours and that Tibet is indeed one of our provinces, and that the majority, a huge majority, is proud to be part of China. Tibet has seen great improvements, especially the last two decades, all because it's part of China, and the Chinese have helped Tibet become a success story. The Tibetans definitely are not complaining, no reason for them to complain.
7

Horrible Cankers at the Cyber Shebeen,

30/04/2008 10:43:57
http://www.newstatesman.com/200707310004

Interesting comments on this one..
8

Horrible Cankers at the Cyber Shebeen,

30/04/2008 10:48:32
http://ledux.blogspot.com/2006/10/chinese-soldiers-shoot-tibetan.html

Tibetan pilgrims being shot dead by chinese soldiers....
9

postmark54,

Chongqing, China, 30/04/2008 11:10:03
Armchair critics who can't even find China on the map, let alone know how good life really is here.

Tough to take the uneducated and narrow minded commentators seriously, only we, the ones living here, know and love the great China, and are proud to call it our home. Best country in the world, by far. Pay us a visit and see how good life really is over here, you'll all be pleasantly surprised.

We don't comment on Scotland, for we don't live there, and therefore don't know what life there is all about, so please don't comment on our great country, you have no idea how good it is.

For once, just open your minds, and don't believe all the western lies, is that too much to ask for?
10

Mashimaro,

China 30/04/2008 11:12:02
I think there will be a big backlash tomorrow and then it will die down. I am not sure that it will be peaceful though. There are always elements that get over emotional and I hope the government is well prepared to deal with any spill over.
That Seoul was so peaceful is a good indication of how Chinese crowds can behave.
What I cannot understand about Tibet is the western idea of returning the reich to power. I mean, putting a marmot in charge would be better.
It's amazing that everyone is shouting about democracy and then insists that the superstitous old feudal lord be reinstated. What's with that?
11

,

30/04/2008 11:17:53
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
12

Landman,

30/04/2008 12:10:58
#4 Horrible CyberDyke

The real thugs were the idiots trying to disrupt runers carrying the torch and the "troll" aka you that goes around leaving the same obscene comments under fake ID's about whangs.
13

postmark54,

Chongqing, China, 30/04/2008 12:13:22
#10 Mashimaro,
Please don't ever forget that the western media and governments have lied to its citizens about the Communists and Communism.
Take a look at James Donald for instance, who proudly proclaims that "the only good Communist is a dead Communist", and he can't even come up with a good reason for his hatred. People like him have been spoon fed this anti Communist crap ever since they were born, and actually can't open their mind to alternatives. It doesn't matter how much Tibet has improved, and is improving as we speak, the fact that China is flying the Communist flag is the only excuse they need to knock everything that China does.
They also realize not being able to vote is indeed a blessing, for when given the chance to vote, you get disappointed every time the election is over. Either your choice didn't make it in or choice is just another crook or criminal. I won't comment on who is running Scotland and the UK, but a quick browse through the comment section concerning their politics and politicians will give you an idea as to what I'm talking about. So again, why is the right to vote so important?, it's not, it's just another way to make the people think that their government is so kind to let them vote. Voting is a waste of time and money, look at the price and time of any election campaign, but it is justified by the people who honestly can't see that they're having the wool pulled over their eyes yet again. We don't get to vote and don't have to waste our time and money on something that doesn't change a thing.
14

,

30/04/2008 12:21:02
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
15

postmark54,

Chongqing, China, 30/04/2008 12:25:00
#12 Landman,
I whole heartedly agree with you on everything you said.
The real topic doesn't matter, that is just a way to get a foot in the door and start hijacking the whole comment section. Shame on the Scotsman for allowing all that filth. Just wondering if the Scotsman hates Communism and Communists by allowing that incredible filth, just wondering. Let's hope that they don't, and will ban the likes of the filthy comments we have witnessed far too many times.
The topic at hand is always interupted and soon not even mentioned any more, what a shame.
It could be said that those responsible for the filth and foul mouthed comments are also 'thugs and goons'.
16

Biker,

Ayr 30/04/2008 12:25:54
Cankers. Thanks for the link, and very enlightening it was too.
Mashimaro. Any comment?
Postcrap. Any common sense?
17

