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Mums 'force disabled off buses'

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Published Date: 05 September 2008
LOTHIAN Buses has hit back at a campaign to allow prams on buses by claiming half of mothers refuse to leave to make room for a wheelchair.
Hundreds of parents, as well as councillors and MSPs, have called for the company to end its controversial ban. They say parents with prams and buggies should be allowed to use the wheelchair space if vacant, on condition they leave or fold their pram if it is required.

But Lothian Buses says a survey of bus drivers has found that 20 per cent of users refuse to fold their buggies when asked. This rises to 50 per cent when the pram cannot be folded, and the only option is getting off the bus.

The response comes as pressure is mounting on the company to find a compromise. More than 750 parents have signed a petition, while eight MSPs have signed a motion in the Scottish Parliament.

Council leader Jenny Dawe is the latest to call for a "common sense" approach.

Justice secretary Kenny MacAskill has discussed the issue with Lothian Buses, and Shirley-Anne Somerville MSP is planning to lead a delegation meeting with parents.

Neil Renilson, chief executive of Lothian Buses, said a significant number of parents refused to accept that disabled passengers should have priority. This has led to the need to enforce a complete ban on unfoldable prams and buggies.

He wrote: "On a typical weekday, the number of occasions when wheelchair users board a Lothian Buses vehicle ranges from between 285 to 340.

"Typically, circa 20 per cent of requests by drivers to adults with pushchairs to vacate the wheelchair space to allow a wheelchair user to board result in a refusal to do so. The level of refusals can vary depending on the time of day and the route involved, but, as a result, every day a substantial number of wheelchair users find that they cannot board the bus they wish.

"Some give no reason and simply tell the driver 'No', while a few supplement their 'No' with abuse directed at the driver.

"When a request to vacate the wheelchair space is made to those who have boarded with a pram that cannot be folded and stowed in the luggage rack, and the only option to vacate the wheelchair space is to leave the bus, the rate of refusal climbs to circa 50 per cent."

He was responding to a letter from Councillor Maureen Child, who represents Portobello and Craigentinny. She wrote: "I would imagine everyone agrees that wheelchairs come first and get absolute priority, but the space is not used 100 per cent of the time by a wheelchair user."

However, a Lothian Buses spokesman was not able to confirm where they got their figures from. Many campaigners said the figures did not match their own experiences.

Nicki Lewis, 26, pictured left, a mother-of-two from Musselburgh, said: "These figures seem to have been plucked from nowhere. Surely, all the driver has to do, when someone with a pram or buggy boards, is tell them that if the space is needed they will need to fold or vacate."

Another mother, Alison Lynos, added: "The law-abiding, considerate public are being victimised here."


Page 1 of 1

  • Last Updated: 05 September 2008 11:49 AM
  • Source: Edinburgh Evening News
  • Location: Edinburgh
  • Related Topics: Transport , Lothian Buses
 
1

Logic,

Edinburgh 05/09/2008 11:54:36
Really don't understand this issue at all - shouldn't it be first come first served as it is for all other passengers! i.e. If the space is free and a mother with a buggy gets on board then she should and the space is taken and vice vera.
2

Brian Ferrari,

05/09/2008 11:59:41
"...20 per cent of users refuse to fold their buggies when asked. This rises to 50 per cent when the pram cannot be folded..."

Discuss
3

Simon M,

Edinburgh 05/09/2008 12:02:18
#1 No, people with buggies should not get equal priority with disabled people. Low floor buses were primariliy introduced to benefit disabled people, not owners of buggies. I think the Lothian Buses position is entirely sensible - and no, I don't work for them.
4

alex paterson,

edinburgh 05/09/2008 12:04:14
Mothers are perfectly capable of walking with a buggy,the younger generation are just to lazy,one buggy pusher i saw got on a bus and only went two stops,lazy buggyers.
5

Grouchy,

Edinburgh 05/09/2008 12:04:20
It's about time Lothian Buses fought back! By the way Shirley Anne Somerville hasn't she just had a baby? Would she fold down her pushchair to allow a wheelchair user on the bus???
6

,

05/09/2008 12:06:41
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
7

The Judge,

05/09/2008 12:07:25
The driver should be instructed not to move from the bus stop until the parent with the buggy folds it up or leaves the bus.

The tut tutting from the other passengers would be deafening.
8

Pazuzu,

05/09/2008 12:12:41
First come first served I'd think.

Me and the missus have a 9 month old baby, we walk everywhere so long as on the way back I get to go to the pub.

But as for fat people....fuel costs...seat wear and tear...your own "space" being invaded...overlapping....the list is endless.

May not be particulary "pc" but that the facts...

Hmmm.
9

Joe Smith.,

Moscow 05/09/2008 12:13:44

What was the policy on the Eastern Scottish C5 Sprinter?
10

pofi,

05/09/2008 12:14:36
This illustrates exactly why the Pram Ban must continue. Because a sizeable number of mothers would refuse to fold their buggies or get off. Can you imagine the frustration of other passengers at the delay a stand-off between the bus driver and the parent would cause? And why should the bus driver be put in that position?
Keep the wheelchair space for wheelchairs. Lothian Buses will stay within the limits of the disability access bill- and the rest of us will be spared the ugly scenes we are already witnessing.
I was on a bus this week with the wheelchair space occupied by a wheelchair user (strangely enough) when a stroppy granny with a carrycot pram threw filthy looks at the poor guy when she wasn't allowed on. The rest of the bus threw filthy looks back at her, as well she deserved.
Keep sending your emails of support for the Pram Ban to Lothian Buses- and hopefully we'll see an end to this interminable debate.
Yes, I am a mum. A mum who used a folding buggy on buses. I've noticed more mums using baby slings, reins and foldable buggies recently- good for them!
11

Skip McClendon,

05/09/2008 12:17:28
Hmmmm....I somehow doubt the reliability of this "survey" carried out by Lothian Buses.

What were the questions that were asked? How many drivers were surveyed? Was the research carried out anonymously by an independent research company? Or did LRT managers corner a couple of drivers in the staff canteen and ask them a couple of loaded questions?

After all, research proves that 78.3% of all statistics are made up...
12

Pazuzu,

05/09/2008 12:18:03
And then there are the smelly people....too much perfume, or indeed not enough at times.

Then there's the creepy guy / woman who always seems to catch your eye....

And of course there's the queue jumpers, who believe that they are first in the queue just because they are standing nearest the road...

