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Trees facing the chop to make way for tram line



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Published Date: 01 July 2008
TRANSPORT chiefs have come under fire for plans to chop down 28 mature trees in the city centre to make way for the tram line.
Tram firm TIE will cut down the avenue of trees along Shandwick Place – adjacent to Coates and Atholl Crescents – in order to widen the road to accommodate new bus and tram lanes.

Tram chiefs said they have not decided if the trees on Shandwick Place will be replaced, but added that the city-wide policy is to plant two trees for every one felled.

There is no guarantee, however, they will be put back in the same location.

Residents and community groups today hit out at the removal of the trees.

Gordon Wyllie, the chairman of West End Community Council, said: "One of the joys of Edinburgh is that our trees and greenery extends right into the city centre and it is something we should be looking to preserve. This doesn't leave you much confidence that TIE are going about this project in a sensitive manner."

The gardens at Coates and Atholl Crescents are among a number of public spaces which council chiefs have identified for £12.5m of improvements to spruce up key areas around tram lines.

Mike Campbell, 49, a property developer who lives on Atholl Crescent, said: "These are perfectly healthy trees which have been there for generations but they plan to just wipe them out.

"Given they are keeping the path on the side of trees I don't see why they can't just prune them – we have still to get an explanation as to why this is happening."

Another tree under threat from the trams lies in the gardens between Lansdowne Crescent and Grosvenor Crescent.

The Chestnut tree, which is more than 100 years old, is being trimmed in order to allow buses down the residential streets as part of diversions for tram works around Haymarket.

A TIE spokesman said: "The design of the Shandwick Place tram alignment has been in the public domain for a number of years. As part of the final design for this area, the pavements will need re-aligned to allow space for trams and buses. This will mean the removal of a number of trees.

"The Edinburgh Tram Project Code of Construction Practice outlines the project's commitment to the replacement of trees in the ratio of at least two to one as close as possible to the original location."

The trees along Shandwick Place, a mixture of oak, lime and maple, were planted in 1996.

Edinburgh City Council website

The full article contains 435 words and appears in Edinburgh Evening News newspaper.
Page 1 of 1

 
1

allknowing,

01/07/2008 12:04:09
All for what, a stupid playset!
2

alex paterson,

edinburgh 01/07/2008 12:06:44
Why not just flatten the city and have nothing but trams.
3

Hmm?,

01/07/2008 12:08:32
"The Edinburgh Tram Project Code of Construction Practice outlines the project's commitment to the replacement of trees in the ratio of at least two to one as close as possible to the original location."

So where will that be then? As far as I can see there isn't any other possible location for planting trees anywhere near Shandwick Place.

Plus, ten to one these replacements will be these stupid little ornamental type trees and not large trees like the ones being removed.
4

Dunaskin,

Edinburgh 01/07/2008 12:15:10
'trees which have been there for generations', but 'were planted in 1996.'?? Somebody got it wrong, or the usual sloppy EEN sub-editing?
5

gods lovechild,

01/07/2008 12:17:07
Personnaly id cut down all the trees and uproot all plant life in the city in case they start communicating with each other and release toxins that make us commit suicide.
6

Dileas,

01/07/2008 12:28:21
Droll isn't it that in a city centre area of high air pollution, tie are to remove trees, which convert CO2 into oxygen!

But air pollution is a problem to the City Council only when it does not interfere with its plans - it is a good excuse for doing what the City Council wants to do anyway. Otherwise, air pollution would not seem to be a problem.
7

david meek,

edinburgh 01/07/2008 12:31:22
this council is "governing" over the worst desecration of the city yet seen. And for what? Councillors who are on the "glory trail" to introduce a tramway system which is not needed and not wanted. If that is not bad enough, now they are destroying amenity which has taken years to create. Democracy!? Don't think so....
8

tumshie heid,

01/07/2008 12:32:26
More corporate vandalism for the sake of the bloo#y trams. Lets hear people argue the green credentials of trams now when we have to cut down trees to accomodate them.
Edinburgh is unique in the way that we have tree lined streets and fantastic parklands in the city centre.
Watch them be destroyed for the sake of the trams.
9