Biker,

Ayr 30/04/2008 12:28:07
Landmark. So you consider that demonstation makes you a thug eh? Dont be stupid. How can the integrity of the Olympic Torch be held up when most of the carriers were 2nd rate celebrities? Its a farce.
18

postmark54,

Chongqing, China, 30/04/2008 12:37:33
#17 Biker,
You must really be concerned about human beings and human rights when you classify people as second rate, to me all people are the same, no need to put them in different classifications, that's the ultimate of hypocracy. Once again your true colours are brightly shining and showing for all to see.
So exactly what makes a first class celebrity?, and why aren't we all celebrities? Where does it all end eh?
19

Horrible Cankers at the Cyber Shebeen,

30/04/2008 12:47:13
16...Hi Biker...I was truly appalled watching this video....the desperation in those people is tangible...and to imprison them for complaining!!!!...in their 'black prisons'....beat them up, abuse and torture them!!!....

Bulldozing their homes and they are living like rats on the streets....that poor woman with her dead husband that they would not allow her to bury...

What kind of government can allow this to happen?...what kind of government cannot control its own employees and allows them to brutalise the poor, the less well off and the desperate???

Truly sickening..

BOYCOTT THE OLYMPICS!!

20

James Donald,

Newbridge 30/04/2008 12:49:52
The corpses of millions and the oppression of countless others is reason enough to despise Communism and Communists but nobody is beyond redemption and Communists can easily becaome ex-Communists when they see the error (or rather evil) of their ways as many have done.
The thinking that brings the wisdom of "Voting is a waste of time and money" is an insult to the memory of the many who have died for the right to "waste time and money" on the frivolity of democracy. The Chinese don't have to vote and any that suggest that they might like to have an alternative to the Comunist Party are likely to find themselves either dead, in prison or looking down the barrel of a T-54.
21

James Donald,

Newbridge 30/04/2008 13:02:14
From the Guardian:

"100 days until the Olympics - but one family awaits only bulldozers and eviction"

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2008/apr/30/china.olympicgames2008
22

Mashimaro,

China 30/04/2008 14:01:28
Biker - comment on what?
23

Stonefield,

30/04/2008 14:31:55
Trolls like Horrible Cankers are far worse than communists. I find it very funny an extreme socialist like he troll Horrible Cankers is not in bed with communism, they are very similar.
24

Urban Guerrilla,

Edinburgh 30/04/2008 15:20:10
> "We hope that the Olympics puts politics aside and returns to the true characteristics of sport," the gold medal gymnast Li Ning was quoted as saying. <

There are many who hope that politics will not be put aside, and that there will be such a chorus of disgust and execration from the media that the Chinese regime will crumble and then fall, allowing freedom to come both to Tibet and to China itself.
25

Mashimaro,

China 30/04/2008 16:47:49
#24 Or it could explode, millions of people die, and the bamboo curtaiin drawn again.
26

Urban Guerrilla,

Edinburgh 30/04/2008 17:06:18
#25, yes, it's a terrible place and its government can't be trusted not to kill millions. That's why it's our duty to keep protesting, and to keep exposing the horrors there.
27

Stefan,

NYC 30/04/2008 19:43:59
Is China really even communist anymore? Isn't it as much a capitalist society as the west? Let's see... A blistering pace of export and import, a huge entrepreneurial class, growing middle class, growing upper class, an increasingly business driven govt. If I were Tibeten, I'd be applying for full statehood. I'll be applauding their heavy handed policing of the games if they prevent violence in the name of 'freedom'. I don't like everything they do; Sudan, ZimBOBwe, crappy export items. But their finding a national identity and will invariably have SNAFU's while pursuing their agenda. Besides, when the combination of one child, one family and sonogram technology render a country with negative population growth... well, we'll all get along fine won't we?

As for Mashi and company's ultra paranoid, everyone hates China stance... That speaks more of their disgust for others than the inverse. I like China. They're great for business. Business pays people. People who are paid help other people. I am people.
28

,

30/04/2008 19:50:45
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
29

Horrible Cankers at the Cyber Shebeen,

30/04/2008 20:40:07
28...Nah...nae offence but yer awrite pal...ahd rather be kicked oot o' a plane naked ower China...wae nowt but a tatoo o' the Dalai Lama oan wan cheek and "BOYCOTT THE OLYMPICS" oan the ither....