Then there's the smoking ban. I smoke but stand well away from the the shelter (if there is one) and respect other people wishes, except whent queue jumper forgets I was there before them...
13

Number1,

Here and there 05/09/2008 12:18:03
I always wait until the mother/father folds the buggy and YES, it does draw a lot of 'tutting' and moaning. But I'm not putting my job on the line because I moved away from the stop, causing the person to injure themselves. As for fatties with MacDonald's on buses... not on my bus, it clearly states on the drivers cab door ''No drinks in cups, no food and no smoking'' and I stick by these rules. Call me pernickety, but you can't bend the rules for one then not another!
14

Duncan in Edinburgh,

05/09/2008 12:18:22
Nicki Lewis, 26, pictured left, a mother-of-two from Musselburgh, said: "These figures seem to have been plucked from nowhere."

Erm, no love, Lothian Buses has been asking drivers to note all instances so that they can respond to the complaints with accurate information.
15

JT,

05/09/2008 12:19:10
Much as its inconvient to wait until the next available bus, thats what the other passengers have to do when buses are full so why is it so wrong for those in wheelchairs or with buggies to not wait? Ive had to wait first thing in the morning to see 3 or 4 buses go past me completely full. Also alot of the wheelchair and buggy users (not all) dont work therefore so surely have a little bit more flexibility in their journey times. I have regular appts at the ERI and have to leave about an hour or so before to allow me to get from work to the clinic. I dont say to the full bus let me on Ive got a appt or else so why should anyone else.
16

Number1,

over there 05/09/2008 12:21:19
Oh yeah, who is this ''LRT'' company you speak of? I know of Lothian Buses, First Bus. Never heard of LRT in YEARS!!! GET IT RIGHT FOOLS!
17

Bob 2,

05/09/2008 12:22:11
simple solution

make more space

on one side a space for wheelchair users

on the other a space for a normal size pram/buggy

Fold up seats could be intstalled, FIRST have got some on there low floored buses.

So everyone can use the space.
18

Skip McClendon,

05/09/2008 12:22:32
#20

Calm down. I wouldn't want you driving a bus with so much rage in your system.
19

Linmal,

Livingston 05/09/2008 12:23:57
#10 Being a parent myself, albeit my children are grown up and I now have grandchildren, I am not a child hater. However, I do sit in the front seat of the bus when it isn't busy. However, I do vacate it if someone less able gets on - that is what people with prams, etc, should do.

You are to be commended for using a sensible means of taking your baby on public transport its a shame others don't seem to want to follow suit.

There are prams and buggies that can be folded for when your child is older and I am sure you will use one of these. I still don't think you should have to get off the bus if a wheelchair user comes on after all the person with the child will have paid their fare, a wheelchair user does not. If that's not an advantage I don't know what is. Surely it would be more comfortable as well to travel when the bus is less busy? And is there not a service called "dial a bus"? It certainly operates in my area and I know my elderly neighbour makes use of it at least twice a week to do her shopping. What is wrong with using this service?

I would advocate everyone being sensible, here. There are times in the day when the buses are particularly busy, ie 7.30 am to 9.30 am and 4.30 pm to 6.30 pm. Why not try and plan your journey outwith those times? If your not working I would think it would be a fairly easy exercise. If you are, then of course it is unavoidable.

Where are all these wheelchair users gettion on buses? I've been travelling on buses on a daily basis for 25 years and I've only seen a wheelchair user twice, maybe three times!
20

Number1,

Under that bit 05/09/2008 12:25:12
Tee hee
You should see me driving to Morningside during the rush hour.
''Driver, do you go to Morningside?''
''Yes, I go the same way as the four buses you just let pass you''
EEJITS
21

Bob 2,

05/09/2008 12:25:38
Number1 (comment 20) do you mean FIRST, they dropped the bus bit years ago, their like to be called FIRST Group... bizarre I know.
22

Peedie Paws,

05/09/2008 12:26:39
How about this for an idea - we revert back to the old style buses so no wheelchairs or buggies can get on the bus. PROBLEM SOLVED!
23

ST170,

05/09/2008 12:27:33
Who wants to get on a bus anyway, thats for the poor...
24

,

05/09/2008 12:28:53
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
25

Number1,

Nowhere 05/09/2008 12:28:57
I see Bob 2, don't really pay attention to them.
As for your comment on folding seats. A lot of our single deck buses have these folding seats and DO have space for a wheelchair AND a buggy/pram. But are still only allowed one or the other.
26

Bob 2,

05/09/2008 12:29:21
Nicki Lewis, 26, pictured left, a mother-of-two from Musselburgh, said: ".... all the driver has to do, when someone with a pram or buggy boards, is tell them that if the space is needed they will need to fold or vacate."

Try being a bus driver Ms Lewis, gone are the days when people considered the less fortunate.
27

dobsta,

edinburgh 05/09/2008 12:29:32
As the grandmother of a child who uses a wheelchair and was refused access to the wheelchair space because a buggy was using it,and a folding one at that.I feel the driver should be able to enforce the vacating of this space which currently they can not do,they can only request that they do so. Should not be first come first served as these spaces have been primarily designed for wheel chairs, I dont have a problem with buggys/prams using it but Lothian buses are right when they say numerous parents do refuse to vacate this space when requested.This is what needs to be addressed.Again the actions of a few selfish people have been the cause of this debate.
28

Skip McClendon,

05/09/2008 12:30:39
#27

What a sparkling wit. Such insightful social comment! Ladies and gentlemen, we have found the new Oscar Wilde!
29

Charles Linskaill,

Edinburgh 05/09/2008 12:33:43

Linmal ~23,

"Where are all these wheelchair users getting on buses? I've been travelling on buses on a daily basis for 25 years and I've only seen a wheelchair user twice, maybe three times!"

...EXACTLY!!

You wana know?

In their cars taking up 40% of car parking spaces at the supermarkets!
30

Steven P,

edinburgh 05/09/2008 12:34:01
So Renilson gets paid £250 000 pa to survey his drivers on prams.
Nice work if you can get it.
Where can I apply.
31

ST170,

05/09/2008 12:34:14
Thanks 32, I do try
32

Charles Linskaill,

Edinburgh 05/09/2008 12:36:06
~33,
BTW! in their car that is paid for by benifits.
33

Bob 2,

05/09/2008 12:36:58
16 Pazuzu, (comment 16)

make a good point in general. its amazing, when your standing at a bus stop.

People arrive well after you, have a look at the timetable and then promptly think thats me 1st in the queue.

Buggy users do the same, bus coming along and their they are promptly straight to the front of the queue

Or the classic I must stand at the front and block the entrance to the bus, tough to the rest of you.