Epicuras,

01/07/2008 12:33:50
move the trams not the trees - we all hate the trams full-stop. but now that we've had time to realise what the actual proposed route will entail though all the road works chaos, it's clear the route is simply not suitable and will only increase congestion.
why not just have them in a loop in a couple of fields outside the city where they'll cause no harm and the councillors can ride round and round on them all day
10

Bonny Dundee,

01/07/2008 12:42:14
I'm sure that the input of Gail Ross of LPAG, who is a proper tree expert will settle this one.
11

Foo,

ejinbara 01/07/2008 12:42:50
I wish there were no machines, and everyone led a pastoral existence, trees and flowers don't deliberately cool you out and go beep in your ear"
12

AbandonAllHope,

01/07/2008 12:43:08
Edinburgh's rubbish these days
13

Smasher,

01/07/2008 12:46:51
If they are replacing the chopped down tree with 2 trees what you lot moaning about? What a bunch of moaning people Edinburgh is blessed with. I think the Tram system will be brilliant. The trams will surely be better for the environment and therefore please the tree huggers out there. Honestly, if we had people like you lot in charge we'd still be living caves. More planes,trains and anything with a big engine as far as I'm concerned.
14

GraemeH,

Edinburgh 01/07/2008 12:47:50
#12 -Comment of the day so far.
15

Foo,

ejinbara 01/07/2008 12:51:06
If vegetarians say we shouldn't eat animals, why did God see fit to make them out of meat?

Similarly, if trees weren't meant to be cut down and used for building/burning, why make them from flammable/easily constructed wood?
16

tumshie heid,

01/07/2008 13:03:45
#13
For me its about aesthetics on this occasion.
Why should a pleasant tree lined street be vandalised for the sake of some councillors vanity? As I said earlier features like this are what makes Edinburgh stand out from other cities. The trees may well be replaced with two others but where in the city will they be planted..? Probably at Sheriffhall roundabout!
17

Scotish Exile,

01/07/2008 13:04:11
cant wait to see trams and buses smashing into one another, that will bring the tourists in
18

eDUCATIon,

01/07/2008 13:06:18
Just an idea.....

http://www.aradertree.com/images/trans3.jpg
19

Andrew Kent,

EDINBURGH 01/07/2008 13:13:58
The vast majority of people in the city are against the trams. It is outrageous for them to even think that it might be ok to cut down mature trees that have 'gotten in the way'. And whats with the approval of that 'cutting edge' hotel at Haymarket, don't suppose 4 million for the trams fund had anything to do with that.

It is time for us the people to act. Last year I wrote to every councilor, SMP and MP that represents me to voice my opposition and everyone else should be doing the same.

Is there an official anti-tram campaign? If not lets start one, it would have overwhelming support!
20

PeterPete,

01/07/2008 13:16:22
Typical NIMBYISM and no doubt a story generated by the EEN itself. A "local" is angry that trees that have been there for "generations" (1996! Is that generations of fruit flies?) are to be chopped and is duly annoyed when he is told something that has been well-known for several years....

And were there similar outcries when the trees got chopped down on Leith Walk? Did the EEN cover the felling of the cherry trees in Nicolson Sq? Or is it because they never fail to get some "controversy" out of the trams, and when there is none, they create it?
21

AndyPandy,

01/07/2008 13:20:02
#19 - they are not "mature" tress, they were planted 12 years ago (but let's not let facts get in the way...)

And is there any evidence for saying that "the vast majority of people in the city are against the trams"?

You ask if there is an anti tram group. There isnt. If there was such opposition to the trams, as you claim, there would be! Someone tried, but it got no support!
22

tumshie heid,

01/07/2008 13:27:05
#21
What more evidence do you need than these message boards and speaking to the general public?
I haven't met anyone in favour of the trams yet and the only voices supporting it are a few on here.
23

Hoof Hearted,

01/07/2008 13:30:43
#19. It is idiots like you who give 'Care in the Community' a bad name.