.....thanks aw the same....
30

Stefan,

NYC 30/04/2008 20:50:29
#29. I wasn't going to drink tonight, but I don't know how else to scrub that from my brain.
31

Horrible Cankers at the Cyber Shebeen,

30/04/2008 21:57:58
30...Bottoms up mate!...cheers!
32

,

30/04/2008 22:47:48
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
33

oder,

Scotland 30/04/2008 23:20:02
25 Mashimaro,China 30/04/2008 16:47:49
Or it could explode, millions of people die, and the bamboo curtaiin drawn again.


cant disagree with you on that point, the Beijing government are the only ones with the experience of killing in the millions! probably be easier second time round.
34

Mashimaro,

China 01/05/2008 01:25:49
#33 Oder you're full of carp, seriously. China has not killeld millions, that is complete and utter nonsense. Millions of people died during natural disasters and famine from midguided policies during Mao's rule. That is all.
If you want to know who is killing millions, kindly tote up those killed by US invasions since the 1950s, thank you.

#26 So in other words you believe that millions of people SHOULD suffer for your imperialistic ideals. And you call US inhumane. You want to impose western ideals on an Asian country? F*ck off. China is not a British colony anymore. Your hysterical and lying tactics will not make China crumble. It's been around for 5,000 years. We will do things in our own time.
What you might do is cause any freedoms we do have in China to be pulled back. So you have two choices. Shut the fcuk up and let Hu Jintao do his work and carry on the reforms, or undermine him and let the radical conservatives have their way.
35

Mashimaro,

China 01/05/2008 01:53:30
#27 "As for Mashi and company's ultra paranoid, everyone hates China stance... That speaks more of their disgust for others than the inverse. I like China. They're great for business. Business pays people. People who are paid help other people. I am people."

I know there are westerners out there who are quite okay with China, who can see the sense in what China is doing. I am not paranoid. I am outraged at the lies by the western press regarding what happened in Tibet. It was shocking. As a journalist we are always told that the western press is free and fair and the example we should follow. Well, it's not. It lies to you, blatantly and frequently. I realise that means that you do not always have a clear and unbiased view of what is going on in China, and you react accordingly.
Then there is the question of taking anything that the Dalai Lama says as fact or as even informed opinion when he is nothing more than a CIA mouthpiece, determined to wrench Tibet from China and destroy China - for that is what will happen.
The Dalai Lama is nothing more than a lying, Nazi inspired charlatan who owned serfs and slaves. He is not a democrat. He is not an elected leader and he does not speak for all Tibetans. Under his rule, 95% of Tibetans were serfs or slaves. Those who tried to change things were brutally tortured and murdered. The life expectancy of the average Tibetan was 35 years. It is now 65 years.
We are in a psyops war to keep our country in tact. Excuse me if I get a little passionate on it. I can see what will happen if the US wins. China will be knocked back a few centuries. Tibet will become a welfare state, China will face more drought and famine and millions more will die. Excuse me if I, as Chinese, do my best to prevent that from happening.

Tibet is the fastest growing economy in the western part of China, so you are right, it should be pleased to be part of China. Give it 10 more years and you'll have more educated people, more of a middle class a
36

Browards,

01/05/2008 02:47:45
29 Horrible Cankers

I hear those cheeks are very large.
37

57Nomad,

california 01/05/2008 06:16:19
#34 mash

mash said:

"#33 Oder you're full of carp, seriously. China has not killeld millions, that is complete and utter nonsense."

Great Leap Forward 15 to 40 million people dead.
Cultural Revolution at least one million people dead.



38

Mashimaro,

01/05/2008 07:12:12
#37 Did you read the second sentence or did your attention waver after the first... "Millions of people died during natural disasters and famine from midguided policies during Mao's rule. That is all."

There were not one million dead in the Cultural Revolution at the very most there were 500,000. Let's take a look at the UK/US alliance's work, shall we?
Korea, 2.8 million, Cambodia 1.6 million, Afghanistan 1.8 million, Vietnam 1.7 million, Laos 250 000, Lebanon 150 000, Gulf War 150 000, Somalia 400,000, Angola is not counted as are other wars created by the UKUS to further its empire. And still it continues, arming Ethiopians to invade Somalia.


39

James Donald,

Newbridge 01/05/2008 07:58:04
#34 Mashimaro,China - "Millions of people died during natural disasters and famine from midguided policies during Mao's rule" - But especially by famine from midguided policies during Mao's rule i.e. caused by Mao. The Holodomor in the Ukraine was another example of millions being killed by "midguided policies" under Communism. Killing is killing, whether it is by a bullet through the back of the head or by famine caused by Communist policies.