Or why do people insist on in the middle of the path next to bus shelters, blocking pedestrians walking pass

It amazing how ignorant people are today, stand back at a bus stop for a few minutes and watch the coming and goings of people

Anton Marionette (comment 10) - good comment
34

Number1,

Under the doormat 05/09/2008 12:39:31
Bet this tops 150 comments today!
35

Bob 2,

05/09/2008 12:40:54
number One and double deck buses
36

Number1,

At the bus stop 05/09/2008 12:43:15
Last comment from me today, I'm off to refuse pram users, people stuffing there faces with McDonalds and the few and far between wheelchair user.
37

elayne,

05/09/2008 12:44:54
we dont have such a ban in fife(though i have heard its on its way)so the buses are filled with buggys and prams of every description and a lot of mums dont take kindly when a less able bodied passenger aboards the bus in a wheelchair,there is one guy who uses a motorised chair and tells people to move prams and hes quite right,he cant help having a disability,whereas young mums have the option of walking with the pram,but some would class that as hard work!
38

Brian Ferrari,

05/09/2008 12:45:00
Why can't I take my bicycle on the bus when it is raining?
39

Bonzo,

05/09/2008 12:45:13
Perhaps mothers with prams should be launching a campaign against other mothers with prams who refuse to vacate the wheelchair space when asked. Clearly the bus company wouldn't be operating such an unwelcome policy if all mothers were as obliging as the protestors claim.
40

gorgeousgorgieboy,

Edinburgh 05/09/2008 12:45:26
150?

Well I'm not going to contribute.
41

ST170,

05/09/2008 12:46:19
39 i'll aid this cause i'm bored...

Stop having kids then, problem solved! Or put them in a back pack, 35 litre would suffice or 60+litre for twins. Or leave them at home. Where are these mothers going anyway? to pick up their child benefits or visit their man in the big house no doubt.
42

pofi,

05/09/2008 12:47:57
#20 Good on you; what is wrong with people who can't get the name of the bus company right?! Even if you don't use them you can hardly miss LOTHIAN BUSES written all over the buses and bus stops, and the numerous fora on the EEN!

#23 Your comments used to be quite sensible; now they are getting a little outrageous. So, because a disabled passenger hasn't paid for their fare they should wait for the next bus? Who's paying the bus fares of some of the mothers anyway- the tax payer via their benefits. The whole point of this debate is that Lothian Buses have to act within the Disability Discrimination Act. They provided wheelchair spaces on buses for WHEELCHAIRS.
So, just because YOU haven't see more than a few in Livingston they don't exist?! Have you thought that that's because it has become a complete struggle for them to attempt using buses with the attitude of the afore-mentioned defiant mothers taking up THEIR space?

Remember, parenthood isn't a debilitating illness it is a lifestyle choice.
43

Bob 2,

05/09/2008 12:47:59
33 Charles Linskaill,Edinburgh

answer they can't as People with buggys are refusing to fold them.

worst offenders are the ones that get on , shopping bags hanging off the buggy, promptly take the "child" from the buggy and head up to the top deck of the bus, leaving the buggy to its own means.
44

A Friend of Fernando Poo,

05/09/2008 12:49:21
The ideal solution would be to store all buggies and prams in the boot, as they did when I was a kid.

If some ignorant parent refuses to make way or remove themselves for someone who is disabled then the drivers should loud;y announce that the bus will not move until the retard complies. The other passengers will quickly persuade them of the error of their ways.
45

JustcallmeDeb,

05/09/2008 12:52:25
I remember in the 80s and early 90s when ALL buggies had to be folded up. This was simply before they changed the buses to allow for wheelchairs to go on board (uh huh, wheelchairs). Mothers didn't complain back then and got on with it....why can't they do it now???

I don't agree with banning them completely but if my mum managed it back then without complaining then I'm sure today's mothers could too.
46

Charles Linskaill,

Edinburgh 05/09/2008 12:54:26

Bob 2 @#48,

The disabled are well catered for, a new car paid for by benefit's every three years, this is why we hardly see disabled on the buses,

Its a total nonsense, being used to discriminate mothers with babies.
47

Bob 2,

05/09/2008 12:56:43
The disabled are well catered for, NOT
48

Charles Linskaill,

Edinburgh 05/09/2008 12:57:30

#52,

Little you Know.
49

Catlover18,

05/09/2008 12:57:57
So agree with No 38. I like to stand back of an evening and let everyone try and squash on the first bus that arrives at the bottom of Lothian Road. Its a sight to see, pushing in, people that queued getting upset at the people just arrived. Don't they know that another 10 buses are just coming around the corner, just wait, be patient.

As for the wheel chair/ buggy debate in all the years I have taken the bus which are vast in number. I have never seen a wheel chair user get on a bus. But maybe its because they can't for all these buggies. Can't believe that this is turning into such a big issue.

50

raythebear,

edinburgh 05/09/2008 12:59:47
lets hope lothian stick to their guns
51

Bob 2,

05/09/2008 13:00:12
not every "disabled" person can drive.


best comment of the day is
47 pofi,05/09/2008 12:47:57

Remember, parenthood isn't a debilitating illness it is a lifestyle choice
52

Charles Linskaill,

Edinburgh 05/09/2008 13:01:08

Catlover18 ~54,

"I have never seen a wheel chair user get on a bus."

More proof!, in their cars, paid for by benifits.
53

Brian Ferrari,

05/09/2008 13:01:40
#47 is a good point. In the old days there was a parcel shelf for folded buggys and parcels, and no room for wheelchairs or prams that don't fold.

The disability act forced them to provide space for wheelchairs, and now the Provisional Mothers Brigade want to stick their prams in there.

Lothian's stance is clear and correct. It makes it clear to everyone what the position is. It avoids any on board disputes once a pram has come aboard and ensures their compliance with the Act.
54

,

05/09/2008 13:02:00
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
55

Charles Linskaill,

Edinburgh 05/09/2008 13:02:32

Bob 2 ~56,

If not, their carer drives for them.
56

Charles Linskaill,

Edinburgh 05/09/2008 13:06:28

"Remember, parenthood isn't a debilitating illness it is a lifestyle choice"

STUPID COMMENT! NO "Parenthood", NO Need for any Buses!

Think about it!
57

Bob 2,

05/09/2008 13:06:29
57 keep up the comments

hope you never have to use a wheelchair, but if you are unfortunate enought, do remember not to live of the state or get a car!

anyway what was the debate about
58

Bob 2,

05/09/2008 13:07:46
61, think you've missed the point of the comment.

think about it.
59

Bob 2,

05/09/2008 13:09:34
anyway heres todays spin from TIE

A spokesman for TIE said: "TIE's traffic modellers have devised a solution that does not require the expensive removal of the statues on George Street.

"Instead, the size of each traffic island will be reduced and the statue plinths protected.

"Each junction will be signalised and provided with pedestrian crossings.