No matter what - you will always think that things were better in the old days. Ricketts and TB - Happy days!!

Face facts Matey, the Tram System is going to happen. If there is an "official" anti-tram campaign it can't be particularly effective if you don't whether or not it exists! The fact that there's not one (or if there is that it is so crappy no-one knows about it) should tell you something.

24

Arrow,

edinburgh 01/07/2008 13:34:45
1) trees can be in a location for generations but they do not have to be same trees as trees grow, die and are replaced eirher naturally or by man. if joe punter tried to chop down a tree (even a newly planted one in any of the Conservation Areas in Edinburgh the Council if it allowed it would insist that the replacement trees are of a similar type and scale. if this is what they intend to do on the link within the town itself think what they will be doing on the Roseburn Link if that goes ahead. did no-one in TIE think of ths or is it "once we've started no-one can stop us because it would be too costly" they give arrogance and incompetence a bad name.
25

Wee Keef,

On the bus 01/07/2008 13:34:47
#21 You ask for evidence that people are against trams?

How about the referendum 3 years ago? Edinburgh was asked to vote on a new integrated transport system, the centrepiece of which was a tram system. 75% of people voted against.

26

JFW,

New Town 01/07/2008 13:37:42
I run a B&B and my guests come to Edinburgh in their droves because of our architecture, which includes all the greenery in the city centre. We don't need trams, the tourists don't need trams; what we need is our city centre to remain as is, with no further crappy hotel developments or pointless tram lines. We have a particularly stupid bunch of people running things at the moment if they can't see that.
27

AndyPandy,

01/07/2008 13:39:23
#22
Not sure that these message boards are a representative sample of the popluation! Unlike, say, an election where everyone had their chance and managed to return a majority of pro-tram councillors.

And even the EEN online opinion polls (on these self-same pages) consistently return a pro-tram vote. And if opposition to the trams consists solely of posting on here and talking, then this "vast majority" can't be that serious in their opposition.

Post 23 says it all.......
28

AndyPandy,

01/07/2008 13:41:42
oh, and #21 - you know what the referendum was about. Don't try and re-write history.

#26 - do the tourists visit a city to see its congestion, pollution and noise?
29

Andrew Kent,

01/07/2008 13:45:46
#23 - I would appreciate not being referred to as an idiot thank you.

Unfortunately I don't come from the good old days. The good old days when the whole of Princes Street ground to a halt when a single tram broke down.
30

NorT,

Edinburgh 01/07/2008 14:04:45
Get Tree Preseravtion Orders slapped on the trees then they would not be able to touch them.
31

Wee Keef,

01/07/2008 14:09:29
#28 I assume that was aimed at me - not #21.

Yes, I know exactly what the referendum was about - an integrated transport system, including up to 3 tram lines (still not a "network"), to be funded, at least in part, by congestion charging. People voted against the package, but still want to cherry pick their favourite bits.

I know my history very well.
32

Hoof Hearted,

01/07/2008 14:18:39
#31. All that people voted against was simply whether they wanted to be taxed more. Not surprisingly they said "No".
33

CINDY,

edinburgh 01/07/2008 14:23:44
Lat week on the traffic news (Radio 2) i heard that a street in Manchester was closed because a tram had derailed...when this happens (and it will) what happens? Does the entire network come to a grinding halt? What do the passengers do then....they can hardly hop on a bus because there won't be any!!
34

Wee Keef,

01/07/2008 14:25:52
#32 - I know. Even though the charge was not a tax, and there were much wider issues to consider. Ah, well. That's what happens when you give people the vote. They just make a real mess of things.