40

Mashimaro,

China 01/05/2008 08:21:32
#39 Rubbish... a bullet through the back of the head is active killing. Someone dying in a famine is accidental killing. Try to run that one past a lawyer sometime, Jimmy D.
And don't tell me that capitalism didn't kill people too.
"During the British rule in India there were approximately 25 major famines spread through states such as Tamil Nadu in South India, Bihar in the north, and Bengal in the east; altogether, between 30 and 40 million Indians were the victims of famines in the latter half of the 19th century"
Wow, you Brits beat Mao on that one.

Take a look at your policies in Africa, how you divided the Nile, leaving those up stream to starve.

I might also point out that China is prone to famines and has had them consistently for centuries.
The official number of dead in that particular famine is 20 million.
41

Let's have the truth,

Queensland 01/05/2008 08:31:49
#19 - Malignant canker

You post:-

"Bulldozing their homes and they are living like rats on the streets....that poor woman with her dead husband that they would not allow her to bury..."

You ask:-

"What kind of government can allow this to happen?...what kind of government cannot control its own employees and allows them to brutalise the poor, the less well off and the desperate???"

....What kind of government? The kind of government in the Whitehouse and Tel Aviv!

You know, your close allies.
42

Mashimaro,

China 01/05/2008 09:04:16
#41 I love the hysterical lying that goes on in these forums. Those people are not living like rats on the street. They have been rehoused and compensated. How anyone can imagine otherwise is beyond comprehension. Do they seriously think Beijing would leave people living like rats in the city with western journalists crawling all over the place like cockroaches? Get real.
43

postmark54,

Chongqing, China, 01/05/2008 09:28:45
#41, Let's have the truth,
It is always refreshing for me to see you post here, you, and there aren't many like you, can see past all the lying crap the west keeps producing, and you clearly have your thinking cap on, and I for one, appreciate you sticking your neck out for China. Is China perfect? of course not, but we are trying to overcome a difficult past and are continuing to make great improvements for our citizens, and that includes Tibet. It is a daunting task to say the least, with such a large population and with such varying geography. We have an unrelenting desert, or deserts, in the north and northwest, forever approaching closer and swallowing everything up in its path. We have harsh winters in the north, and we have the sub- tropics in the south, breeding all kinds of bacteria and viruses. Transportation of any kind is difficult, for with such a large population, there needs to be a massive infrastucture in place to be able to successfully and safely move people around to whatever destinations.
None of this has anything to do with Communism or politics, these are just natural challenges we are trying to overcome, and are slowly getting closer to reaching acceptible levels.
The western world is also knocking our doors down for our products, creating a lot of extra pressure on our environment trying to meet their demands, but for some reason they can't grasp that, and we are accused of being the worlds worst polluters. Maybe one day the west can see that we're not so bad, but I won't hold my breath waiting for that.
44

James Donald,

Newbridge 01/05/2008 09:34:29
#40 Mashimaro,Red China - Holocaust deniers try these tactics too. Minimise the numbers, attribute the cause of death to disease and other causes and point the finger at others for their atrocities to draw attention away from those of their own. Death caused by famine caused by the deliberate (and flawed policies of Mao) is hardly an "accident" but in any case, Communists everywhere have always been involved in more than their fair share of "active killings".
I am not an apologist for the failings of the British Empire (which at the moment consists of Gibraltar, Tristan da Chuna, Ascension Island, the Falklands and a few other dots on the map). You in contrast are an apologist for the crimes of your regime past and present.
45

postmark54,

Chongqing, China, 01/05/2008 09:48:35
#44 James Donald,
You are indeed an apologist for your government, for you voted them in, and have not managed to have them thrown out, despite their ongoing criminal war in Iraq, where who knows how many innocent people have died and are suffering beyond what we will ever know. So much for your Democratic system of allowing you to vote. It means absolutely nothing, and by you continuing to deny that fact, you're not showing any wisdom. By claiming that your vote is so important and such a privilege, why is it that nothing ever changes? The UK has a terrible history of atrocities it has inflicted all over the world, and is still guilty of that now. Show us your voting power, and have that government thrown out today. It can't and won't happen, and you know that as much as I do.
46

Mashimaro,

China 01/05/2008 09:52:01
#44 Jimmy Dee... I really grow tired of your empty rehtoric. I am not an apologist for anyone, just a realist. I don't care if it was one million or fifty million, people died because Mao made a mistake. That was bad for the country. He's dead now, what would you like us to do, dig him up and hang him?
It is strange that you can say Britain has moved on, and yet you don't understand that China, too, has "moved on". Just recently China became a contributer to the world food fund, so it must be doing something right.
Perhaps you need to start reading about Deng Xiaoping and open your eyes, dude.
47