"This solution is the most cost and time effective, whilst balancing the needs of pedestrians and managing the increased traffic on George Street."

so they want be moving the statues
60

Velvet,

Edinburgh 05/09/2008 13:10:55
I have a foot in both camps, so to speak - I'm disabled (usually walk with a cane due to a systemic condition, have been a wheelchair user in the past) and a new mother.

What LRT are ignoring here in all their rhetoric is that Disability campaigners have repeatedly stated that they don't agree with these guidelines being enforced in the way they are. I've never seen a parent refuse allow a wheelchair user to use the allocated space - and I DO agree it should be vacated immediately if such a passenger requires it - and the fact that LRT are refusing to back up their seemingly arbitrary 20-50% statistic raises doubts as to its veracity.

When I'm having a 'good' day, I carry my newborn in a sling. On a more painful day I'm unable to carry him in this manner and must use a buggy. It is foldable, but on a bad day I would be incapable of doing so safely due to my disability. However, I would be willing and capable to leave the bus and wait for the next, without argument or acrimony. If LRT were to prevent me entering a bus on this basis, they would only be proving that their new rule enforcement has little to do with protecting the disabled, as they would be directly discriminating against one of that community.

What everyone needs is a little common sense and etiquette. I make an effort to travel during off-peak times, use a sling when I'm capable of safely doing so, and when not I will vacate the wheelchair space for a wheelchair user. Surely that's not such a bad way of doing things?
61

big man,

edinburgh 05/09/2008 13:11:11
Nicki Lewis # if you think it's any easy question to ask, sorry to say your wrong !, as a driver we do abuse from certain members of the public who refuse to vacate that space and it isn't nice, especialy for me as a driver, the person who is in a wheelchair, am sorry to say but for me NO PRAMS ALlOWED UNLESS THEY CAN BE FOLDED, at the end of the day this issue has went over the top, its the same as bringing you three children on and only paying for one, this has been standard policy on most Scottish Bus Companies, it's not just Lothian, i often wonder if the EEN has an issue with Lothian Buses, am sure there are more interesting stories, this story should have been put to bed ages ago.
62

PaulB,

Edinburgh 05/09/2008 13:17:26
Well done Lothian Buses, for fighting back and showing us how truly selfish some people with prams are. I have seen myself a young mum being tude to a driver who asked her to move to allow a man in a wheelchair on the bus - it was raining, and the old man was left at the stop while this low life woman laughed to her friends. The space was created for wheelchairs, with prams being allowed if the space is empty. Edinburgh is full of these selfish mum with prams and I am glad the bus company have now decided to tell it as it is! Why should drivers have to put up with being abused when they have top concentrate on driving safely? And, no, I do not work for Lothian Buses!
63

Who let the dogs out?,

05/09/2008 13:28:57
Yawn.........

I wish these mothers would GET OVER IT !

have some compassion for disabled people
64

Alternative (High-Octane) Fuel Head,

Edinburgh 05/09/2008 13:29:05
Four words...

"First come, first served".

Parents with buggies are not "forcing wheelchair users off buses" at all. That is just sensationalist nonsense.

#67:

Yes PaulB, you can quite as easily put the sob story the other way round, where the mother and baby are left stranded in the rain. The point was, in this case that the mother with the pram was there FIRST. End of story. If the position had been reversed, the mother with the pram would have been left standing in the rain instead---which could potentially have had far more serious consequences to a baby than to an old man.
65

the dog,

embra 05/09/2008 13:38:10
if this space is for buggies why is it called " a wheel chair space "
i'd ban all unfolded buggies,
yes i'm an ex bus driver and i think its time mr renilson got a grip and stopped giving drivers more hastle, ban the lot and clearly sign this on the vehicles so that there is no dispute between drivers and passangers, as for disabled taking taxis the law states that all public places including transport must be accessible but i dont recall seeing this said about buggies anywhere.
66

Charles Linskaill,

Edinburgh 05/09/2008 13:38:38

~68,

Exactly! and a lot more!

Soo why discriminate all mothers with babies, is this 'Hatred' a new 'phenomena' of Edinburgh?

Why be victimized for the selfish few,?


How would you like it if they put a 'BAN' on, everyone going out after 8pm, because a few 'neds' cause trouble after this time,?

I think not!


67

gorgeousgorgieboy,

Edinburgh 05/09/2008 13:51:11
# 39 We're only half way to 150 posts.

I am still refusing to add to this.
68

hibbywul,

05/09/2008 13:52:33
No mention at all of Dads.

I sometimes push a buggy (foldable) and pay full fare. I wait my turn and once a bus comes which I can get on, I do so. If someone in a wheel chair wants on and I am asked to vacate space or fold buggy, I do so. I even soemtimes offer to vacate the space.

I am not ignorant and do not expect things that are not due to me to just appear. If people are ignorant, don't tar us all with the same brush, some, maybe most parents are polite.

Ask and you shall receive.
69

Charles Linskaill,

Edinburgh 05/09/2008 13:58:36

Mario ~78,

Your funny! Do you never work,?

I can never get on these mad threads through the day, unless normally from, mobile phone, which is 'Pants'!
70

Pen Fold,

Here 05/09/2008 14:03:49
serious question:

is it a legal requirement under the disability act for LRT to have wheelchair spaces available?

if this is the case then any wheelchair user must, by law, be given that space. anyone refusing to give up this space is therefore breaking the law.

stop the bus until offender moves and/or is arrested. i'm sure the other passengers would make them move pretty quickly if the bus is going to sit there for 15 minutes.

if LRT do not uphold the law surely they are leaving themself open to being charged/sued?

what is the difference from prams taking these spaces from people who legitamitely need it, to those who park their car illegally in handicapped spaces when they are not blue badge holders or have fake badges.

there doesn't seem to be too much of an argument when it comes to cars taking up handicapped spaces.

i don't really see the difference.
71

Charles Linskaill,

Edinburgh 05/09/2008 14:09:36

Mario ~80,

Not much hope me writing a "book", my punctuation and grammar is, 'Pants'! :((

I blame the Schools! in 19canteen for this!
72

WJR,

Leith 05/09/2008 14:10:27
Not this story again, a common sentiment I think. What puzzles me is why only 1 wheelchair or 1 buggy is allowed in the space on the 22 - even for the fattest wheelie wabber or Macdonalds muching toddler going there is space for at least any combo of 2.
73

Happy driver,

05/09/2008 14:11:35
Maybe all these Mums should buy People Carriers and 4x4's and drive into town. I'm sure all the same people complaining about them on this thread would be the ones moaning about 4x4 drivers in the "More people should use public transport and stop polluting the world" thread.
Edinburgh has failed to deliver a proper public tarnsport system that is useable by all and until they do these problems will continue to happen.
No I don't think the trams will help
74

PaulB,

Edinburgh 05/09/2008 14:15:12
How many prams and wheelchairs will be allowed on the trams?
75

Pacob75,

05/09/2008 14:19:27
Mair tripe fi Ms. Mollison - lazy, lazy, lazy!