People were actually asked if they wanted lots of shiny new things, and if they willing to pay for them. Unsurprisingly they said "Yes but No".
35

Hoof Hearted,

01/07/2008 14:32:41
#32. Cindy (incidentally) there WILL be buses.
36

Whiskey,

01/07/2008 15:02:27
After the trees are demolished, give that bunch of 'no talents' a hammer and nails and let them build the desks and chairs they so sorely need.
And, leave lots of splinters. Clowns!!!
37

Georgy Pordgy,

Eskbank 01/07/2008 15:02:34
I like the irony of the tram breaking down and passengers being ferried by bus around the incident :-)

38

Think Tank,

01/07/2008 15:05:38
A bunch of 12 year old trees are being chopped down.

It's for the Tram scheme!

Hold the Front Page!

The professional whinging brigade LOVE these stories.

39

Think Tank,

01/07/2008 15:08:18
#33

And buses never crash do they...wait a minute, what's the front page story on the Evening News today!?

Any Edinburgh resident who hasn't been on a Lothian Bus that's broken down simply doesn't use public transport enough.
40

Sod off labour!,

edinburgh 01/07/2008 15:08:36
I'm really cross re. the felling of trees. Can't they just be moved? or is that not do-

able? What an almighty mess..... Someone is making lots of money out of this hated project and laughing all the way to the bank, while we grumble. Could some investigative journalist not do some digging around on this story? Name names, show correct accounts, follow the money? Remember the Parliament? It wisnae me from the top to the bottom.....Who exactly instigated this idea in the very first place? How much has he / or she gained personally from this project.... Freedom of Information and all that. Don't touch the blessed trees.
41

Curious Yellow,

Edinburgh 01/07/2008 15:13:12
Unless these tress are actually growing in the roadway, that stretch of Shandwick Place is the same width as the rest of it.
42

PaulB,

Edinburgh 01/07/2008 15:15:45
What about all the trees at Whitson Avenue near Murrayfield? And the trees at Picardy Place?
43

PaulB,

Edinburgh 01/07/2008 15:17:33
Plant replacements and we will have twice as many as before - problem solved. Trees die naturally and all over the world acres of rainforest are destroyed every day. 28 trees in Edinburgh don't amount to much in the big scale of things.
44

Andrew Kent,

EDINBURGH 01/07/2008 15:19:11
How come they need to widen the road in shandwick place anyway? I wouldn't have thought it was much narrower than Princes Street and many other parts of the route.
45

Leila,

Edinburgh 01/07/2008 15:19:16
Just a few little matters of fact:

#20: there were quite a few comments about the Nicolson Square trees at the time.

#27 says "even the EEN online opinion polls consistently return a pro-tram vote" - it's a long time since there was an online poll involving trams but my recollection is the results were usually anti trams. Today's for example shows over 70% going for the anti-tram option. Of course EEN online polls are completely unreliable anyway as there's nothing to stop people voting many times.

#34 says "People were actually asked [in the referendum] if they wanted lots of shiny new things, and if they willing to pay for them. Unsurprisingly they said "Yes but No"".

Not true. The question asked in the referendum was:

"The leaflet enclosed with this ballot paper gives information on the Council's transport proposals for Edinburgh. The Council's ‘preferred’ strategy includes congestion charging and increased transport investment funded by it. Do you support the Council's ‘preferred’ strategy?"

It was just a yes or no answer, not yes to one thing and no to another.
46

Statsman,

Edinburgh 01/07/2008 15:41:20
Would you people stop whining?

We all want less trees and more eyesore hotels! You people just hate progress. Ahem.
47

Wee Keef,

01/07/2008 15:42:09
#45 Sorry, I was being unclear. You are right that there was just the one question. The point is that people still want the investment, but don't want to pay for it themselves. In effect, many people answered "Yeah but no but yeah but .."
48

mrsweekeef,

01/07/2008 16:02:00
#19 Maybe after the summer of discontent that's coming when Haymarket Junction is shut for however many months at the same time as all the other road closures (gas mains, roundabout repairs and who knows what on Leith Walk!) the Council is 'governing' over there will AT LAST be enough interest in an anti tram protest before it's too late.

And I for one will be in it!