Mashimaro,

China 01/05/2008 09:53:24
*High five* S'truth. You're brilliant, man.
48

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01/05/2008 10:22:54
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49

Urban Guerrilla,

Edinburgh 01/05/2008 11:32:24
#42, > Do they seriously think Beijing would leave people living like rats in the city with western journalists crawling all over the place like cockroaches? <

In other words, you're saying that it's only the presence of western journalists that makes the Chinese authorities behave at all decently?

Thanks for your honesty, anyway!
50

postmark54,

Chongqing, China, 01/05/2008 11:35:23
HELLO JAMES DONALD,
Still with us buddy? Suddenly the cat seems to have gotten your tongue.
When put to the task of defending your useless voting power, you grow eerily silent. Why is that James Donald? Could it be that you know that your vote means sweet nothing? Why is it that your voting power allows to keep your present criminal government in power? Again, could it be that your vote means sweet nothing? Previously you claimed that it was an insult to the memory of the many who had died for this voting power. How many died James Donald? And you justify their deaths so that now your vote means sweet nothing? They died for nothing and you learned nothing from it. Can you see why I question if you have any intelligence? Just keep believing in your Democratic BS and all the privileges it affords you. You keep showing to all how naive and narrow minded you are, you Communist hater.
51

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01/05/2008 11:40:09
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52

Mashimaro,

China 01/05/2008 12:17:44
#49 Urban Guerrila "In other words, you're saying that it's only the presence of western journalists that makes the Chinese authorities behave at all decently?"

This is a government sponsored project. When the government overseas things it usually does thing decently. The central government would not let anything slip ahead of the Olympics. People who come into conflict with private contractors often fare a lot worse.

By the way, could you at least admit that you don't mind causing millions of deaths in China while you try to impose your imperliastic ideals on a foreign country - again.
53

James Donald,

Newbridge 01/05/2008 12:38:41
#46 Mashimaro,Red China - "I really grow tired of your empty rehtoric" - If you are tired, have a lie down (constantly spouting the "party line" must be exhausting).
"I don't care if it was one million or fifty million, people died because Mao made a mistake. That was bad for the country" - This will be the caring face of Communism; millions of people die because Mao and his Communist cohorts made a "mistake". Yes indeed, that was bad for the country.
"He's dead now, what would you like us to do, dig him up and hang him?" - You would have to bury him first. It might be an idea if you did bury him (or cremate him) and turn his "hero worship" shrine on Tiananmen Square into a museum showing the past crimes/mistakes of the Communists and the "Great Helmsman"(there are superb museums of this type in Prague and Budapest if guidance is needed.
Deng Xiaoping? Wasn't he the charmer that sent PLA tanks into Tiananmen Square back in 1989? What a guy.
54

James Donald,

Newbridge 01/05/2008 13:01:03
#50 postmark54,Chongqing,Red China - News for you "buddy", I don't spend all day, every day in the hope that some Red Quisling will post rubbish.
Parliamentary systems do not have "voting on demand" as well you know, but at set elections. Since you do not know how I vote (that is part of the deal that the ballot is secret), only an idiot would term me an apoligist for the government for having voted.
"Just keep believing in your Democratic BS and all the privileges it affords you" - and you keep believing in your fantasy workers' paradise where everything gets better day after day blah, blah, blah.....
55

thatscottishwoman - freehootsman.com,

01/05/2008 13:02:05
51 Horrible Cankers

Troll
56

Mashimaro,

China 01/05/2008 13:44:06
#53 Yes Deng did send tanks into Tiananmen. Thank God he had the cahones to stand up to the cat pawing of the west and hold the country together. Can you imagine what would have happened if there were actualy riots.
57