76

Gorgie Finest,

West Lothian 05/09/2008 14:19:35
It's about time Lothian Buses fought back! Lothian Buses stick to your rules. Unfortunately the minorities of mothers have spoilt it for the majority.

On several occasions when I worked in Edinburgh and traveled home from the meadowbank area on the no 15, 26 & 44. I have witnessed several rude mothers, who have refused to fold up their buggies not just for disabled wheel chair users but also the blind.

On one occasion when it was raining heavily a blind lady tried to get on the bus with her guide dog and because of the ignorance of not just one mother but two mothers the bus driver could not allow her on the bus because there were no normal seats left and when the mothers they were asked kindly by the bus driver to fold up their buggies to make room for them they blatantly refused.

So the blind lady was left out in the rain.
It’s not just wheelchair users affected here but also blind people. Total disgrace.
77

Adolf,

not telling 05/09/2008 14:24:21
Take a chill pill you lot.
78

Lynn. S,

Edinburgh 05/09/2008 14:32:15
No10 is there some reason that you feel the need to include what I wrote ( as I am the young mother with the 3 month old baby)ar you implying that I am a child/parent haters the point I was making is that you do not have to have a huge pram/buggy to go out with a baby.
79

Whiskey,

05/09/2008 14:32:31
Many, many, many moons ago, I had a short stint as a bus conductor (in those days buses had both a driver and a conductor to collect fares.
I remember fondly being on the zoo route, a balmy sunny day with lots of Mums taking the kids to the zoo.
Also, during that period in time, fold-up buggies were stored under the stairs leading to the top deck.
I had around four buggies jammed under the stairs with a lady and her two kids struggling with a buggy.
I quickly showed the company spirit and assisted the lady and her kids onto the sidewalk....only to be told..."thank you, I'm trying to get on the bloody bus".
Just a little true humour for all the soreheads posting here!!! Have a good day!!!
80

Gorgie Finest,

05/09/2008 14:35:42
okay 93

Sorry it was actually the no 44 that the blind lady could not get on.
81

Bairny Rubble,

Musselburgh 05/09/2008 14:37:47
Some of the posters on here seem to be keenly following this 'boring' story. Maybe spend a little less time on EEN and more on Jobcentre Plus.

There's always a percentage of society that spoil it, so victory to them again is it?

I think that mums are fair to speak up and their argument has been repeated over and over. The best things for Neil Renilson to do if he doesn't want a campaign of 'dirty bombs' (go on mums, you go thru 10 a day at least) is to hold a face to face with campaigners, without the press and get this sorted out.

I think it's awful for both sides. If you're disabled, waiting patiently for a low-level bus, when sometimes there's only 2 an hour you can get, to find you can't get on, is certainly a real shame and sad that there are inconsiderate people who won't move - prams or no prams. Similarly if you've just had a C-Section for example, not able drive and need to get out to get nappies, groceries and maybe something which isn't 3 sizes too big - then buses are a major necessity, for ALL mums.

Lothian buses need to give their drivers more of a break and let them practice their common senseand judgment. To many smart alecs on here knocking the drivers. Hope you're not in a customer facing role. Many many drivers I have met have been curteous and reasonable.

82

Hot Mama,

Corstorphine 05/09/2008 14:38:57
Does anyone else find it odd that LRT or EEN have yet to provide an example of a wheelchair user who has been left at a bus stop because a parent/carer has refused to vacate the space? Surely if it was as common as they are suggesting there would be plenty of annoyed and inconvenienced wheelchair users wanting to voice their opinions?? I for one think they have plucked these figures from the air to try and excuse what they are doing, Ive been using the bus daily for ten years and NEVER seen it happen and neither have any of my friends so its surely not that common??
83

Hot Mama,

05/09/2008 14:42:14
re: #90 you say there were no "normal" seats so surely it was everyone sitting in the downstairs section of the bus who was inconsiderate if nobody offered the blind lady their seat, why should it be left up to mothers with buggies to get off and stand in the rain when you could have easily gone up stairs?! honestly, talk about pot kettle and black!
84

Bob 2,

05/09/2008 14:42:55
comment 86

as many as you can cram on

given that the tram will hold 250 passengers of those

80 will be seated
170 standing

great until the lady with the tank sized buggy wants off !!!
85

mark jacobs,

edinburgh 05/09/2008 14:54:30
you have to fold buggies when on planes so why not buses,it just lazzieness and should be a health and saftey issue.if a wheel chair or buggie runs over your foot or what ever and causes you injury you have a law suit against them think on .
86

Skip McClendon,

05/09/2008 15:00:21
#100 Hot Mama

Excellent point! The blind lady would not have required the "wheelchair" space at all! Simply one of the seats near the front which are a "priority for elderly or disabled passenengers". Obviously, none of the (presumably able bodied, healthy) adults sitting in THOSE seats offered to give her their set. Oh no, it is the poor mother and baby who are vilified once again.
87

,

05/09/2008 15:03:28
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
88

WJR,

Leith 05/09/2008 15:11:44
#98 I'm your boy Hot Mama (only in the sense of being a wheelie left standing at the bus stop of course).

Loads of times I have had to wait on another bus, on one occasion for the next two because there was a buggy on.

Being careful to make sure I don't have more than 7 fish suppers or pizzas per week I am hardly in the fat wabber category requiring a tank of a chair so could have easily fitted behind the buggy bit I have never seen it as being a big deal as the bus was the 22 and there are more of them than fans who claim to have been at the 7-0 game (that's a football analogy Fat Mama - Hibs you know)
89

Linmal,

Livingston 05/09/2008 15:20:11
#47 Actually, I may live in Livingston but I actually work in Edinburgh and so I am here 5 days out of 7 and sometimed more than that. I use Lothian Buses from time to time and I was born and brought up in Edinburgh - obviously before wheelchair accessible buses were available - but I have not seen that many wheelchair users coming on the buses.