75% of residents didn't want to pay for the Council's preferred strategy and now the Council are screwing all our other services to glorify themselves.
49

daveserviceman,

edinburgh 01/07/2008 16:35:44
The trees do not have to be chopped down they can be move a couple of metres and replanted, all beit they will have to have guide ropes for a year whilst the roots re establish themselves.
It is too late to stop the trams as no money would be saved as the cost would still have to be paid to the contractor for breach of contracts
50

The Genuine Mario Antoinette,

01/07/2008 16:48:19
Oh Bore me to tears.

What about the Amazon.
51

The Genuine Mario Antoinette,

01/07/2008 16:50:07
I suppose we could have got a tram that did a slalom between the trees at an extra 120 Million. That could have been fun.

I look forward to tomorrows generic whinge about the construction work "Bin has to be moved" etc.
52

tomias,

Edinburgh 01/07/2008 16:50:19
49- good idea di it with the trams- reroute them
53

Ghengis McCann,

Edinburgh 01/07/2008 16:57:55
A tram ate my baby. Really. It did. Hit it with a tree and then ate it. Just like that. In Shandwick Place, it was.

Call me old-fashioned, but I think that the vast majority are opposed to trams who hit babies with trees and then eat them. Especially in Shandwick Place.

Tourists don't come to this beautiful city expecting to see tree-wielding, baby-eating trams, do they? Not in Shandwick Place anyway.
54

I love to eat Sellotape,

01/07/2008 16:58:48
Perhaps they could invite Kenny Richey to chop down the trees.

With his bare hands.
55

Gorgie_Tony,

Edinburgh 01/07/2008 17:41:19
All you SNP fans - remember you voted for them because they promised to scrap the tram project - well look what has happened - you made your bed - now lie in it!! Roll on the next election!!
56

tumshie heid,

01/07/2008 17:58:36
Tony, you should be the first statistic of any accidents involving trams.
You know fine well that the SNP would have scrapped the trams if they had a majority.
57

Waspy100,

01/07/2008 18:18:27
#56
Aye right.
Having a laugh then?
Been signed and sealed years ago couldnt afford to scrap it.
58

Waspy100,

01/07/2008 18:22:07
Shame really
I suppose Naraina,s wee dug wont have anywhere to go for a wee will it.
59

Gorgie_Tony,

Edinburgh 01/07/2008 18:23:26
#56 - Anyone with a brain would have realised that if the SNP got elected, it would not be a majority government, therefore their election manifesto would be purely fantasy - I saw that coming. Unfortunately a lot of folk didn't use their brain, and voted for the no-hopers. I did say this prior to the election - but as usual folk didn't listen to the voice of experience, instead they chose to mock me. Well long may they suffer - that will teach them a lesson.
60

tumshie heid,

01/07/2008 18:34:23
Tony how are we suffering? Scotland is a far better place since the SNP were elected and anyone with a brain knows this.
When the next elections take place I predict many more people will be voting for the SNP.Labour are finished, a joke. Conservatives will never gain enough popularity here and the Lib/dems? Do I need to say anything?
61

Waspy100,

01/07/2008 18:38:45
#29
If you did not come from the "good old days" how do you know Princes Street ground to a halt.
I remember trams and cannot recall any ever breaking down let alone cause traffic chaos.
Only problem I had was avoiding the tramlines on my bike.


Bit of a dreamer lad?
62

Waspy100,

01/07/2008 18:46:38
And while we are at it
I dont suppose Mr Campbell the property developer ever had trees cut down that impeded its developement
Stones and glass houses spring to mind
63

Gorgie_Tony,

Edinburgh 01/07/2008 18:53:02
#60 - what happened to the 1000 extra police officers? numbers have actually dropped. What happened to their promise of reducing class sizes - they are closing schools and making teachers redundant - which makes class sizes bigger. What happened to their promise about scrapping student debt? They dropped that plan. They promised to scrap the tram project - yet another broken promise. They promised to scrap the council tax - how come I am still paying it? They have increased pollution by scrapping tolls on the Forth road bridge - traffic jams are even worse - and we have had posters on here confessing to repeatedly crossing the bridge because it is now free. Yes the cost of the upkeep of the bridge now lands on the plate of those that don't use it - instead of targeting the very people that use it. And Salmond accepts an election donation from the biggest homophobe in Scotland - how can you say things are better - they are a lot worse - and will get even more worse. Roll on the next election!
64