James Donald,

Newbridge 01/05/2008 13:53:42
#56 Mashimaro,China - "Can you imagine what would have happened if there were actualy riots" - There might have been some material damage and some people might have been injured even killed. It was much better to send in the Army and massacre the problem. Well done Deng Xiaoping, brave defender of the Peoples' Republic.
58

postmark54,

Chongqing, China, 01/05/2008 14:15:15
#57 James Donald,
Thanks for admitting that you indeed voted for the current government, if you hadn't, you'd be standing on the rooftop screaming to everybody that you didn't vote for the current government. That, by the way, is also nice about your 'privilege' to vote, you all do it secretly, just in case your chosen leader turns out to be someone like Tony Blair, and now you can say, it wasn't me. Cowards, the works of you. At least when I voted in Canada, the 2 times I was naive to believe that it would mean anything, I proudly told people who I voted for, since it is suposed to be such a 'privilege'. It soon dawned on me, I was in my early twenties then, that voting was just a farce, and many of my aquaintances agreed with me, but not publicly the way I did. For some reason they were still afraid that they would lose the 'right' to vote.
Keep living in your little dream world James Donald, you have no idea what reality is all about. Every one of your comments is filled with hatred, and stupidity, and it sounds as if you actually believe yourself. The next time the circus rolls through town, you better sign up, they're always looking for more clowns, and the only thing bigger than your feet is your mouth.
59

James Donald,

Newbridge 01/05/2008 15:03:16
#58 postmark54,Chongqing, Red China - "Thanks for admitting that you indeed voted for the current government" - I don't think I admitted anything of the sort so guess again. I am not obliged to tell anyone who I did or did not vote for, least of all some Communist guttersnipe on the internet.
So you can continue your jibes at Tony Blair or whatever decadent western leader you like, I give not a jot. Similarly I care nothing for your rantings, nor do I care for the "reality" of a Communist "Mitty". The circus might work for you though, sign on and they may be able to get you out of the workers paradise. Once you are in the back in the west, it should be easy enough for you to defect.
60

Mashimaro,

China 01/05/2008 15:38:12
#57 Jimmy D "There might have been some material damage and some people might have been injured even killed."

This is like groundhog day. Everyone thinks it's like a hollywood movie - a few brave souls stand up for democracy and everything is okay after that. Rubbish. The country would have been torn apart and the death toll would have been in the hundreds of thousands. Leadership would have collapsed and with it services and insfrastructure. Tibet would have been severed from China and China would have been knocked back into poverty and famine.
The students were warned.
They saw the tanks coming in.
One way not to get hit by a tank is not to be anywhere near where it's going to fire
61

Urban Guerrilla,

Edinburgh 01/05/2008 15:50:40
#52, > By the way, could you at least admit that you don't mind causing millions of deaths in China while you try to impose your imperliastic ideals on a foreign country - again. <

You don't need outsiders to cause millions of deaths in China. Your own leaders in the recent past have made something of a speciality of it!
62

Urban Guerrilla,

Edinburgh 01/05/2008 15:52:56
> Can you imagine what would have happened if there were actualy riots. <

Yes. The tyrannical Chinese government might have fallen and the people of China might have been able to take a step towards freedom.
63

James Donald,

Newbridge 01/05/2008 16:24:03
#60 Mashimaro,Red China - Things did not develop this way in the Soviet Union and satellite states so why would your apocalyptic scenario happen in China? I don't think your crystal ball works any better than mine so this is mere speculation on your part.
"One way not to get hit by a tank is not to be anywhere near where it's going to fire" - yet another way is not to deploy armoured vehicles on a crowded square at night. Perhaps the students could not quite believe that their own government would send the army to attack an unarmed crowd.
Here is an account by one of the students, no longer subsect to the censorship of the Communist moloch:

"Witnessing Tiananmen: Night of bloodshed"

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/asia-pacific/3769371.stm
64

Mashimaro,

China 01/05/2008 16:42:09
The USSR did not fall apart because of protests. And the decade after it fell was hell on its people. Now it's back. So what good did all that do?
I don't understand why students would not think the government would not send in the army to fire on them. Where would they have got that idea. Oh, I know... America, the CIA - you die we cry.
It was a great tragedy, but what did they expect?
And since that day Deng achieved great things in China.
65

Urban Guerrilla,

Edinburgh 01/05/2008 17:04:07
#64, > I don't understand why students would not think the government would not send in the army to fire on them.

I expect they did. But they still wanted to stand up against evil. They were brave. All honour to them. Next time, I hope they'll succeed.
66

James Donald,

Newbridge 01/05/2008 17:07:16
#64 Mashimaro,Red China - "The USSR did not fall apart because of protests" - Why then would Communist China fall apart because of the protest of the students?
"And the decade after it fell was hell on its people. Now it's back. So what good did all that do?" - Hell for some, but not for all and it achieved freedom not only for the USSR but, more importantly, Eastern Europe.
"It was a great tragedy" - if you can still read through your crocodile tears here are some more witness stories:

"One of the much talked about achievements attributed to Mao was that it was he who had made it possible that "the Chinese people had finally stood up" - a sentence first used by Mao upon the city wall at Tiananmen Square on the first National Day [1 October] of New China in 1949.