Next!
90

Capitalistic,

edin 05/09/2008 15:25:36
I work with a couple of guys in wheelchairs and go out with them on the bus regularly. This is their only mode of transport and therefore there only way of getting around.
I have not been able to get on a bus once, when someone has refused to fold a wheelchair. This was okay as another bus came shortly afterwards. There are however a coulpe of issues. Firstly, the attitude of people on buses has has changed, and I now fine that people are not as accepting and tolerent as they where before, due I am sure to the friction the pushchair/wheerchair problem has engendered. Secondly, there are between 25/30 seats (approx)for people to choose from on the downstairs of the bus, + standing room. The punter in the wheelchair has no option, it's the wheechair pit or not at all. As a passing thought, you or I could be in an accident tommorow and in a wheelchair, (nobody asks to be disabled) what would you ask for as a bus user..... and (sorry to go on) both of the people I work for have families that pay a load of taxes into the coffers of Westminster and Edinburgh (one of the reasons we pay taxes, is to support those less able than we are) Charles Linskaill, you do not know?
91

Skip McClendon,

05/09/2008 15:26:03
#115

Facts? Facts are meaningless! You can prove anything with facts!!!

92

Gorgie Finest,

West Lothian 05/09/2008 15:29:05
100, 109

Totally agree, but the point is those mothers not only did they block of the wheelchair access they also blocked both front seats with their buggies, that’s taking up a whole 2 seats more to themselves with their kiddies buggies taking up the other space so why should anyone else move seats for these rude individuals who block of the front seats of the bus with their buggies, it wouldn’t be so bad if they stood beside their buggies but they even refused to even fold them up *FAR LESS MOVE OF THEIR SEATS TO MAKE ROOM* for others. They could have easily sat their kids on their knees and freed up two spaces. That’s the point.

Another point it’s unsafe to have any dog blocking of the aisle of the bus, so why should a guide dog. When they should clearly be sitting next to their owners, not lying in the aisle where people have to climb over them to get of the bus. HEALTH & SAFETY to the blind person as well as all other passengers.
93

cannavaro,

Edinburgh 05/09/2008 15:31:49
As a Father of a disabled son in a wheelchair can I tell you.
1 disabled people are entitled to Either a bus pass OR a taxi card not both,
2 There is a small minority of Mothers who refuse to give up the disabled space for a wheelchair when asked,
3 I have no objection to buggies using THE DISABLED space on a bus,but we must have some kind of rule to enforce this law.
To No98 I have been left at a bus stop with my son in his wheelchair when a woman with her buggy refused to vacate the DISABLED space (No 22 bus in stevenson road travelling to the gyle in july this year)
We need some kind of common sense approach to this.I don't mind buggies using this space but when a wheelchair user gets on PLEASE PLEASE vacate the space,
94

Linmal,

Livingston 05/09/2008 15:32:12
#47 - Maybe the reason disabled people don't use the buses so much in Livingston is because they are so much less reliable than they are in Edinburgh and also most disable people out here have motorised wheelchairs with which they can get to the shopping centre quite easily, believe it or not! There are also other ways of getting around, dial a bus, taxis (subsidised for the disabled), etc.

I think, however, you are missing my point entirely - why should someone be forced to get off the bus when they have paid their fare? Would you? I don't think so! All that is needed is a little common courtesy and people to be willing to help their fellow passengers when necessary. It doesn't take much and, if carefully considered, there could be room for both wheelchair and buggy (if the buggy can be folded down). Why do parents insist on buying something which isn't practical? When my children were small I had a buggy for going short distances and on the bus and a pram when the baby was small and I wanted to go a bit further on foot. Common sense really, but that is something which seems to be pitifully lacking nowadays, that and courtesy towards others.
95

Skip McClendon,

05/09/2008 16:00:03
#122

Does such a condescending attitude come naturally, or did you have special training?

Hmmmm....let's see...Condescending, misogynistic, lacking in any people skills...You work in PR for Lothian Buses, don't you?
96

legless,

Edinburgh 05/09/2008 16:01:23
The cooncil are supposed to be providing a bus service capable of catering to all the requirements of the people of Edinburgh and Midlothian so there is no need to use your car, Stuff them, If your not happy with the lack of space, the noisey ipod or the smelly bloke in the shell suit ..... get back in your car
97

Applecrumble,

Balerno 05/09/2008 16:01:38
Is this pram ban fictional?? I get on at least 6 buses per day and travel from corner to corner of Edinburgh and have seen many a pram-with-mother-in-tow getting on the buses while there were no disabled folk on and not being refused. And in those cases where there was a disabled person already on, the parents were not refused a journey, they simply folded their prams and stowed them while taking the child on the knee. And where a disabled person got on after a pram user the parents immediately sprung to their feet to pack away the pram.

If this absolute rubbish is true then everyone involved is grossly overreacting because there seems to be a large percentage of parents and drivers alike who are oblivious to this... lunacy!
98

PaulB,

Edinburgh 05/09/2008 16:06:01
Why do Lothian Buses and other companies not mark the floor of the wheelchair area with yellow stripes, designating it clearly as a space for disabled people, perhaps with a wheelchair logo as well, to make the point. Clear signs on each bus should state the present policy - priority for wheelchair users - perhaps these mums (or dads) with pushchairs might be embarassed into moving when a wheelchair user wants on. Just a thought :)
99

WJR,

Leith 05/09/2008 16:13:49
Like that stops people using the wheelie spaces at supermarkets PaulB? But there is in any case already a very clear sign that says that the space should be vacated if required.
100

rabmataz,

05/09/2008 16:21:17
how many pram or wheelchair spaces will be available on a tram?
101

Linmal,

Livingston 05/09/2008 16:23:35
Right - to each and every one of us - ablebodied and disabled alike - use a little compassion, common sense and courtesy and there will not be a problem. Sadly though, these are things which are lacking in today's society. You would be amazed how much easier life would be if they weren't.

This doesn't just apply to the ablebodied, by the way. I have met some obnoxious disabled people. Some would say that they are entitled to be, I would say no. Life has obviously dealt you a terrible blow but that does not entitle you to be obnoxious.
102

Alternative (High-Octane) Fuel Head,

Edinburgh 05/09/2008 16:24:58
"is it a legal requirement under the disability act for LRT to have wheelchair spaces available?"

Not exactly.

The disability descrimination act means in essence, exactly what it says. You must not descriminate against someone because they are disabled. Note that it does NOT mean that disabled people should take priority over others. That would be completely wrong.

In the case of buses (and trains, and cinemas etc) this in turn requires them to MAKE PROVISION for disabled people to use their facilities IF PRACTICAL. For instance, if you owned a restaurant on the first floor of an old listed building that did not have lifts, you would not be required to make provision for wheelchair users because it would be impractical to do so. However, if you owned a restaurant in somewhere like the Omni centre, you would be compelled to provide disabled toilets etc, as well as to have entrances and exits that were suitable for wheelchairs.

By running buses that can accommodate wheelchairs, it does not automatically give wheelchair users the right to use them if they are already occupied. To insist on this would be to insist on giving wheelchair users preferential treatment, which the act does not make provision for (and neither should it). The act says that the space should be vacated for the wheelchair user if (and only if) it is reasonable and practical to do so. If the space on a crowded bus is already occupied by a pram containing a sleeping baby and the weather outside is inclement, then it is neither reasonable nor practical to demand that the mother (or father) with the pram disembarks to allow the wheelchair user on.