Maxibus,

01/07/2008 19:09:40
What do we do when the oil runs out?
65

The Genuine Mario Antoinette,

01/07/2008 19:33:07
Laugh at the "bikers" ?
66

Jambo4ever,

01/07/2008 20:34:26
The Tram project is the biggest mistake ever made in the City of Edinburgh.

The council should have put this to the people, after all it's the people that pay the bills and council taxes etc, so we should have a say, it could and should have went to a referendum.
67

The Judge,

01/07/2008 20:50:32
http://www.javno.com/en/lifestyle/clanak.php?id=160714

You know it makes sense!

Scrap the tramLINE and invest the money in personal flying machines, Sir Clive is never wrong.
68

Darren :-),

01/07/2008 21:24:26
http://www.chataboutanything.com/forums/motoring/11-trams-edinburgh.html

Against or pro the trams - why not discuss it?
69

The Batboy,

01/07/2008 22:10:29
"I'm sure that the input of Gail Ross of LPAG, who is a proper tree expert will settle this one."

Isn't she the woman who thinks trees steal oxygen from people??
70

,

02/07/2008 08:27:07
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
71

Andrew Kent,

EDINBURGH 02/07/2008 12:43:31
#61 - I know Prices Street and the rest of the town ground to a halt because there is a book with a picture of it on the cover, plus my uncle told me about it.

Wise guy!
72

Peter - very disappointed/concerned,

Edinburgh 02/07/2008 16:12:55
61 Waspy100

"If you did not come from the "good old days" how do you know Princes Street ground to a halt."

Waspy, I come from the "old days" and certainly remember huge jams caused by trams in Princes Street (and other places) and Yes, there is a book "Mckenzies Pictures of Edinburgh" (or a similar title) with one very impressive photo taken in 1956 (originally in the Scotsman) and showing the great Princes Street Tram Jam from the NB to the West End.

I also remember trams breaking down and causing chaos to other trams using the same line (it is a serial delivery system afterall). Sadly I also recall people being knocked down by them, sometimes with fatal results.

Yes, you're right about one thing, the tracks could be very dangerous to cyclists, but they are all on the pavements now-a-days anyway and will be perfectly safe.

I hope the new trams are a total failure.

73

Axelfols,

02/07/2008 19:46:39
Stuff the trees. There's plenty in my massive garden.
74

Ian down under,

Kawerau 02/07/2008 21:31:58
The main point is being missed here. Yesr an efficient rail transport system such as the tramway is needed. Howevere the problem here is that not enough vision is being shown. What should be happening is that the tramway should have gone underground from Haymarket, at least, follow the streets either by tunnelling or 'cut and cover' [yes there would be roadworks but the whole exisiting street would again become available for rubber, diesel and petrol] .They could stay underground all along Princes St, then put a station where the Waverley Market [I'm old fashioned] is and have one branch heading to Leith and another going down towards Calton Hill and tunnel through to Abbeyhill. Use the old railway back to Craigentinny then swing up over the main line at Portobello. From there use the old Lothian Lines formations to reach the old Musselburgh branch railway and run down to Musselburgh and perhaps through to Levenhall. Another branch could swing over and onto the Sub line and on reaching Haymarket West it could dive under the main railway to join the Granton/Airport line underground.
Expensive, yes if you only look at cost now but over many years this would be a boon to the city. Extension branches could then go off the loop lines and branches and with no city centre roads clogged up to contend with they could be running at virtually 1 minute to 90 second intervals through the centre.
Develop main line rail as well including the airport. Keep buses for places not rail served and for the intermediate areas and get them to feed the trams/trains at the same time as providing Park and Ride. Make joint ticketing for all public transport and day/week/month season tickets valid on all modes.

 

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