But to me what he said at that time was not really true. Actually on 1 October 1949 Mao Zedong was the only person who had stood up. Millions of Chinese had since been stooping down and cowering low, and that included people like Zhou Enlai, the prime minister of the State Council.

Even Zhou had become only an obsequious "yes man" in front of Mao, let alone the ordinary Chinese people"

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/asia-pacific/3749869.stm
67

Mashimaro,

01/05/2008 17:21:29
#62 Lets take a look at the a few key cases of what people call a vacuum of power...
Germany post WW1 - Adolf Hitler
Cambodia - Pol Pot
Afghanistan - Taleban
Iraq - insurgency
Somalia - decades of war

68

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01/05/2008 17:54:53
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69

Urban Guerrilla,

Edinburgh 01/05/2008 18:47:15
#67, what's your point? Chairman Mao was worse than all of them put together.
70

Biker,

Ayr 01/05/2008 20:04:38
Mashimaro. Comment on the link supplied by cankers.
Amazing really that things have not improved since the cultural revolution when people are still starving in your country.
Postcrap. You realy aint clever enough to bandy words like this. Read the post again my myopic stupid friend.
Wanna talk about 2nd class in your adopted country? What about the Falun Gong and the disspossesed people within Bejing? I suppose its a figment of my imagination of course. Idiot
71

Bill Clinton,

01/05/2008 22:19:18
Whats the big deal? Several nutters above have their painties in a wad over some games being played in China. They make it seem like it's the worst thing ever. If they were really against China they would stop buying products made in China and shut up about the games.
72

,

01/05/2008 23:36:34
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73

,

01/05/2008 23:38:46
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74

Mashimaro,

China 02/05/2008 00:43:42
Biker I never read what the street filth writes. She is blocked from my screen. If you want me to comment on something you supply the link.

"Amazing really that things have not improved since the cultural revolution when people are still starving in your country."

You don't really know what happened during the cultural revolution, do you. It's patently obvious when you come out with such lap sap.

We have discussed the Falun Gong until we are blue in the face. They are inconsequential nutcases who like to make a spectacle of themselves when they know what will happen to them. They are also lying nutcases who believe that some wacko who thinks he is an alien is god. They are charlatans and dangerous ones at that because they tell people things like "if your pee is fizzy then that is the life force that is working through you" when the real reason you pee is fizzy is because you have diabetes and you need medical attention. It's interesting to note that they own the Epoch Times which people use to quote as if it's a real, unabiased newspaper. No, it's not. It lies. And it puts into question every single thing that they publish.
If these people were serious about religion they would be doing what the underground Catholic church is doing. Meet in groups in people's home and do their worshipping. But no, they insist on making a spectacle of themselves and being martyrs.
When they detonate toxic gas in an underground station and hundred of people die, they'll all want to know why the "government" didn't do more to stop them. Li is in bed with the US government and led an illegal protest of 10,000 people in China.
Hmmm let's plot this one out...a grain clerk decides he's an alien god - goes to the US where he is feted as if the is the Dalai Lama - he comes back to China and gathers 10,000 people to try to unseat the government - where have I heard that one before?
75

postmark54,

Chongqing, China, 02/05/2008 00:51:39
#70 Biker,
Where do you come up with the crap about people starving in China?
I don't know about Scotland, but Canada has numerous food banks to catch the people falling through the cracks, people that the Canadian government has turned a blind eye to for decades. And Canada is a Democratic country, so much for the great freedoms and protection of the Democratic system.

Nobody here in China is starving, more lies from your western media, lies that you happily believe.