I really fail to see that this is causing so much of a storm. Are people really so daft that they can't see simple logic and have to be told what to do ALL the time?
103

Alternative (High-Octane) Fuel Head,

Edinburgh 05/09/2008 16:29:53
Some people really do not help the case. I remember seeing someone engaged in a heated discussion with someone in the Navy about their wheelchair-bound friend not being able to go for a tour of HMS Ark Royal.

The sailor was making the perfectly valid point that Ark Royal is a warship and as such there are no disabled facilities on board. However, Mrs Numpty couldn't see that fact and continued to rant and rave about it.

Some people are so stupid, it really does beggar belief.
104

Skip McClendon,

05/09/2008 16:32:53
#132, #133

Logical, and well stated.
105

Linmal,

Livingston 05/09/2008 16:34:27
133 I agree - common sense but it goes out of the window when people want what they see as their rights. Then fair mindedness is a thing of the past and it is the old story "I'm alright Jack, stuff you!"
106

,

05/09/2008 16:55:19
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
107

Swissguy,

Edinburgh 05/09/2008 16:56:30
I used to work on the buses, it was amazing how many people wouldn't fold up a buggy to let a disabled person on a bus. You can fold the buggy up and hold a baby in your arms. Do you think disabled people can fold their wheelchair up and carry it on the bus. Some of the most selfish people I have come across in edinburgh. the figures LB are banding about seem about right to me
108

gorgeousgorgieboy,

Edinburgh 05/09/2008 16:59:23
139 and counting.

I refuse to help this reach 150.
109

Bob 2,

05/09/2008 17:07:31
140 - yip couldn't agree more !
110

Bob 2,

05/09/2008 17:09:54
are we there yet
111

Bob 2,

05/09/2008 17:10:02
yip
112

Bob 2,

05/09/2008 17:10:56
148 glad to see you have Common Sense.
113

Bob 2,

05/09/2008 17:11:54
heres one from earlier on

anyway heres todays spin from TIE

A spokesman for TIE said: "TIE's traffic modellers have devised a solution that does not require the expensive removal of the statues on George Street.

"Instead, the size of each traffic island will be reduced and the statue plinths protected.

"Each junction will be signalised and provided with pedestrian crossings.

"This solution is the most cost and time effective, whilst balancing the needs of pedestrians and managing the increased traffic on George Street."

so they wont be moving the statues

or more like they couldn't !
114

joppa jock,

Huntingdon 05/09/2008 17:50:33
Charles Linskaill.. I suggest you remove your trousers and put a mirror under your bottom to see if you can find a solitary brain cell, but I doubt you will.
Your pathetic hatred of the disabled is disgusting and your pathetic attempt at wit puts you on a par with the other knuckle trailing morons that sadly inhabit the earth. Try growing up and act like a human being.
115

Scotish Exile,

05/09/2008 18:09:05
LRT are right, most of these mothers are selfish, keep them their sprogs and their prams off the buses!
116

Charles Linskaill,

Edinburgh 05/09/2008 18:11:52

joppa jock ~153,

The only "moron" round here is the ones that cant read, I suggest you take lessons.

NO-WHERE in any post, did I suggest a hatred towards the disabled community.
117

Skip McClendon,

05/09/2008 18:23:14
#146 blame it on the buggy

"LB are to be commended for their policy of providing access for wheelchair users."

Erm, I hate to rain on your Lothian Buses love parade, but...

Providing access for the disabled as not some wonderful, progressive LB policy. It's the LAW. One that, up till now, they have failed to comply with.

Hence all this smoke and mirrors with blaming parents with buggies. "It's no our fault that our buses arnie accessible, guv....it's thae damned single mothers again"...

This entire debate has been manufactured to deflect from the real issue - that Lothian Buses has too many vehicles on the road which are unsuitable for use by those with disabilities.
118

joppa jock,

Huntingdon 05/09/2008 19:49:00
155 Charles Linskaill.I stand by my comments. Anybody who posts stupid comments about disabled people running around in cars paid for by their benefits and who makes totally stupid and unfounded atatements bout getting free cars every three years should try and get at least some of their facts right before spouting off such vitriolic rubbish. Try living in a wheelchair for a week and you might learn something about life.
119

Peperami Sausage,

Livingston 05/09/2008 19:49:18
#98 They do complain. Although not as much as mother's. Funny that. Having been pulled in buy management for customer complaints r.e. your example, I have first hand experience what it's like trying to defend yourself when you know you've done the 'right thing' only to be treated worse than Gary Glitter!
Give us a break. You have no idea what a shower of useless backward incompetent managers we have to endure, that coupled with all the average numpties that give us grief on a daily basis.
120

Charles Linskaill,

Edinburgh 05/09/2008 20:30:23

One disability benefit, Edinburgh City Council.

http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/DisabledPeople/MotoringAndTransport/Yourvehicleandlicence/DG_10028000

Maybe mothers with small babies should be entitled to the same.

Now thats the 'problem' solved!
121

The Geniune Mario Antionette,

05/09/2008 20:48:51
Charge the mothers £5 per pram for the extra storage space they take up
122

The Geniune Mario Antionette,

05/09/2008 20:50:01
No children under the age of 3 yrs should be allowed on buses, unless they are accompanied by both grandparents.
123

marinehibby,

Edinburgh 05/09/2008 21:02:54
Years & years ago, we never had wheelchair/pram spaces on any bus. Now LB are coverting their stock to accomodate both. and quite right too. the problem is not who deserves the space more but how many spaces are availible for use, at the present time, only one on each bus, that is why Edinburgh is building a tram syatem to provide larger vehicles to accomodate ALL sections of society.
124

asfa,

edinburgh 05/09/2008 21:25:41
why can't these mums just get a buggy that folds? or walk? how many mums regularly NEED to use the bus anyway? I don't see what the big deal is.

I have 2 under 2 and have never had any problem folding my buggy or carrying one or the other of them. But I do avoid the buses as much as possible anyway so only go on them when we truly need to get somewhere and not just go for a jaunt into town.
125

I love to eat Sellotape,

05/09/2008 21:46:55
It has always been my dream to post the 164th comment on an Evening News story.
126

Diana,

Edinburgh 05/09/2008 22:01:34
I don't see what the problem is - it's only the un-foldable prams that are being banned. You can get a cheap folding buggy for £20 these days - why not have something like that for trips on the bus?

I never would have dared to take something on board the bus that didn't fold up, because I know I'd have had to wait for a few buses before there was one with a free wheelchair space.