You call the celebrities second rate,as I pointed out to you at #18, and I questioned you on why you classify people in any class? Thanks so much for ducking the questions.
76

It's My Turn,

The Boarders 02/05/2008 02:07:46
73 Horrible Cankers at the Cyber Shebeen

Filthy Troll
77

postmark54,

Chongqing, China, 02/05/2008 02:33:38
#59 James Donald,
Time and time again I notice that most of your comments come from quoting myself or Mashimaro, showing your laziness and lack of things to say. You've been programmed all of your life by your lying government and media not to think for yourself, and it is clear in every comment you make that they have brainwashed you with total and complete success. You have no imagination, therefore all your quotes, and anything in print condemning China brings you wet dreams. Pathetic little life you have there James Donald, too bad you can't enjoy all the freedom offered here in the great country of China. I can see why you hate us so much, it's all envy, for we do have freedom and don't have to pay through the nose for the so called freedom the west offers.
By the way, Dragonhead made it to your shores as of yesterday, please say hello to him if you happen to bump into him. Thanks buddy, much appreciated.
78

Mashimaro,

China 02/05/2008 04:50:39
Reporting live from Hong Kong *grin*.
Drizzle failed to dampen the Olympic spirit of this former British colony as the historical journey of the sacred flame began. In fact the cooler weather seemed to enliven the runners and the crowds who had travelled to see the spectacle.
Torch bearers made their way through streets jammed with cheering supporters, most of whom wore red T-shirts to show their patriotic spirit.
On the banks of the Shung Ming River, school students were as excited as spring crickets as they awaited the Olympic symbol to make its river crossing on a traditional dragon boat. They had been practicing their cheering all week, holding their own mock relays to get into the spirit. They waved Chinese flags and yellow pompoms to represnt China's colours on this auspicious day.
Meanwhile Hong Kong's movers and shakers, chosen to bear the torch brought out their own fans to line the streets. San Lai-lai, Hong Kong's only gold medalist was first to touch the torch, starting her run with fans cheering themselves hoarse.
In Macau police braced for any protests, even though the chances of this happening in China's casino city were extremely low...
79

James Donald,

Newbridge 02/05/2008 08:08:10
#77 postmark54,Chongqing, Red China - "Time and time again I notice that most of your comments come from quoting myself or Mashimaro, showing your laziness and lack of things to say" - Pot calling the kettle black there I feel. This is the way I post (as do others), quoting the particular part of another post I am commenting on. You certainly have a lack of things to say as most of your post is recycled crap about brainwashing etc....
"Pathetic little life you have there James Donald, too bad you can't enjoy all the freedom offered here in the great country of China" - Since you know nothing of my life it is rather "lazy" of you to resort to such piffle. As for freedom, I will just have to pass on the freedom "enjoyed" in Communist China and remain in Europe envious of the workers' paradise.
I do not think Dragonhead (aka Dick Head) would appreciate me saying hello - he does not like me much as i have punctured a few of his "Mitty" fantasies in the past. If he returns to the Red China with any strange western ideas, you'll be sure that he is sent for "re-education" won't you.
80

Mashimaro,

China 02/05/2008 08:31:59
*stifles a yawn*
81

James Donald,

Newbridge 02/05/2008 08:50:01
#80 Mashimaro,Red China - Tired again? Time for another lie down perhaps.
82

postmark54,

Chongqing, China, 02/05/2008 08:51:49
#70 James Donald,
So James Donald, exactly what is it that you know about China firsthand? Have you ever visited here? have you ever lived here? Can you back up all the negative and hateful things that you so frequently accuse China of? Has any Communist actually threatened you with your life, right to your face? Or indirectly for that matter? Why is it that you have such a deep and spiteful hatred towards people and their system that you've never actually experienced personally? Why is it that you only believe what you want to believe? And not the truth? Can you see why I label you narrow minded and brainwashed? Is it beginning to sink in to your head why you can't be taken seriously? Do you think that you can answer the questions I just asked you to answer? And answer them honestly? Without going into your hateful little remarks? And do you think that you could answer my questions without quoting someone else for a change? Is it indeed possible for you to answer my questions by strictly stating your own thoughts? or is that asking too much from you? Have you bumped into Dragonhead yet? And have you said hello to him from me yet? Should I thank you now or later?
83

James Donald,

Newbridge 02/05/2008 09:16:32
#82 postmark54,Chongqing, Red China - The point of these superfluous questions is what exactly? This is a comments page of a western newspaper (the ones you despise so much). It is for commenting on news stories and I am not obliged to answer questions from some numpty on the internet. I can choose whether or not I want to tell you of my personal experiences with Communist dross in the past if I want to but, as I suspect your "thirst for knowledge" of my experiences is insincere, I choose not to. No secret police here to "oblige" me to answer anything. Do you get me now? I've already told you that I don't do request for Secret Police wanabees.
I wouldn't say hello to Dragonhead on a lonely day; I was always warned never to talk to strange old men.