My only gripe is that a lot of times, the bus driver would just drive off before I was settled with the folder packed away and sat down with baby on my lap. I nearly fell over at least once while holding the baby.

Perhaps if the bus driver, or another passenger, could HELP the mother then more parents would be willing to vacate the space.

As for getting off the bus - no way. If the mother has paid her fare, why should she get off the bus?
127

Dr DoGood,

edinburgh 05/09/2008 22:07:37
GOT THE ANSWER
Lets charge all the buggies/prams a surcharge of say 50p when they board a bus gaurnteeing that if a wheelchair tries to bord they do not have to vaccate space and all the money raised goes to Disability Scotland we will soon see how quick they fold the buggies then
128

Estella,

Porty 05/09/2008 22:31:27
It would be interesting to know how many wheel chair users there are in Edin who use the bus compared to the number of people who use buggies and use the bus. It seems to me that common sense and manners have gone out the window and this has got completely out of hand. In all the years I took my buggy on the bus I only ever had one probelm and that was a ned from Magdalene f-ing and blinding at me because we were in the space before her and she had to fold her buggy down. Pleasant it was not. I never encountered a wheel chair user even on some of the busiest routes.
129

Julian.,

edinburgh 05/09/2008 23:11:39
According to Lothian Buses there are 3000 wheelchair users who regularly use buses.
130

jarmon,

06/09/2008 09:05:21
with the attitude some of the pram mothers have,what will their babies grow up to be like? They'll probably grow up to push wheelchair bound people in front of the buses,instead of helping them get on the bus.
131

LaurenM,

edinburgh 06/09/2008 11:38:06
what is Lothian buses stance on disabled children in buggies? do they have to get off to make space for wheelchairs?
My daughter has chronic lung disease and needs an oxygen cylinder which i keep under her buggy. It is really heavy and if i am on my own i cannot take her out of the buggy (she cannot walk yet)and her cylinder and fold up the buggy. Surely she has as much right to the "wheelchair space" as a wheelchair user.
132

Dr DoGood,

edinburgh 06/09/2008 13:13:01
LaurenM
it was someone in your situation that started this debate off in the first place,but just let me say from a drivers point if you were asked to vacate the space for a wheelchair and then explained your own situation then under no circumstances would you or should you be asked to move,despite what the majority of commentors on this site seem to think we drivers are human and will respond to your needs when asked,however we will not be bullied into allowing buggies and prams to use the space by abusive morons who could not care about anyone else,there are a lot of decent buggy pushers out there I had one on board the other day and when a young girl with a twin buggy wanted to board HE (note male buggy pusher) folded his down to allow her to board,this is all LB are asking people to do when a wheelchair user wants to board, but again in your case NO YOU DO NOT HAVE TO LEAVE/OR FOLD and I would gladly argue with my bosses for you
133

snoopy,

Musselburgh 06/09/2008 14:08:28
I'm with Lothian Buses on this one. I remember once a couple of years back, I was on the bus going to work and two buggies got on the bus at the same stop. When the driver asked the second mother to fold her buggy she didn't and instead he got a mouthful of abuse.

The driver turned off the engine and refused to move until one of the buggies was folded, but this was still refused. Now unfortunately I don't know how this arguement finished because like I say I was on my way to work and with the bus not moving I had to get off the bus and board a number 5 to catch a connection. When I unboarded the bus though it was a stalemate between the mothers and the driver with neither budging, though I really hope the driver didn't give in!
134

Brian the Barbarian.,

top deck 06/09/2008 19:29:21
When ordered to fold my unfoldable buggy I DECIDED ON A COMPROMISE AND STAMPED ON IT time and time again until the bl**dy thing was flat. i then folded it, over and over again until it was a small cube a few inches square.

I have since discovered that by crushing my small baby into a tin pail filled with fish paste and suspending the pail from the ceiling of the bus that baby travels in a safe environment the only problem being very tall wheelchair users who congregate in gangs terrorizing us young mums and deliberatly nutting babys pail as a rite of passage.
As a single mum who enjoys a pipe during pregnancy the smoking ban on the bus has hit me very hard and I only got pregnant to leap to the front of the housing list in front of a bunch of Polish fruit pickers.
Everything is banned on the bus these days.If they had all these rules when I was a mere slip of a girl I would never have got up the duff on the number 42 in the first place.
135

JOLLY GIANT,

EDINBURGH 14/09/2008 18:03:40
I am with Lothian buses on this one.What did mothers do with the prams on the pre 51 plate buses before they were wheelchair converted?
Years ago mothers used to push the prams home dare I say walking! What has changed today or is it just the case of ME ME ME as usual!
Do all the new wheelchair frendly buses pay is there lots of wheelchair users or the dreded prams at the bus stop at any one time?

136

Dazzadini,

20/09/2008 17:53:50
What do the mothers want the disabled people to do, get of the wheelchair and fold that up. Don't think so ... Just fold your pushchairs up and make space for people that need it
137

Miss Scotland 1906,

24/09/2008 12:49:46
Just ban all prams and kids.
138

PramUser,

Edinburgh 15/01/2009 10:34:23
There's a certain type of person who wouldn't collapse their pram for a wheelchair user and I'm not one of them.
As for a pram ban.....so if I want to get from Leith to the Gyle I'm lazy if I don't walk? What intolerant imbecile came up with that idea?
The answer is simple - If you get on the bus with a pram and a wheelchair needs on then collapse your pram or vacate the bus.
139

midlothian chick,

04/11/2009 13:19:49
i used to have a hard time getting on a bus with my eldest when she was a tiny baby.i lived in the sticks n didnt drive so if i needed to go to town itd take 2 hrs waiting on the bus to turn up(no 37)and when one was free i could get on.i didnt have anyone to hold the baby to enable me to fold the buggy and the drivers didnt offer to hold her for me.but now they ket on how many they like,the drivers disgression...i.e.if he thinks the mothers hot he lets them away with it but as for wheelchairs..id have got of and ket the wheelchair on as long as the driver radioed control saying that the next bus due to arrive at certain bus stop would allow me on since i vacated the space and was alone....wheelchairs need the space..but dont foget tho..they get cheap taxis with the handicabs..my friend used them for her wheelchair and it was like 1.50
140

midlothian chick,

04/11/2009 13:22:48
jolly giant obv doesnt have kids..nobody would want to he/she sounds a right idiot self obssesed self opinionated ignoramous..we cant walk 15 miles to go into town,why should ppl who have babies be allowed into town..the business needs shoppers due to the state of edinburgh..they need all the passers by they can get
141

midlothian chick,

04/11/2009 13:23:19
i meant shouldnt.....

 

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